Summer Series with Dr. Meghan Lawson: Balancing Play, Rest, Growth, and Connection

In this episode of our Summer Series, Matt sits with Dr. Meghan Lawson. Throughout the series, we’ll explore how to make the most out of summer vacations, camps, and activities while navigating the seasonal transition with our kiddos in a way that feels smooth and manageable. In this conversation, Meghan shares some of her takeaways from The Anxious Generation and talks through questions many parents have about technology and screen time. 

Materials Mentioned:

Book

The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt:

https://www.anxiousgeneration.com/book

Take Action: Parent Templates

https://www.anxiousgeneration.com/take-action/parent

'The Anxious Generation' Practical Guidelines Handout

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTrqfcjckfbqIzCMDIirnmTvLpl9gnRRa1eNVHzN0JqWyZWo1lQLMkppet6IQzkjIhxK8mu9R-RNW5V/pub

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to the Summit Emotional Health Podcast. I'm Dr. Matt Bitsko, a licensed clinical psychologist and the founder and CEO of Summit Emotional Health. We are excited to launch a new summer series where we will meet with a variety of our child and family clinicians to explore how to make the most of the upcoming summer vacations and successfully navigate this seasonal transition with ease. Our focus will be on helping families take advantage of the many opportunities Summer provides for engaging with our children. The main theme for these episodes will be on how to play, rest, grow, and connect with our children. These approaches and techniques will focus on preschoolers through elementary school. However, some of the approaches can be adjusted for middle schoolers as well. I'd like to thank our wonderful clinicians for sharing their time and insights on these very important topics. This series will feature Dr. Bryn Moore, Dr. Megan Lawson, Teresa Vosson, and Ashley Moore. So without any further delay, please enjoy this episode of the Summit Emotional Health Podcast. Today I got to sit down with Dr. Megan Lawson, a licensed clinical psychologist at Summit Emotional Health. Meg works with young children through young adults and their families with issues such as anxiety, depression, ADHD, and autism spectrum disorders. She is also a member of our talented psychological assessment team and conducts educational, intellectual, and developmental evaluations. Today, Meg continues our conversation on how our kids and families transition into the summer months while addressing the main themes of how to play, rest, grow, and connect with our children. Meg is Summit's resident expert on how to handle technology with our children and will guide us through some wonderful approaches of her own and also those from the transformative recent book, The Anxious Generation. So, Meg, could you just take a second and tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do here at Summit?

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Sure. So yeah, I'm a psychologist who works with kids as young as three, really. Through young adulthood, I engage in therapy for all different reasons. I would say the top are anxiety, depression, ADHD, and autism. I also conduct psychological assessments, including educational, intellectual, and developmental evaluations.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Thank you so much. And, you know, you and I, like we said, we've given a lot of talks on this. We've even run a book club here at Summit for this. Uh we're gonna talk about, you're gonna, you know, rub it in a little bit, you're gonna tell us about your relationship with Dr. Haidt. Um, but tell us a little bit about what you want to address today and our overall approach.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Yes. So um, as he mentioned, I'm a big fan of Dr. Haidt. I um I worked with him at UVA. He was my mentor when he was studying positive moral emotions. I kind of just became a big fan because of the way he thought, and especially the way he thought about um what's important in life and kind of how to live by values. And I think right now, especially, you know, I have three kids of my own. I'm going through this transition to summer myself. Uh, I was laughing with you, Matt, because I've canceled this podcast twice because of childcare issues. So I would like to discuss how we can help kids thrive and also keep our sanity as parents. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

And especially as it relates to technology, when we're giving them access to it, what we're giving them access to. So again, really, really big topic. But I love with your expertise with this, Meg. I think you're going to be able to walk, especially some parents with two or three kids this age, as far as how you do it, because this has been a theory to you, but now you have to learn what to put in practice or what not to put in practice.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Exactly. Yes. I'm living in real time.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

You got it. So tell us a little bit about technology and what that even means with, you know, um, four or five, six-year-olds or even like the elementary school age, what especially when the transition and the lever pools to summer.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

So, I mean, I think at a young age like that, parents are just trying to kind of survive the day, honestly. Like, how am I gonna get through getting them to do something while I make lunch? How am I going to take a phone call while they're asking me a million questions? So the go-to is to put on a screen just to like have childcare for those few seconds. I think, you know, ages five to really, I would say even nine or ten, like it's like the amount of questions you get is insane in a day. And so, or like the complaints about being bored or the repeated asking for technology, you know, once they've had a little dose of it. So I think the the big things that parents struggle with at those ages are like, do I um, you know, do I give them iPads, do I give them video games, how much of these things can I give? And I like to pull from anxious generation when thinking about those things because sometimes as parents, we need a why. Like, okay, I know that we shouldn't allow them full reign and full access all day, but why? Like, why are we doing this? Because it's so easy.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

And we need help.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

So that's very clearly the statement of the problem. And that's why there's a parent who clicked on this and is listening to this. So they would agree fully that is the statement of the problem. But keep keep going there as far as this book, the overall approach, which starts to explain the why.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Yeah. So Jonathan Haidt wrote a book called The Anxious Generation, and it's an exploration into how there's been a major shift in childhood, um, both environments and experiences that have basically contributed to this epidemic in anxiety and depression in kids. Prior to iPhones, there really wasn't a lot of child mental health issues. And that's hard for us to believe because they've been around for what feels like for forever. But his two major claims in the book are that around the 1990s, 80s, 90s, um, we started watching the news more. Parents started watching the news more, they started getting overprotective because they worried about kidnappings and honestly things that don't really happen as much as we think they do based on the news, right? But they would they were worried about these things, so they wanted to protect their kids more. They didn't let them explore as much and take risks, right? Well, while that was happening, a technology was advancing and you know, enter the iPhone. And basically what we have now is over protection of kids in the real world. Like, no, you can't go outside and ride your bike, you might get hit by a car. Um, and under protection of them in the virtual world. Like, here's your iPad, have at it, you know, no limits, no idea what the kid might be watching, but they're safe in their house. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

And that's where um you guys can't see us, but this is a nice conversation back and forth because I'm probably the generation above you. I've got probably 15 or 20 years on you. I was the guy who, when I was in late elementary school, middle school, all of a sudden those pictures started coming up on the milk cartons and the missing show came up, and everything else started. So, you know, the first part of my childhood was very much, you know, just get out in the woods and don't come back till it's dark and everything else. And you know, so so I lived that and I got to see this. And then also when I started to become a psychologist, the iPhone's been driving for like a year now. It's like 17, 17 and a half or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

And I just want to get back to one of the points you said, with you know, I and I was having a talk with a friend of mine about this, you know, mental health, especially like moderate to severe mental health in childhood used to be rare. Like that's just a fact. And like I the first 10 years of my mental health career, that was the fact, and that's why early diagnosis, early intervention, we really needed to try to really be there and tap in to this very small cohort of kids. Right. So I've been witness to it in now my adult life, and as I've raised my three kids, which are now in their 20s, right? So just to see this, like there really is this piece as far as like, and we've been able to see, and and especially section one of Dr. Height's book, he explains in a lot of charts. You can't really listen to that when you gotta kind of open it up and look at it. But he really outlines like what has been going on, and that the the end, the overall number of kids, right families that are struggling with this is just undeniable.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Yeah, well, you know, what's interesting about that, Matt, is that I graduated from college in 2010. So that was when, so I had a flip phone in college, right? Thank God. And it was awesome because I still was super social. And but 2010, when I graduated, is when the iPhone came out, right? And so that was becoming a thing. And so what I was learning in graduate school was sort of the old philosophy, right? Of like parenting and also, but like no one was concerned about phones, no one was talking about phones, like ever and we were all just living it and on G chat and everything in graduate classes, talking while the professors talked, right? We were kind of doing all the things. Yep. And then come 2017 when I graduate, that was the so what Height argues as the rewiring of childhood was 2010 to 2015, when basically everyone had smartphones by that point and social media was everywhere. So those five years is what kind of changed the childhood we see now, which you know, this new group is called Gen Z. Um, he wants to call it the anxious generation, where they have only known this one like technology age of being able to access your phone whenever and being able to get on social media whenever. So when I graduated, we I wasn't prepared for what happened, which was that you know, I was in inpatient hospitals and people had just tried to hurt themselves because somebody didn't complete their streak on Snapchat. And I was trying to figure, and you know, like hospital beds were like completely filled, like we couldn't, you know, the wait list was out the door because all these routines were having issues and no one could figure out why. They didn't know then that it was because of these smartphones, right? I mean, and obviously there are more things at play here, but height would argue that was a huge contributing factor.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

I I want to get into some of the recommendations, and and I want to eventually get into how you incorporate this yes into your clinical work, but if you'll allow it even some of your personal life. But let's start with some of the recommendations, which most people listening to this, you know, the anxious generation's been out for at least two and a half years now. Right?

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

So we've often joked, and this is I want to just acknowledge this, any parent listening to this, you've probably already read it. And if you haven't, you've been shamed into not knowing it. So it's really, it's been that powerful in that if you're a parent now, you ought to and you should, and all that sort of stuff. So some of these parents are going to know some of these recommendations, some won't. But before we go a little bit deeper, give us some of these recommendations that Dr. Height came up with.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

Yeah. So if you don't have time to read the book, know that what his main recommendations are is that you really shouldn't be allowing smartphones before high school, no social media before age 16. And then he is saying phone-free schools. We all need to move that direction. That is in an ideal world, kids come in and put their phones in a dedicated locker or pouch, and then they don't see it until the end of the day. Because there has been all this research that even just knowing your phone is in your bag, you know, takes away from your focus. And then the last one he recommends is more unsupervised play and childhood and independent independence, because we have this, as I said earlier, kind of tendency now to over-protect them from every possible danger when what they need is a space to explore, to make mistakes, to have conflict with other peers so that they can resolve it and become stronger and more resilient.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

And even since it's been published, and I think just over the last month or two, I I haven't been deep in the news, but there's been a lot of countries outside of the US who have actually banned some of these. So they're really trying to take some steps.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Yes. Yeah, I think Switzerland, I'm not I one European country basically is banning all education technology now, which is huge because that's the next step.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Um that's for another podcast.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

But because that's not that black or white. No. You know, we've taught to some educators and we've been in schools where it gets a little bit raucous, right? And and there probably is a small place for that. Yeah. And we're not even getting into AI or it, but just for the tech, there probably is a role in that, but it's probably so much smaller than where we've gotten over these last 15 years. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

I think those are his main recommendations, but we have on our website, we have his practical guidelines for each age, and I really encourage parents to look at those. I mean, we could talk about them now, but so for example, I have a six-year-old, and um, what's on here is kids should have a small list of chores and begin to earn a small weekly allowance because it helps promote that independence, right? And so just knowing that I'm gonna parent differently. Like if I know what should happen at each stage, this is a manual we all wanted when our kids are born.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Right. You got it. I really wanted that. And to your point, this will be there'll be a link to this document, which is like the ladder, the childhood ladder and the different ages. So it'll actually be in the description of the podcast. There'll be a link that they can go on right there. That's one of the examples. So at age six, that's one of the first ones, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Yep, yep. And then as they get older, I mean, I think we can kind of go into middle childhood, which I I really love this one. Um, what I've noticed a lot um in my sessions with kids is uh that nine to eleven range is really tricky. Like kids are wanting phones, um, parents are unsure, but they want to keep track of their kids. And so it's just real gray area. And then I think because parents know about anxious generation, they know that they shouldn't allow smartphones, but they're looking for other ways to help them and to kind of keep track of them. So, what Height would recommend is giving them more freedom to roam widely. You know, go ahead, hop on your bike, go to the pool. Like, and the summer in particular, it's a great opportunity to be like, okay, what actually am I worried about, but might be safe, right? So, like I've worked with a lot of parents about um, okay, so how far away is the pool? Okay, what's what sidewalks could they ride on? Okay, like I know you're nervous about this, and also that might be really freeing for your kid to be able to do this, you know? So allowing them to roam and take risks. And and I think, you know, some parents, if if they need to have a watch to be able to communicate, if that gives them peace of mind, as long as there aren't like a million games on there where they're right restrictions and the right, yeah. Then I think that's okay. I mean, that's my professional opinion. Everyone's gonna have a different view on that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

And that's, you know, we've we've been able to see, and it's been about a year, but I mean, we've been in the schools, and one of the things about this book, his book being such a great instructional manual, is we've seen states and counties and private schools and public schools really quickly be able to implement some of the first steps in this. And we've also heard like neighborhoods and groups of families and groups of parents say, okay, here are the instructions, and you don't have to agree to them all. You really don't, right? You can have a conversation, you can think about it. But we saw even like a year, year and a half ago, we saw like neighborhoods and groups of parents that were like, You're worried about this, I'm worried about this, how do we do it so that our kids can be safe? So, like, that's how the ball goes around.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Absolutely. And I love that height has on his website texts written out. He has templates you can use to send other parents, which is huge because you're not always sure what to say, and you don't want to be that weird parent. He's like, um Especially when your kid's saying every other kid has one and everything else and all all the time, everyone's yes, and what Height says, which makes I mean, I'm experiencing this now, like my kid's going to kindergarten, I'm nervous for him to make friends, you know. Our fear as parents are that our kids are not gonna belong, right? Or that they're gonna be ostracized or bully or teased. And so that's why we all fell into this trap and gave our kids phones early.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

We worry more about their social isolation.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Walk us through just for a little bit how do you utilize Heights knowledge, his book within the clinical world when you're working with either parents or the family?

SPEAKER_00 16:26

That's a great question. So storing intake with a kid, I might ask, how much are you using technology? What are you using? You know, um when just the parents are there, I'll say, How impairing is this to your family? You know, because sometimes it works for a family and it's and it's okay, you know, everyone has their own comfort level, right? Sometimes they're like, oh, they're on it all day. They're on video games eight hours a day and it's driving me nuts and I can't get them to do anything else, right? And so that is really important clinical information. Yes, because then we can incorporate it in a goal, right? And so once, I mean, obviously they can come in saying they need help with it, but a lot of people don't come in saying that. A lot of people are saying, here's the problem, and then I'm trying to figure out why is this a problem, and then we have to kind of trace it back to technology.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Yes. And it's like any intervention we're doing, with this or not, uh whatever client of any age, we have to walk with them, we have to listen to them, we have to figure out if they have motivation for it. Because if they just feel like this is what we're prescribing, or we're kind of feeling like we're shaming them again, or that that that's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

So you have to meet that client or that family kind of halfway to see what they're ready to do.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Right?

SPEAKER_00 17:35

Absolutely. And then I think I can get buy-in, especially from from teenagers, when we talk about what exactly it's causing in them. I mean, I had a a a teenage girl recently who I've been working with for a long time, and she says when she looked back, like she wishes she had never had social media. Yes. Right. And it's like, oh, I wish you could tell that to all the, you know, rising fifth and sixth graders. Yes. Because it's huge, right? And and so I think sometimes you get the buy-in of the them being like, yeah, I know I'm on it too much. And you're like, let's work together and come up with a solution, right? Like, let's do a pie here. We want this pie of time to be with friends. We want this amount of time to be, you know, exercise or, you know, engaging in a hobby you love, this amount for school. And so I love the pie, um, especially for families to see. Yeah. And then I love kind of collaboratively engaging in this goal setting of like, all right, we're feeling like this is too much. Sometimes when kids need help, you know, they're in that ambivalent, like not sure they want to make a change stage. We we talk a little bit about what the parents worry they're missing out on. And that usually helps because they can agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Please explain that. Give an example if you can.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Okay. So um, you know, a kid who's playing eight hours a day, I'll be like, okay, wait a minute. So this whole pie of time is like video games, right? When do you like what when's your time to hang out with friends and like have fun and like also figure out who you are because you're doing skills and getting brave and strong and all the things? And they're like, whoa, you know, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Like Well, but they might say, Well, I'm hanging with my friends online, they might playing video games with them. So that's the same, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:26

A hundred percent. And so then I have to kind of go into a little bit of like, it's different because the social skills that you use when you're not seeing somebody face to face are different. Yes. And so every time you're saying yes to a video game, you're saying no to getting more confident at some other social skill. Right. And so that helps, especially when kids are like nervous about the outdoors and things like that. They're like, oh yeah, like I can see how my fear is getting bigger of bees, you know, or my fear is getting bigger of, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Well, and this this one is a little bit personal. Like I said, my kids are now 18, 20, and 22. So I've been able to listen to them. But what I would say to the parents listening here, because you have access to them, talk to an 18-year-old, talk to a 22-year-old or a 24-year-old, because they're they've they've been in that first rung of the generation, and and just kind of get some information from them. Because you get to ask them whatever you want, you get to accept or not listen to other, but just talk to them. It's a great little sample size, right? Because this is a silly thing. My kids, one of the reasons why they love stranger things is because it happened in the 80s. And they love seeing what life looked like without cell phones.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Like that's a silly thing that they and they're kind of like, oh, I wish. I'm like, Yeah, you wish, but you're sitting there scrolling, right? So there's always a massive gap between what we know and what we do. But I would say the parents talk to a 20-year-old or 24-year-old and ask them what their experience was. Um, and this is a bit dramatic, and I'm not, you know, trying to scare the parents, but I I've had a 23-year-old on my couch who, you know, 13, 14 years ago was an early adopter, was really good at this stuff, and it was allowed. And the kid was crying on my couch, grieving the time and the things and the skills unbuilt that he'd lost.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

I mean, I was like, holy moly, this is right. So, like, this the the generation of yes, the kids in the 20s, but any anybody 15 to 25 now, like they're gonna help us, us old folks, solve this problem for the generation right under them. I just that's that's a little piece of hope that I hold on to.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

I hold on to that too. And I think especially there's this whole movement now with probably 20, 21 year olds of going phoneless and and they're they're rejecting, they're rejecting it. And that's beautiful. I mean, that is that gives me so much hope.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

And I'm I mean, not obviously to kind of bring it back full circle to when to use it. Like there are listen, especially if you're in survival mode as a parent, you've got really young kids.

unknown 21:59

I mean

SPEAKER_00 22:00

I just personally, like my daughter's learning how to walk right now. And both of my kids might be having meltdowns at the same time as she wants to walk because I'm holding her hand. Yeah. Right. So that's where I am in parenting. And it's really stressful. At the same time, like it's beautiful stress. Like the kids sometimes, you know, obviously, like I can think about that afterwards.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

And the moment I'm like right here.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

I can think about that later. But every time I say no to technology, I'm saying yes to sibling like rivalry that with them resolves. Yes. Right? Yeah. I've had some some clients in here who are feeling lonely because they're siblings playing video games all day. Yeah. And they're like, no one plays with me. And I'm like, okay, I guess that makes for like a less chaotic household, but it makes for really lonely kids. You can't learn those big the skills. That's right. Social skills.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Which are only learned that way. Right. They're only learned that way.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

And so, you know, I think there's a time and a place, you know, I think just being intentional about it. Right? Okay, I'm solo this, what I do in my house. I'm solo parenting night. I have to put three kids down to bed by myself. We're gonna have a movie night.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Right? And I think Jonathan Hyde would be thrilled to hear that. Why? Because he's like, okay, movies are great in terms of bonding, and they usually have more like plot that's emotional and moral development and lessons to teach, yeah. Lessons. And so I let the kids watch it while I put the baby to bed. And you know, I am using it as a sitter, but I'm also using it as a way for our family to bond in the scheme of things. Like, hey, I know it's hard, dad's not here tonight, but like we're gonna make it a fun movie night.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Yeah. And I think that's, you know, we were intentional. Meg, you're you're the third person doing the Transition to Summer podcast. We had, you know, Ashley and Teresa in here to try to be very intentional and to try to be like, well, here's some things to do. Here's some concrete, hands-on things to do. We talked a little bit about technology, but it wouldn't be fair for you and I to come in here like some people feel about this book, and and Dr. Hyde to be like, he's just scaring us and telling us what to do. He's not telling us what to do. Well, if you read the book, he's telling us fantastically what to do. Right. Right. But out of respect for the parents and what you're up to hour to hour, day to day, overwhelmed, right? You can give yourself a break. Yes. Right? It's not to be a 100% tech technology free zone, but the other two podcasts we have, we're trying to be pretty directive as well, as far as just ideas of what you can do instead of what not to do, especially that fits your family's culture.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

So we're hoping that that we're offering kind of both, some of the whys, but some of the what's.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Exactly. Yeah. And I think if you kind of sit down with your family and think about your values and your, you know, like what you want. It can be easier if you have a schedule of like, okay, you know, you're gone this night, this night, these are gonna be our screen nights, or you know, and and kind of saying, does this feel good to us? Yeah. Or if it's feeling like too much, let's have a family meeting about it. And, you know, no two families are gonna be the same.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Especially when they get older, and especially as they're child, and they get more of a voice, that's where I'm talking from. I got stories that I can't share here, but they've been fantastic learning experiences for everybody in the family.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Yes. I'm not even into the teenage years yet.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

No, you're not. You're far away from it. But I'll I'll be here to uh support and uh offer some peer supervision. Okay. So we're about to wrap up, and I know I'm kind of putting you on the spot because we don't have it listed here, but what what are some takeaways? How do you want to wrap this up just to figure out kind of what what message we're trying to send to the parents?

SPEAKER_00 25:28

I think the message that I want to send is first off, get yourself grace because it's hard being a parent, it's the hardest job you're ever gonna have. And so, you know, if you've made mistakes in the past, or if you're, you know, worried that you're making a mistake now, just know that we're all learning and we are there's room for improvement and no one's perfect. The second thing is just whenever you hand an iPad, a screen, whatever, I think just being really intentional about this. Like I think the big takeaways he's saying when giving recommendations is try to make sure that they're having a screen in a shared space if you can, you know, and making sure that you kind of know the what limits they have on that screen. And the more you can talk about what they're seeing on the screen, the better. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

That's and I guess it it's also about you're you're talking about the content. And I don't care if the child's four or fourteen, you know, is it something that is not going to feed them in any sorts of way that's not going to tap into an interest that they might have?

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Right. And I know we're talking about this might be YouTube or something else, but but it could also be something like is there at least some value? Is there maybe at least a little bit of value in in what they're and that's just a way that we can stay sane, give ourselves grace?

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

We don't have to turn this huge ship around overnight and feel guilt and everything else. But we're just trying to share this message, and that's why it's been so important because it's now in the schools we're talking about in the neighborhoods, and we're just trying to evolve and get better. And I really do feel like we're heading in the right direction.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

Yeah, I felt really positive about it as well. And I think the more people that know this information, the easier it's gonna get. Yeah. You know, the the bigger the collective lifts, the less individual weight that we will carry as parents. So that's right.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

Well, Meg, I can't thank you enough for being here. This is a really, really important topic that I'm sure we're gonna be talking about either again or expanding upon. But I really thank you for your time and your expertise.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Thank you. It's been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

As always, thank you for tuning in to this week's episode. If you enjoyed the conversation, be sure to follow the podcast so you never miss an episode. We appreciate you being part of the Summit Emotional Health community, and we'll see you next time.