Episode 13 New Beginnings: From Intrapreneur to Ally‑in‑Chief w/ Donte McCrary-McClain

What if your next career move is not about escaping something broken, but answering something deeper that finally clicked?

In this episode of SHeCOMMERCE, Cristina and Jacqui sit down with Donté McCrary-McClain for a conversation that goes far beyond titles, pivots, and polished LinkedIn narratives. This is a real conversation about the internal audit behind the resume — the questions leaders ask themselves when ambition, purpose, family, time, money, and identity all collide.

Donté opens up about the deliberate introspection that shaped his latest chapter, sharing how he evaluates growth not just through promotions or prestige, but through learning, energy, alignment, and the finite resource of time. He speaks candidly about hyper-independence, the weight and wiring that can come from early responsibility, and how family, serious life experiences, and proximity to mortality sharpened his bias for action.

Together, the conversation explores what it means to pursue growth without abandoning presence. From relocating for career-defining opportunities to building a trusted personal board of champions, Donté offers a grounded and deeply human perspective on leadership, reinvention, and the courage to get uncomfortable on purpose.

This episode also dives into the difference between intrapreneurship and entrepreneurship, and the often-overlooked skills leaders need to build before they ever step out on their own: seeing the forest through the trees, galvanizing people around change, building trust across functions, celebrating wins loudly, and leading with consistency when the playbook does not exist.

And because this is SHeCOMMERCE, the conversation goes even deeper — into mentorship, allyship, access, and the responsibility of using proximity to power to widen the door for others. In a moment where support for underrepresented talent can feel quieter and more complicated, Donté makes the case for intentional leadership that is not performative, but practiced.

This episode is for anyone standing at the edge of a new chapter. Anyone rethinking success. Anyone asking whether the next move is worth the risk. And anyone learning that growth is not always loud — sometimes it looks like honesty, alignment, and the courage to choose what matters most.

Bold Brands. Fierce Women. One Sisterhood.  

SHeCOMMERCE: 

Website: https://shecommercepodcast.com/
LinkedIN:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/shecommercepodcast/ 
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@SHeCOMMERCEPodcast

DISCLAIMER: The content in this podcast episode is provided for general informational purposes only. By listening to our episode, you understand that no information contained in this episode should be construed as advice from SHeCOMMERCE Podcast or the individual author, hosts, or guests, nor is it intended to be a substitute for research on any subject matter. Reference to any specific product or entity does not constitute an endorsement or recommendation by SHeCOMMERCE Podcast. The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent.

SHeCOMMERCE Podcast expressly disclaims any and all liability or responsibility for any direct, indirect, incidental, special, consequential or other damages arising out of any individual’s use of, reference to, or inability to use this podcast or the information we presented in this podcast. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

You're here with Christina and Jackie for another episode of She Commerce where power women and real talk collide in the real world. How's it going, Jackie? Visual effects, Christina. Visual effects. I'm taking this high bra, I know I'm saying. My gosh, you're funny. Funny Jackie today has entered the chat. Hello.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Funny Jackie every day. I'm hilarious. What are you talking about? You are.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

You are. So I keep you around.

unknown 0:34

Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Oh God. Are you ready to spill some tea?

SPEAKER_02 0:39

I am so ready. And also, should we tease a little bit about the thing that we're not going to talk about till about maybe later on? You know?

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Oh, you mean like a very well-known thing that a certain team of fantastic women might be attending? That one? That's the thing, yes. Right. All right. Yep. We could do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

We could. So we're talking about the thing, but we're not going to say the thing, are we? We're just going to talk about how excited we are. Yeah. We will. We will. One day. Someday. One day. One day. Someday. That's a good song. Oh my gosh. Don't get me started on that song. Don't get me started. All right, Christina. Spill me some of that fine Darjeeling.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

So these are things we can talk about. So this week's tea is giving brand stretch and sweet treat strategy. So first up, we have Jill Cress stepping in as CMO at Babylist. And I think the headline here isn't just about that leadership move, which it's a big leadership move, and congrats to Jill, but it's also a big positioning move. We know that Babylist has tons of love. I remember using it when I was having my girls. People are loyal to it. They, there's trust in their family. But it's at that moment in time, again, moment in time, back to Whitney, in that baby moment, right? But as Crest put it, the opportunity is really about closing the gap between being deeply known by some and broadly understood by many. And I think that is such a real marketer challenge to evolve into different life stages and not awareness for awareness' sakes, but really expanding that story and people really understanding your brand and how it can continue to grow with them. Absolutely. Such a fantastic, fantastic move.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

And you know, every time that we go through this, by the way, Christina, and I know you're going to talk about one more as well, but every time we go through this, I get so energized by these to to use a word to a phrase that we have as part of our brand story, these power moves by women, or for women, I should say. It's just, it's, it's heartening, you know? For sure.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Yeah. So congrats to Jill. And then over in CPG Land, we have the real teaming up with good humor. So if you don't know for real, it's like, I would say I know them for their milkshakes and they have these little machines and convenience stores. And honestly, it's like one of my guilty pleasures, especially the mint chocolate chip ones. I love it. When I see a for real machine, I'm like, yes. Because they're not everywhere. Um, but it feels like such a fun find when you do one. Find one. So it's very fun, smart, a little bit dangerous if you're trying to, you know, not snack. But this one is screaming convenience meets iconic brand equity of the good humor brand. So it's very playful, it's experiential because you get to create the mix. Um, you can customize it on the level of thickness, et cetera, to get that shake in a cup ready to go. Um, but it's also a reminder that the right partnership can instantly refresh relevance and trigger new trials. So, you know, I think NetNet, both um babylist and good humor are winning as they're broadening their perception and they're bringing fresh energy along with our renewals and spring cleaning and starting fresh for the spring. So congrats to Vulk. We're we're excited to see what comes. You know, as you say, great partnerships.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

It's like you and me, Christina. I will always let you have the mint chocolate chip.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Always. Huh? Because you don't like mint chocolate chip or because you love me.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

I'll take it. I'll take it. It's fine. I'll allow it.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Um, in other news, Christina, I've been reading. I've been reading Winning with Walmart that I get for that we get from Matt Pfeiffer every week. And wow, this week was a real sucker punch right between the eyes because it hits that controversial new not so new topic. GLP1. Yes, GLP one. And the shopping effect. So let's be clear. This is not a shrinking consumer, pun intended. It's a misread industry. GLP1 users don't and have not quit shopping, as many people would lead us to believe. They have quit tolerating small lives. And if you read the whole article, and we'll put a link to it when we post on LinkedIn and in the in our podcast uh page, it is that the article is so beautifully written, and it's so it's so forgiving. Uh, not forgiving is a wrong word, it's so supportive of the drastic changes that happen to people who use GLP1 for combat severe clinical morbid obesity. The money didn't disappear, right? It kind of defected from junk calories to real confidence. Formal wear, Christina, has uh gone uh gone up in terms of share sales, sporting goods, protein. Interesting this is people showing up, definitely, right? This is people showing up again and again. And retailers and brands calling this demand loss are not being cautious. They are late to the game of understanding what an opportunity this presents to you.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Yeah. And it's the classic fearing what you don't understand and that change that's gonna come from it instead of really leaning in to understand, well, what does this bring with it, right? What's that opportunity, not just being afraid of it and ignoring it or doing nothing? And I think that companies that are winning are those that have gotten ahead of that, done their research, talked to those consumers and shoppers, and have, you know, are starting to benefit from it in a different way.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Yeah, completely. You know, and uh and of course, yeah, I love that anything that allows people to move with freedom and not feel imprisoned by their physicality, but the the the increase in confidence, the increase in the I love that formal wear and sportswear are really shooting through the roof because people are feeling confident to wear the beautiful outfits again because they're but that's that's what it does for you, right? That's what it's doing for you. Just I mean, I'm I'm I'm a fan. I'm always a fan of anything that gets people moving and makes people feel confident. Yeah. Same.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Yeah. All right. Well, we're excited for today's guest.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

All right, all right, G-Commerce fam. Today's episode is for anyone standing at the edge of a new chapter. Not because something blew up, but because something clicked. We're talking about reinvention, trospection, and choosing growth even when it's a little uncomfortable. And let's be clear, this isn't a quit your job and find yourself in Bali conversation. Although, yes, please. This is about doing this is about doing the internal audit behind the resumen. Which is why we're so excited to welcome someone who has lived every angle of commerce, brand, agency, boardroom, and then have the courage to say what's next and why. This person is the kind of leader who doesn't just talk about impact, he builds it, he scales it, and brings people with him while he does that. Sharp instincts, big heart, zero ego. The rare mix of strategic, brain, and human-first leadership that actually moves culture forward. And the provider of grade A hugs. We love people who show up with conviction and compassion. And he does both effortlessly. The energy is real, the perspective needed, the intent always bigger than himself. Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, pull up a chair. This is the kind of voice commerce needs more of. Welcome to She Commerce, Dante McCrary McLean. Welcome.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Thank you so much. Humbled and honored with that beautiful introduction. I can literally shed a tear. That is fantastic. It's a pleasure to be here. And thank you all so much for the opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Pleasure to have you. Can't wait to give you a hug in person.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

I swear to you, first time I had a hug with Dante, I was like, oh my God, this is a great hug. I mean, I kind of just launched myself at you, Dante, to be fair. The New York.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

It was mutual, consensual, 100%. Yeah, because we we we collaborated together, right? And just uh as you sink in with folks, they feel like a family when you're in the thick of it trying to make hard things work and to make things happen. And so I relish in the opportunity to meet, you know, colleagues uh physically to share a win and all the things.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

All righty, let's get started with uh with our conversation and the questions, all the questions. So, first we're gonna talk about the kind of internal audit behind the resume. So, you know, Dante on paper, your career is stellar. Yun Lieber, Noel, Hershey, agency leadership, and now co-founder of Wills McLean advisory. But this chapter wasn't about running from something, and we've had conversations about this. It was about running towards something. What actually triggered that moment of deliberate introspection?

SPEAKER_00 10:09

So on a quarterly annual basis, I'm always doing a bit of an introspection on how I'm showing up not only in the home front, but then also in career. And by way of my background, leading and growing and developing tools and teams and capabilities on both the brand as well as the agency side, I knew that I was coming up on a pretty critical annual cycle of a three-year mark. And I looked inward to ask myself several of questions, including am I learning, am I growing, the energy and effort required on the types of skills, not only from a technical perspective, but also soft or what I like to call essential skills that I am nurturing throughout said organizations with the people that I am surrounding, as well as the clients andor customers that I'm serving externally. Much uh what also comes with that is, you know, the financial aspect associated with it, and just what perhaps the hunger is and the curiosity if we're doing something different. And so it's a mix of all those questions and intentional frameworks and ones to which are not only isolated to my own brain brain and having uh some of this contemplation, but it's also using a network of folks by way of friends and family to mentors and those that I regard within my own personal board of directors to keep me in check. And so it's a combination of all those things and more that led to the introspection from me considering going from one side of the industry to the other in these different iterations of career that I've created thus far.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

I love that you have a personal board of directors, and and we've talked about this previously. Tell me though, if out of from both your your perspective as well as with your board, what were the really uncomfortable questions that you asked yourself before you made the pivot?

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Yeah. Some of the questions included the likes of quite honestly, the pace and the input that I was contributing into work. And so, you know, I I regard myself as a a reform perfectionist in that um I had to a degree still, but no issue with putting in 150 to 200%, particularly if it's a it's a meaty problem to be solved, and I'm quite interested and into the thick of it. But there does become a depreciating point and a point to which you've got to take a little bit of a pause and recognize how am I using my time in the very finite resource of time that we have within this cycle of life, and how much is being contributed to the workfront versus how much is maybe being attributed to, you know, life outside of work, including perhaps partnership and marriage, to kids in some instances, to parenting parents, to community involvement, to supporting the next generation. And so that was a hard question and really audit and assessment that I did looking inward with respect to career. How am I showing up? How much time and investment is that versus some of the other aspects as navigating, again, changing home and personal dynamics and showing up for others and um making sure that I can do it in a fuller capacity with mental health at the forefront of that. And so that was a really tough area to scrutinize. Another area to scrutinize, really the financial aspect associated with it and the tipping point to which, you know, the next dollar provides that either excitement and or normalcy or joy and/or perhaps it's a bit fleeting because with next levels of promotions becomes the next levels of responsibilities. And so that was also just a hard area to scrutinize. So I'd say from a time perspective as well as the financial aspects. But then last but not least is just what gets you excited, those gainers and drainers with respect to energy as you close your eyes and you are with oneself as you sleep. And then when you wake up, what's going to give you that jolt, aside from discipline and having processes and rigor to be able to push you forward? And um, I think oftentimes we discount listening to some of those points of contemplation in the middle of the night or when we are rising up from bed and pushing through some of that resistance. And so it was a mix of all of that emotion.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

It is hard though, isn't it, to give up that that safety net if you don't have something to fall back on. That safety net is is a huge deal. I'd like to pivot uh at this at this point. I'd like to pivot. You have I love that you always talk about family. You bring family into your conversation right from the start, and you talk openly about your mom and your upbringing, two working parents, which is fabulous, two blended leadership styles, and navigating serious illness early in life. How did that shape the leader that you are?

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Yeah, it was a it was a fascinating experience growing up in that dynamic, particularly when you see both mom and dad um going to work each and every day, coming back and supporting, you know, siblings, and I'm the middle child as well, too, just to paint the profile of how I fit in. And I I fit much of the characteristics of the middle child. But to your question, I'd say for me, her independence became a necessity in the household that I grew up in, in that with respect to my mom's side of life, some unfortunate really tough health circumstances put her in a position to which she was home and had to leave the career side of life. And so for me, it was supporting her, it was supporting younger siblings, it was also making sure that I was prioritizing showing up for school, for extracurriculars. And hyper-independence really became a through line through my career in having a real tenacious bias for action. I gotta put this thing on my back, I gotta get it done. Yes, I will have advocates and folks cheering me on, but a bit of that safety net is something too, which I never a hundred percent was comfortable with and needed to make sure that it just always made sure that again hit the ground running. And so hyperindependence was key for me. And then also strange to think about it this way. However, there is this interesting notion of mortality, which also ties into time, which also ties into having a bias for action. And when you do see instances where perhaps you are hearing prognosises from doctors that state, this may be it, right? And it really pushes you to live in the moment, to take those chances and to take action now. And I'd say that's shown up in the ways in which I've shown up as a leader, on my aptitude to pivot with intention, and then also just my my risk threshold as well, too. So a couple of flavors for growing up in the unique household that I've grown up in that have impacted my leadership style and also have helped to paint the picture of my career journey thus far.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Thanks for sharing that with us, Dante. There's something really, really powerful about what you said around that hyperindependence and that becoming a necessity for you. I think a lot of leaders today, you know, they wear that as like a badge of honor, but it's like a silver soap because that can become isolating too. It is about realizing that and understanding when maybe you need to kind of what you need to balance it with.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Yeah, completely agree. And with that, I'd say the balancing act, um, it comes with oftentimes just having to make a decision and committing to a decision. Yes, we want to wear some of these aspects of hyperindependence as a badge of honor, but also we've got to remind ourselves to let others in. We've got to remind ourselves that it's not always us that has to make the final call. And we also don't want the hyperindependence and the ruminations or contemplations in our own mind to hold back the collective. Hey, we're not making decisions because I can't put my next foot forward because I'm factoring steps A through Z a thousand times over. And so that is a practice and an intentional action that I've got to take sometimes when I do get in that mindset. Um, and it's something to which I tell leaders all the time is you don't have to do everything on your own. And also it's it's probably not beneficial for you, for the org, and for the culture that you're seeking to build.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

In terms of being able to show up physically and fiscally for your family whilst being in the midst of corporateness, how did that tension influence your bias for action? Given that you also stated that mortality was a driver for you in terms of being in the here and now. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Yeah, for me, particularly early career, one of the things I had to push through was ensuring that I didn't let that be a barrier for career ascension, i.e. being comfortable with taking the next opportunity, which oftentimes required a little bit of a corporate relocation, which required uh taking a stretch assignment. I recall in the earlier days as one to which put myself through university and studying abroad and many of those experiences, where I would contemplate should I relocate to Northwest Arkansas, because that will put me miles away from home in a community to which I didn't have family and friends readily available. And so I would have to start from base and it would be, you know, an experience to which is fully grounded in this is the job, and I need to really cultivate that all that from scratch. And I'd inquire with my family, their comfortability with that, and I appreciate them for many reasons, but particularly in those instances where I went back and forth with them saying, yes, we've got this, planes are readily accessible, because those areas to which I was in environments where I was uncomfortable and needed to grow to become comfortable have helped my career trajectory tremensely. And I've done that multiple times, living in you know Northwest Arkansas supporting and doing all the rounds of in terms of Walmartville, to headquarter locations uh in and out of New York, to global assignments in South Africa, to living in Chicago, to other experiences leading North American, South America-related e-commerce development and learning new languages of Spanish and Portuguese and negotiating in different languages. Much of that was grounded in the likes of yes, I do want to stay present and to support the folks that are closest to me, but I don't want the physical proximity to be a barrier for career ascension. Let me make sure that we're on the same page. They say yes, I say yes, and I'm going to go full throttle on it to make sure that that risk has the reward for not only me as an individual from a career perspective, but me as an individual and taking all those diverse experiences and the financial benefits to your core question and being able to provide that back to family, provide that back to community. And so that's why I've seen all those benefits come to fruition. But you gotta get uncomfortable and grow comfortable in the discomfort.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

I love that. So true. And I think that you know, people are uncomfortable being uncomfortable. So it's easier said than done, but you really have to lean into that to find the growth, like you said. In prepping for this, you mentioned and you talked a lot about trust as a currency, and we're obsessed with this idea. And I think it is the new currency. And as you think about your board of champions, which we also love, they're not just mentors. So can you maybe share a little bit more about this idea of a board of champions?

SPEAKER_00 21:48

Totally. And so I am a reflection of so many individuals that have poured into me, whether it is through an email check in andor sponsoring me to attend conversations. Conferences andor they have been, you know, my agency partner, and we've you know gotten on together and we've shared um different job opportunities, et cetera. And so as a result of being a reflection of so many that have poured into me, it is my duty to make sure that I maintain and nurture those relationships and also pour back into others. I I call it a board of champions because going back to the likes of you know personal, excuse me, organizations that have their own board of trustees, you know, they are ones to which I can call on to have a status on what's my own strategic vision for my life, whether that is specifically in my nine to five, to how I'm thinking about family, how I'm thinking about community, how I'm thinking about resources that I'm learning and growing and learning and unlearning. And so it's an amalgamation of those that I've been to school with, you know, prior managers, prior leaders of all the different organizations, individuals to which either are like-minded and or have a very different perspective of navigating life that I've met through conferences, et cetera. I make sure that they consent to and are open to being a part of what I call this board, this personal board of directors. And I do have mechanisms that I am disciplined about to make sure that they know that I'm keeping them informed at minimum. It's quarterly check-ins, right? Via email, or perhaps a virtual call, or perhaps we get the opportunity to see each other physically. And it touches on what have I been doing, what have I been learning, what have I been unlearning, resources, whether it is podcasts, books, et cetera, things that I'm stretching into, things perhaps that I could use a second or third point of view. Um, and all that and more is how, you know, I this core tenets of how I keep them informed. And then just as much as they impart with their perspectives, you know, I keep the floor open to understand the same things back from them such that we can nurture and then expand the impact. Super, super intentional. I think it's extremely valuable and it's a it's a way of working that I picked up from some great mentors in the past. And the last but not least, with respect to a board of directors, is also just um it prepares one for being, in my opinion, working for an organization, a really strong intrapreneur. And then, if interested in pursuing, you know, founding one's organization, a really strong entrepreneur as well, because you're practicing the skills of constantly learning communication, building and networking, which are really just the best skills possible for navigating a long-term career.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

Let's call, um let's call out something real quick too, Dante. You know, when you talk about champions, not every champion is for every season, right? So how do you release people from that board without b burning bridges? Now, this I I gotta hear.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Yeah. It can be as direct as shifting the or indirect as shifting the cadence of the reach out. And so perhaps it's not on a quarterly basis, perhaps it is on an annual basis. It could also be as you are engaging with them and shifting perhaps the conversation from like professional inquiries to personal inquiries and them not budging or responding accordingly, and just being and accepting, okay, with maybe that's the limits of the engagement with said individual. But I'd say it's having and crossing that threshold of where you think they can help you. And if they can't, that's a-okay. Not everyone is meant to be in life for all particular purposes all the time. There are seasons to which certain board members are more impactful than others, as one to which, you know, when I think about and contemplating physical relocations, there are certain folks within my remit who have only done it a couple of times. And so their point of view may be one way, and that's okay. And then oftentimes, too, if they perhaps don't have a response and/or that personal experience, they re may refer me to someone that they know who does have that personal experience. And so it doesn't have to be a degree of thrash. These are individuals to which I trust and value them as people and as humans. And so I know there isn't any malice associated with maybe perhaps not going to them for all topics that I'm interested in.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Yeah. I think just how intentional you are about that really comes through. And as you said, it's like not waiting till you need them, but making sure you're keeping that cadence alive of keeping them informed. And if you have to bump that out, they're not, you know, they're not for every season, as we said. Or switch the dialogue a bit from professional, from personal to professional, professional to personal. You know, you can make those edits as you go, but it's keeping them within that ecosystem, which I think is really important. A lot of people take that for granted until it becomes important, right? Until it becomes now, I need I need those people. But I love how you're you're so proactive about it and intentional. So something you said there too, which I love the intrapreneur to entrepreneur and how you can really leverage that experience at a company to help get you ready for maybe your your own company. And I love how you talked about CVD becoming your classroom to do that. So you've obviously stepped into roles and you're writing the playbook. You didn't have the playbook. So you've built the proposition from scratch and learned how to fly the plane, as I say, as you built it. So you're making that progress really visible. So, what are those intrapreneur muscles that maybe you didn't even realize you were building at the time that suddenly became so essential when you actually crossed into entrepreneurship?

SPEAKER_00 27:49

Yeah, that's a fantastic question. I'd say some of the things that I didn't really realize that I was doing consistently, especially in environments to which things weren't A, B, and C, was being able to see the force of the trees, which includes, hey, you're hearing problems from multiple different teams, and perhaps there is ambiguity on who is to pick up the ball. And so they need a framework associated with who would be accountable, who would input and contribute. And it's not only just building said framework, but it's galvanizing and getting folks bought into that change management, which includes making sure that you're building rapport because you've got to have a relationship to persuade individuals to do things differently. And then once you do, persuade them and get alignment of them to do things differently. Ensure that you are celebrating their efforts and recognizing their efforts when there is wins or points put on the scoreboard. And that's another very, I'd say, simple yet difficult and sometimes tricky skill for individuals to get comfortable with because it requires the likes of building rapport when you know you don't necessarily have the autonomy to make sure that people do what you want them to do. You've got to make sure that you're consistent with how you are collaborating with others. And then last but not least, which I think is a culture-building exercise, which also is one to which is really fundamental in being an entrepreneur, it is celebrating those wins and those fail forwards. Oftentimes when you're doing things differently, you're going to have things that don't pan out really well. And you also want to make sure that when you are asking people to do things that are outside of their remit, that you are thanking them loudly and broadly as well. And I think that's an under-service aspect of being a leader and a critical aspect of being an entrepreneur as well. Because once you get that consistency of, hey, I've done something different, I see the impact, and I'm celebrating accordingly, they then are more receptive to continuing to input to push the org forward as a result. Um, and I've seen that manifested in again, like building teams from scratch, managing resistance to which, you know, certain general managers or country GMs wouldn't even respond to outreach. Um, and you had to fly down, take them to lunch, get into the mindset and understanding of what their realm of responsibility is, what they're excited about, get an understanding of the fears and the pain points and what would be that point of resistance, and then utilizing that intel with your own intention to support their problem and bringing them along the journey. And so it's many of those muscles that I stretch as an entrepreneur, which perhaps inadvertently inspired the entrepreneurial pathway. Because once I did make the intentional decision to pivot and I took a step back, I said, Oh, well, I've been doing this for a while. It just to, you know, call it branded differently. But I can rock out in this new space. Um so that's been my journey thus far.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

And for the women listening, Dante, who are inside these huge organizations right now, itching to build, what should they be practicing before they leap?

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Fantastic question. I'd say an insatiable curiosity for how things work, not only with your existing remit, but the secondary and tertiary remites around you. And so the interconnectivity of how things work is really helpful in preparation for the leap because you may not have may not be requested to have direct exposure and responsibility towards the teammate to your left and the teammate to your right. However, it is their experiences and skills and what they bring to the table that are going to help you when you do step out and take that leap. And so that insatiable curiosity, understanding what's out of your current purview and learning and growing and building rapport with those individuals. I'd say another key focus in preparation for a leap is practicing galvanizing people. And that could be done through employee resource groups, that could be done through a stretch assignment, that could be done through just meeting a net new individual. And uh, I'd say a connector in the fantastic women and leaders that I've worked under. Like being a connector is a fantastic skill that I've grown from working underneath their tutelage. And I'd say that it's another avenue that I would intentionally practice in preparation for a leap is how are you growing? How are you galvanizing people? And then going back to the first point, how are you understanding the ecosystem of those around you so that you are ready for that leap?

SPEAKER_02 32:40

That's a fascinating insight. Thank you. Thanks for looking by, ladies and gentlemen. We're gonna pivot slightly where you talk about, you've talked about consistently using proximity to power to widen that door from an actors at Unilever to Braven, AEF, Halcyon, and Board Service. What feels different about mentoring and developing early career talent now, especially post-COVID, mid-AI panic, and during a moment where DEI commitments are being quietly walked back? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

I'd say what I'm seeing and experiencing as different for being an ally and showing up for the next generation of leaders is uh, to your point, how explicit one can be with the intention to support or perhaps underserved communities. And so there is a balancing act that one has to navigate by way of adjustments that have happened within the context of the US over the last couple of years. And that doesn't mean that we don't do the work to ensure that we are having a diverse set of voices and experiences at the table and nurturing them. It just adjusts the ways in which we extend our hands to ensure that we know that they are here and then making sure that they are supported in those rims where they don't necessarily have the proximity in this current moment. And so for me, it's done through much like the organizations that you've summarized, through being a mentor for organizations like Braven who facilitate an environment and a lot of rich resources, including mock interview training for the students within their pipeline, to a passion of mine, and I see myself in a future iteration as a professor, um, but is really being and getting more ingrained within the classroom experience through guest lecturing and bringing the call it real-world application and or experiences of being in the field to supplement their curriculum and engaging in that QA because it's not just, hey, I've built brands, which ties to you know what you read in chapter five, but it's how I navigated these systems in my unique identity and some of the ways in which I need to flex differently to ensure that I am heard, to ensure that what I'm offering up is perceived as valuable, and that I can meet people around to take a plan on a page and drive it to action. And it's those intangibles where I found it really critical that I need to be more upfront and more direct in person and or virtually with these other orgs and recognizing that there is a difference in what career development and support looks like for underrepresented uh peoples in in today's climate.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

I mean, that is true allyship. It's not performative, not loud, but again, you're the throughput for me is how intentional you are and precise, and and I love that. And you're so you're so eloquent too, such a soothing voice.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

I appreciate it. I appreciate it. And again, bear with me with the the allergies of it all. And and thank you for recognizing that you know, not performative. I I truly feel, and and and I said it prior that I am a represent representative of so many people that have took a bet on me, that have seen me. And you know, I was a bit of a shy kid and um in the background and to a flipping point in mid-teenage. And so folks may not perceive that, but it is because there were either high school counselors and or those in universities and in the corporate environment that recognize my desire and hunger to support and to learn and to input the sweat equity. And so it is truly my duty to ensure that I'm being a servant leader to those that are up and coming, and particularly those that may not have the direct access to said mentorship structures that had them on occur, that I was afforded like true visibility. Hey, this is for me. I need to make sure that I'm visible and there for said folks. And so honestly, it's like my alma mater's byline is educate for service, and and that's precisely what I seek to do as a leader.

SPEAKER_02 36:59

Amazing. And Dante, as someone who's been in the room with you multiple times when we were working on projects together, you have I it shocks me that you said you were shy because you have always been so incredibly intentional, so inclusive, and so collaborative with every single person in that room, whether virtual or physical, you have always been a force that that brings people together, not loudly, not aggressively, just quiet warmth and inclusion that you don't realize until you actually think about it. And that is your one of your biggest superpowers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:46

Thank you. I received that. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

All right, we're gonna pivot to a lightning round, have a little fun. So we're gonna ask you some questions. You want to hear what comes first to your mind, don't overthink it. So, and and short. So, what's a belief you had to unlearn?

SPEAKER_00 38:01

Everything needs to be figured out by X time. Time is flexible, it is A-OK. I definitely needed to continue to unlearn that.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

Love it. A risk you'd take again in a heartbeat.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

I'd say all of my corporate relocations I would do again. And then particularly the pivot that I orchestrated from operating and working on the brand side of the commerce field to the agency side. I have fundamentally, as a person, as a leader, as an empathetic leader for said vendor partners, etc., have grown tremendously. And so I do that again at a heartbeat.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Yeah, it's always great to have that perspective to walk in their shoes, right? And bring that somewhere with you. Um yeah, how about a skill commerce leaders underestimate?

SPEAKER_00 38:46

I'd say it's a soft or what I like to call essential skills of storytelling. And so now more than ever, within the commerce landscape, by way of the democratization of AI tools to data suites, to the scrutiny of KPIs and even just the methodologies associated with determining what is incremental ROAS and incremental sales or not, the ability by way of the access to so many different data suites, the ability to distinctly distill down what is the goal, what am I doing about it, and how am I informing or optimizing andor letting folks know what I'm doing about it on X, Y, Z cadence, such that there's assurances that we are reacting accordingly at each storytelling. That is a skill that commerce leaders should continue to finesse. Um, and again, easier said than done, but that I'd say is um a core one.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

Second that. And what about a habit that grounds you during uncertainty?

SPEAKER_00 39:49

I'm a big proponent of ensuring that both mental and physical flexibility and exercise are there. And so for me, I've been practicing hot yoga for quite some time, and so that's extremely helpful for me, as well as meditation. I think that's why folks really take a liking into the likes of my calm confidence and the ability to listen, distill, understand, and act accordingly. Um, in a way in that in which there isn't, you know, this this jolt of and perhaps this jolt of let's just do it now. So those are the the activities that I do regularly and it keeps me at ease.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

I feel like it's working because I'm like more calm going through this conversation with you and hearing how you talk. It's working. Keep it going. So much my favorite question to ask. Yes, everyone, what's your go-to hype song gets you going before big?

SPEAKER_00 40:40

So I I don't even know the name or how to pronounce the name of the band, but the song is called Maria Tambian, and it is just like a band rocking out primarily guitar. It's so like funky. I'm jamming in the car, it's hot. Like it gets me in a flow and a vibe. Think of it, and when I I'll share with you the link to the song. Imagine yourself listening to the song, walking down the street in New York City, sun's up in the sky, you feel like you look good because you do look good both physically and mentally, and you're just taking life all in, and you have that backtrack. It confidence boost. I'm ready to take over the world. And so that's the song.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

I love how you just like put us in that environment.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

Like my hair's gotta set the scene. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Particularly because spring is a coming, and and yeah, I want to walk down the street and and look and feel good. And so um use that song as the backtrack.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

All right, we're you have to send us the link and we'll add it to our Spotify playlist for SheCommerce. All right. Well, it's been such an incredible conversation. I hate to see it end. One thing we want to leave our our listeners with if you could give them permission to begin again. This is our theme for spring, right? New beginnings, spring cleaning. Without burning everything down, what would you say to them?

SPEAKER_00 42:01

Without burning everything down, permission to begin again. Permission to begin again? I'd say do it. I'd say most decisions in life are not fatal. And as a result, it is a-okay to reinvent oneself, to wake up with the blessing of having the opportunity to wake up and to deliver another day and to start something new, to reassess and adjust one's opinions and perhaps rhythms and diff disciplines and habits. And it doesn't have to be a monumental, hey, I am dyeing my hair towards I am on this rigorous diet. It can be a micro change to get you into the habit of adjusting one's lifestyle and perception of career and/or how you want to show up as you know, a parent, etc. And so I'd employ folks to remember that most decisions in life truly are not fatal, and that a change does not have to be you completely turning over a huge chapter. It can be a page because a page then becomes 10, and then 10 becomes a chapter, and then chapter becomes a book, but you don't need to start by completely, you know, writing a new book, if you will.

SPEAKER_02 43:11

I love that. Oh my god, I love that. I absolutely love that. My this is a this is a t-shirt moment. Most decisions in life are not fatal.

SPEAKER_03 43:21

Oh my draw.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

It's so real.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

It's true though.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

Yeah, and once we really like settle into that, it makes everything okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

And not every decision has to be permanent, right? You can make another decision to overturn the first decision, you know, if it doesn't work. So it's a good reminder.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

Ladies and gentlemen, this is why we do She Commerce. Because commerce just isn't about growth. It's about it's about who gets to grow, how, and with support.

SPEAKER_01 43:49

And with every episode of She Commerce, we're building our growing network of allies and female and male leaders and advocates. So, Dante, will you take the pledge with us? To pay it forward, you're already doing it. Continue to amplify women's voices and help shape the future of commerce.

SPEAKER_00 44:05

All day, every day. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

Amazing. You are now officially part of the sisterhood.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

Boom. Come on, sisters. Let's rock.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

Ladies and gentlemen, bold brands, fierce women, one sisterhood.