Women Leaders And The Invisible Weight They Carry

Leadership can look powerful on the outside while feeling painfully quiet on the inside. We’re Kayla and Shelby, and we get real about the loneliness that shows up when you’re a woman leading teams, building a business, and trying to have a life that doesn’t collapse under the mental load. If you’ve ever skipped the networking night because it’s your only time with your kid, or felt like nobody in the room understands what you’re carrying, this conversation is for you. 

We talk about what it’s like navigating male-dominated industries, the pressure to “earn respect,” and the mask we put on to avoid being labeled too emotional or too vulnerable. We also name the stuff people avoid: hormones, chronic health challenges like PCOS and endometriosis, and how women keep moving things forward anyway. Then we share a simple daily tool that helps when overwhelm hits hard: reconnecting to your intentions so you can focus on what matters right now instead of spiraling into everything at once. 

The conversation goes deeper into how loneliness can show up as self-doubt, overworking, and shutting down, plus how past trauma can program our nervous system to blame ourselves. We close with what we’d say over coffee to anyone feeling isolated: you’re not broken, and you don’t have to do it alone. Subscribe, share this with a woman who needs it, and leave a review with the one line that hit you hardest.

Order "Market Like a Boss" at www.shelbysmarketingbook.com

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:49

Okay, so much better. There we go. Okay, so I already hit record, so we will get something. There we go. All

Why Women Leaders Feel Alone

SPEAKER_00 0:58

right. Hey guys, what's up? It is another episode of Between Us with Kayla and Shelby. Our energy today, y'all. We can't wait. It's gonna be so good. Watch out. We just had like a whole conversation. So uh yeah, we're definitely ready to dive in. Today we're talking about the loneliness of leadership and women. No, loneliness of women and leadership. One of those.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

One of those, I think they both work. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

They both work. They both work for sure. Um, but Kayla came up with today's topic, and it's something that we both definitely feel very passionate about and something we want to share um with you guys. But Kayla, I'll let you get started. I love this topic.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Um, first of all, because I feel it. I feel it really strongly, especially right now. We were just talking about personal things and kind of feeling lonely and some of that. But for me, that the personal experience that I've had as a woman in this life directly impacts my leadership loneliness experience too. And that's one of the reasons why I was so excited to meet you last year, because it's so, so, so rare that I meet other women at this same level, entrepreneurs, making things happen. It's so rare that I meet women who are also mothers. And not only that, who are also solo mothers, managing a ton of stuff, right? Like I never meet other women in this situation. Most of my friends are single women with no kids. That's that's just the way that it is. And um so I often feel very lonely with my experience because I do end up having to say no to a lot of things. I end up having to be really careful about my energy and about my boundaries. And I won't say that I like I miss out on a lot because I think my life is just the way that it should be. And I get to have a lot of experiences because I am a mother that I wouldn't have otherwise. But I have to be a lot more careful about it. I can't attend all of the events. I have priorities, and it's just I don't get to have these conversations with people very often about what it's like to be a mom in our position and also doing all of these things.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Absolutely. And I never really thought leadership would be lonely. I mean, yes, we have all these other things. If you really narrow it down to leadership, I thought that, you know, having people follow me, because when I was younger, I would be in um all these boards and I would do like leadership roles in different organizations. Like that's where I thought I felt needed in a way, because that's kind of something I need in my life, is for people to need me or me to fix their problems. Um, but I really think that just because I did all those and thinking I was involved, I was still really lonely. And being a mom helps with that loneliness. Like obviously, we have someone around us 24-7. So if we think of like the physical loneliness, that we don't have to worry about, but it's really, I feel like the mental loneliness is what I feel in these positions because there aren't many people like us, like you said, that we can relate to because we're looking at, I mean, everyone on my team, they don't have kids. Well, I'm sorry, one does, she has two kids, but the other ones don't. And so when I'm like, oh, well, we all go to this event because this is a Kenzie night, you know, like, oh, will you take over this because it's a Kenzie night? Like, as much as I would love to be there, I can't come to Windown Wednesdays because it's windown Wednesday at home with my child. Like, that's those are my days with her, you know. I don't know if maybe you feel the same way when it comes to leading other organizations and stuff too.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Yeah,

The Mental Load In Male Spaces

SPEAKER_01 4:51

absolutely. And um, I'll I'll kind of add on to that a little bit too, because I definitely feel the loneliness in that respect, like like you're talking about, but also simply loneliness being a woman and having the experience of being a woman in business environments and these because we all know that there are certain rules by which we have to play. And a lot of these systems, this system was not built with women in mind, and certainly not women who are mothers and trying to manage a household at the same time. So we have tons and tons of stuff. Like you said, this this emotional and mental weight that we're carrying is huge. There's so much, and sure, we can have systems that make things smarter and and this, that, and the other. But at the end of the day, like I've been having this moment lately. I'm not gonna lie, I'm 42 now. Done with it, I'm done with with being too nice, I'm done with trying to play some of these games and follow these rules that never really made sense to me anyway. And I'm just tired. I'm tired, and so it's a lot easier for me now to say no to things. I don't really feel like I'm missing out anymore. I feel like I'm being smart and strategic about my time. But going back to what I was saying initially, the experience of being a woman in the these in business is isolating. I come from tech startups, so it's like so many men. Right, right. And I remember being in rooms with men, and they would talk as a single mother, a new, a new single mother, and they would talk about how stressful it was for them to come to work because they had wives at home with their kid with staying at home with the kids, and like it was so stressful for them to go back home because they wouldn't know they would come back home and they would have to do things at home, and it was so stressful for them. So they just wanted to stay at the office. And I'm thinking, can we just hurry up and get things done? Because I don't have time for this, because I actually have to go back and pick up my child and then get all the things done by myself.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

So yes, exactly. Yeah, and I feel that. Do you watch Mormon wives? I don't. Okay, so I created this TikTok because no one in my life does. So, anyways, this is the perfect example, goes straight into that. So, Mormon wives, they're like all TikTok influencers, they're like freaking killing the game. They do all these brands. I mean, they're making millions of dollars, like they're very, very well off. The women are the breadwinners. Well, this last season, the men had to take a step back and do the woman duties at home. So the men are talking to each other and they're like, you know, I just I feel like I'm losing myself, man. I just don't know if I'm cut out for this. And I'm like, eh. So that was one thing. I was like, ick, okay. And then the next uh conversation was, you know, by the time she gets home, then she expects me to pay attention to her and ask about her day. And I've been with the kids all day and she wants dinner made. And I'm like, I mean, welcome to America. Like, I don't know, like that is the role that you've assumed. Like, I don't think there's gender roles, anyways, in relationships. That's not how we do our relationship. And I think that it was really eye-opening for me to see men struggling with that on TV, and people were feeling sorry for them. No, ma'am. No, we don't feel sorry for them. Like, they assume that role just as much as their wives did before they became influencers. Their wives were traditional stay-at-home wives, they were with the kids all day and they were working. So this like you had to give and take. And I just thought it was interesting to watch men struggle with this on TV when women struggle with this every day, and yet we get no sympathy.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's so I actually heard about that. I don't watch the show, but I I heard about some of the moments on the show that were similar to what you're talking about. And also let's be clear things like doing the laundry, cooking, making keeping a calendar. Yeah, these are life skills. These are not one gender specific, one gender is better at doing laundry. Come on, we can all learn how to do laundry and how to do these things. But yeah, it's it's an isolating experience when you're the only woman in the room carrying all these things in your head that have to be done. Uh and most of the men, I'm just gonna say this from my own experience, most of the men don't have that same responsibility. It's isolating. And I have felt so isolated throughout much of my career. Um, but certainly once I've become a business owner and entrepreneur, working a lot, you know, out of my office here where it's a little bit isolating. That's where I found it really great to get out into the community, meet other people, find awesome women like yourself. Yeah. And even online with LinkedIn, I've I've been able to connect with a lot of people I wouldn't have met otherwise. So there are ways to connect with people that are on the same level and going through the same thing, but you have to work at it.

A Daily Practice For Overwhelm

SPEAKER_00 10:31

And something that I've been practicing for the last month and a half, every day at 9 a.m., I have a reminder on my phone and it says, connect to your intentions. So when I'm feeling overwhelmed or lonely, or last week's spring break, we're talking about, you know, had my kid every day. And there were days that I was just like so annoyed because I was having to be with her. But then also I had all this like, okay, I've got this whole checklist. So once she's in bed, I'm gonna get this done now, or okay, we're at the office. If she's, you know, preoccupied with blippy or whatever she's watching, I can get this stuff done, you know, or whatever. But what I what helped me is that practice of in the moment when I would get overwhelmed, I would just go, okay, my intention right now is to spend time with my daughter at the zoo for two hours. Okay, so that's what I did. I blocked out everything else. My intention was there, my energy was there. We had the best time. She was so well behaved. We didn't fight when we were leaving, like it was a whole thing. Well, then she went to her dad's for a couple of hours and I was like, okay, my intentions are for the next couple hours, I'm gonna sit here, get my emails done, get the like five things on my list, got them all done, blocked everything out. So I really think that if people started applying that to their life and connecting to their intentions in the moment that they're feeling overwhelmed, they'll get a lot more done because it's so easy for us to be at the top, be leaders, be lonely, have all these things we need to get done and just be um annoyed, I guess is my number one emotion. But then I'm also I shut down. If I'm overwhelmed, I just shut down. I'm like, okay, I just want to go lay on the couch and watch Mormon Wives or, you know, some stupid show that makes me feel better about the life that I live. But really, I'm just welcoming more chaos at that point. But it's one of those things where I'm like, okay, I just want to shut down. And connecting to my intentions has really helped. Like right now, it's like I could sit here and go, okay, I've got all this stuff to do because I did travel day yesterday. Okay, I've got all this stuff to do, but it's like, no, my intentions is to sit here, have a great conversation with you, connect with the people on LinkedIn after we post this and see how they can also learn from us. And it's helped me really focus in on what we're doing here.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

I love that. It's brilliant. It's kind of it reminds me of um from 12 steps, like the whole concept of one day at a time, one moment at a time. Um, because you're absolutely right. We all in this modern world have so many things to do, whether you're a woman or a man or a parent or not a parent or you're who cares? We all have a million things going on. So picking out and prioritizing what's that highest impact thing, what actually needs to get done today. I did that this morning. I have a huge pile of papers on this table that I'm sitting at. Yeah. And I was like, if I can just get through the tax documents, it's a win. Like I'm happy. And so that's what I did. I sat down, got through it. Nice. And then I was like, I'm gonna make myself a cup of coffee because I need a little reward, right? A little positive reinforcement. But it's it is, it's so easy to get distracted by the notifications and things like that. I think that's that's a um power move, absolutely, what you just what you just mentioned.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Why do

Masks, Vulnerability, And Respect

SPEAKER_00 13:55

you think that it's difficult for women to admit that we're lonely or to admit that we feel like heaviness? Like, why do you think that's so I don't know, difficult for us to do in leadership? Like maybe vulnerability or weakness?

SPEAKER_01 14:10

I think it's yes, it's traditionally perceived as a sign of vulnerability, which is in these systems that we live in, um, that is perceived as a weakness. So in order for women to play this game in business, uh especially if it's with certain types of personalities, I'll just say it, certain types of male personalities, we do have to, it's part of a strategy to put on a mask and not to admit those things. However, it's not healthy, like emotionally, it's not healthy to do that for anyone. So that's why having these conversations and talking about these things and creating communities of women where we can openly talk about these moments where we do feel overwhelmed, we do feel um inadequate and secure, these are all normal feelings, they're normal, healthy feelings, and it's okay to talk about them. Creating spaces where we can do that safely is important, but I will say again, like it, like there is some strategy to it. If you were gonna go into a meeting with some CEOs that aren't gonna have any of that, right, I would wear, I would probably wear my mask. And then when I get to a safe space, I would talk about it. But um a hundred percent, that's why.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Yeah, when Nick and I first started dating, I had this what he called the facade, but really it is that mask that I have to put on when I'm working. It's just he he thinks it's funny because if he'll go with me to a job or to a meeting or something like that, he'll be like, okay, there's boss Shelby, you know, like okay, there's work mode Shelby. And it is, it's completely different than me and him going out for the weekend and like having fun and letting our hair down. Like, no, I have to go into these meetings and be serious because just like you, I'm also in a male-dominant industry in marketing. And people think there's women. I'm like, there's women social media managers, but I'm talking about like marketing consulting, marketing coaching, like actual marketing agency owners are very like much so males. And so I'm having to go in there and earn the respect of them, let alone all these other women that have come in and have not done what they said they were gonna do. They've lost the trust. And so I'm trying to make up for trust that they've lost. And so I'm having to like not be emotional. Let's throw in hormones in there, ladies. We all have hormones. Like we have the one week a month that we actually feel good, but there's literally one week for me. I feel like in the whole month, I'm like, this one week I like look by me. I'm like, okay, girl, you know. But other than that, I can't promise you the other three weeks, I'm like, okay, I'm kind of tired, you know. Like I also deal with like PCOS and endometriosis and things like that. So, and I know you deal with things too. And it's like when you throw all that on top of it, oh, we're just supposed to be like, sure, we're happy and dandy, and like this is us, you know, and it makes it harder. And people just don't talk about it because we were raised, like we were talking about earlier. We were raised in a society where it's gross and it's looked down upon, and that it's not supposed to be natural. I don't know, like people just don't talk about it or acknowledge it anymore.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Yeah, and it and that creates shame. It creates shame and it creates loneliness and it creates isolation, and you go to work and you don't feel well, and um you're just you're just supposed to get on with your day, right? And it's a lot that we carry as women, and at the same time, though, we still get it done, and often we get things done. We were talking about this beforehand too. Often we are the ones who are kind of like the default managers, and we carry a lot in our minds, in our headspace when it comes to making sure all of the things get done. So make no mistake, even though we're dealing with this constant kind of like physical wave of hormones, yeah, we're still here showing up, participating, and often the ones that are moving things forward. I find that that very often with my clients is I'm I'm the one who's like, okay, so what are the action items? Like, what are we going to do? Did we get these things done? Okay, this is what we have to do today. Everybody go and do it. And that's a lot. It's a lot to carry your own responsibility for your own day and then for your child's, and then to also have to manage all the different personalities and people at work, and maybe in your relationship, you're carrying some of that too. That's a whole job. There's a job title for that. It's called project manager, executive assistant. Like, there's a whole job that are those things.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Yes, yes. I totally agree. Where do you where do you like personally seek out like support and stuff when you go through that?

Finding Support That Actually Helps

SPEAKER_01 19:46

I have a couple good girlfriends, um, who are some of the only one who is probably the only person who knows really what I've gone through from the beginning. And when I'm really having a moment, she's who I talk to because she knows all the nuances of how I'm feeling. I have other women. I've learned that it's really important to have women friends. I never really had a lot of women friends before, like in my 20s, and even part of my even through my 30s, I am very interested in having women friends at this point and all ages of women friends, too. I find when I can talk to a woman who's older and kind of been through some of this stuff, it's really grounding to be able to have that perspective. I love it. I love it. Yes. So that's what that's what I do. Um, I used to have a lot of men kind of mentors, and they are helpful. And I'm very grateful for all of the venture, the mentorship that I've received. As the years pass, I realize there's just nothing like a woman who gets it.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Yeah, my best friend is 49 and I'm 32. And so we definitely are in different seasons of life. Like her grandchild is six months younger than my child. So we're like, you know, it's kind of one of those situations, but we get along so well because we are in different seasons. And, you know, even though I haven't experienced what she is going through, I can still be like her support system, you know. And then she's like, listen, I've been there, done that. This is what's up, you know, like it's nice to have those people. And I didn't have a lot of women friends either growing up. I thought that women were dramatic and I had a lot of guy friends and hung out, you know, with them. And I thought that was the cool way to go. But yeah, I and my business coach was a man and he's still great, someone that I would, you know, go to today if I ever needed anything. But it is important that we recognize how strong we are and how resilient we are, even though we're going through this. And everyone who's listening to this, the women I know every woman, if you're in leadership, if you are a stay-at-home mom, if you are someone that just started a business or whatever, like you may not even be a mom, you're just a woman in leadership. Like it is definitely something that you deal with and you can relate to at some point in your career, I believe at least.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Looking back on mine, like you were saying, everyone who's listening is at some point in their career. Yeah. And there are different aha moments that you're going to have. Throughout that, and there are different points of like questions that you're going to have. I remember the big question for me in my 20s was like, Why am I not getting the promotions? Why am I coming here? I'm showing up. I'm working so hard. I'm getting the job done, but I just keep getting passed over. Like I couldn't figure out why. And now looking back, I can see it really clearly that it's a perception issue when it comes to especially younger women in leadership. There's just bias, there's perception issues. I mean, I'm speaking broadly, there are all kinds of reasons this could be. But generally speaking, there are perception issues with younger women and leadership. So being able to have someone that you can reach out to and talk to, I've done this a lot in my coaching. Um, had more kind of like junior PMs come to me for mentorship or coaching, and we have conversations around like, how can I say things in a way that will resonate with leadership? How can I carry myself in a way that still feels authentic to me, but I'm not coming across as too vulnerable. I'm not coming across as too emotional. We have to really, depending on what your goals are in your career, because this is not the goal for everyone, we really have to manage those things. We have to watch ourselves very, very closely in a way that men don't. And so if all we surround ourselves with are men, men mentors, men at work, we are gonna feel end up feeling isolated because we can do the exact same thing and get totally different results, which is often what happens. It's a different game, it's a different game.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Absolutely, absolutely. And let's talk about like how loneliness shows up. I think me and you probably will have different answers on this.

Self-Doubt, Trauma, And Healing

SPEAKER_00 24:34

So, like, how would loneliness show up in leadership for you? Like, what were what are those moments like for you?

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Um questioning myself. I think for me and my personality, it's gonna look different for everyone, but I tend to always turn it back on myself. I'll think that I did something wrong. Yeah. Um yeah, I I turn it back on myself and I end up feeling like I need to do more. I need to do to do more, to meet the right people, to get the raise, to get the promotion, to get the job. That what am I missing? What do I need to do? What more do I need to do? Now that I have a few years behind me, I still have those thoughts, but not as intensely as I used to. And I'm able to better manage my own emotional state through yoga, through journaling, through talking to friends, um, having that community of women. But I still feel that loneliness and that isolation. And really now it feels like kind of like deeper in more of an existential way, because I realize the gravity of what that loneliness is and that it's real and that I wasn't imagining it. So having those practices that can kind of ground you and a good community and what I would recommend.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

So when I was 18, I got married. Um, and I was mentally and physically abused for four years. So that's how I started my life as an adult was being isolated, being lonely, nobody knew what was going on, no one would say anything. Like we had a business together. It was very well known in the community. Like our business was, you know, but it was everything would happen like behind closed doors and that kind of stuff. And so I carried that when I finally left him at 22 years old, like such a young, immature age, but I thought I was such an adult. But when I left him, I think I carried that loneliness with me. And it wasn't until recently being with the man that I am with now that I finally don't feel the loneliness all the time. And I think that that's so rewarding because I finally have released that. And like, not because I think it's because I was so afraid to lean on somebody emotionally, especially emotionally, right? Like if leaning on them, like then our our feelings get hurt. Like he would never, he would never physically abuse me. Like he's amazing. But it's like just being like, okay, he's not gonna hurt my heart, he's not gonna hurt my feelings, like you know, this kind of stuff. And so finding that's really good. And then I love that you came up with this topic today because those same feelings I have in my business late at night. Like if I'm laying in bed, I'm like, oh, you know, like you said, do more. Maybe I should, maybe I should have done this, maybe I should do that, maybe, you know, and I have all these ideas, and I think I choose busyness to ignore the loneliness rather than what you're saying. Feel it, sit in it, journal about it. It's okay to be that way, and then move on and then show up for yourself in a different way. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Yeah. We can something I say to my daughter a lot is we can feel the feeling without becoming the feeling. So we can feel lonely without being lonely, like as our identity. And what you said, thank you for sharing your story and part of your story too. Um yes, this is going back to what we were talking about at the beginning of the episode. The experiences that we have as women in our formative years, and especially in those relationships that we have that are kind of like key core relationships, the body holds the score. So if we've experienced any kind of trauma, any kind of abuse, our bodies are programmed to respond in a certain way. And often when we go into the workplace or starting our own business, we encounter personality types that are going to be similar to what we experienced in that relationship. We encounter situations and we're gonna react in the same way. So when I said that I'm always kind of hyper-vigilant about myself, what did I do wrong? What did I mess up? What could I do better? That's because somewhere along the way it was programmed into me that I was the problem. So naturally that's gonna be a feeling that I have, and and it plays into that loneliness too. But yes, that thank you for sharing that. I think that's that's a brilliant connection.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

So to close it out, if someone's listening, well, we know lots of people are listening. Hey y'all. Um so the people

Build Your Community And Reach Out

SPEAKER_00 29:34

that are listening, let's say they're like, okay, I'm super lone right now. What do you want them to hear if you were sitting there having coffee with them?

SPEAKER_01 29:44

I see you. I see you a hundred percent. Um I wish I could give you a hug. Right. Because we all know some aspect of that lonely feeling. And I would say the the best thing that you can do when you feel alone is to not to to not chronically put yourself in situations where you are alone, to get out, to create a community, to call someone, to talk to someone is probably the last thing you feel like doing, but it will help you.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Yes. And I am a prime example of that. Like I don't open up to a lot of people for obvious reasons. And it's one of those that when I go through bouts of depression or this loneliness and things, I finally feel comfortable to have the two or three people in my life that I'm like, listen, I'm not my best self today. I just need you to listen. Don't try to solve my problems, just sit there, listen to me, give me a hug. My best friend knows if I give her a hug, she's like, Are you okay? I am not a hugger. We are not, I am not like a physical touch person at all. So um, some days I'll be like, Hey, by the way, when we meet for coffee, I'm gonna give you a hug. And I have to like warn her so she's not like, Are you okay? You know, yeah, yeah. Like, what's going on? So I definitely love that. Like, we see you, we understand you, we live it ourselves as well. Um, and to find your community and just if you don't have a community, like reach out to us, like message us, DM us, like leave a comment. Like, we would love to be here for you and just connect with you so that way you know that we're on your side. I mean, I am, I know you are too.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Absolutely. Yes, I'll echo what Shelby said. I'm always checking my LinkedIn DMs. Yeah. So message me anytime. Send us that DM, yo.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Yeah, come on, drop of that DM down there.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

But I can't I can't say that, but I don't think she's cool enough to say that.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Hey, Listen, I'm learning all the jargon, okay? Having a 12-year-old stepdaughter, it's really great. She's like, I'm like learning like that and all it's like a whole person. Don't get it. It's so cringy. I cannot. They're like, clock the tea. And I'm like, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Yeah, we're not calling it. You're gonna have to give me a lesson because I I just yeah, I'm having a hard time.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

And all these people watching are like, don't do it again, don't do it again. That was embarrassing. Yeah, I got it. I am now feeling lonely with my clock the tea that I just did. Thank you so much. All right, y'all. We will catch you next month or whenever we decide to do it. You just never know, but we'll catch you whenever uh we see you next time. Bye.