Step Up Without Stumbling: How to Succeed in Role Transitions

In this episode of On The Surface, hosts Seth Stevens and Jordan Janet dig into what it takes to transition roles successfully. Drawing on recent role changes and real-world examples, they unpack why leadership transitions matter, how “sink-or-swim” cultures set people up to fail, and what smart companies do instead: build structured support, training, and clear timeline plans. Seth and Jordan cover the tricky shift from peer to manager, the value of functional mobility, and the mindset pivot from “doing the work” to leading the work. They also explore imposter syndrome, why emotional intelligence is becoming the decisive edge in the age of AI, and how focusing on your strengths (think CliftonStrengths) helps you lead with confidence.

You’ll hear practical tactics you can use today: intentional 1:1s, regular team cadences, purposeful performance reviews, and creating trust through listening first and changing later. The takeaway? Own your career—speak your ambitions out loud, map your first wins, and communicate, communicate, communicate. If you’re prepping for a promotion or guiding one on your team, this conversation will help you make the transition seamless—for you, your people, and the business.

Thanks for listening!

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Transcript

*Automatically generated by AI*

Seth Stevens (00:05)
Welcome back to On The Surface, the go-to podcast for heavy construction and general business. I am Seth Stevens. I'm here with Jordan Janet.

Jordan Janet (00:16)
Hello.

Seth Stevens (00:17)
Today, we're shooting for seamless transitions, whether it be from our intro to our conversation or from one business role to another. That was bad.

Jordan Janet (00:29)
It's a dad joke thrown in there even without Spach present.

Seth Stevens (00:32)
Yeah, that's true. That's true. We miss him.

Jordan Janet (00:36)
But that's what we're here to talk about today is ⁓ what it's like, how it can be done, and why they are important, meaning moving up the ladder, right?

Seth Stevens (00:48)
Right. Yeah. I mean, it's very important to the business as a whole and the leadership team if people can transition successfully. I mean, we've mentioned it a couple of times on earlier podcast episodes that you've done it within the past eight months or so. That's right. We're going to be doing it on a couple of other roles like replacing regional managers and things like that. And it's very important for those higher

⁓ impact roles to, to kind of get, gain the lay of the land and, and, ⁓ do it efficiently rather than poorly. I tried to look up some notes beforehand and it, there's a stat ish that actually says nearly half of leadership transitions fail or underperform.

costing organizations millions and damaging morale, which I could believe that. I don't know that like half of ours have gone wrong, but I've seen them not go well.

Jordan Janet (01:50)
Yeah, I wouldn't say that we experienced that. We're not that bad. But I do think it's important for these to be successful for a lot of reasons and some of them you touched on. Company morale, the success of the company. I mean, obviously you have to have someone in a leadership role doing a good job for the company to succeed just on the surface, right?

Pun intended. That was not intended, actually. I'm sorry. Apologize for that one. But also, as far as morale, if people feel like there's no opportunity because they see no examples of people moving up and having success and doing so within the organization, they're going to feel like they've got nowhere to go and they're going to leave. So you're going to miss a bunch of talent. ⁓ Costing organizations millions, I that would be, you know, I've heard

I've heard numbers thrown around through our HR department before what it costs to bring someone from outside or what it even costs someone to be promoted and then not work out. One of the stats I think you and I read, she said 200 % of that individual's salary. So, I mean, that's a very real number that can be felt years time.

Seth Stevens (03:00)
Yeah. ⁓

yeah.

No. Yeah. I mean, if you start talking about executive positions and stuff, 200 % of their salary is a lot of money for show. Absolutely. Go ahead.

Jordan Janet (03:14)
Absolutely.

I was just going say, just think all of those things speak to the importance of getting this right.

Seth Stevens (03:26)
Yeah. What ways do you think it goes poorly or can go poorly?

Jordan Janet (03:32)
So this is something that I do think ⁓ that we overlook or sometimes struggle with from time to time. And that is, you know, a lack of support. I think we come from a culture of sink or swim mentality. We throw somebody in a role and if they got what it takes, they're going to make it. And if they don't, they won't. And, you know, I think that's ⁓

Seth Stevens (03:47)
Yeah.

Jordan Janet (03:57)
You know, I don't know, that's looking at it a little shallow, I think. I think there's opportunity to develop people to be successful in those roles. But the support has to be there. They've got to have leadership support. They have to have peer support. ⁓ They have to have the resources they need, the education, the knowledge, ⁓ that support of the leadership. Those are all resources that an individual needs to succeed at their role. ⁓

Seth Stevens (04:25)
Yeah.

Jordan Janet (04:26)
And whenever you're changing roles, there's obviously things to learn. You you can only get so much by osmosis or by watching. You're going to have to jump in and do, but having the support to do so and having the training and the knowledge and those resources I was talking about, think definitely that's something that we have overlooked from time to time, I feel like.

Seth Stevens (04:51)
sure. I think everybody, I don't think that's just us. think companies have a natural tendency to do that with internal promotions and to your point, you should have just a structured of a learning platform and plan as if you were hiring externally because the person's never been in that position before. And honestly, it could be...

more difficult than hiring external because in a lot of situations you're swapping from a colleague or a peer to now a manager of a of that team and in some instances it's the team that you were already working on

Jordan Janet (05:34)
Right. That can be a strain. I also believe that there's probably an element of complacency, especially if you're moving up in kind of the track that you've been quote unquote growing up

and honestly, I think we back the conversation up even before that, because I think a lot of people, just from conversations I've had with individuals in the organization throughout my career, sometimes people don't understand how they get on the radar. Like, do I become the person of conversation whenever there's a role that needs to be filled?

I do think there are things that you can do.

⁓ to make sure that you are seen as a contender for those future roles. ⁓ One, you just got to be confident. You have to ask. You got to talk about it. Talk about it with your supervisor. Talk about it with your mentor. If you have a mentor, talk to them about it. If you don't have a mentor, I recommend go find you one,

When you're talking about it with your supervisor, especially at performance reviews, ⁓ do not be afraid to approach the things that you need to develop to make yourself a potential candidate for that next step up. And then in examples like myself, some tracks there's a very clear ladder to climb and

it can happen regularly for the right individual, right? Other tracks, that might be a little tougher. And if you are open to, what do they call it in your performance evaluation, functional mobility. So if you're open to functional mobility, make sure to make that known, know, check that box and highlight the skill sets that you have that could play a benefit in another function. And also work on developing the skill sets that

Seth Stevens (07:10)
Yeah, function on mobility.

Jordan Janet (07:27)
you need to develop that could serve another function.

Again, because I changed function so drastically, I think I had to follow just by no, I had no choice organically, I had to follow the recommended path of, okay, now what do you do when you get that opportunity? And it starts with listening, Listening and learning who your people are, what are the challenges they're up against? What is your department?

Seth Stevens (07:34)
Yeah.

Jordan Janet (07:54)
What function does it serve? What's the purpose of the department that you're a part of? ⁓ Figuring out where those struggles and challenges are and all the while building relationships and gaining trust. Now, I think that can happen a lot quicker than it does for me. Sometimes that's because I'm hard on myself and I'm impatient and I want things to happen quicker than maybe they might organically. ⁓ But I do think you set yourself a plan.

When you get offered a position like that and you get ready to tackle it, get organized about it. Map out a plan and say, you know, this is my first step. I'm going to learn what we are about. I'm going to learn what our challenges are. And I'm going to build relationships with my team and build trust within my team. So I think that's a good first step.

Seth Stevens (08:45)
Yep.

Yeah, yeah. Don't go in trying to make waves or change anything. You don't even know the situation at hand. In any way that the situation has been explained to you before now is somebody else's point of view. It's not you being in that role. you you haven't, like you said, you haven't built that trust with your team and...

and all of that. So yeah, I fully agree. I've witnessed the same thing, you know, when I've transitioned roles, just spending the first set amount of time getting to know people, building those relationships, listening and assessing the situation, all that kind of stuff goes a long way. And, you know, I don't remember specific articles or posts or books or anything, but I do remember more than one time, you know, reading

⁓ other big time executives and stuff that have changed roles and they'll say like their first year they don't do anything until they really understand the situation, the business, the people, and then you're able to develop a pretty organized game plan moving forward. So yeah, how long do you feel like that has taken you?

Or are you still in it? I mean, I guess that never really ends, but when do you feel comfortable enough to understand the situation and then start to implement some of your processes? I wouldn't even necessarily say change, it's just what you'd like to see.

Jordan Janet (10:26)
I mean, everybody's got their own flavor of style, right? When it comes to managing, leading business strategy, right? I mean, there's a lot of different ways to slice that and how to go about it. So yeah, you're right. I have also read, heard a lot of different timeframes. You know, when I said, you know, lay out a plan, you know, one thing that you and I both looked at said, make it a 30, 60, 90 day plan. I mean,

It took me every bit of 90 days just to start learning the nuances of the challenges and the relationships and the people and the personalities and all the while trying to figure out the function of the team that I was now a part of.

Seth Stevens (10:58)
Yeah.

Let's not discount that if you're an internal promotion, you're also still dealing with the your old

Jordan Janet (11:20)
That's true, too. Yeah, we didn't even touch that. Yeah Because there is an element of that as well. Yeah, and that leans back on support like I talked about right You definitely don't want to whoever's back filling your role You don't want to leave them unsupported because you want them to succeed if you ever want that, you know offloaded You definitely want that person to succeed, correct? So developing that person's part of your transition role as well But yeah for me in particular, I think I'm in

Seth Stevens (11:32)
Right.

Yeah.

Yeah

Jordan Janet (11:50)
month eight and ⁓ still feeling like I'm learning. ⁓ I am only just now beginning to feel like I've got some

Now I feel like I'm armed with enough skill and knowledge to actually contribute to the team some, you know, but still have a long way to go. So that, you know, that one year is not wild to me. And even though, and I'm not an executive of E. That's not me. That's not my role. That's not my position that I'm in. But, you know, at the same time, yeah, could an executive take more than a year? Absolutely. Because here I am as a sales manager feeling like...

I mean, it's going to take a year before I've really got the reins of this thing. ⁓

Seth Stevens (12:35)
Yeah.

Realistically, is complex. Roles are complex.

Jordan Janet (12:41)
Yeah, and the old thing we used to say whenever I was heavily involved in culture change was, big ships turn slow. It takes a lot. And I'm not making a lot of turns and changes per se, but ⁓ listening, building relationships, building the trust, learning the role, ⁓ and then figuring out my own flavor of style of leadership and how it would apply to our team and our function.

Seth Stevens (13:11)
Did you have like a...

we're talking about like a plan. Did you have one kind of organized that you wanted to follow, like meeting with people on a regular cadence or, ⁓ you know, you had already mentioned like, well, you mentioned performance reviews in a different sense, but we're at the end of the year, we're kind of going through all that stuff. It's a great time to like give each other feedback, you know, give feedback to employees, but also welcome feedback to yourself.

make sure that everybody's on the same page and communicate, you know, expectations and style and the way that you envision the team working and stuff like that. So were there, you know, specifics that you did that helped you?

Jordan Janet (13:59)
Yeah, a big piece of that, I think, is just listening. I was purposeful about having at least an initial conversation with each member of my team one-on-one, spending some one-on-one time with them pretty quickly out of the gate. And I say all this and I know they're listening and probably thinking that I didn't do it justice, but ⁓ there was intention behind it and I did make an attempt, right? And it's going well, so I got to think that...

in my opinion, from my outlook. And I have asked for some feedback from those guys and I've asked for some feedback from my manager. And ⁓ I do think that we're off to a good start. We're pointed in the right trajectory as I keep saying. We've got the right trajectory. Now it's just a matter of putting in the work and headed that way. But yes, the one-on-one conversations initially, the one-on-one time spent initially.

Seth Stevens (14:35)
Yeah.

yeah.

Jordan Janet (14:53)
We did a performance evaluation pretty early out of the gate, even though it wasn't an end of the year thing. Now we're going to try to make those more regular in 26. Then even just two in 25, we're going to try to do more than that in 26. We try to meet as a team weekly. And sometimes that's in person, sometimes that's virtual. And then we try to have some in-person meetings. would like to have, and I would recommend having those on a scheduled.

Seth Stevens (15:07)
Yep.

Jordan Janet (15:22)
regular timeframe. But the dynamics of our role and our world in 2025, we didn't accomplish that to what I would have liked. getting together on a regular basis now that the time that we do spend together, I think there's also some purpose behind that as well. We definitely spend some time on developing, you know, ourselves and each other. We spend some time talking about

What are you going to go out and get? What is your tactical goal for the next week, for the next seven days? We unpack our successes and our strains. Even though we've talked all week long about all of them anyway, ⁓ once a week we kind of stop and say, what went on this week? How did it go? And then what are we going to tackle this next week? ⁓ And then there's some fellowship in there as well. And that happens organically, but sometimes it's planned too.

Seth Stevens (16:21)
Yeah

Jordan Janet (16:22)
In fact, shout out to Clayton this last week, He brought a piece of that to the meeting himself. So he had heard from a mentor trainer of his some ideas on, know, unpacking the year of 2025 and looking ahead to 2026. And what's this year going to bring? You know, what are we going to work on? What are we... And there were some very pointed questions that he brought.

to guide that conversation. And so to me, kind of, I mean, that does all those things, right? You're working on unpacking what you've done. You're working on setting goals for 26. You're working on self-improvement because you're kind of internalizing how did things go? Where did I miss? What can I improve upon? What happened really well and how can I apply that to my success in 26? ⁓ So that was cool. That was a really good exercise and I'm happy that somebody

brought it to the team. wasn't something that I brought. So they see the value in that. That tells me they see the value in it. And they played along really well. For sure, yeah. jumped into it and dug in and ⁓ really thought about their answers and gave some real answers.

Seth Stevens (17:32)
Trust among the team too because you're doing that as a as a team together you're answering tough questions with self-reflection and and I have a lot of bonding in that

Jordan Janet (17:43)
me, the fact that ⁓ it was brought to me by a team member, to the team by a team member, not by me, and the fact that they dove right into it and did a great job at it shows that the trust is already there as well. So those are the kind of markers that I'm looking at to say, to gauge team culture because it's not, yes, the lagging indicators of course are important. ⁓ That's what business is about.

The business operates off of those lagging indicators. But sometimes those lagging indicators, ⁓ the success of those, you you really got to have culture, positive culture. You got to have trust. You got to have relationships. And so I look for those markers just to see what's the health of the team looking like. Because if you don't have that, you can hit some lagging indicators and look really well on paper, but it's not going to last. You know, your team's not going to stick around if you're not hitting those culture markers and...

Seth Stevens (18:25)
Yep.

Jordan Janet (18:41)
developing a sense of belonging and ownership. So I think being purposeful about how you can establish that along with being tactical and organized about your lagging indicators and your performance reaches.

Seth Stevens (18:44)
Yep.

Yeah, that's starting to get into some... I mean, there are performance indicators and all of that, but what you're talking about with culture and trust and safety and... all gets into like intangible things that you can't measure, right? Absolutely. And so this is more like...

Maybe some mindset stuff or maybe, I don't know, just shifts in how you're thinking, right? So what types of shifts have you had to make from like during your transition?

Jordan Janet (19:30)
So that's what's interesting and you use the word safety. ⁓ I really developed that skill as a safety professional because as a safety professional, you're going out into the field and you're talking about, you're always having uncomfortable conversations. Even if it's a positive conversation, it's uncomfortable because you're talking about things that people don't typically talk about. You're giving accolades to people that oftentimes aren't looking for accolades and that

Aspect, know, especially about operating safely and doing safe work and if you're not having a positive conversation You're having a coaching conversation about where we missed the mark on safety. So You know developing that skill set was something that I kind of did as a safety professional and You I don't want to sound like a broken record But I do think that it hinges on building a relationship of trust And so they have to see me as somebody that they trust. So when I come to them with either

positive recognition or a coaching opportunity, they know it's sincere. They feel that it's sincere, right? And they trust me with it. And so we've got, you know, it's a two way conversation. I can get some feedback from them. We can talk through it. We can unpack it and look at it in a real, you know, from a real situation, right? I mean, let's look at this in real life for what it is and figure out how to best move forward. Or, you know, again, if it's positive recognition.

I think that trusting relationship makes it more real, makes it more sincere. Does that answer your question?

Seth Stevens (21:03)
Yeah, for sure. That's the word I'm for.

Kind of. So you're talking about like how you go about creating that, right? And you're used to it. But you went from a sole contributor type of role. mean, you're tied in with everybody and you're having to build those relationships with them. And in a sense, you're responsible for everybody from a safety perspective. But now you're going from

that type of role to a role where you have, I mean realistically very little contribution yourself, right? It comes from your team and you're regularly responsible for the same group of people and you can easily become overloaded because you're getting questions from your employees and you're getting pressure and questions from your managers above you. So what, ⁓

What types of shifts have you made, whether that be processes or mentality shifts?

Jordan Janet (22:06)
I think, well, for one, I still think, and maybe it's just the way my brain works, there's still so many parallels. Even as you just described it, you're still doing a lot of that same stuff as a safety professional as you are leading any team, whether it's in sales, accounting, finance, whatever. But there has been a recognized shift at the same time. It's different. ⁓ You know, there are things, there is a...

Seth Stevens (22:13)
Yeah,

I totally agree.

Jordan Janet (22:34)
greater sense of direct responsibility now that you have a team that you're supposed to be managing and leading I think I've always seen myself even as as far back as I can remember I've always seen myself as a leader. And I think if you're able this is gonna sound kind of weird probably but if you're able to see yourself as a leader You're probably gonna live it out, right?

Seth Stevens (22:55)
Yeah.

Jordan Janet (22:56)
And so for whatever reason, organically, ⁓ as a young person, I started seeing myself as a leader. And so I took that role. ⁓ I oftentimes still find myself doing that. You know, it bothers me if I'm in a situation and I don't see somebody taking the reins on a team. I'm like, if you don't, I'm going to do this. ⁓

Seth Stevens (23:13)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. A

lot of people feel fine in that situation, just say no, but other people freak out because it makes you feel very uncomfortable. I'm the same way, but I just...

Jordan Janet (23:25)
Bothers

me to the point where I try to be conscientious of it and I'm like, this time I'm gonna sit back and not do it so I'm not that guy, you know?

Seth Stevens (23:34)
Yeah, sorry I hit and erupted.

Jordan Janet (23:36)
No,

it's good. ⁓ So I think, you know, being, seeing yourself as a leader, acting as a leader, that's gonna build yourself some success ⁓ on both directions, right? Rather it's in any direction is what I mean. But then, you know, when I did change from safety to my current role as sales manager and actually managing and leading an assigned team, now that does feel a little more personal.

Seth Stevens (23:51)
Yeah.

Jordan Janet (24:05)
Right? ⁓ It does build the pressure a little bit, but I think if you lean on a structure and a plan, at least for me, for me personally, that's what helps. If you lay out a structure, and I guess it's multiple things, right? Lay out a structure and you lean on that and you try to follow that ⁓ rather than just being organized. Your daily calendar, your weekly calendar, your quarterly, monthly, annual.

Lay out your goals and is it going to change? Absolutely. So adjust it accordingly as you go. Right. So that's going to help kind of reduce some of that. Having regular conversations with as many people as you can because you you want the information so that when somebody comes to me and asks for it, I've got it ready to go. Right. So having multiple conversations to keep your finger on the pulse of the health of your team and the aspect of the business that you're managing.

Seth Stevens (25:01)
Yeah.

You were talking about like being prepared and organized and you have confidence in yourself as a leader because you envision yourself that way. Do you feel like that helps you with any feelings of imposter syndrome?

Jordan Janet (25:20)
Yeah, guess, ⁓ imposter, I'm in a weird spot with that. I'm in a weird spot because I don't, I guess I don't see myself. I see myself as a leader. ⁓ as I said, I always have, so I'm comfortable with that already. ⁓ but I don't see myself necessarily as, so high up on the hierarchy ladder that I shouldn't be there.

Seth Stevens (25:22)
Or do you still feel it?

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

Jordan Janet (25:49)
You know what I mean? So, you know, maybe somebody, maybe other people are looking at me like, what the heck is that guy doing? He shouldn't be that high up in the organization. Maybe so, but I don't even, I don't feel that about myself. You know, don't feel like I'm kind of...

Seth Stevens (25:50)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I think that probably comes from having those systems in place to make you feel confident because I think it's very typical for people to feel that when you walk into a new role and you go from being the expert in your field and knowing everything, especially if you spent eight years in safety and then you come into a field where technically you know nothing but...

you know how to lead people and build relationships and stuff like that. And a lot of leadership and management is that, right? So, you know, we've talked about this in previous episodes about what we look for in people. And I think what we look for in leadership roles and especially now going further into... ⁓

the future with AI and stuff is we're looking for a lot of emotional intelligence out of people. you know, IQ is like your regular, factual knowledge and intelligence, and that is quickly going away from AI and everything. ⁓ Emotional intelligence is becoming a bigger and bigger thing, and that's basically the ability to navigate situations, to build relationships, to build trust, to understand

how people are reacting to situations, why they may react that way, And I think it's very, ⁓ just like I said, very important in leadership roles and developing teams.

Jordan Janet (27:32)
So I want to, what your comments ⁓ bring up a few points in my mind too. ⁓ First off, my experience is my experience. And I totally acknowledge that, you know, it's very unique. It's unique to me. It's unique. know, not a lot of people make these weird, you know, functional transitions like I have. So I don't want to, you know, invalidate what anybody else feels making these, you know, climbs up.

Seth Stevens (27:38)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jordan Janet (28:00)
the quote unquote ladder. So that's the first thing I wanted to say. And then the second thing I wanted to say is, and this is a teaser for a hopeful future episode, if we get the opportunity to sit down and talk with Nick about CliftonStrengths. ⁓ think one interesting piece of having conversations revolving around CliftonStrengths is kind of a, it's been a culture change for me personally, because for so long I focused on

What are my shortcomings and how can I improve upon those? How can I further develop the things that I'm not that great at? Why not focus on the things that you are?

Seth Stevens (28:38)
good at. Yeah, you're wholly ignoring your strengths at that point.

Jordan Janet (28:41)
Leverage what you're good at. Leverage your skill set. Because they can be applicable to so many different things. ⁓ just, you know, knowing what you're good at and figuring out how that applies to whatever role you're in today and whatever role you're after in the future. I think those were two things that were bouncing around in my empty head while you were talking.

Seth Stevens (28:49)
Yep.

Thanks for listening. Nice. No, think that's great. I think it makes sense. And to your point, know, through regardless of any of this other information that we've talked about on transitioning roles, know, know your strengths, understand them and stick to your guns, right? And use those ⁓ and regardless of what role you're in.

Jordan Janet (29:32)
and build trust, build trust in relationships. business is about people. Business is about the lagging indicators and the numbers on the paper. How do you do that? You do it

Seth Stevens (29:41)
people.

True that. You got anything else you want to leave people with?

Jordan Janet (29:49)
really don't have.

Seth Stevens (29:51)
Yeah, you said empty brain. Okay, so we talked about taking your career into your own hands. Having those conversations with people, almost speaking it into existence, right? I think I've had those same types of experiences is I have an idea of what I want or maybe something I'm interested in. I make sure to talk to somebody about it and put it on their radar, right? Bring it to life. Yep. Having intentional plans through a transition. So

you know, regardless of what your timeline is, make sure that you have an idea of ⁓ what you're trying to accomplish and set many goals and quick wins for yourself. Build that trust all throughout the process and then just communicate, communicate, communicate, communicate and yeah, that's right. That's right. Cool. All right. Thanks,

Jordan Janet (30:40)
Don't stop listening.

Until next time.

Seth Stevens (30:48)
Yeah.

If you're not already following our show, please do. Also go ahead and rate it and leave a review wherever you're listening. Check us out on all social media platforms at Delta Companies and our website at delta cos.com.

Jordan Janet (31:05)
Thanks for listening. will see you all next week.