The Professional Artist

This week we talk about the difference between taking ballet class as a student versus as a professional. Does class change once dance becomes your career, or are we always students no matter how far we’ve come? We dive into growth, discipline, ego, curiosity, and what it really means to keep learning in an art form that never stops demanding more of you.

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We’re two girls waiting in the wings — and we’re so glad you’re here. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Beyond the Point, two girls waiting in the wings. We're your hosts, Sarah and Amy, former professional dancers, and we're pulling back the curtain on the real ballet world.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

From body image and relationships to money, mental health, and life after the stage. No topic is off limits.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Whether you're a dancer, a retired bunhead, a parent, a student, or simply curious about what really happens behind the scenes, you're in the right place.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Follow along with us on Instagram at Beyond the Point Pod to share your questions, comments, and episode ideas. Now, let's step beyond the point shoes and into the stories that shaped us. And now you have the option to still be a student or not. And I think that's like a really weird option to have.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

I would find it strange to have it as an option, but also I would imagine that most people want to take class.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Alright, should we talk ballet?

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Okay, let's talk ballet. Like if someone in terms of watching other other like your peers dancing and stuff, like if someone's kind of not feeling good that day, you know, do you need to like you you're a a full thing, like working together as a as a group, and when you don't like start the day like that?

SPEAKER_01 2:30

I mean, even if you're like doing partnering and your partner never shows up, then you only see each other in rehearsal?

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Right, right. Yeah. So the student identity never truly disappears, and and that's that's a good thing, but it can mature. What's one thing? Oh, how you thought being a professional dancer meant when you were younger, like how you imagined per a professional in class, which you actually saw professionals in class at a young age. So maybe you have a truer idea, had a truer kind of idea.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Yeah, I think I yeah, I think I always kind of knew, but then I also think that with our um our director, it was still run so academically, you know, so I don't know that I was getting a real idea of what professional was. But one thing I just think about a lot when I hear the word professional is how, you know, and James would teach, and like if somebody wasn't holding their arm or doing their arm and how it was choreographed, they would be like touching their body or like feeling if their ribs are down or touching their body. James would always be like, Oh, you're professional. Oh, are you a professional dancer? So I always loved that.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Like, I'm like, yeah, I hear that because I became such a professional.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

That is what people think of, you know, you're like, oh, I'm gonna wear my warmups and I'm gonna touch my body and I'm gonna feel it. I'm gonna feel it instead of just like doing the work and letting the work speak for itself, which is the professional way of doing it.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

I thought that, yeah, you wearing a lot of warmups was like very professional as a kid. I'm like, garbage, garbage pants. That person has on garbage pants and like all the leg warmers and all the sweatshirts, they must be a real professional.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

That's pro-level right there.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

And everything is tattered. There's like holes in everything.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

They're like, that's what I would. I'd be like, well, that person's really good.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Yeah, same. For sure. If you could wear warm-ups, you were professional.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Yeah. And then if you had like, you know, sunken in eyes and were like smoking a cigarette and looked like tired and over it, and you're doing well for yourself. You're a real profession. You made it. For sure. Yeah, the cigarette too, yeah. Okay. Did becoming professional feel different than expected? It felt like I was still a student very much so.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Oh, really? Even when you went like to Sacramento and stuff?

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Yeah, I guess a little bit less. Things kind of like peeled layers peeled off of like that student identity. But I think still the uh our main teacher, the ballyman just at Sacramento was a very good teacher, and she taught class, like very teacher-y, like academic. Her classes were really hard too. So I always had a real student mindset when she was teaching. Um, some when some of the repetitors came in, you know, that's a little you could kind of show your own personality or flair a little bit more. Um yeah, I don't know. What about you?

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Um I'm trying to think. I mean, definitely. I mean, it was such a like seamless transition from school to company for me because it was all blended. So I didn't really ever feel a difference. Maybe I thought that once I was in the company, I would be a little more safe. And I don't think that was particularly the case. And then when I went away, like to State Street, somewhere that was more relaxed, I um I think I just kept that student mentality so that my teachers, who were really approachable and really cool people, they really liked me because I stayed in my lane a bit. And it wasn't like that we couldn't talk, you know. I still feel like I was able to kind of be myself, but um, I was still a student student when I took class, I think.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

And they liked that because I yeah, you were like giving them respect. You weren't like ch uh super chummy or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Yeah. What do you for I know you don't take last now, but like thinking back to our days, would you rather have had um a teacher where you were like really chummy? Like, what if Krista was your teacher? Or would you prefer somebody like but like a ballet mistress master who's like has that stern persona, not but isn't mean, so that's why I don't want to say James, but like right, right.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

Um someone you respect and revere, um, and you want to be like on your A game and that you're taking you know a lot of pointers or whatever. I think I think a combination of the both those two things would be pre optimal. Because if I if like I'm thinking of is if Krista was my teacher every and Krista, if you don't know, is like a co was a co-worker of ours, and now she's the ballet mistress uh at Nevada Ballet Theater. But uh I I wouldn't get like set in my ways, I don't think, but I don't think I would push myself as hard. But I don't know, then again, like maybe I would feel safer and feel better so I could do better.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

And then yeah, and it I feel like we both have that pleasing thing in us, like we talked about. So then I'd be like, well, I don't want my friend to be disappointed in me.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Yeah, that too. Yeah, there's that mutual respect. Like I wouldn't do you do, I would give I want to give you my 100% because I would hope you would give me 100%. Yeah, yeah, that probably would be the healthier bet. Oh, teaching students versus teaching professionals. Why don't you talk a little bit about this? Because you have some real experience teaching students of all ages, um, and also professional dancers.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Yeah. Um, well, one thing about state teaching students is that you're still disciplining them and you're still trying to keep them in line. And I think that no, you can't go to the bathroom. I never say you can't go to the bathroom. Um, but I think I enjoy that part. I enjoy uh well, I really like discipline. I'm disciplined, so I enjoy that part of ballet. So when you take that part out, um like with professionals, that is tricky for me. Yeah. To not what's the line here? However, when I teach adults, I have no problem with that because most of those adults want the discipline. They're there to get into their ballet bod and ballet brain. So they are disciplined. There might be more chit chatty, which I enjoy as well. Um, I don't have a problem with that, but I miss the discipline when it comes to professionals because it's like, what's my role here? My role is just to give you combinations. And I feel like coming up with combinations isn't my strong point either. Like, I think my value in the studio is corrections and discipline and teaching you new ways to think about things, which most principal or um professionals don't really want to take the time to hear. They just want to move their body and warm up. Yeah. And so it makes me feel like, okay, what I don't know what I'm doing here. Right. I don't have an identity in this studio. Whereas when I teach students and adults, I I know my worth. I'm more aware of my worth in that studio.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

I love I love hearing what you have to say in class. And even when after I retired taking your class too, I'm like, this is so helpful. This is so beneficial to like think of it this way. Seriously. So I wouldn't, I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to. And I don't know that anybody doesn't.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

I just don't feel like there's any light bulbs going off when you know, nobody's like, hmm, yeah. Yeah. Whereas I taught three days or two days last week at Body Box with adults and had a great time. Walked out of those studios in those classes being like, ooh, I'm good at this. That was fun. Like everybody's like, oh yeah, that was fun. And it's just such a different feeling than when I walk out of the professionals. And again, nobody is disrespectful, nobody is rude. It's just a fully different vibe that goes on in the studio. And everybody's like a really great, nice, they're all great, nice people and really great dancers.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Yeah. It's I I love teaching adults too, who are just in it to to do it for the love of dance, for the for the health benefits, what whatever it is, um, that they're really hungry to learn. And um yeah, that would be, I guess, lacking. Overall, I feel like, yeah, class is such a great opportunity to learn and grow. Yeah, and be adaptable too. Like adaptability, because oftentimes more we dance, the more we get set in our ways and we get set in our habits. And a lot of those habits don't come to the forefront unless someone calls them out.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

And that can happen even if you're super, super good. Right. How so how do professionals respond differently to corrections then? Because I mean, like if you're looking around the room and a teacher's giving a correction, what are the students doing? What are professionals doing? I feel like go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Well, I think it's a plethora of different choices. I mean, there's a like for who I teach now, there's the ones that I look to when I give a correction because I know that they'll give me something back. And then there's the ones that are just kind of standing there being like, Margaret, right, yeah. And I try to like Yeah. You're like, it's not about me. It's not about me. Exactly, exactly. I look for the I look for the ones that are gonna give me a little bit of something back, but I really cut back on anything I say or correct in those classes. Interesting, yeah. Um I don't talk between combinations.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Oh, yeah, you don't, yeah. I feel like if anything, you could say say more, but like it's just a matter of what you feel comfortable with. I wonder if maybe you're so you're like, I don't want to overexplain things that you I don't know. Yeah, you just probably do the magical amount.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

I don't, I have no idea. I have no idea.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

I cannot read you can't read people's minds and everyone's so different.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Um Betsy said something, I think you were there when we were taking class and she was saying how annoying it is when teachers show full out. And I was like, You're like, I'm doing that. What do you mean? You want people, what does that mean? And that has gotten in my head so much that I'm like, should I not point my foot fully when I'm doing this tongue? Are they annoyed that I'm showing all of plie's? But then I have a pianist.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Oh my god, showing off again. Just stop dancing already.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Will you stop showing me what the combination is?

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Don't tell me what the combination is. Show it to me.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Say it exclusively with your words, or else I know it makes me so curious to know what other teachers are doing out there.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Well, I tell you, like um Edward Volulla, who used to be the director of Miami City Ballet, he his class was such a trip because you couldn't, or at least I couldn't, understand anything he was saying or doing. He was just like everything was just kind of like jazzy. He'd be like, okay, and then the and I'm like, what the fuck? Are we doing fondness or like grumble? Like, I don't even know.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

But I guess Betsy wishes more for more of that.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

Yeah, I guess so. It's just like your guess is as good as mine. And I remember like some of the company members would take our class because this was during this summer program. And I remember what I was probably looking so confused, and this one company member came over to me and she's like, just do whatever you think it is. And I was like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

That's so weird. He never like he only did like hand gestures.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

He would kind of move around the floor. Like I'm thinking of when we went across the floor and stuff. Okay, he would move across across the floor, but like I didn't. I'm like, is it like devil pay carte? Is it like Tame Padbure? Is it like a chasse? Who and it was like you didn't, but you wouldn't ask him, you wouldn't be like, um, excuse me, what is this? You just like do it. So um, what instantly loses a room for if you're the teacher, or no, well, if you're if you're taking a class, what instantly loses a room for the teacher? Like a teacher does something and you're like, no.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Um, I think if a teacher, if it's like really clear that the teacher is there to watch themselves teach, that's like a hard no for me. Like they're still performing. But yeah, definitely somebody who's just there to perform is a no for me. Somebody that does like all the combinations with you.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

See, that's I'm probably all the combinations with you. Yeah, you're like, well, okay, then I'll just watch you do it. Because that's what you're doing. I cannot stand that.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

Someone nowadays, somebody who videos all of their class to put on oh I ticket talkade or the oh tickety-talkade, the tickety-dockade or the Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Yeah. Oh, I didn't think of that one. Yeah. Not for me. Um, I wrote down obligatory corrections. Um, that loses me. Like, I was just I was thinking about a certain teacher that we had at MVT. Like, just things, yeah. Just like or talking too much, like over-explaining something. It's like, oh my god, okay, we we get it.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Yeah, well, you want to keep moving, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Yeah. Do you think professionals are the hardest students? For sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

I mean, I think student kids are really hard, but again, with kids, you can just be like, no, this is what you're doing, right? Tighten up, button up, let's go. Um, so they have their own challenges, but I think professionals are by far the most hard to teach.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

I would imagine, especially nowadays, too, with social media, that students are wanting to do like more turns, higher extension, more uh like quick, quickly um something that's gonna get the someone's attention really quickly. Like, wow.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Right, which they don't understand. I want you to do more turns with higher extension and all that too, but you gotta take bar. Yeah, yeah. And you gotta listen to what I say at bar to do more turns and have higher extension.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

I'm gonna spin so many times.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Yeah, yeah. I don't know how to do releve, but do you think I could get point shoes next year? Do you think I'm ready for point shoes?

SPEAKER_00 20:18

I think point shoes would really beef up my Instagram followers. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

I have some photo shoots I'm doing soon. And point shoes really go with the aesthetic.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Do you think that doing class you could ever work on more of like the emotional side or like artistry side? For sure. I think so too.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Well, if you can't do if you can't do your class steps with artistry and emotion, I'm not sure how you're gonna do choreography because they don't happen to be the same steps.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

I always liked finding artistry and kind of like an emotional depth to simple class combinations. You know, whether it be the movement itself kind of driving you or the music, you know, maybe the pianist is playing something, particularly like in a certain way. Um it doesn't always have to be this like big explosive artistic moment to grow in that way. I think yeah, what correction stayed with you forever? Um, oh, I I was thinking like structural, like alignment stuff, like being up in your hips. Um, I think about that even now that I don't like take class, just like standing up straight or like anatomical things, being high up on your hip, I think. And also like um movement, like. Where a spiral comes, spiraling like from your back. I mean, James used to say it an excessive amount of times, but I do like that idea. So I've yeah, I think I that I'll always keep that. But now that I'm thinking about my shoulders down, I'm gonna really try to.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Yeah, I do always think about that because I really roll forward in my shoulders. Yeah, I have to work a lot on it with all my weight stuff and my gyro.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Yeah. I think so many of if you're sit if you're listening to this right now, what are your shoulders doing? Are they hunchy bunchy?

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Mine are hunchy bunchy, and Amy's are upsy daisies.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Mine are earrings is humility essential for to artistry? Yeah. I say uh extent.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

Humility is essential to humanity.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

But yeah, I mean anybody that thinks they got there.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

If you didn't if you don't have some authenticity or sprinkle in some of your uh a vulnerable vulnerability, then I think you're gonna struggle.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Get out of here.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Get out of here with that.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

How do you correct without diminishing someone? You have to do that all the time when you teach. Yeah, uh you ever say you didn't know you dumb fat cow.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Dumb fucking idiot. Get out of here. Leave now. Don't cry, just leave. Um, yeah, I think building someone up first and not in like a performative way, but just like pointing out their strengths before you give them a correction in a way, like kind of sandwiching the quote unquote negative thing with two more positive things. Um I guess, right? Like, so you're not just like, hey, you dipshit, like what are you doing? You are look, you're doing this, this, this, and this wrong. All right.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Um, I yeah, I feel like also just like how you phrase it is like, oh, try thinking about it like this and see if that helps. Yeah. Being like, why would you do it like that? What are you doing? Do you know anything at all? Why are you don't know what you're doing, and you're here in a class to learn what you're doing. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Yikesy doodles. Yikes. Don't call students um, oh my gosh, doll, baby doll. I remember one time Stephen Mills, the artistic director of Bally Austin, he called me, he would call me doll sometimes in like a derogatory way. Like, listen, doll. And then one of the company members, um, she said to me, I remember her name was Melissa, and I saw her at the gym, and she was like, Listen, you don't have anything to worry about unless he calls you baby doll. And then, like the next day or week or something in class, he was like, Oh, baby doll. And I was like, Oh my god, it's over for me, it's over.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

Oh no, and then it was over, and then it was over, and then he was like, get out of here. I remember James used to love to sing if I only had a brain.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Oh my god, yeah, that's so mean. Like being mean just to be mean.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Just to be mean, just to be insane, yeah. That's insane behavior.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

I know. Yeah. Stephen Mills told my friend once that she her dancing looks like it belongs in a shopping mall. Um, I got told I look I look like I dance like Helen Keller.

unknown 26:31

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

By Stephen Mills.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Helen Keller's really accomplished.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

That kind of thing. I know, but she's been blind. Yeah, she is accomplished. Yeah. Um she would be a beautiful dancer. Ugh, you had some good ones. Okay, this is neither here nor there, but it's written down, and I start it is that confidence is not linear. And I just think that people need to hear that. And we need to hear that. Like, just because you evolve and get better as a dancer, as an artist, as a human, it doesn't mean that your confidence continues to ride that same like wave.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Yeah, because I can walk into one class and teach it and feel great. And then I walk into another one and I'm like, oh my God, should I hang up the teaching?

SPEAKER_00 27:28

I know. And even with teaching, yeah, with teaching Pilates too. Like there were some days even last year, and I have been teaching Pilates for like 10 years that I'm like driving to the studio, I'm like, I don't even know what I'm doing. Like, why do people listen to me? Like, I don't even know anything. Um, yeah. So give yourself a break.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Wait, I just have a this thing says class isn't punishment. I feel like that's something that people do now in class when you're teaching students, like kids students. Um, something that people do that really doesn't jive with me is when the kids in class are talking or they're doing something, and so then they have to hold a plank for 30 seconds, or they have to do some kind of like calisthenic thing. That drives me crazy because for one, like working out shouldn't be a punishment either. Cross-training and doing that is not a punishment, that's something your body needs, and I just think the punishment by working out and cross-training is like, but we want to teach them to cross-train and it pits them against their peers as well. So, like, uh freaking Suze Booze is always chit-chatting over there, and that now I have to hold a plank for 30 seconds. Now after class, I'm gonna be like, F you, Suze Booze.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

That's Suze Booze. That's such a good point, though. I think that's such an old school mentality. I hope that teachers aren't kind of steering away from that. Um, yeah, I know at the Pilates studio there's a teacher who, if your cell phone rang during class, like if you had your if you didn't turn it on silent or whatever and your cell phone rang, then everyone had to do it, it was something like 20 push-ups or something, or something like not even like Pilates, like something, yeah, mean. Like it's this is I'm not here for push-ups. Yeah, this is what you have to do.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

No, thank you. No, thank you. Okay. Wing. Winging. This is my singing. Winging it, winging it.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

I was gonna go high.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

I was waiting for it. Everyone's waiting for it. Mariah. Winging it. That was gorgeous. Did Fletcher just run away?

SPEAKER_01 29:59

No, Nepai's walking in right now. And he's walking in to me singing.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

This is the this is the singing portion. This is the musical portion.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Winging it. Okay, now you sing it. Winging it. Winging it.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Winging it. Okay. Would you rather have to wear your favorite performance costume every day for a year or only communicate through dance teacher corrections? I would love to wear my favorite costume every day.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

Same. I don't have a favorite costume, but I'd love for somebody to make me one and then I'd wear it every day.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Do you have a favorite? I don't have a I don't have one in mind either, just like one that I would be my favorite. What's the weirdest thing ballet trained you to believe was normal? Working hard. I said foot pain and like weird treatments about like when you're in pain. Um, I remember putting like oragel on my feet or something. Yeah, I remember that being a thing. Yeah. Yeah, like and just all the like all the weird shit I would put in my point shoes and like put on my body like icy hot and like painkillers, and like, oh, you don't have to have like four Advil every day.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Yeah. Well, I watch, you know, when we watch below deck and people are like are um on the crew complaining about their job, my mind is blown. Yeah. Thinking, but that's your job. Yeah. What do you mean? You don't want to be the best at your job? That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

Who are you? And you can you have enough money to be on this job.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

You're gonna make twelve hundred dollars from doing that. I made that in a month. That's crazy. Get to work.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

Would you rather do nutcracker every year forever or never hear Tchaikowski again? I would do nutcracker every year, no problem. Same, same. That's a dumb question, actually.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

All right, take that strike. What is the most former dancer thing you still do accidentally?

SPEAKER_00 32:33

Okay. I was thinking about how when I was teaching Pilates, I would like snap while I was counting. I guess that's kind of like dancer, like dance teachery. Um, think that I still think the teacher after class, like if it's a workout class or whatever. Oh, for sure. Is that just nor like I feel like that's just general, like a nice but then sometimes I don't say thank you.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Yeah, I don't think my teacher that I take from now in my group exercise class. I if I pass her, I do, but she's not just like standing there. It would be like you know, the way that ballet way to yeah, and I feel like I'm I but I do wrestle with that almost every time I take. I'm like, should I go through? But she's usually talking to somebody if if we clear paths or something, but certainly if I'm taking a ballet class, I would go think my teacher. Do you do stuff that's still like dancer-y?

SPEAKER_00 33:35

Uh yeah, I show up on time. That's do you do corrections, like quote unquote, like do the correction when if you're in like an exercise class? Like I was thinking about like when I take orange theory and and the teachers like on the weight floor being like blah blah blah, like make sure you keep your ribs in or something. Like I'll kind of like yeah, be like, oh, I understand.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

Well, I fully do that. And I yeah, I do that for one because, well, if it's gonna help me do better, then of course I do, but also because I always think of being that student that the teacher wants who's listening and engaged. Um, and also I just look around in those group exercises, exercise classes and watch everybody not do that.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

So I'm like, okay, I've got the instructors like does everyone it's like like you. Like you say, this did you would you rather relive your worst quick change or relive your most embarrassing audition?

SPEAKER_01 34:37

I feel like that's a good one for you because you've had a terrible quick change situation.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

But I did have a terrible quick change and I wouldn't relive that, but I would relive this embarrassing situ uh audition. I I'll just tell the story super quick because I don't think I've told it. When I was a senior in high school, I auditioned for um uh not Jeffrey, uh Juilliard, the Juilliard school to go to college there. But I didn't really want to go to college there because my plan was to just do college as like a layman, like not a dancer and and dance different, like separate. Uh, but I did wanted to do the audition and I got accepted to go to the audition. So I didn't, but you needed a modern if you got past through the like cuts, you got past the classes, and you got past your ballet audition uh solo, then you did a modern or contemporary piece. And I just assumed like I wouldn't get that far because I thought I'd be cut during the modern class, um, but I wasn't, and so then I had to do my modern piece, which was like literally just an idea in my head and like a so cassette tape that I had, and or I guess it was a C D. Either it was a C D or a cassette tape, whatever. When I went to do it, the music wasn't playing and it was like, or it's skipping or something, like would it play? And um, it was just so embarrassing. My armpits were so sweaty. I kept trying to like get it to play, and um, they were like, you know what, that's okay. We actually weren't gonna that's all right. Because then I was like kind of trying to dance it to it, but it kept stopping or skipping or something. Oh god, it was so embarrassing. And they're like, that's all right. So you would relive that more than your quick change situation? Yeah, because I think I would have like enjoyed now as an adult, like reliving that just for the sheer like awkwardness of it. Yeah. Um, not necessarily to like change anything. Because I could be like, well, if I just used my voice and said, like, okay, I'll improv in silence now, then like but Which is probably what they were waiting for you to do. Probably. They probably were like, Okay, this is your time to really like show us what you've got. And I was just like, Okay, which ballet?

SPEAKER_01 37:07

I like this one because this is a good strong feeling about this. Um, which ballet stereotype is the worst? Cryer, the perfectionist, quiet assassin, class clown, I'm injured but dancing anyway, teacher's favorite, or chronic hair fixer. What's yours?

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Okay, I circled two. Okay, okay, and I I have a feel like strong feeling that you have at least one of these.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

Okay. I am one of those. No, no, no, oh, that we agree on it. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

Yeah, you're such the quiet assassin. You're the crier. No, no, no. That that like you you agree on this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, the crier for sure for me. Because I just like just don't go away again. Like hack it in. Sorry, just stop crying. Um, and then the I'm injured. I'm injured, but that is my number one. That is my number one.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

You are either injured or you're dancing, or you're dancing injured and you're hush hush about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You are not a hero for dancing while in pain. There's a dancer here, not at the company I work for, not at the company. Okay. Be really clear about that. There is not. Not that I know, because again, I pop in once a week. I have no idea their personality is like that. But another place that I know of, there is a dancer that pulls this every time there's a show. Oh, yeah, yeah. And it's like a week or two leading up, that's when the injury starts to kind of show its ugly little head. So then that person isn't and isn't rehearsing. And so now everybody's, oh, what do we do? Okay, let's fill in. Okay, here's what we get the and then it's the coming up to performance. Like, I can, I'm, I think I can I can make it a through.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

That's so infuriating for everyone.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

It's the worst person to be.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

Because that's not just your own shit. That's you now you're affecting everyone. Because everyone's like, Oh, is the casting changing? Like, are you alright?

SPEAKER_01 39:32

Do we have to we've just taken all this extra time to rearrange just in case? Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. Can't.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

Yeah. The teacher's favorite and the chronic hair fixer, like, whatever. Just you do you, you know. Yeah, all those are like, yeah, you're gonna have those people. Fine. Did you have any other thing? I think, yeah, that one was by far the biggest one.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

That's my biggest one, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

Okay, Sarah, would you rather teach three-year-olds forever or rehearse the biggest diva?

SPEAKER_01 40:07

I mean, I can't do three-year-olds forever. So I would take the biggest diva, although we had somebody in our company that filled that role. And I have the biggest diva. Yeah. And I would not want to rehearse that either. But I would take that over, I would take that over three-year-olds for three-year-olds.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

I think so. I think for me too. It's kind of a I I could see both ways because like three-year-olds, you're just like, okay, like let's be a butterfly, and whatever. You're not, it's not as complex. Yeah. But then it's like, you know, then they have to like go potty, and then they have like itches, and they're well, you hopefully have like three teenagers in there helping you who love that shit.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Yeah, it's just like, oh god. Also, with the biggest diva, I feel like I would be more comfortable maybe saying, Who the fuck are you? Right, right. Let's get let's stir up some shit. What's going on? Why, why do you think you're so great?

SPEAKER_00 41:17

I did have that thought too, like working with the biggest diva. You're like, well, at some point, it's at our you know, five or six, we're really gonna get down to the psychological issue of why she's like this.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

But then I watched Cynthia rehearse the biggest diva, and she never called her out on it. And she was so kind. And I'm she was kind. Like, how are you still being such a kind person right now? And I don't think that I would have that patience if I was the rehearsing person.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

Same. I feel like Cynthia, um, she just had that like piece inside of her that was like, Well, I don't yeah, and then I am also like, well, she wasn't had the right idea because it was so below her for that person to be acting like that.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

That she's like, probably in her head, she's like, Do you know who the fuck I am? Totally, totally. Sorry, why are you giving me why would you not give me attitude worth your time? So for her, it was just like, okay, this is hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Your big billy billy, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

Yeah, yeah. I don't think I'm as confident as Cynthia, though, so I would call it out.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

Would you rather okay? I didn't have an answer for this one. What's your most irrational irrational dance-related fear that never went away? Being late. Oh, okay. That's a good one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

I had I was gonna go ahead. I was gonna say, like, forgetting the choreography, but I think that's rational.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

That yeah, true. I had a um full nor like one of the anxiety dreams that we all have last night of couldn't I didn't have pink tights. I had to find some pink tights, and then my shoes were so dead, and I hadn't gotten the right shoes, and then I didn't have a needle and thread to sew my ribbons, and just like couldn't get to the stage, and I couldn't get my costume, and I couldn't get that was my last night's dream.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

Last night, uh, that's yeah. I get those every I get a very similar dream, maybe like once a month or so on average, I'd say nowadays. Oh, I I do want to know what you have to say about this. Would you um rather only take company class forever or only do rehearsals forever? Company class. Yeah. I think that's a hard question, though.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

Depends on rehearsing.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

That's true. As we go into the summer, um, take this opportunity to drink your water, like and subscribe.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

Um, yeah, this is a great time to. Catch up on the pod, send it to a friend. Yeah. Um, re-listen to it all. Tell your friends, tell your enemies. If you really hate it, send it to your enemy. Yeah. Send it to the biggest diva you know. And then be like, I was thinking of you.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

You should listen to this pod. Identify the biggest diva you know, find her or him number, text her the link. Or him. Or him. Oh, good point. Or them. Great point. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

Yeah, I know some male divas too.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

Well, we had such a great season, too, and we'll be back. And yeah, send us questions and um like topics that maybe you want to hear about or people that maybe you want to hear.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

Yeah. We're your two girls in the wings. And we'll cheer you on for your last show of the season. And we hope you get a lot of rest and recovery this summer. Yes. We'll see you back.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

Thank you for joining us on Beyond the Point. If you enjoyed today's conversation, subscribe and share this podcast with a friend who loves ballet or just loves a good story.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Got questions, comments, or topics you'd like us to cover? Connect with us on Instagram at Beyond the Point Pod.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

Beyond the Point is produced and edited by Christopher Gallant with additional editing by Sarah Furman. We'll see you next time, waiting in the wings.