Episode 9 - Aisha Khan Unfiltered: Commerce, Confidence and Calling B.S.

What’s the biggest e-commerce lie brands still believe? According to Aisha Khan (WPP Media, Head of Retail Media & Digital Commerce for Unilever U.S.) that retail media alone is going to save the growth plan.

In this unapologetically honest episode of SHeCOMMERCE, Cristina and Jacqui sit down with the one and only Aisha Khan for a conversation that goes way beyond buzzwords and straight into the real work behind modern commerce leadership.

Aisha brings the heat on why brands need to stop treating retail media like a magic wand and start thinking bigger. From social’s role in driving retail demand, to the reality that all media is now commerce media, she lays out a sharper, smarter playbook for growth.

But this episode doesn’t stop at strategy.

Aisha also gets real about the human side of leadership: the bold career pivots, the moments where things nearly caught fire, the lesson that creative still drives performance, and the truth about what women really need to lead transformation inside complex organizations. She opens up about sponsorship, boundaries, feedback, self-awareness, and recovering from toxic leadership without losing yourself in the process.

This one is equal parts commerce masterclass and career therapy session.

In this episode, we get into:

• Why retail media isn’t the only answer to growth
• How social, culture, and demand creation fuel commerce
• The mistake brands make when they over-focus on media and ignore creative
• What it really takes for women to lead boldly in high-pressure environments
• Why one sponsor is not enough
• How to protect your power, trust yourself, and stop apologizing for being great

Smart, sharp, and wildly relatable, this episode is for anyone building brands, leading change, and refusing to play small.

Bold Brands. Fierce Women. One Sisterhood.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Welcome back to She Commerce where power, women, and real talk collide in the CPG world. How's it going, Jackie?

SPEAKER_01 0:11

It is going some, Christina. I mean, is it how is it March? Because I'm sure it was only January 4th yesterday. Huh. How did we get here?

SPEAKER_03 0:23

I am almost a quarter of the way through the year. Today's a special day. On a personal note, we want to wish you a very warm Mother's Day, as this weekend is when it's celebrated in the UK and Ireland, which is different from here in the States. But um, you are an amazing mom of your twin boy and girl, Zoe and Eddie. And I just want to say the way that you show up here with your heart, your humor, your sassiness, your strength, and all the things while, you know, basically running the logistics operation back at home is so impressive. And I just want to take the time to wish you a very happy and well-deserved Mother's Day. Mother's Mom Day. What do you call it then?

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Mother's Day. Mother's Day. Christina, that is so sweet. Ladies and gentlemen, that was that was not rehearsed. That was Christina straight from the heart. Caught me completely by surprise. Thank you. That was that is that was so kind. And coming from such a super mom like you, high praise indeed.

SPEAKER_03 1:26

Oh, what are we what's going on in the world? What are we talking about?

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Well, I mean, oh my god, let's not talk about what's going on in the world because instant depression with oh my goodness, everything, everything, everything. Let's let's skip that. But I'd love to riff on a little bit is still still the Women on Boards project that we discussed with Kirsten and Cassie. I mean, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Right? Such amazing women, such an amazing cause, right? Such amazing progress they've made. It's just phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

It is. It is. And I can't wait to such an important idea. And I can't wait for this to be d to go global. I mean, they've they've achieved so much in such a short time. I mean, these two they could power a small country. Not kidding. With that power and energy, you know? Yeah. Just easy.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

Yes. It is very timely because Nielsen IQ just recently published a report at the beginning of March arguing that women are shaping category growth, channel shifts, and brand momentum. And they say that roughly two-thirds of women's CPG spend flows through mass and grocery, and that women are more likely to use coupons, shop discounts, wait for sales, and compare private label to national brands. So this report shows in that women are increasingly driving wellness, self-care, and life stage-specific demand, including menopause-related needs. So I know this is a topic we discussed about why women on boards is so critical because we're representing the consumer, the shopper, and we are the audience. So we need that voice at the table to be represented, right? I have a question. But I think, you know, women are not a side brief in CPG. They we are the economic engine.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

We absolutely are. We are we are the V8 of the car, right? I mean, without the engine, all you got is a pretty shell and four wheels. That's it. Not going anywhere. No, it's the broom, baby. We're the broom broom.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

Buckle up. So yeah, I mean, I listen, I think it it just reinforces what they said. So it was very timely when we we saw that. And I think, you know, it's much bigger than International Women's Day or Month energy. It's really about brands understanding this very critical cohort and having very clear value architecture because we see through the BS. All right. So that's not gonna work. You can't like pink it and shrink it anymore. You need to really understand us and speak our language and make sure that all parts are connected. Your digital shelf content is reinforcing that, and you have more honest innovation around those real life stages and real household dynamics that are happening in the world around us.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

100%. And, you know, as you say, International Women's Day and Women's History Month, all in March, and you know, British Mother's Day all together in one month. I mean, they are huge and it is necessary, but it's not just about performative pink cupcakes, right? This is about let's let's pause and let's reflect on what it is that women are bringing to the table. In this case, all the goddamn money, right? All the purchasing decisions. I mean, Nielsen IQ literally did a report on me. You know, the sales, waiting for the sales, cross-referencing against against um, you know, brands. This is this is what we do. Wellness, you know, menopause, oh, menopause stuff. Research, research, research, you know, what's good for the menopause, what's good for the hair, what's good for the skin, all that stuff. Literally, it is a report on my spending habits and my research habits. And I'm every woman, right? And if that is every woman, that's Whitney.

SPEAKER_03 5:35

Come on, God damn it. See? I'm sorry, you did it, you said it. That was you. Just let the record show to the audience that Jackie dangled that carrot. Okay. Thanks. I I plead guilty, Your Honor.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

And yet, through all of this, through all of this data and information that is out there stating all of these facts, 10% representation in all the brands that we as women are purchasing from.

SPEAKER_02 6:07

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

On their boards, correct. On their boards, exactly. Shocking. Shocking. Think how much more. Think how much more spend there would be by women with those brands. If it really, if these were the if these were messages or ideas or campaigns or strategies that really focused on what women want. Like the movie, what women want. Yes, what women want. Did you remember that movie, Mel Gibson? I did. And Helen Hell? Mel Gibson. Do you remember how brilliant he became when he could listen to it?

SPEAKER_03 6:43

He could listen to the mind of a woman.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Yes. Absolutely. That and and that's when he started winning campaigns and started winning uh awards, and everyone's like, oh my god, it's like you're a woman. Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? So I mean it's it's time.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

Yeah. It is time. Yeah, definitely. TikTok. Let's go. So speaking of women who I know you have some amazing women to acknowledge and congratulate.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

They got me some gray day lapsong sushong, baby. So today we are celebrating one of my absolute promotion with one of my absolute favorite brands. Because they are so sassy and audacious and cheeky and and human with their campaigns and their ads. So we're gonna say well done and kudos to Carly Natalicia, who is being promoted from chief digital officer to chief commercial officer at Gymshirt. I mean, this happened in February 2026. But it's still being actively discussed in leadership news. So, Carly, we are so happy for you. You know, cute us. This is this is huge news. And in more tea, because we have all the tea today, Cheryl Ha has gone from chief marketing, or is, I should say, the chief marketing and digital officer overseeing e-commerce at SACS Global. Again, a February 2026 promotion, but still a huge deal in leadership news and actively discussed today. And you know, the thing is the reason it matters is because luxury retail, that lat last bastion of legacy, is increasingly merging brand market with e-commerce platforms. You know, her role explicitly looks at and oversees end-to-end digital e and e-commerce experience across the retailers' ecosystem. That's huge. So congratulations, Cheryl.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

I mean, both of these roles are signaling. Yes, congratulations. I think both of these roles are signaling this this greater shift, right? That no more managing just the silo or your channel, but you know, the the how it needs to be embedded in order to win and thought of more holistically as part of the total ecosystem, right? Seeing these it's encouraging, right? I love it. I think it's it's the right move. So kudos to those them.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Absolutely, absolutely. Now, this this segues neatly into who we're having on today as our fabulous royal guest.

SPEAKER_03 9:32

Yes, and it it is rightfully fitting that we are featuring her as part of our Women's International Day because she is a woman to be reckoned with, and we're very excited uh to welcome this queen to our court. So, Jackie.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Today's guest didn't just crack the e-commerce code, she rewired the whole damn motherboard. She's the woman brands call when their digital strategy needs CPR or a glow-up. Is she a badass? Oh no, she's the queen that badasses learn from, who has turned clicks into empires, chaos into clarity, and test and learn into a full-blown lifestyle. Aisha Khan, welcome to SheCommerce, where we spill the tea, drag the buzzwords, and celebrate the women actually moving the money.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

I'm honored to be here. Thank you so much for having me. What an intro. I'm gonna have you join me on all my calls and introducing the site, because what what a pick-me up on a foggy Monday morning. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

I do corporate too, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

Yes, Queen. We've been ready for this one. I think this is coming full circle for us because we congratulated you on your new role on our very first official episode, and now here we are. So this is uh a real full circle moment for us, and we're so excited to have you. We've obviously worked together. So I know in real life that it's true that you are the powerhouse that everyone believes you to be. So we're so excited just to continue to hear from you and dig in with you. And I know that you are not a BSer. You're gonna tell us the real truth, even if we're not ready for it personally. So here's our hopefully spicy enough opening question for you. We're just gonna dive right in.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_03 11:22

What's the biggest e-commerce lie brands still believe? And what myth would you happily set ablaze on this podcast?

SPEAKER_01 11:32

And and and don't give us the LinkedIn filter version, okay? No, no.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

I um I love that. I'll give it, I'll keep it straight. I think right now there's, I mean, there's many. I feel like my the one right now that I feel like will really move the needle is that to grow in digital commerce, it's not just retail media that's gonna get you there. So if you want to grow on Amazon, spending in Amazon media is not the only way to grow. Same with Walmart, Target, et cetera, everywhere. And I think right now there's a little bit of a disconnect or just maybe a hope and a prayer that, like, if you want to grow on a channel, you're not hitting your growth rates. You just gotta put more money in the retail media network and it'll it'll solve itself. And I think that's that is a big myth that I would love to set fire to today, like light the match, pour the gasoline, like um, and and just set that ablaze. So thanks for the opportunity to lay that out there.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Okay. So the next question we have is is really around your bold moves. And and this is one of my favorite phrases the risk you're risking not taking the risk, right? Your career is full of bold pivots, brand builder, agency whisperer, digital fixer, professor, speaker, all the while being this incredible powerhouse. Which moment felt like your shit, this better work leap? And how did you steady yourself? Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

I feel like that every day, every single day, it's kind of like this, this better work. And there's a lot of um, a lot of being in an agency role is pulling on all your previous experiences and putting them all together for for your client. And I feel like what I love about the role is that I get to do that. I feel like some of it though is you do have to figure out how to tow the line between coming up with data, hard data for your clients of like, let's do this, let's test and learn, let's experiment. Then there's another tier of more advanced measurement where we can measure things, incrementality studies, models we can create that are, you know, not quite the full MMM. We have to wait months and months, and there's more rapid ways of doing it. Then there's, yeah, sure, maybe we want to spend a lot of money and be able to wait to make these bigger budget decisions to make these changes. And then there's the trust me, I've seen this, this works. Like you have to figure out where to, you know, where when to play what card. And obviously, where you can have data, you should always, always provide that. And some of it's just like, I've seen this before at so many different places, and it always comes back with this sort of direction. And so this is where we need to go. And so, right now, again, going back to what I said earlier, around it's not just retail media that wants to grow, I do have a hypothesis that social is so tied to retail, like everything that's happening in culture, it's what's tying to your demand at stores. And so it's hard because retail media networks are so great at what they do and they're so great at that conversion and converting that demand, generating that demand. While there's some tactics and channels, like the Amazons and the Walmarts in particular, and Targets have like such so many great um capabilities in that space. They're still not, they don't own a uh TikTok or Meta or Facebook or Instagram or WhatsApp, right? So you still need to look at other channels to create retail media demand. So it's almost like all media needs to be driving demand at your retailers, right? That's the point. Everything you do in marketing needs to drive sales. And so starting to pivot that mindset and say, hey, like if you want to grow on Amazon, maybe let's look at national media or let's look at something with we were doing in PR and even outside media. How do we get your earned and your PR work, that media to work hard for us at retail? So that's just a new way of thinking, and that's my current, it's kind of like a new playbook, right? That that we are writing at WPP. And so that's that's fun. And that's my little bit of like, this better work moment. But I think it'll pay dividends for brands that are willing to lean into that.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

And it has. But I think to your point, is leaning into understanding the data, right? Because we know people don't shop in isolated channels. I mean, we've known that. That's where Omnichannel came from. So it's just commerce media, it's the holistic like ecosystem of all those uh places, channels, disruption points that can drive to a conversion. Yeah, I love how how you phrase that. It's like all commerce, all media versus just one channel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

So like to your point, what's commerce media? Commerce media is now almost all your media is coming.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

All media, yeah. Where does it start and end? I mean, the number of times I also I'm very weak, but the number of times I have bought, I have purchased, made purchases, because I have been led by the nose through something I've seen on on Instagram or or TikTok. Sometimes even LinkedIn, and I'm like, oh my God, I'm feeding, and I know I'm feeding, I'm feeding the beast.

SPEAKER_03 16:49

What can I say? Okay. Sometimes we need to give in to those temptations, Jackie. I'm here for it. Okay. So speaking about starting the fire, give us maybe a moment where the that clay book and when you're talking about like this risk you're taking and where you're placing your bets, maybe where you wobbled a little bit or you know, it nearly caught fire. What's that moment where you're like, okay, I'm gonna place my bet exactly on this, and it's gonna either tell me to keep going or pivot into, I don't know, pottery full-time. Like, what's that challenge and how did you turn it into a win?

SPEAKER_00 17:23

This is a great one. I'm gonna pull on an experience a couple years ago. I was at a beauty incubator, and this was when Meta was going through their changes. I want to say this was four years ago. So 2022, we were trying to, I was trying to scale a D2C beauty brand um using Meta, like like so many, like so many other brands. And I just remember being like, well, this has to work. We got a new agency on board. We're like, this is gonna solve everything. Like quickly learn, started, I mean, it got to a point where I'm st I was looking at it, like it just wasn't working. Like even the new agency, like couldn't get it to scale profitably, weren't figuring it out. We were in the campaigns, we were restructuring them. We were doing, we were just touching everything then way too much, right? Which is also you're not supposed to do with your campaigns. And ultimately, like just wobble. Just like I remember having to present to the board and just being like, here's what performance was, like we're working on it, and then being really frustrated. Ultimately, what I learned from that is like um not to ever forget the role of creative. Because it actually wasn't what we were doing in the media. Our media was that like our campaigns were fine, our targeting was fine. It was the creative has fatigued and like we just weren't, we were spending so much time with the media agency and not enough time with content and creative. And I think that was the big learning for me that I'll never forget is like creative is still 60% of performance when it comes to non-search media. And even now in search media, there's video and and assets. I do think that was a big learning for me of like it can become you can become so blind, right? Put your blinders on to just like what the issues are. You really have got to take a step back in moments like that. Um so I try to take that with me today and try to be like, you know, it might not be the thing that's the most obvious issue.

SPEAKER_03 19:15

That's a great reminder. And you know, garbage in, garbage out. And I think it links back to many of the things that we talk about lately, even the use of AI and spending the time up front to really diagnose the problem for jumping right into action, like the importance of that. So thank you for that valuable reminder.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

You know, Aisha, with with everything that you've done and again learning from all of these experiences, what would you, what kind of advice would you give somebody coming into to women, coming into e-commerce and who want to lead these bold transformations, but to your point, they feel suffocated by legacy, by distraction, by the noise, by expectations, family expectations, and the be smaller messaging that, I mean, let's face it, as women, we've been fed since birth. How do you, how do you, how do you advise women on that?

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Yeah, this is um, this is why I love this podcast so much. So, um, first of all, I do listen to you guys religiously. I love how you're not afraid to get into, you know, the the personal, it's not so much personal, it's almost like it's the real talk behind what drives professional performance, which is personality and style and leadership style and expectations of women in general. I think psychological nature of just how to succeed in at work and in e-commerce is very reflective of human nature. And so I I appreciate this so much of getting to talk about this because it can be so easy to just say, like, be bold, drive transformation, and you know, you'll meet your results. And like that is that is so not true. It couldn't be further from the truth sometimes, but I think the biggest things are make sure your goals are realistic, is the first piece of advice. Like I've dived into roles and responsibilities, just take chasing money or title and just getting really excited by those things and just wishing I had taken a step back to say, is the role actually set up for success? Are they gonna be ready for someone like me? I think knowing who I'm never ready for someone like you. They're never ready. They're never ready. I think now I'm at a point in my life where I'm very straightforward with I may not be the right person for this role, even though I think it's a great role and I could do a good job because this is who I am. And this is this is what I would bring, right? So if you're not ready for someone who's gonna lead with a lot of transparency very early, especially in turnaround dynamics and e coms, always a turnaround dynamic. There's always not enough growth. There's always more, more, more. It'll never be enough. That's any sales role in general, but in commerce, I think. There's definitely a um right. We don't have 30 years of history setting of how to set goals or etc. Right. And it's just changing so much. So I do think digital commerce versus in-store commerce, they're both equal pressures, but I think in CPG, digital commerce just there's a lot of miss um misconceptions. And so that gap between reality and the expectations can be really big. And so I think not being afraid to know who you are first and what your strengths and your weaknesses are. Like sometimes my biggest strength is I will rally to a goal, but sometimes my weakness is I will just do that in the time that I have. But sometimes that's not, that means I can't bring anyone everyone along in that journey. And so sometimes peers, managers, like they're just not being brought along. And they're just like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you're moving too fast. You're sending this email, you're talking to this person, you need to let me know, you need to bring me along. And I'm like, okay, okay. Sometimes I, so sometimes I need to like almost bring my leadership along and like who I am, bring my peers along now in that of like, I'm sorry if I do certain things. It's not, it's not like to cut you out. It's just so I can meet these things on time. I think, especially in agency world, making sure that the business dynamics are explained to my agency peers. Cause again, national media, they're not assigned a goal every month of sales. Like they don't understand sometimes what that pressure is like and what it takes to deliver that. Um, sometimes to clients, helping them also understand, like, hey, maybe the reason I'm setting boundaries so much on my team is not so because we're lazy and we don't want to do the work, but because in order to deliver against your sales goals, the core work needs to get done. And like that takes a lot more time than you think. And like, I think educating people. So I think my advice is like the more in, especially in commerce, if you want to be a leader, you have to as early as possible set the expectations up for who you are, what you're gonna do, that is that is atypical of the rest of your organization. And if you don't get that support, you just have to realize it's gonna be a tough time and you're gonna get your hand slapped. And you either are gonna be okay with that, or you're gonna get frustrated by that. And you're either gonna leave the organization on your own or you'll be pushed out of the organization because the organization is gonna be like, whoa, you're way too much of a renegade, you're not playing by our rules, you know. But if you could set those expectations up front, I think it gets better and easier. And I think the agency world, it's been good for me to learn after making many mistakes and not doing that. I'm now able to do that. And I think bring bring my peers along in that journey and my and my management. And I think that sponsorship is the most important thing of like not just having, and this is my mistake too. I've always thought having like one senior leader was enough. I was like, oh, I got one senior leader, he's the president, he's gonna have my back or she's gonna have my back, and it's gonna be fine. Everyone's gonna fall in line. And I realized that that's not the case. Like, you need to have at least two or three sponsors, senior sponsors in multiple different organizations before really delving into, I think, a role as in a commerce leadership role. Because it's yeah, it's never no matter how senior that person is, you're just gonna start to feel like an outcast. You're gonna start to write, like create a lot of friction in your organization. So I think again, just like doing the rounds before the role, just being like, I'm so sorry. Like, here are the things I've got to do, I've gotta do quickly. I know this and this has been done historically before. I may at some point be proposing something different, like a whole new sales strategy process, a whole new forecasting process. I might be grabbing more media dollars, right? Like going to your national media team and saying, I'm so sorry, but like we may need to actually point some more dollars here. Not now, but maybe soon, and just saying, like, right, hey, I want to work on that together. I want to work on that with you, and just giving them a heads up. Again, I I've just learned so much about it's hard. It's really, really hard. And you're almost guaranteed to be set up for failure, and you're never gonna make everyone happy. And I need to be okay with that now. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

That is incre that literally this podcast, every interview is a learning moment. So much of what you just said, Aisha, has resonated. The whole setting your stall and you know, staking who who you are, because you know, let's let's face it, or or I should say, I will be honest here, and I'll say that when from when I was uh when I first started out working to you know to not that long ago, my working habit or persona was very much all in all the time, the whole time, you know? And it was a case of boundary, what boundary? We don't need boundaries, we're we're family, and it's and and we're not. We need those boundaries for our own sanity too, right? And for our own development and and to allow us that objectivity and and to hear you say that again today is really powerful. And I hope that people coming through the ranks or looking at coming through the ranks are paying close attention. Her name is Aja Khan, people pay attention.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

And I I just love the reminder about you need to be true to yourself and you know yourself best and don't be persuaded. Sometimes, I mean, I have been in the past too, right? By the offer, the money, the title, whatever, the sparkliness of it all. But if you're trying to like, you know, fit a square into a round hole and you know yourself, like, are you really set up for success? Is this truly going to make you happy? Are you going to make be able to make an impact here? I think those are critical questions that especially women probably overlook and skip over just to lean in and or even seeing a problem. We talked about this up front, like wanting to fix it, right? We're fixers, so we, well, it's gonna be different when I'm in the role. Well, probably not, you know, like, but I think that's so important and it comes with time. Like you said, you know yourself and you also leave little room for interpretation. I think that was my takeaway too. That, hey, this might come across as this way. I'm gonna tell you up front, like, this is who I am, and it's not personal, and I'm gonna drive towards this, or I move quickly. And if I am leaving you behind, it's not intentional. Just, you know, give me that nudge and I'll happily bring you with me. That get in front of it. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Yeah. It's not, it's not easy, but it's definitely um, it's definitely needed. So, so yeah, I think that really honest conversation with yourself and then others really, really helps. Um, because you're gonna, you know, you're it's gonna, you're gonna create fiction when you're creating change. Like any change management roles is quite normal. I think um that's that's really important. And knowing yourself is really protecting yourself because you're gonna get no matter what, there's someone that's gonna say they're aggressive and they're the and there's so many times where I ask myself, like, if a man was in this role, would they say the same thing? Like aggressive or tornado or right? And some of it's just like some of it could be fair. Again, I ask myself, sometimes, did I do that, or could I have been brought other people on maybe, but most of the time, especially now, I do try to go out of my way to make sure that's not the case. And then when it does, I'm just like, if I didn't do that, we wouldn't have gotten XYZ, which which we would which would have been detrimental to our goals. And so I, you know, sometimes there's a little bit of ask for forgiveness later. And again, you just have to do your due diligence if that's not all the time, and that's not how, you know, if it's once in a while, it's gonna happen. And sort of forgive yourselves in those moments, like when people do come at you and interpret you a different way. You just have to know who you are and that the right people know who you really are. And I think that that's the piece again, creating that sponsorship is really important.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

I love that. You earlier, when you were talking through all this, you also talked about having sponsors and and um not just the one, a few. So tell us a little bit, Aisha, about about the allies. Who put your name out there in those rooms where you weren't yet invited to be a part of? Who taught you the difference between support and the women who clap for you publicly versus those who really support you? The ones who are like all performative and compete privately. Who showed up for you in a way that really changed the game?

SPEAKER_00 30:27

I have a lot of people who have really shown up for me, and I'm really, really lucky for that. And I think, especially early and mid in my career, it really just is like if you, it's not just like if you work hard, like people will recognize it and come. I think it's I always did a good job of going out of my way to like network and make relationships outside of just working projects, and then recognizing that sometimes there's a vibe and sometimes there isn't. Like sometimes there are really senior leaders in prominent positions who you'll connect with and they're nice and they're they're kind and they'll offer advice. And then there's others you meet with that you're like, there's just a connection, there's just a vibe. Like you can't explain it, but right away you're just like, you're someone I want to be around. And usually on the other way, like you'll get that connection too, where if you reach out to them, even if they're senior, they'll answer your invites, they'll see you in the hallway and talk to you. Like, there's just little like like signs that people who are more senior, like there's mentors and there's sponsors. Mentors are just like anyone who will spend time with you who are senior, they'll mentor you. Sponsors are similar, but they're just again, it's like it's hard to put a I'll just keep using the word vibe. Like there's just a connection. There's like, and it could be from anything. It could just be your background, it could be from your race, it could be from being another female, it could be for just, it could be just some. You both like the same band or the same sport, like whatever that is for females. I've had males, many males be sponsors for me in my career. Sri Rajikopolan was my first real sponsor, where I literally was in procurement, and he was like, I was like, I really want to be in e-com sales. And he's like, You're in procurement. He's like, no. I was like, please, though, like put me in a change management role. And he means I bugged him and I bugged him and I bugged him. And finally, I was like, come on, man. I'm like, we're both, you know, we're both brown. You gotta help me out. He's like, no, no, no. Then finally he's like, oh, this girl, fine. And again, I like was you just have to play, you have to find that connection point and like be unapologetic about playing it up. And that's what I did. I was like, help me out. And I, you know, and I did a great job for him, and I worked above and beyond for people will take a chance on you. Usually people work uh, you know, above and beyond for them. And I've always done that when people go out of their way. Like, even when I went to agency world, I had an amazing two female bosses actually at the time who were incredible. One was Shannon Reed, the other was Amy Lanzi. And they truly went to bat for me as well and showed me that like just being a manager is one thing, but being like a life coach and a sponsor, and you know, just people who go to bat for you, even after you stop working for them, says a lot. And where I'm working now, Sam Bukowski is my first manager here. I currently work for another woman, Lauren Lavin, who was our North America lead. Shout out to her. Like they're just amazing. Like they're just really people you look up to and you're just like, wow, like, and they're also women who pull up other women. And so now I pay it forward, but you just have to find the connection. Sometimes it's there, and you have to be honest with yourself if it's not.

SPEAKER_03 33:25

I mean, all great points, and anything can give you that connection. Like you said, it's that, it's that vibe, right? And then you build from there. So how are you? You just mentioned this, like paying it forward. How do you show up for women rising behind you? Because you are that inspiration for many now as well. And that's a responsibility that I'm sure doesn't come lightly for you and you you take very seriously. So anything you can you can share on that?

SPEAKER_00 33:48

I appreciate that. I think about this all the time because again, I've made a lot of mistakes too along the way, but I think now I've taken all my all the good and the bad and the ugly of my previous managers of what I've seen. And I put that into what uh how I want to show up for others. And I think now the most important thing is actually just being in a spot where I can put my money where my mouth is and actually pull up people, promote people, give people a chance, maybe before, you know, it's a little bit early, communicating to others who are like, really? I don't know. I don't really see her in that. It's a little bit early, and just being really strong about being like, no, like that, that she's the right person for that role. She will show up, she will step up. I will personally coach her and get her there. I have seen her work in action and leaving that sentence full stop and not having to keep explaining yourself. And I've had other women do that for me as well, and just being like, listen, whether or not she's ready right now, yes, maybe there's a fumble here, she is still the right leader. And so I take again, I take all of that into what I do and try to make the best decisions for my team and give them those opportunities to grow, even before they're a little bit ready.

SPEAKER_03 34:57

Oh, yeah. And I I love it. I mean, go ahead, Jackie.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

I just love that so much. I really, really love that.

SPEAKER_03 35:05

Yeah. No, same. And one of my biggest pet peeves is when people use that as pushback. Well, they're not ready yet, or they don't have this one little bit of like if you know 100% how to do your job on day one, that's the wrong job for you. There needs to be stretch, there needs to be growth, right? And you need to come in. And I love that you offer yourself as that bridge to say, I'm gonna help them get there, right? I'm gonna be hold me accountable to get them from here to here. But that's gonna come once we give someone the opportunity. You can't get there without giving them that. So thank you for doing that. That's really important.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

That's gonna be feedback. So, like, I want that feedback, giving that feedback to others. And sometimes women are almost scared of giving other women feedback sometimes, like, because it can get sensitive, but again, just like finding the right time and place and head space is like so important. But you've got to be bold. So I'm very transparent about feedback. I try to give people feedback constantly because then it doesn't become like this like weird special moment of feedback. It's just like always on. And I was like, hey, like, you know, and I try to do it usually like you know, a sandwich approach, you're doing a great job. Here's an opportunity, keep going, keep crushing. But like that's that's something I try to remember is it can be hard and awkward, but feedback is how people grow.

SPEAKER_03 36:21

What's the most personal lesson your career has taught you in terms of you know, all these things we're talking about, power, resilience, making a big impact? And maybe that lesson didn't come from a win, but it came from, you know, a failure or a moment that really knocked you down that you had to come back from. Oh my God, I have a I have so many.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Um maybe for me, the big one was working for, I'll keep it general, but I I did work for a manager at one point who definitely was like a narcissist. And working for a narcissist for a period of time will do damage to you, like literally. Like it's like real trauma. And it takes about as much time as you've worked for that individual to undo that trauma, which again I learned and I have so lucky I have coaches and people in my life that have helped me through this, but who like really, you know, he really broke me down. And like, again, just like after you hear so many times, like you're this kind of person, you're this kind of way, here are your faults, and like they just like right, and their whole thing is pitting everybody against each other and all this stuff. You really start to internalize it. So I consider myself a strong person. I know why I am, and like, but there was a period of time where I was going through that that like towards the end, I was like, maybe this, maybe I am this and that, and I'm not meant for this. And like, I think personally, then afterwards I struggled in roles because I was like still holding on to all that doubt that got created externally. I like internalized it. It took me a while. I finally like got it out of my system, and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. I like like no no no no. I'm a you know, look in the mirror and I'm like, no, no, I'm a bad bitch. I got this. Like I know who, I know who I am again. Like, I don't know why I even did that, but it it really did. It did some damage, I have to admit that. And it took me time to get over it again. I had to just forgive myself before it forgave that person. And I don't hold any aw towards any, you know, it happened, it happened, and I just like just took it as a lesson and moved on and became better for it. But that really was like something you, you know, I needed to overcome through again connecting with people who know me, connecting with myself, doing a good job, getting some wins. But, you know, I made some bad decisions afterwards because I wasn't in my full like power in my full headspace. So, you know, now I'm there, there again. I'm happy to say that. But I try to recognize when others may not be coming from situations that are positive, or maybe they were working for someone toxic. And, you know, try I try to be the leader that gets them out of it, but it definitely takes time for sure.

SPEAKER_03 38:53

Don't let anyone knock that crown off your head. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Exactly. It happens though, it happens, and it's okay. It's unfortunate.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

So it's it's very much uh, I think as well. I mean, it does happen in males, of course, but I think it's also a female thing because we're so conditioned to do better, to please, to be be good like the whole time. And if someone says, Oh, you're not good, the first thing that you think is, not what do you mean I'm not good? I'm phenomenal. The first thing you think is, oh, what what do I need to do to be better? What can I do to make you happier? And that's the thing, you know. I mean, I'm trying to, I'm trying to um definitely not get my daughter to be like that. And she's got a little bit of sass going on there, which I I mean, hard as a mother to deal with, but fabulous. You knew where she got it. I don't my my husband. He's a very sassy woman. Yes. I hope he's not listening to this. But she's, you know, she's got the sass, and I and I'm loving this because that will hold her in good stead going forward, as opposed to, you know, it's uh I'm not gonna lie, it took me time to say, actually, I am really good at what I'm doing, and you are not good at what you're doing, and this is the problem. I'm not the problem. You are, and I and I and I love that you are helping people through that now. It's so powerful. It's so powerful. Wow, so many things you say today, Aisha, is resonating hard.

SPEAKER_03 40:20

It really is resonating. We've experienced that ourselves, and you know, it is hard to come back from. And I think giving yourself the grace, like you talked about, to say as much time as you had to deal with that, you're gonna need time. It's not snap your fingers or change your job and it's over. There's that lingering effect. It does. It's unfortunate, but you know, recognizing that and then investing that energy back into yourself and having that support around you, I think is it's really important. And I think it's a great reminder for people who might be going through something like that themselves. So thank you for sharing that. Being open. Yeah. Well, speaking about how much of a badass bitch you are, the next question is I'm eager to hear your answer. So, what's that song then that plays in your head when you are you know hyping yourself up for the next pitch, negotiation, conference, stage, et cetera? We know that this is gonna be good.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

So I love that. So M M-I-A, bad girls is one of them. Me and my what me and my best friend, like it's just for like a college, old college tune, but like that's that's a good one. That one always gets me like hyped up of like, you know, bad girls do it well. Like, that's right. That's that's how that's how we roll. It's like, and it's you know, it's not actually bad, but it's actually like, you know, you're you're in your power. You are, you know who you are, you're confident, you're bringing all of that energy. It's about supporting other women, and it's just bringing the best and being authentic, positive, smart, and unapologetic, I think is like a big one. Like I think women just apologize a lot for being great. It's crazy. It's like we're almost like sorry for being awesome.

SPEAKER_03 42:01

I just noticed that on LinkedIn, you've somehow, you have to teach me how to do this, but like you've changed the URL to say e-commerce queen. And after today's conversation, we knew it before, but after today's conversation, I think you very much solidified that in not just our hearts and minds, but many more people in our viewers' hearts and minds. So, I mean, thank you. You you definitely brought the tea and you're unapologetically yourself, which we absolutely love. So Queen is very fitting. But with every episode of She Commerce, we bring women into the sisterhood. You're already there, but we are paying it forward, we're amplifying voices, and we're rewriting the future of commerce together. Will you take that pledge with us?

SPEAKER_00 42:44

Absolutely take that pledge with you. And I said this before, but I want to make sure it's it's said on the podcast is I think what you're doing for our industry and for the women in our industry at all levels is so important. I think it's hard to find the time to carve out to do this type of work. And I just want to thank you both so much on behalf of everyone in this industry for doing that and finding the time, despite the fact that you're busy, wives, moms, friends, sisters, daughters, everything. Um, this is another hat that you've chosen to put on. Um, and I wish I just had the strength and the energy to do that. But thank you for doing that on behalf of all of us. Like these are the conversations I think we all need to have, and to have this sort of platform means a lot to me. Um, so I appreciate it. And I will continue to amplify this podcast on your voices because I think they're just as important. And so just thank you.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Oh no, Aisha, thank you. Today we really did have Christina, a queen in the court, coming She Commerce podcast. Full brands, fierce women, one sisterhood.