MMM Edition: $300K Short 3 Days Before Closing A Golf Course with Ryan Potuck

What if the fastest route to freedom wasn’t more doors, but a better-aligned asset? We sit down with Ryan to trace a bold leap from duplexes and a five-unit to owning a 100-acre golf course, unpacking the exact moves that turned a passion into a viable business. You’ll hear why early rentals taught the right lessons but couldn’t deliver the life he wanted, and how one mastermind conversation reframed the plan: buy what you love if the numbers work.

We break the deal into concrete steps. Ryan explains how a golf course is both land and an operating company, why banks get skittish, and how an SBA 504 for the real estate plus a 7a for the business can blend into a workable structure. He shares purchase price, revenue context, the 15% down hurdle, and the role of appraisals in allocating debt. Then come the war stories: three days before closing, a $300k hole appears after an underwriting miss; 30 minutes before signing, the HUD shows a five-figure surprise. The save arrives through relationships and relentless transparency: a trusted contact bridges the shortfall with a private loan, and partners step up to close.

Once the keys are in hand, the real work begins. We talk payroll, carts, clubhouse events, and why marketing is the lever that can turn seasonal swings into steady cash. On underwriting, we compare DSCR realities, cap rates near the high single digits, and business valuation multiples in the three-to-four range. Most of all, we highlight how community accelerates progress. Masterminds and meetups raised the bar, opened lending doors, and kept the vision sharp when the first attempt fell apart.

If you’re weighing a big pivot—or wondering how to finance a complex, land-heavy business—this story lays out the road map: align with your purpose, assemble the right lenders and consultants, and let persistence compound. If the episode helped you think bigger, follow the show, leave a review, and share it with a friend who’s ready to turn passion into a plan.

VCap Real Estate Podcast

Transcript

From Rentals To A Golf Course

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Welcome to the VCAP Real Estate Podcast, where we talk about building physical empires. Learn from industry experts about all aspects of the business of real estate. You'll learn how to buy, renovate, manage, and sell deals by people who actually do it every day. People who build their fortune doing it. I'm your host, Paul Farrell. Let's talk. Tonight, we're gonna have a super awesome interview, something that's very different, I'm excited, Ryan Potlock. I've been around a long time, and I don't know much about your story, and it's one of the reasons I'm super excited to get into it, but we've been connected through different circles, and so thanks for coming a long way here. And so start off by just telling me what you do, what got you here, what give me the whole detail.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Yeah, I mean there's a lot here, so how do I uh keep it simple? Uh I mean we actually connected, I had heard a bigger pockets podcast episode about uh I think it was multifamily mastery or something like that that you were a part of, and you we reached out and you and I stayed in contact pretty early on in my journey, and uh pretty much what I'm doing overall, I got started into multifamily, started off with a duplex, then I got a triplex, or duplex, then a five unit. Um realized real quick I need to do more, and uh I wanted to you know get out of my full-time job and all that kind of stuff, and joined a multifamily uh mastermind, and then that kind of got me into doing bigger stuff. Uh, I got into an eight-unit joint venture, and then I recently sold the duplex and the five unit to get into the golf course. So I bought a golf course, and we'll get deeper into that. But the golf course is really my true passion, and I had a whole mental framework shift buying this, and I was like, this is where I want to go long term. I want to buy more golf courses and make this into my you know my my thing, my brain for sure. You just covered so so much.

Why Real Estate After Day Trading

SPEAKER_01 2:07

I know, but you just dive on in. I think you could dive on in. Let me go, I want to go all the way back first. So you mentioned the W-2, you mentioned you kind of started on assuming to get out of the out of that, but like, why real estate? There's obviously all these asset classes.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Anything more there? It's actually funny because just before real estate, I thought day trading stocks was the answer. I got lucky one time, had a big swing, uh, and I'm like, that's it, this is it. I'm gonna dive full on in. Um, thought I had this gift. I spent about three years trying to make that whole thing work. And then just like probably most of us, I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, because I've heard it online so many times, and that mental framework shift about having assets, not liabilities, having cash flow. And I have family in real estate. I had a cousin who had, I think, two duplexes, you know, very long-term old stuff there. And it always always been around me. And my dad went to trade school, he was a carpenter for like a little bit. So I've always seen like house repairs. I said, this makes a lot more sense. You know, a lot of people who have wealth have real estate. And I said, that's what I want to focus all my energy on. It's real cash flow.

Early Multifamily Lessons

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Love it. So you bought what was the first thing you bought? Three years, you said, or it was a duplex.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Um, I bought duplex, and the funny story with that was I heard so many podcasts, I was probably stuck on podcasts for like a couple years, and um one podcast on Bigger Pockets, I don't mean to be shouting them out, I'm not sponsored by them, but Bigger Pockets, there was an episode where the guys like the best thing to do is just dive on in, buy a property, go learn 10 times more actually on the property. Yep, and that is true. I'm sure we can all attest it to that. Um, because you hear all these things about all these different cash-and-cash returns, all these things you can do. I bought the duplex, and immediately I had a third-party manager, and it was just all out of out of whack. Learned a lot of lessons right there.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

So you bought that, you bought a couple more, and so you you enjoyed doing it, but like what kind of, I guess, transitioned you from the multifamily? At what point did you go like golf course? How did that run?

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Honestly, it was a big mental shift of I want to get out of my W-2, and you hear guys on online say the five years, they scaled up, they have all this cash flow, and they can do it full time. So I bought a duplex, um, you know, cash flow was there. I then bought a five unit. Um, I used some credit cards and lines of credit, and I really try to make that thing thing work. And um, you know, of course, having all the extra debt, I was paying that down now. And after a few years of all that, I was like, I'm not really seeing the cash flow. Because all of a sudden, one thing breaks, a tennis overheated upstairs, like everything's happening, and I'm like, where's the money going? Um, and I was talking to somebody in a mastermind that I'm a part of, and she was like, Why not buy a golf course now? Because I love golf. And I said, Someday when I'm 80 and I have all this money sitting inside, I'll buy a golf course. She's like, if you underwrite it and it makes sense, why not buy it? And I left that phone call and I was like, I can't stop thinking about that now because I love golf. Why not?

SPEAKER_01 5:00

So that's awesome. So run me through like, is a golf course just like a normal business? And I mean, I remember when I saw your post that you were doing this, I was like, how the fuck do you buy a golf course? Like, what does that entail? So is it just like a normal business?

What Buying A Course Really Involves

Exiting Small Rentals For Bigger Bets

SPEAKER_00 5:14

You how what does it look like? Yeah, so a golf course, unlike a hair salon or a basic business, there's a lot of real estate to it. So we'll get there probably in a second, but the lending side is a lot more complex having land and a business. Um, but yeah, I mean it's just a business. As long as you have an income coming in, you have your expenses, you're managing it. The big key factor is keeping a healthy cash flow because things you need money to put back into the business, and payroll is a whole new thing that I never learned until this. Um, but yeah, this is my first actual business. It's not like a real estate business, it's it's very much hands-on every day. People calling you with questions, and you have to have the answer. You can't just be, I don't know. What do we do? So do you still own your bottles? I have an eight-unit joint venture. Yeah, and then you sold your other. Yeah, so the ones that I did solo, it was just a lot of headaches, and I did I think I bought right, but my underwriting was very back of the napkin. I thought I was doing it okay. Um, and then when I joined the mastermind, uh, getting around the wrong the right people, they were thinking bigger. You know, like, you know, so after a year of doing that with them, they were like, I have a joint venture, why don't you do this? It's local. Um, so I sold the duplex again to that one, and then the five unit got me into the uh golf course.

The Two-Year Pursuit And First Failure

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Love it. So I heard earlier when you were chatting, I wonder if it's somebody else, but you said to you found it, it took two years to buy it, right? Oh yeah. So walk me through the buying thing, and I want the details. Okay. I know people get scared by like, what am I getting into? But tell us like the good, the bad, the ugly.

Lenders, Consultants, And Partners Align

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Well, first off, I think I approached Cipriano first, and I was like, Slip, I'm buying a golf course. And he thought it was crazy because it was downpouring snow in northeast of PA. We just met really, and um, so after I had that conversation about you could do it, I went on on loop net, I found a golf course nearby, called up the owner, called up the broker. I'm like, I want it. Really didn't have much stuff into it. Just I want to buy it, let's make it happen. Um, so I got under contract by I think it was Christmas of 2023, I think it was. Um were they negotiating, or was it kind of like here's the price, and you're like, cool. So my thesis was how many people are buying golf courses at a nine-holder. So I was just like, you want this? I'll just I'll give you the full asking price. Uh seemed to make sense. I just thought why not? Um, I figured you can underwrite on the go. And the thing that I found out was there's third-party managers that actually manage golf courses. Never knew that until I started talking to other people. So I talked to the guy, I'm like, how do I do the due diligence? How do I really dive in deep with this to figure out how what's it worth? And he gave me a laundry list of things, and I remember at one point I'm thinking, like, I think I'm running out of time to do all these things before closing. And the the the thing where they say, if you have a good deal, people will come. That's only true if if you know people and you're not pulling out a blue, hey, I'm buying a golf course. So I was banking on some people to help me out with this, and um, they were like gun-ho, super excited about it. But as we got closer, there weren't like, yeah, here's the chat, where'd we wire the money? It was more like, I want to dig in more with these numbers. I'm like, well, this is what I've got, like, there's no other numbers. Like, what else do you want me to like show you? Um, and then and and we were pretty like uh close. So it's kind of like maybe you will learn with me, I'm newer, but I'm a trustworthy guy, hopefully with you guys. And um, it got to the point where we're pulling every lever trying to make the finance work. We tried seller finance, we tried SBA, but I was too late in the game for that. The seller that wanted to do seller five, or he really wasn't interested in that. He wanted me to try a loan first. I tried a bank, but banks want like 40% down, which is impossible. Um, I tried doing a uh lease purchase option, like let me lease the business for the year, learn it, and then have the option to buy in the fall. Um, he didn't want that. So there's a lot of things we're trying, there's a few other things we're trying, like buy the real estate, lease the business, buy the business, lease the land. Like we tried different ways to separate out the land. Um, because the business itself is worth a lot less than what the land is. So I was like, I've got a hundred acres of land in a small business in a sense. If I chop off the land and get the business first, but I want to buy that land. Right. Um, and the due diligence, the the date was coming. I'm like, I I can't close on this. I don't think I want to back out, guys, but I want to come back to this. So then it uh again, it's a long story. So then once that happened, I remember I backed out, yeah. I backed out. Um, I think that was in the early spring of 2024, because then we got into business acquisitions a little bit. Like I was learning about how to underwrite a business, what they're valued at. And I called up the same person who told me about like why not buy a golf course. I called her up and I'm like, we're gonna buy a plumbing business, like it has a great cash flow. I'll use the cash flow to put back into real estate. And she's like, you know, that's awesome, but I think the golf course is where you need to be. I'm like, crap, you're not wrong. So with all this new mindset knowledge, I went back to the owner again. I said, look, I want your golf course. Like, like I really want this golf course. Like, I I I want to have my kids growing up on this thing. Like, can we make this thing happen? Um, and because he knew how I started the first time, he connected me with his lending consultant. There's guys out there who actually full-time specialized in finding new lending options and and helping with the SBA, your business plan. So he helped me out. He helped me out with the insurance, uh, with the SBA, with the business plan. Um, and I was actually, if I sold the five unit, I was gonna have enough cash alone to buy this thing. So I wasn't really looking for investors with them. I was very confident, I'm buying it. This is the day it's happening. So I think that confidence I guess came off of it. And people are like, either Ryan's crazy, he's talking about this golf course for a couple years now, or there's something to this. So I was talking with um Cipriano the one day, and he was like, dude, I want in. I was like, all right, sure. So he was the first guy in. And then again, I wasn't looking for partners, but a month or so later, I was on a Zoom call. The other partner was on there, and I texted him, hey man, long time no C. It's like, hey, let's get on a phone call. Got a phone call, he's like, I want in. I'm like, all right, sure. So it's funny because people are like, How'd you raise the money? I'm like, I really didn't raise the money, I just kind of did my thing, and people were calling me, which is probably mostly luck, to be honest. Uh, somewhat luck, somewhat negotiations, long-term talking with.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

I don't know I disagree though. I would say you worked your ass off and you probably turned over every stone, and then eventually you had that passion, and somebody recognized it.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

I think that's where I was saying earlier, if you I networked for multiple years at this point. I was always nice, I always did what I said I was gonna do. I think people I got they know, liked and trust me after a while. So when I had this deal and I was like, here are my numbers, here's my lender, here's my consultant, here's this, here's that. They're like, Okay, there's more this year than last year. I think we should probably try it. Um, so so I had my my two other guys, and then it was about what do you want me to go into the different loans we had or go into the disasters first?

SPEAKER_01 12:00

Um I don't want to go into the disasters, but wait, let me ask you said you're kind enough by selling the five units to buy this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

So why part? So I thought, why not like instead of being pinched, like what if something pops up? Like I want to have other people help helping me out. Okay. And I'm so thankful I did because oh, you're here here, here in a second, there is things that popped up. Um but yeah, I just thought it's a team effort. I did my two deal solo, I hated being alone in it, like there's no accountability. And I said, I want to have partners that I can go out golfing with and have fun with, and be like, dude, like what can we do here and there? Like, let's just do it together. So I was all for it. Yeah.

The Capital Stack And Numbers

SPEAKER_01 12:35

So tell me other disasters because anyone that's on deals knows very well that the closing date and the finish line is just never smooth.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

So let me uh first say I was three days before closing and I was$300,000 short. Uh now let me back step. Um because we'll go into lending here in a bit. There's there's three loan types, and there's a lot of details here. We can go into it if you want to, but the bank lends a portion and then SBA lends the rest of it, and you come in with a little small slip. Can you are you comfortable giving us the details?

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Yeah, don't forgive everything, but like what'd you buy it for? What are you looking for for financing? What kind of percentage? Because that helps map out.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Sure. So it was a 1.5 million purchase price, uh, 100 acres with a business that was making like 400,000 gross in like revenue. So um, and there's about 10 employees there currently. So it was a well-run machine around since 1969. Wow. Um, so it was a well-established business. I wasn't looking into buying a startup kind of thing. I wanted to get one that's already proven. And um, so I bought it for that. The bank was gonna lend, I forget how much it was, but my down payment was 15%. Okay. So usually SBA is is a 10% down, but being that it was such an unknown with the extra land, they were like, let's do 15 down. So between the bank and the SBA products, it was that did all that, I do 15. So I think our closing amount was just over 200,000. It was like it was a little more than that. Maybe 260 eventually. It's a couple hiccups, but yeah. Um, but yeah, so it was like two, so I'm gonna just round up 275 to buy a 1.5 million dollar golf course that you can have fun on play. And it in my mind, I love multifamily, but it beats the just collect rent checks, fix a water for Peter. It's why not go out the golf after work? Why not? Like, I literally every day, once in a while, we'll go around, just drive around the golf course, checking out the golf groups, making sure things look correct. Uh say my bunker can go there, bunker can go there. It's just it's just a total ballpark, like a lot of fun. Um, so so yeah, there's the bank and then there's the SBA. You want me to dive into those a little bit?

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Yeah, so somebody doesn't know like how do they work together, how do they not?

unknown 14:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

So a bank is not comfortable lending all of it. But the government wants to see small businesses grow. So there's a small business association, SBA, they're willing to lend these businesses if there's enough of you know enough proof that you can run the business, enough cash flow. Um, they're willing to bet on you and it'll be money. So they're saying, hey, bank, if you lend on the steel, we'll supplement the rest of it. And that way the owner, who's usually a small business owner, can afford to start a business.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

So let's just say for fun, banks will say, hey, 75%, we'll give 75%. And let's say you're like, okay, I don't have 25%. The SBA will be like, hey, we'll give another 10%. So we'll find 10 more and be like, okay, I only need to come up with 15, you're right.

Three Days To Close And A Shortfall

Last-Minute HUD Surprise And Team Save

Owning The Course Day To Day

SPEAKER_00 15:23

15 or but usually 10. So yeah. So like yeah, so really a bank will end whatever, SBA will then the rest, and then you spay like 10. Okay. So it really is a good way of getting into a big project. Like, um, because you can use SBA, I'm assuming, for like an apartment complex. And and I'm sorry, I just want to interrupt. What the SBA does is they guarantee 75% of the work. So they don't literally loan anything, but they guarantee it to the bank. Yeah, so they're very comfortable. That's a good thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So banks feel more comfortable if they back that up. Because and there's a heavy due diligence period with SBA, like they want into everything. Um literally, if you add your middle initial on your signing papers, I closing, they'll throw it out and say we have to redo this closing because your name's Ryan Potok, but you signed Ryan M. Potok. Or if you're Ryan M on this contract, but then you sign Ryan Potak, that's not the same person. Don't have to say your name on this whole time. Oh, goddammit. Hey, everybody says Ryan Potlock or Ryan Potlock. Sorry. It's okay, it's okay. Um sorry, continue. So SBA is very finicky on everything. So literally every form, I look at everybody, they'll be like, Ryan M or Ryan, Ryan Pota. Ryan M. All right, next form. Same thing. It was a two-hour closing because I'm just signing stacks of paperwork. Like it was just you have to do every SBA loan's like like paperwork. They sign away your life to everything, but it's it's a lot. So you were saying a couple days before closing, though, there were some hiccups, and you were mentioning that too. What are they like? So can I go into the the the loan factor quick? Because it kind of gives a little bit more explanation. So you have the bank loan, first position. There's two different SBA loans. So because there's a heavy land play, there's SBA 504, which is more land-based, then there's the SBA 7A, which is like a business, like a hair salon and all that. Um so we're like, how do we split this apart to get the best favorable terms? Um SBA 504, because it's LAN, they will amortize it, what, 20 years, 6? 25. 25 years, and interest rates are a lot more favorable. A 7A is a 10-year loan, I think, um, at a higher interest rate, I believe. So the goal, my lending consultants, like, we have to put as much as the appraised value under the 504 as possible, so that way you have better terms blended with everything. So we got our appraisal back. Um, you know, they uh, whatever the land appraised for, they put the 504 for that. Whatever was left was the 7A, you know, with the bank. So so just to recap, bank 504, 7A. Um there's one more complexity in there, I don't want to say because I might get a little too complex. There was a fourth part in there that was part of the bank, but that's the main structure there. So three days before closing, the 7A goofed or something and didn't include someone with the underwriting. So they're like, oh, we're not gonna lend you$300,000 because uh by two$250, but no, it's$300, and here's why. Like, oh well, it's gonna take us five business days to re-underwrite this. This was Wednesday, we're closing Saturday morning. I think it was the Saturday morning. Uh I think it was Saturday. No, it was Friday. It was Friday. So it was like five business days before we way past closing next week. And the seller was not gonna move the golf season's coming in, like, there's no way this is be being moved. Um, I called up my friend again, the same person who's been helped me out, not to raise money or anything, but I was like, hey, this sucks, like we're 300 short, like I guess we're done. I don't really know what to do, it really sucks. And she was like, you know, I have the money, I can lend you the money. And I was like, okay. Like, what do you mean? Ryan, it wasn't that easy. Ryan had been networking with this for over two or three years, yeah. And he'd been keeping it in constant, constant every week, and it's more and more. Yeah, so so it's a good point, a good networking tip. And it's funny because people were asking me, how do I repeat your process networking? I'm like, well, it's not really a process, you just be up person and talk to somebody. Uh yeah, so so like every week I'd be like, hey, guess what? I just learned this, it was so cool. And she was like, Oh, that's awesome. And then a week later, hey, I just signed out this, and we talked about like a half hour, hour long. Um, so we were really close friends through this process because she's been helping me. So when it came down to three days short, she was like, Look, I have a line of credit, I want to privately lend more, like, I feel safe doing this because I trust you. Not really the deal kind of, but I trust you. So I got her on the phone with a lending consultant with the bank, um, and they explained to her the different loans, like what's the backups. If the 7A, hypothetically, if the 7A never came through, because at the same time, that like doge thing was happening. If the 7A never happened, what's her backup plan? Well, there's I guess fourth or fifth option now in the background. There's a Bob loan, which apparently the government wants to reinvest in their businesses, so they have millions on the side to give into businesses 0% down, like super low interest rates to really give their businesses a boost. Wow. No one ever teaches this, it's not out there, it's not common knowledge, apparently. But I learned about this, and um, that was in the background of if 7A doesn't come in, this is gonna come in and be your third loan. Yeah. So she had 7A and the bottle loan as backup lines. Um so she lent to me, and once so then we were 30 minutes before closing, pickup number two happened. I got the HUD documents, which is the documents with all the information on it. 30 minutes before closing, I'm driving to the closing table. I open it up just to see, and I'm like, our estimated cash to close is off by like 50k or like 70k. I call I call up the guy, like I call up the lending guy, and I was like, dude, I don't have 70k. I literally am stretched here. I'm like, he's like, can your partners find it? Like, is there any way you can like come up with that? 70k mishap though. Just closing costs, things that the attorney should have thrown in there, but like I don't know. It was just it wasn't the down payment or any of that. So I'm stressed out, going to the closing table. I called up Sip and the other guy, Yosef, and I said, guys, is there any way we can like split this? Like, I I don't have the cash. Uh thankfully, you know, Sip and Yosef saved me. Um, so I drove the table. So it wasn't like a blast up the nickel back, jamming out, driving out to the closing table. It was a dead silent drive to the closing table. Like, I feel like crap. I get there and the guy's like, like, I'm so happy you have you have deep pocket friends. I'm like, yeah, me too, because this is horrible. But here's the sketchy part. Well, not sketchy, but another hard-dropping, like, scary part. We had to close because it was going to the weekend. I had to write checks for that amount of money from from the business account that didn't have the money, and we had to tell the realtors and the let and the people involved, you're not allowed to deposit your checks until Tuesday, because it's the weekend and stuff. Everyone was in agreement. So I had the weekend for these guys to wire money. And if that didn't happen, they're like, Do I get the keys back? Like, what happens if you don't get the money by by Tuesday? So we finally closed, and Cyprian's on the phone, like, like, how's it feel? And I'm like, I don't know, to be honest. I don't feel like I want anything. I feel like I'm on the hook for a lot. And um, yeah, and then yeah, that was that's that's the whole lending thing. There's more to it, but that was the lending. It was everything happens.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

That's crazy. Okay, so let's take a more positive note. So now, after all that, you you own this and you've been in it for a while. So what's it like now? Are you loving it? Is it working? Is the business growing? Tell us some of that.

Land Value, DSCR, And Underwriting

SPEAKER_00 22:34

It is not work. I go there every day super happy. I'm filling up the carts with gas, even though I'm the boss, I shouldn't be filling up the gas carts. He likes golf. Yeah. I mean I I I I I think I remember it was like the first week I called up Siph like on hole one, like, yeah, I'm out there walking along playing golf. He's like, oh, it's a really tough day in the office. I'm like, I mean, I gotta try out the golf course, make sure things are working properly. Uh so I mean you it is true, you don't play as much golf when you want a golf course. Though having kids before, like you know, during this, I didn't play much golf the previous couple years, so it didn't really change much. Um, but no, it's great, it's fun, uh, things are going well, a lot of learning lessons, things that I never knew. Uh payroll was one that I had no idea about. Uh that was an intimidating time. But uh yeah, you learn on the fly. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

So when you're looking at like the golf course, obviously everyone who's an investor. How much does like the land factor into that? Like, are you kind of counting on the land to appreciate and does that help, or is that kind of just like bonus on top?

SPEAKER_00 23:31

The land is a big part of it. I mean, the business cash flow has to afford the debts. Like, that's the part. You can't just buy a golf person that's weak on cash flow, saying it's a well-established business, will work out. If the land is worth so much, but the business cash flow is so little, the bank's still gonna lend based on the debt service cover ratio of that business. Right. So that's where you have to find seller finance or some kind of third party to help you finance more of it. Um, so the debt service cover ratio was definitely tricky with this. Like it was doing well, um, but like any more of a purchase price, it would have been really tight, it would have been rough. But gotcha.

Multiples, Cap Rates, And Metrics

SPEAKER_01 24:07

So you kind of touched on with TSCR, but are there other metrics, whether it's your business or other businesses that you're familiar with that have like basic things that you're looking at to evaluate? I mean, if someone here is like, wow, that sounds great, maybe I should buy a business, or I like that idea. Like, how are you evaluating this?

SPEAKER_00 24:22

So, just like cap rates, there are multiples for a business. Every business, every location, there's different averages. Um, and there's websites for that. So I forget what the golf course is. So do you remember what the golf course multiple was? I have two now I don't know. So they're I want to say it was like a three or a three, yeah. Yeah, a three or four, somewhere in there. But on top of that, there's a there's also the cap rate side, too. So I was told golf courses could be usually around like a nine cap, a ten cap. Usually I want to buy around a ten or eleven cap, ideally. Um, but that's kind of what they run for.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Same cap idea as real estate and multiple.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

It's the same, but there's it's like the same with like real estate, as long as the debt service is is covered, enough cash flow, like that's the main metric. So it's like again, I'm still new to this, I'm learning, there's a lot of things to it, but it's like as long as you the income's there, you're watching the cash flow, don't overspend on it. Um that's like the big deal with it.

Masterminds, Meetups, And Momentum

SPEAKER_01 25:14

I love it. Um you're part of the mastermind, and you mentioned it a couple times, and obviously you've gotten benefit from that, and you're here at this meetup, we've met through random things like that. So I guess just talk to us about like whether it's a mastermind or meetups like the value found in that. I mean, obviously everyone's here because they believe in that to some degree, but it is tremendous.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

I mean, as you guys all know, uh they say you're the average of the five people around you, or whatever the saying is. It's definitely true. Um, for example, when I first joined the the mastermind, um before it officially started, they're having a Cincinnati meetup, and I'm like, I want to try nine hours out there to prove these guys like I'm I'm I'm gonna take everything, I'm gonna be great at this, like I'm not just gonna sit back and relax. I get out there and my whole group set. People flown from California, some flown from like Florida, some flown from like like uh Canada. I'm thinking, so I'm not unique. I'm like the average. I was like, okay, this is weird because until then, my family members thought I was crazy doing real estate, uh, no one else was doing it. They thought I was like, oh, you should just have fun, relax, enjoy your job. Like there was no one motivating me. And then once you join this, it's like everyone else was like, go, go, go. I've got this many properties, I've got this. There's never a dull moment. And never you talk to these people, they're like pushing you. So it's hard to not keep going and feel motivated when you're around the other people.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

I love it. It's absolutely so good. And one other thing I just wanted to say earlier, and I totally forgot until now before we get into the last section, is I love that like you kept going and you didn't stop. And I just think that's a huge thing. Every person that sits in the seat that you're in, that is successful, that's done the thing that they're trying to do, has a point where they could or maybe should turn around. I shouldn't say should, but they don't, right? And you didn't, you face those challenges, you even have that back out point, and yet you're still like, you know what? No, let's keep going. And I just love that. It's such a cool story.

Persistence, Purpose, And A Bigger Why

SPEAKER_00 27:02

So I I think it's something where like, and going back to your early questions about why the golf course out of the blue, I'm an overthinker. I think we all can be that way if we're entrepreneurs, you always think big and all that. But I always think, what's my ultimate goal in life? Like what what do I want out of it? Like, I can clock in, clock out, and be happy, kinda. Uh but uh but it but it's like what's the point? And I always think about that, and that's when when real estate for me got bogged down by a lot of things that I own personally. Not the Apex is doing great, but things that I bought personally will just drag me down. I'm like, well, if I had all the money in the world and all the time in the all the time in the world, what would I be doing? I'd be golfing. Like, I I love golf, I want to golf more. I want to be the old man behind behind the uh bar there, hanging out with the guys, talking about golf. And um, so that doesn't really click like, well, why not, why am I waiting 30 years to buy that? Why not take my end goal, bring it here, and say, the who not how principal? Like, who do I know doing it? Who could help me do it? Who's who who's that first person? And um, yeah, like just and once I achieved this goal, it made me think of a much bigger goal. And it's like, what else can we do? Like anything is possible with the right connections, the right socialization, like just aim big and you know, you may not get fully there, but you'll get you way further along and then we where you can do it, do nothing.

Rapid-Fire Lessons And Favorite Books

SPEAKER_01 28:19

So awesome. All right, I got a couple questions. I ask you to every person, and you kind of answer the first one, but I'll ask you in anyways. What separates the top performing investors business, however you want to phrase that, but separates those top performed people from everybody else?

SPEAKER_00 28:36

I think just having a bigger why, a bigger purpose, and pushing for something. Like if you're just like, I have it, this is great, I'm just gonna keep buying stuff, but really have no direction, what's gonna stop you from investing with somebody and then all of a sudden they derail and do something else? And like you want that person to love what they're doing and be motivated. So I think just having a clear picture and excitement for what you're doing in a strong why. So good.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

What is a daily habit daily habit that contributes to your success?

SPEAKER_00 29:03

I would say honestly, like being really cognizant of what I'm doing. Like I I'm I'm messy throughout the day, but I'm very cognizant of I'll get five hours a night of sleep. It sucks. I like to sleep. But like I that's the minimum I can do and still do it. So I'll get up early just so that way I can have enough TV time to watch while I'm having breakfast. That gets me to work early, to flex some hours, so that way when I'm not so focused during the day, do the golf course, uh, it all works out. But then also not going too far down the rabbit hole of too much work and not enough time with the family. So I'm constantly tweaking my schedule, making these lists of how can I optimize this and that. Um, not as nerdy as it sounds, but internally I'm just doing that. Maybe it's the engineering mind that I've got.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

So good. What is a piece of advice that you give to yourself if you're starting over?

SPEAKER_00 29:52

When I'm starting over, I would say don't I see I like the fact I jumped into it, but I would I would. Tell myself, don't stress out by not being there like now. Just make connections, think big, have a goal and work towards it, and just keep pushing. Like it's gonna happen. Don't jump into a deal that's not the best. Like, it's good to get started, but like I think it mean it would mean more if you just got going in a group of people who are really motivated.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

I like that. What is your favorite real estate or business book?

SPEAKER_00 30:23

So this is tough. I I want to say that like a mental I'll call it more of a business book is that Who Not How by Dan Dan Solzman. Because that's something that really frames work of like if you say I don't know how to do something, your brain locks up, you get stressed out of all the unknowns, but if you say, Well, who do I know who's doing it? Well, that's easy. Just find a person who's doing it and talk to them. So that really was a big shift. Um I'd say that's like a business and real estate. I like that one.

SPEAKER_01 30:51

Definitely great. All right, last question. What is your favorite part of let's say owning your business?

SPEAKER_00 30:59

I think just having control of it, like it's so much different than other investments, where if you want to have a wing night, okay, well then how do you do it? Like, let's like we just we made that about three weeks ago. So we thought of all these ins and outs, what all would the prices be? Like, what are the advertisements? If I want to put the pedal down and make more advertisements, you know, make more media, social media, I can just go out and do it. If I want to have we're trying to get a comedian night going, so working towards that. That's all like anything you could think of, you could do it. And say, okay, well, where are there any guide rails? Not really, just have at it, have fun, but like, you know, uh put the pedal down, but in a safe way. But this is the opportunity and just creating things. It is a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

I love that. Well, thank you for driving here and being here. I know you came a long way, so let's give Ryan a round of applause.