11 Executive Functioning with Ashley Morck

In this episode, Matt speaks with educational therapist and consultant Ashley Morck, who shares insights into the field of educational therapy and her focus on executive functioning supports for families and students. These skills can help children plan, stay organized, and follow through on tasks.

Ashley emphasizes a strengths-based approach, supporting each child in ways that build independence and confidence across a variety of environments. She also shares simple, practical tools that parents can use at home to better support their child’s social-emotional growth.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Summit Emotional Health Podcast. I'm Dr. Matt Bitsko, a licensed clinical psychologist and the founder and CEO of Summit Emotional Health. This series explores what we call our non-negotiables. These are the key concepts, interventions, and approaches that guide how we understand and practice psychotherapy. In each episode, I sit down with one of our experienced clinicians to explore one of their favorite theories or strategies. Our hope is this will give you an opportunity to discover practical tools and insights for yourself and your family. Today I got to sit down with Ashley Mork, who is an educational therapist at Summit Emotional Health. Ashley works with young children and their families who are age preschool through middle school with issues related to attention, organization, and a variety of learning disabilities. Today Ashley leads our conversation on the topic of educational therapy, but specifically executive functioning. She gives several examples as far as some of the challenges that children and families have in navigating not only daily organization, but the many different tasks of the educational life of our children. So without any further delay, please enjoy this episode of A Summit Non-Negotiable. Today I get to speak with Ashley Mork, who's an educational therapist at Summit Emotional Health, and has been with us now for not quite a year, but she's kind of a new person here. And we get to hear about what she does, how she does it. Ashley, can you take it from there? Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you found your way here to Summit Emotional Health?

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Sure. Thanks for having me. So, like you said, Matt, I am the educational therapist as well as certified literacy and dyslexia interventionist here at Summit. I also have a master's in teaching and a background in English as a second language and social emotional learning. I love working with children. My primary age group that I work with is the pre-K, JK through sixth grade, so really the four to five-year-old through 12-year-olds at this point. And I work a lot on literacy intervention as well as executive functioning supports for families and students.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

There you go. Today we're going to talk about not only what is educational therapy, but we'll talk about executive functioning. But before you dive in, any other background, like tell us a little bit about your career path, what you studied, how you found your way.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Sure. So I took a little bit of a different path. Um, I went to UVA undergrad, um, had actually studied government political science, then I taught in a private school. I'd always thought I wanted to teach. I just wasn't quite sure if I wanted to have a different background and try to learn um other things along the way, which has actually proven to be really valuable to have a lot of different perspectives. And then I went back to grad school at EVA and got my master's and English as a second language endorsement. Um, after that, I spent a number of years teaching, and I believe that that background working in the classroom setting has been really, really beneficial to my work now. And then for the past several years, I've been working with students one-on-one. What sort of led me to this point in time is that as I've been working with children, both in graduate school, in the classroom and in one-on-one, I notice that a lot of children benefit from interventions, not just in terms of providing supports for what they need to learn, but also how they are learning. Um, and that really noticing the social emotional piece and helping them become more resilient and grow in those ways will ultimately help them in all aspects of their life and academically.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

You got it. I gotta believe, like you said, that that street cred with you, not only in your training, but being a teacher, not only in a in a private, was it also public schools?

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Yes, actually, most of my time was in public schools. I've been in both, though.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

So you've been in different environments, you've been the teacher, right, for many, many years. That's your knowledge base there. It's not just your undergrad and you and then your grad and then as an individual consultant. So that got has to help not only when you're working with a child, when you're working with a family, but that helps you understand how to weed this context in, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Yes, absolutely. Yes. I am really passionate about building relationships with families as well. And I've learned that over time that uh the more rapport you can and more positive relationship you can build that's genuine with your client and their family, ultimately client is going to make more progress.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

You got it. When when Summit started now just over 10 years ago, and we do have, you know, about 60% of our clientele are kids in any kind of school setting, you know, because of my history working at the Children's House of Richmond, Alma Morgan was an educational consultant down there. She she helped out and still is here at Summit. I'm so biased and I'm so I know that we need this. We need an educational consultant and educational therapist with the skill sets you have. Because if you're working with kids or families with mental health issues, you know, it really doesn't matter what they are, we need someone like you because it's gonna show up in the school setting. It's gonna show up in their learning, it's gonna show up in their peer group and in the family setting. So tell us a little bit about educational therapists and the educational therapy field, because it's it's very, very similar to some of what other people might think as far as educational consultant. But let us know what the flavor of that training is.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Absolutely. So I like to think of educational therapy really focused on the whole child. And I think I mentioned a little bit earlier, focusing on both what the child might need to learn, what gaps are there, but then also perhaps even more so, the how they're getting there and how their brain works. So I like to use the analogy of a house. So if you look at your house or you go into someone's house and there's some marks on the wall, they need one of their walls or rooms to be repainted, perhaps a couple of windows to be replaced. Um, but then also there's foundation issues in the bottom of the house. If you repaint the house and you get a couple of new windows, that is helpful, but ultimately the underlying foundation issues are still there. So, similarly, to take that metaphor over to a child, if they are having phonological awareness gaps or reading comprehension, whatever it might be, those things definitely can be addressed in terms of content and should be. But ultimately, we also need to look at is there anything underlying with how they're learning, which also goes into the a lot of the executive functioning with um their sustained attention, their working memory, their organization skills, planning, all of those things. Some students might need to focus just on those pieces and not so much the what, or vice versa, but really looking at that whole child and then ultimately seeing those social emotional benefits because you're looking at the whole child and then seeing the benefits across the board beyond just school.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Got it. And that's so that's a wonderful example. And that might be stereotypically with a child with ADHD and how they interact and perceive the world in the classroom and the work they're doing. Give give folks a little bit of a background as far as some of the more specific learning disabilities that you want might either be aware of and how you might approach that.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

So you mentioned one already, if a student has ADHD. That's a common one I see children coming wanting some executive functioning supports. Um, they might also, I frequently work with students with dyslexia. Additionally, some students um have not yet gone through the educational evaluation process or they're waiting, and and they might come see me in the interim while they're waiting and figuring all that out. Um, so they may have a formal diagnosis or they might still be in the process of figuring that out. Um, and educational therapy, what makes it really unique is it's highly individualized as opposed to a specific program, if you will. And so I really take time, especially at that initial phone call and initial consult of getting to know the family and getting to know their child. I also find it really beneficial to find their strengths because I want to be aware of them, but I also want the child to be aware of their own strengths. We don't want to ignore gaps, we definitely want to address them, but we also want to make them aware of their strengths and how they can use those to their benefit.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

The bulk of our content today is going to be about executive functioning, but that it's not necessarily a buzzword, but it's just a term that we throw around. Let us know like a baseline, like understanding of a definition so we can all start from the same place on what that term even is.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Sure, sure. Like you said, I think we we throw it around a lot. I think either um parents might hear it on a get receive a child's report card or in school and hear they need to work on executive functioning and kind of have an idea, but not exactly, or vice versa. Parents might hear, oh, my child needs to work on paying attention or organization, but not realize that there's a whole bunch of other things that might be coming into play, um, that these aren't necessarily um things that are happening in isolation. And so to give um a client-friendly definition, I kind of going back to an analogy, I like to think of executive functioning as the manager in your brain. And um, it's really taking all that you know and helping you to be able to organize, to plan, not just to plan, but to prioritize what to do when, to set goals and to be aware of what different goals are, short-term, long-term goals, um, to decide how you're going to achieve those goals. The metacognition piece of thinking about your thinking and awareness while you're doing things, um, related to that, the cognitive flexibility in terms of being able to shift gears if you need to or think about things in different ways, your working memory, all of those things come into play. And so when I meet with a child, I really like to have an initial conversation with the parents and then with the child, sort of a semi-structured interview, if you will, to find out what are the areas we need to focus on and what are their strengths.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

So it's the manager, it's the way we would think about that. For one second, just re-explain what metacognition is, because that is a very fancy word, but it's really important in the work you do and even some of the clinical work that we do, whether it's with a child or anything else.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Um, I think one of the most practical ways to think about it is thinking about your thinking, a self-awareness, if you will. Frequently, one of the most common things I have is parents or students will come in and say, they know all of this, but then when they go to apply it, they're not showing what they know, or they're they're just rushing, or maybe you just think your child doesn't care. And a lot of times it's not that. They're not taking the time, maybe because not that they don't want to, but they don't have the skills to think about their thinking. So for example, um, if a child is reading a passage and answering questions, you can be a passive reader and just read through and then go through the questions, or you can be a very active reader and pause and do a quick sketch, pause through part way through, mentally retell yourself what you read. You can ask yourself, is this a green light, a red light, a yellow light, green? I've got this. I'm aware of what I'm reading, keep going. Yellow, let me go back through, reread this. Red, I really need to reset this. I'm confused. Um and so really thinking about what you're doing and being present in the moment as you're doing that. Um, maybe after a task, your child gives themselves a rating and not a rating, how well did I do this necessarily, but how did I think about this? Could I come up with multiple solutions to one problem? Um, can I think about this from a different perspective? Those kinds of deeper, higher level thinking skills.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

But the way you say it there and the way you might train not only the family, the parents, but actually the child, like you can have a seven or eight-year-old and you're gonna say it in maybe different ways, but I don't care how old the kid is, they want a sense of agency, they want autonomy. If you're gonna teach them ways to be like, how did that reading comprehension go? Did you picture it? Did you realize you were getting a little bit nervous? And that's giving them a lot of agency and confidence over time. And so you can do that with kids that age, correct?

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Absolutely. Honestly, even younger than that, I've really liked to, in some of my first intervention sessions, really talk about the brain and the neuroplasticity and how your brain, some kids think like, oh, I'm I'm born this smart, which is, you know, we can work and we can change your brain. And I really like to talk a lot about growth mindset. Um, and from a very young age, you can reframe the language around task and how they think about things and how we embrace mistakes. And mistakes are not bad, they're learning opportunities. Um, and how we can think about challenges and hard tasks and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

So I I think the parents out there can see how your work and your expertise kind of feathers very nicely to some of the clinical work we're doing. If someone's coming in with some anxiety and some ADHD symptoms, but it's presenting uh it used to just be in the home, but now it's in the school. This work you're doing and the way to connect there is really a great complement with the other usual kind of clinical work that we do.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Yes. So I really love working in this setting. I think it's what makes Summit really unique in that we have a lot of different providers offering different skill sets, and we can also work as a team in that way.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

So we know what executive function is. You've you've given us a great background. Do you have a case example? Just a very general kind of thing about how kids or families find you and your initial approach that you would take.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Absolutely. Typically, parents might find me either from if they come here or come elsewhere and receive an educational evaluation. And they think, okay, now I have this diagnosis or this information, what's next? So I like to think about coming down to my office almost as a continuity of care option. Sometimes students will already be working with another therapist, for example, a speech language pathologist or someone else. Um, I am always happy with parent permission, of course, to consult with teachers, um counselors at schools, their speech therapists, so that we can be a team. Um, so typically they will find me. I will then have an initial phone consult. Just I think it's really important to get to know it, make sure we're a good fit. And then we have a console in the office, and I typically meet with parents first and do a semi-structured interview to get to know your family, um, and then meet with the child if um some informal assessments are appropriate. For example, if there's a literacy gap or something there, we can conduct those and then I make a plan and share it with the families, and then I begin my work with the family. Um, and I always try every single session to follow up with parents to provide them both um an overview of highlights of what we've done, but some optional at-home suggestions that are meaningful so that we can really bridge that. I know at the especially, you know, a 10-year-old comes home. What did you do? Not sure. It was fine. So I really like to provide that communication so parents know what's going on. Um, because I think communication is key. Um, and then I'm always happy and encourage us to have periodic meetings to talk about progress, other things that are coming up in school, any concerns, things like that.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

And this is this one of these things where you'll be working, of course, mostly with a child, but then you might bring the parents in for a little bit of that. I mean, so they're gonna be getting some education on the way as well, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Yes, exactly. So I know every parent's schedule is different and availability. So I really try to leave that up to the individual family and work with them in the best way that works for them. Um, so sometimes I might do an entire parent session, and then the next time is all the child, sometimes I'll work with a child for the bulk of the session and then the parent, sometimes we're all in there together. That really goes back to um the individual needs of the family and how educational therapy is unique and that you meet them where they are. Um and example, if a student comes in and the family says, okay, my child has ADHD, they also have dyslexia, we need help. I don't know exactly what we need. How can you help us? Like I said, we would do that informal, structured interviews, some assessments, make a plan. And then as far as examples of interventions, we might start typically with their strengths. So let's say they are pretty organized. A lot of times I'll see children that are organized because they have the scaffolds in place at school, especially at a young age. But then when they have, as they get into the upper grades or they're in a place and they have to apply these skills independently, is where we see the executive functioning gaps. Maybe they weren't actually there, maybe they just had the scaffolds in place. So really, I will give them some skills so that they can implement those independently. And ultimately, as they get into the older grades and middle school and they're having fewer scaffolds, they will have those skills independently.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

And is that something where you might even kind of do it proactively? Like you're even as things are going better, but you know what grade they're in, and you probably know what the next steps will be. It's not all just about a catch up, right? I mean, that's probably what has to happen. But then later on, you're gonna be like, hey, just before we finish up our work, it looks like over the next six months or next fall, you might have to deal with this. So let's kind of focus on that as well.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Absolutely. Sometimes I'll have um a client and they've been seeing me just for example, weekly, and then we'll gradually um shift to bi-weekly and then perhaps even monthly check-ins. Um, or perhaps they come back at a time if they have a large project and they need some help, for example, backwards planning and figuring out how to get through that. Maybe they have a couple of drop-in sessions for that, or as they transition um to middle school, for example, or from lower school to upper school grades, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

So let's let's go right in. I'm sure the listener loves the tips and tricks, right? We always do something like that because it just brings it out there. Take a minute to give us a couple, like one or two kind of tips and tricks, not because you're giving away the magic in your bag. Just give us an example or two of like a tip and trick that you might do.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Absolutely. Um, one of my favorites is the three-pile technique for organization, um, because it's very tangible and also because it's applicable to so many different areas of life. So if you are the parent that has your child's backpack come home and may or may not have a food wrapper, who knows what, in their old paper, something they completed, forgot to turn in, something came home, forgot to get signed, this would be for you. And maybe this is a skill that your child's really successful with in one area, like their backpacks neat, but they're binders or wreck, whatever it might be. Um, what you're going to do is you're going to get everything out and put it into three piles. So the first pile would be things that just don't belong there, and you either want to throw them in the trash, discard them, or donate them because you have extras. And you can get into deeper questions there, such as if you're deciding whether you want to get rid of it or not. Have I used this in the last year? Is this bringing me value? All those things. Um, that will be dependent upon the age, what kind of questions you want to get into. The second pile would be these I want to keep. Um, for example, the child comes home with three snacks that hopefully aren't open and haven't expired. Uh, I want to keep these, but these are going to go in the pantry. They don't need to sit here. Or, you know, the um stuffed animal and that doesn't that belongs back in your room. And then I want to the third and final pile, I want to keep this, and this is going to go back into my backpack or whatever area you're organizing. And then go through one pile at a time: the donate, get rid of pile, the pile that goes elsewhere, and then the pile that goes back in. And when you're putting it back in, decide where you're putting it and why you're putting it, which really ties back into that planning piece and that metacognitive piece of thinking about, okay, I'm putting this here. Why am I putting this here? Um, and then weekly having a chart. Um, frequently I'll I provide charts for parents so that they can, you know, have a visual. Have your child, whether it's every Monday or every Friday, whatever makes sense for your family, go through their backpack or their binder or whatever, their room, their desk using this three-pile strategy. Eventually, maybe it's monthly. Eventually, maybe it becomes automatic and they just are using this on their own. And a reason I really like this is it's quick, it's simple, it works for my youngest clients through my older clients. And we can all benefit, whether it's, you know, cleaning out your car or cleaning out, you know, your binder, your room, your desk, any of those things. Um, so that's a quick organization tip. And I like I said, I like it because it ties in some other skills as well.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

That's that's right for any kind of jokes that I could make about myself or if my wife's listening, she could be like, okay, Matt, you're gonna do the three-pile trick at home and you're gonna do that, and I need to do it here at the office. And but but that it sounds to me that's fundamental to like um yes, sometimes it is that process, and people either don't know what to do, they don't know why they're doing it, they don't know how to do it, right? Um but even kids all across different ages, from the emotional, you know, when I work with kids with the emotional health, it's like we're doing things differently. I'm gonna show you sometimes how or why. And then the the two words I usually use is you know, you're not gonna be like, Super relaxed or comfortable. We're trying to get you more comfortable and confident while you're doing these tasks.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

So that's got to be an outcome that they're getting, the family's getting. And then whether you're six years old or 12 years old, all of a sudden the whole experience of coming home in the backpack or just being organized and about it it becomes something they're more comfortable, more confident, more autonomous with. And that that just has to have benefits that we can't even really measure.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Absolutely. And I think that parents will find themselves not having to say as often, clean up or focus, or pay attention, because I think we all have good intentions. I'm a parent too and have said things like that, but it's not specific. And a lot of times it'll seem as though the child is avoiding paying attention or avoiding maybe, oh, they won't ever do their homework when really they just need task initiation supports or sustain how to sustain their attention. So it'll alleviate some of the nagging, if you will, at home.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Yeah. So this is, you know, that's a that's a great example that's transferable to almost anybody. But again, it goes back to your training because yes, you can do this with someone who just needs a little bit of a tune-up. But if you have someone with dyslexia, if you have someone with different kinds of learning disabilities, you know, because of your background, this this is really where the juice is for someone like you, because you could look at this and instead of being like, yes, you know, the parents might have been like, we really want them to do this. And you might be like, well, it's not gonna be as easy just as their friend or the sibling who might have had an easier time doing this, this, or this, not just personality-wise. Right, right. But depending on what their skills, strengths are, their relative deficits are, you're gonna be the kind of whisperer who can kind of explain how to get different steps to these different tasks.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Right, exactly. And the benefits. I think the children want to see the benefits. They want to know the why and the how. And once you can explain that to them in a child-appropriate way, I think they're more likely to buy into the toolbox. I always tell kids I'm giving them tools for their toolbox. Um, and they need to decide for themselves what benefits them and which ones they're gonna pull out at which time. Because I ultimately want them to leave here and take that toolbox with them and use it long term.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

You got it. Thank you. That that's a great segue. I mean, that's this whole series that we're doing is is called the non-negotiables, right? And this is for an adult in therapy. This is really a kid in the academic or the emotional setting. You're you're teaching them things or the family things to kind of try out. If they work, absolutely use it. If they don't, cast it aside. Exactly. Um, let me back up before we finish up. Is so you did a wonderful job of saying what educational therapy or a therapist is, what executive functioning can be. Um, we even know some of your background. What was there any specific reason why you really got into this when in your own reason about why this kind of either clicked with you and you really wanted to, you know, know that this was something that was your calling?

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Sure. So as I've worked with children, like I said, in various settings, whether that's one-on-one or in a classroom setting, something I notice is that children, when they receive the right support for them, whatever that might be, they can benefit not only academically, but also in socially, emotionally in terms of their confidence, their resilience. And like you mentioned earlier, you're gonna see those benefits in different settings in home and school and things like that. And I really saw a need from parents and from children that needed both the what and the how supports. And maybe they were getting results or information and being at a loss of what do I do next? How do I get this help and what is this help that I need? And really focusing on the whole child while really giving tangible tools that people can use and they're going to see the benefits across the board. And so when I saw that, that's what drove me to this field.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

And then here's the final question we have is so what is it? How did you come about it? Why is it important to you? And then the other one is, you know, why should the listener, why should the parent really consider this?

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Sure. Um, I would say the first thing is as far as the tools, I think we talked about this earlier. It doesn't hurt to try a tool. Maybe you try it once, if it's the three-pile technique or whatever it may be and it doesn't work for you, that's okay. Maybe you try it once and you need to try it a few more times to make it a habit that you do like. Um, but it's not going to hurt anything by trying that. So as far as that specific non-negotiable, as far as potentially having a consult, whether that's with me or another provider, whoever that may be, if you are wondering, I notice my child needs help in some of these areas, the organization, the planning, um, the task initiation, I know, and or I notice my child has some gaps in XYZ area, but I don't really exactly know what they need. I think it can't hurt to just have a consult with someone. Um, like I said, I offer a brief phone consult. And then if people want to come in to have an initial meeting, because I do think it's really important that you make sure that your provider is a good fit for you. So I think having that initial meeting can be really beneficial just to learn about what options are out there and what your child's strengths are as well, so that they can be aware of that. Because I think often we notice the gaps, but it's really, really important that we also notice the children's strengths. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

And that, you know, there's a little bit of a hint there as far as, you know, it's turning into a conflict. It's it's getting harder, and I don't know why as the parent, I don't know how to support. So I believe we should have high standards as far as what the appropriate amount of conflict within the household should be. So let's figure out a way to kind of address what's going on. My answer to that as we're sitting here having this conversation, so this doesn't happen once they're in my room for therapy, but they'll say, How do I know when it's time for my kid to go talk to someone? Right. And and the best answer I've ever been able to come up to really come up with is hey, you know, there's basically three broad realms of life for kids. There's the home environment, there's a school environment, and then the whole like community environment. So if they're having struggles at home, like that's where we learn stuff. You we don't love hearing that, but but everything's great at school and everything's great within the community, that's great. But when it starts to seep into the second or third realm is when it's kind of like, hey, I think we might need, I don't know who it is. But to your point and what you do, these kids and families are usually having problems not only in the home environment because there's just some conflict. Um, but now they're having problems within the school setting.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

And and doing something like these interventions, it just reverses that. It it really kind of helps with you know cleaning up with what can happen at school with some of those um structures, and it also helps the home environment.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Absolutely, absolutely. And and ultimately the child and their confidence.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

You got it.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

So every concentric circle. We always love concentric circles. There you go. It's all right there. So that that makes sense perfectly. Um, Ashley, I can't thank you much so much for being here. We're talking about other ways that we could have maybe have you back on for some longer in depth stuff. So I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

Sounds great. Thank you for your time.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

As always, thank you for tuning in to this week's episode. If you enjoyed the conversation, be sure to follow the podcast so you never miss an episode. We appreciate you being part of the Summit Emotional Health community, and we'll see you next time.