Les Talk with Lester and Leslie

Just two besties on a pod bringing their existential talks to the internet. This cast is a conversational deep dive into the paralleling lives and the nuanced experiences of Lester Jay, an accomplished vocal artist and “aspiring adult” and Leslie SR Beebe, actress and aspiring comedian. Both Black, queer and here hoping to become your new favorite uncle and auntie. But since these conversations are strictly reflections, realizations of personal growth and life lessons, it is just that, THIER experiences… maybe inspire and give some good takeaways, but not meant to provide advice or solutions for anyone else. So we not claiming y’all.

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Les Talk with Lester and Leslie

Les Talk: Assimilation pt. 2

April 26, 2026 • Lester Jay & Leslie SR Beebe • Season 1 • Episode 19

0:00 | 55:01

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On this special 2 part episode, the hosts reflect on their past understanding of why their parents raised them under the blanket of cultural and systemic assimilation. Did assimilation serve them or did they realize it’s just another instance where their parents did the best they could with what they knew thus preparing for another journey of unlearning? Follow Unc and Auntie as they discuss and compare how assimilation has affected them and the lessons that brought them to their current understanding on life today.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Let's talk. We wanna hear from Lester and Leslie. Let's talk. We're on a journey. Come along with me. Let's talk. We're bringing you perspective. Let's talk. Let's talk. Let's talk with Lesnar and Leslie.

SPEAKER_03 0:34

So you were on the canvas track.

SPEAKER_06 0:36

Yeah, where it got to the point where it was just like I started to feel like the farther away I got from the culture, that meant the better I was. Like with the the prison sag and like everything. You know what I'm saying? Like, and that was so harmless. Yeah, like anything, anything that represented like the negative of black culture.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:03

And that's what I as I that is what I uh attributed black culture to be. Why do I sound like this? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

So uh doesn't sound weird.

SPEAKER_06 1:17

Yeah. Like, anyway, I I'm back.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:26

Yeah. So yeah, I started to become a self-hating black, I guess. But I genuinely but the here here was the issue though. Like I genuinely like the music that I was allowed to listen to.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

Right, because you've been exposed to it. And can I add more context to when you say self-hating black? That because this just hit my spirit just now because I was joking with a friend of mine when they were talking about some of their, and I'm not gonna call their name because I think they listened to the podcast. Hey friend, I'm not gonna call your name out, but hopefully we'll be able to talk for season two. So he was one of my queer black friends. He had posted someone who's cute. He has dated, married, white, divorced white guy, and he's m he's a mixed race himself, but m mainly black. And he had posted something uh to which he jokes about this all the time about like posting all these hot white guys, and sometimes when he posts black guys or who is the tone is feels more sexual than like, oh, I want to create a relationship or something that's more like you do with the other. So I I joked and and I said, Oh God, there's that self-hating stuff. Now, this is what I want to add for context for that definition, because it just hit my spirit now. I think the reason why some people don't I'm not talking about my friend or you, but just you when you see some of these interviews with like some of these black mega folks and stuff, and you tell them, oh, you're self-hating, they will sit back and tell you with a very clean smile and no regard. I don't hate myself. Right? Here's the thing it's not that you hate yourself, is that there are aspects of our culture that you don't associate with yourself, is detached from you. So detached. So, like when you when they talk about the the education to prison pipeline, oh that's not me. I'm at the private school. What are you talking about? There is no pipeline that goes from my private school to that jail cell. That has nothing to do with me. Yes. You know? So it's it's scenarios like that. Oh, they uh the the the cops shot down. Well, was he complying? I mean, does he talk? How how was he talking? I remember right now the hot topic in politics is the ID thing that the administration is doing right now, right? So they've got all these black folks. The narrative is that the reason why they're implementing this is because they want to for vote of suppression. And some one of the narratives is that this is going to, as everything does, affect minorities the most. They're trying to so the narrative is, oh, they're trying to keep minorities from voting. So now you've got a lot of these black MAGA folks that's like, they're not preventing me from voting. I saw this one girl say, with a terrible weave in her head, as they always say in their head.

SPEAKER_06 4:31

Make up bad weaves like your it's like your life is on your face.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

Anyways.

SPEAKER_06 4:37

Trying to be like that Mary-Lago thing.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

See, when you try to when you see an image that is actually not uh meant for you and you're trying to replicate it, you're always gonna look you're always going to look a mess. Anyways.

SPEAKER_06 4:51

And and that happened to me too. Because I look at these old photos of me.

SPEAKER_03 4:55

We're going back into the trauma.

SPEAKER_06 4:57

Yeah. Because I'm like, that could have been me. I could have been on there with the bad wig.

SPEAKER_03 5:04

One of the things I'm glad we have is perspective in like those black alt communities. So we see that no, this this isn't just us, the folks of like you or myself, to certain degrees assimilating uh to something that isn't meant for us. This is just what we have we vibe now with. This is not spirit, and all of us are not the same. But anyways, going back to what was that talking about, Jesus?

SPEAKER_04 5:28

Self-hating black.

SPEAKER_03 5:28

Self-hating blacks. It's not that they hate themselves, and at least that's not how they see it. How they see it is these things that you associate with the black culture, I don't associate with in my black experience. So I I I'm not I I could never be assaulted by a cop because I show up correctly.

SPEAKER_04 5:51

Yep. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

That's you guys because you guys are uneducated. That's what she said on her interview. She was saying, oh, well, the how is this uh suppressing minorities from voting? Because if you're educated, you know how to get your ID. Something to that effect, where she said, like, if you're educated, you know how to uh t obtain your your birth certificate or your a real ID or whatever it is that they're requiring for you to vote.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

Right.

SPEAKER_03 6:17

So this is not suppression to minorities b because you're just not educated. That burned me up seeing that, but they all of them speak crazy like that.

SPEAKER_06 6:30

Yeah, and I was talking like that too. I was talking exactly like that.

SPEAKER_03 6:34

The Candace track.

SPEAKER_06 6:35

Yep. Where I was just repeating that type of rhetoric, and and I was bec because of the fact that I was not raised like that, my family was qualified as to be upper middle class, actually.

SPEAKER_03 6:48

Yeah, you were on hillside. You were on the other side of the track. Quite literally from me.

SPEAKER_06 6:58

Not to say I was on the bad side, but hear her from my freaking.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

She's on the north side. No.

SPEAKER_06 7:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:08

Technically, I was on the north side from you, but anyways.

SPEAKER_06 7:11

Well, I mean different directions, but I was on that side.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

Right, right.

SPEAKER_06 7:16

Um so yeah, I that like speaking from a part, like I didn't realize that where I was in life afforded me the privilege of having the things that I had. I'm saying we had cable.

SPEAKER_03 7:31

You mentioned that too. Let me ask you, because I feel like we've been in this space where we've recognized a lot of the pain points and the dramas. What was the pivot? What made you turn? And be honest when you think about it, because I feel like we've talked about this before. And you have to remember, you have to remember when we go here, right? Our Christian faith tells us that God can use anybody. It is so it is so it is so many stories where burning bushes are talking, coat hangers, all this stuff, like it does not matter. If God is trying to get a message to you, the vessel is unimportant. What's important is the message, and that it I'm dead and serious because if you want to talk about it, like remember, like my coming out story that came through someone who I'm not with anymore, but I've learned so much in that relationship about myself, and I will never deny that when it comes to my past relationship with my ex. Like, I'm finally at a point now where I can acknowledge that as a value add to my life, even though you and I did not work out. I can see why God had you in my life during that time.

SPEAKER_05 8:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:50

I needed to be free, and you were the vessel that God chose to use to find help me find my freedom. So, with that said, No. What made what and or who made you wait? And you don't have to say a name, you know.

SPEAKER_06 9:07

No, I'm not going to.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

Period. I'm not going to. I know who you're talking about. I know you know you're fucking out.

SPEAKER_06 9:14

But um, so obviously, I guess, I guess this was just maybe around the pandemic. We'll go back to 2020.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 9:27

And like as far as my political values, I guess I might have been center right simply because of the fact that like I I come I came from privilege. But I guess I was I was kind of learning about how there was human rights and to actually be concerned about human rights over or profit or people over profit. And that's when and then like later on, the more bills I started to pay.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

That'll humble you real quick.

SPEAKER_06 10:00

There it is. Yeah. Especially when it came down to like everything, like insurance and rates and and and how bank loans work and how that's volatile, because there's nothing related to property taxes. Well, this came a little later. That came a little later. But the way that my money was being allocated, like obviously I had to pay more attention. I was very aware of like that. I or I very I felt very proud, and I still do taking my civic duty as a citizen to pick and choose my employees on who I want to manage my money collectively for the betterment of the community infrastructure.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

Period.

SPEAKER_06 10:40

That is what a politician should be someone who helps to do things for the community because they are public servants anyway. So I felt really, really passionate about that. And small elections mattered to me anyway from there, but they weren't, it wasn't as priority, you know what I'm saying? But the more I started to pay attention to things like how it was messing with my money, that's when my okay, I'm figuring that it's y'all's fault.

SPEAKER_03 11:07

Right. So I remember you used to you used to be green. What was that? Libertarian. Libertarian. Less government. And I remember I I started looking into what libertarian was because of you because I never heard of that part.

SPEAKER_06 11:21

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 11:22

I only knew I only knew right blue or red.

SPEAKER_06 11:25

So yeah, yeah. So like my thing was like self-sufficiency, less government. And then the person who I was seeing at the time kind of opened my eyes to what I was really saying.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

Right. You know, the message from God. Fuck the vessel.

SPEAKER_06 11:41

I I did that too. But like Yeah. So, you know, different version of me. Different version of me.

SPEAKER_03 11:51

So anyway, um Tell the truth, shame the devil. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_06 11:54

Shame on me.

SPEAKER_03 11:58

Well, you know what that term as an adult, what I think that term of phrase means is not shame the devil, but put shame on the shame. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 12:06

Turn it around and own that shit. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 12:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 12:10

I mean, because obviously it helped platform me to where I am now. And I am grateful for that because even throughout the horribleness of dealt with, you know, the bad parts, there was a lot of good parts and there was a lot of learning. And I'm glad I chose to learn these lessons. I'm glad I chose to get in that mindset as to how to do things better instead of dwelling on it and getting angry. Because I still get angry every now and then. Like I really do. And healing takes time.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

That's right.

SPEAKER_06 12:43

And sometimes when things trigger me, I'll start to go down some rabbit holes. Like my let it go. I was about to go there.

SPEAKER_03 12:54

I saw you grab and make a fist. And then you just said, I don't know if that's something you learned from like a thing from a professional therapist or something. But I saw that fish.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

Grabbing that thought.

SPEAKER_03 13:07

And then releasing it back into the neck.

unknown 13:12

You saw that.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

Yes, I saw my peripherals. I'm like, yes.

SPEAKER_06 13:18

That's how you heal.

SPEAKER_03 13:19

Use your tools. Use your tools.

SPEAKER_06 13:21

Yes. Blocking myself from the poison because we're we're we're cooking and like whatever. But anyway, so I I I took I decided to actually listen to what the situation was trying to teach me in that moment. And some of the things that it taught me was like this guy who I was with actually showed me what it meant politically, as far as like what I what I aligned myself with. Right. And then he introduced me to other people, and then he showed me perspective on the people who I thought that were good journalists who actually were not journalists. Come on. Like I was more qualified to be a journalist than these people are.

SPEAKER_03 14:06

And these were centrists or right centrists.

SPEAKER_06 14:09

Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. So or any kind of those influencers, whatever, but these people who he put me in, he he exposed me to by sending me links and stuff, and like showing me different articles on legislature and the importance of unions and and all that. Like I started I started to understand and realize. I'm like, wow, this is very important. And all of these profit-driven programs are really destroying society because the the go the goal is not to uphold the community or to sustain the community, it's to sustain profit.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Right.

SPEAKER_06 14:53

So it's doing what exactly it's supposed to do, but it's not sustainable. It's coming at the cost of human rights. It's coming at the cost of human rights. And knowing how other countries survive, and you know what I'm saying? How they have universal health care, how they have programs in place where people don't have to starve, where it's not so much of a class divide where people you can make your money, you can have your life, but infrastructure is taken care of where people don't have to suffer.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Right.

SPEAKER_06 15:24

They have their basic needs met. If it's something that everybody needs to survive, then they have it.

SPEAKER_03 15:28

Right.

SPEAKER_06 15:29

Even when it comes down to clean air, clean freaking air.

SPEAKER_03 15:33

You better you over there preaching.

SPEAKER_06 15:35

Yeah, so he sent he sent me down like all like just a couple of things, and like what happened with me is I got curious and I started to dig. I asked some questions. I got analytical again. Because the whole goal of the way things are going right now and the dismantlement of and how education and the department of education is just totally just being destroyed right now, is to keep you from asking questions and to keep you from being analytical about things. Because the less that you are aware of, the more that you can be taken advantage of. That's right. And that was a that was actually a survival skill that my mom gave me too is to just dig a little deeper. She told me not to ask her many, you know what I'm saying? Don't if it's a question, I can go find out myself.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:25

You know? Yeah. Maybe it made me a little hyper-independent, but which is a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 16:30

I mean, we'll sometimes we'll just a survival tactic that at least in my experience and that sounds like from your experience has helped us survive.

SPEAKER_06 16:39

Well, yeah, it helped me get to the point where like I'm able to be resourceful and I know how to do research and ask questions and dig a little deeper. And if something doesn't make sense, then I can fact check up against like another question I had. Like that is how you learn things. And that's how it's a good survival skill to have. Because you can't get rolled over if you know the rules.

SPEAKER_03 17:08

Right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 17:10

You have to read the fine print and then keep on making it finer and finer and like more complicated. But you know what? If you want to be ahead of something, you gotta learn how the game is being played.

SPEAKER_03 17:20

You gotta stay in the game.

SPEAKER_06 17:21

Yeah, it's it's really annoying, but that is what we're doing right now. You know, so I man, once again, I deviated it again. Did I think we get again? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:31

Yeah, you're you're moving into another kind of one of the last points, which is how it's affecting you now moving forward, what was learned, what was unlearned.

SPEAKER_06 17:41

Yeah. So a lot of the unlearning I did was a lot less hating. Because he reinvigorated my curious analytical mind again, I started to try to get more familiar with black culture.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 18:06

Especially because I had the time because I wasn't going anywhere. We were all what's it called? Locked in place or whatever. Quarantined. Yeah, we were quarantined. And so I started to go back to the books that I had like in college. So I did take a black studies course.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_06 18:24

Yeah, I did. And I think in college, that's when I wanted to get back into cultural roots then too.

SPEAKER_03 18:30

Yeah. But that was.

SPEAKER_06 18:33

Yeah, there was there was that.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

You you because those are courses that you get the autonomy to choose.

SPEAKER_06 18:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 18:38

And you could have chosen anything else.

SPEAKER_06 18:41

Yeah, I really could. I really could.

SPEAKER_03 18:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:44

And I really liked that class too, because it it showed like a broad spectrum of like civil rights activists and what they were proposing. I'm like, why doesn't everybody else want this? But like and and it made me realize that a lot of the talk about these abolitionists, especially Malcolm X, that is my favorite, favorite point of reference.

SPEAKER_03 19:07

You've mentioned him a few times.

SPEAKER_06 19:09

I I man, that guy, oh gosh. I I love like I don't know, like obviously I don't like to put other human beings on pedestals that or whatever. But he's nobody's personal. Right. Nobody is everybody is a human being and nobody's better than any other being who's a human being. So period. Right. So I he he's he he's really inspirational to me. And he inspires me to have a heart that is for human rights and to see good in people because he had prejudices too. Right. And there was a lot of speeches that he had before he went over to Mecca and he saw all these different kinds, all Muslims, all kinds of people like that over there. And it kind of broadened his mind to say, like, oh, this is a social construct. It's not because white people are evil, it's because that these are evil people over here.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Right.

SPEAKER_06 20:03

Like this is a problem over in the United States that we are dealing with. And when you kind of centralize that behavior to not all groups, to not all of the entire group of people, but to a group of people that's centralized in this behavior over here.

SPEAKER_03 20:19

That's right.

SPEAKER_06 20:20

Things make more sense. Hate makes a lot less sense.

SPEAKER_03 20:25

You want to know how that how you just dropped a Bible verse just now? We need to start doing sound effects. Um adding sound effects. I'm gonna have to ask our editor if he knows how to do sound effects. Anyways, right? I mean, add it to the bill. Anyways, uh what you mentioned about what you mentioned about the system and understanding that this is bigger than just uh as necessary a race. If you understand that as a as a point of critical thinking, then it would make sense to when you when I saw a white guy explain what I just mentioned, the white guy was the guy explaining how this new voting change is going to affect minorities, and then you have a chocolate black girl that's defending the very thing that's meant to oppress her voice, but she doesn't recognize it, then that would make sense because you will have a lot of folks that be like, oh well, a black person is saying that this isn't going to affect minorities, so that must be the truth. No, it's the systems behind it. When you see the systems and not people, then you realize that this could be anybody on either side of this game that's saying that you can't get hung up on the skin color of who's saying a message because tokens can be found anywhere and tokens get spent. Anyways, I've d I just want to offer that as a to support that idea.

SPEAKER_06 22:00

Yes. Yes. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 22:03

Because that was crazy. It was a white guy that was defending the minor that the the thing. And it was a a girl that was dark skinned, terrible hair that's defending it.

SPEAKER_06 22:14

I'm just like, bizarro times. Like it is the world. It's the system though. Yes, it is. It is. And it's not about like racism is so lame. Like, can we stop racism, please? Because it is really stupid. It is small potatoes. It is a fo it is taking our focus away from what we really need to do.

SPEAKER_03 22:31

Well, it's an effect of a bigger, right? We we thought that was the root. It's the it's a leaf. It's a whole lot on a on a capitalist tree or whatever, you know. Yeah. Like the it's not a root like we thought it would. It's it's close now. It's a big branch.

SPEAKER_06 22:45

It's it's kind of like a a vi a bacteria at this point that is or yeah, it's a fleshing bacteria. But it's like a lazy form of hate, escapegoating.

SPEAKER_03 23:02

Well, I'm not gonna say because the thing is, this what these systems allow for is for those who are genuinely racist, those who hate the fact that we had a black president and want to make sure. You know what I'm saying? Or if they see a black person or Latin person doing well just for the sake of their cause, like it the system feeds those kind of people as well as a what they call it, as a after-effect or causality or cause right, right. Is even though that's not the main purpose, it helps to serve that demographic anyway.

SPEAKER_06 23:37

Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, of course, because if you can move the goalpost and you're capable of doing that, why wouldn't you help out?

SPEAKER_03 23:46

It's kind of like what they said with the Hitler time and stuff, like as long as you make these people feel like they are better than whether they all go for whatever you whatever system you put in front of them, if it benefits them even on an aesthetic level and not necessarily anything else, and it actually s serves to hurt them at the is for some of those demographic people because of their racism, they will go for it.

SPEAKER_06 24:10

You know what my thing was? It just came to me. It was like, why wouldn't you want to be on a winning team?

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:18

Right. Even though, like I said, you're actually losing at the back end. You have a farm and now you can't afford to keep it open. You, you know, you're on Medicaid, and now your prescription drugs are astronomical and you have to and you're you're eating less now because they took money away from SNAP. Like you you lose at the end, but at least you're able to say that Obama was an unfit president.

SPEAKER_05 24:44

Yeah. I there's there's so yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:46

Yep. I I so going going down, going, going down there of like realizing, you know, how how wrong and how well not like yeah, I was wrong and how tone-deaf I was to human rights and taking the my dad's advice as far as like playing the game like it was a little less human what he was talking about, but like knowing that he worked with people who were black and disabled and trying to get them on a way so that they can survive and live independent lives. So there was a level of kindness that I missed because I was so deep into the self-hating black thing. Like, oh well, all you gotta because I had everything I needed. Separatism. I didn't have to suffer. I had everything I needed. My parents made sure that I had everything I needed. Right. You know what I'm saying? Our house had two bathrooms.

SPEAKER_03 25:45

My God. We had two bathrooms too.

SPEAKER_06 25:49

Yeah, and everywhere I lived, had two bathrooms.

SPEAKER_03 25:51

My second one was in the bat was in the basement, but that's what I'm saying, though.

SPEAKER_06 25:56

Like we we were fine, we didn't have like to worry about not being able to eat. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 26:06

You had the privilege of no worries.

SPEAKER_06 26:08

Outside and ride our bikes.

SPEAKER_03 26:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:12

They made sure that we were in a neighborhood that was just safe. Yeah. But the thing is that we equate I, in my small little brain, I equated safe as not being around these black folks over here on the south side. Right. Because that's where the west from or the west side. Oh my god. But I was still going down there though. My mom was taking me down there. Yes, yes, but I was sheltered because I wasn't allowed to don't touch them, don't talk to them. Right. You stay, just don't talk to him, just stay over here, stay close to me, okay, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

Right.

SPEAKER_06 26:44

And so like it was me associating these people with negativity and nev like bad behavior. I'm like, oh, I'm thinking it as a behavior, you know? And I just ended up with a lot of white friends and dating a lot of white people and and quote unquote assimilating to some white cultural aspects like some of the music. I love that music though.

SPEAKER_03 27:10

And the thing, and that's why I'm saying, like you can't help that. You know what I'm saying? I there isn't a genre of music that I don't like like that I'm ashamed of being associated with. But I am sure there are some gospel songs that I love that may have some messagings that I don't currently subscribe to.

SPEAKER_05 27:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:35

But because it's a beautiful song that I was raised in, you know what I'm saying? It's it's kind of like that. It's like, R. Kelly, there's a lot of folks who man, I hate the. Now, I the idea cleanse him out, right? Yeah. But I'm just using him as an example. There are some folks that I know that's like I grew up on this music, and it's hard for me to s to separate from it.

SPEAKER_06 28:01

Hate the music, not the art, or hate the artist, not the music. I'm just like, what how?

SPEAKER_03 28:06

I can't fight with that stuff. I mean, I I'll say I could say for me that I grew up with the music too, and I was able to let it go. But that's that's totally different, though. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to associate your taste in in things that are that would be considered in the black alt community, actually, now that's another thing. Yeah. That's why I said like some of the stuff that you like, I feel like I I've told you this before. I feel like you would have naturally drawn to it anyway.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 28:39

Similation or not, just because we're not a monolith, so well, that's the type of person that I I am, and if I was, I'm always going in a different direction. That's why they're I'm looking for different things. I like odd shit.

SPEAKER_03 28:54

I like things that aren't popular or stereotypical, just in general, like life stereotypes. We don't watch the Kardashians, you watch that one Netflix show.

SPEAKER_06 29:06

I kind of watched them though.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

Oh, you did. I I did. Oh.

SPEAKER_06 29:10

Because I thought they were really pretty.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_06 29:14

I know, but I okay, bad example. Anyway, uh but you know, like think things as far as like pop music. Even though I did love Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera was funny.

SPEAKER_03 29:30

Me too. I like Jessica Simpson too. Yeah. Her early stuff. Early Jessica. Like Mary J Mary to 98 degrees Nick Lachey, Jessica Simpson. That's the the shit I liked. After she divorced him, it was they went to the body.

SPEAKER_06 29:44

Oh, just like the sad and unhappily wed.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

No, it just it it's got to be kind of. Then they said that when she was doing pop music, it felt fake. Because now she's, you know, country. That's where a lot of those girls are at now. Some of those pop girls I used to like back in the day, like Brooke Hogan and whatever they went, country, Miley Cyrus. She does her country thing too. So, but anyways. Back in the back in the early 2000s, there was this whole hip started by Britney and them, this whole pop craze that involved infusing urban sounds into the music.

SPEAKER_06 30:26

Oh, yeah, country grammar. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

Country grammar with Nelly is a is a good example. But like they were using, because remember, uh I'm a music, I love knowing like the they were using the the sound came from, I believe, Germany with Brittany Spears, but in terms of how it was constructed, they were using and doing a lot of hip-hop and RB infused into pop. Oh, yeah. Right? Like you had hip-hop artists featured on all these white girly pop songs. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_06 30:57

Yes. Or yes. So that was that entry. Or there was a feature of like a a bar or something from a pop song in Rap Tune.

SPEAKER_03 31:07

Or so I'm actually trying to say right, yeah. They pulling from the black culture to make the pop sound pop. That that was early 2000s.

SPEAKER_06 31:16

Yeah, I like I like those collaborations. Me too. That was that was fun. It was fun, those cross cross genre music. But I was looking for something different, and like I liked raging out, and I like the color black, and I liked the spikes and the like the chicken weird clothes.

SPEAKER_03 31:37

And we found out that there is an alt there is a community for that. It's called the Black Alt Community.

SPEAKER_06 31:42

Yeah, and I'm a I love you. Yes. So teach the children. And there's people who are my age who are like that too. I was just like, oh my God, where were you 20 years ago?

SPEAKER_03 31:56

In Pennsylvania while you were in Illinois or wherever.

SPEAKER_06 31:59

Wherever I was. Because I barely, because whenever I saw someone else who was black who dressed like me, I was like, wow.

SPEAKER_03 32:09

I bet most of them in our age group all have kind of the same. This is one reason why I'm doing this podcast a lot. That's one of the reasons why I feel like because this perspective is one I don't think I've heard a lot, but I feel like if we surveyed and found out where a lot of those alt guys, I bet a lot of them grew up in the suburbs too, if they ever surveyed the black alt community.

SPEAKER_06 32:34

I wonder it I I'm gonna throw this out in the Facebook. That's interesting. That's interesting. Like were you raised in the suburbs? I'm sure like people who probably had um who weren't raised in the suburbs, who were raised in the city, who were alt, probably got picked on a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:55

Yeah. It's only the name alternative.

SPEAKER_06 32:57

I know that um I I was looked at a lot. I was called fake. I was called probably a pick me, but not in that terminology.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

Sure.

SPEAKER_06 33:08

Like a s like was I called a sellout? I don't know. Maybe.

SPEAKER_03 33:13

I kind of feel like those are m tr maybe trauma points too for for you.

SPEAKER_06 33:18

Yeah, it was it was an identity thing where I'm like, why can't I like that? And then what fed that was, well, you know what?

SPEAKER_03 33:26

Well, they're beneath me anyways.

SPEAKER_06 33:27

Yeah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 33:29

Who gives a fuck?

SPEAKER_06 33:30

Yo!

SPEAKER_03 33:31

Oh my god, I know.

SPEAKER_06 33:36

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:37

Call me Dr. Phil. Maybe not Dr. Phil. Absolutely not. Maybe not him. Someone knows call me Iyanla. I forget Dr. Phil's like a crazy Republican, a MAGA guy, but yeah. Call me Ianla. Call me Ayanla.

SPEAKER_06 33:56

Lasagna!

SPEAKER_03 34:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 34:01

That's a great character.

SPEAKER_05 34:04

Lasagna. So oh my gosh. Yeah. Yep. That that was that. Oh god.

SPEAKER_03 34:11

So there's a lot of I I heard a lot of lessons there. Are we hitting a sore spot?

SPEAKER_06 34:21

It's just, oh, God dang. I I I I want to go back in time and just slap myself. Like just God dang. Because I like in in a and it was very hindering and it had a lot to do with me showing up as a people pleaser. Yeah. So it it it it goes on to a it does a lot, it did a lot of damage. Yeah. Because I let it get there because of the fact that I let bullying get to me. And I just took a different route. Well, saying, like, well, you know what? I'm better than you anyway. Because I'm like this, and you want to be over there with your pants down over your butt.

SPEAKER_03 35:02

Yeah. I feel like you mentioned it earlier, you the Candace route. I feel like all those kind of like black Republican, you know, uh not Republican, let me face it, black black MAGA.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

Black, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:14

Um I feel like kind of have a a number of them have that kind of like attitude of superiority.

SPEAKER_06 35:22

Yeah. Because it especially when they have all these white people who are not because I have I have a lot of white friends who are actually my friends. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 35:32

Like You're not the token.

SPEAKER_06 35:34

You're not family.

SPEAKER_03 35:36

Right.

SPEAKER_06 35:36

And like I love them so much. But like it it's just it here's God, it's it's just it gets to the point where I remember my grandmother was so happy that I married a white guy. And it was like a symbol of status.

SPEAKER_03 35:52

Yeah. And in her time it might have probably was.

SPEAKER_06 35:56

Probably. Probably. Yeah. So I I I I I kind of weaponized that.

SPEAKER_03 36:04

I can pull it in my association. You can't.

SPEAKER_06 36:08

Well, any well so something like that. I mean, the the vibe was there, but I don't think I was brave enough to say that.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Right.

SPEAKER_06 36:17

And I don't think that's very true. Uh yeah, I felt it was an underlying internal thought. It was it was but not not something like that severe. That's why I was able to wake up and God. Yeah. You know, because it wasn't that deep. So yeah, like, oh my gosh. I just just thinking about like the version of the person that I was. I mean, it just it just led to a lot of other lot it led to a lot of bad thinking. And I had to unlearn a lot of that and become more human and to see things for what they were and to be more analytical about things and to appreciate my co like my culture, like black people in general, you know, and another thing that ignited it too was doing the ancestry because I wanted to because it all kicked off because I wanted to see if I was actually Native American.

SPEAKER_03 37:12

We all did the ancestry during uh COVID.

SPEAKER_06 37:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:16

Amongst other creative things. If you know what else can we entertain? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 37:20

So I wanted to know like more of my genealogical roots and to see if I was actually Native American. Very, very, very small percentage. I think it was like less than 1%. But everything else came out to be like like 46% like broken up countries, and then which were all Northern European. Just like, well, how come that much?

SPEAKER_00 37:46

Right, right.

SPEAKER_06 37:48

It says Negro on both of my parents' birth certificates. How come that much?

SPEAKER_03 37:53

I hope it does. Does it say Negro? It does. It does. It does.

SPEAKER_06 37:57

So I needed to know, and then that's what I started to dig, and that's when I started to like understand and appreciate who I was and to understand more about like black contribution and different new the nuance of black, like how black is not a monolith. There's all different kinds of people who just happen to be black to do great things. And I started to learn about the history and the tragedy and to really sit with that too. I really had to actually learn about the struggle and the abuse and the rape and the how heinous it is inhumanity, how people were treated and sought and looked at as less than just because of the way they looked and just because that they felt entitled to their resources.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 38:47

Like it it was kind of like and that's what that that's how I learned about how racism became a construct because people were looking for an excuse to take something that they felt entitled to. Whether it be land or resources or or just you can't do it. Your human hood. All of that.

SPEAKER_03 39:12

When you subjugate a human person to property, I'd like to bring this up for a second before we can probably close. We are still technically right now, even though when you hear this, it'll be in March. But we as we're sitting here, it is like two days away from the last day of Black History Month. Anyways, I I told you the story when we were sitting at White Palace, I believe. I was chatting with a musician friend on Facebook. She had mentioned like, why isn't there more men speaking out about all these things that the administration's doing? This is a musician here in Chicago. This is a white singer. And I put in the comment, I said, and I'm paraphrasing, but basically, like, I I do first of all, I do speak up and I do say stuff myself, but I was thinking from a black perspective, like the the traumas that we have ingrained in our DNA include feeding our children to alligators in Florida, taking our teeth and our body parts and making furniture or using them for medical reasons, creating farms, mating farms just for us to breathing farms just for us, breathing us like animals so that folks could have free labor. Using our hair to stuff, using our hair to stuff furniture, like that is our American American history.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:42

That they that they don't we didn't even find this stuff out until like post Yeah. We until after school. This wasn't a part of the and then now they're trying to they're trying to uh soften the the even the story that we got of what slavery was, they're trying to soften it even more right now with the the education department.

SPEAKER_06 41:06

And there were revolutions. There were revolutions. I mean the the whole education part, I'm kinda over like talking on time, but like the whole education part of it was like so watered down to it make it seem like that they was that these people were complacent.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

Right.

SPEAKER_06 41:20

There were revolutions. These people were just like, you know what, I'm not going to be any owned by anybody, and they jumped the shit. Right. There was mass suicides, there was there was all kinds of like revolts and resistance that we weren't aware of because I wasn't in curriculum. But like I started to learn about those things and how precious our existence is right now because at this point we weren't made to we weren't supposed to get this far.

SPEAKER_03 41:52

I feel like history has taught us that trying to assimilate, trying to get everyone on one accord, a monolith type of society has never worked. America is was built, right? The concept of America was built as a a separation from Europe.

SPEAKER_00 42:16

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 42:17

In the whole caste, what is it, caste system, chase system?

SPEAKER_06 42:21

Well, not caste system, but like they didn't want to be under a monarchy.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

Right.

SPEAKER_06 42:26

So they wanted to self-govern.

SPEAKER_03 42:28

Right. Everything that we know that tries to use assimilation just does not uh end up working. So what I'm hearing in terms of where we're at now and what the lessons are, I know for me, going back to where we started, which was the positive, I just learned that you it at a deeper level that my parents wanted the best for me and they did the best that they could to provide that for me. And as an adult, I see that a lot of that has paid off. I do know how to navigate in different spaces, right? As my authentic self, right? But still be able to, and I don't vibe with everybody, but I know how to vibe with uh most folks.

SPEAKER_06 43:20

Well, you know how to communicate surroundings.

SPEAKER_03 43:24

Yeah. I know I communicate. I know how to I I know how relationships should should be placed when it comes to me and my life and how I'm I move. I know how to speak in front of people of all different backgrounds. I I feed my creativity, I know how to connect with people, and I see the value in connecting with people. I see the value in not necessarily what you called it well, you say people pleasing, I don't and I don't associate as the same thing, but I just feel like when if you A person who does not want to cause conflict, but also just kind of wants to connect with people. Some people may see that as fake, some people may see it as whatever. I I see it as effective communication. And I feel like that's something that we should all strive for. We shouldn't we should never I I feel like a lot of folks, especially when we talk about extremists, they end up us they end up just becoming the o the same coin on the opposite side when it comes to how they show up in the world and the things that they are looking to achieve. I've learned critical thinking from this, but also too, I've learned the value in my culture, my background. Yeah, I I guess that's that was my that's that was a loaded lesson, but that was mine. How about you?

SPEAKER_06 44:54

Well, y mine mine was also that I like what I like. And if that's true to me, and if that's honest to me, then that's authentic to me. And when I was talking about the people pleasing part, that was me showing up and doing things that I thought other people thought that I should do.

SPEAKER_03 45:15

Right.

SPEAKER_06 45:15

You know?

SPEAKER_03 45:16

And that's where it came- Even in cases when it didn't feel right or feel comfortable for you.

SPEAKER_06 45:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 45:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:24

And that was me being an authentic, and that's whenever I felt uncomfortable, but I just thought that that's just the way that I was supposed to do it, or I didn't have a backbone. One of the two. But like I learned that the more authentic that I am with myself, the easier it is for me to exist in any space that I feel that I belong in, or that I'm forced into.

unknown 45:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:48

You know what I'm saying? So I I had to appreciate my culture a l a lot more than what I was. I had to unlearn the I'm betterism stuff because I'm not like that's on that candy street. Right. Yes, yes. I had to learn that all of the the racism and the classes and everything, those well not the cla well the racism and all of the all of the little markers that we make, like how we're better than each other or whatever, even even classes of race, that's all made up. It's all made and it's that's the real fantasia. Yeah, that's it. I'm just like, why we need to learn how to coexist together because we all are made up of good things. We all have so many great gifts and talents and things to contribute to make society better. Why do we have to cause suffering to one group of people just because? Like the resource is the human being. And I'm not even talking about labor, you know, I'm talking about gifts.

SPEAKER_03 46:49

That's right. Their ideas, their way of thinking, their mind, their contributions, those are that's where the value is.

SPEAKER_06 46:57

When people are allowed to work in their gifts, then that perpetuates a sustainable society.

SPEAKER_03 47:03

Amen.

SPEAKER_06 47:04

You don't have to like everybody or whatever. But like these, those are the things that I started to wake up to and learn. And I want to be on the part where to to create sustainability. And not just because of my child, but because of my friends' children, because of uh all their other children who deserve a shot because a lot of but a lot of the adults here are fucked up. And I just I just want that a better way, a sustainable, healthy way for other generations to come through here.

SPEAKER_03 47:34

That's your goals for the future.

SPEAKER_06 47:36

That's my goals for the future. And just from learning from all this. Assimilation can be fine when it was coming coming down to the rules of this the way society is. Toe up. Go get that money, I guess. But we need to we need to connect with humanity more and put people first and be more authentic to who are who we are because we're great. We're great in working in our gifts. So that's what I hope for you guys, all the youngins.

SPEAKER_03 48:11

The only goal I'll throw in there too, and I've mentioned this in like our first episode, is that I don't ever want for myself or you or any of us in our millennial, upper millennial age, to get too comfortable or complacent with the way things are to always be have a have a mindset of growth and and change because life just does not and will not ever just pause. It is always things are gonna change forever, and I don't ever want to be that person that gets old and and and and and wanting things unchanged. I want I want things to change and I want to be able to change right along with it.

SPEAKER_04 48:59

Yeah, and I want to enjoy the change. That's right. I want to be alive to enjoy it.

SPEAKER_03 49:04

Because we are definitely in a different time now than our elders and the elders before that, and we are at a different time now than those that have come after us, and there's there's there's learnings and values at every stage.

SPEAKER_06 49:19

And it'll get better when people understand that growth is uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_03 49:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 49:24

But you gotta just keep going.

SPEAKER_03 49:27

So, girl, what you got coming up?

SPEAKER_06 49:30

I have a show that is opening actually on March 8th.

SPEAKER_03 49:35

Okay, by the time this comes out, there'll probably be passed.

SPEAKER_06 49:39

I'll be touring, I'll be touring across It's funny to say touring.

SPEAKER_03 49:46

You are on tour, girl. That is what it is.

SPEAKER_06 49:50

Yeah, so my theater company.

SPEAKER_03 49:51

And fuck who don't like it. She is on tour.

SPEAKER_06 49:54

Yeah, so my theater company is called the Violet Surprise Theater. We will be produ or putting on a production called The Revolutionist by Lauren Gonderson. And I really enjoy this play. I'm excited that it's this we're we're we're in tech right now. I'm exhausted, but we are in the final stretches of perfecting this show, and I love it. I love it so much. And we'll be there'll be different uh show dates throughout the year. So I'll I'll post that. Put that in the caption, I guess. What do you got going, Jay?

SPEAKER_03 50:32

Well, I've got a few show dates coming up. I just got booked for Arlington Heights, so I think I may have mentioned uh I I I'm I've signed with the booking agency this year, so I got a few solo things coming up, and one is Arlington Heights, and then of course I'm doing some more things in the burbs with one of my group, Shea Butter, spelled C-H-E-Z-B-U-T-T-E. All the time this comes out, it should I used to call them Shea Ches Butter. Yeah. But yeah, LesterJ.com. Just check out the website and see those dates. And if you can come out to one come. One of the things that that's back in my mind now is what date I'm gonna put down for the expanded Luther Van Jar show in 2026. So hopefully by the time this comes out, I'll at least be talking with some venues and getting the crew together and what that's gonna look like.

SPEAKER_06 51:38

So that's exciting. Yeah. It's a f like every time you perform, like I've seen you just like in random festivals. My God. It is a festival.

SPEAKER_03 51:49

I love festival season in Chicago. Like it's Chicago's just so dope.

SPEAKER_06 51:52

It's great for live music, especially outdoor live music.

SPEAKER_03 51:56

We've got the best skyline, we've got the best food, we've got the best entertainment. We've got the best people, and we got the best people. Have you seen our mayor and how he's talking to standing up to tyranny right now? Yeah, I've got to be. JB Pritzak, he's not perfect. Yeah, no, but he's he's saying some stuff over there in his little chair, you know?

SPEAKER_06 52:18

Yeah, and I'm I'm happy that they are people focused. And like we we're able to have see, this is what happens when you let culture be culture. You know, when you let people work in their gifts, yeah, when you support them and you understand and appreciate the contributions that they have to give on all levels, on all levels. It's not just art, it could be math. It's not just like academic, it can be analytical type of thing, systems, engineering, anything. Just let people work in their gifts and support them. Because that's how a sustainable society can be a sustainable society.

SPEAKER_03 52:54

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_06 52:57

Yeah, yeah. Well, so I'm I'm excited for festival season for you, especially.

SPEAKER_03 53:02

It's a riot, come through for all of us. And then, like I mentioned at the concert, hoping that you can find me a good rave to go to because I've never been to one. You know what? Let me take that back. Can we pick before we close?

SPEAKER_05 53:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:18

Uh huh. I have been to rave environments, and I feel like that's the reason why I want to go to like an official quote unquote rave. Like when I think about rave, I think about kind of like warehouse environments, and I've done shows and been a part of shows that were in the blues and rock kind of stuff, underground, exclusive, uninhibited kind. Like I've been in those spaces both as a talent and also as a as a as a consumer, but the genres of music have usually been like hip hop. I've been to a bunch of underground stuff when I was in college, where they're doing like these kind of like dance things, and it's gosh. So I've never gone to official rave. I want to do that this year. It's not on my goal list, but it's something that I want to do. And Leslie is a rave expert. She's going to facilitate that. I can't wait.