VCap Real Estate Podcast
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Learn from industry experts about all aspects of the business of real estate.
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VCap Real Estate Podcast
MMM Edition: From Zero To 700+ Units with Jon Brandon
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Freedom doesn’t come from a single lucky deal; it comes from stacking repeatable wins. John Brandon joins us to share how a childhood spent around apartment complexes turned into a 700+ unit portfolio, a hard-earned education in debt cycles, and a new focus on smaller, faster-moving multifamily that can outperform jumbo syndications.
We walk through the first 16-unit JV in Greenville, North Carolina—how under-$500 rents doubled after deliberate turns, why local knowledge mattered, and what changed once interest rates jumped. John breaks down a tough Baltimore exit where investors were made whole but sweat equity vanished, then explains the portfolio pivot: sub-50-unit deals with mom-and-pop sellers, tighter operations, and clearer value-add paths. You’ll hear how $600k in soft capital evaporated two weeks before close, why that pushed him toward JV structures, and how he uses LinkedIn and warm outreach to attract investors without becoming “the cousin with the stock tip.”
This conversation is also a masterclass in recurring revenue. John’s background in payments taught him to love predictable cash flow, which now shows up in apartments and a franchised insulation business designed for steady margins and simple operations. We compare GP vs LP roles in real estate syndications, unpack out-of-market investing due diligence, and detail the debt choices—bridge vs agency—that can make or break an otherwise solid plan. If you’re weighing small multifamily against big syndications, or eyeing a second engine with a Main Street business, this episode gives you a practical roadmap grounded in real numbers and real pivots.
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VCap Real Estate Podcast
So without further ado, we have John Brandon tonight. Super excited to have him. You're a serial entrepreneur. You've done a lot of stuff in the small business world, which I'm going to let you talk about. And you facilitated, I believe, over 30 million and roughly 700 units, if I'm right. And so you have a really cool club, and I want to get into that in a little bit. But anyway, it's 3,200 members. So tell us your story. Tell us how you got here. Give us the details.
SPEAKER_03:We're going to go way back. And I apologize, Ken, because Ken has heard this story. I think we were interviewing in Tennessee before. But it actually started when I was way young as a kid. My parents were part of a team. My mom tried to explain it, but she didn't know what I guess what syndications were back then. But they uh my father's an Italian immigrant and he was like a superintendent handyman. And my mom was basically, we'll call her uh an asset manager, you know, uh and property manager. So they kind of just sold themselves as a husband and wife team uh for apartment complexes. So um I always wanted to consider myself an army brat because we kind of went to um probably moved around four or five times before I was 10 years old. But um we kind of ended up um and that's what they did, and then I ended up in a in a place where I actually worked for another Italian immigrant who actually didn't know a word of English when we first came over to this country. And um he was a fix and flipper. And somehow we ended up in uh in Rockaway, New Jersey, um, and had this huge um huge piece of property. And back then Rockaway wasn't what it is now, and it's it's just a huge complex. But um, I remember you know, you have your parents and they're on a pedestal because they're your parents, and you know, you see this uh and it's third boss. So like so as an eight-year-old, I was like, oh my god, like this is like you know, it's almost like God, you know, when you see it, and he's got this big red Cadillac. So it's like, oh wow, this is this is unbelievable. And I think when we got there, um it literally was like only 16 units. Now we apparently had, as I learned, you know, eight years old, I didn't know the whole story back then, but as I got older I learned it, um, he had two different complexes in New Jersey. So this was like his third, and this was his baby because those are the other ones he took over and he did just remodels and stuff that we do as syndicators. But um that was one that he just built from the ground up, and it was like it was only 16 units, and my parents came in there as you know superintendent. And she actually and what's funny was she was actually then in charge of everything, like uh asset manager, property manager, leasing manager, like everything that had to do with, and in fact, the construction crews would come in and she was the point person. So she actually learned. So I was like, uh, I made that joke before about learning at the kitchen table, and I said it's about Joe. They learned it at the kitchen table, but that's you know, kind of uh right there. So I always had that in my head. Um, you know, and as growing up and things happened, my parents got divorced, and uh, we always were apartment moving. And it was funny, one thing my mother said to me was uh start of every month, she's like, It's it's the landlord's birthday. So I'm a kid, and I'm like, oh wow, you know, you get presents on your birthday. And I was like, but I never could figure out why every month I was like, What? This guy's got another birthday? He's got another presentation, like what the hell is going on here? And uh finally you realize like it's the rent. So you know, you have that so you have that subconscious thing going on, like, like, all right, what something's going on here, like how could I so you know stuff that you get ingrained as a kid and like how you go in the future, and you know, but uh you always had these things, and it was kind of funny. Another thing that um that I we had a family member who um oh and him and his brother uh started a construction company kind of early on, and uh she's like, Hey, you know, you know, she's like, You know, my cousin Randy, he started uh at 17, he didn't buy a car. And I was like, Wow, you know, you want to, you know, in Jersey it's 17, by the way. If uh residents in here to drive, um he didn't buy a car, he um he bought a house and clipped it. It's like so, but now like and we know cousin Randy's uh you know a multimillionary, and then like we know we had some stuff, so it was like wow, there's something going on with real estate here, and uh, you know, so as things go on, you know, so the only way you think you have a path out is college. You know, I went to I w I went to C Mall, you know, thought I was gonna be a doctor, a lawyer, all these different things. And uh it turns out uh when I um graduating and trying to go for my master's and then getting into software and then getting sales because it was a quicker path to try to try to make money. Um I never really you know it was like okay, real estate's there, you know, and then I gotta try to get there. But the one thing that always held me back is I thought capital was the way to do it. So I was always trying to either try to save money or try to do with that. So um eventually getting to you know, they call it house hack now, but all it was was a two-family house. Yeah, well, it's like okay, I'll live in one part and you know, the second floor, you know, try just try to make mortgage, try to try to get that. So that's really kind of where that that journey starts is okay. You start with the with the two-family, you know. I never really got into um a lot of the fix and flips, you know, uh small things here or there. Uh, but um the funny thing is, you know, I got into when the whole poker phrase came out in the early 2000s, I got into that a little bit and I found, you know, I'll call it a mentor. Um it was kind of funny because uh he always wore, he was a roofer by trade. He always wore his his uh logos and everything. And um, but you know, getting to know him a little better and and you know coming to the game all the time, you know, he showed up and he had two like brand new Corvettes he showed up in. Then he had like a couple different Harley Davidson's brand new ones. And I was like, I was like, what the hell is like what's going on? Is it a drug dealer? They're like, no, dude, he owns like 40 multifamily houses in New Jersey.
SPEAKER_05:I'm like, wait, what?
SPEAKER_03:And he had you know anywhere from two to four family. He didn't have anything big. It was kind of funny because he um he you know he was joking around that he was dumb like a box. Um and as I got to know him better, uh it was it, he was starting to get into he was like, Yeah, I got some kind of deal where I'm involved in like a 200 unit in Florida. It was kind of um so he started getting into uh syndications, but only as a as an LP. But um unfortunately he passed away as we were gonna try to get into um our own little thing, you know.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I kind of lost a mentor in that uh um there. So then uh that's where I kind of sought out um where you know I work kind of kept me, you know, uh as becoming part, you know, for over 20 years I got into the payments world, and what's funny in the in the credit card payments world and point of sale, you know, everybody's doing the touch screen stuff, um that's also a recurring revenue. That's a monthly type of revenue thing where I recruited entrepreneurs. So all I did was networking events, so things like this, or going to marketing shows, uh having trade show booths. Um, and all I did, like I said, I was recruiting entrepreneurs to sell our services or products, and you know, showing them, tried to show them a way out of doing it in the payments world. Wasn't talking real estate. So kind of attracted me a little, you know. Yeah, I had this you know very minor portfolio of real estate stuff, but I'm sitting here teaching the benefits of being an entrepreneur and and but in the payments world and showing them, hey, you can make these, you know, these pennies on a dollar of every credit card transaction coming through. Um, and you know, there was people, you know, I not to pat myself on the back, but I probably helped create, you know, uh probably close to 20 millionaires um doing just their recurring revenue. You know, they the people, you know, I would get anywhere from single moms to single dads, and they, you know, they started from working full-time and just selling a couple of merchant accounts a month, you know, going door to door, whatever. A little bit, it was uh a little bit easier back then, you know, it's a little harder now to sell merchant accounts, still possible, but you know, that their recurring revenue went from anywhere from a thousand a month to doubling to five thousand a month, ten thousand a month, and then eventually, you know, we had some people that were paying a hundred thousand a month of recurring revenue that all you're doing is you know, just carrying and feeding their you know, just making sure that the customer service, and as I met my wife, who was part of the customer service team, was just making those people happy because in on our in our world, you just had a when you sold that service, hey, you just give them an 800 number and they call customer service to make them happy. So I always had this kind of recurring revenue, like, hey, the monthly rent, you know, recurring revenue. Um I was given a package um uh more than a few years ago, and always having you know, I like that small portfolio, I was like, all right, what you know, I let's jump into the bigger stuff. So um previous knowing, you know, especially with COVID happening, you know, kind of five years ago and not seeing the writing on the wall, I I did a lot of research on where where could it go now. And I started going around Lehigh Valley talking to a lot of different um brokers and real estate agents, and I believe I she can tell you I went probably looked at a hundred um a hundred different properties in Lehigh Valley. Um I think that's how I um one of the real estate agents kind of turned me on to you, I think her name. Um but she uh she turned me on to the Christine? No, not Christine. Um it's a husband and wife team who uh I have no idea. Yeah, uh but anyways, they um but that's how I I found uh I found you. And but through, you know, I know Joe's not a fan of picker pockets, but through picker pockets I found uh syndicator, and that's how I how I met Ken. Um so I got into a couple uh LP deals. I joined a mastermind uh because I kind of lost that mentor that that passed away.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_03:And I was just looking for a way to, you know, and the one thing but and before I joined it, you know, it was a perfect sales pitch to me because I was looking for smaller stuff. Um I was looking for two, three, four family stuff, and the one thing that they sold me on was like, why do you want to, you know, why do you want to live in that space? Let's go a little bit bigger. And um, and sure enough, uh I doing these things, meetups, networking, finding people across the country. You know, my first deal um through that joining that mastermind was a 16-unit deal down in Greenville, North Carolina, with a guy in Colorado who was a psychologist by trade, so he's still a psychologist, and that's you know, the kind of was like a domino effect where once we got that first deal, we were able to do um three more properties in that one calendar year. And um, yeah, like over 250 units in that one year. Wow. Yeah, so that one shot. Uh I mean, it was all you know, all part of the education. You know, if you ask me about syndications now, I was trying to tell uh tell them before, like, you know, I'm not you know, I I would uh I would probably, and you know, some of the questions you'll ask me later about who who would I follow now and what books I would read, I would probably pack off of the the higher unit deals, I would go back to the smaller unit deals kind of stuff that you're going to do.
SPEAKER_01:So time and place.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. Um and definitely crunch numbers a little bit better. But um but yeah, kind of kind of brings me up to to now, and now I'm trying to uh it's kind of funny. I went went to a meetup that you spoke uh you spoke at. Um over a year ago, uh I I said to my wife, I was like, uh, you know what? We got all right, kind of we got all these units, we got everything going on. And it's it's funny, one of my partners in the deal we closed back in May, he's like, Well, it's great. You have uh all these millions of dollars of property and you know assets under management. He's like, Yo, we can't eat our equity, just sitting there. You know, it's like like okay, we can look at a bank, and I'm like, oh yeah, you're right. What do we do now? So I I kind of look at um more businesses. You know, we have all these different businesses set up. I have a bunch of my CPA loves me because I have, you know, it's great because I I have I'm a GP on deals and I'm an LP on deals, so I have 22 K1s coming in, and it's a real big pain in the ass.
SPEAKER_01:Um they love you for sure.
SPEAKER_03:Oh yeah, yeah, especially when they're building, you know, all the time. But um so uh I think it was well over a year ago. And I said, all right, let's let's start looking at some other things. And it was funny from from all the networking stuff, and I think I told you the VA, I had a VA help me out with my LinkedIn profile, and all this all this networking, and there was this guy, this uh this one guy kept reaching out to me for well over a year, um trying to get me to buy businesses. And I was like, you know what, Dave? I was like, you're the most persistent guy I've ever met. I was like, I'll I'll give you 20 minutes on a Zoom call. And he finally got me convinced. So then I ended up buying an insulation company, believe it or not. Wow in Jersey. So I bought five territories uh out there, and I have uh a GM um and uh and a sales guy, you know, starting that up and what a what a small little vending route that we're trying to that my wife and I are trying to trying to figure out if that makes sense. So we're trying to try a couple different things and see if uh you know, as we're and we're still looking at a property, it just has just uh it's a rough um with everything happening out there, like I said, May was the last deal that we closed in properties, but uh nothing's really that great, I think, out there right now. Yeah, a crunch of numbers we didn't like any of the numbers you can see. But so that's kind of where we're at right now.
SPEAKER_01:All right, there's so much I want to dive into. First, before I dial all the way back, what where are you at right now? Meaning, like, where's the portfolio sit at this moment? And then I want to go all the way back.
SPEAKER_03:Um I'll give you the bad news. Well, not bad news, but uh we just sold a property in Baltimore. It was um 64 units. Nice um and uh got nothing out of it, clearly or not. So we we uh closed on it. Uh as one of our partners says, we left the little beat on the bone for um for someone else to come in there and finish off the rest of the uh I think there's maybe 30 units left that needed to be turned over. Um and we just got out of the loan and you know, we paid, we got our investors probably back. Um we we promised them you know the whole apron, we did the whole thing, you know, the whole presentation of you know the 2x and everything over seven years, but we we went to them, got on the call, and said, hey, basically, what's it we're gonna give you back probably about 16% on your money all in, but it's probably better for us to get out of this deal. It was Baltimore, we were kind of convinced uh that someone knew the the area a little bit better than they did. I was more of a kind of you know, I hope that guaranteed alone, so kind of me, I was like, all right, go out of it then. Yeah, um, so called bad news, but there was nothing we need to make anything out of it because it's kind of break even. So it's kind of like we take the good wins and your bad wins. Is it it was it was good in the sense that okay, that was the only exposure we had. We didn't come out of pocket for that, but uh we we lost a lot of sweat equity there. So we lost a lot of time and you know analyzing a deal going down there or doing stuff like that. So um, but yeah, we're we're gonna make sure. So where I'm at right now, like over 700 units.
SPEAKER_04:Awesome.
SPEAKER_03:Mostly um mostly in a set mostly in North Carolina. Um Jacksonville, two big properties in uh uh over 200 units in Jacksonville, North Carolina. So big um, it's actually not just Camp Le June there, there's a couple other uh couple army bases there too. Um big military presence, actually only about less than 40 percent are actually uh military that we have uh in there. Um and then we're in Greenville, North Carolina. Um that uh about an hour uh hour east of Raleigh. Uh the mayor is our um our property manager there. So we have a little inside inside track there. Uh property in um in Maryland is actually a school is uh uh yeah, just uh just for student housing for uh for a college, a college name off the top of my head. Uh it's in Maryland. Um went into Cater, Georgia, and Montgomery, Alabama is the one we closed in May of 96 units. That was a really good nice deal there.
SPEAKER_01:That's awesome. So all right, I want to go all the way back, right? So you were in the business world, you were kind of looking at real estate, kind of had a little portfolio going before you went like all in. So my question is there's a lot of people here that are either starting or might be in the businesses or on one side of that, like what skills transitioned over and what didn't per se? Like, did things help you from that world go into this world?
SPEAKER_03:For me, um I'm very comfortable in this environment. So I'm okay with networking, so I'm okay. So I had a I had to pick up the phone. Not necessarily, you know, if you ask me, you know, I hate cold calling. So for me, it was always what could I generate? Um, how could I generate and and so let me qualify that a little bit. How could I generate the call to me? So if there's something I could do in a marketing, so that's why like I got a VA for LinkedIn stuff. So if I could get if I could get someone to email me and then I make the phone call, I don't call that a cold call. I call that at least a warm call. So at least that's part of my networking process. So at least in a in a trade show or in a networking environment, someone comes up to me where I can shake their hand, that's easier for me to do than for me to pick up the phone and say, hey, you know, hey, this is John. And you know, same thing like what merchant accounts or anything else. I'd rather have them call me and then at least, you know, it's kind of breaking down that barrier, and then that person is probably in a more um they're probably looking to be sold as opposed to me trying to sell them. So that's the way and it and it and I do believe in a lot of energy transfer. So my energy changes if it's if it's me trying to sell you as opposed to hey coming in, coming into my world.
SPEAKER_01:So I like that. So I mean on a base, it's kind of like okay, taking these systems, creating a system out of this process and actually making it work for you rather than just dive in and doing whatever.
SPEAKER_03:And you know, you can make the argument like, well, you know, picking up a phone and making a phone call that costs no money, but you're you're setting up a system could cost all the money. Yeah, but you're investing in yourself and you're you're investing in a couple different things. So yeah, I do spend money on a VA, but he's he's making you know that smaller investment is making that that happen, it's making that you know, making that system work, and then it does pay dividends.
SPEAKER_01:Love that. All right, another thing. So I want to go through some of these terms in case someone doesn't know them. VA. I mean what is a VA? Virtual assistant. Okay. So anyone that doesn't know, we have a lot of set of virtual assistants. It's somebody that is not physically here near us, right? And they work for you in some capacity. Um so many benefits to that, just all over the place. So different routes, syndications. Someone's like, what is that? LP, GP, what are you talking about?
SPEAKER_03:Limited partner versus general partner. So a limited partner is just, you know, um it's just you know, basically, when you reach out and uh in the in the whole syndication world, um, basically just give them money to this, you know, we'll do a whole different plan, you know, Cole has done it. Um, and basically, you know, you're given uh a certain amount of money to buy shit basically shares of this you know this property. So I mean it's their actual shares, they're actual, it's that you you know, you have deeded property, you have shares of this of this property. So at the end of the day, you can say, yeah, no, I do own property, even though you know I might own$25,000 worth of a property in Asheville, North Carolina. I could I could show it, I can show the pictures. That's it. That's my that's my property down there. So um, and the limited partner. Now the general partners, those are the guys, those are people, guys and women, those are those are people running running it. Those are the ones who went out, uh, did all the legwork, they found the deal, uh, they put the deal together, everything from loans to you know finding the property managers, uh, you know, even the construction crews doing a lot of turnovers. So those those are people, so those are people that the LPs are putting their trust in that hopefully that not only you're getting cash flow uh during the whole process, but at the end of the time, whatever whatever that means at the end of time, whether that means they're gonna refine uh or whether you're gonna sell turn that property over and give your money back, and you're gonna trust that that process and all those numbers make sense. That one go over it, uh that really makes sense. So hopefully explaining that a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:Love it. No, just exactly to say it differently, very simplified that I always love when someone told me this is there's people that are like the doers, they're really good at what they do and they love it. And when it comes to the real estate world, like they're meant to be running the deal. They're just they love it, they're passionate, they're good at it. They're your GPs, they're the people that do everything. And your LPs that for whatever reason they are doing something else with their time, that their money and time isn't spent running the deal. It's basically a mistake for them to do it. So you have people that are doers and you have people that are investing in the people that are doing it, and they just go together and everyone pulls their resources and do it. So it's in the case in a nutshell.
SPEAKER_03:But the and the LP part of it is um, and what I told people who who invested with with our team before is you know, the beauty about being an LP is you can be an absentee landlord and not have the negative connotation with that. So it's not like you're a deadbeat landlord, it's you're gonna be making money, hopefully, you know, whatever the the payout is, normally in our stuff it's quarterly, but hey, you're gonna be getting checks quarterly, depending on you know, we were trying to do 8% for returns, and you're gonna get that until hopefully our exit plan. So that's and then we're like, oh, wait a second, you mean I don't have to get the phone call? Like, no, you don't get the phone call uh of a pipe bursting or a toilet running or anything else. That's somebody else that's dealing with it. Yeah, like you said, the doers and the uh you know the people that just sit back and hopefully just collect the funds.
SPEAKER_01:Yep, and I'll stand behind it all day long. I always say this to people, but like if you're not an active investor, that's not it's not what you want to be. I think the LP investment is the best thing you can do, hands down in any investment strategy whatsoever. I don't think it's beautiful. And you go to make your argument that they're gonna actually sometimes turn out better than the exactly. So all right, answer me this. So you started with zero doors at one point, and now you're at 700. What were some challenges from going through that journey? Like where were the major hurdles? And did it go in segments where it's like hurdle, easy, another hurdle, or was it just different things?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, sure, yeah. Um, so what yeah, you're you're just constantly, you know, so in the beginning, you feel like you're doing everything yourself.
SPEAKER_01:I was gonna say maybe break that down, like beginning hurdles, middle hurdles, and hurdles.
SPEAKER_03:So beginning, you're you're almost it's you're very raw. Like you're like, okay, so I was going and looking at and and walking properties here in Lehigh Valley. So going east of Allentown, going everywhere else, and you're just trying to, you know, you're looking at all these numbers and you're and you're putting out um just doing what you normally do at a regular house. You're just you know putting out these offers and doing everything else, you're signing all the all these things, you're getting rejected. It was funny. The the one guy that I really took to, the broker out here, he was like, dude, you're losing the loss of Wall Street. I'm like, maybe like they were just outbidding it. And it's like, I'm like, I'm getting it close to what they're asking. And he's like, Yeah, forget it. Like you're just losing out on them. So um I realized that one of my skill sets, the the one hurdle, was I wasn't good at it. I wasn't good at finding the deals. So I was like joining the mastermind and getting set up with um well called a friend now, you know, that my partner in Colorado. He was good at finding deals, um, not necessarily here, but in in North Carolina. The nice thing about him was he actually went to medical school in Greenville. So he that's where he got his psychology degree. So he kind of had some intimate knowledge. His wife did, uh, I think his wife went there. Asheville school there, yeah, too. So she got her psychology degree there. But any case, he he had a lot of uh intimate knowledge of uh of Greenville, so he did a really good job of selling me, saying, Hey, you want to partner up on this? So it was gonna be a three-way partnership. That's a really good story, too. Um three-way partnership where I was actually only going to be a 19% um uh investor in the deal. So we weren't gonna syndicate it, we were still gonna JV it, uh joint venture. Uh but um and at the last minute was funny, she was using IRA, um self-directed IRA, and for some reason, I forget what the loan company was at the time, I don't think it was Lima 1, but they actually rejected her self-directed IRA, which makes no sense. What? Yeah, at the very last minute. And we were we closed the deal on the 31st of January. So we found out the day after Christmas that they rejected her. And yeah, so he called me up in a panic, he's like, We're gonna lose this deal. And I'm like, wait, what do you mean? He's like, Well, they rejected uh her her funds, or anything you can do, and I was like, You gotta give me 48 hours. I had uh okay, I had some stockholders that I was able to move some money around, so I was able to come up with a deposit for that first deal. So then it was just being the two of us were 6040 split where I ended up with 60.
SPEAKER_01:So that's awesome.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that was just a weird story. Like, that's so weird. How the how do we not know that? We had we had it until October when we signed the paperwork, and then we didn't find out until how many months later. But that's all the crazy stuff. That's lending.
SPEAKER_02:No, for a self-correct IRE, you can't you invest in a property, right? You can't use like you can't be like you can't invest in your own property. You can't it can be a little bit important.
SPEAKER_03:Oh yeah, you know what? You might be right about that. I might not have been the loan company, right? I at the time uh Scotty told me it was uh, you know, it's my partner. Yeah, Scotty told me I thought it was a loan company. Oh yeah, you might be right about that. You can't well, no, right, you couldn't be a GP, but it was a joint venture.
SPEAKER_01:You can invest, but they'll hit you with taxes. You're allowed to do it, but they'll nail you. From my understanding.
SPEAKER_03:So I know Advanta, but so Avanta is another company that I was working with. Um they told me I couldn't GP and use my IRA money.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't do that.
SPEAKER_03:In a joint venture, though, you said yeah, all day long, and you could use it for construction, but you didn't say much anything about taxes though. I don't yeah, but I it depends.
SPEAKER_01:It depends. Um, yeah. Well, it's interesting. One of the reasons I don't keep going, but I like that it's one, you said you put in the hard work, like you did the things out of the gate, and you're like, okay, let's put in the hard work, let's put in the reps, and let's figure it out. And then two, you're like, okay, I recognize I'm not good at this piece of it. So let's find other people that are good at that piece and let's partner. Some people can do it all, and that's awesome. Other people just aren't good at things, and find other people that are good at those things. So I think it's awesome. But um so that was kind of more entry stage. So keep going.
SPEAKER_03:Uh it was funny because uh my wife reminded me the other day, she's like, you know, when you when I first, you know, as I was looking at at all these properties, you know, I still felt very raw, very green, but like I didn't know what I was doing. She was like, she's like, you know, when I woke up at 3 o'clock in the morning, she's like, you were on your iPad and earbuds in your in your head. And she's like, all I saw was like the syndicators I was following. She's like, so I saw Jason on your screen, I saw Puey and you know, Kemon now. She's like, I would see them, she's like, you were watching syndication or real estate video, you were following bigger pockets, you were following all these different guys, you know, all the different like so she's like you were doing it, you were constantly having it um you know in your ear, and you were watching it anytime you woke up. So it was um I'll always say education's there, and you know, it was uh whether it was David Green or Brandon Turner, yeah, whoever, whoever it was when I was I was just looking at all their stuff, and and it was cool because at least there was there were 10-minute snippets I could hear and then fall asleep to it or whatever, or listen to a podcast or something in my ear, or grab a book or something from Audible. And I was always trying to what did I miss here? If I could just grab one snippet from somebody that was important. So that was kind of the education process to see what was working. Because that you know, to me, it was okay, I got a little bit of an aesthetic to use, but I also have to take care of the family. So, what could I, what kind of sweat equity can I give here that that could work? So I just want to make sure that you know, I didn't think I'd be good at like because I had so many rejections, you know, uh, you know, close to a hundred rejections on in Lehigh Valley, you know, can I rely on and and use you know my partner to find stuff, or even you know, he had a network of people too that he was looking for. So that kind of once that happened, then I could just back off and be like, okay, hey, listen, I'll be boots on the ground, oh check out check out properties, I'll I'll link up with people that are good at doing this stuff, and then maybe you know, as we find properties, you know, I'll I'll you know, I'll network with those brokers too.
SPEAKER_01:You know, that's awesome. So once you started getting some serious traction, right? You get a bunch of units under your belt, and you're trying to get to that next stage because I feel like there's a lot of hurdles on that entry, and then as you get traction, there's different hurdles. And it depends on where your situation. But is there anything that you ran into after that? Just different types of things that someone here on like the mid-levels, like, what should I prepare for?
SPEAKER_03:Um well, just like in that one example was in the loan example, something you know, something a lender will throw. You know, in that example, we don't know, you know, was it with the loan company, it's probably the IRA company that's saying we don't want, you know, we don't want this. So when you're raising money for a syndication, could be on the bigger properties, you know, how many millions? And all of a sudden at the last minute, you know, you're at that last 200, maybe you raise three million and you need another 250,000, and that one person, you know, I had I had a okay, I'll give you one hurdle. I had I had I was telling my partners I had 600,000 raised. And in the last week, about two weeks to go, um all fell off. All 600,000.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my god.
SPEAKER_03:One of my other partners to come up with so and one was a family member that he was committing 250,000. And then he didn't even tell me, he told um we had we had one of our one of our VAs like reaching out and just making sure everybody was getting all the paperwork was getting in. We had all our syndication attorneys sending out um everything they needed to do. We used a we used a company called InvestNext um to get all that. It was basically like a document.
SPEAKER_01:That's a portal, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's a portal um to make sure all the paperwork was coming in. But the 600,000 that I lost right in the last two weeks with a friend, a family member, um I freak I forget who else, but right at the last minute. So we had to come up with 600,000 and like I'm sitting there holding the bag, like all my partners, like, oh shit. So it's like, so those are the kind of things, and that's why I'm kind of sour on syndications lately. Uh rather rather join ventures to rely on myself and partners I can trust because yeah, it's better and and the bigger deals too. Like it's um one of the things I'll sure been gets this question anyway. What do I like doing now? I like the smaller deals because my my smaller units in Greenville, I'm getting better cash flow and better appreciation than the bigger ones.
SPEAKER_01:Like, so explain that, dive into that now. So, smaller deals, what does that look like? Why better cash flow? Why better appreciation?
SPEAKER_03:So the 16 unit deal, the very first deal. We were able to turn those units over quicker, you know, because obviously 16 units not, you know, a lot of um quick to turn those over, and we were able to um increase those rents obviously a lot quicker. So we we it was and these numbers will get you like we had some units that were sub 500 bucks for uh one bedroom. That's awesome. So we had we had uh yeah, that's eight one bedrooms and eight two bedrooms, and um the one bedroom ones were like 485.
SPEAKER_01:I just see money there. I'm like, oh that's amazing.
SPEAKER_03:Like yeah, and and we um we turned these over um fairly quick, um, probably under 18 months. That's great. And yeah, each one is now going our cheapest rent is like 985. Double it. So I mean we crushed it, and and like we were able to we cashed out on a cash out reply. We were able to you know get all of our money back. So now it's just it's sitting there um just making money. The bigger ones were just sitting there, we're just waiting, you know. And it's funny talking that talking about Joe before, where you know, there's a couple of our our bigger ones where we're just barely breaking even because we went from like a you know a four, not maybe a five seventy-five like loan that's now you know they tried to hit us with like 10 and a quarter at the end of like the three years. So you're like, okay, now you just crush this because now that the mortgage went from like a$60,000 mortgage to a$90,000 mortgage, yeah. And we're bringing in$93,000. It's like, okay. So that's like let's pause all the, you know, we have like 30 units that we have to go on 124 unit. Let's just pause there for a second and and wait till you know we get caught up a little bit. And we're actually, you know, we're going for financing. Hopefully we'll we'll secure it in February. But you know, we go for agency debt a little bit cheaper, and then hopefully, you know, bring it back in. But now you're on a pause on the bigger ones. That's why I like some of your deals because they're like nicer, a little easier to manage.
SPEAKER_01:Manageable. But it's funny because just on that note, like uh and it sounds like you'll agree with this, but I'd be curious to hear again. Is there's like the I don't know, let's say two to fifteen, two to twenty space. Like I would say it's like small multi, then there's like your mid multi, like let's say twenty to ninety-nine ish, give or take, and then you're like hundred plus. And I feel like the hunter plus is just so incredibly competitive. It's one, you're overbidding for it, then you the rates changes, you get crushed on rates, and depends how you play it, but it's different. And so to your point, I think like the mid-multi, like I found that you're playing with a lot of mom and pop owners, so you can really still play the small multi-game, but in a little bit bigger sense. But the cash flow is still there and the appreciation is still there. So it's good to hear that.
SPEAKER_03:We got lucky in the Jacksonville property uh 96 unit um because it was it was a legacy property. It was parents died, giving their kids, and they had no idea what they were doing. And they're basically not that they were running it into the ground, but they didn't know you know anything about they had a bad PM, and um we just got it. And it was the the nice thing is we got it within uh about 18 months ago. So we were stuck in this high you know interest rate, and when we crunched numbers, it just works for us because now as the interest rates go down, we're in a good spot. Um we raise enough money uh we have good cash reserves to to flip a lot of those um turn those units over. So um if you're able to pick up properties in the past, you know, in a situation especially like that, where you know kids just want to catch out, like, hey, it's our inheritance, get the hell out of here.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's a perfect situation. So yeah, it's so funny because in like a weird perspective, I used to always think like these deals have to be gobbled up at some point. Like there's no way you can always find a deal. And I used to have that like scarcity mindset, and then it's stories like that that brought me out of that, like you could have this perfectly performing property that nobody can touch, something tragic happens, the parents die, the kids get it, it's gone, it's back on the market, it could be a killer deal. Like it just always happens. So it's just a piece that like if anybody is thinking like, okay, deals are gonna be gone, I gotta hurry, whatever, like it's gonna happen to find them. Um two other things I want to talk to you about is one, raising money. Um, I guess specifically you talked a little bit about the challenges with raising. I've gone through so many different challenges with raising, but you said you're kind of shying away from that in a way and going JV. But in your experience raising, what did you like and what didn't you like with it?
SPEAKER_03:Um, well, you know, it's you don't you don't want to you don't want to look at you don't want to be the person be like, you know, the brother-in-law who has the new deal, you know, like hey dude, I got a great, you know, I got a great stock tip for you. You know, you kind of I don't know if you want to call it sales one on one or whatever, you know, just that's why I kind of use the LinkedIn. Sometimes uh Facebook, not so much. LinkedIn is a better probably platform for for more business minded, but um, but I would I would kind of use my VA for probably every third post that I posted on Facebook. So so then eventually I once again get them to call me, where some people be like, Oh wait, I excuse what are you doing in real estate again? You know, you get that phone call. So then at least it's I'm not asking you for money for this deal. So at least when they're coming in, we're like, oh no, hey, we're doing this stuff. Um I I use the you know, kind of give them the whole story about the apps to the landlord. So um, so yeah, I I'll always use LinkedIn, and and if a deal comes in, then I start pressing um or or have my VA start pushing out stuff on LinkedIn, start putting it on Facebook saying, Hey, we're gonna have um, so here's the deal, take a look at it. It's gonna be here, let's say it's in North Carolina, Greenville, North Carolina, it's gonna be over X amount of units, um, and we're gonna do a presentation on this particular come on a Zoom call, come check it out, reach out to me. If we're gonna do a meetup, maybe uh I'll have you know I'll have stuff out here talk to me about it. So it's about getting that that marketing out there. Once again, I I I hate to do it. I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna go out and and go to my call list. You know, a lot of people um I never really had a good good time with any of those uh emails, um email lists, and you know, my my VA is like, dude, let's do it. It's like you just flashed out your um so I've had more success just doing the LinkedIn stuff, but that is the next level of you know, take your email list and blast out. And then that also generates the the quality or email and hey, tell me a little bit more about this stuff. Uh it was funny. Um someone reached out. Uh we have no deals on the table right now, and someone reached out, like, hey, I'm looking to invest. I'm like, all right, hold on a second. So we we might have something, or I could I can refer you to someone, you know, like uh but that's awesome. That's kind of that that's now that that's how the technical thing. Now they have more followers on the team.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So you did a lot of the raising stuff, and now you said you're like, okay, I'm a little bit tired of that. So how come?
SPEAKER_03:Um, well, that one losing 600,000.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um yeah, it just and and the situation with the market right now. So um we haven't really been able to find a deal, so I just haven't been in the mode. Plus uh buying a couple different businesses. My mind's been over there.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So um I kind of relied on my partner. If he finds a deal, he'll call me up. Hey, you ready to take a look? He did find a deal um a couple months ago back in September in bowling green. Um we went through the whole process, we took a look at it, and it was really a bad area. And then we just decided to punt on it. We we did, we gave the whole um, you know, we put the deposits down and everything, and then we realized we're getting some really bad uh bad price out there. Let's let's back off. So um before we went into the whole raising the money thing, we were like, ah, let's just better then than after that, though, after the money.
SPEAKER_01:Um that's awesome. So, one last thing I want to go through, and it's it's I talked to so many people, even this week, that have been like, I want to invest out of market. I want to invest out of market. What do I do? And so talk to me about that. So, what do people need to watch out for if they're gonna invest out of market? What do they need to know? Just give me like a crash course one-on-one on going out of market.
SPEAKER_03:Um your research, you know, uh educate yourself, just make sure that there's uh a good track record with whatever team that you're hooking up with. At least you know, at the very least, um, someone on that GP team, that those general partners, someone should be that's done it before. Um and and do your deep dive, you know, see like make it all make sense. Uh you know, have someone else look at those numbers for you. Um, I had you know, uh like it's a couple friends of mine, even though a friend uh backed out of it. Yeah, this financial planner look at it, and we're like, hey dude, it's a great place to park money for five years. You know, so we had he actually had his CPA and financial planner look at stuff. Um, but just make sure that there's uh a track record, that it makes sense, that you know, take a look and and jump on any that they should be available to you if you're you know willing to give any, you know, and there's anybody can, you know, sometimes it's 25,000, sometimes the minimum 50,000. You're gonna give that kind of money um somebody that maybe you don't know, maybe you do know. Um just make sure you do your research. Like, you know, uh I I had a guy at the meetup that I ran um back in October. Um this guy took it in a stride, he's a friend of mine, um, but I didn't know. Um he he lost money and he was an LP in a deal and he just took it in the stride. He's like, Yeah, he's like, What am I gonna? He just that's exactly what he said. He's like, hey, what are you gonna do?
SPEAKER_04:Wow.
SPEAKER_03:I'm like, what are you gonna do? Like they're like, yeah, he's like, I got no recourse. He's like, I lost the deal went south. They took away. I was like, Wow, I was like, You're taking this kind of and he just shrugged his shoulders and I was like, I I didn't ask him how much he lost, I'm assuming at least 50,000. Yeah, I was like, dude, that's a lot of money to to you know throw away kids and I'm like, wow, okay. So but yeah, do like be educated, do it like and make sure at least someone on the team knows what the hell we're doing.
SPEAKER_01:I love that. I love that. All right. I got a couple questions. I like asking every guest I have here. You can ask succinctly or however you want. So, one, what separates top performing investors from the rest of the crowd?
SPEAKER_03:Um I would I would say education, but I wouldn't I wouldn't say um not necessarily formal education. I don't care if they want to warrant or anything. Just someone who has talk to talk and walk the walk. You know, someone that you know who has been there, done that, you know, has a t-shirt, uh, you know, knows knows what they're doing. Um those guys, you know, they they've been around, maybe they've been around for a while. You know, I I never I remember when I was a junior sales guy and I couldn't figure out why, you know, my say my VP, my VP of sales, why wouldn't he give me the bigger accounts? I couldn't figure out why he was always giving me to the senior guy. Like, I can do all that. I'll do the follow-ups, I'll do you know, and then when I became a more senior guy, then it then it my eyes opened up a little bit all the time. That's why I didn't know how to do this, or I didn't know uh follow-up didn't mean picking up the phone all the time. It was some of the other things. They write down, it's funny because you don't know that one. But um, you know, and and you know, investors in real estate um knowing that market. You know, you you you just can't, you know, even though you're saying, hey, investing out of market, sure, but what do you know about it? And and you have to rely on that team or someone in that team, you know. I put a lot of faith in, you know, the mayor is our you know our property manager. Yeah. Okay, yeah. So I think he knows that town pretty well, you know, and and politics aside, you know, he he knows what's going on there. He he probably can you know hit the right levers for us if we if we uh we need anything. Um and and also the same thing, you know, uh those guys put together a great team. So um that's that's what I was saying about how it break investor, you know, who uh that's someone you want to follow and pay attention to.
SPEAKER_01:So good. What is a daily habit that contributes to your success?
SPEAKER_03:Uh kind of gave a little bit of a uh snippet before, but um and my wife could attest to this. There's always an earbud in my head. There's always look, it's attached to me. Literally attached to me. It's literally attached to me. So I'm always listening. I try to I try to balance it now. So I'll either listen to a you know a 10-minute pot uh comedy podcast or anything with golf. Uh, but I'll I'll always have an audible book um that I'm in the middle of, um, some kind of real estate thing. Um, but I try to always uh it's just a daily habit. Even if I wake up in the middle of the night and I can't go back to sleep, I'll pop it something on the computer and my company stuff.
SPEAKER_01:That's awesome.
SPEAKER_03:So I always keep it. I always try to educate something.
SPEAKER_01:I'll always trust someone that's constantly listening to podcasts to the extent I jumped in one of my buddies' cars the other night. We're going somewhere, and like in the background of our conversation, he's just listening to like sales scripts. I'm like, can you like turn that off for just a minute so we can talk? Like, you know. Um Brad, what is a piece of advice that you give to yourself if you're starting again? One thing.
SPEAKER_03:Um start sooner. You know, start that um don't be uh and don't be afraid. Uh I think that was afraid because I didn't have any money because I was a kid you know that had debt coming out of college that I couldn't do anything. And and there's you know a lot to be said about doing some sweat equity. Um yeah, we didn't have going back 30 years, you didn't have the YouTubes, you didn't have the Googles or World. There was actually meetups though. I went to them. And I I probably should have done a lot more more networking and and trying to figure things out. So you didn't need, yeah, you didn't need that. So I would I would always say, you know, so much easier now um to get involved in all this stuff. I mean, we're we're throwing, I mean, Joe's throwing like three more meetups before the end of the year. So I mean, so um, and and you're always you're always throwing it. We always got one. There's always something going on. I mean, it's a rough time of the year because it's the holidays, but you know, there's always stuff going on somewhere. I mean, even closer to our house or you know, the at the other brewery, there I mean stuff always going on. So yeah, get get involved and and get over here and and just collect some business cards and be like, you know, and and um and it doesn't, you know, you don't have to join a$20,000 Tony Robbins mastermind to get that information. I'm sure they're great. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm sure he's you know he's a multimillionaire for a reason, but um they have you know, uh I know uh if I say bigger pockets, Joe might not like me. But uh what I do now. Um but uh there's other ones out there. There's there's I mean follow Cole. He he's got some great great advice. There's so many, there's there's so many good things out there, so much information out there that that's that's so great, that that's mastermind type of level stuff that you can you know that you can glean and and people and and anytime I picked up the phone, especially when I was uh when I was trying to find out some information, um people will give you, will help you out.
SPEAKER_01:Everybody will. Yeah, yeah, especially people in this room.
SPEAKER_03:Keeping you know stuff close to your chest, they're helping you out. You know, it's like you're not asking for money, you're just asking for advice or some kind of help with something. And they're willing to give it.
SPEAKER_01:I love that. Do you have a favorite real estate or business book?
SPEAKER_03:Uh so I guess everybody always starts with Kiyosaki, right? So it's you know, Rich Dad Poor Dad.
SPEAKER_01:Did everybody here read Rich Dad Poor Dad? All right, just it's a prereq.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so that's that's how it starts there. Um and the other one I did write, uh just make sure, because I actually uh was on a podcast, uh not a podcast, we did a meetup, uh virtual meetup. My buddy was able to grab Brian Burke, who um who did the hands-off invest. He was so good. Um, we had him for about an hour and a half. It was funny. I was flying back from Florida, so I had to watch it and talk to him on my on my phone. But I was like, there's no way I was letting this guy, you know, he was so good. And it was kind of funny. Um, I think this was in uh in the summer, uh, this past summer. Um, and it was it was kind of the conclusions I was coming to at the beginning of the summer when I was beating myself up over these our bigger deals are just taking longer to get to any kind of appreciation or anything. And um, and I was telling my other partners I'm like, all right, let's back off a little, let's go sub-50 um on our unit counts, and let's tell our brokers we're gonna do any kind of deals, uh, let's JD them, let's go under 50. He said the same exact thing in the in the and I think he's like, we were asking him, like, what would you do now? He's like, I'm going sub 40. He's like, I'm not touching anything. He's like, I'm not syndicating any deals. He's like, if I find a deal, it's gonna fall into my lap and it's gonna be sub-40 units. And I was like, I was like, Did you hear that? I'll be here. So um that's a really great book, and I and I threw it on my Kindle, I got a hard copy, and I have, you know, I have um you know, yellow uh highlighter, you know, stuff that you can do.
SPEAKER_01:That's awesome. Yeah, I have the book, I haven't read it yet. It's in my to read list.
SPEAKER_03:There's some good stuff in there. There are really uh there's some chapters that are really, really good stuff.
SPEAKER_01:That's awesome. All right, my last question for you what is your favorite part of real estate investing?
SPEAKER_03:Um it's funny uh I think it's it was Carnegie that said like 90% of your uh millionaires come from real estate, but it's not just about the money, it's it's what money represents. It's it's the freedom, it's the free like you know, any any time of W-2, it's exchanging your time for money. So at least if you if you know you you've got the engine going, it's you know, it's you know, it's not hitting the lottery, but it's you know, it's it's that it's a means to an end. It's it's you know, it's getting to that to that freedom point. So it's uh it's there. And if if that cor if that stat is correct, 90% of the people in the world who've gotten there, you know, so it's it's gotta at least that dream is there, and and that's kind of you know, like I said, from a little kid and seeing that Italian immigrant who who had you know was a fix and flipper and now had like five you know, multifamily properties, uh, these guys are still alive in his 90s, you know, you have to do something right, you know. So um it's kind of it's kind of like that dream seeing you know how that you know that that time freedom is probably what I'm what I'm looking for, spending more time with my family and doing things I want to do.
SPEAKER_01:That's awesome. That's absolutely awesome. Any questions from anybody else? None?
SPEAKER_00:Um talked about like a little bit with like buying other businesses and stuff, and you kind of hinted to like the market not being kind of what you want it to be. Are there like any tips on like other businesses that you buy and like insulation on other things? Yeah, um, but then like uh also sub question on that, like for cash flow or just for uh doing something or career purpose or all right.
SPEAKER_03:So you want to laugh about the so I got into it, so I actually franchised um the installation business. And the only reason why I did that is I could come to Cole and be like, all right, let's start an installation business. And on Monday morning, be like, all right, we started a business. What the hell do we do now? You know, it's like so I I jumped into and that guy that that was telling that story before that reached out to me about buying businesses, he was the guy that wanted me to start or showed me a bunch of franchises. He showed me about 30. Um I I I teared it down to two. And the only reason why I fell in so they have to disclose uh when it's a franchise, they have to disclose a lot of things in a in a franchise disclosure document. I just fell in love with the numbers for this uh particular um because it was funny, I was I was talking to a buddy of mine who has um an HVAC company uh commercial in Jersey, and I I kind of and I had the the whole thing, you know, the whole paperwork out, and I was like, Paul, take a look at it. He's like, I don't have to take a look at it. He's like, he's like, buy it. I was like, what? He's like, he's like, get the franchise. So I was like, I was like, I was like, I didn't even show you anything. He's like, dude, he's like, you're gonna make a lot of money. He's like, he's like, and the other thing too is no one wants to do insulation. He's like, so if you if you're gonna put it into this, he's like, it's incredible. He's like, every time, he's like, these guys are busy all the time. He's like, I'm I'm telling you, it's it's a really good, it's a good thing. So um, so yeah, I I did it for cash flow, and it's a funny story. My uh uh cousin owned um uh he owned he still owns three downloads pizzas in New Jersey. He had uh five at one point. Um but when I was asking him for advice and stuff, uh going back a few years, um he had it all set up and he he said a line to me about um I was like, hey, would you ever would you ever sell? Not meaning to me, I was just saying in general, would you would you ever sell? Just in you know, just cash out, you know, you take some chips off the table. He's like, Well, why would I kill the golden goose? And I was like, what? He's like, yeah, dude, because it pays for my phones, it pays for my cars, pays for my health insurance, uh, pays for my family, you know, it basically pays for everything. So he's like, so why would I kill the golden goose? And I was like, oh wow. Uh and and that, you know, another trigger in my head. So I was like, oh yeah, let me let's let's do something like that. I have a family. I you know, I could sit here and wait for my real estate stuff to pay off in five to seven years. But um, yeah, let's start, you know, I have some, you know, with a toddler at home and and taking care of a wife, you know. Not that I have a lot of time, but let's let's start taking a look at some other things out there. And and like I said, uh that that business consultant reached out to me and said, All right, let's take a look at this. And there's some other businesses out there that are that are interesting that once I get this one rolling, I might take a look at. Um, there's a really good spa concept out there that I like, and we'll talk to Joe about that. But spa, yeah, spa, yeah. Um there's a really cool one, uh, and I'll talk to Joe about this one later. But um yeah, they have a it's I call it a spa, but it's not really a spa where um they're doing individual um if you're a haircutter or someone does nails or somebody does massage. Uh suit. Yeah. Spa suit.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, spa suites.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So it doesn't affiliate. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so that's getting big. I don't know. I don't know how long ago it came out, but to me it seems like only six months ago. Yeah. Um the problem is the SBA has a loan on that account.
SPEAKER_04:Not that I would go through, but primarily building it out.
SPEAKER_03:Now the cool thing about that is being someone who was in real estate, is uh when I talk to um my franchise consultant, he's like, dude, he's like, you get 5% turnover a year. He's like, you need one employee. Um and he's got six of them um in the southeast. He's like, I got one employee in each. He's like, I basically have six employees, and I have no less than 30 units in each. So he does them in strip malls. He doesn't do it like where he was talking about in a bigger city, he just does them in strip malls. And he's like, I got no less than 30 units in each of those with one employee. And um the concept is insane because basically sometimes you're taking kids that are coming right out of uh beauty school and you're you're pitching to them the entrepreneurial spirit. They're basically just saying, hey, I'll give you a business in a box. You got yourself a little suite. I mean, it so like the person who cuts my hair does it. She's got a sink, she's got, you know, puts up a little refrigerator, she has a you know, a little spot for cutting my hair, and she has like a chair for if someone else comes in there for um if they're doing for uh getting hair called or whatever. But each suite is only you know maybe a 12 by 12, and you know, and she buzzes in from the phone. So it's like a whole suite where you buzz in. So it's a really cool concept that I'm thinking about um maybe down the line, but as I try to, but it's a cool, and but when they told me the turnover number, I was like, that's insane because we have turnover all the time in our apartment complexes.
SPEAKER_01:That's awesome. One more question.
unknown:I mean uh is that your LP in all the projects?
SPEAKER_03:Every project that I have I LP and also.
SPEAKER_04:Are you concerned about the difference right now?
SPEAKER_03:And Java I I kind of agree with that.
SPEAKER_04:Um three year, five year, or seven year one, or ten year out of equality.
SPEAKER_03:We're well, all of our stuff is value added. Uh some of them is some of them are. Uh we are looking for agency debt on two of our properties. Um we're close to closing on one or closing on two of them in uh in February. Um but yeah, we're yeah, we're we we got slammed on a couple of them. We got we had a sixty thousand dollar mortgage that went to a ninety thousand. Um we're basically better for the are you focusing on V level or C level uh uh we C and we try to bring them to C plus B. But uh also in that area where we are in Greenville, um you know you're an hour away from Raleigh and you're in a college slash pharmaceutical. So we're kind of we're still able to get good rent increases. And we found um, I was telling you before about Section Eights. Um there's another program that North Carolina is doing in addition to Section 8s, I forget what it's called, but they're um it's actually a little bit um very similar, and we're getting um very very similar program, and we're getting some really yeah, yeah, it's not the veteran has a backlog right now a lot of those carry areas.
SPEAKER_01:Love it. All right, well, look, we'll keep the conversation going, but we'll wrap there. So, John, thank you so much for coming and just round applause for him. So thank you.
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