We Had to Change Football Teams 🤢 Officially Unofficially #24

Ipswich Town is now Reform FC - poor Cole. 

In this deeper-than-usual episode we discuss Farage-gate at Deportman Road, who's the wokest and, like, actual real conversation topics. 

We'd love to hear your thoughts on any of these topics. And drop us a 5* rating while you're at it to OWN THE LIBS!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This is the first time I've worn this Ipswich kit since the stuff. Are we being too harsh on your boy Nige? Exclusive Ipswich Town 2627 away kit leaked.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Goodness gracious. It is cool, Cole. It's a Monday. It is. Um and we are recording another episode of Ipson.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Sorry, why are you saying Monday? Because one, we're not recording on Monday, it's actually Tuesday. And two, this will go out on Wednesday.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Well, there goes all of the fucking like uh showbiz.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

But why did you say Monday? Because what are you trying to say? That we record on a Monday, which we're not, or that it goes out on a Monday, which it doesn't.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

We record on a Monday, which we do, but we're not. And it goes out on a Wednesday, which it will, hopefully. Is my plan. Okay, fair enough. You're trying to distract me. I am a little bit. I am a little bit. I'm gloating. I'm I'm somewhat gloating that my my football club, hashtag BorneRed, right? Pro unproblematic. Unproblematic king. Famous kingdom. Nothing has gone wrong. Nothing has gone wrong in the world of Liverpool. We are sitting on top. We are in the Northwest, Kings of the Northwest. Well. And yeah, you are I don't say you're in the doldrums.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

I'm hiding mine away a little bit in the moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Shall I reveal? Shall I reveal it for the lads? For any audio listeners, Cola's wearing a Reform FC kit.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

For any audio listeners, Cole's racist now. Cole is now a racist. I'm wearing literally my favourite thing in the world, and I feel almost dirty to be- This is the first time I've worn this Ipswitch kit since the stuff has come out.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

There were so many people who don't know what I'm on about an idea what the stuff is. So we we have to go into it. Because you're you're a proud Ichwit Ichwitch? You're a proud Ichwitch fan.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

I'm about as proud Ipswich fan as anyone, isn't it, Pepchan? Uh which most people are slightly ashamed, but you know, I wear it.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Could you give like the Well from the perspective of John Ipswich fan? I'll interview you. Oh, okay. From the perspective of John Ipswich. Yep. What the fuck is going on with your sodden little club?

SPEAKER_00 2:10

For regular OU listeners, uh, you would have heard us sort of touch on this last week, and thank you for tuning in every week if this is you. Um, shall I go from straight from the top? Well, what we talked about.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Let's just go through it because there's been more revelations as to why you're a race. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Yeah, true. Because basically, last week, right, what it turned out is that um initially Nigel Farage, who again, more context, if you're in America or whatever, he's like We're gonna have to keep zooming out here, are we? Yeah, exactly. So Earth, it says ball in space, space, big old black thing. Anyway, which is what reform hates. Which Farage doesn't like. Hey, nice one. Um so yeah, as of last week, as of when we recorded last week on Monday week. Monday, um, Nigel Farage, who is our Trump, basically, he wants to be.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

He's like Not a leader, but a far right, disgusting, melted little frogman. I hate his face. Racist, divisive, uh charlatan con man, has run many political parties. Uh, his party has been done for Russian collusion, literally, former leaders have been done for Russian collusion, um, who goes is basically in the in the media's pocket, much as Trump is in the media's pocket or was during the election cycles in America.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

And also much like Trump is him. Also much like Trump, there's all sorts of stories that quickly get forgotten. You're like, they let you all that from Trump. Everyone sort of forgets that because it's like, ah, it's done. Nigel Farrell a few kids. Exactly, allegedly. Uh Nigel Farage has has got his own of those. So, like, stories came out when reform was starting to make some uh progress in the polls that uh he was he was a racial bully. There was a there was a kid who went to his prime school and he sort of told stories of how Farage used to just wait for him at the school gates and bully him for being black. And all those stories.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Is the TLDR of him? And also, do you think there's any reform listeners or anybody that's hoping and thinking, come on, lads, that's a bit harsh. Because I would love to hear their argument, get in the comments. Are we being too harsh on your boy Nige?

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Are we being I'd love to know? Am I being am I the soy boy cuck?

SPEAKER_01 4:27

A-I-T-H? Am I the asshole? I don't know. I don't know. I think you do know.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

I think I think we both do know. But but so too does the you know, Reform Reginald over there. Um So yeah, as of last week on officially unofficially, uh, we'll do the intro soon. Um Nigel Farage. I was about to say it. Oh, okay. Should we should we do the intro now? As of last week on officially. Unofficially. The best podcast on the internet, dot dot dot. We support Nigel Farage. As of last week, unofficially, unofficially, that's because of the internet, uh, Nigel Farage had been to the club. He'd been to Portman Road, right? He went to the club. He went to the club, yeah. I'm sure I'm sure he has, but it's probably more the sort of like prawn sandwich club. I don't know what that's a reference to, but I'm glad that you got to enjoy saying it. Um we we Ipswich immediately said, nothing to do with us. So there were pictures of him going into the club, and he went on like one of the tours that you can do. You can do those at Liverpool, right? You can do those everywhere, right? Yeah, do them bloody everywhere, yeah. And Ipswich said, Yeah, not to do with us, but it's still quite funny. And then it led to us discussing like, can you ban any political figurehead from being in the club? Not really.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Potentially, but you have to do it for everyone. Whatever brush you do for one politician, you have to do for all politicians, unless you overtly say we are siding with this politician essentially. If you do something with Labour or like Greens or something, you would then need to say yes, because we agree with their views and we are happy with them using our club in their commercial marketing, which is exactly what reform started to do. And I can't imagine reform or many clubs actively want to do that at the moment for the aforementioned reasons.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Um so yeah, it was all like a bit of fun, championship subreddit, uh, who have been brutal by the way, and we'll show you some of those later. Uh they made some memes about us being Nazis. Everyone's having a good time. Do you know what I mean? But we sort of think fair enough. You can't block anyone from coming because then you gotta block everyone.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

There was like it was like pictures of uh like Hitler, uh like the Nuremberg address with like 500,000 Nazi in front of him, and it was saying uh, you know, the chairman addressing Ipswich Town fans, and it's like just straight up a picture of Hitler. It's outstanding. Well, one of them very funny.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

One of my favourites, this is from the top. This has got uh 1.7,000 upvotes from a from a neutral subreddit, uh, which is exclusive. Ipswich Town 2627 Away Kit leaked. You can you can probably guess where this is going. So it's so good. So from that point, Ipswich was sort of softly associated with that stuff, but then, right, it turned out that the video, or that they made this video, they made this reform video, okay? And we're not gonna show it because we don't want to show reform's video. Can I jump in and just challenge how you say reform? Oh, yeah, yeah, no, you're right. It should be reform. Yeah. Okay, sorry, that's okay. You always call me out when I it's because I don't really listen to interviews. I read all the time. It's a genuine thing. I think it can happen a lot with um.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

I just want to jump in and get a bit of the comments of you saying reform. Sorry. Yeah, no, that's fair.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

It is reform. No, you are sometimes I'll argue back, but you are right on that one. Um anyway, whatever, right? So they put this video out of Reyform, uh, and it was Nigel Farage, and he had like six Farage 10 shirts, and he was going about the annals of Portman Road. It was full HD. It's not like, oh hi, I met Portman Road.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

It was like a proper camera, like clearly a crew and lighting and mics.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

And the the uh the Portman Road had its lights up, you know, I had to follow through. He was like looking at our honours board, going, oh, being next, and he was like, um, fucking, oh, in the uh changing room with the six Farage shirts next to our players who are foreign, by the way, on either side, and they're in it as well, so they're in all this reform stuff. You see the sponsors in the background, you say halo, you see tingly teds from Ed Sheeran, and everyone's thinking, that's not unofficial. That's not him sneaking in under the cover of darkness.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Yeah, that's way more like, oh, this was a thing. Like, this wasn't just someone going for a tour. Because I've I've been when I did some work at Wembley, they were doing loads of tours when I was there and we were like filming stuff. And it was really weird when like people would be walking around, I was very, very lucky. We were sort of like as you're saying, in the annals or the little roads within. We were hanging out in one of the rooms, and then we'd have to like go through and film some stuff. We'd we were then wearing the England kits and walking past all the tours, and they were like taking pictures of us thinking they must be important. Because they're wearing England kits in like the tunnels of Wembley. Obviously, we weren't, we were like esports. I think you're important. Um, thank you. And then as we were filming like out on the corner of the pitch, they would like the the tour would like walk out of the tunnel to then go on like next to the pitch, and they'd play like uh um like sound, like crowd sounds and like cheering and like music as if they were the players walking out, which I thought was really cool. But they did that, I heard, about 20 times, and it was just the same music that they've clearly got somebody there waiting to, and we pressed the button as they walk past, and it goes like or whatever. So to convert walking out.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

When you did this, it was of a camera crew, right? Because you were doing it for England easy. Any chance that camera crew could have not been spotted? Were they like sneakily holding their cameras, or was it more of an overall camera lighting?

SPEAKER_01 9:48

And ours was very like uh I guess a lot more chill. Like ours had sort of a lot less shots, but we had lighting, we had microphones, we had a relatively large camera, two cameras, and a photographer. Because that's the other thing. They had videos and they had stills. So that immediately is two people already with big fat cameras round their hips. You could not sneak them in.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Uh so this this all comes out, um, and then uh, you know, more memes are coming out. Here, here's another one which I'll which I'll send to you. Read us through this if you can explain it for anyone who doesn't quite understand football.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Okay, right, let me give it a look. Um switched to adopt new tactical approach ahead of Birmingham fixture, and every single player is located on the right wing.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Which is good, which is subtle and it's good. It's so good! Also, even my beloved, my favourite Northern Irishman in the world, Kieran McKenna, who is completely innocent and neutral in this, he's just our manager, he's just doing his job, he's now catching straight about all this as well.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

It's like Kieran McKenna inspects his new signings ahead of the 26-27 campaign, and it is some Nazi officers walking down some Nazi uh like soldiers who are SIG hailing at him, and it is they quite frankly, they are dripped out to the gills in Hugo Boss.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Now, let me say this first. It is funny. I've been I've been upvoting these you have to laugh, right? Because, you know, if I'm there going, oh, not my club, then I'm gonna be going insane, right? However, we've got promotion push going on at the moment, right? You know, we're up there with Middlesbrough and Millwall, it's like a proper three-way battle, okay? There is no way, no matter how much management of anything, I know I realize a lot of people listening to this won't care about soccer, won't care about Ipswich, you know, might not care about sport in general, but whatever it is, if you're in business, if you're trying to employ it. Whatever your thing is. Whatever your thing is, try and, you know, m translate it to that. There is no way that Kieran McKenna won't have seen some of these. Kieran McKenna, who's your day's focus, he might not, he doesn't have social media, he's not scrolling Reddit, but somehow he will have seen his name. Someone would have said it to him going, darling, have you seen this? Do you know what I mean? What they're saying about you now. Yeah. If he's wife since we're more ever, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:55

There is no- I'm sure he slash Ibs, which also have lawyers. Yeah. Like that will then be just they'll be very aware of what goes on with the club's branding. Like, holy fuck, using the club's branding for reform push, which is extremely anti-immigration, extremely far right, it very anti-trans, very anti-everything, of which it's which have aligned themselves with, thankfully, on the pro side of things, they're like, we are very, as a lot of football clubs are, which is very good, we are very inclusive, we are pro-trans, we are pro this, we are pro that, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, pro LGBTQ plus. Like, and to have him cutting about and using it for promotional material is crazy. And Cole, there was the big revelation of maybe it's which were telling some porkies as to how this came about.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Yeah, so the Athletic um said they'd spoken to Reform's people, and Reform, uh, and bear in mind the club had said we didn't know he was coming, uh, we didn't print those shirts, he bought them. Fair again, fair enough, you're not gonna not print them out. It's sort of, you know, as long as it doesn't say a slur, you're just gonna print out what it says. It might be someone's name, right? They still should have flagged something, maybe. Probably, probably. But it is basically it turned out. Um the six shirts were gifted to him. Our CEO Mark Ashen had had lunch with Nigel Farage beforehand. This is after they denied meeting him or knowing he was there officially. Um he was actively invited by the club. Ipswich Town said, Hey Nigel, here you're in the area because he had some like thing in Clackton or something, or Nacton or whatever. Um and then they said, Yeah, come and do a come and do a thing at our club.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

So when you say the club invited him, it was the CEO slash C O O, I believe. So would you like that to also be the club inviting?

SPEAKER_00 13:45

Uh I would To the outside world, yes. To the outside world, as we've seen of all these memes, and we can find another couple in a little while, because they are all very funny, it has to be said. They are very funny. Um any it's put it like this. If if if um Watford had done it, I would see Watford as the racist club.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

I would conflate Watford with with the the club of Watford, Watford Limited, um, inviting the guy. Yeah that is that is their thing to do. I think because it's a CEO and if if the CEO, I think, had lunch with him at a restaurant and then gifted him some shirts and then they did like a photo shoot somewhere neutral, but still with some Ipswich Town branding, that is different. That's a different thing. It's still not good, but it's a different thing.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

To do it at the ground is outrageous. Imagine if your colonoscopy had a Tory little logo and they put that out on billboards.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

It's not good.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

That is honestly how it feels. Like, oh, they're my bowels, leave them alone.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Come on, man, get out of my bowels, you guys.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

They're my anuls.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Get out of my annals.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

It's really invasive. It's really invasive because it it tars the thing that I, you know, outside of my loved ones, love most, it's which town. It tars it with that brush, and Mark Ashen has made the decision to tar it with that brush completely because yeah, he's given them full access. And and then as well, right? So internally, you said it's at the club, it's not the club as a whole, because um it transpired that staff members had complained about this to the HR department, players have complained about this, and I bet you, again, statistically, the st some of the players, they're wealthy white men, I bet one or two of them sort of would vote for Nigel Farage, right? But probably keeps it to themselves, right? Whereas now that rift is thrown right in there. So from on the city of the city. In the middle of promotion. In the middle of promotion, off the picture is as well, you know, they're gonna say buy a season ticket next year. No.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

No.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Or fuck yeah, I love this club.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Yeah, there's my new do you know what I mean? Like either one. What are the chants gonna be like? Uh, because like so what is it? So the next fixture with Birmingham away, is that what it was?

SPEAKER_00 15:48

We're at home.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Oh, you're at home. Yeah so there's gonna be a very rowdy away bunch. I reckon they've got Google Docs up the wazoo of different chance that they have got. I'm sure that there will be lots of vocal reform voters in the Ipswich uh crowd. And the Birmingham crowd. And the Birmingham crowd, who will be uh cheering and chanting for um for reform. Many will then be going against. I think there'll probably be a very increased police presence because of that. It is, it's a it's a it's a it's a real time of it uh at Deportman Road.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Well that's gonna that's what people are calling it Deportman Road, uh, which is very simple.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

Deportman Road is brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Which is very similar to the uh next meme that I've just sent you. Meme check.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Yeah. Uh 2627 Ipswich bag, just badge just dropped. And it is the uh can you share the badge real quick, Cole, on your chest?

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

It's a it's a it's an orse. An orse within sort of like a castle eat cresty thing. Yeah. And they are stomping on immigrants in a boat. Instead of a ball. Instead of a ball, they are stomping on some immigrants.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

So then, yeah, so within the Birmingham fandom, you're right, the away lot, some of them will be Farage. So if if Birmingham fans start chanting out about it, other Birmingham fans will be like, what do you mean? It's great they've done that. And then they'll start fighting. And Ipswich fans, stand up if you hate Farage, why are you standing up? What are you- Why don't you accept my. Do you know what I mean? Suddenly, like the whole fucking thing is on fire. The whole thing is on fire.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

And then the club can't then. Because the club now post, they now can't say, We don't stand with the abuse that happened. Because people that reply saying, Yes, you fucking do, because Mark Ashton was there supporting reform and invited him to Portman Road. It is gonna be a fucking shit show, and I for one cannot wait. Do you wanna be evil at how fucked this is? Well, also somebody we've got somebody in our streaming community who's a um a big uh Norwich City supporter. He's fucking loving it. He's having a great time.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Wait, Norwich played a blinder. Like Norwich just tweeted out the day after, like, Norwich is for everyone, full stop. I like that. I thought that was brilliant. I thought that was an excellent post.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Didn't they also tweet out something like um, yeah, we'll be like double checking our tours or something. Like something like that. Yeah, I posted in the sports channel, yeah. Like they were saying, yeah, we're gonna make sure that um uh uh if you book tours, you have to do it under your name. Fair enough. Which I think is funny. I think it's funny as well.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

I think it's totally fair for for Norwich to sort of swipe it switch for this. I tweeted out, I tweeted out after all this, after the reform video came out. Um I quote retweeted and said, like, now I think about it, at Norwich City isn't so bad after all, Dr. Holly. And that is for any American what's hang on, let me just Google the biggest rivalry. Yeah, the Buffalo Bills. Imagine saying that you're a big fan of the um California charlatans and and saying that.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

It's like um Trump going to a Boston Red Sox uh uh the the stadium and then with the CEO and having all of the all of this uh stuff around it and then promoting it, and then the CEO is like, yeah, whatever, blah blah blah. Um and uh then the Yankees fans, if you can imagine such a thing, not the Yankees, they then get involved and they start uh you know throwing shit back at the Red Sox. Because go, if you can imagine such a thing, for more than 120 years they've been rivals. So quite new then. Quite new, quite a fresh one. Quite a new one, but that is the oldest, most famous rivalry according to Google. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Okay, there you go. So yeah, imagine throwing their baseball in the wrong hole for the wrong team. But also again, it would sow that division because if the Boston Red Sox would not that there's a fucking away contingent in American sports, which is one of the main things that's missing, but whatever, we'll we'll get to that. Um say the Boston Red Sox went to the Yankees stadium, a lot of them will support Trump, or a percentage of them will support Trump. So now if there's all this like fuck Trump, fuck Trump, or if someone else goes, no man, I love Trump. Then instead of focusing on the baseball, they're focusing on Donald Trump, right? And that's when you then start having all these packed up people volatile for the Super Bowl. They want the Super Bowl, they want the Super Bowl to catch it in their glove mitt.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Because if they catch the golden Super Bowl, they win the Major League Baseball tournament. The worldwide. They win the world. They become world champions of baseball. And it's such an old ri a fierce rivalry of over 120 years. That started in the 1900s, don't you know? Jesus Christ, that's 27 years ago. That's 27 years ago it began.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

So that would be their oldest building. We can all laugh at America. Um, apart from Lazarus Farage, who is like cozying up to him and Trump. Um so yeah, the upshot of this is that our CEO, Mark Ashton, posted a video, like, you know, a statement from our CEO came on the club. Big apology.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Big apology is a very sensitive time, isn't it? And so he needs to make sure that he's being uh making sure that he's getting everything across, that he's being very heartfelt, and that he really shoulders a lot of the blame for the animosity and the trouble that has come to the club that he is CEO of and is ultimately responsible for.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

So wait to be fair, he did say, I I want to say I'm very he's he's he's Brammy, I want to say I'm very, very sorry about what's happened. We have made mistakes. We will learn lessons. Oh a lot has come out from reform. Uh there are many mistruths. I won't elaborate. Not the word lies, that's good. No, no, no, no, from them. He's saying there's been mistruths from them. Oh, from reform. Yeah, so basically what I hate the term mistruth. The official line is that what they've said we've done, i.e., gifted the shirts, had lunch with him, invited him when saying we hadn't all that. We basically said, yeah, that's not true. And people have gone, okay, and what is true then? We're not gonna say. Genuinely. That is the official line That's the official line! Fish burn for 8 million pounds a year or something. You know, big CO money.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

They're saying, okay, reform of lying. How so? Ah. Sorry, what do you mean ah? No, no, yeah, yeah, they're lying.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

Oh, in what way? Ah Well, if you could if you could just tell us, that'd be really helpful because they would be able to put that in in black and white.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Oh, that phrase. We should move past it. We should work together to move past it. I'll tell you another one I don't like. Now is not the time. I hate it. Now is not the time. I hate now is the time. I think that's applicable. It's family drama at a funeral. That's the only time. Well, I'm thinking, unless they were really bad. But at that point, I would say, shoulder it. Let's just deal with it later. Let some people grieve. But that's the only time where I'm like, let's not. Or like a wedding, maybe. It's like, come on. Let's not make an issue here.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Wait, I'm gonna make so many issues at your wedding. No, but that would be awful of you. I'm gonna stir the pot. Make it interesting. Again, we've discussed this before. What's more likely to be remembered? Yeah, what's more likely to be remembered? You guys walk down the aisle and it looks beautiful. You got tears in your eyes. Everyone goes. Thank you. I will cry. Oh, yeah, I know you will. Or your mum and dad bringing back years old beef. Who left whom? That's way more interesting. That would be interesting. Shouting out down the aisle.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

And my mum like walks past, bitch.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

Huh? It was him.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

You say bitch and point at my dad. He said it.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

I don't even agree. I barely even agree.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

I barely agree. Hang on. Yes, that's been your like that's been your big beef at the moment with the with the mighty mighty witch.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Yeah, so I I do want to sort of like because I mean I said to you before that I don't want this to be an Ipswitch special. I want it to be generalized. Because it's a topic that people are interested in. Um I personally, but I I play football every Wednesday, like indoor sort of pickup game, he's just whoever rocks up pick teams, whatever, right? Yep. I didn't wear my Ipswitch kit last week. I probably won't tomorrow. Because Well, there's there's so there's a lot of um I live in a very white area, but I don't know, don't know how, but where I play football. Oh, design, isn't it? Sure. I was right. And accidentally, where I go to football, there's there's a lot of immigrants, I believe there's a lot of African people there. Who knows how much of this they've been seeing and keeping an eye on. If I rock up in my Ipswitch stock, I'm going, uh bleep blue. It's a statement. I'd be wearing a statement. Mm-hmm. And that's so It's so horrible. It's it's immoral for that to be the case. It's backward.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

Yeah, I think it's one of those things where it has broken through. From what I can tell, because I'm also sort of I'm out of the championship like uh news. I've managed to get that through you. Yep. I think I would have heard of it through Twitter and Reddit otherwise. Um, because I have seen it on my feedback. Again, I have no idea like what came through naturally and what comes through because I see you post about stuff, so I have no idea. Um I mean, I think it it's it's it's a bit of a spooky time anyway. As how would you rate us on the wokeometer? Um, you more than. Because I'm I'm the woke one out of the two of us.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Well, you keep a closer eye on it. I think I sort of I get on of it a little bit. I just You're pretty up there though.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Like if you consider yourself among among, yeah, like among the like average of people, like if it was that I'd say zero out of ten on the woke scale doesn't mean that you are full right. I think that just means that you're not that woke. I think zero is the average amount, is like the average person.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

I guess average that's a very woke thing to say.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

I guess maybe it's a minus ten to ten, but I suppose at that point make it zero to ten. So that's why yeah, yeah. I guess the number doesn't actually matter. Um so um said Donald Trump. So five um would be the average amount. I think you would be something like uh you'd be up there as like a seven.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

Yeah, I'm I'm I'm I'm a natural seven, I don't follow it as much as you, and I'm not as knowledgeable as you. So often I turn to you for this sort of thing. I just sort of want everyone to get on with it, really. Do you know what I mean? It's like it's weird to me that the thought of not keeping people alive when you could and not feeding children when you could, and spending money on war instead of like instead of feeding people, and uh it's also the logic of it all. It's like an America. Do you know what I mean? Oh, this this child has been born of XYZ. We could fix it now, we've got the injections, we've got the technology, it would cost us, it would cost our society $100,000, say, drop in the ocean. Do you know what I mean? That is like one fucking AK-47 bullet. But no, we won't do that. What we'll do is we'll just not lol, and then over the years, this child will end up mentally ill and homeless and and and end up being Which costs us a lot of money. Exactly. But no, let's not do that.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Short term, baby.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Even in the selfish sense, what you're doing?

SPEAKER_01 26:32

What you're doing? Oh, so Cole, I have found I found uh just a quick one, a nice woke quiz. How woke are you? So we can do this together.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

No, let's not do that.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Come on, yeah, out of ten, okay, there's ten questions. I'll take more of them. That's too many.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Is this what you were hinting at when you said I've got a thing?

SPEAKER_01 26:48

No, no, no, I've just thought of this. So are we? How woke are we? And I want you to give like your answer first, and then I'll I'll I'll chime in with mine. Because I imagine generally I would outscore you, but just because I would have I I have stronger opinions on things, but I think we lean the same way on a majority of things. I think we do as well.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

Are any of them sort of the you know those there are those questions that you just can't answer correctly? Whatever you say is wrong. Oh my god, mate. Why are you doing this?

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Question two question two feels weighted.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

No question two is a heavy hitter. Do any of the questions involve the word penis? Can I just ask? Is the word penis?

SPEAKER_01 27:32

The second half of the quiz becomes So question number one.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

For fuck's sake, man.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

How woke are you, quiz, call car? I hate this. Number one, what is most important to you? Here we go. Global equality above all, supporting my fellow citizens, ensuring everyone has equal rights, or I'm still figuring it out.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Oh, that's the worst. The worst. What if what if it's my own money and my own personal game?

SPEAKER_01 27:56

There's there there's there's no like scale, it's just one, two, three, four. So, most important, global equality above all, supporting my fellow citizens, or ensuring everyone has equal rights. One and three do seem similar.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

I that's the thing, yeah. I I'm not a fan of the wording of this one. I guess if global quality above all? I'd probably go with number two. I sub I like to support people. I want everyone to sort of be supported. I don't want people to be homeless and sad or have support their fight. They all feel very similar. Well, they all they all feel very abstract.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Support everyone or make sure that everyone has the same right. They feel sort of one in the same. Yeah. Let's go support my fellowship.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

No, no, no, I disagree. Everyone has the same rights. I mean they all have it's basically pull yourself up by the bootstraps, is what three is saying. Whereas one of those. So equality versus equity term. Something and then justice. There's like the the picture with standing on the box with justice league reference available now for the room. Free. Good game, very good esport, would recommend.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

What's your view on turbans? What's your view on turbans, mate? Just a quick one. Fine, we should all wear them. What is your oh more turbans? You're you're bought in by Big Turban. Um, what's your view on religious attire like skull caps or turbans? It's a personal choice. I support freedom of attire, mainly for my fellow citizens. Everyone should wear what they feel comfortable in. These are all the same and not to have an opinion.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

So it's basically woke, woke, woke, clearly racist. Couldn't they have given us a scale of racism? Woke, woke, woke shit. I'll give you an example. Um I don't know what the main burqa thing is, right? Not what I think, but other example how this question would be better and really make you go, oh my god, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

What's the the main burqa? The complete like only the I'm not sure what that's called, but that's the one with the eye gap. That thing. Should you be able to wear that one? Showing ID. That's one, in my opinion, people go, ooh. Because you can't.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Yeah, I guess on the hypotheticals and stuff, yeah. But I can only go with the quiz that you've got. I've clicked on the quiz, do you know what I mean? Yeah. I can't go back. You can't change the quiz. That'd be woke. But you can't change the quiz.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

What are the options again? It's closed.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

It's woke quok woke or not woke. I'll go with the second woke, please. It's a personal choice. I support freedom of attire, or everyone should wear what they feel comfortable in. Uh I support. I guess the third one's almost like a passive action.

unknown 30:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

The third one is like where you feel comfortable in.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

I guess like yeah, freedom of attire. Freedom of attire. I I think again the the slight difference between one and two is I think what it's getting at is in some cultures the the male would dictate what the female wears. Do you approve of that? Do you do you approve of that um control? Are you problematic to not approve of that control? And that leaves you down the whole paradox of what is it? Paradox of um un Where it's like Yeah, basically where it's like um I can't remember the term. Where basically I support reform and you have to clip that. Yeah, brilliant. I support reform and you have to approve of that, or else you're unaccepting.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Oh, the the tolerance paradox.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

That's it.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

For a tolerant society to exist, you have to be intolerant of intolerance.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

So then it's saying, do you tolerate the culture where the male would say, no woman, you will wear this and not be seen, or do you tolerate the culture where the woman chooses to do it?

SPEAKER_01 31:04

And that's the At that point you're then in sensitive their religion, which is not very woke of you. Yeah. Yeah, I get what you mean. Um what is your understanding of privilege? Privilege exists in many forms and needs addressing. Uh majority privilege is a factor in every country. It should be acknowledged and tackled for equality. Oh, I'm learning about it. The last one is basically uh. In all I've looked at the last one for all of these is uh. Um I think that the third one, it should be acknowledged and tackled for equality.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

I don't think I'm instinctively against the idea that some people are born to rich families, some people to four poor families. Because if you are against that actively, is that then communism in theory? That's that's beyond socialism, right? Because socialism is still I've worked bloody hard and made some money, so I can afford nicer things than you who have hasn't, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:56

Socialism is more there is still uh probably between us, between us. Um and I could Google and yet. Um the socialism, I believe, is when there is still the government that is there to have richer people in society pay more of their way to then benefit those who have less money to sort of essentially even people out, but not like full communism, where I earn a hundred grand, you earn ten grand, and then we both meet in the middle at fifty. Like that's communism in the most basic sense, I believe.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

So I'm I'm definitely on I'm more on that one. Uh now I think about it, I'm just wracking my brain. I'd say in a nutshell, uh, socialism is a transitional economic system where workers control the means of production, whereas communism is the final ideal state featuring a classless, stateless, and moneyless society.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

There are cashless, I mean.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

There are some key differences. There are three key differences. You'd like to hear them just again if I'm off the top of your dome. Uh property in bold, colon. Uh socialism allows for personal property and collective ownership, while communism seeks to abolish all private property. It's a bit much, isn't it? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

That I I like having private property. I quite liked the money I got from that.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Any any thoughts on compensation in bold regarding the differences between the two?

SPEAKER_01 33:13

I'd love for you to tell.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

I'll offer you some. Socialism often pays according to individual contribution, to each according to his work. While communism distributes goods based on need, to each according to his needs.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

I guess I'm sort of a bit in, I'd say a bit in the middle. Yeah. Because like you could well to me it sort of sounds like there can still be the mega wealthy in socialism. Which I'm still not super into. Like, I think we said it before, somewhat uh jokingly, but that classic Reddit thing of your money should be capped at 999-999, and then anything that then goes over is taxed at 100%. I agree. That feels fine too. You've won. You've won. Yeah, you've done it. Good job. You hit the high score on the arcade machine of life.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

I think the thing as well is that I guess looking at these, I'll say the last one. So implementation. Socialism can be achieved gradually and democratically, whereas traditional communism is viewed as the result of a revolutionary shift.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

Nah, yeah, no, I lied democracy. Democracy is good. Even if democracy can be shit at times because of by-elections and such, it's still good to have. The people should be still be controlling what happens in their lives, even if it's shit, asterisk to an extent.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

The thing is as well that having some more questions, by the way. Yeah, these are good. Having some inequality, um Oh sorry, I thought you said they're good questions. I missed that what you said. I didn't mean to uh disregard what you said. Okay. Um having some not inequality woke response, I do appreciate that. Having some inequality isn't necessarily a bad thing in and of itself. For example, somebody starts a business, it does well, they buy a nicer house. Other people then think I could do that too. But as long as they have the ability to do that, and that's how the support comes in. That's where support comes in. Because if people are born in a place where no matter what they do, uh they are not gonna come far. Do you know what I mean? Like if you're born in an African village where there's no water, you're unlikely to make it to being a multimillionaire. Do you know what I mean? Whereas you or I born to I mean, I wasn't born to middle class parents. My parents are always very sort of poor and struggling for the next paycheck. But, you know, I'm I'm a white bloke in Britain, so I do have more advantages. So I would even out those advantages. But if you if we both make a business and yours is better than mine, you win, I think that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

There's still like the aspect of capitalism that I am still sort of fine with. There's an aspect of supply and demand, and that if somebody if my ultimately my business appeals to more people and I make more sales and ultimately do better and make more money, that is okay. So long as I am not able to take advantage of those and keep those below me, below me.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

So yeah, there should be more protections as well and and less CE onus, etc.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

What do you think about immigration?

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Uh I spot open borders for all. That's woke as far. That's too far. I think I agree with you there. Uh preference should be given to skilled nationals. Skilled, I guess a quite a charged term is skilled. Everyone deserves a chance to seek a better life. That's just a fucking hippie answer. And then, uh, this is a complex issue. I'm team hippie. Okay. You're team hippie.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

I'm team hippie, yeah. I'm team hippie. I think it I don't think it's a good idea. But it doesn't mean anything. Well, uh it's one of those things, again, where in theory, I'm team hippie. In theory, I'm thinking, okay, Boliv Bolivia is war torn. They've got 3.4 million people, so the UK, the UK and Germany and Spain and Russia and France and China, everyone says, Oh, I've got some space over here. Uh China says, Oh, the Shangziao province has got a few spare homes. They do you know what I mean? And that's my dream world. That's my la la la la.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Yeah, yeah, redistribute it a bit. Yes. I think skilled nationals is a tough term because I hate the term unskilled labour. Every single job is skilled in some way. True. And I appreciate it's just a term, and maybe that's me sort of trying to police it linguistically, which is not the point of the term. But I think it to me, it's calling a job unskilled labour, like working at Mackeys or something. I could not go in there and then do your job as well as you, day one, because you are skilled at your job and I'm not skilled at your job. There is a skill that you have got that I do not possess. Yeah. It is less skilled than engineering than you know, nuclear efficient.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

For the record, Stumpy admitting that working at McDonald's is less skilled than engineering and nuclear efficient is about as right wing and unwoke as he's ever been. So enjoy that. For our reform voter, for a reform Reginald at the start, he's like, Oh yeah, keep going.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Ah, yeah, I I think that there is definitely a um uh a line in which that's that that that does just piss me off. It annoys when it's like. Is it the term or the concept? I think it's the term, and uh which again, ultimately, nothing, but it can be used to keep people down. They say you know trained late, maybe, yeah, but I I think every every single job is a there is a skill involved somewhere. This reminds me of when. I and I think I've told you about this years ago on stream. I went on holiday with a mate, and we were like just kicking a football around. Um, so walking down, we were setting like a caravan park, and it was a great time, had a football, kicking it about, blah, blah, blah. And then um uh we were discussing like oh, like what's like the most important skill in football. And I at the time, I was like, oh, dribbling's like a really important skill, and he said, That's not a skill. I was like, sorry? I was like 11 and I was fucking incense.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

I bet he was so pissed off trying to rub his hand like it is Yeah, and I was like, Everyone can do it.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

I was like, no, they can't. What do you mean? That's an insane thing to say. Is he conflating like by dribbling? Did he I I mean literally walking with the ball, I would say that is a skill that not everybody has. Okay. I said, yeah, that's maybe like that's number step one of a thousand of dribbling, and that's walking with the ball, but it is still a skill to walk with a ball. And he was like, No, it's not, everyone can do it. And I swear to god, I wanted to drown him. I was so angry.

SPEAKER_00 39:04

It's the fact that there are so many different types of dribble as well. There's the um Luis Suarez who sort of bundled his way through opponents, there's Messi who goes pee-pee pew, and suddenly the ball was on the other side. Where the fuck did he go? There's Gareth Bale. Did you ever see Gareth Bale's famous goal? That's probably before you were into football. Where he went um there's a famous Gareth Bale heat pitch. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

This is a kick it like far, and he runs off and round the hit.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

It was against Inter Milan, where um I'll send you a screenshot because it has the real one and it has a funny thing as well. So I'll send you a screenshot for Google Images has shown. Uh it's the one on the left that's the real one, but this is uh what made me laugh, so I can put this up. There you go. So the one on the left there is Gareth Bale's actual heat map, where he did he basically did this, he prodded the ball into the centre, then he sprinted off the pitch back on while the other guy was going as the crow flies, he went in a curve, got there and scored. But the the willy one on the top right made me laugh.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

That's funny. Um yeah, I basically that annoyed me. And I think that basically any job has got a skill, and calling it unskilled labour only serves to benefit those who are in positions of power that can say, I don't want to pay you anymore because you are in unskilled labour, which I do not think exists.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

Interesting. I disagree. I I think well, I disagree with your um your solid terms there. And I think I think I don't think I'm gonna say anything that might you go, oh my god, you're right, but I think it's to me it's clear, it's in it's inherently implicit, but skilled labour is someone who has trained to do what they do for four years. A doctor has got a PhD, like you know, doctor's someone has got been in PhD for four years plus university, so seven years in total. Whereas your McDonald's worker doesn't need to train for seven years. They are more skilled, they are likely not necessarily more intelligent, but certainly academically will be a much more high much more highly trained. And I think it's too loose of a term. That's fair.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

If it's purely the word I like, I don't d I think where we disagree is I don't dislike the concept at all of I think it's just a scale of, and at that point, if you're saying skilled versus unskilled, I just think that the unskilled side of the spectrum doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

I get you, I get I do with that.

SPEAKER_01 41:05

That would be my point. I have a linguistic beef with it, and I think it serves to benefit those who are in power.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

You know me, you know me. If someone's got a problem with wording, I will happily hear that. I'm not gonna be like, oh, it's just the word. Like that is not how I feel.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Swindon, what are your views on immigration? Say again. What are your views on immigration?

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Give me the four options of which I can only choose.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

I support Borders for All. We don't agree with that.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

Do you mean open borders for all?

SPEAKER_01 41:30

What did I say?

SPEAKER_00 41:31

Borders for all.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

Everyone has to be.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

Get out of Bologna.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

I support open borders for all. We can both knock that off. Bit much, bit much. There has to be feasible. There has to be some it's too that's too loosey-goosey. Like whose hospital do you go to? Do you know what I mean? Kind of way. Yeah, it doesn't work. Yeah. Unforge. Unforge, unforge. Preference should be given to skilled nationals over people who are from war-torn places, I think it's more important for them to get out than I think it is for us to get somebody in who can do a bit of engineering. I well, I I guess I would.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

I was thinking if two people from war-torn Bolivia both want to come in and we have space for one. I know, right? They are they are being torn asunder. Um and and and only one can come in, I would pick the skilled one. Okay. If I could pick, hey, sorry. I guess that's horrible decision. Uh you, do you know what I mean? As they're there with their doctor, you know, their little Dr. Stethoscope, they're there curing cancer with a test tube. I'll be like, hmm, and the other guy is drooling. Sorry, fella. That's fair.

SPEAKER_01 42:34

Uh everyone deserves a chance. I I disagree with that second one for the record. Um, I don't think preference should be given to skilled nationals. To an extent, yes, but as a blanket statement, no. Yeah, if you had to choose yes or no, you'd say no. Yeah. Everyone deserves a chance to seek a better life. I can I like that one out of the four. Agree. Because the last one is I don't know. So I don't like that one.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

No, that's fair.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

Um, should non-violent crimes lead to incarceration? Something that I can say I've not really thought about much.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

Jesus. Okay. Is this pure thoughtful incarceration? Oh, do you know what? Yeah, sorry, give me your options first.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Alternatives to prison should be sought, only in severe cases impacting society. Justice should be fair and proportional, and uh Is that also what exactly is this wording for number four? Is it I don't know. This is too nuanced for me to decide. Jesus. So it's uh Okay. Altern let's let's go through them. Alternatives to prison should be sought. Generally, in rehab, yeah. Like rehabilitation is better. There are some people that cannot be rehabbed. I think there are some people that are utterly unfit for society and they should not be able to reenter after having left society by committing a crime.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

And if you're not one of those, make sure you subscribe to officially unofficially. Hit that button, hit like, post a comment, let us know if we're idiots, because I'm I'm an idiot in many ways. Um Yeah, sorry, that was just the first segway I think. I've really enjoyed it. I've really liked it. It's been good. It's been very good.

SPEAKER_01 44:06

Um, yeah, I th I well I mean I've also got opinions on the fact that prisoners aren't allowed to vote. I think that's fucked. Prisoners should be allowed to vote. I think it is so mean that they're not allowed to.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

It is a bit it is a bit mean, because ultimately any one vote won't really change it. So you might as well give them something. You're still in society, exactly. So you might as well give them something to feel a little bit of a vote. Can you after prisons, you know? Is it after you leave you can again?

SPEAKER_01 44:31

Unsure. There might be like a cooling down time. Yeah. Google it. Let's see what Groc says. Can prisoners vote UK? Oh, I'm at least we're gonna put AI afterwards. No. Okay, I've clicked on AI mode. Hold on. Uh large majority of prisoners cannot vote. I think that's so hard. It does feel a bit mean. It does feel a bit mean. It's so mean. Uh okay. Can they they vote when they're released? Let's see, let's see what it says. Um It says Yes, they can vote immediately after they're released. Okay. Cool. Okay, I I don't mind it as much, but I still think they should. Every single person, if they have the if they gain their right to vote by turning 16, they should then keep that right for life. I do not think you can take somebody's right away.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

What if they kill 400 children?

SPEAKER_01 45:21

Okay. They probably are they probably are not going to vote for the I want to kill 400 more children party.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

What if they steal from a thousand cancer-riddled adults?

SPEAKER_01 45:31

Every single thing that you say, I will say yes, they should still be allowed to put. Well, in that case, no. Like we have limits, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anything up to that. Should non-violent crimes lead to incarceration? Alternatives to prison should be sought is a good one. Because rehab, get them, keep them into science. Doesn't give much room.

SPEAKER_00 45:53

It doesn't give much room for sort of context over this question, again, does it? Because non-violent is like nothing. Someone else would be violent. No, someone else be violent on the way.

unknown 46:03

I don't think.

SPEAKER_01 46:05

Oh even if it's you on the the end user, as it were. I think so, because your the violence has had to happen for your crime to happen. Okay, okay. I believe that counts for violence. So it's basically just money stuff then. I was thinking, yeah, like fraud. Yeah, financial abuse, thieving. Is there anything else? Yeah, I guess I guess like money stuff. Are there any other crimes?

SPEAKER_00 46:29

Parking in the wrong place for too long.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

Yeah. Loitering. Are we forgetting like a big crime?

SPEAKER_00 46:38

Yeah, what's the category we've forgotten? It's money. Right, money stuff's locked in.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

Money. Kid stuff. Kid stuff. You know your average Saturday.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

That's the short stuff because average Saturday. Money.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

I'm listening my perfect Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

Um And once again, just getting battered by Birmingham.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

Yeah. Uh I don't know what else there is.

SPEAKER_00 47:00

Fraud. Because like animal abuse is physical as violent. And that includes like starvation and all the sort of more abstract ones. Yeah. I guess it would just be money stuff.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

The other ones then only in severe cases impacting society. I don't know what can impact society so much I think you should be in like prison for a non-violent crime.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

Well I can tell you. Um Red Nose Day, Letty Henry goes, We've raised 17.3 million pounds this year. It's gonna go to help kids in the UK and around the world, and Stumpy Goblin nicks the check and cashes it. You've impacted society in a big way, though.

SPEAKER_01 47:36

Yeah, that's true, that's true. Um Justice should be fair and proportional. Again, a floaty fucking answer.

SPEAKER_00 47:42

Sure, that doesn't mean anything at all.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

Yep. This quiz is I agree with that one, I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 47:48

I am gonna say this quiz is crap. I was really hoping it would be really tough questions involving the word penis that we could dance around for half an hour.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

I have got I've got I've got a quiz that I've had for a little while. I want to know how much. Oh yeah, so yeah, yeah, not this one. If you guys want us to do the misogyny quiz that I've had saved in my notes for a little while, then then we can do that. Um Alternatives to Prison Should Be Sort.

SPEAKER_00 48:09

Uh yeah, again, we should I don't like any of them on this answer. Go with that one. Go with alternatives to prison should be sought. Because sort means you can look for them and you can not, which is sort of what I think. So go with that one.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

Um I've got this next one I have a very strong opinion on. Okay. So should trans individuals be allowed in spaces corresponding to their gender identity? So you'll be against that vehemently, I imagine. Very against uh yes, trans rights are human rights. It depends on cultural and national laws. Everyone should feel safe and included. And I'm considering the different perspectives.

SPEAKER_00 48:48

So it's basically so it's basically yes, keep what's current, no, or I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

Essentially. Yes. I think the answer is just fundamentally yes, and I think that with this question, it's worded well in that it says corresponding to their gender identity. And it's an issue that I have had on social media and such, where people conflate sex and gender. As somebody who did a biological-based degree, they are two incredibly different things. Gender is the social construct, and sex is the biological thing. Okay. Sex is male, female, or intersex, and you know, the 1% of the population that is got different chromosomes and it is somewhere in the middle, but they have got their own thing going on. But otherwise, male or female, or then the intersex, right? And then gender is then the much more societal entirely the societal thing that is typically linked to your birth sex, but may not be later in life if you are then trans. And I feel like people cannot fundamentally agree on that when arguing for, not necessarily for, but like against trans rights. And that frustrates me when I f when we just disagree on what the definition is or the conflation of gender and sex. So that very much frustrates me. Um, and so yes, the answer to this, I am HO, and it is H O, it is a humble opinion. Um, that yes, trans rights are fundamentally human rights, as trans people are humans, and so therefore it just is.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

Yeah, I I think of of those four, I would be number one. I think maybe where I'm softer is I've I've seen I've seen women, like born women, be uncomfortable with trans people, like talk about being uncomfortable with trans people in their bathrooms, and others go, what? And judging them. I don't think I would judge those women for that.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

One's lift experience is tough to judge, I think.

SPEAKER_00 50:47

Say again, sorry?

SPEAKER_01 50:48

Like as in as in you you would say the same thing. I agree with what you said there. Have you said that yourself?

SPEAKER_00 50:52

People go, Oh, you're so anti-trans, you're so fucking like this.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

I can't say I have. Yeah. Um I've seen that there's just a lot of people speaking for women in a lot of ways. That's true, that's true. And saying again, it falls back to the reform thing of we're protecting women. It's like, what you were done for battery of your girlfriend or whatever. Like, so not really.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

I think that what You're not very good at it. What I hate most is, and this goes across the spectrum, whether you're left, right, centre, whatever, right? Is if someone has say you've you're a man of 12,000 opinions. Let's say on average, I don't know, set on average everyone has 12,000 opinions, right? Yeah, one of them is gonna skew one way or the other. The thing I hate above all else, I really fundamentally hate this from both sides, is if someone has an opinion that's slightly more on that side, left or right, doesn't matter which, people go, Oh, so you're that then. Oh, so you're that then, and they push them all that way. All the way, and it comes up a lot in the trans conversation where people go, yep, trans rights, human rights, yep, yeah, I believe you're women, but I do think they're gonna go, oh, you're transphobic, are you? And they push them all the way.

SPEAKER_01 52:02

That's a very big issue with as a huge issue in the left as a as a as a mental of the left. Holy fuck, it's so annoying. Yeah, I subscribe very strongly to don't let perfect get in the way of good. Agreed. Like, oh my god, let's not like when people in the US like not voting for Carmala because they were like, well, that's about this, you fucking moron, you stupid fuck. What do you mean you're not going to? Yes, she's not perfect. Fucking obviously she's not, because no one is. But the other person is Donald Trump. Like, you have to just put it aside a bit. It does suck that there are two options.

SPEAKER_00 52:43

It does suck. If you're in America, ultimately you've got two options. There's not five parties. Even here, you can have a protest vote. Green have got one MP, I believe. So if you truly They've got a load of MPs. I was like, oh, I thought they had one in the one sitting MP.

SPEAKER_01 52:57

No, no, no, they have loads.

SPEAKER_00 52:58

Well, there you go. Okay, so there's at least three parties.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

You're thinking Hannah Spencer, the one that was recently elected to Gordon and Denton in the by-election. I'm so I'm so out of touch with it all, mate. It's the one that was up like recently where like people are saying the big like reform are gonna win this thing, blah blah. And the Greens like, no, we're gonna fucking win it. And then the Greens won it. And it was like, wait, there you go, there you go.

SPEAKER_00 53:16

So yeah, in the UK, you you've got that. If you if you want to, you can vote reform, do you know what I mean? Like you've got Monster Avenue, there's there's options. Whereas in the US, it does suck. I imagine it fucking sucks, where you've either got Donald Trump, whom you hate, or Calan Harris, who you might hate. Do you know what I mean? Yep. But make the statement that we're going that way, because that's what I'm talking about as well. You don't want it to be either of these extremes, right? Because the extremes are extreme for a reason. So if Harris wasn't left enough for you, okay, but let's take the first step. It's like if I want to if I want to- one hand on the wheel. Exactly. If I want to walk to Bristol, I'm not like, oh, one step's only one step closer. I'm not taking that. I'll never end up in Bristol.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

Exactly. You're gonna be around anyway. It's like people like working out. It's like, well, you're gonna be here in two years anyway, you may as well work out a bit. Like that just makes sense. Um does make sense. But yeah, I I it's very frustrating. I do agree with you on that, and I think that there is the conversation to have. Ah, so also in the public eye, as we we discuss many things on our streams. We do. It's very frustrating when like you say something and then someone's like, Oh no, you can't say that. It's like, no, you can't tell me what I can and can't say, because I want to also have the conversation about it. I love having the conversation about the thing.

SPEAKER_00 54:25

Um I remember back in like 2015, we were unsure about trans people in in women's sports, which I'm still unsure of. It's still a contentious thing, and I think I've all the topics of all the topics, that's the one where I see people go, Oh, you're anti-trail. I think uh not to me, but like to others who've said, I'm not sure about that one. Hey, maybe I'll get myself cancelled. I'm not sure about that one. It does I can't imagine it's completely, completely fair to either party. Do you know what I mean? Like them, I know they say I'm sorry, quite like I know that um I've seen I've I've seen articles from scientists saying it is completely fair, and I think really I see some articles from scientists saying it's not completely fair, and that's fine. I I'm ready to be swayed, but the thing that I hate the most is if you know someone were to put that and people go, you're anti-trans, and they'll push, they'll push all the way to the other side.

SPEAKER_01 55:11

Yeah, that's my beef. I think it's also hard because it's like that is such a case-by-case basis. I agree everything should be assessed on, yeah, but then also so much fucking effort has been put into it. Like where they've just like banned trans athletes or trans women from competing in women's sports in the Olympics. And it's like, you know, that's happened once. Or like potentially never. I think it's either like zero or one. It's like that hasn't happened. Well, I don't know why you're putting these rules in. Yeah, they they make up this this way. I don't know why it's such a big thing. It's like you that's not how you're fighting the boogeyman. Like that as well. That that doesn't go on. There's not this like massive influx of trans athletes competing in these sports because uh, you know, there there's all these other reasons then that they might not make it to the Olympic the Olympic level, which is incredibly fucking hard to get to. And if you are, you know, uh going from male to female, then you have got your body gets fucking ravaged by all of the hormones that you're now taking, especially doing it later in life. Very true. You will lose a gigantic portion of your muscle mass. Your body changes entirely. Like, it is really hard to do anything from what I have read on what whilst you are transitioning, let alone compete at Olympic level where people are still able to train. And there will be people, and I think it's a very valid argument, that have got genetic predispositions towards certain sports, which then makes them the best. Examples, including Michael Phelps, who, whatever his thing, I can't remember his thing, where it's like he has got a huge wingspan, big fucking spade hands, and he's got like the lungs of a horse. Like he's a freak, he's he's a human freak. He's built to swim. He is a human submarine, and he is so good, but you wouldn't then say, you're a bit too good at this. No, I agree with that. I can't really do this anymore.

SPEAKER_00 56:59

I guess the question so that there's two things as well. One, any transathlete, any any female trans athlete cannot win. Because you enter the competition and you win, and you're like, oh my god, I've done it because you've trained just aside as everyone else. Yeah, but you're a man, so you you lose. You lost that, yeah. You finish bottom, people go, ha ha ha ha ha, you're pathetic. Why did you enter that channel? Couldn't even be women. You finish third, people go, like, you know, that should be that should be someone else who was born female on the podium there. So you it's like it's a horrible, horrible position to be in if you simultaneously see yourself as a great triple jumper and want to be the best triple jumper in the world, but also consider yourself a woman and feel a woman and are a woman, whatever the term is, right? That's a horrible position to be in. I guess to me it's like because I do agree with you that every athlete we've ever heard of is a freak in some way. They're obsessing with gods every football all the way down to non-league, they're freaks. That all they care about is football, football. Like they're born with something a bit off, and that's where they've become male and female, that's where they've become what they have. I guess the question is, we're everything balanced out. So you say that if you're sort of you're sort of taking hormones, stuff like that, it's ravaging your body, it's it's changing your body. Does that level of freakiness then balance out with the naturally female-born level of freakiness? So it sort of works out like we discussed with um Paralympians last week. Yes. Where one's got two arms, one's got two legs, but according to this scale, they meet in the Do you know what I mean? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 58:22

I know I mean, and that's why I say case by case basis on the two trans athletes that come up a year that might go to the Olympics.

SPEAKER_00 58:29

The swimmer and someone else.

SPEAKER_01 58:32

There were well, there was there was there was then also all of the fucking stupidity around um Is it like Iman Khalif, the boxer, um who ended up being intersex, but was then uh assigned female at birth, and so was then raised female and is a woman.

SPEAKER_00 58:47

I don't even know what intersex is, really. What's intersex?

SPEAKER_01 58:49

Where you got like I think it's essentially, maybe in sensitive term, a bit of both.

SPEAKER_00 58:53

It seems to be the sensitive term, as far as I get I gave it a Google and it seems to be the term.

SPEAKER_01 58:59

Is it I mean Khalif? Oh my god, I spelled her name fucking perfectly first time.

SPEAKER_00 59:05

That's right, that is that is all the way to the screen.

SPEAKER_01 59:06

That is quite worked in scale. Uh but yeah, like there's just there's a sentence, like a whole um uh like discussion of what was going on like with all of this. Yeah. With her being disqualified um from the women's world boxing championships after allegedly failing sex verification tests, blah blah blah. And it just ends with Khalif was born female and has competed exclusively in women's events, including those overseen by the IOC. She is not transgender.

SPEAKER_00 59:33

Well, there you go, she's the old one.

SPEAKER_01 59:35

Alright, you're fucking locked in then. That's fine. But like JK Rowling and stuff, just fucking locked onto it.

SPEAKER_00 59:40

Oh, really? Even her? Fuck's sake. What's she meant to do? I see it, I see even her the boxer, not even her J.K.

SPEAKER_01 59:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, even no. No, what's she done? I've only just finished half blood print. Um, okay, uh, number seven. There's ten questions here. Oh, yeah, okay. Four more. Do you acknowledge cross-dressers by their chosen identity? Yes. Respect their identity choice. It depends on legal recognition. Respecting everyone for who they are is essential. And uh. I'm still trying to understand it. I'd like to say on the second point of it, it depends on legal recognition. It is fucked. How hard it is to change your uh your uh your marker on your documents to change it from male to female or female to male. You have to essentially, it's a humiliating process in front of a panel that judge if you're trans enough. And it's so and it takes years. You have to like live as a as your chosen chosen, you have to live as your uh the gender that you are transitioning to for it's like four years or something, and you have to be out for that. You can't just live privately as that. You have to then like show proof of you like out and about as trans. So like you uh you know dressed uh as female presenting at a gig and stuff, you have to then present. But to show your holiday snaps, genuinely, yeah. That's it. You have to like present stuff to a panel, and then they then might say, nah. Just to change a letter on a passport or your um driver's license.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:12

Which doesn't change anything else, alright? It doesn't like affect anything else.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:15

Your doctor still knows that you were born as your as the sex that you were born, because that's the important thing. So long as that locks in, because it's the the male and female bodies at birth and pre-uh drugs to help transition are different and people's bodies respond differently in different ways. If you can get the baseline, along with a load of other things of you know, uh of your sex, of you know, where you were raised, because that'll be a big part of it, like, oh, you were raised in an area actually where there was a lot of pollution that could lead to these adverse health effects, they'll gather 50 bits of information as their baseline to then right now. How do we diagnose you with this criteria involved? So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:56

If that's so if that's the case, why do these people care so much whether the passport says MRF? Because we've just described it as like it's only a letter. Is there no argument that if someone isn't like that, it's still only a letter?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:08

I think I think there definitely could be, but I think that if the argument is it's only a letter, then why can't you just change that letter? I think that also goes both ways. It's like you want everything in your life to affirm the gender that you are living as. It'll be fucking horrible looking at your um, you know, say you were like raised for 18 years as male, and you then uh are trans, you then transition, you get the age 30, you've now transitioned, and every time you then look at your driver's licence or your passport, it says male. You'd be like, I'm fucking not. Well I'd say then that it's not fueled.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:42

I'd say then that's an argument that it's not only a letter, then. That's fair. To play devil's advocate. Like you can't have it, oh, it's only letter one way, but it's only a letter the other way. It's like clearly that letter does hold something, yeah. Some impactful societal, you know, choice. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:58

Oh, no, I get you're it's a fair point to bring up. I guess uh fluffifying it as it's only a letter may also be unhelpful. On the other side. Yeah, fair enough. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:08

Um, just fucking do what you want, really, in that one. So I think number one was my.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:14

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:14

If if you come up to me and you said I'm Janine now, I'm not gonna keep calling you well, I'll probably call you Stumpy, but I'm not gonna keep calling you Alex.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:22

I'd be like, fine. Honestly, for the sake of it, if I went trans, I'd stick with Alex.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:26

Oh, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:28

Not gender neutral, just lock it in. I I could be Ellie. I've spelled the same way, EMILE. That's true, that'd be nice. I'll pop a little accent over the ear. Um who would you like to attend your event? What? I don't know this question's. My theoretical sports match or something. It just says event. Uh everyone. Inclusive inclusivity matters.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:49

My community members have priority. All interested people should have a chance.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

The fuck are they on?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:55

And then deciding based on the type of event. What does this mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:00

Sorry, are we thick? Are people in the audience right now in the chat going, obviously this means XYZ? Because to me, they've just asked absolutely nothing. If you don't have a theoretical thing, what theoretical people would you theoretically want there? Uh who wants to come to the code.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:15

If I hosted an esports tournament, I probably wouldn't invite my nam.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:21

I would invite my grandma actually came to one and she loved it for the record. Oh, I see. I would. I'd watch your dead nan compete at an esports event.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:30

God, there's an urn with a controller taped to it. Um everyone, inclusive matters. Earn it. That could be the tagline. Nice, that's good. My community members have priority, all interested people should have a chance.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:41

So is it saying basement So is it saying, do you want only white people to come? Or do you want anyone who wants to come to come? Because I I'm very much on team three. If if we when we host OU Live, yeah, if one person's from Azerbaijan who comes to the audience, one person's trans, one person has a conjoined fetus on their head, one person's white. We got four people coming along to OU Live. Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:04

Yes! Mate, five with the fetus.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:07

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:08

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:09

That's two tickets. According to taxing uh, you know, what we'll put on the tax man, that is five. That's two tickets. So that one, go with that one. Whoever the fuck wants to come can come.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:18

That's why everyone's inclusivity matters because I just don't care. Yeah, basically. Yeah. So you're happy with everyone inclusivity matters. I think so, of those, yeah. Okay, alright. Number nine. How do you feel about accessibility issues in public spaces? This is where I'd actually say America is fucking amazing. Oh yeah? The um the ADA, the American Disability Act, is phenomenal. It's so much better than the UK.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:44

Oh, fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:45

Every single building, I believe, in the US, uh, that's not like a house or something, um, has to be uh either built with the intention of or retrofitted to be fully like wheelchair accessible. So that's Why ramps are everywhere. That is why there are much like flatter car parks and stuff. Like the way that they are that the so people, apart from their fucking healthcare, but like the way they're treated for accessibility to buildings and public transport and to this and to that and whatever else and sporting events is so fucking good. Okay. ADA is remarkable. And we do not do that very well.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:21

No, I mean if if you're born in a wheelchair, you should be able to go to any sporting event or officially unofficially live event that you wish. I I'm not gonna begrudge wheelchair Barry from watching his beloved Chicago Bulls play base egg.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:36

Uh so how do you feel about them? Everyone's needs must be accommodated. Focus on national priorities for citizens. So basically, fuck this question off. Let's just focus on something else. War. Not really. Accessibility is a right for all, which is the same as the first one. I'm still forming my stance. Well, so are disabled people.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:02

Okay, I wonder. Okay. There we go. Don't figure it out. Go three. I think go three, why not? It just is.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:08

I think accessibility is a right for all. Get them ramped.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:11

Get them ramped up to the gills, that's what I say.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:12

Okay, yeah, more ramped. More ramped. More ramp than my sign at any protest. More ramped. If your friend comes out as LGBTQ, how would you react? Fully supportive and accepting. My friendship views remain bound to societal norms. So hate. That's such a that's such a cop-owl thing of well, actually 30% of people don't agree with gays, so I can't accept this. Yeah. Have your own opinion, you fucking weirdo. Um our friendship should be based on mutual respect. So if they like me, I like them, but I don't think that they should be gay.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:48

Does does Alexia when you when you transition not like me anymore? It's like I'm not gonna force you to be my friend.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:53

Yeah. That's because that's weird in of itself. Yeah. Um, I need some time to understand this. I mean, it's just fully supportive and accepting. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:01

Sure. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:03

Yeah, alright. I might mess up every now and then, but cool, whatever. We'll kind of we move. All right. How woke is that all of them are we? It's time. Alright.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:12

What are you expecting then between us? What are you expecting us to be on the wokometer?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:16

I think we're pretty high up. I think we're like, I've no idea what scale this is. Also, if we click this and it says we have to pay, oh we will be so annoyed.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:24

We'll just make it up. We'll make it up.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:26

Okay, alright. Submit answers. Yeah, I think we'll be like an eight out of ten. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:30

Uh I I I think seven out of ten wokomata on this quiz. Because there's there's probably one that was actually the racist answer, and we gave it because it was just so unclear.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:38

Oh my god, I have to log in with Google. That's fine, you can do that. Careful. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Oh no. Whoa, I changed my password eight times.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:46

He's on the he's on the hook.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:49

On the fish.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:50

Fish boy, real big fish, reading it in for um uh any new watchers. Last week uh Stumpy got fish. You can check out last week's episode at the end of this one. I'll link it somewhere over like I might link it here. No, I can't do that. I've got to wait till the end, but it'll be linked here. We got fish. Very good episode. It hit like 400 viewers, so we're we're growing. Nice and officially that. Yeah, exactly. Growing like everybody's stomachs will be after eating the big old tuna that Stumpy Goblin is who's been reeled in. Have you found the answer yet to how woke we are? Because I'm running out of words to say I'm continuing to keep trying to talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:18

I'm trying to log in. Hit the button and I can hit login. Okay, I've I've logged in and that has made me a profile.

unknown 1:09:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:28

Can I not just see my answers? I really want to see the answer of how woke we are. I'm truly dead. I click C answers and it takes me to my profile. Can I just see what I've done? We're now in, I'm gonna cut. Why can't I see? We're now in I'm gonna cut this territory. Why can't I see what the fuck I did? Is it just shit? It's app.me.bot. I don't love that I've signed into that with Google.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:54

Right, shall we should we run away with our tails between our legs? I wanna see how woke I am. I wanna see how woke you are as well. I mean I can answer for you. I've said before that you'd be on the cover of woke weekly.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:06

Yeah, I've got uh every now and then I have I think in this I had many things that could be transcribed or syscribed um and put into woke weekly. Yeah, I can't find the answer. We're eight out of ten on the woke scale. Yay, we're probably eight out of ten on the wokescale. That's fine. That's fine for me. I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:25

Uh before we go, there's one more thing, back to the conversation at the start. Uh there's one more thing I forgot to say. If you click on that. So um our wonderful um what she does for programs. She does like art for the programmes, and she made this picture, which I'll put in, which is a picture of the women's team. So a woman who's drawn a picture of the women's team, she does them for the programme. Louise Cobold is her name. Shout out Big Lou. And then Reform quote retweeted it, and AI fied Nigel Farage holding the kit. So it's like, oh, it just made me feel physically sick when I saw it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:56

In her watercolour style, yes, with her face still in it, posing with it on the Reform Party underscore UK account, having just stolen the whole thing, then AIing. That is horrific.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:12

That's so low. So the post that shared that said that um It's which child and ITFC women should publicly condemn this. Ask me if they did. Go on, did they? No.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:22

That's so cowardly. Didn't say a word. That's really bad. Like, even just like we respect um uh this artist, she has done this, is this, is this. Uh any political party, even if you make it like an anybody doing it.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:37

Anyone shouldn't agreed.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:38

Any political party, uh uh quote parodying or whatever, um, stealing her likeness to then make AI quote art is completely wrong. That's such an easy win. And yeah. There you go. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:56

So that's a fun little end to it. Um I hope everyone has enjoyed this slightly more focused episode of Officially Unofficially. We're gonna be having this every now and then. Um obviously, normally we're gonna be back to the sort of talking about whatever the hell comes into our minds, but I don't know, this just sort of seemed like a good time to chat about things that are on our minds with with the amount of education we have about all of them. We're not coming to you guys as experts, we're coming to you guys as blokes who think things.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:17

Yes, exactly. And I think things more strongly, and maybe I'm wrong about stuff. Never. Lock me up for having an opinion, Kir. Lock me up. Thanks everybody for watching. Uh this episode officially. Unofficially. This podcast on the internet. Um, what number was it? Twenty-four. Twenty-four. Yeah. So we've done this now every week for twenty-four weeks. We missed about three because of Christmas. Oh, yeah, because we were in uh different country. Um three to two different countries. I was in three. Crazy. Um uh yeah, thanks everyone. Hanging out. Um were we two woke? Let us know in the comments. That's the question. And where do you think you would end up on the wokeometer? 'Cause I think we've probably got quite a woke audience. I don't think there is a reform, Reginald, in the comments.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:02

Let's know if you are that person. Otherwise, bye.