Beyond Hiring and Firing: The Strategic Side of HR

HR isn’t just paperwork—it’s a strategic driver of business success. In this episode of On the Surface, Seth Stevens and Jordan Janet talk with Taylor Kirn, HR Business Partner, about how modern HR goes far beyond compliance and recruiting.

You’ll learn:
 ✅ What it means to have a “seat at the table” in HR
 ✅ How HR influences culture, leadership, and organizational strategy
 ✅ Why collaboration and relationship-building are critical for business growth
 ✅ The evolving role of HR in a male-dominated industry

If you’ve ever wondered how HR shapes the future of a company—or what it takes to move from tactical tasks to strategic impact—this conversation is a must-listen.

Thanks for listening!

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Transcript

*Transcript created automatically by AI*

Seth Stevens (00:05)
Welcome back to On the Surface, where we're talking all things heavy construction, material supply, and general business. I'm your host, Seth Stevens, and this week Jordan and I welcome Taylor Kern, who is the Human Resources Business Partner at Delta. During our conversation, we learn about Taylor's career, discuss how HR supports business strategy, and what it's like to have a seat at the leadership table. Let's go.

Seth Stevens (00:35)
Taylor Kirn HR business partner. That's your title. What does that mean?

Taylor Kirn (00:40)
this.

What does it mean? ⁓ HR business partner. think a lot of times people ask like, what exactly do you do? business partner really is just more of that strategic seat at the table. My opinion.

Seth Stevens (01:00)
from an HR standpoint, which means what? Like what is this problem to because I say people ask me what I do and I'm like good question. It looks different all the time.

Taylor Kirn (01:16)
That's very true. HR at different companies looks very different. I would say from my seat, I do a lot more of like people planning, ⁓ people training, people development, working with senior leaders.

Seth Stevens (01:36)
So strategic development for HR with a seat at the leadership table. You're not necessarily the first dispatch on a 911 call for daily fires. Well, speaking of, what does your career look like?

Taylor Kirn (01:49)
I once was.

gosh. You know, the story of how I've gotten here today seems unreal. I think it feels very fast forward, but it's been nine years, which is like a long time. I think too, considering when I started, I think you had that traditional turnover like every five plus years and then it kept going down and down.

And so felt like when I started, I already needed to think about like, what am I gonna do next? Like, where am I gonna work next? Because it was like three to five years.

Seth Stevens (02:32)
Yeah, I see.

Taylor Kirn (02:34)
So I was hired as the HR admin, which essentially was coming in and doing more of the daily block and tackle, recruiting, onboarding, orientations, bringing people into the organization.

I don't like that part. don't like that part. There's a lot of work that's involved in that. At the time we were very heavy in ReadyMix. Had a lot of turnover in ReadyMix. Drivers. Yeah. And I felt like as soon as you recruited and got someone in the door, they realized it wasn't for them and then you to start all over. That was a lot of work.

Seth Stevens (02:53)
You didn't like that part.

drivers.

Yeah.

Which Jordan did a lot of ready mix. We talked about that before. Why is ready mix, why are ready mix drivers high turnover?

Jordan Janet (03:26)
That's a good question.

Seth Stevens (03:27)
You think it's just because you actually do have a lot of them because we're essentially delivering all of the finished product.

Jordan Janet (03:34)
a lot of

them. is a local CDL, local driving CDL home every night position. And people are drawn to that. ⁓ But you know, doesn't pay the same as over the road and long haulers. ⁓ you know, people want to give it a try. And maybe they think the grass is greener on the other side. And there's a lot of competition for a local home every night CDL driver. And

in the ReadyMix industry, you have to know your product, or at least to a degree, and you're dealing with contractors who aren't always the most friendly, and especially not to the ReadyMix driver themselves. down the road has a much less technical product that you're delivering, and they're offering similar pay and home every night as well, and you don't have to deal with unruly contractors, then...

Seth Stevens (04:18)
Yeah, that's.

Jordan Janet (04:33)
that might be more attractive or the money back over the road. attractive. On top of all that, you do have a somewhat seasonal component to it. So it's tough. And then, you know, there are lots of opportunities for those drivers locally and there's not a lot of drivers to fill those roles. So that's a tough spot for sure.

Seth Stevens (04:36)
Yeah, that's It makes it even more kind of detrimental.

Yeah.

Jordan Janet (05:01)
What experience did you have when you came to Delta?

Taylor Kirn (05:05)
A degree. I fresh out of college. Sweet. I graduated in 2016 with my master's in organizational management. And really all I knew that I wanted to do was get a job, which is like, I could do anything with a degree like that. Yeah. Because that's kind of the process you go to college, you get your degree and immediately you get a job and I didn't I didn't have one. I didn't have one lined up. ⁓ So ⁓

Jordan Janet (05:06)
Then we fresh out of college.

Seth Stevens (05:21)
Most college kids, yep.

Taylor Kirn (05:34)
I actually wrote around, this is kind of an internal family story, but my grandpa took me around business to business and dropped off paper resumes. that's how you submitted your application. I feel like I was getting ready to say back in the day, but it really wasn't that long ago.

Seth Stevens (05:53)
mean, computers existed during that time. But you were separating yourself from the competition.

Taylor Kirn (05:57)
I wanted to show up in person and look nice and say, here's my resume. And I got a call from Delta, scheduled an interview and she gave me a chance. Yeah.

Seth Stevens (06:10)
Cool.

So you were saying HR admin. Lots of turnover, daily block and tackle. Didn't love it. What came next?

Taylor Kirn (06:14)
Mm-hmm.

Next was HR generalist where I really got more involved with some of the more strategic pieces. I worked under Phil Heimbecker who was an excellent mentor and someone who had kind of seen all the different areas of the business. He came from a lot of different HR experience and I think that really started to get my wheels turning about HR because I think if I would have stayed in that daily block and tackle,

position, I don't know that I would be here today.

Seth Stevens (06:58)
Your brain is yearning for more of a challenge in strategic forward thinking. I guess I shouldn't say more of a challenge. To your brain it seems like more of a challenge, but it's just different. Your forward thinking brain. Because the daily block and tackle can actually be very challenging.

Taylor Kirn (07:20)
It is very challenging. Like our Shared Services group right now is working overtime week over week trying to you know fill the slots and keep the bench and ⁓ they do an excellent job, but it's it's tough work.

Seth Stevens (07:33)
And

that's immediate problem solving critical thinking like adrenaline hits and some people love that for sure. So HR Generalist.

Taylor Kirn (07:45)
Mm-hmm did that for a few years which involved a lot more of like planning the orientations coordinating with safety ⁓ Getting more out in the field knowing the people knowing the positions job descriptions ⁓ I had a hand in bringing work steps to Delta, which was a lot of pre-employment physicals so a lot of it was just more of like creating process and procedure and I think that's

Seth Stevens (08:15)
Hmm.

Taylor Kirn (08:16)
That

was exciting at the time.

Seth Stevens (08:18)
That's cool.

And so how long did you do that? How long were you HR admin? Did you already say that?

Taylor Kirn (08:26)
No, I was probably admin for probably a year and a half, ish. And then was promoted to generalist and then I was senior generalist for probably a couple years. And that involved a lot more observation of the senior level. So that was a lot more business strategy, compensation planning, calibration sessions, a lot more of the back end, what goes into

Seth Stevens (08:32)
Okay. Yeah.

Taylor Kirn (08:56)
creating a salary table, training and development, what type of training are we gonna do? A lot of the compliance pieces, labor law, that was probably where I was challenged the most because a lot of those conversations I would go in and I would talk to Phil, hey, we got the situation and he would say, well, what would you do?

Seth Stevens (09:19)
I'm like...

Taylor Kirn (09:20)
I don't know, that's why I'm asking you. And that collaboration really helped with decision making. ⁓ Because in HR, things come at you from every which way. You don't know what you're going to see every day. You don't know who you're going to talk to. You don't know what types of situations you're getting into. ⁓ And to kind of have that partner to bounce things off of and say, how do think we should handle this? That I think I grew the most in that role.

Seth Stevens (09:48)
Yeah, I could see that. you went, so senior generalist, then you went to partner when we joined with Reeves. Okay. And so is that, are you still kind of doing the same stuff except to a more advanced level or is it different from your past experience?

Taylor Kirn (09:56)
business.

Correct.

It's a

lot different. With the Reeves platform, there's three business partners and we each kind of oversee our own regions. Delta's a little different since we're kind of a division. ⁓ But it almost seems more like business management. Like our way of doing things, our leadership team, what we're after, what we're trying to do, where we're trying to go, is a lot of forward thinking, a lot of strategic thinking, a lot of where are we now.

where can we be and how are we going to do that as a team? Those are a lot more of the conversations that I enjoy versus investigations and compliance and labor law and those things that sometimes I've...

Seth Stevens (10:48)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

You gotta have them. Yeah, can understand that. None of that stuff is fun to me either. All the ⁓ compliance and interviews and yada yada. ⁓ So the Reeves consolidation was like 2021. So you've been doing this for four years, roughly. Yeah. And that's looked different over time.

just because we've had different division managers, VPs, leadership teams, stuff like that. ⁓ You were involved in all the rebranding conversations, the reorg conversations, all of that. And ⁓ a very valuable partner in all of that for sure, because you see it from a different perspective a lot of times. Do you have any opinions on that?

or do you feel like this?

Taylor Kirn (12:01)
I kind of know where you're going. I was pretty passionate about the logo. ⁓ I was probably, I would admittedly say I was probably on the leading end of very prideful to work for Delta and who we are and what we do. And I was a little fearful that changing that would be changing things that we didn't want to change. ⁓ But I think the message behind rebranding and where we're trying to go based on

Seth Stevens (12:04)
⁓ yeah. ⁓

Taylor Kirn (12:31)
the success that we've had is, it's a good message, it's a good story.

Seth Stevens (12:35)
Yeah, for sure. Cool. So you were talking about, I wanna go back to school. So you did organizational management at SEMO You didn't do a whole lot of internships or anything, because you didn't have a job lined up. But now you're like very involved with SEMO. Everybody there knows you. You got invited to be at the... ⁓

What was that thing, the dinner type thing for the

Taylor Kirn (13:08)
Yeah, so I did the SEMO, Harrison College of Business did like a career panel where you got to kind of talk about where you've gone since SEMO and some things that you've seen and what you would tell students that are getting ready to start their careers. That was a lot of fun. ⁓ And then I also got invited to do the accreditation dinner. That's a big deal for them and I was very honored to be a part of that.

Seth Stevens (13:35)
What do you attribute that connection to? Does that make sense? Were you that connected while you were in school or did that come later through your own passion or did it come later through work and being involved with intern recruiting, business recruiting, that type of stuff?

Taylor Kirn (13:58)
So I would have to say, it definitely came later. So I was like a non-traditional traditional student, if that makes any sense. I became a, I was a young mom. So I didn't have the same like freshman year experience as most would in college. ⁓ So I got my undergrad in communication disorders and kind of the goal was to go into speech pathology. That's what I wanted to do. And I saw it through to four years ⁓ until I didn't get into grad school.

And I was like, well, I'm a 4.0 student and what do you like now what? Now what am I supposed to do? And my options were either transfer to another school or wait it out and hopefully get in the next year. And I was like, well, I can't transfer. I've got a little one and I don't want to just sit around and wait. So I transitioned into the College of Business, had to take a few classes to kind of get caught up accounting, the economics, those types of things.

Seth Stevens (14:37)
Hmm.

Blit.

Taylor Kirn (15:00)
And yeah, that started my master's in organizational management. I was super fortunate to have a professor, Dr. Erin Fluegge I'm sure you both are familiar with. She was fantastic, became a quick mentor of mine through just taking one of her classes and she connected a good group of girls together. It was called Little Black Book Women in Business. And it was essentially...

teaching young females how to network and get into the business world because you don't know what you don't know. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. She took us to chamber events, which is super intimidating as a student. ⁓ She just kind of exposed us to that different realm of the business world and got really close to a handful of girls that were still really close today. And I think ⁓ we credit a lot of

Seth Stevens (15:35)
That's cool.

Cool.

Taylor Kirn (15:58)
what we saw through that master's program and whenever her or Kevin Dixon, he's another fantastic mentor, if they ask for something, we were there to help because they've definitely given us a good start in where we are today and so it's kind of a give back.

Seth Stevens (16:16)
Yeah,

that's awesome. Well, I've just noticed that like more so recently that you've been very involved with it and are passionate about it. I just think it's cool. I mean, it's an additional like business connection as well since you work here, but it's cool to give back in more ways than just monetary.

Taylor Kirn (16:41)
I appreciate that. One, too, I think I didn't have an internship. I think that you need to have an internship. You need to go out and do something in the world of wherever you think that you're going to land because if you like it, you know you're on the right path. And if you don't, then you may need to. And we've seen that just internally. I think our intern program is pretty, it's pretty elite in what they get to experience, where they get to go.

Seth Stevens (16:59)
For sure.

Taylor Kirn (17:10)
Some of those kids have never flown on a plane without their parents. Like, can you guys imagine being 22 and being like, okay, we're going to fly to Greenville, South Carolina, and you have to pack your own bags and get on your plane and schedule your Uber? Like, that's a lot.

Seth Stevens (17:15)
and be kind of.

Yeah, it is. Pretty tough. It is good. It is good. I agree with you, people should do it. And I tell any interns that we have, regardless of what field they're in, is like, ⁓ I don't want my job or your internship here to like pull you in. Like my sole job isn't to pull you into this industry or get you to work here. It's basically for you to figure out if you like this or don't like it.

Taylor Kirn (17:26)
So I think our programs, pretty.

Seth Stevens (17:54)
Because you just need to have multiple internships to figure out... Exposure. Yeah, what you do or don't like, right? anyway. Okay, what's like a typical day or week? I know like some roles, typical day can be tricky because you don't have like a daily routine in a lot of areas, but weeks tend to look more similar week over week, like generally.

Obviously there's projects and things that come up, but what does it look like for you?

Taylor Kirn (18:29)
So Seth knows that I'm a planner. So I'm going to say he gave me some of these questions to noodle on a little bit. And ⁓ I will say it's helpful because if you're going to be in a spot where someone's going to ask you a question, you kind of want to have something prepared. But this one was interesting because I served tables my entire college career at the Pasta House. Here it's coming back. So excited. ⁓

Seth Stevens (18:52)
Okay. Back? Yeah.

Taylor Kirn (18:57)
I was a server for seven, eight years. And if you've ever served tables, there's like this beautiful chaos of being in that rush hour where you're trying to get, right? You were a server, yeah? You're serving all the things and you're taking all the orders and like, there's this kind of like moment where you're like, ⁓ gosh, I'm gonna make good money tonight.

Seth Stevens (19:13)
Yeah.

Taylor Kirn (19:22)
It's busy, everything's good, but you're just trying to get to every table and get them exactly what they need throughout the shift, right? And if you don't, it impacts your tip, right? That is the perfect example of like my week to week. You're just trying to get to every table and serve every table to the best of your ability.

Seth Stevens (19:31)
Uh-huh.

Taylor Kirn (19:49)
and just hope that you don't forget to refill somebody's tea or order their garlic bread or something like that.

Seth Stevens (19:55)
I feel that. Dude, you came in here with an analogy. I like it. ⁓ That made me think about, as you were talking, that made me think about servant leadership. Yeah. And ⁓ I think we could legit have a whole topic on that, because I'm pretty passionate about that and think that that is a, you know, big believer of that's... ⁓

fantastic way to lead, think that I tried to lead that way, but it's through like the beautiful chaos of trying to serve everybody with the knowledge and abilities that you can until their, you know, until their plate is full or they tell you what they need or whatever. Anyway, a little sidebar. What's your...

favorite part about HR.

Taylor Kirn (20:57)
It's definitely working with all levels of the company. have thought about that. I've been asked that question so many times. It's very traditional HR because HR looks different wherever you work. ⁓ For me and my role today, which has by far been my favorite role, you may...

Seth Stevens (21:09)
Yeah.

Taylor Kirn (21:20)
be brought into conversation with new hires, with people who have been here two years, with senior leaders, with good performers, not good performers, with top leaders, with whatever that looks like. on a weekly basis, I get to interact with every level of the business. I like that.

Seth Stevens (21:36)
Mm-hmm.

That's very fair. to meeting could look drastically different.

Taylor Kirn (21:45)
Yes.

It takes a while to shift that mindset.

Jordan Janet (21:48)
It takes a very dynamic person to be able to do that.

Seth Stevens (21:53)
For sure. For sure. Okay, you said that's a common question that people ask you. Do they also ask you what your least favorite part is?

Taylor Kirn (21:54)
challenging.

yeah.

I think because most people assume that the least favorite part is like firing people, ⁓ which is a least favorite part, but we always get the assumption that HR fires people. HR doesn't actually fire? HR doesn't hire or fire anyone.

Seth Stevens (22:28)
Yeah, that's true.

Taylor Kirn (22:30)
We don't. ⁓ That's your manager. And I think ⁓ that's probably the common misconception is like, I bet your least favorite part is firing people. Yeah, I don't like to see anyone lose their job, but ⁓ I would have to say my least favorite part is probably the compliance part. It takes up a lot of time and you to be very specific. There's a lot ⁓ on the line if you get it wrong.

Seth Stevens (22:57)
Yeah, no doubt. Okay, well that makes sense. I'm sure that's a lot of people's least favorite part of their... There's compliance in a lot of people's jobs. Yes, exactly.

Taylor Kirn (23:11)
How's that for general?

Seth Stevens (23:12)
Yeah. Well, I mean, it looks different, obviously, for HR than like for, you you govern, you're governed by different bodies and stuff like that. So it looks different, but it's not ever ideal. Right. ⁓ So you were recently featured in B Magazine, the women edition, right? Women in industry.

Is that what it was?

Taylor Kirn (23:43)
⁓ women in male dominant.

Seth Stevens (23:46)
Male-dominated industries. So you were featured because construction is historically very male-dominated. I read it.

Taylor Kirn (24:00)
Thanks. I didn't even get a copy. ⁓

Seth Stevens (24:03)
You didn't? ⁓

I need to get It took me until that magazine came out to figure out what those, what you were doing with those like pictures and stuff outside one day. was like, okay, well, I guess this is just happening. you said in there that you don't even really think about it as male dominated, right? To an extent, that's kind of what.

Taylor Kirn (24:16)
shot.

Seth Stevens (24:32)
he had made the comment about. what's, what do you mean by that? And then what keeps you in construction?

Taylor Kirn (24:42)
So I just really feel like I just show up to work every day and just do my job. I don't feel like, I don't think about it being male versus female. I don't think about the numbers. I don't think about when I show up to talk to an employee that I'm outnumbered by males. it's just, I don't think about it. ⁓ I think that...

What I like most about the construction industry is the people. And I know that we've said that time over time, but construction's a field of very prideful people and very ⁓ trusting, loyal, just hardworking people. And I think that culture and that atmosphere is very addicting. Like when you go out and talk to people in the field,

Seth Stevens (25:14)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Kirn (25:37)
or the shop or the lab or the road or wherever you're going. First of all, I'll pull the female card. I will be the first one to say somebody better come get me. I don't know where I'm going. I don't have the lights on my car. I will get stuck. I will get lost. ⁓ Someone help me out. And I've never not one time been like commented, criticized, talked down. You know, they're like, absolutely.

Seth Stevens (25:47)
you

We'll come get you. We'll show you. We'll help you.

Taylor Kirn (26:09)
So

it's just a very warm feeling.

Seth Stevens (26:14)
Mm-hmm.

That's good. I think it's important to kind of bring light to that because people might get scared not being in the industry by the statistics that are put out there and then kind of.

I don't know, get in their own head about it or whatever, but like you said, realistically, I mean, it's a group of people that you enjoy working with and you show up to work every day and you do your job and it's a collaborative environment and, you know, bad work environments could happen, whether it's male dominated, woman dominated, right? In any type of industry. So, ⁓ no, it's super cool. You are very famous in 2025.

Taylor Kirn (26:49)
Absolutely.

Seth Stevens (27:01)
Especially locally. I mean golly ⁓ You know you brought up Phil earlier and Since you got a sneak peek at the questions who was someone that made a difference in your career would you also land on Phil or? ⁓

Taylor Kirn (27:22)
I'm gonna have to send him this podcast. ⁓ Honestly, I would have to early on, I would definitely credit ⁓ Dr. Erin Fluegge She's definitely the person who kind of got my mindset thinking of business and what all I could do. She answered every text, answered every phone call after I graduated for like, what should I wear? What should I do? Like I'm in an environment where

I need to know what fork to use and what wine to order, which is very different when you're graduating college and joining the workforce. They don't teach you that. ⁓ So kind of getting started and getting comfortable. And then my HR career definitely, Phil. Yeah, he had a humor about him that was very... ⁓

Seth Stevens (28:01)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Taylor Kirn (28:17)
It was just very welcoming. You never felt like you were asking a stupid question. You never felt like you shouldn't ask that question. ⁓

He was just someone that knew when to check on you. And I think that that was very... ⁓ It helped me grow personally and professionally.

Seth Stevens (28:39)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. He's got a sixth sense. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. What's a common misperception that people have about HR outside of that you do all the hiring and firing since we've already...

Jordan Janet (28:59)
Do you get sick of that joke, like nobody wants to see you on a Monday or Friday? Yeah. Yeah. Because I hear it every time I see you on a Monday or Friday, somebody's like, oh God, don't be around HR on Monday or Friday.

Taylor Kirn (29:12)
Yeah, it's super tough to get used to. I remember, you know, in every job that you start, like you want to be liked and you want people to like the, like, be around you and like invite you to lunch and stuff like that. And like from the HR title, like that didn't happen for a very long time. Oh my gosh, like this is going to be really tough to get used to. I also remember when we first started doing corporate games.

Seth Stevens (29:31)
Yeah.

Taylor Kirn (29:41)
there was a lot of, I guess what you would call shop talk that was filtered because I was present and I was like, man, this is really tough. ⁓ I felt like it took a long time, but it's a two way street. And I think that's a really tough part about HR. Like I'm human.

Seth Stevens (29:46)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Kirn (30:04)
and like the HR police part is kind of hard to get through. ⁓ We're not always out to get... We may just show up and want to chat, but...

Seth Stevens (30:13)
Yeah

Yeah.

You just, feel like you have to be aware of conversations that you're having at a much, you know, almost at any level at a much earlier stage in your career than other roles or managers would have to, if that makes sense. almost all of our leadership team or senior managers, like you, it's not like we want to hide anything.

It's just like, you can't tell everybody everything. Yes. You know what I mean? But since you are working in HR and you have sensitive information about people and whatever, not by your choice, that's just the nature of your job. Like you're exposed to that requirement at the very beginning of your career. Yeah. Whereas you don't necessarily have to...

be following that if you're in any other role or part of the organization. I mean, you probably should, right? Maybe. Anyway. That was a random thought.

Taylor Kirn (31:29)
good way to put it.

Jordan Janet (31:33)
Where I was kind of randomly going was, our culture is evolving and I think a lot of that, and I say our culture, mean just society in general, but then also at Delta and in the construction industry, where I think a lot of that misconception of HR hires and fires people came from a little bit of like, not kind of like what you're talking about, but I think...

where HR used to kind of be, well, we can't really behave how we really behave around HR because that's who's going to fire us or get us in trouble for behaving that way. And now it's just kind of become, hey, look, that's what's acceptable. We're doing things the right way because it's the right thing to do, not because I think I can get away with it because HR is not listening right now. You know what I mean? And I think that's just a shift in culture that brings you more into...

one of the group as opposed to whereas HR of the past may have been kind of the police or the friction against everyday life conversation behavior at an organization. And that's just a matter of, you know, the times, right?

Seth Stevens (32:42)
Yeah, I would agree with that. And then having somebody that navigates that well. I think that's something that you do well. Correct. Is like build those relationships with people and ⁓ carry yourself well to where you're... People don't feel that way. Thanks.

Taylor Kirn (33:04)
Sure hope not.

It is all joking aside, it's hard. That building relationship piece can be very difficult, but it's also super beneficial. Like I would say not just for my self-serving purpose, but for any HR professional, like the more you know your people and what makes them tick and what they like and what they don't like and...

what they want to be when they grow up and where they're trying to take their career and what family struggles they're going with. Once you know all those things, it really helps to advocate for them when they're not in the room. ⁓ Which is a really difficult part sometimes for HR is you're essentially a glorified advising center for the people and the business. Like we don't actually make any like concrete decisions like...

Seth Stevens (33:50)
Mm-hmm

Taylor Kirn (33:56)
we advise to the best of our ability and hope that you're picking up what we're putting down. But at the end of the day, it's not us making those choices. ⁓ So yeah.

Seth Stevens (34:01)
Mm-hmm.

Jordan Janet (34:08)
What's interesting too to me is sometimes you have to have the necessary difficult conversations to facilitate that relationship, right? You get a lot of buy-in from the individuals even if you've had a difficult conversation with them when they realize that, this person is an advocate for me, even though this is a difficult conversation, they're going to go to bat for me because I'm trying to do things the right way, right? If that's the case and hopefully it usually is. ⁓ But then that kind of...

That wins you a lot of respect and that intimate, more intimate relationship and understanding of each other when that's all said and done, right? mean, that's automatic buy-in, which is cool.

You kind have to wrestle in the mud a little bit to get that mutual respect and it happens. It happens very organically that way. And I think that's an interesting aspect to your department's role overall.

Taylor Kirn (34:56)
Right.

Seth Stevens (35:06)
Would you say that's one of the ways, you know, talking about the advising part of it to both parties, you think, would you say that's the main way that you provide value to the leadership team or how do you?

Perceive that you do that. What do you think about when you're coming to the table? Does that make sense?

Taylor Kirn (35:33)
Yeah. I've had to really... So I think a lot of times from the HR perspective, like you're so caught up in the people that sometimes you forget about the business or sometimes you're so caught up in the business that forget about the people. there's so many things being thrown at you from every different aspect and depending on what project you're working on or how good the business is doing or all those individual conversations. ⁓

I think the benefit is to stay collaborative. And I think because we're kind of an advising center, like we're forced to naturally think collaborative. Like I hardly ever send anything out without running it by someone. ⁓ I don't make decisions unless I bring someone into the loop. I don't, you know, go out and do training or, you know, things like that without consulting someone. ⁓ So I think that collaborative approach

Seth Stevens (36:17)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Kirn (36:32)
is an advantage.

Seth Stevens (36:34)
Yeah, for sure. I think the majority of our leadership team operates that way, or at least strives to operate that way. ⁓ it makes it a lot more fun, I think. It makes it feel like everybody has more of a voice and a say in the decision making and we can credit that to you.

Taylor Kirn (37:00)
I don't take credit for it any means. I'm definitely not afraid anymore to ask a stupid question, which is...

Seth Stevens (37:06)
yeah, I don't, yeah. Yeah.

Taylor Kirn (37:08)
I think that collaborative space offers that environment. We're all people around a table, we're all humans, we all come from different backgrounds and we do different things for a living, but for the best interest of our people in our company, I think that collaboration's super helpful.

Seth Stevens (37:12)
for sure.

And I think everybody genuinely wants everybody at the table to understand what we're talking about. So everybody is very supportive and helpful with answering questions and there is no dumb question to ask because the better that we can all collaboratively work on these decisions or the business, the better off we're going to be, right? So, I mean, ⁓ very thankful for the leadership team that we have built right now, for sure.

⁓ and I think that's a key piece and working through, you know, the future of where we're going for sure. ⁓ okay. Change gears just a tad. What sort of metrics do you use or look at in HR?

Taylor Kirn (38:06)
I

So I think it is way more about like problem solving than it is just like having general metrics. So like if you're, you know, talking HR, you probably want to know like what your voluntary turnover is. You probably want to know how competitive you are in the market with salaries. You kind of want to know your retention rates like things like that.

Seth Stevens (38:49)
Bye.

Taylor Kirn (38:52)
A lot of times what I'm asked is to pull very specific information and that's very people driven or like project driven. like, you know, for example, if we, ⁓ you know, need to be looking at more of a competitive advantage for recruitment, then we're going to look into recruitment specific data. If it's ⁓ retention utilizing salary, then it's compensation driven.

Seth Stevens (38:59)
Mmm.

Taylor Kirn (39:22)
I don't just have any numbers floating around my brain.

Seth Stevens (39:26)
⁓

I think that makes a lot of sense that you're targeting it for whatever you're working on for sure. But a lot of it is like general metrics. Well, you know, I guess it's for anything even outside of HR is, okay, well, here's what numbers are telling us. And then the more important part is why is that happening? Or how do we make the number?

better or whatever. Cause like all those metrics and numbers are all lagging indicators, right? So it's like, what, if our turnover is high, why is our turnover high? What areas are turnover high in? How can we improve our turnover? And then we can like work, this kind of goes back to being collaborative in the leadership team is we can talk about this as a group. can work towards, Hey, let's just try tweaking.

one thing for a couple months and then like watch our numbers and like if they start to come down and you're like, well, maybe that worked or whatever, right? Is that fair? Yeah. Okay. Perfectly put. Okay. All right. But no, I think, you know, that makes sense. Like generally, you know, if you were going to present numbers to...

the general business leadership team, it's going to be turnover numbers, maybe recruitment numbers, ⁓ compensations a little more, like it's not necessarily general every month, but when we get into certain times of the year it is and, you know, are we being competitive, that kind of thing. So that's cool. ⁓

So you really like the role that you're in now and what you're doing. What would be the ideal future for you?

Where do you wanna go? What do you wanna be when you grow up?

Taylor Kirn (41:30)
I love that question. And when you ask it, people are like, what? What do mean when I grow up? mean, everyone's got something that they want to do. I really think the next step for me is director.

Seth Stevens (41:41)
Yeah.

Taylor Kirn (41:44)
That's what I see. That's what I would like to work towards, I think. ⁓

in any position that you're at, you kind of want to make sure that you've got one or two more steps. Because if you don't, then you need to find a new road.

Seth Stevens (42:03)
Well put, HR.

Taylor Kirn (42:05)
unintended.

Seth Stevens (42:06)
So do you find that that scares you, excites you both?

Taylor Kirn (42:19)
Both for sure, yeah. I think ⁓ those who know me know I don't do change well, which is hysterical for an HR professional.

Seth Stevens (42:30)
Hence why I sent you this stuff ahead of time.

Taylor Kirn (42:33)
Yeah.

I think what I've noticed, and this is very probably blanket statement for any top executive or leadership position, is the higher you go, the more critical conversation, crucial conversation, high impact decision making, ⁓ you kind of lose a little bit more and more and more of that daily block and tackle.

Seth Stevens (43:00)
Mm-hmm. ⁓

Taylor Kirn (43:01)
Even

though I didn't love that admin position, I'm so glad that I had that experience of bringing people on, recruiting people, knowing the system, knowing how it all worked so that I could fully understand the full scope for whoever came in behind me. And now I understand that piece. Same thing with the generalists. Like when you're dealing with ⁓ training and development and performance reviews and compensation and...

Seth Stevens (43:17)
Hmm.

Taylor Kirn (43:29)
Benefits, my gosh, benefits world is huge. You need to know enough of that to move to the next level. But the further you get away, the more you kind of forget, right? So what scares me is that I don't want to make it so far where I kind of lose touch with like the block and tackle piece. ⁓ And I think just taking on more responsibility can be tough.

Seth Stevens (43:36)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm

for sure

Taylor Kirn (44:00)
I'd be open to it.

Jordan Janet (44:02)
was listening to a leadership podcast and he was kind of talking about the career progression of an individual like that. And a little bit kind of what you were talking about, know, he was emphasizing that the further you make it in your career, the more you shift to lean on the wisdom and the experiences that you've had.

the reflection on those experiences. so kind of shifting into more of, know, kind of like what you're talking about now. Are you getting away from those, what you're calling block and tackle tasks? Yes, sure. ⁓ But, know, maybe you're now, the further you get into your career and the more experience we all get, maybe you're more geared towards.

those decisions that you're in, the things, the responsibilities that you're handling now, as opposed to the block and tackle stuff. And at the same time, you can now advise those that handle more that block and tackle stuff. And so it's, don't know, it just made sense to me that, you know, as your career progresses, you know, you're not doing the high energy and like Seth, you described earlier, the adrenaline hit.

tasks that maybe an HR professional lives in, especially in those first few years of experience, right? But you can now, with the wisdom and experiences that you've had, can guide those that are doing that. And maybe they're more geared for that because maybe they're younger, they're fresher, that's what they're in this for right now, right? ⁓ Is to live those experiences. And you've done that. you can now...

help guide those through those decisions. think that's pretty, I think, I know, I always find it interesting that it totally aligns with people as we talk about their career progression and what's next, where did you come from, where are at now, what's next. It almost always aligns, which I think is interesting.

Seth Stevens (45:55)
Yeah, that I had listened to one several months ago, I guess, at this point, but talking about, there's almost like a chemical reaction and stuff that happens in your brain. Maybe this was something you were kind of talking about too, Jordan, but there's like a lot of actual chemical science behind your brain and like shifting from a doer to a teacher.

And so like in a lot more of those roles you, I think you're perceived as making more decisions, but you can really play that as advising and teaching. And like to keep your mental health as healthy as it can be, you almost have to embrace that new role as a teacher and you can't be, you're just like not...

made up naturally to be a 25 year old doer anymore. With the stamina to just keep going and not sleep at night and you know, whatever. So it's interesting. I love that stuff, but okay. So

there's a question for you that was left. If you were back at age 25, what would you tell yourself?

Taylor Kirn (47:27)
If I was back at 25, I would tell myself to be more confident asking more questions.

Seth Stevens (47:36)
Hmm. Yeah. That's a good one.

Taylor Kirn (47:40)
I was very hesitant to ask questions because I thought that that was sharing that you clearly didn't know the answer. ⁓ And being more confident and saying like, can you explain that? Or I'm not following, which I do really well now. I have no problem saying, I'm sorry. What are we talking about? Or that doesn't make sense. Can you help me? ⁓ If I would have started that...

thought process of confidence back at 25. I probably would be a lot further ahead now, but yeah, I think that's a good thought process.

Seth Stevens (48:18)
Yeah, for sure. that's really showing vulnerability, I think, and you can respect it more now where we are, like having one, just being older, matured more, and two, having experience in the business and sitting in the seats we are now where you want people to clarify if they don't understand and stuff like that. it...

made me think of I'm reading the culture code right now, which is kind of all about like, ⁓

successful companies and groups that did some pretty awesome things. And a lot of it was they had great cultures and a lot of it is built around trust, which comes from creating safety and sharing vulnerabilities so that everybody feels like they know each other and can fully trust each other. You're not like stepping on each other's toes and stuff like that. And, anyway, you saying that.

made me connect it to sharing vulnerability, which, you know, when you're in your 20s, you assume that you're a rock star and you can't show any weakness, Typically. So, anyway. Okay. ⁓ Now to your turn to leave a question for the next guest.

Taylor Kirn (49:46)
My question for the next guest would be...

If you weren't in the business that you're in today, what business would you be in?

Jordan Janet (50:01)
Like that.

Seth Stevens (50:04)
Okay.

Taylor Kirn (50:06)
So, side story, I have been mentored by Mandy Chaffin, Director of HR for a bit. And she came from like operations. And I just think that's super fascinating. Like how did you switch from operations to HR? And she's helped a lot in kind of that thought process and mindset of like,

just because you're in one thing doesn't mean you can't shift or doesn't mean that you can't go out and learn. Like she helped me really get more comfortable with going out to the quarry and riding in the haul trucks or going out onto the road. And I shoveled asphalt for the first time. Was it last year or the year before? And I was not, I did not think that it was going to be easy, but I did not.

I wouldn't be able to pick the shovel up after I put it in the So I had a big awakening that day. And it's just that thought process of like...

Seth Stevens (51:10)
What?

Taylor Kirn (51:20)
Where would you be if you weren't where you are? And just kind of being open to try new thing.

Seth Stevens (51:22)
today.

That's cool. I love it. Love it.

Seth Stevens (51:33)
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