A Mother, a Daughter, and Life’s Wisdom

In this heartfelt episode of Dose of Pause, Rajinder Rai is joined by her daughter, Kavita Rai, for an intimate, multi-generational conversation on life, growth, and wisdom.

At just 24, Kavita steps into the role of interviewer—asking her mother thoughtful, honest questions about life lessons, self-trust, and navigating change. Together, they explore generational differences, how perspectives evolve over time, and what truly matters as you move through different chapters of life.

This episode is a beautiful reflection on the mother-daughter bond, generational shifts, and the kind of advice we wish we could give our younger selves—and hear when we’re ready to listen.

Ready to take the next step in your midlife journey?

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Did you ever feel like you had to live a double life? Wow.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

It's a loaded question there. You can run into it. After 30 years in healthcare and a lifetime of overfunctioning, I finally hit pause. And what I discovered is this midlife isn't about having all the answers. It's about learning to live inside the unknown. That's why I created Dose of Pause. To walk this journey together, each week we'll explore the science, the soul, and the strategies that help us navigate midlife. We'll talk about menopause and hormones, burnout and exhaustion, confidence and identity, longevity and vitality. You'll hear from trusted experts, real women in our community, and my own story as I connect the dots and share what it really takes to move from surviving to thriving. Because midlife isn't your sunset, it's your sunrise. Welcome back to the Dose of Pause podcast. And I'm so excited for today's guest, my daughter, Kavita Rye. Welcome, Kavita.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Thanks for having me. I'm so excited. I feel like we've been talking about doing this for a while. And it's been really fun to see you get in the podcast seat and interview other guests. And I'm excited to be one of them today.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Well, welcome. And I'm so excited to really talk about this year. You turned 24. And I had to take a step back and really like, oh my gosh, my daughter's 24. And where did the time go? And it kind of brought me back to thinking about when I was 25 and where I was and what I was doing and where you are. And it's feels like night and day difference.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

We are in such different places. Like you were dealing with some real life choices, whereas whereas I very much beginning to adult, I would say, but nowhere near what you were doing. So what were like what set the stage? Like what was you? Like what were you doing at 24?

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Well, 24, I was already married and pregnant with your brother. So definitely a different stage responsibilities. I had gotten, I was already married for about two years. And I really was just, you know, going down that checklist of expectations that were, you know, put for me. And, you know, you finish school, you get married, and the next thing is have a kid. And there really wasn't any pause in between finishing school, getting married, and then, you know, getting pregnant. So it was just like rolling from one stage to the other.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

I am so curious what you, your mindset was at the time and what you even wanted at that stage of your life, if you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

You know, thinking back, I don't think that I really went in with expectations. I never really questioned where I was. It was like you just, you just did. And I think that is something that I'm learning actually from you is to step back and and ask questions about the direction of anything and choices that you make. And I've never learned how to do that, you know, at at that age. Maybe it's, you know, that generation of just following the rules and and not that you don't follow the rules, but you know, in that in that you just, you know, went along with what was expected from you without questioning anything. And I think I didn't know what I was getting into. It was like you just, that was the next step that you had to do. So you there wasn't a question of like why now?

SPEAKER_01 4:15

I it's nine-in-day difference from what the decisions I have to make, which is like more around like calling you in the middle of the grocery store being like, do I order or do I get this type of quinoa or this type of quinoa?

SPEAKER_00 4:30

I know. And and to be, you know, even as a mom, I couldn't imagine you like pregnant, married. No, that's weird.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Don't say that.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Right. I mean, it's so I I think it's it also goes to, you know, the expectations of my parents and what they expected and everything that they went through, you know, that kind of went onto my shoulders. And then with you, I I don't expect that right now. So it's not even in the in the radar. Although we do have a lot of friends that are getting married. So I I was in my feels a couple of months ago. I was just starting to I I do see that it is coming sooner than than later, probably within the next decade, I would think. So that that's like a whole different conversation. But really today I I wanted to talk about, you know, the dualities of what we're going through. I'm I'm in a in a stage where I am, you know, 53 in midlife and and you're 24 and you know, starting womanhood or adulthood. And but we find a lot of things that are common that we are kind of questioning and struggling with. And so I'd love to kind of go in deeper there.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Yeah, I think this stage of my life, I am trying to still rewind and understand where are these certain expectations I have on myself coming from and understand how I can live a life that feels authentic to me and not trying to portray some sort of perception or portrait that isn't me. And I think that with that comes a lot of questions around uncertainty and not knowing. I think a lot of other 20-somethings feel this way of not knowing what's in store and that just like clenching onto that anxiety. As you know, I struggle with that. But it's nice to know that I can have these conversations with my mom, who also, you know, you may feel the same way going through midlife and being becoming an empty nester, and we're asking ourselves similar questions just at different points in our life. Your kind of story around how you grew up, and it's still every time you say it, it doesn't become less shocking. The fact that you were pregnant and married at my age. Did you ever feel like you had to live a double life?

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Wow. It's a loaded question there.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

You can run into it.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Yeah. Well, I I think I wanted go back a little bit, like what you said about like, you know, with your generation and having the anxiety of not knowing what's coming next. And I think for good or bad, when I was growing up, because the expectations were already so concrete and laid out that you already kind of knew your next step, even though you didn't know how you were going to operate in that that next stage, but it was it was pretty, pretty much set, you know, this is what you do, then you do, you know, go here, then this and that. So it good or, you know, I and I think I've had this conversation with with other women as well, too. It's like I also had an arranged marriage. And it was like, was that easier or is it harder than now dating and finding that one? It was a different kind of anxiety, but the anxiety wasn't the unknown. You you went with it because there was some kind of you just trusted the process. So I think, you know, back to your question about like, you know, how I grew up and and so forth. So I am like the oldest in my family, only girls. So I am having that eldest daughter syndrome, taking on the responsibilities. And I think I had always the weight of making sure that I did the right thing and had my family's honor in everything that I did. So every decision I made was always subconsciously to make sure that I didn't do anything that brought dishonor to the family. And so, and disappointment. I think more than like honor, I think it's like that disappointment. You didn't ever want to disappoint your family. So I don't think I ever knew to question it. But at the same time, I I grew up in a family that did give me a lot of love and attention and the autonomy to be bold. But the the difference is that it was within a certain constraint. Like there were stricter rules and you know, boundaries that were very clear. So it wasn't like a gray boundary. It was very black and white boundary of what I can do and what I can't do. But the difference was that you can do the other things once you. So I think that is a subconscious story that I've learned is like once you get to whatever that is. There's an attached, yes. So it was like, you know, once you get married, then you can do this. Once you're done with school, then you can do this. So then I think that is almost like how I've learned to just be that I never gave myself time to, you know, step back, pause, celebrate. Because it was always that goalpost is always moving further because I never got to that place. And so I mean, like I can do this looking back now, but in the moment of it, I didn't know any better. Because all again, the thing uh, the story or my belief was I don't ever want to disappoint my family. And so everything that you that I did was to make sure that the expectations of my family were met, you know, whether it was good grades, you know, getting into, you know, finishing school. I was I'm one of the first to go to college in my family. So that was something that, you know, I wanted to make them proud of. And then getting married and starting the business and being successful at that, I think all of the drive comes from like making sure that I don't bring that disappointment of failure or or not doing it right.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Yeah. I can't imagine the burden and pressure that you put on yourself to carry this honor. Do you feel like you it made understanding what you truly wanted hard?

SPEAKER_00 11:39

I don't think that ever that question ever came up, to be honest, because I never was in the equation in in any of these conversations. Yeah. I mean, I didn't even plan my own wedding.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

That's crazy. I just can't imagine that. Like we send each other reels of like, did you see this? Did you see that?

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Like, it's just I I mean, it I like now I I I haven't even really talked, thought about it, but if I really think, you know, I'm like, I really was like naive in in a way. I wasn't forced to do anything, you know, first of all. It's it's like my my family gave me choices and autonomy. But like I said, it was the expectation was there. You know, it's hard like when you're at that age and you're doing things and you think you you are doing things to be independent and do your way. But now when I look back and see all of the patterns that I've you know had over the years, it always had that that same story of making sure I don't disappoint somebody.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

How do you think that that has influenced your parenting style on me?

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Well, well, I think, you know, for generally, you know, you know, both you and your brother, I think it's I've always worked. And so working long hours, you feel like you're missing out, and there's always the mom guilt. And I think that there's a level of overcompensation to make up for the time that I'm not there. So I think certain things were always to try to overcompensate, whether it's per, you know, getting you things or making sure, you know, the time that we are doing something, it's like much more extravagant to make up for the the day-to-day. But I think also, you know, there were certain scenarios that I went through. I kind of wanted to make sure you didn't ever have to to do that as well. So I don't think that we ever sat down and and said, like, there's you can't do this, or you you can, you know, this is what you have to do or something. I think I've always tried to make sure the opportunities that you wanted are are available to you.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Yeah. I agree with that. I think I honestly learned a lot more than from what you ever said to us growing up. I learned a lot more through observing you and just remembering growing up, seeing you get up at like 7 a.m., go to work, come home at like 8 p.m. And I just was like, that's what I'm supposed to do. Like you were like a superwoman to me. And I just wanted to be you. I wanted to be someone who could do it all from coming home, making food for the family, to like going to work, being really successful at work, to making sure everyone feels loved. And now as I grow older, I understand that it doesn't look as shiny as you know it once did as a kid because you were probably really burnt out too.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

Yeah, I I mean that's a lot to unpack right there. But, you know, I I think hearing, you know, you say that, and I know we've had conversations with you and your brother about like how you know the worth ethic has kind of shaped how both of you are driven to do the things that you're both doing. And it it definitely does take the guilt away because you know, you always think, well, I missed, you know, that award ceremony, or I or I forgot snack, or I, you know, all of the, you know, so many different stories. I was that mom. But having these con that's why having these conversations now are so important. And and if I was to compare myself to you, like, you know, growing up, and I was looking at my mom, I didn't want to be my mom. You know, my mom was traditional Indian mom. My my dad is that typical alpha male Punjabi man. And from what I saw and assumed was, you know, she was subservient. You know, my dad was in control, and he's the one that made the decisions and, you know, and she went along with it. That is that was my perception at the time. And I didn't want to be that way. I wanted to have my own career. I I didn't want to be in the kitchen, you know. That was something, you know, although I love to cook, but it was like, well, why do I have to be the one to cook? Yeah. And so that was always something I think that was a battle, unnecessarily looking back at it now. But I went really far away from what she was now, you know, after my dad's passed, and and I see my mom so independent. She's so independent. Right? And and everything that she does, and I was like, I had it all wrong. Yeah. She was always in control.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

She just, it was like a soft power. You know, and I think that's also made me like realize that you don't have to be a certain way to like the need for control, or or that control or power looks a certain way in in the dynamics of a relationship. So, you know, everything that she's ever wanted, my dad really did. Yeah. But in aesthetics, it looked like he was the one that was in control of a conversation. Yeah. And so that whole dynamic really shaped all of the the things that I did later, you know, in my life, because I was like, there's no way I'm gonna do this. And now I look back and I'm like, it really wasn't that. But we never had, I didn't have conversations with my mom about anything. So how would I know what was really happening between their relationship? And I think that is, again, the reason why we want to have these conversations, because, like you said, it's not what we say, it's what we do that creates the impression on our kids as they're younger and as they're growing. And I really think that the stage that you're in now is so much more important. You know, you're making life decisions. And if I'm not in a good space to be available or have the bandwidth to, you know, have these conversations with you, it would be a disservice and we would continue this cycle of you assuming certain things.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

And, you know, kind of taking it in and then taking it into your relationships or or whatever you're gonna do next. And so I think these conversations are important, not just like just between you and me, but also the relationship I have with my mom and and how that has grown and changed and how it's impacted how I am. I mean, we were talking about, you know, even as we were getting ready for this podcast, you know, having a surge of anxiety about what to wear and which is so unnecessary, but that's never gonna change.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Like we that's just who we are. Yeah. I okay, my conclusion is that Nanima needs to be the next guest in the podcast. Yeah, then yeah. I truly have a special bond with Nanny Ma because well, I don't speak Punjabi. I probably should. But when she was staying with us over COVID and we all were watching Gilmore Girls, I don't know why that was the show that got everyone hooked, but yeah, you know, it was just fun to have her around and be in her presence. And you really do pick up on how in I don't like she still works to this day. Right, she won't stop working. She won't stop working from June to in the summer, June to September. Yeah, she works. And it's such it's like I come from this long lineage of strong women. And not to mention when we went to India, it was the three of us who went to India, and you were in the middle of both of us on the airplane, and both of us were nagging each other and it were nagging you.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Nagging me, I think.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

What do you mean? Nagging each other. I was the one dealing with both of you, and it was just so satisfying to see her just nag at you the way you nag at me. I know.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

I it doesn't change. Yeah, I I think you know, again, it when families live further away and uh apart from you know growing up with grandparents close by, I think we we have lost some of that because you don't see the dynamics of, you know, in in my mom's eyes, I'm gonna still be that little girl, even though I'm 53. In the same way I see you. Yeah, you know, as you're growing and and making your own choices and and doing your own things, but uh you're always gonna be my covey, you know? And I and I think we forget that as we get into different stages and so forth. But I think, you know, with my mom, she didn't get, she didn't have a choice to go to school. I think it's about fifth grade that she had was able to go to. And then, you know, she had responsibilities at home where she had, you know, take care of her siblings and and help around the house and and all of that. So she didn't even have the opportunity to have that education. And then, you know, when I was in school, my dad had different viewpoints. Points of like a timeline of what I should do and when I should do it. But she was very adamant about me going to school. She showed me what she did, you know, how she worked hard. And I actually went and worked with her one time when I was, I think, 14. Wait, really?

SPEAKER_01 22:16

I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Yeah. So I was, I was about 14. And she was like, okay, look, this is this is what you're gonna be doing if you don't go to school. You know, and and that's always been in the back of my mind of like, you know, she didn't have that opportunity to go to school. And so to have gone, not only my, you know, an undergrad to go in and then get a doctorate, it's it feels good.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

And I don't think I've ever stepped back to like really celebrate or appreciate that. That because it's an opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

You know, if I think just like, you know, just two generations, your nanny mom didn't have that opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

They did what they did to come here so that I had this opportunity. And then for you now to have this opportunity, being in healthcare, we don't talk enough about how all of that trauma that is passed from one generation to the next to the next. And when we talk about the anxiety, it's it's there, you know, and we don't know any better because we've model, we've been, we've seen and model the behaviors of those around us.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

And so I think, you know, with her coping is like she's in the kitchen because she knows she can control that. And that's what I've noticed.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

It's her way of being in service.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

It's it's her way of showing her love because in comparison to my dad and her, she's not the affectionate one. You know, if you've noticed, you know, she she will, but she's not as like, you know, with my dad, he'll come and give you a hug and you get a big kiss. My mom would be like, she gives you a side hug, but she doesn't give you like a hug hug, you know, face-to-face hug. But her love is through her food. And so everything, like even when she comes over, she doesn't need to, but it's like, okay, take over the kitchen, mom, do whatever you want, because that's her way of, you know, expressing the love that she has. That was something else that I learned is that, you know, the cooking isn't a chore. It's a way to also express your love. And so I reframed that. And I think that also shifted what I thought about like my role again, you know, in making sure that, you know, when my kids come home that their favorite food is there because it is comfort food.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

You know, to bring them back home and how important that is and what that means to me. And then, you know, I want to make sure that that's there. Those traditions that we have are our traditions that we're then carrying forward as well, too.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

So, you know, I've I've kind of shared about, you know, my relationship with my mom. I'm curious to know. And you don't, you know, no filter here. How has my parenting impacted you? I mean, would you consider me a gentle parent or a tiger mom?

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Okay. I don't think you're definitely not a gentle parent, but you are not a tiger mom in the sense that you never were helicopter you were not a helicopter parent. And I appreciated that, and I think I am a really independent person. And I learned independence through I really think you and just knowing what I needed to do. And I knew that there were expectations of me, but there wasn't anyone force feeding me a path. And honestly, I found that sometimes that was a bit daunting. But in moments where I needed it, you definitely do bring me back to reality, whether I like it or not. There's definitely some old school tough love there that I probably need because I will run with ideas. What's great is like, especially when we're having conversations around your the expectations of you at 24 and how there were certain marks you had to hit. You guys didn't have that for me. It was really, Covey, do what you want to do and do it well. And I think that the uncertainty and the the freedom, in a way, because I don't know anything else, that was a form of anxiety for me that you constantly had to bring back, bring me back down to earth. And I there was a specific moment that I am thinking about where over the summer you really did do that. I don't, I feel like sharing it. I don't know, should I?

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Well, let's just go.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

Just so that people can get a taste of your insanity.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Okay. I did decide to have my daughter on.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

So you know, but I I'm not gonna lie, like I did need it. I needed this little moment. And I think that it was in a moment where I was just kept on being like, oh my goodness, everything in life is going wrong, nothing's going my way. And this is what you wrote to me. It was a long text message. Okay, real talk. First of all, stop feeling sorry for yourself. You have full amenities to make your life easy, and you have access to tutors, mentors, a privilege. Reality, you underestimated how hard it would be. You know you are capable. You need to pick up where you left off and move forward. You want independence and you want a life on your own terms, then you have to figure it out. So I need you to stop playing victim. You've had setbacks, you've come back and figured out and figured it out. So stop asking others and know within yourself what's the plan and act on it. Honestly, not bad advice. Not bad advice looking at in hindsight, but it's it is like it's the push that I needed for sure. And it wasn't like it was, oh my goodness, like, why is my mom being mean to me? It was more like my mom believes in me and is trying to get me to see to believe in myself.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

As a parent, especially navigating this age in comparison to like my parents, I think they operated under a fear of their kids losing connection to their culture, you know, or just losing their kids because they didn't, they didn't understand the unknown outside of the four walls that they created. You know, they they may have trusted the kids, but they didn't trust what was outside. And I think, you know, the flip side is like letting your kids go out in the world completely, trusting that everything will fall into place without, like you said, the boundaries. Because then you're like, okay, I don't want to be like where there's so much restriction and I want to give our you know my kids the opportunity to learn. But then there's this duality of like having too many choices.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

Right. Because it's like you can do what you want. And but then time is also relevant. And I think that's where I am probably more conservative and traditional. Traditional. Traditional in the sense that like there are it's good to have a timeline of certain things to be mindful of of you know what stage you're at and and so forth, instead of it being like, well, I'll get married whenever I want to, or I'll do this at a certain age. Not that there has to be a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Yeah, I was just gonna ask, when is the right time to get married? Gosh, you're really gonna put me on the spot. Just I'm just rage-bating you now.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

It's okay. Yeah, she okay. Personally, I think, okay, like if I was to talk generally, I think 30. I I agree. I think that gives you I mean, for me, I I would prefer a little bit. Okay, okay. You know, if I'm gonna be honest, I I would say before 30, but I'm gonna Yeah. But I think it's a good time, you know, you maybe in, you know, into your career a little bit, you you know, then gives you time to to meet somebody.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

But I mean it's not just like meet somebody, it's it goes to everything we were discussing in this conversation around you want to know yourself before you enter into a chapter of living with someone else, potentially having a family with someone else. And there's certain life steps that you personally have to take. Like, for example, is there anything you wish you did before you got married? Like anything, you know, you got married so young.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

I, you know, yes. I I and and my 75-year-old mom now asked me, why did you not travel before you got married? Mom, where were you? I think I, you know, I got married when I was still finishing pharmacy school. So I didn't even, again, I didn't celebrate one ending to a new beginning. Everything just meshed into one. So I became a, you know, doctorate of pharmacy, became a pharmacist, got married, had a kid, started a business, had another kid, you know, it was boom, boom, boom. There was never a time for me to celebrate. So everything became just work, family work, and so forth. And and I think if I was to go back is really to understand what is it that I like to do? Because in that whole interim, you I've never learned that. Like, you know, if somebody was to ask me, what do you do for fun or what do you want to do? I never gave myself permission to think like that. Like, you know, like I know you like doing vision boards, but it took me a long time to even stop and think. Like, what am I gonna do next year? Like, I don't know what I'm gonna do next week, let alone what am I gonna do next year.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Honestly, I feel the same way still, where especially at my age, there are so many people who are taking up random hobbies and you feel like you need to find your thing that isn't just related to your career or school. And it's this constant pressure of how do I have fun? Which is something that shouldn't have pressure to it. But we put so much emphasis because it's honestly been neglected.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

Do you think also it's because you've seen me not really relax?

SPEAKER_02 33:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

Right? I don't even, you know, if I do have a day off, it's there's something. I don't think I've I mean, I do have fun, I guess. You do.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

You know how to close.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

Yeah. But what I mean overall, I have to do a lot of things before I get to have that moment. And it's a moment. And I think it needs to be where you're infusing fun on a regular basis. It's not like just when you go on vacation or just when you are at a party or an event, or or I'm back home, you know, at my parents' or my brother's. I think there's there's a difference. I think like you switch on and off. And I think that is something with everything that I've you know been through is like there's a a switch of a person that's on the outside and the person that's on the inside. And now that I'm in midlife, I'm trying to bring the two together because I think again, growing up in a traditional family, there was a duality of what was expected when you're at home, certain things you're doing, and then what you, you know, the version of you that are that you're out in the world doing. And the same way when even after I got married, there's a version of me that's Dr. Rye, the pharmacist, running a business. And then then you step into, as soon as you step into the house, uh, you switch into a different person.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

So what is a fun day for you now?

SPEAKER_00 35:03

I think, I mean, I love learning now. Before it was like always about clinical and so forth. So I I think, you know, listening to different podcasts and walking and being outside and meeting people.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Okay, but isn't it also kind of fun to just like lounge around and sit like have a dilly dally day? Like most of my days, most of my days are dilly dally. So I my favorite days are dilly dally days. And I think that you would admit the same.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

No, I do. I I think, well, and that's what I'm saying. I think it's like I really don't have a routine like as I did before. It's taken me a long time to to do that. So even though, you know, in the pharmacies, I've had people working, I've always felt that I needed to be there. And I think this was the first year, this whole year of shedding, as we know it as, I could really say that I have stepped away where my nervous system is also calm enough where I don't, it doesn't like I don't flinch anymore. Yeah. And I don't know if you've noticed that.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

Yes, I have. And I will say it is actually something that I feel like I'm also realizing too. I don't know what it is, but it's like realizing for myself where okay, there could be something that three years ago this would have sent me over. And now I'm able to actually just remove myself from the situation. And seeing you be able to do that too has made our relationship stronger because it's never this tit for tat moment. And we're able to actually just enjoy the parts of ourselves in the present instead of always having to worry. We're very future forward thinkers, but being able to take a grasp of our own nervous system realize, okay, like we're safe in the present.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

I think that that's just it right there. I don't think I ever felt safe, even though I had everything that I could want or should want, according to the success checklist that was out there. I think I never gave myself permission to step back to even be in the moment. Because, like you said, it was always like, okay, the goalpost is moving. And it wasn't somebody else moving it, it was me. And that's something that I think as women, we really have to question ourselves. It's very easy to point out that it's something externally that's creating this. But we tend to be the ones that are doing it. And I think that I realize that I do have control over resetting.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

And that has given me the capacity to be present, which then trickles to, you know, everyone around me, especially you, that I I can, I don't have to have that knee-jerk reaction if I get a phone call from you and something's happening, where then I'm adding to the anxiety versus I can step back, let you go through your feels and emotions and and and whatnot, hear you, you know, and and allow you to be seen and heard. So then I can say something. Whereas probably before I would interject and tell you, like, okay, this, this, that.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

Like the text message.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

Well, well, that was, you know, that was recent too. But I think that was like, okay, do I be a friend or do I need to be a mom? So sometimes No, that's a good, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Yeah, that was you needed to be a mom in that moment. And okay, I actually think that everything you just said really goes back to why it is important to ask yourself what you like to do for fun. Because if I think back, what were the moments that actually let me dig my heels into where I was? It was finding an actual gratitude or appreciation for the daily routines and lifestyle that I've built. And a lot of that kind of like the work is always gonna be there. And honestly, being in law school, the days are so long. You would think that, and I have a lot of peers who look at it in the inverse and think, oh my goodness, like this is the worst experience ever. But if you don't have those moments of pausing or those moments of fun, then you really are just, you know, you're gonna get lost in the sauce.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

No, I agree. And then next thing you know, you're 53 years old and you're wondering where life went. And what do you do for fun?

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Well, we had a fun day yesterday. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

Well, I think what I've learned is that you do need to have, you know, you have a routine so that you're doing the things that you need to to, I would say more of like rituals, right? That it's it's not, I don't want it, I don't like using the word routine because I don't want it to be systematic. And for me, somebody that's been on autopilot and just always pushing through things, there's certain words that I'm trying not to use. And I think that you there should be spaces that you're creating for yourself. And if, you know, that happens to be that you go for a walk or you have time alone or you're even, you know, journaling. What's your routine? My ritual. I like waking up early in the morning time where no one's up. There's silence. So that way I can actually hear my thoughts and just allow whatever is coming up to be heard. And then I do like stepping outside for a bit. You know, usually I do have time to go for a walk. And so just being outside, I'm getting exposure to the sun, which is a natural way to reset your hormones. That's just an extra perk. Then I, you know, try to come back and I am intentionally cooking, you know, whether it's breakfast or lunch or something. So then I'm in the right frame of mind where it's not a chore to do. It's something I wanted to do. And so then I feel good that I've, you know, I'm nurturing myself and nurturing my family as well, too. And that's kind of like the the morning before I head off to work or have calls or something. So those three things really set my day. You said, like, what do you do for fun? But I think the three questions really would be is do you like yourself? Do you like what you do? Do you like how you do it? And it's actually a quote from Maya Angelo.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Oh, I like that. I think that there are a lot of moments where I forget that I like myself and I'm mean to myself. And especially coming back home and having a little bit more time for myself, I realize I love my company. Like I like one of my goals for next year is to solo travel because I think that would just be a fun experience for myself. And I think that the routines that I've built when oftentimes I struggle with the positive affirmations and just I can get really negative on myself. I when I let like my body do the work, whether it's knowing to go to the gym every day or knowing that I need to go to the grocery store and make healthy food, that speaks more than sometimes the, you know, looking myself in the mirror and saying, oh my goodness, like you're worth it. Like obviously I know that, but in the moment, that's not gonna feel right. I I think I build trust with myself through those daily acts more than the affirmations.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

And and it's okay. There is no one way of building trust. I think that's the key, is that keeping to your commitment. So routine, ritual, whatever you want to call it, it's the act of keeping the promise. And so once you start keeping the promise, then you are building that trust with yourself. Your body is going to start trusting you that, oh, she. Says what she means. She didn't like like ditch us again, right? Yeah. And it's a muscle. It's not something that you've you've gotten there. You have to continue to main maintain that. And that's what I think I've found for myself. The trust is there because now I am keeping promises to myself. If I said I'm going to go meet somebody and take the day off, I don't back out. I used to do that quite often. Like, oh my gosh, there's so much work. I can't. I let me reschedule. Like, how can I walk away from the pharmacy when I there's all this chaos happening or whatever? There's always something happening.

SPEAKER_02 44:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

But that moment, you don't get back. Yeah. And so every time you do that, it's like a microaggression, a no here, a yes to something that you didn't really want to say yes to, a no to something that you didn't really want to say no to, right? It's just the same.

SPEAKER_02 44:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

And so learning, again, to like yourself so that you do know what are the things that you want to do, right? What are your non-negotiables? And maybe this will have to be another episode, but those non-negotiables are going to be really important when you're thinking about who your life partner is going to be. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 45:15

Cliffhanger. Cliffhanger, yes.

SPEAKER_00 45:19

Is there anything else you want to ask me while you have the mic? It's going to be the who's your favorite child?

unknown 45:27

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 45:28

Rocky.

unknown 45:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

That's a no-brainer.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

Whatever. No, but this was honestly a great conversation. And I really, it's nice to just have like a partner in crime that's also my mom, who cares about and is passionate about women's health as much as I am. We are able to take a step back and actually understand where we can support each other because of similar feelings that we may be feeling, whether it's feeling really anxious, feeling really lost, or actually starting to feel like we can regulate our own nervous system. I think that we forget or get so siloed in our own age groups or amongst our to have these conversations with our friends because we think that our parents won't understand or other relatives won't understand. And in honesty, that may be the case, but in I feel like I've given you the benefit of the doubt. And it has shown us that like we can have these conversations and they there's so much room for more as well.

SPEAKER_00 46:38

Thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt. Oh, yeah. That's not what I meant, but whatever. No, I I know what you mean. I think it is also it's not automatic. It takes work in any relationship. And I think that is what I think why I do the work that I do, that even at this age and stage, you can change the conversation. And these conversations are so important, but first you have to have them with yourself. So women that are in, you know, midlife need to really take a pause and reflect on what they're doing, how they're doing it, and do they really like themselves? Because then they can start changing certain things, taking things off of their plate that doesn't need to be there. So then there is space to have these kinds of conversations with their own kids and other people they're mentoring. And it's important to do that. It's it's like where you start the ripple from. And so I don't think there is really any age that is too soon or too late to have these conversations. It's to have the conversations. I agree. Yeah. So I guess, you know, we're more same-same than not.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

I guess so.

SPEAKER_00 47:58

Well, thank you so much. And I know we'll be seeing you again soon. Thank you. So, whether you're in your 20s or your 50s, most of us are still learning how to listen to ourselves without guilt, without rushing, without waiting for permission. It could be different decades, but the same invitation. Pause and listen. See you next time.