It’s All Connected: What Your Face Muscles Say About Your Health

In this episode, I’m joined by my own myofunctional therapist, Kelley, to talk about the wild things no one ever told us about how we breathe, how we feed our babies, and what tongue ties can really cause — for our kids and ourselves.

From pacifier use and mouth breathing to sleep issues, picky eating, speech delays, and even adult jaw pain and TMJ — we break it all down. If you’re a mom, this conversation is going to blow your mind (in the best way).

We also chat about what myofunctional therapy is, how it works, and how to know if it’s something your child — or you — should look into.

LINKS:
Kelley’s Practice → https://mymyomyhealth.com/

Follow MyMyoMyHealth on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/mymyomyhealth/?r=nametag

Nasal Spray Referenced during today's episode

Other Products Referenced: MyoMunchees (for children and adults)

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You're listening to Real and Natural-ish, the podcast where we evolve and own the glow up in real time. I'm your host, Natasha Pearson. Welcome to Real and Natural-Ich, the first time you have actually been inside the closet with me. I did the last episode in my office, and I felt like the sound was not that great. It was because I was interviewing my nurse practitioner, and I'm like, you know what? I'm just gonna go back into the closet. You can have this as the background, but the sound in here is just so much better. And I have to say, I feel like I was jinxed because when I was in Prague a couple of weeks ago, one of my friends, Filippo, said to me that he was listening to my podcast and the sound was just so good. And he's like, the sound was so good. And then I feel like the next couple episodes after that, my sound quality started to go down. So we're working with what we have. We are back in the closet for hopefully the better sound. So today I have a treat for you. I am bringing on the owner and director of MyMio, My Health, which is where I went to go for myofunctional therapy. And I have to share this story with you because my journey for this started over a decade ago when I had my first daughter and she was struggling to breastfeed, and I learned that it might be a tongue tie. And so I started learning about what tongue ties were. My daughter, Gretchen, ended up having her tongue tie released. And then my next baby, Ralph, he also had one, then Claire had one. All of my children, Alan as well, all had tongue ties that were released when they were babies. And through this process, I had learned that number one, this can be hereditary. But number two, I finally realized that why my tongue could not touch my back molars was because I had a tongue tie. And so I started doing more research about it, thinking about oh, can I get my tongue tie released as an adult? Would that even do anything? And for several years, I was researching this and I didn't even know where to start. Like, do I find someone that will release it? I had joined this Facebook group called Tongue Tied Adults. So if you think you might have one, that is an excellent resource. Um, through that, I learned that I should go to myofunctional therapy first. I found a myofunctional therapist, which was really hard. I didn't even really know what that was. So myofunctional therapy, myomeaning muscle, strengthening the muscles in your face. Um, so this was a couple of years ago. I started going to therapy and I thought, yeah, I'll just go get seen, they'll evaluate me, I'll get my tongue tie released, and I'll be off on my way. Well, that is not how the process worked. I actually did therapy, I want to say, for six to nine months before I even had my tongue tie released. And Kelly, when I bring her on today, she will explain all of the things of why I had to do that. But through therapy, I strengthened my tongue muscles. I also got some great exercises to tighten up underneath your chin. Um, also, if you have like jowls on your face, I have exercises for that because I learned so much through this process. I am not kidding you. Every single therapy appointment I went to, I had the same thought of why doesn't everyone know this information? Why don't parents get this information when they have babies? Why am I just learning about this now in my 30s? That something I have been, you know, all of these symptoms I had been having my entire life was actually caused by the fascia underneath my tongue because it is connected to your whole entire body. My mind was blown every single therapy session, and I was just like, when I started this podcast, I knew immediately I needed to bring on my therapist to share this information with the world. So after months of therapy, I had my tongue tie released, and it was the most wild experience of my life. And no, it did not hurt. The whole procedure took less than 15 minutes. Um, they numbed my mouth and they used a laser to release my tongue. So the skin underneath my tongue was laser. When they were releasing it, I kid you not, as they were like lasering more and more skin simultaneously, I felt the tension release out of my shoulders. And it was crazy. It was a super wild experience. After that, I got up out of the chair and I stood up, and I was like, oh my gosh, my vision has changed. Not like my actual eyesight, but my peripheral vision was different because with a tongue tie, if you're watching on video, you can see my neck was chronically pulled forward. And as soon as I got it released, I stood up straighter, my neck was farther back, and I felt like my peripheral vision had changed because I was no longer forward like a turtle, I was standing up straight. I started squatting differently, my body alignment was different, and it was all because this little tiny piece of skin under my tongue. While I was doing research in this tongue-tied adults Facebook group, I learned that tongue ties are linked with sleep apnea, TMJ, so many things. And I am excited to bring this information to you today. It is going to probably be very life-changing for you, whether for yourself or for one of your kids. This is the information that I wish everyone had. Please, if you listen and you learn something, share this episode with a friend because everyone needs to have this information. It needs to spread around because it is, it has been that life-changing for me. All right, let's get into it. I'm so excited to introduce you to Kelly. Let's go ahead and get started. I'm so excited to welcome to the podcast today the founder and director of MyMio, Kelly, which MyMio is actually where I have been going to myofunctional therapy. I've taken two of my kids there. So we've been going there for well over a year. And I remember the first time I went, just the things that I learned, honestly, every time I went were so mind-blowing. I asked myself every day after leaving, why do they not teach this to people? Especially new mothers. But I mean, I was going for myself because I had a tongue tie, which was released almost a year ago, actually, which has been life-changing for me. I'm just like, everyone needs to know this. So I'm so excited to have you on the podcast today, Kelly. Welcome.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Yeah, so I guess we'll get started. You know, it's funny because I before we started recording, I asked Kelly, how would you like me to address you? And she's like, well, I think most people know myofunctional therapist. And I'm like, no, they don't. Because when I learned about myofunctional therapy, I'm like, wait, does that have to do with your heart? Like, what is that? You know, I had to join Facebook groups. Yeah. I had to search and seek out this information. So I would love for you to just start off by sharing what even is myofunctional therapy? What do people use it for? What does it help with? Is it for everyone? Certain age groups? Just give us a general overview.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Absolutely. So my background is in pediatric dentistry. I'm a licensed dental hygienist that specialized in pediatrics for about 30 years. And so, really, you have to have a licensure to be able to take this specialty training. It's very niche and it involves airway and the oral facial muscles. So the muscles of the face, the mouth, the tongue, the throat. So we have occupational therapists in our practice that go through more specialized training past their postgraduate education. And then we have speech pathologists, we have lactation. And so really it is a person that you're seeing to help you with what those muscles do in regards to help you live your life. So if you think about your facial muscles and express your feelings, they help you communicate. Your lips seal to swallow food for you. They also help you communicate with sounds. Your tongue and your intraoral muscles help you breathe, help you sleep, help you eat, and help you communicate. So everything that goes along with that, we specialize in the therapy to rehabilitate those muscles to help you where your deficits are. So if you had a tongue, Titasha, you know, that may have impacted your jaw pain, your neck tension, your shoulder tension, and by and so on. And I myself was somebody that was impacted that in our respective licensure programs, we don't learn this. So, you know, my daughter's almost done with her grad school program in speech pathology. Nothing about the function of these muscles. It's insane. It's insane. So yes, I should have known better to say, oh my, but but I have to say, I've done this for nine years, and when I first started, it was a very lonely world, and there was only me out here in Phoenix doing this. And so it's it's grown a lot with awareness.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Yeah, I will say I have I had no idea all of the things that were impacted by your facial muscles and especially your tongue. And as I started learning, I mean, I how I found you is I actually joined a Facebook group called Tongue Tied Adults. And because I knew I had a tongue tie after having four kids that had them, I'm like, oh wait, maybe that's what I have. Maybe that's why my tongue can't reach the back of my molars. And I was reading through this page of people who are like, you know, I struggled with TMJ for 10 years. Finally, after getting my tongue tie released, I don't have it anymore. Or sleep apnea, like so many mind-blowing things. I mean, even when I had my tongue released, like you said, the tension in your neck, it was the most wild experience. I mean, it didn't hurt because they numbed it, but as they were releasing that fascia underneath my tongue, I felt the tension release in my shoulders. It was mind-blowing. So we'll get into adults in a little bit. I figured a great place to actually start for this podcast is talking more about children specifically. I mean, just the things that I've learned about pacifiers. I'm like, I wish I would have learned this a decade ago. Um, but first, I would love to hear what are some things that parents often miss in those early years that could actually be a sign of issues with the mouth or the tongue or the lips.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Love this question. So yeah, my my story is similar in regards to my kids are in their mid-20s, and a lot of this, as I learned, I'm like, that's why I couldn't breastfeed my kids. That's why my daughter had colic. That's why my kids loved their pacifier until they were like five and six. So no judgment over here, okay. But what I wish I would have learned as a new mom, I know now as a mom to I'm an elder mom, if you will. So when your babies come out, their only purpose in life is to eat, to breathe, to sleep, and to eliminate what they eat and communicate through vocal vocalization and crying. So that has to do with everything these facial muscles do for us and inside the mouth. So if there's something wrong in one of those areas, so if you know that your baby, like I always trust a mom's intuition, and you're like, something's not right. My baby's crying all the time, and a lot of times it gets dismissed as colic, and I'm using air quotes here. Colic isn't a diagnosis, colic is something is going on with the infant that really only has a few jobs, that area, there's something that's disturbing the body enough to make them communicate, hey, something's wrong. So anything that feels un unnatural, excuse me, if you will, if you can't latch well, if your baby's not latching well, if there's milk dribbling out of the mouth, if their lips have blisters on them, if their if their physical appearance looks asymmetrical or they have a lot of tension.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Wait, milk dribbling out of the mouth? Yeah, I thought that was just like, oh, my supply is too much. That should not happen ever.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Correct, correct, correct. And yes, there are variations in lactation considerations, but a lot of times, and this is where my advocacy comes in for women and women's health, they blame it on us a lot as moms. It's your fault, you know, you have too much milk, your nipples are too small, etc. etc. But what did they do back in the day? They had to nurse, they had to feed. So when you see milk dribbling or there's a ton of spit up, something is going on with the harmony of those muscles. Something is not there to support the feeds. So investigate, ask questions. And you know what's unfortunate is a lot of these pediatricians don't know enough because they have to know so much, it's very general.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

But if you get dismissed, that's that's not end all be all because they don't know enough in our specialty to say go ahead and move forward, or to say nay, like it's not a good idea to see a myofunctional therapist. So trust your gut and look for somebody that's trained in pediatric feeding therapy, airway, and tongue ties. Other symptoms can include having digestive symptoms to where they're constipated. That's not normal. They should be pooping a couple times a day, at least. At least, and not a lot of us know that they think constipation is normal. I fed my mom told me to put carous syrup in my baby's bottles. Like, okay. Um but but if I look back on it, he was tongue tied and nobody told me, you know. So nobody nobody knew enough to say, hey, let's go down this road together and support you and give you options and work with a specialist that knows how these things should function. No, there's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Okay, I do have a question uh specifically about babies because my first daughter, who's now 11, we actually did get her tongue tie released, but she still had issues after that. She still wasn't able to breastfeed, she still was spitting up a ton, she still was super colicky. Um, and I would always check her tongue to like it's not reattached. So, what could have been happening?

SPEAKER_01 13:22

So that thank you for bringing this up. So, when I started in this field, you know, nine years ago, it was very common to see a tongue that has tethering underneath it. And let me just clarify, we all have frenular tissue. So the string that you see underneath your tongue, we all have that. What we have to consider is how tightly is that string attached and how does it affect the muscles function it's attached to is a very important thing that the clinician needs to know about before they tell you to go and do this procedure. The other part of that is back when your daughter's 11, back then it was I see a tongue tie, I see a tongue tie, it's tight, go do it, just clip it. Well, that doesn't address the compensations your daughter had to have because of that restrictive range of motion. So in utero, sucking starts to begin and they start practicing sucking and swallowing at 28 weeks gestation.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

So that makes more sense now. Yes, if they have to compensate, therapy must happen with a tongue tie release. You have to work with a therapist to rehabilitate the muscles because sometimes it's just tight fascia, sometimes it's just positioning. And I think there's a lot of let's just make this the magic bullet and the cure for all. So you have to be also aware that tongue tie isn't the first and final answer.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

You know, that's really funny that you say that because I remember when I got my mine released and I went in for the first time, and they said, You're gonna have to do therapy, you know, for six to ten months before we will release your tongue. And I'm like, why? Like my babies just got them released when they were uh an infant, and then it was that it was just that. And so now that makes so much sense. Now, moving on to toddlerhood and young kids, this was actually something that I recently got answers to. And I would love for you to speak more on this. Um, but my son, he was waking up every single day with these dark circles under his eyes. And I'm like, he's sleeping so well, he's getting nine to ten hours a night. And when I took him to the orthodontist, they actually did an airway evaluation and they were the ones that recommended us to go see you and have him be seen. I'm like, he already had his tongue tie released. How is this still happening? So I would love for you to speak why do the dark circles happen? What are other signs in kids that maybe myofunctional therapy would benefit them? And what was happening? I mean, I know what was happening to Ralph, but I would love to hear from you what was happening to him.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Yeah, so you know, to the point that most of our kids that are like Ralph's age or in that general age range, they have had their tongue ties released and they're still coming in with dysfunction. Why? Because the compensations weren't addressed in therapy, it was just a quick fix. Here you go, here's a sheet of stretches and exercises. So the compensation wasn't addressed to the individual component of what was going on with Ralph per se. Then what you're looking for in toddlers and kids, and you know, venous pulling is what we call the clinical term of dark circles underneath the eyes. What that tells us is that the tongue isn't resting against the palate to help with pressure and to help the fluid, the sinus fluid move around. So venous pulling or dark circles under the eyes says there's some stagnation in how fluid is moving through this child's face, most likely due to the improper position of the tongue and breathing dysfunction. So when you see a toddler or child, number one asleep. If they're waking up frequently throughout the night, if they wake up and come into your bed, you know, at odd hours, if they fight bedtime, if they're waking up before the sun rises, if they wake up and they have the messiest hair because they're moving around all night trying to get more air and oxygen into their body, if they're peeing the bed after their body potty training and and they're in pull-ups for a prolonged period of time, that's their body saying, I have airway distress. If their mouths open up a little bit while they sleep, if they're snoring, these are all red flags that those muscles that I spoke of earlier are not doing the the job functionally, and you see it present itself on these sleep issues, and they're very common, but it's not normal. Common is not normal.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

I love that you said common is not normal because I feel like a lot of times what happens, you know, I have even brought some of these issues up to other doctors, and I've just been told, you know, this is pretty common. It's like I'm not willing to accept that. I, you know, I don't think this is common. My other daughter, who is also going to mile right now, grinds her teeth at night. Um, so I just want to reiterate a couple of things that you've said. Um, number one, because I don't think a lot of people know this, your tongue's natural resting position is on the roof of your mouth, correct? Yes. So you want it, do you want it to be, and for those listening, could you describe how should your tongue be while you're just resting? And how should your lips be when you are just resting and not talking? And should you ever breathe through your mouth?

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Okay, love you speaking, my love language girl. So when you have a baby, I'm gonna go back to the babies real quick. Look and open their mouth just slightly when they're sleeping, and look for that tongue to be suctioned against the palate. So, yes, you're the front of your tongue all the way to the back of your tongue where you can feel, you can actually feel that inside your mouth, that should be lightly suctioned against the roof of your mouth. And it's an insane concept for those of us who that doesn't happen to, which is including myself. I had to do all this on myself too. And so you should have light suction. The other important part of this is teeth. When we get older as women, we start to have jaw issues from oral facial dysfunction. One because of our hormones, and that's a whole other segment, but your teeth should be slightly apart to where you could pass a little piece of paper through. Your lips should be together, and your lips should be together at rest gently, and you should always, always, always breathe through your nose. There's never a time that you should breathe through your mouth. We are humans, our obligate nasal breathers, and our structure and our anatomy and pathology is designed for filtration of air through our nose.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Wait, so what do you mean you should never breathe through your mouth? Even like heavy exercising, still breathe through your nose?

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Yes, so that's something I had to learn too. I was in the army and you know, we were doing heavy PT and running, and I was younger, and I hated it. You know why? Because I was a mouth breather and I was so sensitive to carbon dioxide, which is the driving force of getting your next breath. Every time I felt air hungry, which is a term a lot of people can identify with, you're just offloading CO2, CO2, you're not getting great oxygenation. So if you close your mouth, you slow down your breathing, you breathe through your nose, you're getting more oxygen perfusion throughout your body to the muscle tissue, and your endurance is going to be longer. You're going to be able to work out better. So, yes, you should never breathe through your mouth, especially if you're in a part of your life where you're trying to train more, build muscle, etc.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Yes. Nose, nose, nose. And I know you said you need to gently close your lips together when you sleep. This is actually one thing I didn't realize. I had my tongue tie released, and I went back a second time about a month later to get my lip tie released, which is the skin like right above your teeth. And I didn't think that that was an issue, but oh my goodness, I had the best night of sleep after I got that released because I could close, like I could close my mouth before, I could put my lips together, but it was like I had so much more slack in my face, and it was so much easier. It was that's why all this stuff is so fascinating to me. I have seen firsthand how it changes everything. I mean, even after getting my tongue tie released, my posture changed. Um, so what are I want to go back actually to mouth breathing with kids. And I would love for you, this was like the most mind-blowing thing that I learned through myofunctional therapy was when it comes to pacifiers. And again, I mean, I used pacifiers with my kids. I wish I would have known this back in the day. I thought that pacifiers only affected their teeth, but I actually learned so much more. So I would love for you to talk a little bit about traditional pacifiers. Are there any alternatives? What does that actually do to a baby that is using a pacifier all the time?

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Yeah, so great, great point. And I also identify with being a parent who had prolonged pacifier use of my own children. So I get it. And there's just our practice, there's no shame, there's no hate. Like we want to support you. So going back to the concept at hand is when infants are young, you know, under 12 months, it can serve a purpose. Um, this is also personal. My brother passed away from SIDS, and the pacifier use under age 12 months does help neurologically because it helps with stimulating the brain. So there is evidence to Support under 12 months, it's a good thing to use to help lower the risk of cits, right? So, but beyond that, it's not nutritive, it's not developmental. The reason being is when you put a nipple against the palate and that palate has the nipple in it instead of the tongue, where does the tongue go? The tongue goes down, the jaw goes down, it wraps around the nipple, right? Yes, yes. And so if we go back to the concept of your tongue should be against the palate and suction there, because that's what creates that pressure and that mechanism of facial growth. So our facial bones are very malleable when we're younger. And so the muscles and the tongue and the lips and our nasal breathing is what drives our faces to grow out and down and help us have enough room to breathe from our nose and have enough room for all of our teeth and our oral cavity. So putting a pacifier there, prolonged pacifier use beyond age one, changes the cranial facial formation and it starts to form around the nipple, not the tongue.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

And so in the palate. You're saying that they would have a more narrow face and a high palate. Like me. I have a very narrow face and a high palate.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Yes, but but you know what? We we can get around that if we address it when they're young, and we can take it away. And you could see it's crazy how close, or I'm sorry, it's crazy how like when you take the pacifire out and how things change so drastically and quickly in these kids because their bones are like play-doh, and then it and then it disrupts their feeding because they have to start lifting the back of their tongue up to do solids, which happens around four to six months. So solids is gonna be harder, they're gonna have more of a gag reflex, they're gonna have more communication issues because the tongue muscle isn't doing what it should to move and get strength and coordination to move for speech and communication.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Wow. So I remember, yeah, when I was doing therapy, strengthening the back muscles in my tongue was the hardest for me. I mean, now I'm a pro because I've been doing it for so long. But is that something that if kids aren't using pacifiers, do they naturally strengthen those muscles?

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Absolutely. So if you have optimal oral resting posture from the from day one, the tongue sealed in the palate, the lips are closed, yes, the the muscles are doing that because it keeps the muscles strong and creates the endurance to do everything the muscle groups are supposed to do. So growing our faces, resting in the correct place, communicating, swallowing, chewing, feeding. Now, going back to the second part of that question, what pacifiers are good? We like when they're you know under six months, the ninny N-I-N-N-I, or an advent soothy, the long ones that are green, because that helps promote tongue cupping and then what those muscles need to do to nurse and feed. So beyond age one, then you start to wean them off.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

Is there anything else that you can use after the age of one that you would recommend?

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Yes, so to help support oral facial function and development, we also love a Mayo Munchie and Maya muscle. Yes, we love our munchies, and it's a super affordable tool that in certain age groups it's sized for their the size of their mouth, and chewing, not a lot of people know this either. Chewing drives our the growth and development of our faces. So when we go back to say, okay, why is the tongue down? Why is so the the change in our diets evolutionary is we're eating more soft and processed foods. We're offering our kids food pouches. I didn't have my kids are mid-20s, that wasn't an option, so but I get how convenient it is. I see that. But think about chewing. Are we chewing soft food? Are we chewing the beige processed foods? No, we're like gumming it. You don't have to really use your jaw muscles. So the Mayo Munchie helps support the chewing that is needed to help load the bones to have them grow optimally along with the tongue position. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

And then for those listening, the munchie is I'll and I'll share a picture on my stories later, but it's almost like a mouth guard, but it has these little rubbery things. I don't know, it's kind of fun, it's almost like a fidget toy for your mouth. I think that's how I would describe it. I have one, um, Ralph has one, my daughter Claire has one, and they will just like while they're coloring, they'll have their munchie in their mouth and they're just kind of chewing on it, and it is like that fidget toy. They actually really love it. Um so when it comes to pacifier use, and you you do recommend taking the pacifier away at one, is that correct? Yes, yes. So, how does that affect their breathing if they're used to having their tongue wrapped around the nipple of the pacifier?

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Yeah, great question. So if they're if they're compensating, you'll hear me use that word a lot, because the other part is if everything that we do with these muscles is vital to our health and and just our our need to live, we'll figure it out. So that's why there's so much compensation around it. Now, if you take the pacifier away, they have to relearn how to use their nose, how to use their tongue, and then they're try they're trying to figure it out. The other thing is the feedback that you get neurologically with the nipple against the palate, that's soothing. There's a bunch of nerves in the palate, too, that went that's why they want the pacifier more or their thumb more or their fingers, because they're actually engaging that neurological component of the brain saying, You're safe, you're calm, you're safe, you're calm. So taking it away can kind of stir up some feelings, and you'll notice some behavioral changes. You'll notice it's it's I hate to say it was like an addict because it also releases endorphins the longer they go. So soothe and remove is a great way for your audience to remember that is after one, have them use it, and you're you're gonna feel a little sad about it because it's your baby, and you want them to be comfortable and you see that they want it so badly, but stay strong because down the road it's really gonna not allow them to do what they need to do to be the healthiest them. And so soothe it, put it in there, they fall asleep, take it out, and then move their tongue up with your finger. Just go, if you're watching this, you just go behind your chin a little bit, use your thumb, kind of push up. You could feel it if you're listening to push up on that soft spot and then push into your tongue a little bit, and you'll feel like push your tongue up, and that's a perfect thing to do after you take the passy because then they're using their tongue to give them that neurological feedback for complications.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Okay, yeah, it's almost like pretty far back is where you want to push up. You know, I mentioned when I was seeing Becky, Becky is who I went to for myofunctional therapy. One of my last sessions, I was like, what are some exercises to work on like tightening up under my chin? And she's like, That's the back muscles of your tongue. So if you want to tighten up and have a more snatched jawline, like that's what you want to be doing is suctioning your tongue to the roof of your mouth. I think the kids nowadays call it mewing. Um, but I'm like, oh, I learned about that in therapy to strengthen my tongue.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

Yeah, it's it's crazy when you the other thing for us women, you know, I'm 46, and of course we are going to be a little vain, right? Like we don't we want to age gracefully and beautifully as well. But the muscles have a lot to do with that. So if your tongue's down, girl, your face is gonna sag and the neck is gonna, you know, like all of that has to go with it. So, you know, I I I love you know the cosmetic things I can do to my face, but I also know that I'm gonna use my muscles to help support that to really help me age naturally and gracefully.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

Yeah, and I even like the jowls too. I was like, I got I have exercises for that as well. Which that one is yeah, and then also the finger in your mouth, and then while you're pushing out, suction, yeah, suction in. So if you're watching this, that will help with your face right here. I I mean I feel like my face has changed since doing myofunctional therapy.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

For sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Um, and even my son, like I noticed doing all those tongue exercises, also, he did go through expansion recently, um, but his face is more broad, which uh another question about expansion. Would we have to be doing that today had we addressed all of these issues when he was an infant?

SPEAKER_01 30:01

Not necessarily. That's why we like to get him young. That's why I like we get in the the common term we use in this industry and in our industry is fixed before six. So if you can get in there and work on the muscles, the muscles and the behavior and the environment is what really tells the face how to grow. So it's not grandpa's genes, it's not grandpa's sleep apnea or dad's sleep apnea. No, it's how you express those genes.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Wow, yeah, and then even with a pacifier use that prolonged use you said makes your face more narrow, makes your palate higher. Does that affect your airways if you have a high palate?

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Yes, because not everybody knows this, and you share a wall. Your nose, the base of your nose shares a wall with the roof of your mouth. So those two things are have a big relationship. So if your palate narrows and it starts to encroach into the nasal space, you're absolutely going to decrease the volume of in which you breathe. And that decrease in volume makes you breathe harder and with more effort, and then there's more resistance, and then you become more stuffy and more congested, and then your tongue starts to drop and your face starts to elongate. I mean, it's a snowball.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

That is wild. Okay, so I think that this is the best question to transition into adults because I was an adult that you know had my tongue tie released. If let's say that all of these things that we're talking about doing for children, if they do not get addressed as a child, what type of issues would that turn into as teenagers and adults?

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Yeah, great question. So, yeah, this is and you could probably relate. So I had all of these issues growing up, and this is why this is my passion. I I love educating and treating clients because I felt so horrible. I this stuff wasn't addressed in me. I had my tonsils and adenoids out, still didn't help, right? You think that's the first line that you do. My son's mouth reading, my daughter's mouth reading, let's get tonsils and adenoids done. Doesn't change a thing because you don't learn how to breathe again and you don't learn where to put your tongue. So going on in the future, everyone needs myofunctional therapy. I know it's like it really is like a gym. Like, like who doesn't need to go to the gym, right? Yeah. So going forward in my life, what I experienced was severe depression because my sleep got worse and worse and worse. I had kids starting at 19, and so postpartum oppression was real for me because I was not sleeping well. I was not getting all the things I needed to repair my brain night after night. My tongue was down, so my jaw took a big load of the work because my back of my tongue wasn't doing the work. So the load on my jaw, the load on my shoulders, I started getting cracked teeth because I would clench and grind in my in my sleep, and then going on anxiety because my sleep wasn't great, and it's completely changed my life. Like it's I don't even know that person I used to be. So with women, it's very it can really exacerbate because of the fluidity of our hormones. So in different lifespans, looking back, that's when I was clenching more when I was having kids because I was having more progesterone peaking. Now that I'm 46, when I started to decline my estrogen and going through perimenopause, guess what? You can still have a little bit of flare in your jaw, and it's how you know how to modify that through what we do in therapies.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

You know, we just did a full episode on hormone health. So let this just be another sign. If you are a woman listening right now, go get your hormones checked. You need to get your hormones checked, it will change everything for you. Absolutely. Um, other things that I learned in my tongue-tied adult Facebook group was sleep apnea and TMJ. Why is that?

SPEAKER_01 33:38

So, with sleep apnea, really what you go back to is the foundation of your oral resting posture. Now, if your tongue's not sealed in your palate, you're not strengthening, think of your throat muscles. Those are the muscles when you yawn, you feel them. Go ahead and yawn. You could feel that throat lift. I know, like I'm gonna trigger everybody. I know. Beyonne, you feel that throat lift, that's your airway. Your uvula, your tongue, your throat muscles, those are all your airways. So if your tongue's down, your airway is collapsing. And when you go to lay back and down with gravity, everything's compressed, and so you have less space to move air through, and so you have more frequent arousals because your body says, Wake up, I'm not breathing, wake up, wake up. And you might not fully wake up, and women, because of our hormones, we have more arousals. Men will actually just stop breathing. So we'll just turn and toss and turn. And the thing is different for us is they'll have a sleep study done, they'll say, You don't have sleep apnea because yeah, we don't desaturate completely, but we have very many arousals. They don't look at that. So, just a quick side note. And the other thing with TMJ is if your tongue is down, you're using more of the front of your tongue and you're using more of your mandible pushing forward. That is going to compress your jaw disc back and push it into that area around the bone on the height of your mandible, and so that's going to happen all day, all the time, with every single movement you do. Is jaw clicking part of that too? Yes, that's the disc. Mm-hmm. And it shouldn't be sore, it shouldn't be tender. You could also have referred pain in through your temples, your shoulders, and get migraines often and have fullness in your ears or feel like your ears itch a lot and things like that. So that's all related to not having your tongue against the roof of your mouth.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

So it's not just tongue tie, it's tongue posture. So you could technically not have a tongue tie, but if you have bad tongue posture, yes, you could be experiencing all these issues. Exactly. Which is so crazy to think that it's like it could, and I'm not saying this is the 100% answer, but it could just be how your tongue is in your mouth all day that's causing so many issues.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

Yes, and if there's a tongue tie there, that's why you're compensating. And so you have to address the compensations. And a lot of us that have TMJD is you're overusing and underusing. And so you're just you just have tension all the time in those little muscles that open your mouth, and you're not really using the muscles that chew. And so it just radiates and it could be debilitating.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Wow. And I'm telling you, I mean, I have done a year of my uh over a year of myofunctional therapy. It's not hard, it is not like a gym workout. It's I suction my tongue to the roof of my mouth as I drive. Like that's that's when I do all of my exercises. Now, when it comes to tongue ties for adults, those of us who are 20, 30, 40, what are signs that someone might have a tongue tie? And is it ever too late to get your tongue released?

SPEAKER_01 36:33

No, great question. So when you when you have a tongue tie, what I see that's different in the in the patients we treat that are just more, you know, everybody's compensational, but you'll have more tension and pain through the shoulders, through the upper part of your neck. You'll feel when we so we'll we'll repattern the swallow too, because most of our patients they push their tongue forward to swallow instead of lift the tongue up. This is commonly known as a tongue thrust. So once you relearn how to do that and lift the back of your tongue up, if that feels difficult and hard and you have acid reflux, you feel like your food kind of gets stuck in your throat, you feel like there's a lot of digestive issues, or you're bloated, or you don't poop every day. That can all be related to a tongue tie release. And I had I had mine then too, and Tasha, I felt the same thing. I cried when I had mine released because I didn't feel that free ever in my body.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

No, I was like, this is what it is like for my tongue to touch the roof of my mouth. My tongue had never done that before. Yeah, that is so and can you if you just lift up your tongue? For me, I knew because my tongue did not reach my molars and I could hardly stick out my significant, yes. It was no idea. And that's the thing is like, you know, I was still able to breastfeed as a baby, and I never had any issues. I mean, that I know of, but now I'm like looking back, I'm like, oh well, when I did get it released, um, he did tell me that had I had this done as a child, my face would be whiter now than I have more of a narrow face. That's so crazy. So even if you don't have a tongue tie though, you should still do myofunctional therapy, correct? If you I mean, I think everyone should do it.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

Well, if you have symptoms and it goes about to this, is everybody like this? No, not everybody's like this. But if you have symptoms that are making you modify your life, that's not good. That's not a good, that's not a great quality of life. And it goes back for me, it goes much more beyond the aesthetics and the pain because if you're not, I know you're not sleeping well, if you have all these issues, this is creating inflammation day by day, year by year. What's the root cause of all systemic disease? Inflammation. Where does it start?

SPEAKER_00 38:35

With sleep disorders, and mouth mouth breathing at night causes inflammation of the throat, correct?

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Yes, your oral biome completely shifts. So think of your oral mucosa is the same as your gut. What's going on in the mouth is also going on the gut. It's not separate. We don't, the body is a whole, and so that's also something we have to consider is whatever starts here is gonna affect you down the chain of your body.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

You know, it's really crazy. I and I haven't shared this publicly before, but a couple of years ago, I I had what I had realized was called geographic tongue. So I had like all these lines on my tongue that would just randomly show up. And I saw two different doctors about this, and they all said to me, like, oh, just it's normal. Some people have it. I'm like, this is not normal. And I didn't make this connection until literally right now, but I'm wondering if myofunctional, I have not had that since I have been going to myofunctional therapy, since I have been sleeping with my mouth closed at night.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

Yes, because your biome is much healthier. Your mouth is closed, you have enzymes in your saliva, you're able to keep that acidic level to a certain point. And geographic tongue is linked to a lot of gut issues, uh deficiencies, etc. So if you're mouth breathing, you're completely changing your biome. You're more acidic.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

That is so crazy. Now, I want to go back to eating because I don't think people know this. I know for myself, I did not know this until after I had my tongue released, and my next therapy appointments were teaching me how to eat again. I had to relearn how to eat, and I'm like, wait, you're supposed to eat a specific way? I had no idea. Um, how can you explain how you are supposed to eat? So, I mean, I feel like anyone can practice this right now. If you are just aware of it, you can practice eating properly. And why does it matter?

SPEAKER_01 40:26

Yeah. So when we do therapy, we start. I think I'll I'll kind of explain a little bit how the process works and it'll help with your listeners of understanding. So if you if we start therapy, we have to work on strengthening those muscles, is what you went through too, Tasha. And then learning how to decompensate yourself. So it's like a boot camp for your muscles. The second phase is what else do those muscles do for us? They chew and they swallow. And if you're compensating, you're also compensating with your chewing and swallowing. We need to support the foundation of function to create the strength and endurance so those muscles can continue to rest in the palate and can continue to be strong even when you're done with therapy. So when you learn to re-swallow and re-chew things, you're also learning how to set your muscles up and the hard tissue, which is bones, the soft tissue is muscles, and so you're learning how to work together with the soft tissue and the hard tissue, chewing, moving the food around. When you drink water, everybody listening, when you take a sip of water, put the tip of your tongue up right behind your two front teeth and take one tiny little sip and try to swallow that water just a little sip without using your lips and without pushing your tongue forward. That's where we start.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

Wait, so uh for those listening, when you're drinking water, where should your tongue be? Is your mouth not just open and you're chugging water, or is your tongue supposed to be somewhere specific?

SPEAKER_01 41:49

Yeah, so your tongue should be great question. Your tongue should be behind your two front teeth, and that the tip of your tongue's your anchor. Okay, so that's going to allow the liquid to come in, but and that's gonna keep your tip of your tongue strong. The back of the tongue is like this rudder, and that's going to pump the liquid and the food down, and it's gonna create like a little vacuum seal. So when you start digestion, it starts up here, and that vacuum seal is gonna help the pressure move the food and liquid down. It's called peristalsis, and it keeps the digestive system in check. So that way everything's moving smoothly and slowly, and enzymes are getting out there, and your church, your just digestive system is gonna love this. So when you drink water, your tongue should always be up, and the back of your tongue needs to be moving. When you showed me just like this, and you're like, what is that doing to your jaw? And so if you have jaw pain, like does not everyone does everyone drink like that, or is it just me?

SPEAKER_00 42:48

I think it might be I was so used to my tongue being restricted that I had to, I had to be very conscious that, like, oh, my tongue is now to the roof of my mouth when I drink and when I eat and when I swallow. Is that why that it can cause issues like constipation and digestion issues if you're not properly chewing or swallowing?

SPEAKER_01 43:05

Yes, because if you don't masticate, masticate is chewing, and you're not using your tongue to move the food and churn it while you're chewing. Think of a think of a washing machine. And when a washing machine spins your clothes, it agitates it and it comes together like this little ball, and all the liquids out of it. It's the same concept. You're churning the food and you're moving it and you're getting it all smooth and almost like puree, and then you move it to the middle of your tongue, and then you seal your tongue up, and that pressure helps your digestive system. And because you should be eliminating or going to the bathroom once a day, you shouldn't be bloated. This was a game changer for me. I just thought, oh, I have IBS. Oh, that's what it is. But honestly, life changing.

SPEAKER_00 43:47

Okay, so what are I would love to know like what are all of the things? I mean, I don't know if we have time for all the things, but what are all of the things that like could be signs? Because I know you mentioned a couple before, but now you're saying IBS. And then another thing that I learned when I started therapy was that I didn't I knew, like we all know our tongue is a muscle, but I didn't know what it looked like to have a tongue that was strong per se. Where when I first started, my tongue was very wide and like I could hardly stick it out of my mouth. And my tongue now when I stick it out is very narrow. I'm like, it is a very toned tongue because I've been doing tongue exercises for so long. But I even remember Becky saying that, yeah, if you ever watch someone who has a lisp, when they talk, their tongue is wide, and a little bit of toning and strengthening could help with speech. And I'm just like, wait, what? Like that's wild. So, what are other things that could be caused from not having you know strong facial muscles, not eating prop the proper way, um, all of that, like even a tongue tie. What are other things that it could be affecting?

SPEAKER_01 44:53

So, how you eliminate food? So, how the food moves out of you, and if you don't have the the pressure at the top properly, it's not gonna provide the pressure that moves the food down and out. It also will lead to a weaker pelvic floor, pelvic floor muscles, yeah. Yes, this is connected to your whole body, it's your fascial chain, so everything's connected, and that's what people forget. Like, our head's connected to our, you know, like that song, like everything's connected. And so for me, like I had 10-pound turkeys when I gave birth, and I always noticed like I would trickle going to the trampoline park. I'm like, oh my gosh, mommy has to wear a diaper or something. But then as I'm going through this process with therapy, because my tongue is up and my fascial chain is lifted up at the top, think of a tent. When you lift it up from the top, everything else is structured and strong. I noticed I was running on the treadmill. I'm like, I'm not trickling, I'm not having to go run and pee. And it's oh my god, it's completely connected. So if you have a child that has constipation issues or just elimination issues, look at the tongue placement because it could also be swallowing, but it could be the pressure or probably hypertonicity from the pelvic floor, not allowing them to eliminate. And then for us ladies having these issues, you know, like jumping and moving and then trickling a little bit or sneezing and crossing your legs, check where your tongue is. So if your tongue's not resting against the roof of your mouth, work on that tongue, suction it up, pull the back of your tongue up, put pressure there, and then when you do that over and over and over again, it's just toning everything from the top down. So that's that's a few that could be life-changing. Yeah, an acid reflux, that's another big one.

unknown 46:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

And why is that? So if you have reflux, you have this the top of your stomach has gastric juice. If your tongue is down and low, and you're you have to breathe a little harder to pass the air through, and you go to lay down and sleep, that's a big one. So if you're over breathing when you sleep, that pressure that you're putting into your body to breathe is pulling up some of that gastric juice from the top of your stomach, and it could move into the esophagus. And the the one thing I always ask, even for kids, is do they do this a lot? Especially when they go to lay down.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

So that's a red flag. And you want to check tongue posture because they're probably not allowing that tongue to be sealed or andor swallowing properly, then swallowing properly. If you're not sealing out the air, you're gonna get air as you digest, and it's gonna fill up your stomach, and whatever else you put in, liquid, etc., that stomach gastric juice is gonna push its way up.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

Wow. So is uh is that also why you know it's more typical to get acid reflux when you're pregnant because you're everything is being squished?

SPEAKER_01 47:39

Yeah, and then the other thing we do with pregnant women and pregnant moms is we work with them on their breathing because your progesterone is at its peak and it creates a lot of elasticity, and so you're over breathing, if you will, because everything's super floppy.

SPEAKER_02 47:53

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 47:53

Because your body's getting ready to spread your hips and get this baby out. And so a lot of complaints we get from pregnant women. I was included in this, is you find yourself catching that next breath. You have a lot of air hunger, you can't sleep, you have a lot of acid reflux when you lay down, and then we go back to what does your muscle function look like inside your mouth? Let's get your muscles toned, let's allow you to breathe better, and it's like game changer for sure.

SPEAKER_00 48:16

That is wild. Can you talk a little bit more? I know you had briefly mentioned this before, specifically with um when you were sharing how you had anxiety, but how does this type of therapy or having a tongue tie relate to nervous system regulation and emotions?

SPEAKER_01 48:32

Yeah. So when you have a tongue tie, your tongue pulls down, you're just moving differently, your diaphragm isn't engaging as much to help you breathe, and this creates faster breathing patterns. When you breathe faster, think about a scenario where you would breathe faster. Is it a calm scenario? No. Is it if you breathe faster, you're either creating your heart to go up, so you're exercising your cardio, you're not calm when you do that, or you're scared or nervous, and that creates a more of an excitatory brain. So your brain gets that that sign, that neurological feedback that, oh, her tongue is down, she's breathing faster, she must be in danger, or she must be in a scenario where we have to send out the signal, the fight or flight signal, to protect her. And so if you're breathing fast and your tongue's always down, you're always in an excitatory state. And you can't just keep you can't keep that up. It's not a way to live. And so everything becomes a threat to you. And I feel I feel bad, and this is to newer moms. If you know that this is relating to you, please do something about it. Because I feel like I I have a lot of guilt. I feel like I could have been a better mom because everything was just such a big deal, and everything was, you know, I was very n neurotic with my kids, and I know a lot of us can relate to that, but I had these underlying issues, and you know, I can't get back that time. And you know, now I just try to be the best, most calm mom I can be with these adults. But going back to when they were little, it's it's hard. And so if you're breathing faster, your tongue's down, your brain just the world's more of a threat.

SPEAKER_00 50:02

And it's I mean, we hear all the time when just take five minutes of deep breathing, that is a very scientific reason why you should take just a couple of minutes to take some deep breaths and calm yourself. I mean, I that is advice I need to take from myself more often throughout the day, but it does make such a big difference. Um, now when it comes to adults getting their tongue tie released, what are some of the results that you have seen from it? And what are some things that surprised you?

SPEAKER_01 50:30

Yeah. So with tongue tie releases with adults, it's way different than with kids. One thing I want to tell your audience is it's not a quick fix, it's really about the compensatory patterns that that tight tongue tie did to those muscles. And so think of running with your shoes tied together. Think of training for a marathon, running with your shoes tied together. How you would use different muscle groups, you would be slower. When we untie the shoes and kind of train you and put those shoes on without being untied, woof, you go for it. Now, when you have the tongue tie and you're not addressing the compensations and you get it done, it could be unsafe for you because there's some areas that we need to focus on as your clinical therapist. If you show us that there's signs that you have a smaller airway, so if you stick out your tongue and you have ridges on the sides of your tongue, that's called scalloping, that tells us that your tongue may not have enough room. So if we give your mouth more tongue, where is that tongue gonna go? Think of a deflated balloon inside your mouth, it's just gonna fall back into your airway. So we need to ensure that you have enough airway space before we work with the clinician that releases the tongue tie. So you want to work with a therapist that really knows this to the foundation of that. With the tongue tie releases, what happens is what I see that surprised me the most is breathing. They feel like, and I this was me, I wasn't sure if this happened to you, Tasha, but I felt I felt like a whole other layer of my body opened up with breathing.

SPEAKER_00 51:56

Yes, it was and it was instant for me. I was just like absolutely the so many things happened instantly for me. Like I felt the tension release. I could close, like when I got my lip done, I was like, oh my gosh, like my lip, like it felt like I had so much more face. It was yes, crazy. I slept better immediately. It was it was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

Safe. I slept that night of my procedure. Like I lit, I literally went to sleep like this, like like this, and I woke up in the safe position. I know it's the best night of sleep I've ever had. So it could definitely help with sleep. Um, and for me, it helps like you probably too. I was out for a run and I just noticed like it felt like some like the tin man in the Wizard of Oz. It felt like somebody came in and like lubed up all my joints, like my body was moving better. Um, I like the breathing was huge for me because I just felt like I could breathe so much better and calmer. And that's the one thing that adults and kids say along we don't say this is gonna happen, but they come back and they're like, my nose feels like I have those dilator strips on it. Like I feel like I just have so much more air I can use, and it's it's insane. It's insane.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

And I know those are really popular. I'm glad you brought that up. Um, they're really popular right now, those nose strips and mouth tape. And if someone does find that that's helping, should they should that be a sign where, hey, maybe if you're really benefitting from this, you would also really benefit from myofunctional therapy.

SPEAKER_01 53:19

Yes. So if you feel like you're using a nasal dilator and it helps you tremendously, then it tells me, what that tells me is that the sides of your nose have some valvular collapse. What that looks like to those who are watching, my nose is very characteristic of that. Now I have a condition called Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, and that is a collagen inherited genetic disorder, and it makes everything just squishy and floppy. But those who do not have Ehlers Danlos, this should not collapse. And so that says, hey, you haven't been using your nose efficiently to where the walls of your nose are tense and strong. The walls of your nose have to collapse because you have to increase the effort in which you breathe. So if you need the intakes, breathe right strips, the internal dilators, you definitely want to look at, ask yourself or feel this out. How fast am I breathing? Do I feel anxious often? Do I feel air hunger often? Is my sleep not great? Am I waking up with a dry mouth? Do I always need water by my bed? Do I always need chapstick? Those are great signs that let's work on your muscle function and your breath, your breathing with breath work too. So that and then mouth tape. If you need mouth tape, it means your mouth is open and your tongue is down. And if it works for you, even if you're not a mouth breather, when you put the mouth tape on, it creates more suction and more pressure inside your mouth. So it helps pull your tongue more forward.

SPEAKER_00 54:39

So yeah. You know, that's interesting because I was using mouth tape before, and I've realized after getting my release, it's like I don't feel like this is really doing much for me anymore. Like I think I just naturally sleep with my mouth closed and my tongue upright. Yes. Love that. Love it. So okay, if someone is listening to this right now, I mean, it took me a long time to figure out where to even go to get this looked at, where to start. I didn't know if I needed therapy first or if I needed to go find someone that could do the procedure. If someone is listening and going, oh my gosh, this is me, this is me, this is me, what what's the next step for them?

SPEAKER_01 55:14

So we strongly recommend working with specialists like us and our team, myself and our team, because we will manage your referrals. We will manage who's the best match for you. We will manage other considerations. Besides, if you were to walk into a place that offers tongue ties, a red flag is if they say they can do it the same day without therapy, don't do it. You're gonna you're just gonna pay for the procedure, put yourself through kind of a traumatic scenario and need there need even more therapy because you'll probably have some scar tissue.

SPEAKER_00 55:45

You know, in the Facebook group, there were people that did that and they said their procedure did nothing for them. And then there were people that did therapy before and they were the ones that said it was life-changing. And now I understand why.

SPEAKER_01 55:56

Yeah, it's and there's a new study that just came out. If you go to the website, the Breathe Institute, there's a lot of research. If you if you're somebody that needs the research and the studies, this has been done for hundreds of years. It's not a new concept. Um, it's been around, it just hasn't been mainstream. So there's a ton of research out there. Now, second to that is we offer virtual options. We're local to Phoenix and we have a location central Phoenix and also in Mesa. But I've done virtual in-state and globally because there's not a lot of us. There's nothing yeah, I see.

SPEAKER_00 56:27

And what's your website for those listening?

SPEAKER_01 56:29

My myo, my health. So myo my health.com. Mayo just means muscle. So my we're taking ownership, we're getting our muscles back because this is our health. So let's take charge of our health, let's do something about that. So go on the website, there's consultations, virtual consultations, and we can just give you some direction of where to start if you need it, what what your case may look like. And I think that's a great place to start.

SPEAKER_00 56:56

And you also have an amazing Instagram page as well. I would recommend going to follow them because they share so much information. I mean, this I feel like this podcast is just a small little snippet of all of the things. Um, and is that also just at my myo my health on Instagram?

SPEAKER_01 57:14

Yep, Instagram, my myo, my health, and then we're also Facebook, YouTube, TikTok. I love TikTok, so I'm on TikTok a lot. Um, and that's also my myo, my health. And uh yeah, pretty much every platform we have a presence on, and I just try to put out so much education so nobody has to go through what I went through as a mom and as a person.

SPEAKER_00 57:32

Now, is there anything else that um you do for myofunctional therapy aside from the exercises that you do for your face, tongue tie release, and lip tie release? Is there anything else that could potentially be going on?

SPEAKER_01 57:45

Yes, so the other things that we we can work on is fascial work. So, like I said, I mentioned very briefly, underneath your dermis or your skin, there's encasing that that holds us together. It's called fascia. And a lot of times, even with infants, there is a lot of fascial restriction because of the birth position. So if you're in one spot for a long, long time, when you come out, you may not be feeding well because you have so much fascial restriction. And so we have somebody that works on that that helps reorganize your body. Think of fascia as like this matrix of webbing. And if you have tension at the top, you're gonna have tension at the bottom. So that's another component because it's super important. We store a lot of memories and feelings in our fascia. And the other part for me is I had a lot of trauma that I was working on during this process, and the fascia work is really what after I did my tongue-tie release, that was like a big part of it, and I think that's why I had a big emotional reaction. It throat chakra. I know it's a little woo woo, but throat chakra opened up, and and I've had several clients also say, you know, I just don't feel anxious talking anymore, and I don't know what happened, but I had so many dreams. Really? It's crazy. So fascia health is also super important. So we have somebody that works. Okay, what's throat chakra?

SPEAKER_00 59:00

Can you explain that a little bit more?

SPEAKER_01 59:02

So it's a little repertoire. But when you talk about the chakra points in your body, everything has a purpose. So your throat chakra helps you speak your mind and speak your voice and open up your feelings. And so if you're tongue-tied, think of that as being a little held back in your expressive language, in how you express yourself and expressing your feelings, allowing things to be let go of. I was going through this tremendous transformation in holding a lot of my my PTSD from my military career and a lot of early early events of my childhood. When I let my tongue tie go, worked on my breathing, and then did the fascial work. Oh my goodness, it was just like super transformative. So there's a lot there. There's a lot to unpack there.

SPEAKER_00 59:46

I mean, I feel I'm kind of going through a very similar journey myself right now. I'm I'm I'm personally doing EMDR for PTSD. Got my tongue tie released, got my hormones checked. I mean, I feel, I truly feel like the best version of myself after having kids because I've put so much effort into finding out the root cause of why I am experiencing certain things, and it has been life-changing. And I love hearing that you had a very similar experience too.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:13

Yeah, I think our stories are a little similar because I was on when I was looking at your website too. I couldn't, I had such a hard time losing weight, and I gave I gained so much weight um during that time, that that time that I had started having kids and I wasn't sleeping well. That's another thing I didn't mention. Your hormones that when you sleep, leptin and ghrelin, those hormones specifically tell you if you're full, if you're satiated, if you need, if you need to eat more. Yeah, I couldn't lose weight for the life of me. After I did all of this, guess what? Started coming off. And I think it's yeah, it's it's it's what you hold, it's what you're what you're holding on to. And a big part of that, if you're not sleeping well, you're gonna keep holding on to it. If you don't unlock your fascia to allow your body to start to move, like it's the body keeps score, right? So it's a big component of all of that. And I just love the I love what you're putting out there right now, Tasha.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:04

Thank you, and thank you so much for coming on today, Kelly. I think this is gonna be so informative and so helpful for a lot of women out there, a lot of moms out there, even men. I know mostly women listen to me, but are your do your husbands have sleep apnea? Maybe they should go to myofunctional therapy. Um, so I want to thank you again, and I want to end out our podcast with a little, a short segment with just some rapid fire questions. Are you ready?

unknown 1:01:29

I'm ready.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:30

Okay, so what is one normal kid behavior that is actually a red flag?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:36

A snoring. Snoring. Snoring is never normal. It's airway distress. Help me, help me. I'm snoring.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:42

What? Okay, next one. What is the pacifier take that you have that might ruffle feathers?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:47

Oh, the nub, the wub and up. When you attach a stuffy onto the end of those things, I'm like, I want to go over and save your child and clip it off because that exerts more force than orthodontic brackets. Oh my gosh. Please don't put a stuff on the other. That's what I used. Yeah, please don't put a stuffy on a pacifier and please don't buy your loved ones a stuffy. Thank you.

unknown 1:02:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:08

Um, what is something you always notice within five seconds of looking at someone?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:13

Oh gosh. That's a lot of questions.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:16

I just know because when I started myofunctional therapy, I like started noticing things. I was like, I have never noticed that in someone before, but I know it. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:24

It's a curse, right? Like it is a curse. So I'll I'll look at their uh how they smile, I'll look at their buckle corridors. So the space between the end of the smile and where the cheek hits you. So if you have buckle corridors, you could fit your fingers in there. It tells me I have a little bit. It tells me that your palate isn't wide enough, and I say to myself, Oh, they're probably not sleeping or breathing well.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:45

Really? Wait, do I have I can't little bit, but yeah, I think I do I do have more of a narrow palette that we decided not to do expansion on.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:57

And I did I did a little bit. I'm still going through my process. My husband's actually in in uh surgical skeletal expansion for his sleep apnea right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:04

It's been likely yeah, and I just wanted to mention that because I did have expansion as a child, never did myofunctional therapy, and I still feel I feel like my palate is still narrow, probably not as narrow as it would be. Um and can you just really briefly talk about expansion as an adult? Because I know it is so different as an adult than if you are a child. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:26

So with kids, if they if they have expansion as a child, what happened was is that the tongue wasn't there to support what the orthodontist did mechanically to spread the palate. So if the tongue's not there, you're gonna relapse. That palette's just gonna narrow because your bones are more malleable. Now, as an adult with expansion, there's different types of expansion. There is dental alveolar expansion where they just push your teeth out with like an invisalign or braces. You have to have an airway orthodontist or an airway dentist doing this procedure because just the run of the mill, they're not gonna know enough, okay? So you could do invisalign, you could do like a vivos or an oral appliance. Then there's actual skeletal expansion where they have to anchor tiny little screws into your maxilla, your upper jawbone, and mechanically open or break open the suture that runs from your front teeth to the back of your upper palate. And that slow, slow opening is gonna open up the base of the nose to where you're not having to increase your effort to breathe. You have less turbulence, less inflammation. So this allows you to also have more tongue space in both scenarios. So it's definitely a specialist that you want to see for this. And if people are interested, we have our specialists we work with in the valley, but we also do have a lot of awareness throughout the globe, too.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:40

So yes, and that's something I know expansion as an adult is a little bit more intense, and you're probably not telling every adult to do it unless it's a severe case. Um, so if you get evaluated, I love that you will give referrals because I feel like airway specialist is kind of a buzzword now, and I'm yes, and I feel a little bit skeptical going knowing what I know, I feel a little bit skeptical when someone just says they're an airway specialist. How would I know for sure if they are?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:06

So if you it's it's different based on their scenario. So if you're going to an office that offers appliances, um, it offers expansion, ask them who their myofunctional therapist is. If they don't know and they're like uh-uh-uh-uh, then that's a red flag. If they don't also have an ENT that they refer to and they're uh uh uh, that's a red flag. If they're not checking tongue position and looking at tonsils and have an airway image to use to treatment plan your case, that's a red flag.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:37

Okay, those are all really great questions to ask when you go to an orthodontist. Um okay, back to our rapid fire. I have two more left. No, it's okay, it's okay. That's it's such good information. And I mean, I have so I always have so many questions. Um, what's one thing you wish more pediatricians were trained to screen for? Sleep disorder breathing. And how can is that something that a parent Could also check for yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:03

So I there's a study that interviewed a bunch of pediatricians, and like the process that they have for sleep apnea and how many children are actually getting referred correctly is like less than 30% because they don't know. They don't have a protocol. The AA, the the American Academy of Pediatrics, they do not have a protocol. So parents, take a 30-second video of your child sleeping. Take a 30-second video of your child sleeping. We want to know positions, we want to know what their mouth's doing, and we want to hear how they're breathing. Show that to your pediatrician and ask for a referral. Now, an ENT may only offer you steroids like flonase or surgery. That's where we come in. So once again, we're managing your case with all of the options and education to educate you to make those right decisions and choices. So take the video, show the pediatrician. If you don't get a proper referral, find a therapist. And honestly, that's it's just helpful because we can direct you where to go.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:00

And myMio does telehealth. So you can always get a consultation there as well. All right, last question. What is one thing parents can do this week for their own airway health and their kids' airway health?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:12

Start cleaning your nose. So use saline spray or clear spray.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:17

I link that all the time. I tell people this changed my life. And you can't use too much of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:22

No, you're so clear spray X-L-E-A-R, they have xylitol and grapefruit seed extract. Those two products are natural. There's no, it's not medication. So the medicament itself that you're putting inside your nose, they have a kid's version that's just a really light mist. And the adult version, it's the same stuff, has a pump. Now, if you're using that two to three times a day, it's therapeutic, it's prophylactic. So it's just, I tell the kids, you clean your butts and you clean your armpits. Why not clean your dirty little nose? That's so true. It's, I mean, you have to think of it, you have to put it into their terms, right? So if your nose doesn't work well, that could be the domino that spills everything over, that lowers your tongue, that creates the dysfunction. So keep your nose clean.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:06

That is amazing. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Kelly. Everything that we mentioned in this episode, all of the websites, all of those links, I will make sure to put that in the description for you. If you think that you might have a tongue tie or might have issues caused by your facial muscles, please go get a consult. It has been life-changing for me, and I think it could do the same for a lot of people. So thank you so much again, Kelly. This was incredible. Thank you, thank you for having me. You made it to the end, which means you're officially one of the real ones. Don't forget to follow, leave a five star review, and text this episode to your bestie. And if you want the unfiltered behind the scenes, make sure to get on the email list. The link is in the show notes.