Lessons From Every Level: Zach Green’s Path to Executive Leadership

On this week’s On the Surface, Seth Stevens and Brad Marotti talk with Zach Green, Executive Vice President of Colas Inc., about his career journey and the leadership lessons he learned along the way. Zach shares how he grew from an entry level role in quality control at the Cape Girardeau Quarry to leading multiple business units across the country, and how accountability, mobility, and strong mentorship shaped his development.

He also discusses the challenges of managing managers, the importance of surrounding yourself with the right people, and how honest feedback helps leaders grow. The conversation covers work life balance, major transitions in his career, and the tough decisions that come with senior leadership.

Zach closes by looking ahead at the future of the industry, including technology, automation, workforce changes, and his upcoming role as Chair of NSSGA.

Thanks for listening!

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Transcript

*Automatically generated by AI*

Seth Stevens (00:05)
Welcome back to On the Surface, the go-to podcast for heavy construction and general business. I'm your host, Seth Stevens. And this week, Jordan and I welcome Zach Green, an executive vice president at Koloss, Inc. we discuss his career path along the way, memorable successes, challenges, and what may be in store for our industry in the future. Let's go.

Seth Stevens (00:33)
So we got Zach Green today. Zach, what's your position?

Zach Green (00:38)
I'm the executive vice president of Colas Inc.

Seth Stevens (00:41)
You know what? I'll follow that up with what does that mean?

Zach Green (00:44)
I mean,

that's a good question. ⁓ It means, that I look after several of our companies, I guess is what it means. So I report to John Harrington, our CEO. So, you know, for me, it's providing him with what's going on in the business and then also helping to push down, ⁓ you know, our vision and mission and alignment throughout the business, guess, is maybe how I'd describe it.

Seth Stevens (01:08)
Yep. So John is the CEO of Co-Ost USA. Right. And then so you're overseeing Reeves.

Zach Green (01:18)
Reeves Delta or Pennsylvania Group.

Seth Stevens (01:20)
Okay, yeah, yeah, makes sense. I think we kind of talked about it on the podcast before, like the landscape. ⁓ And so prior to this, well, can you just give us like career background for you? Like what your path has been like?

Zach Green (01:35)
Sure.

So I started out of college in 1999. And the reason I started here was my girlfriend, Kelly, wife now was completing her civil engineering degree. She had two years left. And so we both went to SIU Carbondale, which is about an hour and a half from here.

in Cape Girardeau. So ⁓ we decided we were going to move somewhere halfway in between here and there, because I found a career here at Delta or job maybe is what I would describe it at that time. And our plan was that, you know, she would finish school and we figure out what we want to do after that, which, you know, at that time in our mind meant probably, I don't know, moving somewhere else. We didn't really have plans to stay in the Midwest.

So I started working with Delta at our Cape Girardeau Quarry, started in quality. So I took over our quality control program, quality management program at that time, ⁓ and really kind of built that program because it was kind of way back when, you know, the quality control and quality assurance was like just kind of forming, I guess, with MoDOT and all that. So built their program there and that's kind of how I learned the aggregate business.

Seth Stevens (02:46)
I had no idea that you did that. Yeah. So that was for Missouri and mainly for aggregate. For. Okay. ⁓ I see. Okay.

Zach Green (02:53)
at Cape Shore. One location.

And my title was like, mine engineer, quality manager or something like that. So I was doing that and then also learning like the business or not even, I wouldn't call it the business, like the operations of the core. So I spent a lot of time with like the, you know, the maintenance crews and the operations crews and, you know, learning like where we were digging in the pit and how that affected our quality on our products, how to adjust all the gates on the plants.

⁓ crusher settings, all that stuff that's really critical to having a good quality product. And then ⁓ trying to understand like if we made this screen change, how that affected gradation, or if we flipped this gate out of the product and it did this to the gradation, so all that stuff. Which was great because coming out of school, you think you know everything and you don't know anything. ⁓

Seth Stevens (03:45)
You know nothing.

Yeah. ⁓

Zach Green (03:48)
So

it was great to learn the business through that. And then, you know, did that for a period of time and then moved into like a foreman level position at the quarry where I was, you know, over the cruise. And at that time we had three different, three different union crafts down there. had operators, laborers and teamsters. And so that was my first exposure to like unionized labor. And you know, everybody had like, you know, work types, right? Like the teamsters couldn't get out of their truck and go operate.

Jordan (04:15)
or

Zach Green (04:16)
Well, I mean, I that was a foreign concept to me, right? I grew up with my dad building houses and you did whatever needed to be done. If you were roofing one day, that's what you're doing or cleaning up or whatever. So that was interesting to figure out and navigate. And then, ⁓ you know, then just the business part of it too. ⁓ so, you know, more exposure to like where we sold product to, right. And who we're competing with and all that.

Seth Stevens (04:26)
Yup.

Zach Green (04:40)
And so did that for a couple of years and then became quarry manager down there at Cape. And, ⁓ you know, in hindsight, it was probably too early for me to take that job because that quarry is a, is a beast still has today. And, ⁓ you know, I was a young kid that, didn't really have the experience. I probably should have to run that operation, but. You know, I did and, ⁓ you know, did okay, ⁓ you know, managed through it, but it was a lot.

Jordan (04:53)
Mm-hmm.

Zach Green (05:08)
And then I got the opportunity to move on to something else. And was ⁓ engineering project manager, I think is what they called it. And so then I was doing like, mind planning for all of our quarries that we had. So Williamsville here, ⁓ Brown, Sand & Gravel wasn't Dexter at that time. ⁓ We didn't have the Clinton quarry yet. And Southern Illinois Stone.

Jordan (05:12)
.

Zach Green (05:30)
So I was kind of doing what Eli does, guess, today, like mind planning stuff, but then also got exposure to capital investment. We needed to upgrade this plant. so I was scoping out what the project was, what we needed to buy, why, doing the ROI on the business plan and starting to do that. And that kind of led me into more of equipment. So I did that for a few years and then got the opportunity to go into equipment management.

So I started in that role under Stephen Bond. He was our equipment manager at the time. And he kind of got me exposure to the ready mix operations, to the hot mix, to the construction crews. And that's where I really started to learn like the rest of our business, the breadth of the business beyond aggregates. And, you know, kind of the same principles like return on investment, why we're going to invest here, ⁓ efficiency of operations, that kind of thing. And

Seth Stevens (06:13)
Yep.

Zach Green (06:25)
did that for a ⁓ short period of time as Stephen's assistant and came, I remember coming into work one day and like his office was cleaned out. I'm like, what's going on? So I called Stephen. He's like, I quit, I'm done. It's all yours. You've got, you've got everything you need. You're, you're, you're perfectly capable of doing the job. I'm like, what the heck's going on? So.

Seth Stevens (06:45)
Okay.

Zach Green (06:47)
took it over, you know, talked to Rick Newberg, who was the president at the time, and you know, helped me, he helped me through it, it was fine. ⁓ so anyway, it was a fun role to have. I enjoyed it a lot working with the equipment managers and learning the business, it was good. And then I did that for, everything's kind of a few years, I did that for a few years and then got the opportunity to be a regional manager over the aggris. So Jerry Bushman had come here as vice president.

Seth Stevens (06:57)
Yeah

Zach Green (07:12)
He wasn't happy with what was going on in our aggregate group. I was helping them, you know, through the equipment part, you know, kind of get it where it needed to go. And one day he said, you know, why don't you take that job? And I'm like, I don't know. I haven't really thought about it. And he said, I think you do good in that job. I want you to take it. I'm like, okay, yeah, I'll do it. So I got the aggregate group and, you know, it was kind of a mess at the time. And then started putting the right people in the right places.

I think that was, thinking back, that's probably my first kind of exposure to managing managers. Before that, was like managing people and then an equipment job, was more about influencing people because you really didn't have anybody under you. And so that was interesting. It was good. I was ready for that job. And I started putting the right managers in place. We started getting the right processes in place.

Seth Stevens (07:55)
Yes. Sure.

Zach Green (08:09)
and really started to get traction and turn it around. And it was fun, you know, because we were able to see people succeed. They were doing well. The business was doing well. And so it was a lot of fun. But after four years, I was kind of ready for the next challenge. So, you know, at that point, everything had been like a three year cycle or something. And so when year three got there, it was like, okay, I kind of got this. What's next?

And so was year four and I was with George Alse, who was the president of Colossus at the time. And we were at a budget meeting and we had our meeting and whatever and we were having dinner that night. And George was like, what are you going to do with your career? You're running this aggregate group and you seem to be stuck in Missouri. I what are you going to do? And I was like,

I'm ready for the next challenge. mean, what is it? And, you know, I'm ready to do something. And he said, well, we've got this opportunity in New York that we need somebody to come up and be regional manager of ⁓ New York North, I think. And I said, well, you know, I didn't talk to my wife about it, but, know, I didn't want, wasn't going to turn it down, right? So was like, yeah, I'll check it out. And ⁓ so I went home and, you know, talked to Kelly and Kelly's like, yeah, let's do it. And I'm like,

Jordan (09:09)
Mm.

Zach Green (09:23)
I was like, before I even told her where it was, I'm like, well, I do you know where we're, where I'm talking about? It's like Watertown, New York. Where's that at? You know, as we looked it up. the first picture that comes up on the internet, when you look it up is like this 12 foot wall of snow. And she's like, well, I mean, it'll be all right.

Jordan (09:25)
you know.

Seth Stevens (09:30)
Almost Canada.

Jordan (09:39)
this road going through it.

It'll be, I mean, can't be that way all year, right?

Seth Stevens (09:47)
It'll be fine.

Zach Green (09:48)
Yeah,

so anyway, I told George I was interested in so Robert Dusek called me and he said, well, why don't you fly up and you know, meet you in Roseland. It was their corporate office and we'll talk about it. So I flew up there and met with him and you know, and I met Robert a few times before, but didn't really know him that well. But we had a great talk about, you know, just business and people and process and position and you know, what makes it work and not work and.

And so, through the interview, he kept asking me more and more questions about scenarios and what would you do there and that sort of thing. It felt like it was getting into a broader scope of a job. Anyway, we had a great interview, I thought, and it was good to meet him. And I flew back home and he called me a couple days later. I think I was down at the Clinton Corrie, actually in Arkansas.

And he called me and he said, Hey, ⁓ I want to offer you that, that a job up here. said, okay, great. What do you got in mind? He goes, well, I want you to be the division manager over in New York. I'm like, well, what, I mean, what's that entail? Like, will you be over in New York central and New York north and I over in Pennsylvania, but you'd be based out of Syracuse. So, okay. Well, that's, it's not really, I thought I was, you

Seth Stevens (11:08)
different than

the John White.

Zach Green (11:10)
And

he said, yeah, but you know, I think you've got a lot of capabilities and ⁓ just going to make a different choice up here and I think it'd be good for you. And I said, okay, you know, let me talk to Kelly and all that. so during that time we were, Kelly was pregnant with her third Harper. And so I got back home, you know, talked to Kelly and she's like, yeah, great. Well, it's like, she went into labor like that day or something. So I was signing like all the paperwork up here at the St. Francis and

Seth Stevens (11:27)
Okay.

Zach Green (11:39)
Harper was born and like two days later I was on an airplane going to Syracuse. And we're selling our house and moving to New York and. It was it was a wild time, so we had a brand new baby. I was traveling back and forth from here to Syracuse. We're trying to find a house. All that. ⁓ So anyway, it made it worked out great. We ended up moving to Syracuse. We had a great time up there. ⁓ Stayed up there for three years. Managed the New York North. Art in New York. ⁓

Seth Stevens (11:44)
⁓ my.

Zach Green (12:07)
Operations and IA and it was great became vice president up there of the Northeast and then ⁓ in 2016 I got the opportunity to come back here to Delta. So a few years later. And ⁓ that was another one where John Vidal ⁓ was the president at the time. And what was it? I'm trying to remember Robert said, hey, I need you to come down here to New Jersey. ⁓

I want to tell you, we're going to talk to John about an acquisition that we're looking at because we were looking at one up there at the time. I was the upstone group now and I'm like, okay, yeah, sure. I can be down there. So I got down there and I come sitting around the office all morning at the Barrett office and he's like, well, John, he's not going be able to meet with you until like 1230. And I was down there like 8 a.m. I'm like, well, let's come on, you know. So I sit in there and I'm working on my computer and whatever and like 11 o'clock rolls around and he goes, well, hey, listen,

John, it's not about the acquisitions, it's about something else, but don't worry. It's good. And, want you to know, I support you, you know, whatever decision you make. And I'm like, well, what is going on? So at the time Rick was president at Delta, ⁓ and they were gonna, you know, Rick was going to move on and, and they wanted me to take the job. So it was like under the cloak of darkness, come into the job at L and he tells me what the opportunity is. And I'm like, well,

Seth Stevens (13:14)
What a lead in.

Zach Green (13:32)
Yeah, I I'm interested, you know, I guess, you know, move back to Cape Trarado and all that. you know, we were kind of liking life in Syracuse. And so, you know, called Kelly, my wife went home and talked to her about it. And, you know, she was like, yeah, you know, I like Syracuse, but, you know, these winters are rough and I'm ready to get back to some warmer climate. So, so yeah, we moved back down here. It was a lot easier move with the kids because, you know, the kids would come back to their friends.

Seth Stevens (13:59)
Right. Yeah, the older two. Yeah. which how old were they when you had moved to Syracuse?

Zach Green (14:04)
We moved to Syracuse. Liam was in second grade and so Nolan would have been in kindergarten. young and then when we came back we've been fifth grade in second. ⁓ So yeah, so we moved back here became president of Delta. You Delta was in a kind of a bad spot. ⁓ It was kind of another turnaround situation here.

Seth Stevens (14:08)
Okay, yeah.

Jordan (14:13)
or something.

Seth Stevens (14:14)
Yeah.

Zach Green (14:28)
And that's when we decided to make a swap with ReadyMix because ReadyMix was struggling. You know, it was just an off and on business. If there was a lot of volume in the market, it did okay. When the volume went down, did terribly. So we made a swap with CMO ReadyMix, which was good. We acquired the Hartman Quarry. And, know, it's kind of same thing, right? Getting the right leadership in place and make some changes, structural changes and stuff. And yeah, it turned out good. And then in 2021, got the opportunity to go out to Reeves.

And that was a bit of a turnaround there too, and certain sponsors and spots were doing really good and others were struggling. And got that kind of squared away, made some changes out there, doing good today. And got to keep oversight over Delta too. did that. then we combined the two companies. And so I've been doing that since 21 and then...

Jordan (15:13)
Mm-hmm.

Zach Green (15:20)
I last year or year before last at the end of 24 beginning of 25 got this role as executive vice president which pulled in the Pennsylvania operations and evaluating that business and we're in middle of a divestment up there in Pennsylvania now. So yeah, that brings us up to today.

Seth Stevens (15:39)
Yeah, and now you're still trying to figure out what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah.

Zach Green (15:43)
No, I all kidding aside, A lot of it's around strategy, And, know, ⁓ tailoring that US strategy to what makes sense in our markets. ⁓ And, know, keeping leadership focused on moving that strategy forward and, you know, providing direction on where we're going and how we're getting there.

Seth Stevens (15:45)
I get it.

Yep.

Zach Green (16:06)
keeping a consistent culture, making sure the culture is right, and making adjustments where we need to, making sure our leadership team is right, and making adjustments there if we have to. It's a lot around coaching and enabling people. I mean, we've got a lot of highly qualified, talented people that I manage, it's not about what tell them what to do. It's about helping them, enabling them to be able to do what they do best, and just kind of help guide them along.

Seth Stevens (16:34)
Right, yeah, that's kind of a tough part, I guess, that goes back to, like I had noted, you know, it sounds like one of the most, like, I guess, influential times or positions of your career was maybe the region manager of aggregates. Like you were, I guess you were prepared for it and you were like taking on new challenges that you hadn't before. Like you said, managing managers.

rather than like managing frontline employees and that kind of stuff. So like, what did you learn in that experience about managing managers and what you're looking for?

Jordan (17:14)
Yeah, that's a great

Zach Green (17:15)
question.

You know, I think, and I learned more when I was with Doucet, but I think you're right. I mean, that was kind of the formative time of, of ⁓ managing people or managing managers, as you said. So I think, you know, what I what I learned there was, it's not about, it's not about doing their job, right?

and not about telling them what to do, it's about setting an expectation of what good looks like, looks like really, and then holding them accountable to that, right? And providing the tools and the resources for them to achieve it, right? And so it's collaborative, working together, but also...

Jordan (17:43)
I'm

Mm-hmm.

Zach Green (18:00)
very much around accountability. I'm a big proponent of accountability, right? And if we're gonna trust one another and I'm gonna ask you to do something, I'm gonna show you what great looks like and we're gonna get there together, then you gotta hold up your end of that. Hold up my end of that. And people that don't do it, don't work for me. It just doesn't work. I can't have people that aren't held accountable and aren't accountable to what they're supposed to do.

Jordan (18:15)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

So did you at any point in time, like you mentioned when George set you down and just kind of said, hey, Zach, you know, what do you want for yourself? Did you have, what was your vision before that? Or was it just kind of about that? Hey, I'm comfortable after three years. I'm ready to get uncomfortable again.

Zach Green (18:42)
It's more around

that. I mean, I've never had a map of like, this is where I want to go. I want to be CEO. That's where I'm going. It's been about what's next, what makes sense, and really being present in where you're at. Like when I was regional manager of Agri-Ritz, that's what I was focused on. I wasn't focused on becoming vice president of somewhere else.

Seth Stevens (19:07)
Yeah. Right.

Zach Green (19:08)
And it's about, you know, what I was talking about doing, doing the best job I can do, enabling people to grow. And where I find, you know, enjoyment and reward is like watching people succeed. Like people that you've coached and helped and, you know, brought through the process and watching them succeed and overcome a challenge or, you know, get a quarry back in line where it's operating tip top. And now they're the professional. mean, I love that.

Jordan (19:34)
Mm-hmm.

Zach Green (19:36)
And for me, it's when I get to a point where like, you know, you've developed all your managers and they're all running at a very high level and you know, you're kind of not 200,000, but you you're like, well, it's kind of running itself now. So that that's where I start getting uncomfortable is like this complacent. It's not complacency, but it's like boredom maybe is the right word for me. You know, it's just a

Jordan (19:51)
Who's next?

Zach Green (20:03)
I need a new, I need a challenge to, you know, to.

Seth Stevens (20:07)
Yep.

Jordan (20:08)
I think that's

healthy for all of us and healthy for the business itself too. If people get comfortable, as you said, know, I mean that for driving success and for moving forward and taking that next step to improvement. Yeah. Got to get a little uncomfortable.

Seth Stevens (20:23)
Yeah, that's true. It takes a lot of like self-awareness to realize that you're like driven by challenge and now you're kind of like, well, this is nice. I could probably coast out on this like if I wanted to, right? Like it's going well, something else will come up, but you want more than that.

Zach Green (20:42)
It's not everybody,

right? I mean, that's just me. mean, some people are, I that's where they find comfort, right? Is being comfortable. Not that I'm comfortable being uncomfortable, but you know, mean, that's where, ⁓ that's what I like though, is I like a challenge. And also, you know, it gives me an opportunity to help people too. And I like to help people succeed.

Jordan (20:48)
Mm-hmm.

Seth Stevens (21:02)
Yeah, yeah, so that really kind of launched. I remembered what I was going to say. So you were like kind of ⁓ coaching, like when you're taking a manager, you're managing a set of managers. Now you're almost like co-working, coaching them and helping them or helping hold them accountable to stuff, right? And they have to be in that game with you. Like you kind of mentioned that, right? Like you have to be open to setting goals for yourself and

knowing what greatness looks like and ⁓ being held accountable to that in the fashion that you would hold people accountable, right? Because some people aren't comfortable with different styles or whatever of that. And so you got to find the right pairing where you can work together. So what were like techniques that you've learned over time, like that are generally applied? Like it's probably different for different people, but...

Jordan (22:01)
Yep.

Zach Green (22:01)
I

mean, I think everybody's different, right? So I mean, I would say that's a technique in and of itself, right? Is being able to recognize people and what their, you know, what their personalities are, what they need and don't need, right? So certain people need certain things. Certain people don't respond well to other things, right? So knowing that, being able to read people. But, you know, it's a lot about collaboration, right? I would say that...

Being a good listener is important. And a lot of people don't do that well. A lot of people listen to have an opportunity to say something, but they're really not listening. Right. So I think being a good listener and really, really trying to understand deeply what that person is trying to convey and then guiding them on like, yes, I'll help you do that. Or wait a minute, have you thought about that or this, or maybe we need to look at that through a different lens.

Seth Stevens (22:37)
Right.

Zach Green (22:57)
And I think that for me, that's been probably the most powerful tool, right? Is really listening to what people are saying and where their difficulties are at and either helping them to get there or coaching them around, well, I don't think you're seeing that quite right. This is what we need to do.

Seth Stevens (23:20)
Can you point back to anything that you think helped you develop those skills? Like was it repetition and roles? Was it any like specific training or mentor type person that really helped you?

Jordan (23:32)
I think.

Zach Green (23:33)
Robert Doucet was a big part of my development for sure. ⁓ And I don't know if he helped me specifically on listening, but he helped me about reading people and beyond reading people, but more of like, maybe executive presence is a better word for it, but like how you're perceived, right? Like the kind of the objective view of, when you say that,

When you had that meeting today, you would give me this feedback, right? Like you met with your team, I was there, I saw you, you know, this is how you, this is what you did, this is what your intent was. Here's what they saw. You know, you weren't confident in what you said here, and so they're not gonna respond to that. And so a lot of just honest feedback about, you know, this is what you're trying to do, here's how it's being seen.

So, you if you want them to respond to that, you're going to have to be more confident in your message. You're going to have to be more concise or, know, whatever it was, right? I don't remember specifics, but he was really, he was a really good coach for me around that, around leading people in, in how you, how you're seeing, right? Like really understanding that and understanding the importance of it. Like, ⁓ you know, when you get like in all of our roles, really, I mean, everybody's watching us all the time.

Jordan (24:27)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Zach Green (24:49)
And you don't

think about that, but like when you're, you know, end of the day and you go have a beer with your coworkers, people are still watching you. They're still seeing what you're doing and they're taking notes on that. You know, so it's everything you do.

Jordan (25:00)
Mm-hmm.

It's an important lesson for sure. You're an engineering major, correct, by the way? Mining engineer. So it's interesting to hear, you know, a mining engineer, what you studied in school, what you came out as your expertise, and then how much expertise you have built since all around people. Yeah, yeah, right.

Zach Green (25:08)
Yeah, mining it.

If you'd have told me that when I graduated school, I'd have told you you're crazy. But, you know, I mean, I don't know. I guess if I look back on my college years and what I learned, I learned how to solve problems. You know, I couldn't go do a pump design for you anymore or rock mechanics or any of that stuff that I learned in school. But, you know, I could figure it out. I could go find the people that could do it.

Seth Stevens (25:25)
Yeah.

Jordan (25:37)
Right.

Zach Green (25:49)
⁓ So, you it's, I don't know, you adapt, right? mean, it's just, yeah, it's different.

Jordan (25:53)
That's an interesting,

you adapt, right? You learn a habit, you learn a skill. How can you apply that to what's real in your life right now?

Zach Green (26:02)
It's interesting.

Seth Stevens (26:03)
I like that take because I mean, I've often thought kind of the same thing, you know, education sometimes gets poo-pooed because it may be in a specific area. You don't think you can utilize that in other areas, but it's really, like you said, problem solving, learn how to navigate, ⁓ you know, business or ⁓ scientific problems or whatever. And a lot of like the professional certifications and testing you do is even like testing

that to a further degree and like resiliency and whether you can do it, right? Because a lot of those professional tests, like none of that stuff is still relevant. Like all the things have changed from what you're tested on, but it proved that you could like go through that process. You have the resiliency to like learn it all and test on it, right? ⁓ Do you think...

So it sounds like maybe your time with Robert as division manager, vice president was probably the most fond time that you kind of remember the most as far as transformation personally or?

Zach Green (27:11)
Well, I mean, that's fair. think that's the, I would say Robert is probably the, maybe not the only, but the most powerful mentor I ever had. And we still connect every once in a while, you know, not nearly as much as we used to and more informally now, but you know, he's just, he was a big part of my career development. And, you know, it was, I was, you know, lucky to have him.

Jordan (27:12)
Yes.

Seth Stevens (27:23)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Right.

Jordan (27:39)
That's awesome.

Zach Green (27:39)
very

open to giving me advice and a big part of my success for sure.

Jordan (27:45)
Mm-hmm.

Seth Stevens (27:46)
think you can tell that, by the way, that you were talking about it and you come back to that area of your career lot, absolutely. Leading up to that, there's a lot of like baptism by fire. Absolutely.

Jordan (27:56)
Right.

Zach Green (27:57)
And quite honestly, like poor mentorship, right? Like I didn't have a mentor really. And I had, I mean, honestly, poor leaders, if I'm being truthful about it. And, you know, I didn't have good examples of what it looked like to do it well. And so, and that's probably, you I hadn't thought about it before, but that's probably why I latched on so firmly to Robert, because it was a really good leader I had had to work for.

Seth Stevens (28:01)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jordan (28:14)
Mm-hmm

Seth Stevens (28:20)
the first.

Zach Green (28:24)
And I enjoyed it and I was seeking like, you know, the learning there.

Jordan (28:27)
Mm-hmm

Seth Stevens (28:29)
Makes total sense.

think a lot of times it's ⁓ rare to find somebody, like especially within your own company, right? That like, kind that you could latch on to. So it's, it's interesting.

Zach Green (28:44)
Yeah, it was interesting.

Seth Stevens (28:46)
also proves, I guess, the point about how powerful like a mentor type individual can be, right? Because, and you can't like, a plant foreman role or a quarry manager or whatever, like you could take some mentor stuff, but in a lot of those positions, you really need a lot more like technical training and like help to get there, right? Until you, at least the way I see it, until you kind of get to the maybe more settled into that role.

Zach Green (29:14)
I mean, I would say it's a balance, right? And I think that that balance just shifts ⁓ as you come up through your career. Like, I think you're right, right? As ⁓ you know, as foreman level, my success was more on technical skills, for sure. But it was also about managing like the hourly people, right? And that required a different set of skills to do. But it was around accountability for those folks too, right? Like if I said that, you know, hey, listen, guys, we got to change the screen tonight or whatever.

Jordan (29:33)
that.

Seth Stevens (29:33)
Yeah, you're right.

Zach Green (29:42)
I had to count on them to get it done, right? If it wasn't done, then the whole operation didn't run the next. So, mean, it's a different set of accountability and it's more directive certainly than it is collaborative. ⁓ But I think that that's also, that adapts as you move into different roles, it becomes more and more collaborative and less direct. But as like Corey manager, I remember, ⁓

Jordan (29:46)
Hmm.

Seth Stevens (30:01)
Yeah.

Zach Green (30:08)
you know, not really having much of a mentorship or person mentoring me. And that was, you know, why I was struggling. You know, a lot of it was just being young, but a lot of it was like I didn't have somebody that was helping me. They were like, just get it done. Okay. I'll do what I know, but you know.

Jordan (30:18)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Seth Stevens (30:24)
Yeah,

you're kind of like a bull in a china shop at that point. Right. And you're, and, ⁓ you know, it ends up working and you came out on the other side of it, but there's a lot of things that like could have gone better probably along the way.

Zach Green (30:28)
trying things.

Jordan (30:40)
Well and ⁓

Zach Green (30:41)
You know, I mean, I'll tell you a story that I don't tell very often, but Jim Weeks, who was our executive vice president at the time, was managing Rick Newbert. And ⁓ I was failing at the quarry down there, you know, struggling. And Jim tells about Rick ⁓ coming to Jim and said, you know, I think we're going to have to release this guy. He's just not making it down there. And Jim, and talking about me and Jim challenged Rick. And he's like, well, what are you doing to help him?

So what do you mean? Well, he's a 23 year old kid down there. What supporter are you giving him? Well, he's just not capable and I just don't think he's going to work out and whatever. And Jim said, well, you're not firing him. That's not going to happen. You move him to some other role where he can be successful. so I hadn't, of course, I didn't hear that story at the time, right? And I just moved into a different role. It's like great because I'm tired of struggling with that

Jordan (31:27)
Mm-hmm.

Seth Stevens (31:35)
Yeah.

Zach Green (31:36)
⁓ But so it was I think it was I was talking to a colos one group maybe or something and it was after I was up in New York working for Robert and so was a vice president up there and I was gonna give a talk to the Colos one group about I don't know what it was my career or something and so Jim tells that story before I get up and I'm like, holy shit

Seth Stevens (31:51)
Yeah.

Jordan (31:57)
I don't know.

Seth Stevens (31:59)
Thanks, Jim. Now I have to come up there. ⁓

Zach Green (32:03)
Jeez.

So I mean, he saved my career, I guess. But anyway.

Jordan (32:07)
I'm

glad Jim did that because I feel like that's what Rick did with me when he took me from the ready mix plant and put me in the safety profession. So maybe he learned a lesson from

Seth Stevens (32:15)
Yeah,

that's cool.

Zach Green (32:17)
Yeah, but you know, I also took from that though with Jim. mean, that was a learning moment too, right? You can't expect people that don't know what good or great looks like and how to get there to succeed, right? You got to help them.

Seth Stevens (32:31)
Right, yeah. You can't just... I mean, it's your responsibility as a manager to not just throw somebody into a situation and expect them to...

Jordan (32:39)
Yeah, gotta get the resources.

Zach Green (32:41)
tools.

Seth Stevens (32:42)
Yeah.

Yeah. All right. So from your position standpoint now, what, I mean, do have like cycles or routines that you work in like weekly? You know, for a lot of our positions, it's daily, right? You go into as a plant, asphalt plant foreman or whatever, a lot of days look the same, right? And you run in the plant. A lot of managers have similar weeks.

I honestly don't even know. Are you in two weeks once or is it different all the time?

Zach Green (33:16)
Well, I mean, I guess it's not different all the time, but I would say I probably don't really have a routine.

Because it's a lot around situational, what's happening with the business, what budget cycle we're in. I that's kind of a routine, I guess, as we're going through different budget cycles. I guess there's a routine in the fact of our monthly financial reporting, Looking at how we're keeping score and how we're doing that sort of thing. I that's a routine, I suppose.

Seth Stevens (33:39)
Yeah.

Zach Green (33:49)
I guess on a yearly basis, there's a bit of a routine you could call through the winter months and more training and travel and that sort of thing. The summer months where it's generally more busy across the group and more focused on performance.

Seth Stevens (34:02)
Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense. mean, I guess it's kind of like monthly you get leadership teams and meetings together and stuff like that. But even then each month to month doesn't look the same like around them. So.

Zach Green (34:16)
Yeah, I mean we have a cadence

there, right? And then our agenda doesn't change a lot, but you know, the topics change, Situational and what's going on. Yeah, so I'd say no, it's not a lot of routine. I don't do well with routine actually.

Seth Stevens (34:23)
Yeah.

Right.

Jordan (34:31)
was going to say, does that excite you more, not having just a...

Zach Green (34:36)
I

don't know if it excites me, but it would stifle me to be on a...

Seth Stevens (34:42)
Yeah, to be on a regular routine. But you had, I think you kind of made an important point. You called it cadences. You have regular cadences of meeting with people and stuff like that. But like your in-between time doesn't always look the same. It's very different, right?

Zach Green (34:58)
And I mean, don't have a scheduled catch up with all of my managers, but I'd make a point to have it on a regular frequency. We got to communicate and know what's going on together.

Jordan (35:08)
Hmm.

Seth Stevens (35:08)
Mm-hmm,

sure. What like metrics are you looking at on a regular basis from your level?

Zach Green (35:18)
⁓ Well, yeah, that's a good one. Profitability, certainly, right? And where we're at in accordance with our plan, like are we slipping behind or ahead or what's going on? then backlogs are an important one, a forward-looking metric about where are we at with work ahead of us? ⁓

Jordan (35:38)
Where?

Zach Green (35:40)
You know how we're bidding and in bid cycles, you know, what are what our percentage of profitability is and how we're pricing work and why ⁓ That one that was really important to me, especially when you know, we're Trying to drive profitability and drive price, know, it's it's important that we're doing that But but you have to balance that also with you know, how much work are we picking up and you know? What's our backlog look like right because we we got to provide for our people. So that's a that's a fine balance and I've you know, I mean

bash all the construction guys, but you know, the construction guys like to get work. They like to win. Everybody likes to win, but you know, sometimes it's not the right deal. You can't win them all. Driving the market down. know, finding the right balance and helping them do that is important. And then, you know, I mean, that's this kind of getting down in the weeds, but you know, if we're, I guess the way I look at it is like, you know, you look at kind of a top level view by activity, like, you know, how are we doing? and if we're

Seth Stevens (36:17)
Yeah. Right.

Zach Green (36:39)
If we're ahead or behind, then it's like, okay, well, why, right? So then let's drive it down a level. And then if that's not the answer, then maybe it's down to even location level, right? Not very often for me that I would get down to a location level. Generally I'd be pulling in a ⁓ president or manager or somebody and asking, what do you think's going on here? And letting them run their business, right? I was micromanaged at one point in my career and I don't ever...

Jordan (36:49)
which is

Seth Stevens (36:49)
.

Yeah,

right. ⁓

Zach Green (37:09)
⁓

But then it's like, then, you if we're talking about location level, well, then it's like tons per man hour, right? What's our uptime? You know, how many downtime events we have and are we turning customers away? What's our FOB sales look like at Asphalt Plant, right? Or is that, are we missing sales there because of this, that sort of thing? And then what's that mean to our customers? How are we taking care of the customers? So, you know, I mean, it can get really granular ⁓ if it has to.

Jordan (37:36)
Mm-hmm.

Seth Stevens (37:38)
Depending

on what level you're looking at.

Zach Green (37:40)
Right, but you know,

generally if it's getting that granular, then it's more of a conversation with the vice president or through him to those managers about why aren't you managing your business? Because if this is going wrong, then there's probably a lot of other things that are going wrong. Somebody's not being held accountable to do what they're supposed to be doing.

Seth Stevens (37:46)
Yeah.

Right. Right.

You brought up a good point or kind of a side thing about construction work, right? And I think that's true for the entire industry is like, it's easy to be so close to it and get tied to it get emotional about things.

Jordan (38:15)
It is a bit

Zach Green (38:16)
It's like gambling, you know? mean, you could...

Jordan (38:19)
Make a per-

Seth Stevens (38:20)
⁓ Yeah, so you came you didn't come up in the construction world though. So do you feel like you had an advantage and in being able to stay Unemotional about it or do you even have you even found yourself at times? getting emotional

Zach Green (38:37)
Well, I mean, I like to win too. Yeah. But you know, it's, ⁓ you know, it's having that, I don't know what you call it, emotional detachment, where you can kind of, you know, you need to detach yourself emotionally from what's going on and think about the business and make the right decision for the business, which is not easy, right? But yeah, I found myself there, sure. And I don't think coming up through manufacturing makes me

Seth Stevens (38:50)
Yeah.

Zach Green (39:05)
Maybe it does make me look at it a little bit differently perhaps, but ⁓ you know, it's an art, right? mean, you don't always know the right answer. You're trying to manage things that can't be known. So it's difficult.

Seth Stevens (39:19)
Yeah.

Jordan (39:22)
Mm-hmm. We're shooting a little bit back to what you were talking about when I had asked you about the three-year cycle, you know, and you get uncomfortable and then I'm ready for some uncomfortability, right? I feel like that kind of makes you more of a dynamic leader or manager. You can look at things through the lens of five different lenses as opposed to one if you're a one track mind and you've done it this way over and over and over again and that's all you ever know and then you start to just see things that way all the time. Yeah, that's that's a good

Seth Stevens (39:23)
or

Zach Green (39:48)
Good point.

And that brings up another thought that I've got about mobility, right? So for me, I told you like Kelly was all in, right? Well, I was like, I don't know about this, I mean, moving all the way up there. We don't know anybody. We're gonna family, you know? So one thing I'll tell you, I mean, she, pushed me into it. It's all her fault. No, I've got her to thank for it. But, ⁓ you know, when we got up there, it worked out right. And, ⁓

Jordan (39:55)
Yeah, I was gonna ask you about it.

Seth Stevens (40:09)
No. ⁓

Zach Green (40:16)
but it gave me that lens you're talking about, right? And it's not just from having a different job, but it's like different business environments, different people, different culture. mean, the culture is different everywhere you go. And so it does give you different perspective and different lenses to look through and understand. ⁓ yeah, mean, mobility I think is super important. It has been for me and I think, know, ⁓

Jordan (40:26)
Yep.

Zach Green (40:39)
for people that have ambitions to grow their career, think for me it's an accelerator. If you can do that and be mobile, I mean just look at the opportunities in Delta. There's a certain number of them. Well, if you're open to work anywhere in the US, well you just multiply that by five. So it just provides paths that you wouldn't have otherwise and perspective, right? Different lenses.

Jordan (40:56)
Right or more

Seth Stevens (41:05)
for sure. It does end up being a lot better and you figure it out like more than you think on the front end. Because like we like when I moved to Arkansas, for example, I was similar to you like on the fence. I don't know if I'm ready for that. Yeah, I got it. So I called Taylor, my wife, and immediately like she was on a work trip like

on onboarding like another bank that they had bought or something and immediately she was like, yeah, let's move. I was like, whoa, wait. I needed some more emotional processing time of this. think I wasn't ready for you to just say, yeah, let's do it. But we did and everything ended up being, you know, fine. Like a lot of the things that you think are going to happen are not really a big deal. Like you figure it out, right? And I think,

Jordan (41:38)
was my re-

Seth Stevens (41:59)
that wasn't nearly as far of a mobility as like New York, but even then you're working in different environment and different culture and all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, no, I just thought I had a similar experience with the myself thinking the same way. And then your wife being like, yeah, let's do it. Yeah. What's the what's been the most difficult part about your job? And you can, guess you could even reference like President time.

Zach Green (42:29)
The most difficult part. I guess the most difficult part are the tough business decisions you got to make because you know that it's going to affect people that you know, right, that you've become close with and worked with over the years and that's not easy. ⁓ So I think those like selling Illinois, or selling the Clinton Cori or selling Pennsylvania, ⁓ those are tough decisions to make. ⁓

Jordan (42:43)
to do.

Mm-hmm.

Zach Green (42:56)
So that's probably the hardest. And I guess the way I rationalize it is like, you know, there's the reason we're selling it is because it's not successful for us. Right. So do those employees really deep down enjoy working there if they're not successful in what they're doing? And, you know, I know they're not, you know, not happy maybe about us selling to someone else, but, you know, if we're divesting that business to someone else that has the ability and the position

to then make that business successful and help those people grow and they're going to take good care of our people, then, you know, aren't we really doing a disservice to our people by just having them hang out here and lose money and, you know, we're hard on them all the time about, you know, cost and everything else because it's not successful. I think those are always the hardest decisions to make, but I don't know. I think in the end, it works out.

Jordan (43:34)
Thank

Seth Stevens (43:44)
For sure, yeah. ⁓

Yeah. Well, I think to your point, we have a case where that did happen with a company on the East Coast that was not a right fit for us. And we got rid of them into, you know, they just, they were bought by a company that it was a better fit. And I think they're doing pretty well now. And there's a lot of people that work there that I've caught up with that like association events and stuff. it's, you know, they're having a great time. they're

They still work there, the environment's good and they're more successful because there's a better fit for.

Zach Green (44:26)
was a better fit and they also got better market position, right? And they've got the capital to invest and it's not that we don't have the capital, but it's like, if you're in a winning position and your business is doing well, then you're more apt to invest the money, right? And continue to grow it. So yeah, I mean, but it's not, it's tough, they're tough decisions.

Seth Stevens (44:40)
Yeah. Yeah. Right.

For sure. ⁓ You kind of talked already about like, there's something you really enjoy seeing as coaching people and seeing them succeed. Do you consider that probably the most fun or rewarding part of your job?

Zach Green (45:01)
Yeah, for sure. I mean, yeah, that's the, for me, that's the most rewarding is, you know, watching people grow in their career and become successful and do more than they thought they could do. know, it's great.

Jordan (45:14)
Mm-hmm.

Seth Stevens (45:16)
Yeah, awesome. You've talked about being all over the place. You've talked about lots of different roles. I mean, I know that you travel a lot now. So how do you balance traveling and work and family and hobbies and how you like to play golf? How do you make time for all that stuff or something that's worked for you? You want me to call Kelly real quick?

Zach Green (45:39)
I don't.

You might want to ask her that question. Well, you, I mean, you can't do everything, right? So, you know, I would say there's a sacrifice there, honestly. I didn't, I didn't make all the baseball games that I wanted to or the basketball games or volleyball games or, you know, all that stuff that I, that I probably, you know, would have if I'd have been home all the time, right? So, I mean, there is a level of sacrifice that, that I think you've got to get right with, with your family.

Jordan (46:13)
Mm-hmm.

Zach Green (46:13)
⁓

and know, Kelly and I have we've talked we talked early on about it and and You know, I think if you asked asked my family my wife and kids about it They would say that you know, their dad's out there doing that so they can do what they can do So, you know, I think that we've got an understanding that there's that balance works for us, but it doesn't work for everybody so, you know, I mean as far as finding time I think there's a

Seth Stevens (46:35)
Right, yeah.

Zach Green (46:41)
There's generally a lot more time in a day than people think, you know, and it's about being purposeful about what you want to accomplish and, you know, making time. But, you know, I mean, I think that, ⁓ I think people can do a lot more if they just make time for it. And, know, it's just, it's busy, right? So you gotta be comfortable with that, but I like staying busy. So for me, I mean, my wife would tell you like, we go on vacation, I'm sitting on the beach or something for over an hour. This isn't working for me.

Jordan (46:51)
to do.

Seth Stevens (46:57)
Yeah.

You're more of a ski guy, not a beach guy. Okay.

Zach Green (47:13)
Yeah. I like the beach, but you know,

Jordan (47:16)
Got it.

Zach Green (47:16)
do something like sit there all day. Yeah.

Seth Stevens (47:18)
Yeah. ⁓

What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given? ⁓ You might have multiple.

Zach Green (47:25)
⁓

Jordan (47:27)
Yeah. ⁓

Zach Green (47:28)
I don't know, there's probably more than I think of. I've gotten a lot of it through the years. ⁓ One piece ⁓ that's surrounding yourself with the right people, right? And that kind of goes, it kind of is the accountability piece. It's about high performers, but you you've got, you can't be successful by yourself, right? And that goes for any level in the organization. You've got to...

Jordan (47:35)
good is.

Mm-hmm.

Seth Stevens (47:50)
Right.

Zach Green (47:55)
I think be objective about who you've got working for you. Are they the right people? Are they the right people for that role? You know, because you might have the right people, but they're just in the wrong role. Or you might have the wrong person altogether and they need to be successful somewhere else. But you know, to be successful, you've got to surround yourself with the right people. And I think that that's ⁓

Jordan (48:05)
Mm-hmm.

Zach Green (48:16)
That's super important. the good great book is a lot around that. Jim Collins' book, that's ⁓ one of my favorites. And he relates it to the bus, right? By getting the right people on the bus, then in the right seats, and then you can determine where you're going to drive. ⁓ That advice didn't come from him, but it came from somebody else. Maybe they read the book. But anyway, I think that's a super important one for career-wise, ⁓ is getting the right people around you.

Jordan (48:31)
Mm-hmm.

Seth Stevens (48:35)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jordan (48:36)
Yeah.

Zach Green (48:47)
I think back to just letting them grow and not trying to micromanage people. So I don't know, that's one that comes to mind.

Jordan (48:52)
Hmm.

Seth Stevens (48:56)
like bumpers on a bowling alley. Like,

Zach Green (49:00)
Well, yeah, mean, gotta let people make mistakes.

Seth Stevens (49:03)
Right, yeah. I guess that's what I mean. Kind of taking it from what you were just saying is like, you have to make room for them to grow, which is gonna be enduring some mistakes and stuff, right? You're there to not let them hit rock bottom. But you're also there to not cap them either, like put a ceiling on them or anything.

Zach Green (49:26)
It's kind of controlling how big that disaster is going to be. We don't want them to completely utterly fail, but making some mistakes along the way is how you learn. That's perfectly fine, but let's not let them go off the cliff.

Seth Stevens (49:41)
Yeah, yeah,

yeah, for sure. What's something, so you're super driven, obviously. You like to stay busy. Do you have stuff that you want to accomplish within the next year, personally and professionally?

Zach Green (49:55)
Uh, yeah, I mean, you know, I don't, I don't like write them all down, but you know, I'd like to get, I think I'd like to get my handicap down to like a three.

Jordan (49:59)
Yeah, sure I do.

Seth Stevens (50:03)
Yeah.

A plus? No. ⁓ okay.

Zach Green (50:13)
⁓ But you know, mean, personally, that's probably what I'm always working on is, ⁓ is my golf game. A little obsessive about that. ⁓ You know, I do woodworking too. So, you know, I'm always looking for new projects, some cutting boards that were pretty cool. know, you know, looking for new, new stuff to do there. ⁓ Professionally, you know, right now I've got a big focus on Delta. You know, we've not had a great year in our manufacturing business. And I think that that is a

Seth Stevens (50:21)
Yeah.

Zach Green (50:42)
is our strength here really and we need to be great at that. So getting that back on track and more broadly actually manufacturing across our group is performing well I would say in most spots but not great. we're the globally we're the largest asphalt producer in the world and we ought be great at that everywhere. So I think really kind of

Jordan (51:04)
Mm-hmm

Zach Green (51:08)
Sharpening our skills on that ⁓ is a focus this year for me.

Jordan (51:11)
Okay.

Seth Stevens (51:13)
That's good. What's your handicap right now? how much, how much? Six. Okay. All right. We've to cut it in half. ⁓ Where do you see our industry going in the future? I know you're actually, this might be good opportunity to talk about being the chair of. ⁓

Zach Green (51:21)
That's right. It's only a few strokes.

Jordan (51:37)
of NSSGA.

Zach Green (51:38)
That's an honor to be able to do that. I guess part of the role is having an external ⁓ focus on how we're seen in the industry and how we also interact with the industry is important. So yeah, it's a great honor to be the chairman of NSSGA that's coming up in March at ConExpo. that'll be fun. ⁓ Looking forward to that. I don't know how I'm gonna find the time to do that too. I guess I'll figure it out.

Seth Stevens (52:05)
Yeah.

Zach Green (52:08)
Yeah, but.

Seth Stevens (52:10)
Where

do see the industry going like in the future?

Zach Green (52:14)
⁓ So, I mean, for me, and you guys are doing some already down in Arkansas, but I think that technology has not been implemented in our industry. I think it's been left behind. mean, you go to any industrialized manufacturing facility, almost any, whether that be tires or cars or whatever, a bunch of them.

Jordan (52:34)
Yeah.

Zach Green (52:38)
They've all got this automated facility that is state of the art and they're talking about performance in real time. It's measurable, it's visible, actionable, and everybody on that line understands what their job is and how much they gotta get done. You go walk our asphalt plan or our quarries, show me where it's at. It's not. I think there's a huge opportunity for technology and AI. mean.

just technology and automation, let alone AI, which is another accelerant, ⁓ is a huge opportunity for industry. And I think we're going to see that adapt and change over the next 10 years.

But in order for that to work, we've got to be good at the fundamentals of what we do, Technology is not an answer to change everything if you're not good at what you do already. So we've got to be good at what we do. And then same on the road construction side too. think there's the automated paver that you guys are doing in Arkansas is a huge step in the right direction. ⁓ Automating the rollers. I think it's just a...

Seth Stevens (53:26)
Right.

Zach Green (53:40)
It's adapting to the workplace that we've got today. We don't have a ton of workers coming into our industry that are interested in being on a loop behind a paver or even on a roller or on the back of a paver. We've got to adapt to that skill set that we're getting. more around technology and more refined skills. So we've got to figure out how to provide for that.

Seth Stevens (53:55)
Yeah.

Right. Yeah, yeah, for sure. All right, so we've been having kind of a tradition on the podcast for the last guest to leave a question for the next guest. And I conveniently didn't send you this question. ⁓

Zach Green (54:20)
What was the question I got asked from the last question? it's...

Seth Stevens (54:22)
Well here it comes.

Jordan (54:24)
okay.

Seth Stevens (54:24)
What can you do moving forward to help improve the industry?

They didn't even know you were going to be the next guest, but this is a pretty fitting question.

Zach Green (54:35)
It is. ⁓ Well, I think what's right in front of us right now is the expiration of the IJA bill, the federal transportation bill. And I guess what I could do to help the industry is to, ⁓ you know, use NSSGA and our other associations to try to get that next bill put into place. I think it's super important for our business. And not that I can do that by myself, but, you know, pushing that along and getting our

you know, industry behind that to support it is important and getting our legislators to understand why it's important for our economy in the US is also super important.

Seth Stevens (55:14)
Yeah,

you're teed up for it with that chair position. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Thanks, Zach.

Seth Stevens (55:24)
If you all enjoyed the episode, please rate our show and leave a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, and check out Delta on all social media platforms at Delta Companies and our website at delta.cos. ⁓

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