Episode 12: Fresh Take, Fierce Presence w/ Liz Mayer - Elevating Your Personal Brand This Spring

What happens when you’re doing everything right… but still not getting seen for the leader you already are?

In this powerful SHeCOMMERCE podcast conversation, Cristina and Jacqui sit down with executive coach and consultant Liz Mayer to unpack one of the biggest traps high-achieving women face at work: being known for execution, but not recognized for influence. Together, they dig into what it really means to refresh your personal brand without reinventing yourself, why over-functioning is not the same as leadership, and how women can stop waiting for permission and start showing up with more clarity, authority, executive presence, and strategic influence.

Liz shares why so many women are rewarded for being the “gets it done” person, yet overlooked when it comes to shaping direction, driving vision, and earning the next opportunity. She offers a smarter, more sustainable path forward — one rooted in self-concept, standards, career growth, executive presence, and intentional visibility.

This episode is part mindset shift, part career development strategy, and all real talk.

Inside the episode:

• Why your next level does not come from doing more
• The difference between being seen as reliable vs. being seen as strategic
• How over-preparing and overworking can actually signal under-trust in yourself
• The personal branding shifts women need to make to lead with more influence
• Why “permission” is one of the most expensive things women keep waiting for in their careers
• A simple self-audit you can do this week to reclaim your power

If you’ve ever felt stuck being the helper, the fixer, the workhorse, or the one carrying the room without getting credit for driving it — this one is for you. This is a must-listen conversation for women in leadership, marketing, commerce, CPG, and growth roles who are ready to move from execution to influence.

Bold Brands. Fierce Women. One Sisterhood.

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SHeCOMMERCE Podcast expressly disclaims any and all liability or responsibility for any direct, indirect, incidental, special, consequential or other damages arising out of any individual’s use of, reference to, or inability to use this podcast or the information we presented in this podcast. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

You're here with Christina and Jackie for another episode of SheCommerce, where power women and real talk collide in the real CPG world. And we have a fantastic guest today that we'll be welcoming soon. We're going to be talking about something that so many women feel but don't always and aren't always able to put a name to it. It's what happens when you're doing the work, you're executing, you're delivering results, but for some reason you're just not being seen and maybe overlooked for promotions. You're not being seen as that strategic force in the room that you know deep inside that you are. So that's what we're so excited to speak with our guest today on, who's an executive coach, a consultant, and just a beautiful, powerful voice that is helping high-achieving women stop overfunctioning and really start owning the room and turning their expertise into real influence, opportunities, and career momentum. But before we get to that, let's talk about happy spring and what's going on for our spring theme as we enter the month of April and May.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Well, Christina, we just came out of Easter's lots of chocolate. Way too much chocolate. I see what I'm doing here. I need a spring detox. My body's like, oh honey. That was two eggs too many.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Two eggs too many. No, I get it. I need a similar spring detox or and spring cleaning, like digging out of the winter we had, the frost, and seeing the sun for the first time again, and being able to kind of clean out outside, inside, internally, all of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

We have, you know, my never-ending construction project.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

The build that the build that just will not quit. We actually were able to do some painting. We're at that level. We're painting. Christina.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

That is you're getting there. You're almost done. That's like the one of the last things you do.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

No, no, no. I mean, we still need floors and stuff. But the rooms are starting to look like rooms, you know? I mean progress. It is. It is. It's from like a shell that would with with uh water on the floor to almost final paint before the carpet's going and stuff. So I'm just sitting there going, that's exciting. Oh my god, oh my god. It is very exciting. Spring has sprung, baby.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

It is here. What did they say? It comes in like a what does it say? Comes in like a line. Red that one too. So there you go. I came in like a wreck. Yes. Well, I feel like this this clean, this deep clean doesn't just pertain to people, but businesses could benefit, right? Do a little spring clean of their own. A deep clean of the calendar, maybe the strategy, the language, the team rituals, like all the above.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

It's timely. A lot of business, a lot of people in business are overdue a deep clean. And that is exactly to your point. It's kind of like um, you know, New Year's New Resolution. And I b I feel I never do that. I don't do new year new resolutions. I wait for spring. Because who wants to start new stuff when it's frickin' cold out there and you're shivering and it's dark and it's just always dark? You know, when the sun comes out and you're like, yes, I'm a running, I'm a lifting, I'm a cleanin'.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Uh-huh. You know, yeah. It's true. Well, I think you know, one of the the questions that spring cleaning brings to light is, you know, what are we still doing out of habit? Not because it works, and I know we're gonna talk extensively about this with our guests, but just because it's it's what comes natural to us of what we've always done, or you know, that that habit.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

That is such a great point. And and also, what are we tolerating professionally that should have been taken out months ago? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

And I think for women especially, this can be a really powerful reset, right? Less of the overdoing, less overpacking, less overcompensating, less trying to be everything to everyone, more clarity, more edge, more discernment.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Cut the fluff. This fluff that is often disguised as opportunity. We need less of that. We just need to get like to the real stuff.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

So whether it's your brand, your workflow, your leadership style, or your industry vocabulary, consider this permission slip to clean house.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Mm-hmm. I love that. We're giving out permission slips to everyone. Well, let's start with spilling some tea too. First up, we have Christina Vale, who made a big move from Profitero to Front Row. She's joined front row as chief operating officer of Marketplace Partnership. So she's gonna bring some serious digital commerce firepower from her days at Profitero, where she was most recently serving as COO. And she has deep, deep expertise across customer success, business ops, and consulting. And she just has a track record partnering with major consumer brands. I've worked with her at a few companies, and she's just stepping in to help strengthen front rows marketplace capabilities and drive growth for brands that are navigating this complex commerce landscape that we're all trying to make sense of. So big move, big mandate, and big congratulations to Christina. And we have another one. We have another one, Tina Tonielli. So Tina Tonielli, I love this, has self-described as choosing her own next adventure. And it's a it's a good one. She's joining the Campbell's company to lead insights for their stacking division. Sounds familiar. And her reasons were just refreshingly human and relatable and very spring cleaning-esque. It's her first time in food, first time truly living inside the core target as a mom, first time having a commute that she says is braggable under an hour. I mean, that's still pretty hefty, but okay. So definitely, you know, goldfish moms, innovation talk, and a fresh chapter. I think that is the recipe for a strong reset. So congratulations, Tina, and again, congratulations to Christina.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

Amazing women. Amazing. Now I have tea, Christina, and we're talking Darjee Lang, baby. This is this is the spicy stuff. So Unilever buys McCormick. Yep. The Flavor Kings and the household name food brands are officially getting married in the morning. But also, let's clear one thing off our list first. Unilever is not buying McCormick. It's a merger, it's a partnership. So the deal combines the food business with McCormick, creating a much bigger global flavor player. Ooh, try saying that fast. Global flavor player in brands like Moore, Helmets, and McCormick's seizing portfolio. The strategy. The strategy is amazing. It's focused and scale, but investors have not exactly greeted it with standing applause given the complexity and the risk baked into the deal. So major move, but not exactly tidy. But I'm excited about this because together they're aiming to build a next generation food platform that's faster, more premium, and way more consumer obsessed. So, I mean, that's a fantastic signal, right? It's about owning taste, culture, and relevance in a world where you know it's gonna be flavorful. You know, consumers are are cooking more, they're experimenting more, and they're demanding bolder flavors with cleaner labels. But here's the question though, Christina. Who's going to be next?

SPEAKER_01 8:14

That's the question. Place your bet. Time will tell. But there what is certain is there will be more, I'm sure, due to the economy and the financial pressures. It's a way to grow. So congrats to them. I think with even though it may be risky to some, with big risk comes big reward, and that's what we're hoping to see.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

It's like the Spider-Man. It's at riff, isn't it? With great power comes great responsibility. Responsibility. Dun dun dun. We are so thrilled, ladies and gentlemen, to welcome Liz Mayer to SheCommerce. Liz is a consultant and executive coach whose work sits right at the intersection of leadership, visibility, and career elevation. Through her coaching and consulting platform, she helps ambitious women lead with more authority, advocate for their value, strengthen their presence in high-stakes conversations, and build successes that don't come at the expense of their energy or identity. Her message is clear. Your next level doesn't come from doing more, it comes from showing up differently. She also brings a deep commercial and growth experience with consulting work tied to unified commerce strategy. Damn. Marketing, digital commerce, and organizational transformation. So this is not theory, ladies and gentlemen. This is someone who understands both the internal game of leadership and the external realities of modern business. Liz Mayer, welcome to SheCommerce. It is a pleasure to have you on board.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Thank you, ladies. What an introduction. And I am so thrilled to be here. And I just I love your work. I'm a huge fan and I love your work. So thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Thank you. Thanks for joining us. And as you know, we are in April. So we have set our theme for this month to be about, you know, spring cleaning, resets, new beginnings, etc. And you're the perfect person to talk to us about that. So, Liz, what does it really mean to refresh your personal brand? And this is especially important for women who are evolving professionally, but maybe don't want to feel like they have to reinvent themselves every time they grow at every stage of their life.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

That's such a great question. And I love, I love this idea, number for one. I love the idea of the whole concept of a spring refresh. And oftentimes when I think about spring refreshes for myself, and I think we we've been marketed right to this way, is that we need to spring clean our homes or we need to spring clean everything. And really the spring refresh, it's about spring cleaning our minds. And it's about really thinking about how do we think about ourselves and how we're showing up in our life, in our career. And it doesn't need to be a reinvention, right? To your point, Christina. It doesn't need to be a massive, huge, deep clean. Really, it's about as you think about your personal brand and how it exists and how it exists within your career and your entire life, the question you gotta ask is, is it working for you or is it working against you? That's kind of how I see it. So what I see with a lot of the women that I work with, whether it's in the consulting space, the partnering group, or just in my coaching practice, is these women are delivering incredible results. They are excellent, but their brand is positioned around execution, not necessarily influence and vision. And what we're actually seeing play out in the data is that more women are actually far more engaged at work than men, but also they're more burned out at the same time. So when you think about your personal brand, it's almost never a motivation problem. It's actually a positioning opportunity. And it's not about doing more, it's about refining how you're seen and how you're experienced in the moments that matter. Because your career doesn't grow from more effort, it grows from better positioning, is my take.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

I think I have a question. 100%. Here's my question on that. Women, as mothers, as women generally, we are generally the fixers, the solutionizers, the give me a problem and I'll solve it. The honors. Kind of honors, yes. Completely. It's that what you're suggesting is a mindset shift from fixing the problem immediately and being that that person who does that, to not fixing the problem directly, but providing the long-term view of what that of vision basically. That's what you're saying. Of don't just look at this problem, look at the entirety of the issue. Look at the entirety of the.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Yeah, and and I think, you know, the I use this analogy, Jackie. I think when we were talking last week, right? So women are wired like floodlights, right? And and men are more like flashlights, right? So this is this concept that women are seeing all of the things in the entire environment. We're able to zoom out, we're able to connect the dots. We have this intuition where we can pick up on different things. Honestly, it's this like feminine intuition where men are more, they're just better, they have an easier time in terms of focusing, right? So they're like a flashlight. They can zero in versus when women are engaging, we're seeing all of the pieces and parts and how they work together. And that is why women are such amazing strategists. We are such amazing problem solvers because we can connect the dots in ways that typically men might struggle to do, right? However, if we are constantly distracted with fixing all of the things, or we get so overwhelmed by everything that we're seeing in the forest that we can't really channel our energy and our effort onto the most meaningful problems, our messaging and our impact will get diluted. And so I think what's really important to your question is for women to really take a look at that bigger picture that they see in the ecosystem, right, of their of their company, of their industries, and really say, what do I want to stand for? What is the perspective that I have and what is my point of view, right? And what is the agenda that I want to really drive and lead and influence? Not what's all the work that needs to be done. You can answer that, right? But who do I need to get on the same page as me? And how do I enable this message to really be taken to the next level? Because to your point, there's so much branding in this area of like women as workhorses, right? Or no, you're known for the one who like gets it done. I think Christine, you said the gets it dunners, right? But if you're not shaping the agenda, you're not gonna be seen as the one who drives the direction. And you don't get promoted out of execution. You get growth by executing better and more efficiently and more effectively. And often that means getting yourself out of the weeds, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:03

And that that segues perfectly into our next question for you, Liz, which is what are the what are the clearest signs that your personal brand is no longer working for the level that you want to operate at?

SPEAKER_02 16:19

That that's a great question. So there's there's so many, but I would say really the well, the first one I kind of mentioned is you're the one who is known as the person who gets it done, but you're not the one driving the direction. So, like I used to like have this joke where I'd say, stop offering to take notes in meetings. This was obviously like pre-all the automate and note-taking apps, but like that's an example, right? Regardless of the software you use or your company uses to take notes, if you're still that helper, that's usually a sign. In particular, if you're not where you want to be, that's a sign that you're known as the one who is the helper, but not the one that is directing. Another one is that you have maybe positioning more in the people-pleasing area. So you're viewed as collaborative, you have great relationships, but nobody knows what your opinion is, which is why I think it's so important for women in their personal brands to have a very clear point of view and be okay being provocative with that, right? And then I think another one is that you know your stuff, right? You know your stuff. You are the expert. In particular, if you're in the commerce marketing space, you probably had the elbow in pretty hard to get a seat at the table, right? If you are the ones that were combating the budgets against like the upper funnel and now you're here, right? You got there by being the expert in topics that maybe nobody else cared or had time to get into, right? But that expert level energy can hold you back because you're not consistently communicating your value in a way that sticks because you're so focused on being perceived as the expert and as the one with all the answers instead of the one that drives the decision in a complicated ecosystem. So that's where I see a lot of, you know, if you if you feel like those are things that you're up against, that's probably time for, again, not a total repositioning, just some tweaks, right? Just some changes in that that focal point, right? Of that, that big lens you're looking through.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

There's so many good points there. And I think so many of us can relate to at least a piece of that, right? And it's a big shift, right? Easier said than done to go from doing and feeling like you're adding that value and this is you're needed for that, right? And I think that's really hard to shift that into less execution, like you said, to more influencing and driving the strategic thought process around it. And I and I also think, you know, wanting to have value, even if it maybe is the wrong value, is better in people's minds than not having value. And so that that shift or that fear of making that shift in positioning is probably even more daunting within the same company or role, right? It's easier to come into a new company or role and say, okay, this time's gonna be different. I'm gonna, this is what I'm gonna be known for and being really intentional, like you said, like doing that spring audit. What do you, you know, what's adding value, what's not, what do you want to be known for? But how do you shift that in your current role, in your current company and change those mindsets? Because perception is reality. So how do you change people's perception that you're not that workhorse, but you are a strategic leader?

SPEAKER_02 19:47

That is a great question. And the way that I think about that is in order to change anyone else's minds on the outside, you have to convince yourself first. And you need to start really understanding what is your self-concept rooted in, right? Because so many of us early in our careers, we took pride and we were rewarded and promoted based on expertise, execution, working long hours, being responsive, being a go-getter, right? And it takes a lot of almost subconscious programming and awareness of how do I see myself and what do I say about myself when it comes to the work that I'm doing. Because oftentimes we think, okay, we gotta worry about like what everybody else is thinking. And obviously, if we want to change perception, we we do need to cue a level of influence with the individuals in the room. But if we don't change our self-concept, if you still see yourself as just the person who gets stuff done, but not that strategic visionary and that strategic influencer or that leader who is capable of changing the trajectory of the business, you're not going to show up that way. And so one exercise that I do with a lot of my clients is it's from um it's from the execution workhorse, right? Like I execute and I get this done, where you know, in their current rule, to it's of course it's me energy. Of course it's me energy as the strategic visionary leader, right? And then it's working on if it's of course it's me energy, right? Of course it's me, I'm the one who's going to show up strategically. Of course it's me that I'm going to be the one who is going to bring up the challenging issues that is going to point where the growth or the issues exist. Then I start challenging myself in terms of what work am I doing? What project? Am I working on? What am I delegating? And what am I still holding on to? And you start to check yourself, right, against that new standard and you start to see your work change and how you show up change. So it sounds very like, I don't know, kind of like earthy crunchy, but it is. It's about if I believe that I have everything I need to influence growth within this company that I've worked at for 20 plus years, right? I'm making this up.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Hey guys.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

Then what is true about the way I show up? Right. And I don't show up just as the expert in making this up, retail media. I show up and I'm going to talk about the shift in consumer behavior because I know what I'm talking about, right? And every time I show up in a meeting, it's not going to be about just the retail digital media performance. It's going to be about what is happening and the shift with our retailers and their consumer behaviors and how they're finding brands. And I am going to really start showing up as a thought leader who connects the dots within the broader business. But you have to see yourself and almost hold that standard of your personal brand first and get really clear on what are the things that you're doing to support that. And what are the things that you're doing that attract, excuse me, detract from that that are holding you back and really be honest with how you're spending your time and your energy so that it goes more towards that thought leader energy.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Liz, I have to say that uh I mean, literally every single word resonates so hard and it'll resonate for our listeners as well. And but it it's it's one of those things. Yeah, I'm gonna be brutally honest here. It's scary as hell, right? It's scary because it's taking you out of that comfort zone of the way that you've been brought up. And it's deprogramming yourself from that, right? However long that's that's taken you, and putting yourself first and betting on yourself. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

That's right. And I would say that if you feel that when you start to tell yourself I'm capable of more, and I am a world-class business leader, and your brain says, uh, you're right, then you're probably doing it right. Because our brains, to your point, our brains, every human's brain, is wired to keep things easy, to keep us safe, right? And to do as little work as possible. And so if you want to change the way that you are perceived, you have to first convince a brain that wants things to feel easy all the time. But that's where the work is, right? It's not enough that you just go to a conference and like go and like meet a bunch of new people. That'll be helpful. But if you meet a bunch of people and the only thing you want to talk about is the same topics you've been talking about for three to five years, you're not gonna grow, right? But you have to start telling your brain, this is who we are now, and this is how we show up. And you need to rehearse it and you need to align your thinking to it so that the stories that you used to tell yourself of we can't do this, or everything's gonna fall apart if I'm not ready, right? Or if my team doesn't know, or if I'm not doing the work, everything's gonna fall apart. We have to be able to say, I was made for more. I have a perspective that can move the business forward. And then we determine what that agenda looks like in our organizations. But until we believe that we have that capacity, we we won't make the change. And that's why I always say just be prepared for your brain to fight you. It's gonna fight you. No, no, you're not. Oh, something's gonna look for those obstacles and be prepared. This doesn't feel good. This feels different. Some of that is just the path to change.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

That kind of leads into my next question, which is about, you know, for women in commerce and marketing and growth world, it's what does that fierce presence actually look like in practice? You know, especially in rooms where revenue and strategy and influence are all on the line. And let's be brutally honest here. So is your role, right? What does that look like? How do you how do you advocate for yourself?

SPEAKER_02 26:34

Yeah, still keep your and still be employed. Be employed, right? Well, so I like to braid's a great question. So the way I think about it is, you know, we're talking about brands, and you really need to think about yourself as a brand. So, how do the best brands in the world operate, right? They don't, they don't just like show up in those meetings, and they're not just saying things and doing things to get attention, right? They're intentional about how they're perceived. And so I like to break this into levers. So the first is vision, right? What do you want to be known for now? And I think what's really important, and you hit the nail on the head. What do I want to be known for now in relation to the business context? Because if you don't define your personal brand in relation to the context and where the industry is going and where your company is, you're gonna default into being known for whatever is most visible and what is comfortable, right? Which might be execution. So defining that vision within the context of where the value is created, which typically in commerce marketing, yes, it's consumers, but it's also retailer relationships. It's also obviously the relationships with the greater market, with the stakeholders, really defining that vision, right? Internally and externally. Then I think the second lever is standards, right? Now, really critical to ask yourself and answer what are you no longer available for? Because every yes you give is reinforcing your brand. And that's where like the burnout starts to show up. And in those tense environments where we might be concerned about our role, we might be working and working and working and working. And it might be depleting us further where we're not showing up as our best selves, right? About six in 10 women at the senior level report frequent burnout, right? We're not burning out because we're not capable. We're burning out because we're over-leveraging effort instead of influence. So if that vision is ultimately rooted in the context and the environment of these stakeholders, internal and external, then the standards are a way to not just obviously protect your energy, but to ensure and enable performance and alignment with what the business needs, right? We're no longer available for conversations where I am going to take my eye off the ball, which is delivering results for the company, right? Of course. The third level is sorry, Jackie, did you have builds there? Sorry, I'll just keep going because I get excited about this.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

I'm just, I mean, every everything you're saying is just like, you know, bling, bling, bling, bling, you know, all these light bulbs going off in my head.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

Well, the third, the third level or lever, rather, is essence. So this is really about how you show up in the rooms. And this is actually where I tend to see women create more stress, right? Like how many times, um, and maybe it was for you ladies earlier in your career, or where you still see it today, where you can tell that a woman spent so much time over-preparing that she has created like her own stress prior to even like delivering the message she needs to deliver, right? And maybe because of that, her point of view or her perspective is really watered down. So when I talk about essence, if you're over-preparing, or even if like you're overworking, you're probably under trusting yourself and you're under-indexing in the worthiness and the confidence that you already bring. So the essence piece is being the leader who is not necessarily always the most prepared, but is the most clear and the most decisive. Because, in particular, in this environment where there is so much disruption, having an essence, grand essence, that is steeped in clarity and decisiveness establishes trust. And we are in a trust recession. So that essence is a critical lever. But to the question Christina asked earlier, if you don't trust yourself, right, it's gonna be really hard to get that trust in the room around you. As since it's critical.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

I my my favorite statement you've just made overworking equates to underbelieving or under-trusting yourself, which I just wow. That is that is a POV that I have never considered. And now I'm sitting there going, damn, of course.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

Yeah, yeah. And I think that it's something that we've kind of worn as a badge of honor, right? Yeah. But it's always to our own expense. And if it's not to our own expense, it's to the expense, not just obviously of ourselves in terms of stress, but in terms of our alignment over time, right? In terms of our values and what we're nurturing versus where we're putting all of our energy.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

So let's for women leading in spaces where, again, they may still only be they may still be the only woman in the room, or one of very few. What does visible leadership actually look like without feeling performative? And how do you help women be recognized for strategic thinking, not just reliability?

SPEAKER_02 32:07

Yeah, that's a great question. So one of the things that I work with a lot of my clients on is oftentimes when we're going into rooms, especially where we're not represented, the first question that we always ask, which is completely natural, by the way, is what am I gonna say? Right? Totally natural. What am I gonna say? What do I want to say? Instead, what I I would challenge all of us to ask ourselves when we walk into those rooms is is who is in the room and what matters to them. And so it's who before what. Because oftentimes we get so caught up in what, what are we gonna say? What are we gonna say? What are we how what am I gonna say? How am I gonna say it? And it really honestly proliferates this sense of insecurity. Because at the at the back of that is typically a how do I want to be perceived? And we can't control how we're perceived. We cannot control, we can influence it, but if you have a bunch of people that, you know, for whatever reason think a certain way, they're gonna think a certain way. It's your job to really think about those individuals in the room. How do they make decisions? What's important to them, and what do they need to learn from me and what I see in order to make better informed business decisions about retailers, consumers, whatever, the business strategy. That shift puts you in an energy that I like to refer to as like advisor energy, right? A lot of us are really like focused on being the expert and maintaining our expertise. But when you think about that, and and we are experts, all of you, the all the listeners here, they're tremendous experts. But experts are when you say you're an expert, it's very internal focused. It's like I'm an expert. But if you think about yourself as an advisor, which women are so naturally giving and open and willing to share, advisors are about making sure that individuals understand our perspective and understand what is in it for them. And so instead of getting into that room and thinking, oh gosh, I am the only woman here, right? I am the only, maybe you're the only woman of color, right, on the line. Maybe you have a feeling that you're going to be interrupted and mansplained to within the first five minutes. And that might be true. Really sitting down and saying, How do I show up as a world-class advisor to this audience? And in order to answer that question, you have to ask what is in it for them. And you have to understand what motivates them, right? And then address the point from there and show up in that power.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

And I think you have to understand the value that you can bring as well, right? You need to have that belief in yourself, which is something you spoke about earlier. That's kind of the first step, right? Everything I think begins. Yeah. And I think that like internal struggle, right? And a lot of women will wait for permission, right, to jump in, wait for permission to start showing up as that leader that she may very well already be. So, you know, what is that identity shift that has to happen before you can stop waiting for that permission? Like something needs to click. You don't need the permission. You have this in you. Believe in yourself. You know, go add that value. How do you how does that, how do you flip that switch internally?

SPEAKER_02 35:36

Everybody is different, right? In terms of the stories they tell themselves, right? And why, right? So your version of seeking permission is different from maybe my version, Jackie's version of seeking permission. What I find to be the most powerful is let's just say you're getting into a meeting and you are scared as hell. You are intimidated, you are like, oh gosh, like, right? You're not in that energy. Take out a piece of paper, and I would strongly suggest it be a piece of paper, or if you're more of a verbal processor, take like and record yourself, right? And just answer the question, why am I feeling uh insecure right now or whatever? Why and why, why, why? And just let yourself answer the question unencumbered. Don't judge yourself. Give yourself 10 minutes, 20 minutes, as long as you and just go, go, go, go, go. And then stop and either reread those notes or listen to yourself, or maybe even just talk to a friend and ask them to like listen to you. And you're going to find when you read those notes or you listen to that recording, you're going to find a predominant line of thinking, a predominant sentence in that line of thinking that is essentially summing up the root of your need for acceptance, right? Which is like permission. Right. And it might be something like, I don't know how to do this, or I am not ready yet, or it's my boss's job. Right. It doesn't matter, but it's a story and it's a sentence, and everything else kind of falls underneath it. Identifying that is the first thing. And the other thing I would say is identifying it not with shame, but with compassion, right? Like, think about there's so many moms that listen to your wonderful podcast. Like, think about if your kid came home and was like, Mom, I don't like myself today. You wouldn't be like, Well, that's a bunch of BS. I mean, you would be like, Oh, clear. Why? What's wrong? And that's what you have to do for yourself. You have to set up that safe environment to become vulnerable and to see yourself. And when you see that thought and you find that thought, women are amazing at doing to-do plans, right? We can run circles around most people, especially if you're a working mom. Like you literally can stand on your head, make chicken soup, pack hot pockets, and define KPIs on retail media. Okay. Like you can do all of these things and then go to a competitive cheer competition and come out looking like amazing, right? We can do all these things. So women are awesome at execution and activating because we've had to be. We've had to be wired to do all those things to prove that we deserve a seat at the table. What I want you to do is when you find that thought that is not serving you, you have to say, well, what's the next level thought that is one step better than this? And it might be something like, even though I believe I am not ready yet, I am willing to try to be ready. It could literally just be as simple as that, but you have to start creating what I refer to as like step-up beliefs that you install in your brain the minute you get intimidated, the minute you want permission. And maybe that statement is as bold as the only permission I need is my own. But oftentimes it's really hard to go from I'm not ready yet, to the only person's permission I need is my own. I can say that to you and you'll be like, yeah, you're right, but you don't believe it. And so it's really important to say, where am I thinking? And what's one little tiny little sliver step belief that I can believe that gets me to correct this line of thinking the next time it happens. And what you do, because women are amazing at multitasking and doing all the things, is you write that next level thought everywhere. You put it on your phone, you put it on your to-do list, you put it on a sticky note on your computer. And when that email comes across that intimidates the hell out of you, where you are like, I did something wrong, or I'm in trouble, or he's not gonna like that. That's another one. He's not, oh, they're not gonna like me. That is one I hear all the time. They're not gonna like me. Stop and say, I don't need permission right now, and I'm gonna keep going. And you have to catch yourself in the act. You have to literally supervise your brain and your thinking like you're supervising a child with scissors. And that is the work we need to do. It's not about doing more, it's about working on our self-concept. And that's usually the part that like we don't have time for. But I would say you won't have time not to do that. So here you go. Soapbox, sorry. Soapbox moment.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

I just, oh my God, can we just listen to you every week, please? Every week, every week.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

It's amazing. We need these, we need these daily affirmations from Liz, right?

SPEAKER_02 40:34

Yes. I have to free your mind, right?

unknown 40:38

Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

So, Liz, in in terms of you know, what you said before and aware with women about the over-preparing, the over-delivering, the over-functioning, and and you know, with the fact that women think that that's how you influence. What does influence look like when it's sustainable? You know, how can women expand influence and executive presence without falling into that trap? And I and I know you just said, you know, keep it in mind, don't feel like you're not enough. You've talked about don't don't look for permission, don't look for, don't second guess yourself. But what is the actual presence of that look like?

SPEAKER_02 41:18

Yeah, that's a great question. So I know I kind of jumped around on the growth, like those like levers, the brand levers, but you actually just open the door for me to go to the next one because I actually think that this is where the rubber meets the road, is is your personal like brand strategy, right? So we all hear and we all have been in these meetings where it's like, you know, the what it's like strategy is basically deciding what to say no to, right? Is you're gonna say no to this. And so when you think about your brand strategy, you need to really ask yourself when it comes to your time and energy, are you investing your time and energy? I think it's both important because we don't think necessarily about both. We just hear time management. We don't think about energy management. Are we putting our time and energy in the rooms, in the relationships, and in the tasks that actually build our brand forward, right? Into this non-permissive badass that we're all capable of being. Or are we stuck in execution loops? Because I mean, here's the reality if your calendar is full of tasks, right? Or if you've just up-leveled and said, okay, I'm gonna influence, and yet your calendar still looks like a crime scene, your brand is not gonna come through. So what I think is really important in that instance is really to kind of take a look at the way you've been operating and the way you want to operate, and literally have a list of this is where my time goes now. And these are the things I'm going to do because the ROI is high and it's elevating me and it's enabling me and it's filling my fountains, my fountains of energy. It's not like just draining me. And these are the things that I'm gonna minimize because I have to do them, but they're drains, right? But I'm gonna minimize them. And these are the things I'm gonna stop doing completely or I'm gonna delay and delegate and be very clear about those things. And the reason why when you do this, I actually think you are not just to look at your work life, but your whole life is because as women, because again, we're seeing that whole, we're seeing that big floodlight, is we can't just like say, okay, today I'm just gonna be professional Liz. And then the Liz that yells at her kids and that is the cheer mom Liz is over there. And like we're not because that Liz is here. That Liz is getting a text message in the middle of the day that the cheer registration is not complete, right? And it's a distraction and it's just happening, right? And so what's really important is that you get clear on what are the things that make you better and what are the things that need to be taken as a backseat and they need to be managed differently, delegated, delayed. Eliminated. And if you can do that in advance, right, as part of your strategy, then you're going to be that further ahead. Because I think what we tend to do is we don't avoid obstacles. We've already like spent so much time trying to tell ourselves, like, I'm ready, I'm enough, I got this. And then you're like, oh God, Todd the Topper is in the meeting. No, like I don't want to talk about Todd. But if you start to think about Todd the Topper as this is an obstacle, it's a drain, but I gotta deal with Todd. I'm just gonna minimize it. And I'm only gonna think about Todd and work with Todd for 20 minutes a week, no more of these meetings, right? I'm making that up. Then you can start to back your strategy with your time and your actions. Is that helpful? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

And it's always Todd, isn't it? It's always a Todd.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

I work with a great Todd, but I'm using it. Todd the topper, it just rhymes.

SPEAKER_01 44:54

But I like the energy component of it because you're right. It's not just time. It could be, you know, a short amount of time, but a tremendous amount of energy wasted on something or someone or some feelings, right? And that can completely drain you and then make the rest of your time less efficient. So, you know, I I love just that duality of how you're you're saying you need to evaluate these things and where you want to spend that time and energy, and where you have to, how do you minimize it so that you can kind of compartmentalize and say, okay, this is this is only so much time and I'm gonna get through that, right?

unknown 45:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:35

And so much of that, ironically, is giving yourself permission. It's all connected. It's all connected. It's like at the end of the day, like you aren't here to do work that drains you all day and that depletes you all day. Now, there's gonna be seasons like you know, in your life where you might have to deal with something draining that you can't control, right? You might be going through layoffs or you might be dealing with a sick parent, or and those things are draining. However, if you aren't giving yourself permission to play in the fountains, to give yourself the time and the energy and the work that replenishes you and be around the people that you love, then you are not going to be able to elevate your brand to a brand that is inspiring and influential. And so that's why it's all about looking at your entire ecosystem of your life, right? And saying, what am I gonna be available for and what am I no longer available? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

It's a great reminder. Um, well, we're gonna switch gears a little bit. I know we're coming to the end of our time, which is sad because we could keep talking about this and listening to you for hours and hours, but we we have some fun questions to ask you. And the whole, you have to start with yourself and make yourself believe and you know, have that energy that you you want to put out there. What's your power song when you're gearing up for a major sales pitch? You know, you're leading one of these sessions to encourage other women, et cetera. Like, what is that power song for you?

SPEAKER_02 47:08

Gosh, well, I feel like I have a power playlist. So I would say I I have an oldie, I have an old one and a good one, um, a newer one because I'm very like much into music. So I would say that my tried and true power song is Freedom by George Michael. Because freedom is a value, it is a value, it is how I live my life. And we all, a lot of us want freedom, but it reminds me that the price of freedom is courage. And so you have to believe in yourself or you have to do it scared if you want freedom. And that's it. So that would be my like always, always. And then I really love 12 to 12 by Somber. I just like I can't. That song comes on, and I'm like, I love it. I actually listened to it while doing my hair for the podcast. So yes. But your hair looks beautiful, so it's not great.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

On a slightly different note, like what's the most ridiculous or outdated advice um you've ever received as a woman in business? And what would you say instead now?

SPEAKER_02 48:21

There's so much outdated advice. Like it's hard to pick. I would say, and I don't know that this is an advice, but I think it's something that I struggled with for a long time is there was a period of time I actually think it's change, where a lot of companies were marketing themselves as families. And I think that is shit. And the reason I say that it's dangerous is because in families that are functional, and we all know that there's a lot of dysfunctional families, you can do anything and you are always and should be unconditionally loved and accepted. And that mantra does not work for companies that are in business to drive a profit. And I think it sends the wrong signal to trust your employer more than you trust yourself and to be confident in an employer or in your boss or in the culture of the company more than you listen to your intuition. And so to me, that is probably um one of the, I would say just kind of things that I had to debunk personally, like as I've evolved my career and what I do, is to really say, I don't look at my work as a family. I do work I love and I do it with people I love to work with. And I, you know, but ultimately at the end of the day, it is my responsibility to create the culture I want and to create the rooms I want to walk into. And that's just so much empowering. And then it puts the oneness on me to make sure that I am doing that versus giving my power away and making work do that for me. So that would probably be it.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

That's a good one. Every single word, Liz. Every single word from you is like it's a poster, every single one. I've been writing for thank you, lady. So, so close up my final question. Well, my final question is what is the one thing that listeners could do this week?

SPEAKER_02 50:20

The one thing I would say that listeners could do this week is to give yourself a personal audit. Okay. And to audit the way you are talking to yourself about yourself and audit the way that you are doing work and audit the way that you are behaving in ways that are serving you and not serving you. And do it in a compassionate way and give yourself that audit and really ask yourself am I proud of this? And is this the best version and most empowered version of me and of my life that I'm living, regardless of the situation, regardless of the people in the room, regardless of the challenges in the company. Because I think that what that does is it gives you your power back, right? And it puts you as the central judge and opinion of yourself, and it elevates you as the decision maker versus relying on everybody else to tell you what you're doing is right.

SPEAKER_00 51:22

That is powerful.

SPEAKER_01 51:24

I love the self-audit. I think it's so important to reflect and just, yeah, like you said, think about those values, you know, where you are versus where you want to be, what's getting in the way of that, what role are you playing? And, you know, start to make those corrections, make those adjustments. We could go on and on, Jackie, right? We love it. It's been just it's been like our own little therapy session. Like we needed to hear some of this too. So thank you. And with every episode of Sheet Commerce, we're building a growing network of female leaders and advocates. So, Liz, will you take the pledge with us to pay it forward, continue to amplify women's voices, and help shape the future of commerce?

SPEAKER_02 52:04

I will, absolutely. So the only thing left for me to say.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

Well, thank you again. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for all your brilliant insight. Thank you, ladies.

SPEAKER_02 52:13

Thanks for having me anytime.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

Ladies and gentlemen, bold brands, fierce women, one sisterhood.