Out in the Field: Inclusion in Wildlife Conservation

What started as an op-ed in The Wildlife Professional has turned into a society-wide, member-led initiative to illuminating and elevating (LGBTQIA+) wildlifers.  

In this episode of “Our Wild Lives,” co-organizers of Out in the Field (OiTF), Silas Fischer and Adam Janke, join hosts Katie Perkins and Ed Arnett to discuss how OiTF is helping to make the wildlife profession more open, visible, and inclusive. 

Fischer and Janke recount their personal experiences as wildlife professionals, unpack the mission behind this TWS member-led effort, and explore how allies can meaningfully support the work of OiTF. 

Learn more: 

Out in The Field - https://wildlife.org/out-in-the-field/

Join Out In The Field's newsletter

Original article starting the initiative, I am one of you

More about their socials and work in this article

Join OiTF Discord

Follow OiTF on Instagram

Become a member of The Wildlife Society: https://wildlife.org/join/

Support Wildlife, Invest in Wildlife Professionals: https://wildlife.org/donate/

Follow us on

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewildlifesociety/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewildlifesociety

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-wildlife-society/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@The_Wildlife_Society

Transcript

[00:00:00] Katie Perkins:Today we're talking about community, what it means, why it matters, and how showing up as your full self can actually make wildlife conservation stronger. 

We're joined by Adam Janke and Silas Fischer co-organizers from Out In The Field, a member driven TWS community, creating space for LGBTQ+ wildlife professionals to feel seen, supported, and celebrated.

This episode is a reminder that you don't have to leave any part of yourself at the door to do great science and all are welcome at The Wildlife Society. 

Welcome to the Our Wild Lives Podcast, brought to you by The Wildlife Society. 

[00:00:50] Ed Arnett: Hey everybody. Welcome to the Our Wild Lives Podcast, and I'm here with my Cohost, Katie Perkins. Katie, I love the fact that we can elevate the voices of our members. And it's one of the most exciting things, and that's what we're trying to get to, not just to our members, but to the public.

So we've got a couple of special guests with us here today, don't we? 

[00:01:09] Katie Perkins: Yeah. So one cool thing about The Wildlife Society is that we have these things we call our communities and they're member, driven initiatives to create spaces where people feel at home and have a space where they feel seen in The Wildlife Society.

And so today we have Silas and Adam with us from the Out In the Field community. So Adam, why don't you just introduce yourself and a little bit about your background. 

[00:01:28] Adam Janke: Yeah, yeah. Thanks for having us. I'm excited to be on the new podcast. Excited to be a listener as well. So my name's Adam Janke.

I'm an associate professor at Iowa State University. I'm also the State Wildlife Extension Specialist, and I'm also one of the organizers of the Out In the Field initiative. 

[00:01:43] Silas Fischer: Yeah, I'm excited to be here too. Uh, my name is Silas Fisher. I use they, them pronouns. I'm a PhD candidate at the University of Toledo in Ohio, studying desert songbird responses to climate change. And I'm also one of the Out In the Field co-organizers. 

[00:01:58] Katie Perkins: Cool. So can you just give us the background Out In the Field, like how did it get started, how long has it been around, and what do y'all really aim to do? 

[00:02:05] Silas Fischer: Sure. So we kind of started in 2019, sort of at the Reno conference.

A lot of it was because of, um, Travis Booms wrote an article in The Wildlife Professional basically saying, I am one of you. I'm a gay wildlife biologist. We're here and we exist. I think a couple people had, emailed Travis to say your article really impacted me. Um, and kind of just got the ball rolling then, and they had a luncheon at the 2019 conference in Reno and we've just been building momentum ever since then basically. 

[00:02:36] Adam Janke: Yeah, so we're a member driven organization. We always try to center that. We're all wildlife biologists in our own right, and we happen to also all identify with the LGBTQ plus community, but yeah, the sentiment of Travis's article was to say.

Like Silas said, it was, I am one of you. And, Travis shared some experiences that he'd had like in remote field camps or on a plane in the Alaskan wilderness, uh, feeling other than one of you as a wildlife biologist. And so, and Travis is telling it a story and it's his of course to tell, but we know it well 'cause kind of the origin story of the initiative.

Is that he was literally sitting in his cabin, a dry cabin outside of Fairbanks, Alaska alone, one night, dark night in Alaska, and just felt motivated to write this. He'd been, uh, really successful in his career as a professional wildlife biologist and on a journey like most of us embracing his gay identity.

And, um, he, yeah, he wrote this article, said, I am one of you. And one of the ways that he made that point is that he included a picture of the cover of the first ever issue of The Wildlife Professional, which he was on, uh, which is

[00:03:42] Katie Perkins: Oh wow, I didn't know that

[00:03:43] Ed Arnett: I remember that. 

[00:03:44] Adam Janke: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's just like really cool origin story that totally makes the point, right? Is like Travis was on that cover because it was something about like arctic ecosystems changing and, and climate change or something like that. And Travis is a really well respected arctic biologist. And, and so it made this like really cool point about the like centrality of queer people and queer experiences to the wildlife profession.

Just because like, we are one of you or we are in The Wildlife Society. And then it's all bubbled up from the grassroots Since then, Colleen Bule, Katie O'Donnell, Travis, and some others were sort of the, the initial forming or the initial formation launched this big event, in Reno and then.

We've grown our organizer pool, we've engaged people at the conference. We've engaged people online. We've written additional articles for The Wildlife Professional. Our members have been, um, you know, involved in book projects and other things. We help smaller regional conferences promote LGBTQ inclusion and, yeah, it's been really fun and cool to watch it grow.

[00:04:48] Ed Arnett: I think you said something that everyone should really hear loud and clear is that Travis is a highly respected arctic wildlife biologist. Yeah. And a, and a raptor biologist. Yeah. I was riding a plane one day from, I was coming back from overseas, I believe, and I'm watching TV and thumbing through documentaries and all of a sudden Travis is in my face catching Gyrfalcons. Yeah, that was really cool. Yep. But you mentioned this too. We are all wildlife biologist. Can you dig in just a little deeper into your background, not just what your current position is, but how did you get into being a wildlife biologist to begin with?

[00:05:24] Adam Janke: Yeah. Well for me personally, I was obsessed with ducks. Like many kids that grow up duck hunting, are, and so I always say I knew I wanted to be a wildlife biologist for as long as I knew I could be a wildlife biologist, which was like a very specific moment when I was a kid. And I read the title waterfowl biologist in a Ducks Unlimited magazine.

So I was like, oh, you can be a duck biologist, have no more questions. 

[00:05:48] Ed Arnett: Wow. This is the thing. 

[00:05:49] Adam Janke: Yeah. I know a lot of people have much more circuitous routes to the profession, but mine was not, mine was like, that's what I want to linear do. Yeah. And so, so yeah, so I went to Purdue to study wildlife.

Was president of the student chapter of The Wildlife Society at Purdue. went to grad school. Um, I specialized in the intersections between wildlife and agriculture, and so I've studied wildlife on farms all across the corn belt and then that's what I do still today. I always say I study where birds live on farms and help farmers, help birds.

Like that's the goal of my work. And so the vast majority of the time that I'm engaging with The Wildlife Society, I'm the president-elect of the Iowa Chapter. I'm on the editorial advisory board for The Wildlife Professional. I come to the conferences the vast majority of time, I'm a regular old wildlife biologist.

But sometimes, sometimes I put this other part of my identity that I hold really close to me. Uh, I put that on and say, I am a gay wildlife biologist, and that's what Out In the Field allows. Um, and The Wildlife Society is amazing. Like the members of The Wildlife Society are amazingly inclusive and accepting.

And it just kind of makes one feel even more whole. Yeah. Uh, at when you're at work and that's a real blessing. Like something really to be thankful for. 

[00:07:02] Ed Arnett: Well, it's really important for our goals of building community and supporting our professionals. it doesn't matter who you are, where you're from. What religion you might be a, it doesn't matter, right? You are a wildlife professional or you want to be a wildlife professional, and you're welcome here. Yeah. So, Silas, tell us a little bit about your background. Why'd you wanna be a wildlifer? 

[00:07:22] Silas Fischer: Sure. So I grew up with it a little bit. my dad was a, up until really a couple days ago, was a, a wildlife biologist for DOD, Department of Defense studying birds and so.

I grew up with it, but I also was also really interested in art for a long time. Um, so when I went to college, I double majored in art and biology at Ball State. And so I was like, how do I combine these things? I'm really interested in doing both. At first I thought I was just gonna be, you know, like a scientific illustrator or something, but I, I guess come to find that I can do a lot more than that and kind of push, you know, including science and art and kind of bridging that gap together. Because we as biologists or scientists, we're not always the best at communicating what we do or communicating our science. And so I think for me, that's a way to kind of bridge the gap between, us and the public or other disciplines.

But, yeah, in terms of what I do now, I'm a PhD candidate at the University of Toledo in Ohio. I don't do my field work in Ohio. I'm, I work in the desert Southwest, studying dry land songbirds. how they're responding to climate change. 

Yeah, it's been, it's been really fun. Um, yeah, I, I got involved with TWS when I was an undergraduate and I've been coming to the conferences since I think 2018. I remember attending the 2019 conference and that was when they held the first out in the field event. they had the luncheon. And I remember Colleen saying that, you know, they didn't know how many people to expect. They thought, oh, maybe we'll have 30 or 40 people. And it ended up being like 150 people showed up. They had to bring out more tables and chairs and meals.

And I think like, that's just so cool how we've grown since then. And there's such a need for, for Out In the Field in TWS. And I think like the big thing is that in our field especially, we feel like we, we spend a lot of time out with our coworkers, you know, in long field days, or traveling, traveling to the field.

Um, and so I think we feel a lot of times, like we can't bring our full selves to our job as wildlife biologists because, you know, there's always a fear of like, will I be judged? And so I think that's like one of the main needs of. why we need out in the field is to just make sure everyone feels like they can bring their full selves to work and to TWS 

[00:09:35] Katie Perkins: Yeah. You guys have so much fun at your events, like they're always the place to be at conference. From the leadership perspective, what are you guys doing as the organizers to really create this you know, super fun and exciting and inclusive place for, for more of our members. 

[00:09:50] Adam Janke: Well, I don't know. I just think queer people like to have fun as a general rule. Like, we don't, we don't really, there's not a lot. 

[00:09:56] Ed Arnett: I've never seen people have so much fun at the events. They're amazing. Yeah. Everybody's happy.

[00:10:01] Adam Janke: Yeah. There's something to be said. I mean, we, we talk about that within the community of like queer joy, right? Mm-hmm. Like, which is to say like a lot of us go through like some dark times or whatever to kind of arrive at a at being out, not everybody, certainly, and, and fortunately the trend is towards fewer and fewer people kind of going through those darker times, but like a lot of us have or sometimes they're still in the midst of those kind of like hard journeys of, of embracing oneself and confronting the challenge of shame or whatever that, society or experience projects on us. And so, so then like the opposite side of that is what we call queer joy. which really is something.

And so I think that's just what you sense. It's like, I don't know, we just like to have fun when, when people get together and there is something to be said when you're in a space that is welcoming and inclusive and feels safe, uh, where you can really be yourself, that people like to have a good time.

[00:10:52] Katie Perkins: We obviously see a lot of the things that you do in person at the conference, but your community extends the entire year and you have a lot of other stuff. So what are you guys doing throughout the year that, you know, people listening may wanna get involved in?

[00:11:04] Silas Fischer: Sure. one of the main things is we know that not everyone can attend the conference, right? So we try to hold, online socials throughout the year on Zoom, just general online socials. And then we try to do these. These, uh, special socials, I guess called intersectional socials, where we're, you know, specific identity groups can have a, a space, that they can connect with people.

So, we do the online socials. we have social media, so we try to engage folks there. We've been trying to provide travel grants the past couple conferences, just so that folks have support and be able to attend the conferences, but. Yeah, we try to make sure we're engaging with folks that can't always attend the conferences for sure. 

[00:11:42] Adam Janke: In the sales pitch side of that is join our newsletter, which is to find us on the TWS website, and there's a link on there where you can sign up to receive information about the initiative.

And like Silas mentioned, the biggest thing that we do outside of the conference is these virtual socials, uh, that are pretty fun. We have an into the field, out in the field, into the field, social, around early time, early in the spring. We like to kind of like get people together before we go off and, and most people are doing field work and uh, so we do that in the spring.

We often have a new year social as well. we often try to have one in the fall as well, and then like Silas mentioned, we do this intersectional thing. So, you know, lgbtq plus two-spirit is like very expansive, right?

Like there's lots of, uh, identities within that and we want to recognize and in fact that that bubbled up from like the membership. Mm-hmm. when we started the initiative, people were like, yeah, it's fun to get together with LGBTQ plus people generally, but I really want to talk to like other trans and non-binary people, or I really want to talk to queer people of color, or I really want to talk to, um, we've talked about, we've never done this, but we've talked about like parents of queer kids.

Mm-hmm. Like you may, be cis and straight, but you may, be learning about and confronting the LGBTQ community in a different way that also is part of the way you come to work. And so we like, what we're trying to do within the initiative is just to cArve out all this space, uh, for people to find, to find that community.

We all share this passion and love for wildlife conservation. And so we all have that in common. And then let's get together over other things that we share in common and just kind of feel more ourselves. Mm-hmm. 

[00:13:20] Katie Perkins: If someone's listening to this and you know, they're working in the wildlife space and they've maybe got coworkers or people that they wanna know more about them and know more about these identities and what it all means.

Could you kind of walk us through all that? 

[00:13:30] Silas Fischer: Sure. well, we wrote, an article in The Wildlife Professional. When was that? A couple years ago that, yeah, it's also on our website. Okay. It was kind of just like a basic introduction to all the different identities in the community. And, you know, Adam and I can only speak for a small subset of those identities, right?

Mm-hmm. But, I think, yeah, the main thing is like, just do your research, you know, read up on it. Don't be afraid to ask questions within reason, right? Mm-hmm. Um, but I think a lot of it's just awareness, honestly. 

[00:14:01] Adam Janke: Yeah. That's something that we think about a lot and I think, one, I want to like reiterate, we've had just this like overwhelmingly positive experience. Mm-hmm. Like, um, at, at every conference and then within The Society as well. Like, it just seems like people are really affirming and accepting and all of that. So that's like the good news. the other part is like to the, you know, to people that are like, what's this all about?

Or why is it matter? You know, I was thinking about that. I was thinking about that coming into this podcast, this opportunity to visit with you guys about our initiative. Um. I was thinking like, let me talk to that person. You know what I mean? Like, I could, I could picture, I've like, my thumb is like hovered over a podcast episode.

I'm like, oh, I don't know if I wanna listen to that. Whatever. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like hot takes on, you know, politics or whatever the topic is. If you are that person, you're like, oh, Out In the Field, I don't know. I don't know about that. I don't know if I need to listen to this episode of the podcast or whatever.

And you gave us a shot and you've made it this long, like first thanks. Um, it is, it is hard to understand these identities. Right. And it's hard to understand why it matters and why it's so central to people's experience. But, um, the, the best way to understand 'em is just to like, talk to people. 

[00:15:09] Ed Arnett: Talk to people exactly. Like understand where they are. 

[00:15:12] Adam Janke: Yep. And the vast majority, and especially every one of the Out In the Field organizers like. We all one have thick skin, so it's like, yeah. Ask us questions. Mm-hmm. Sometimes I like, I wish someone would come up and ask me hard questions, you know, at this conference. I'm like, come on, what are you curious about?

Right. Like I mentioned earlier, like we've all done a lot of thinking about this stuff, right? Like that's, that is the universal experience of embodying a queer identity. 

[00:15:36] Ed Arnett: Long before you came out, probably, right? 

[00:15:38] Adam Janke: Right? And people that embody other dimensions of diversity obviously do the same thing, right? Mm-hmm. Like you think a lot about this stuff, every single person, religion, sexual orientation, ability, disability, neurodiversity, like all of these different dimensions, cultural, diversity, race, ethnicity, all that stuff. Um, people think a lot about it and queer people are obviously that way as well.

And so like, we've thought a lot about this stuff and like for the most part we're pretty comfortable and willing to talk about it. Mm-hmm. Talk about our experience with it, our evolving understanding of what it means to be a gay wildlife biologist, be a trans wildlife biologist. Mm-hmm. Be whatever. and so, yeah.

And, and you know, research shows us too, like acceptance is higher among people that have close friends or family that mm-hmm. Uh, embody one of these identities. And so, and that just like, that's like proof in the pudding, right? It's just like you just have to know somebody. Mm-hmm. So back to the person that whose thumb hovered over this episode in their podcast feed, like, yeah.

Thanks for taking the first step on that. Like just getting to know a queer wildlife biologist and, if you're at a national conference, we wear these like beautiful little colorful ribbons on our banners to try to signal, to take what is an invisible identity. Like you don't look at me. And say, I'm a gay wildlife biologist.

You don't look at Silas and say they're a trans wildlife biologist. We try to take what is an invisible identity and make it visible. Mm-hmm. With colorful name badges. Right. 

[00:17:01] Silas Fischer: Yeah. One other thing I wanted to add is that I think a lot of folks are like afraid to mess up or afraid to say the wrong thing.

[00:17:08] Ed Arnett: That's a great point. 

[00:17:09] Silas Fischer: And like we just have to be open to being wrong or being, being corrected and be humble. It's easier said than done, but I think, you know, we're gonna mess up sometimes and that's okay. As long as you have good intentions and you know, if you mess up quickly, apologize, move on. Right. I think that's like a big part of it too. 

[00:17:28] Ed Arnett: Well, people don't know what they don't know and if they haven't had that experience or exposure, but are willing to learn, they should be willing to ask the questions. 'cause I appreciate you guys, and, and the whole community of out in the field. Really, you know, being so open and willing to bring our members along that are willing to ask the questions.

Yeah. So, mm-hmm. Yeah. I heard there were some, uh, uh, interesting stories from we are at our annual conference Yeah. In Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. And, I heard a few stories. There was an artist that wasn't going to attend and then was when she went to our website and saw the Out In the Field webpage.

Just a, a participant walking around and said she felt at home. Mm-hmm. did you hear this? 

[00:18:11] Silas Fischer: Yeah. So one of our organizers, Colleen Olfenbuttle, I think, I don't know how she heard this, but yeah. One of the artists exhibitors, I think was, maybe they weren't, not, not that they weren't going to attend, but maybe they, they didn't know much about The Wildlife Society and they didn't know what we were about, and so.

I think they're just perusing the TWS website and somehow stumbled upon the, Out In the Field page and saw that and they thought, oh, okay, they're cool. I can go to this. I feel comfortable. Um, so I mean, I think that's, that's so cool. And we love hearing stories like that and you know, it kind of happens at every conference where especially students, will come up to us and just be like, this is amazing.

I never thought that this was part of TWS, or maybe some, some people that have been in the field a long time were like. I never thought this would happen in my lifetime, in my career in TWS. And so that's just been so cool to, to witness and be a part of. 

[00:19:04] Adam Janke: Yeah. We've had that at conferences, in the past. We have this booth at the conference we always pray it's the most colorful booth in the exhibitor hall. It has been. That is a fact. 3, 3, 4 years running. We're pretty proud of that. And, uh. You know, especially I sense like during the lulls and activity in there, sometimes it's crazy. There's like free coffee and donuts and everybody's in that room, but a lot of times there's not a lot of people in the room.

And we try to always make sure that that booth is staffed by one of us because we've had moments over the course of doing this at these booth, at these national conferences where people come up and share really personal stories about. Their own identity or like I mentioned earlier, oftentimes their experience with their own kids.

Um, you know, embracing a queer identity in some way. And, that's been like a really nice positive experience that we've had at the booth in a way that again, we can hopefully help more wildlife biologists just sort of feel at home and accepted and heard, within the society so they can kinda like.

I don't know. We can take some of that weight off of 'em, like Yeah. Bring your whole self here. Mm-hmm. Like, go give a cool talk or go, you know, come up with a new idea to solve these big challenges we face with wildlife conservation. Like, that's what we're really here for. Uh, we just wanna make sure you can bring your whole self to the table.

And in our booth and our initiative, we hope is, we're striving, you know, to, to foster that. 

[00:20:25] Ed Arnett: Share your science and your karaoke voice. Yeah. Well, science, we did not do the karaoke. There was,

[00:20:32] Adam Janke: Yeah. Not unanimous enthusiasm over karaoke. No. we're, we, were not performing, but we were happy. Others had fun.

Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:38] Ed Arnett: Well, you're both doing amazing research. I really am intrigued by your project. I was a former birder for many years. Um, former former, you're right. Always wants a birder. Always a birder. No, but bird research really intrigues me a lot. Yeah. Silas, you're a PhD candidate now. Mm-hmm. So you're real close. Yeah. What are your long term aspirations? 

[00:21:00] Silas Fischer: Well I've been studying, desert songbirds and how they respond to climate change. And so I think long term that's what I want to continue to do. You know, it's so cool to study species that operate kind of on the limits of what physiology is capable of. And so, desert birds have been declining because of climate change, but we don't really know why, like from a mechanistic standpoint, what are the demographic and physiological mechanisms underlying those declines? I think that's kind of what I want to address is what specifically is causing these declines and, you know, what can we do about it?

I feel like I'm on the trajectory to stay in, in academia maybe, but I'm open to anything. I just want to continue studying birds pretty much. 

[00:21:45] Ed Arnett: After you finish your PhD. 

[00:21:46] Silas Fischer: After I finish my PhD.

[00:21:47] Ed Arnett: There are only two kinds of PhDs, those that are done and those that are not done. So 

[00:21:52] Silas Fischer: We're getting close.

[00:21:53] Ed Arnett: Good. Adam, let's hear a little bit more about your research program and your extension program. 

[00:21:58] Adam Janke: So, yeah, I have split responsibilities through the research and extension mission of the University, Iowa State University where I work. I've always worked on agriculture and wildlife conservation 'cause I, for better or worse, have never left the corn belt.

I did all my training and all my degrees. From the eastern edge of the corn belt where they farm tobacco next to cornfields and to the northern part of the corn belt where they farm sunflowers next to cornfields and everywhere in between. So I've worked all over the corn belt and I work on wildlife conservation, especially bird conservation in those agricultural landscapes.

And there in those places what we're generally trying to do is find opportunity areas for wildlife conservation on the margins of farms. Sometimes specifically in the production operation, like range applications is a good example of that, like. We can grow more forage and more grassland birds with a few, tweaks to cattle production practices.

But in like, like the intensively farmed landscapes where I work, what we're looking for is like something to get by on the margins. Yeah. So like riparian buffers, wetlands, strategically placed grasslands within, low profitable areas of fields and things like that. And so a lot of my research, me and students and collaborators, we try to like quantify those outcomes.

So right now we happen to be doing a bunch of work on nutrient treatment wetlands, where we daylight subsurface drainage tile, and before we ship that water rich and nitrate off to the Gulf of Mexico, we try to slow it down a little bit and, remove some of that nitrate. And what we're trying to understand is like while we're doing that, uh, societally important issue of, of cleaning up surface waters and agricultural landscapes, can we also do right by wildlife?

Like planting turtles or trumpeter swans. And so my students, we do a lot of research in those, highly modified, intensively farmed landscapes to try to look around the margins for areas where wildlife are thriving, and then try to go out and, work with farmers and landowners and policy makers to promote those practices to try to, to do right by wildlife in places where we, are using the land really intensively.

[00:23:58] Katie Perkins: What lessons have you learned in, the experience of creating this space that you would maybe give some advice for other organizations, workplaces, things like that, that they can do to be a little bit more inclusive for all of their, employees and workers. How can they, how can they do a better job of being inclusive? 

[00:24:17] Silas Fischer: Yeah, that's a good question. 

Giving space and acknowledging like, you know, we as Out In the Field organizers, we come to the conferences and we love doing it.

We love promoting out in the field and making other people feel comfortable. But it does like. Take away a little bit of our ability to like talk about science. You know, we're going away fewer talks and that kind of thing. So I think just like acknowledging that like it, it takes time and energy to do this sort of thing.

And so if you, I guess, can provide that wiggle room and space to be able to do that kind of thing. Just acknowledging that it takes time and energy and real meaningful engagement to do that. Mm-hmm. I don't know. Adam, what do you think?

[00:25:03] Adam Janke: Yeah, I agree with everything Silas said and, um, yeah, creating and fostering opportunities for people to find community broadly to find, like we've talked like many different dimensions of diversity. is one sort of organizational priority that we can do. And like the, the like simple thing like having out in the field on the Wildlife Society's website, like we don't take that for granted.

Like the, the opportunity to like signal that, societal level support for, people that identify with the LGBTQ plus community is just like, that's an awesome example of that outward signal of acceptance that's really valuable. the other thing that Silas mentioned is like, like in the literature they call it the minority tax, like if you're mm-hmm.

Like, you know, classically, women have to, do more to, you know, promote inclusion in the workplace than, than say a man may do while, while still having to like. you know, do the research or write the reports or mm-hmm. Uh, host a public meeting or anything like that. The minority text can like, lead to sort of fatigue or burnout, in people, that, embody historically oppressed or marginalized identities.

And so, yeah, just like anything to sort of combat that. And so in our, in our world, we call that allyship, right? Mm-hmm. And so we, in our organization, there's always this tension between us, like the people that identify with the LGBTQ plus community, and then the people that don't identify the LGBTQ plus community, but want to help.

Mm-hmm. Like they want to do something. And so we're always trying to find ways to like, take advantage of that. that interested in being, being an ally. And so, among other things, we have a decidedly less colorful ribbon for allies. Uh, you know, but we do have an ally ribbon at the, at the conference.

And so like, that's one way to signal that acceptance, which can be kind of cool. One of our organizers, Andy Tri, talks about being an upstander, like not a bystander, but an upstander. Like generally Silas and I aren't in the room when people are saying bad things about LGBTQ plus identities.

That's kind of the, like, that's a good thing, right? That's a social norm that is generally not accepted. And like, we're not, I don't know, I don't years of doing this. I've been an organizer for. almost five years now. I don't hear a lot of hate, but that doesn't mean that there isn't necessarily misunderstanding or hate or something like that.

And that's, that's a case where like allies play a big role and like, we don't know exactly how many people identify the LGBTQ plus community. There's, there's numbers out there, but obviously it's not the majority. It's far from the majority. And so that's where there's a role for everybody in sort of building a more inclusive, profession than just sort of like, yeah, like, Hey, I don't like the way you said that.

I have a queer friend, or I have a trans friend, or I have whatever, uh, and what you just said, isn't fair to them or doesn't reflect the complexity of their identity or the reality of their experience. 

[00:27:58] Katie Perkins: Well, you'll always have an ally with The Wildlife Society, and there'll always be a space here because we support all of our wildlife professionals, Yeah, definitely. If there's someone listening, you know, you say you get a lot of students at the booth. Mm-hmm. And maybe there's people that they're like, oh my gosh. This is the first time that I've heard that, you know, there's, there might be a space for me and, and they're so excited.

What advice would you give to them? Um, you know, early career professionals, people just figuring out these new things about their identity, in becoming engaged because you know, I think that can be really scary to like, come out in a workplace or something like that. Could you share any, words of advice or things that kind of helped you figure and navigate that area?

[00:28:35] Silas Fischer: Sure. well, I guess just plugging Out In the Field initiative. Come talk to us because chances are one of us, someone within our community has probably been through the same thing. And so I think like that's a big part of it is just, you know, we've kind of created this family, and we want to help each other go through these things.

So it kind of is it, it is scary to, you know, go up and introduce yourself to someone at a conference or send that email. I guess that's why we're here, right? So if we can provide that space for folks, that's a big part of it. And, you know, we have social media, we have a Discord channel. I think Adam and I are a little bit less technologically inclined to do that.

But there's a lot of different communities within those channels. And throughout the whole year, not just at the conference, we try to provide support. People ask questions about personal matters, work things and I think that. Just having other folks to look up to and you know, maybe you find kind of a mentor or a mentee.

We're trying to just create that space. 

[00:29:37] Ed Arnett: Yeah, I was gonna say, it's really not that different than any mentoring program. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It that can take multiple forms, right? 

[00:29:43] Adam Janke: That's exactly what I was thinking too. Mm-hmm. As Silas was saying that, yeah. So yeah, finding that, and that's part of the effort, right, is like these identities can be invisible unless we do the work of outing, outing ourselves, right?

Like we out ourselves every day, um, in some, in some way. And, of course that gets easier and easier as you get further along, the first one's the hardest one, and some for, for many people. The first one's the hardest one, and then they get easier, as it comes. but if you can find an out role model or an out, mentor in your network, you're lucky.

And, and that's something to take advantage of. And without exception, uh, my experience has been that um, you know, people in the LGBTQ plus community want to help other people as they sort of confront their identity and what it means for them and their life at home or at work or otherwise. Um, and so, and then, yeah, our initiative is trying to make that a little bit easier.

So, uh, in 2018, um, I would've said I knew zero queer wildlife professionals. Uh, in 2019. March in 2019, I think is the month that Travis's article I Am One of you came out and I knew one. And then a bunch of people around the country emailed Travis and said, I want to know more I'm, I know one or two, but, but I want to know more and I remember I was one of those people and, uh, Travis, I wrote this nervous one line email. Dear Dr. Booms, I really appreciated your article and something like that. You know, I still have the email and, um, and, uh and Travis wrote a really warm response and he said, Hey, you know, a lot of people have been saying the same things and we think there's something here and we need to create a community and we need to increase visibility and we're gonna try to do something in Reno, is what he said to me.

Mm-hmm. And so, and I wasn't in the initial lot of organizing. I wasn't quite there yet in my own journey. But other people were Katie, Colleen, and others and, and so boom. Then there's all of a sudden, now it's late 2019, and I go to this conference and there's like all these, there's like eight of 'em or something, right?

Being, being out and proud and stuff. And then the organizing group grows and out in the field grows. And now one of our initiatives, you're gonna catch on to my quirky naming, our, our, our quirky naming conventions. We have the Out In the Field, Out In the Field initiative, which is our effort to feature queer wildlife biologists out in the field.

That also happened to be out in the sort of LGBTQ sense. And so we, at the conference, we always solicit pictures of people out in the field, uh, that are comfortable having their identity shared publicly. And um, we sometimes share that kind of stuff on social media. We have these socials that are targeted just for people in the LGBTQ plus community, so we can have difficult personal conversations in a safe space, uh, with other people that have that lived experience.

And from that, the discord that Silas mentioned and others we're hoping that people can connect and they can know other queer wildlife biologists and, and have, have these conversations and, have role models. 

[00:32:47] Ed Arnett: Well, we really appreciate your wild lives being shared with us and the wild party we had the other night, the reception. Um, no, you, you're doing amazing work in the wildlife space, but you're really strong voices for your community and you'll always have a space at The Wildlife Society.

So thanks for joining us and thanks for listening to the Our Wildlife Podcast. We'll see you next time. 

That's all for today on the Our Wild Lives podcast. If you're feeling inspired to take your next step on your journey, join The Wildlife Society at wildlife.org. Follow us @TheWildlifeSociety. Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with someone who needs something a little wilder in their lives. We'll see you next week.