The Industry You Rely On But Never Think About

In this episode of On the Surface, Seth sits back down with Jeff Hotop and Blake Lingle for a candid, wide-ranging conversation about the construction industry, how it operates behind the scenes, and the external factors that influence pricing, strategy, and growth.

The conversation starts with a simple but revealing question: what does Delta actually do? Jeff and Blake offer their outside perspectives, highlighting how even experienced professionals in adjacent industries only have a general sense of how construction companies operate. From there, Seth breaks down the reality of a vertically integrated business, walking through everything from quarries and asphalt production to large-scale infrastructure projects.

A central theme throughout the discussion is how misunderstood the construction industry can be. Seth, Jeff, and Blake explore the idea that infrastructure is something people rely on every day but rarely think about. Whether it’s roads, electricity, or other essential systems, they discuss how these “invisible” industries become most noticeable only when something goes wrong, and why that creates a gap in public understanding.

The episode also dives into how different industries intersect within construction. Jeff shares how Easy Equipment Zone plays a role through heavy equipment sourcing and distribution, while Blake explains how banking supports the industry through lending, cash flow management, and long-term financing. Together, they illustrate how construction is supported by a larger ecosystem of businesses all working behind the scenes to keep projects moving.

Another key part of the conversation focuses on pricing and volatility. Using real-world examples, Seth explains how fluctuations in oil and material costs impact everything downstream, from large highway projects to small neighborhood repairs. Jeff and Blake provide the perspective of the everyday customer, highlighting how difficult it can be to understand why prices change so dramatically and why transparency matters in building trust.

The discussion also touches on competition, growth strategy, and future plans. Seth walks through what it means to compete at different levels of a vertically integrated business, from materials to paving, and shares how Delta is thinking about expansion, diversification, and reducing reliance on public funding over time.

Throughout the episode, Jeff and Blake bring an outside perspective that challenges assumptions and adds clarity to complex topics. They ask practical questions about risk, financing, and decision-making, offering listeners a look at how construction projects are evaluated from both a lender’s and a CFO’s point of view.

Together, they explore the importance of education and transparency in an industry where the end product is everywhere, but the process is rarely understood. It’s a grounded, thoughtful conversation that highlights the intersection of infrastructure, finance, and public perception—and reinforces a simple truth: the most essential industries are often the least visible, but they shape nearly every part of our daily lives.

Thanks for listening!

Check us out:

deltacos.com

Instragram

LinkedIn

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Welcome back to On the Surface. I'm your host, Seth Stevens, and this week I step back down with Jeff Hotop, who's CFO with Easy Equipment Zone, and Blake Lingle in commercial lending with the Bank of Missouri to discuss the construction industry, external factors that affect pricing and strategy, and how their roles or industries play a part in the construction world. But first, let's talk about feedback. If you haven't already, please go follow, rate, and review our show on whatever listening app you're using and share it with your friends on social media, tagging Delta Companies or any of us individually. We really want this community to keep growing. All right, let's get into the conversation. Okay, we're back. Jeff, Hotop, Blake Langle. I thought this would be a fun part too to get kind of public opinion's take on what our industry does. Like what type of work Delta does and what the external viewpoint is. So no better way to start it off than to ask you what you think Delta does as a company. Delta companies.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Yep. Inc. Inc. Yeah. Trademarked. I think Delta, uh, for my my uh personal opinion and what I see and what I think you all do. I think you're a large company. I put you on the on the large company scale of things. I think you're massive. Lot of a lot of people, a lot of that mean. Just like what's large? Um, I don't know, lots of employees. And you ask me what's lots many? I I don't know. I assume I assume you all are like nationwide or at least like you know, in in in at least 20 states. I picture y'all with you know over a thousand people, employees at least, maybe maybe tens of thousands, I'm not sure. Um, what you do from my best memory recollection and what I see out of Delta, I think you all are an asphalt company. Because I think you're a large company. My guess is you're probably not like the company I'm gonna call to come like re-asphalt my little HOA road out here in the country. I think you're probably doing like large commercial projects and public, large public projects, maybe. That would be my that would be my uh rundown of what I think Delta Company does, a very large company that does very large projects in the asphalt and other industrial areas of the world.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

What's other industrial exactly? Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:56

If I was just taking a stab at the dark, I would say the Delta's companies is a vertically integrated highway and side development contractor specializing in paving road construction materials and heavy highway construction, based in Cape Jardo, Missouri, serving parts of Southeast Missouri, North Arkansas, and parts of Illinois. Is that on our website? Uh that is what um Google AI gave me. But no, I have you guys as a supplier of um road work and highway supply. Um good. How do you supply road work? Highway supply. No, no, no. I'm talking like asphalt at the dark like cars? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. A supplier of those that that um like a mod if they need asphalt drive. Oh yeah, okay. A supplier of that, you jerkwads. Um nice save. Yeah. No, like uh you guys uh I don't know if you own or manage or just strictly get and third-party wholesale or whatever. How many of them? Manufacture. Manufacture the the like quarries, but the uh I would assume I know that it that's an aspect of what you guys do. No, I think you guys supply the the product that goes into like Jeff said, major roads, highway projects. If your car is driving and or parking on it, you guys have a hand in it.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Do you guys do you guys feel like you have do you feel like that's a representative viewpoint that the general public has? Or you have an unfair advantage because you know me and you're kind of here.

SPEAKER_04 4:50

Here's how I'd play that down. If I was to ask my wife, yeah, um that's not demeaning to my wife's intelligence, I just mean like she doesn't genuinely care about that kind of side. Yeah. I think she would roundabout say it has something to do with either asphalt or like rock. Oh, that's pretty good. I I would that would be my guess. That's pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

We probably have if if we're if we're close to being right, we probably have the advantage of um being in the the banking industry, which means we also are kind of required to have a pulse on things and know who the players are and what's happening. If we're not close, then um that has nothing to do with it. We're just wrong. No, I I think the average person probably wouldn't know what Delta does.

SPEAKER_04 5:40

Um It's also kind of cool that you can be that successful and the everyday person not know it. Like I I don't know, I find that cool. Okay. I I think that's a neat thing that you can the people that need to know who you are clearly know it. And I don't see you guys on a Super Bowl ad or on a fair point. Breakfast show commercial. Like I I I think that aspect is cool.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

So does that mean we're close? Were we close to the right answer?

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I would say you're you're pretty close. So like what we do is vertical, vertically integrated. I mean, Blake read it. Vertically integrated construction. I wasn't listening to what Blake said. Vertically integrated construction and materials company. So basically uh you guys both hit it, like your Modot projects, any highways, asphalt paving, stuff like that as our finished product at the very end. But along the way, like we buy crude oil, or it's the bottom of crude oil barrels basically to make uh asphalt cement. So that's like the black sticky tar type stuff. Uh then we own quarries to that we, you know, mine blast rock out of, basically turn big rocks into small rocks. And then an asphalt plant takes both the rocks and the asphalt cement, sticky tar, mixes, heats it up, mixes it together, and that makes asphalt. And then we uh like GC a lot of DOT projects to um actually pave roads, right? We could also do dirt work, so we could build like an entire job besides subcontracting, like I don't know, striping guardrail, uh random things like that, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Right on. So so what is the bottom of a barrel called? Like in the crude oil? Sticky tar? Is that the sticky target? I think so.

SPEAKER_04 7:43

It's not the same as bourbon Jeff.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Scientific term. Just asking. Yeah. Good design.

SPEAKER_04 7:48

I feel like I'm also skewed because I've got two buddies that work for SEMO ReadyMix, and yeah, I've got a buddy that works for Buckley. Oh, yeah. You're very skewed. Yeah. So I I I kind of have a little bit of You're all in the industry. Yeah, I eat, sleep, and breathe. Yeah. Rock and vertical vertical integration.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Name dropping over here.

SPEAKER_04 8:06

Yeah, he is. He I mean, I'm wondering here, I get to I get to meet with you on the personal level quite a bit. Um, why do you like your your gig so much? Uh you you're very invested in your job and you you portray that pretty well. What what what like what drives you to going back each day? I genuinely care.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

I mean, because you you put it up, you're a very good steward of your job. Like it it's obvious. The smooth roads is what gets him going back to his work every day.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Like I said, marketing. So I think what I've what I often tell people, Jeff and I have had this conversation now that he's in a construction adjacent uh role, is that the construction industry is very addicting once you're in it. And I think it's because it's like blue-collar culture, you're seeing something be built from the ground up, and so there's a lot of pride in that. And um, it's like a lot of big equipment and like operating quarries is big, you're blowing stuff up basically, you're using massive machinery, and so especially for a lot of people, like your inner little kid comes out like, oh, this is really cool. Yeah. And then from like a finance standpoint, um, you know, because the industry is so big, you're dealing with like pretty large numbers typically. It doesn't mean that your margins and bottom lines are large, but all your math to get there is large numbers. And the other side of it, like keeping me coming back day to day in an office and in my role is really just like culture that we have built within our team. So um, you know, everybody that I work with and talk to within our company on a daily basis is uh is fun to work with. I really don't have any downer conversations. The topics may be downers, but it's not downers because of the people that I have to converse with. And so I'm pretty proud of the culture that we've built where people enjoy coming to work. They have the freedom to do, you know, what they think is right, and we try to empower like all of our people within operations, you know, in the office and in operations to make the decisions that they think are right, to stop work if they think it's unsafe, to reward employees if they uh think that it's necessary or or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

So are you allowed to share um some sort of roundabout figure what what annual revenues would be for Delta companies?

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Um yeah. I mean, we do like a hundred and fifty million a year in revenue, basically. So none of that's you know, a lot of the work that we do is public through DOT. And I think a lot of people probably don't realize that DOT, just like a lot of other city, county, and state stuff is all public information. Sure. Like you can go see what projects are they call it let to bid or like available put out to bid, right? So the DOT is choosing what projects they're going to perform or pay for. They put them out to bid. You can see all contractors that pulled plans and bid on them and their dollar amounts. Gotcha. Right. So um what we, you know, we've done DOT work typically, historically, makes up the majority of our revenue. And so what we're actively trying to do is diversify some of that so that you're we're not so dependent on what's voted in by public and what DOT funding is. You're not so dependent on government revenue, right? You can kind of make a commercial name for yourself and like um we would pave HOA roads.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Really? Because I I've got a massive like $12,000 project here in the neighborhood if if you guys are interested.

SPEAKER_04 12:16

Well, we can bid it. All right. Yeah. To do the product or the actual like lane. The whole thing. Really? Okay. Yeah. I have another question for you. Like, who we've really turned. Thanks. Welcome to Jeff and I's podcast. He flipped the table. Um I'm just letting it happen.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Who are who are the other side of the surface?

SPEAKER_04 12:36

If you can if you can if you can share if you're comfortable, like whatever, like what's a competitor to you? What is a competitor? Yeah, I obviously someone else that does the same thing as you.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Should I look up the Google definition?

SPEAKER_00 12:49

To whom would you consider your competitor? Someone with whom you compete against. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Well, like anybody for us, because we're vertically integrated, there's competitors along the scale. Like it there's people supplier, the provider, the Yeah, exactly. Like not all not all of our competitors are vertically integrated. So if we're talking about DOT projects or paving or bidding commercial work, like parking lots, roads, driveways, whatever, it would be anybody that's an asphalt paving contractor in the area. Gotcha. Um if it's asphalt, like solely asphalt plant and selling, it'd be anybody that owns and operates an asphalt plant. Are there many of those local?

SPEAKER_04 13:33

I think that's initially where my mind went.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Um there's there's a lot of there's a decent amount of asphalt paving contractors. There's fewer asphalt plant suppliers.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

That's where probably so are you supplying some of those other pavers, paving companies? Okay. Yeah. There are how do you all feel about that? You're supplying your own competition?

SPEAKER_01 13:56

I mean, it's interesting. That's the advantage of being vertically integrated, right? Yeah. Is you at any point in that process, we're supplying ourselves or external competition. Yeah. So I think the viewpoint for that is if you're not gonna get the final product of the work, you may as well get some of it. At least get a piece out of it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

So it's yeah. So the mindset's got to be you know, we may be willing to pave the HOA road out here for a certain price, but if somebody's willing to do it cheaper, you still get a piece of it.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

We would like to. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Um so asphalt plants, there's fewer suppliers, quarries, like aggregate facilities, there's um probably close to as many quarry competitors as there are asphalt paving contractors. Makes sense. And I think that's just a product of like where we live and operate and our geology. Like I always joke with people, you can basically just take a stick of dynamite and and throw it, and you'll probably uncover some pretty sweet rock here. That rocks. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Um Wow. And then there's if you go all the way back to like the liquid terminal where we're making asphalt cement, taking the oil products and stuff, there's very few competitors for that.

SPEAKER_03 15:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Just because it's a very high dollar, high risk uh part of the business, you have to have a ton of storage to be able to do it. You have to be able to like modify products and you have to have uh I mean you have to be able to have enough cash to do it and then hold the inventory, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:37

So speaking of cash and kind of the URL's business model, have how has like the volatility in oil prices, crude prices, affected you all for the last, you know, 30, 60 days since the US-Iran war? I know there's been a lot of volatility there.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

It's very volatile. Like we knew as soon as that happened, we you know, that kind of trickles down all of the oil products. Um so like what people would most be most familiar with or see is like gas and diesel prices, right? Sure. Like they went up. It's all because um oil at its very origin, crude oil prices are so volatile because of the war and uh or conflict, I guess I should say. Fair.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Yeah. Uh and uh it's like whenever uh I shouldn't name them. It's whenever people in my life that are married, that's not my wife and I, whenever they they don't argue apparently, they bicker.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Yeah. Oh, bicker. Yeah. There's a difference, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Yeah, it's a difference between war and conflict.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Yeah, sure. Yeah, true. Um so the that volatility just starts with one supplier at the beginning and that just gets passed on down the chain. Crazy. So like it's tough for us to lock in any pricing for people, including ourselves, because we don't know what it's gonna be whenever we buy it. All we can see is the market going up and down and up and down and wildly all over the place, right? So the best possible position you could have been in leading up to this was have inventory. True. Because then you're not dependent on on buying it at this volatile price. But you know, that's a pipe dream for a lot of people. It's not a good thing. It's also gonna be hard to account for, right? Like, I mean, to project game plan for well, yeah, it's really hard to quote anybody. It's really hard to quote finished goods because um you basically just have to, you know, like what the DOT does is they call it an indexed pricing. So basically each month they say, okay, well, market value of oil or whatever is this price, and um whatever work you do in that month, we will adjust to that index price. Right? So we'll pay you market value for that product. And basically that's how you have to quote people in this crazy volatility. Yeah. You say here's your base price, and yeah, I mean it's basically just like a HELOC or anything like that. Like it's a variable rate, yeah.

unknown 18:18

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

So you're not doing any hedges, I guess, against uh the fluctuations.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Well, I mean, I guess kind of hedging would have been like purchasing beforehand and building inventory, right? To some degree. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Yeah. I mean, we also buy like bulk fuel and stuff, so we have that. Okay. Like contracts. Um that would be drastically affected right now by the same thing. So any any oil byproduct or downstream product from crude oil is like insane right now.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Right. So whenever whenever I go fix my uh HOA road, and uh yeah, I am the president of the HOA out here, just so you know. Okay, we were wondering so as a as as as we fix the road, you know, what we thought was gonna cost 12,000 when we find out it's gonna cost like let's be reasonable. Let's say, you know, sixteen thousand. Well, I think your estimate was probably low to start with, but fine seventeen thousand, whatever seventeen thousand. Now that you know they do it, probably and and the the homeowners out here are like, man, why the jump? I can have them call you. Well, they could just listen to this podcast. Or they could listen to the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

Yeah. Volatility.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Yeah. Both. Well, I mean, they're obviously going to listen to the podcast, and at the end of it, I suspect you're gonna post your like phone number or your personal phone number so they can call you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Um, okay. I got questions for you now. Okay. So in a previous episode, we talked about like what your guys' background and roles are. How do you think your current roles in industries would play into our industry? Unpack that a little bit. What do you what do you mean? So, like your role, let's talk about probably easier, more straightforward is easy equipment zone, right? So, how would what your work how would what Easy Equipment Zone does play into our industry?

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Well, it it at the end of the day, you know, what we're doing is we're we're buying heavy construction equipment. Um I I don't think it's any secret. What what we buy is is through Equipment Share. So Equipment Share is a Missouri-based company out of Columbia, Missouri. Um, we buy equipment from them that's in their rental fleet, and we negotiate rates and terms um from them, and then we we sell that to our clients. And so, you know, our main focus is really, you know, what's happening in the equipment industry. Um, you know, Equipment Share does a great job with technology, they're their tracking, their maintenance. Um, they've got a really robust product uh with technology, um how that interacts with what you all do, I think it's really specific to equipment. So anytime that you're going out to to rent uh equipment, I hope it's through equipment share. And chances are if you're running through equipment share, there's there's a decent chance that it's uh equipment that's uh passed through easy equipment zone and and something we have under our our management umbrella. Um so that that's our main focus. Um outside of that, you know, I think about all of the equipment that transports up and down are very smooth roads. And that's thanks to you all. So so it's really a big thanks to you that you know our equipment isn't taking a bumpy ride, it's not bouncing off the trailers, and so I just really appreciate Delta for the smooth ride you provide for all of us.

SPEAKER_04 21:33

Yeah, appreciate it. Well, um, and a less complimentary answer, um equally as appreciative. Um I think mine is probably all enclosed like all encompassing.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:49

Uh with banking, we're simply put, we're we're providing deposits for a company like yours if they need it, and loan funds for either a company like yours. For expansion, growth, or timing gaps, and or the people that are either using or benefiting from your project, like your product. Like it's not that's the simplest way I could put it is I I might have asphalt companies that utilize your product and or are a competitor in some form. Um we may have um hell, there might be a quarry that wants startup. Yeah. Do you finance many quarries? Uh kidding. No comment.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

Don't answer that.

SPEAKER_04 22:32

Uh the 12 I I have a real specialty in the asphalt and quarry industry and asphalt land. Yeah. Um asphalt and asphalt.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Well it's probably true for both of us. Neither Blake or I can leave our house. We don't live in the same house, just to be clear. Our houses were different places in Cape County, but neither one of us could live our house without driving on you.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Yeah, correct. On me.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

Oh, I mean on on on your product. Yeah. On on your product. There it is. We're both on asphalt pro asphalt lanes. Correct. Yeah. I would imagine.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Yeah. It's a lot of the industry is uh super dark, I think, because it's not something that you think about. Like it's not something you cognitively think about every day. It's just the same thing as like you just walk out to your car every morning and expect it to start.

SPEAKER_04 23:19

It's like a source material. It's like what I said earlier. It's not something that you have to advertise. It's people, it's like an inherent need. Yeah, yeah, true. For sure. For sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

So I think a better example would be like whenever I come home and I expect electricity to be on. I don't know if I always expect my car to start, but I do expect my electricity to work.

unknown 23:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Yeah. But you really think about that. That whole industry, like I agree with that. There's whole companies that install those lines and make sure that the whole grid's working. I mean, I think that's how I see you all. It's that infrastructure, the backbone of that's a better comparison. I don't know if it is or not.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

No, it is. Yeah, correct. Yeah. You don't really think about you driving on it. And when you come home, to your point, you flip your light switch, you just expect it to come on. You don't really have to understand or care how electricity works. Right. Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 24:20

But I become an expert if it doesn't come on.

unknown 24:22

Okay. Correct.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Well, it's like screwdrivers.

SPEAKER_04 24:24

I I would say with roads, like I if you ask the everyday Missourian, it's like, what do you think about roads? The first thing would be like Modot. Well, I would have guessed that Modot has their own supply chain.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Yeah. So I mean that's the only thing. Oh, true, yeah. And every DOT is different. So it's kind of it's pretty interesting. Yeah. Like um Modot and R Dot, which would be Arkansas's DOT. Not everyone uh designs their own projects and then like also inspects it, which those our two DOTs do, Missouri and Arkansas. But if you go somewhere like Florida, Florida actually uh uses third-party consulting and design firms to design their projects and then also to inspect them. So they're still letting them the same way uh to you know, prime contractors and stuff to perform them, but it's not designed or inspected internally by the DOT.

SPEAKER_04 25:23

Coolest thing about my job, the thing Jeff may miss, not speaking for him, it is awesome to hear people be so knowledgeable about their field. Like that is the coolest thing about what I do. I I'm just part of up hearing a bunch of people's stories or information on their job. So like hearing you is it's very cool. Like I would never even considered thinking about that. Oh, yeah, yeah. That is it's and it's cool to me that you know enough to compare that to Missouri roads and Missouri infrastructure. Oh, sure. Yeah. I I think that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

And to that point, I mean, you know, you you travel to some of some of some of our surrounding states. I mean, I feel like I don't want to call anybody out by name, like Illinois or Arkansas, but whenever you drive through some of these other states, it's like you feel kind of lucky to live in Missouri in some ways. Like there's there's some rough stretches of roads in in surrounding states. And a couple spots on the way to Memphis that you're in. Exactly. At least here in Southeast Missouri, like we're pretty fortunate.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

And in most of the places I travel, Missouri, I feel like we're our infrastructure is much better than the main interstates are better, but I would actually say that we've struggled as a state to pass additional funding to continue improving it because the transparency of where the funding is going has lacked. Whereas Arkansas has put a lot more of their money to infrastructure use, like in front of people's faces, right? So that's how you end up getting people saying, oh yeah, well pay an additional quarter percent in tax or whatever, because I can see my money going to use. So it is pretty wild to think that Missouri DOT's budget is about 20% higher probably than Arkansas's annually, but Arkansas has I mean, I wouldn't even know what the percentage is, but a fraction of the population in like large cities. So Missouri, if you think about it, has St. Louis, Kansas City, and Springfield, like three massive um metropolitan areas and huge interstates to supply them. Arkansas really has Little Rock and Fayetteville, uh Rogers, North the whole Northwest Arkansas area, and then Jonesboro, Arkansas, is like their third or fourth largest city. So it's pretty wild just to see the the differences in how like state governments and and businesses are ran. Arkansas more of a visionary Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Yeah. So how what are your thoughts then as far as our infrastructure goes in our state? The sales tax versus the state income tax. Do you all have a stance at Delta? No, I wouldn't better.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

I don't even know enough, honestly, to make a comment on that.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

I was trying to put Seth on the spot.

SPEAKER_04 28:28

I was really looking for a political stance there.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Yeah. It's interesting though, you compare um Arkansas with a higher budget in population, which which on one hand makes sense. It's where the taxes come, it's from people. But then there's got to be a measure of like roads, right? Like how many miles of roads Berkeley Arkansas have versus uh lane miles.

SPEAKER_04 28:54

There you go. So that's data that you guys have.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Well, I think it's public DOT data. I just mean it's data that you care about. Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah. I mean you would look at like it would it would be no different than like deciding where to invest or open a business somewhere. Like that's one of the things you'd look at is like funding per population or funding per lane mile or something, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:17

So in Missouri, when you look at lane miles. Yes, correct. When you look at lane miles in Missouri, serious question. So like in Cape County, I I give Cape County a lot of credit. I'm from Perry County.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

If you look at county roads, Cape County, Cape County are are by and large almost all paved. The county roads in Cape County roads are mostly paved. Like I would guess 90% plus. In Perry County, it would be an absolute opposite, right? Like less than 10% of the county roads in Perry County would be paved. Yeah. So I'm curious whenever whenever you think about lane miles or your industry or the state or however that would work, when you think about lane miles, what do you take into consideration there? Would you take those those dirt slash get gravel county roads in Perry County? Are those considered part of the equation that are that are unpaved?

SPEAKER_01 30:09

No, because there you would look at like what's actually paved, right? So some some stuff in Perry County is just gravel. Right. Some is a chip seal product. So they put gravel down, then they spray it with emulsion, which is a tar, basically. It's just a cheaper way to quote unquote pave it. Yeah. Blake's always at the bank. You want a good alternative. How about you ever thought about chip sealing? My buddy's vertically integrated.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

Go see him. It's actually a topic that came up at our HOA last year, so I'm familiar with that. Was chip seal? Chip seal.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Uh I think it can be done well. The final product can be fine. Sometimes the process of doing it's messy.

SPEAKER_04 30:52

I feel like we answered your question pretty What was my question? Pretty well about the what is what do we think about it? Yeah, what do you think? I agree.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

I agree.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

So it's I think that it's better in general than I thought going into starting this podcast and being in the industry because I would have assumed that the majority of people did not know the difference between asphalt and concrete, like especially when you're driving on it. But we presented at a First Friday coffee a month or two ago. And I would say the majority of the room seemed like they already knew the difference. So I was impressed. Nice.

SPEAKER_04 31:33

To my point, I think that is rather impressive because you guys aren't. Yeah, sure. Kudos to you all.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Well, that it's not, you know, you don't have a ton of end users like selling a toothbrush. Correct. Right? No, it's all relative, but would you have more? Huh? Would you have more end users? Correct. Not directly. Oh. Not you're not buying like a specific part of the road you're driving on.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Well, I mean, I have bought specific parts of the road that I drive on in my neighborhood. More than more end users, less end consumers. Well, I mean, I I just think that purchasers, yeah. I've bought more of the road that I use than I'd have any of the toothbrushes that I use. I get a free one from the dentist every year.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Well, it's not free. It's okay, so it's all the same thing, right? Like I guess technically you own I guess you technically own parts of the roads because you're paying taxes.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

You'd mentioned at a previous episode. That whenever you're thinking about budgets, like this year's soil predictable. But you know, two, three, four years down the road, that's maybe a little more challenging, maybe a little more fun to think about. So when you think about two, three, four years down the road, what are you thinking about?

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Uh larger footprint, more uh expanded scopes of work, and uh you know, maybe acquiring competitors.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Okay. No, so we expanded work. So is that expansions within Modot? Footprint. A footprint. So within within Modot, are you trying to get into iDot? I mean obviously that's closer.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

No, no, no. We we used to operate in Illinois um and we no longer do, but the footprint was You still have those receivables though, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

That's a good joke.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

I thought so.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

Did you expand on that? No, I'm joking. Yeah, you want me to Google the definition of a receivable? No, no, I was I was talking about the state, not the um Yeah, so it's like expanded footprint within Southeast Missouri with Modoc, because there's only so much funding that Modot gives to certain counties. So to, you know, do more of that work, you're just gonna have to expand where you're actually working. Um but then also getting more into commercial work helps. Um and we've looked at, you know, shipping material outside of our footprint. So not, you know, paving with it or being us being the end user, but shipping it outside of our footprint.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Are the there logistical challenges to shipping it outside? Like does that stuff have to stay hot for uh asphalt, yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

But I guess most of that would be aggregates that you'd be shipping outside. Yeah. I mean, you could like around here it's not common because it's warm enough, you can just do like regular tarps on dump trucks and transport asphalt maybe uh an hour and a half, two hours, but that's really pushing it. But you know, like out west, some of our sister companies, like in Wyoming and stuff, it's cold and super windy. So they actually have like insulated beds and insulated tarps so that they're actually they're carrying material four hours, four or five hours, whatever, because you really have no other choice because it's so remote. Right. Yep. Wow, fascinating. Crazy, right? It is crazy. Um I was gonna add I was gonna do like a little role play segment. Like perked up. Blake just came back. Uh so if you were say we were lining up like a large commercial project, right? You're trying to close a big deal. Uh if you're acting as your current role that like you're performing within your company, but you're doing it for Delta, what are you looking at in like a large project? Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 35:45

No. Yeah. Ask again. Wait, Blake's got it. Let it let him go. He was third in his class. He understands the things better than I.

SPEAKER_04 35:53

Appreciate that. T up, Jeff. Um, just the difference in advance versus parry bill education. Um if you had a a high scale project, a few of the questions I would ask is um for my specific job. Um, are there are there uh can we have your accounts that you know are part of that? Uh always looking for deposit accounts. Is there an offset in what cash you have available or what you're getting paid and when you're gonna receive the cash? That would be a f a funding opportunity for me as a loan. And then what are your who are your uh contractors? If you have contractors, if it's not you all, uh do they, you know, can I get uh an opportunity to meet and connect with them? And then even down to the person paying for the job, whether it's Modot or a the iDot, the uh fourth president of the HOA out here. Um, how are they getting their funding?

SPEAKER_01 36:58

I mean, there those are all where my brain I may not act on all of them, but that's where my brain You're using that as like uh uh long-term questions or gain for whether you want to assume the risk of lending money for the project.

SPEAKER_04 37:13

Yeah, very much so.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:14

Um yeah, because at any level, probably at every level, but I don't assume that, but at any of those levels, someone's gonna need a they're gonna have some gap in their in the funding to have the idea and and figure out what get the end product. So if there's a short-term gap, a long-term finance opportunity, I mean there's I could I could really go crazy deep on that one.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

But yeah, no, I mean this is your everyday job. Yeah. So I figured you would be ready. Yeah. Jeff is a new CFO. What would you be looking at like as a large deal for you? You can relate it to Easy Equipment Zone because that's like your everyday job, right? So as a CFO, what are you looking at? Not HOA pro to assess, analyze a project, make sure that you're covered from like a risk standpoint, whether you want to undertake it at all, and like what's your you know, pain points may be during the project.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Yeah. So so from my perspective, what I'm looking at is is it it's kind of similar. I mean, it's it's nice to come from the banking banking background and be a CFO because I am also trying to measure the risk, um, but I'm also trying to measure the strategy. I think that's probably probably the two things that I think about the most. And so a large project, whether it's a sale or whether it's uh an expansion or a new company we're looking at, um, it's really measuring, you know, what's the cash outlay, aka the risk, right? What what what are we what are we putting up um from a risk standpoint? What's our potential return? And then thinking about like what can go wrong, and if if things go wrong, like again, what what's our exposure, how much money is coming out of our business, how much money is coming out of our pocket um to do that. So so similar to banking, that's that's probably why the CFO role in some ways is is a natural progression. Um, it is still measuring the risk and reward. Um and so I think that's that's every every large project, every type of expansion, um, that's what I'm trying to measure. Risk and reward. And then also thinking about okay, if if there's a 25% that this risk happens, like what are the levers we have to pull to get out of it? How do we how do we sort of steer clear or um react? Um if something happens, right? Yep. We we we can't wait till it happens and be reactive. So it's it's that that proactive strategy of say, okay, three three things are gonna happen with this project. It can go really well as we expect it, and life's good. Or we're gonna hit this snag, and here's what we're gonna do if it happens, or we're gonna hit this snag, and this is you know how we react about it. Yeah, so that that's really where I spend much most of my time.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

That makes sense. It's a great answer. I hope so.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

Yeah. Uh what is something our industry could improve moving forward from general public point of view?

SPEAKER_04 40:07

Easy answer for me from building the house and seeing people in the construction industry industry every day that maybe use you as a in-source or a a source material or something like that, or using you as the contractor or whatever it may be is like we like rates go up, but we can directly tie it to Fed funding or prime or whatever and and the volatility of that. Um something like a a material, which is what I think the everyday person thinks of you guys as maybe is like, okay, we're getting the same exact product but the price may be one dollar or forty-five dollars. And that's a tough that's a tough thing, and I don't know how you do it. I just think that's the court of public opinion. For sure, yeah. And and I don't again, I don't know how you how you ever do that. I just mean that is the to me the everyday layman's person, layman uh mindset is like why am I paying one day X and three months later quadruple for the these same products not like I'm getting a more reinforced better product presumably it's like that I think that is the yeah, that's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

Education and transparency basically. Correct. Yeah. Because we would argue that you are getting a better product, but the fact that you don't think that you are is an education failure. I would think. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I that's a good answer.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

What do you think? I think blank headed transparency, you know, you if you think about where we're at from let's call it the the court of public perception, the court of the taxpayer. I I think what you're going to see and starting to see is is really this accountability back to our our local, state, and federal governments, you know, are are the taxes we're paying being spent wisely? I think that that's a question that I think anecdotally people have asked for years, but you know, what you're starting to see like in Minnesota with the with the leadering centers, for example, you're starting to see some accountability and some momentum around accountability. So I think, you know, what what's what I'm concerned about if I'm Delta is is exactly what Blake said, which you said is is transparency. You know, are we getting a good product for a good price? If the answer is yes, and that can be quickly like determined in some way, like I don't think you'll have many taxpayers concerned. Because really at the end of the day, I would imagine many of the dollars that that you all collect are are are tax dollars in some form or fashion, being being sort of the supplier for Modot is in a in a large way. Um so I think that's that transparency, that understanding, that education, that's a big piece of it. Um and I'll I'll take it down to a small level. Again, I know we joke around about you know HOA and in in the roads out here where I live, but you know, the reality is if I go get a quote to repair a stretch of road and it's fifteen thousand dollars, I have no idea if that's a good price or bad price. For sure. How do I compare that? What what do I look at? You know, so it's it's in in some regards you're a commodity, and the fact that, you know, just the infrastructure we have to have it. Um life, I think the way we live it suffers without what you provide. So it's so in that sense it's a commodity, but in the other sense, like I have no idea. I know it's tied to oil, right? But I have no idea really what goes into it. I have no idea really how you determine prices.

SPEAKER_04 43:57

I don't think most people do though.

SPEAKER_00 43:59

I don't think No.

SPEAKER_04 44:00

People would think like, oh, it's definitely Todd.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

I think that's his point.

SPEAKER_04 44:05

Yeah, that's that's my point. I'm reiterating. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

I think around this table we have some understanding that's how it would work. But I think the average person probably wouldn't think about I mean, I I've got a an 18-year-old daughter who complains like, Why is gas four dollars and thirty-nine cents right now? I'm like, well, because we're kind of in a conflict. It's like, well, what's that mean? Get over it. So so you know, I th I I think I think, you know, there's this perspective of like there are natural fluctuations in markets that maybe we understand, but there are also those fluctuations that I'd say a good portion of the population maybe don't understand those fluctuations. And so you know, should should it be Delta's job to educate that? Honestly, no. But the reality is that's that's probably where you end up at some point.

SPEAKER_04 44:58

Yeah. You also get the the issue of like, if I hire an asphalt layer at my Is that the right term?

SPEAKER_00 45:07

Asphalt layer?

SPEAKER_04 45:08

Paver, sure. Paver contract and asphalt asphalt installation. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_04 45:12

A layer of asphalt, a uh a paver of asphalt. If I hire a company to come out and do it at my HOA, um Are you president? Hell no. I am uh at my home. You know what the response is most time? What my point is it's not always on you guys, is that that contractor is gonna say, like, yeah, the the person providing it probably won't even call you by name, but like where we get our materials, yeah, they raise their price most for sure. And that's like an uncontrollable to you.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

Everybody will always say that and pass the buck to the next person for sure. Exactly. Yep, yeah, exactly. Anyway, yeah, good stuff. Thanks for sitting in again. Thank you. If y'all enjoyed the episode, please rate our show and leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, and check out Delta on all social media platforms at Delta Companies, and our website at Delta C O S looks like Deltacos.com. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week.