Communicating Effectively Using Storytelling & Analogies with Brad Collins

In this episode of On the Surface, Seth sits down with Brad Collins, Vice President of Finance and Development at Colas, to discuss his career journey and how leadership perspectives evolve over time. Brad shares how he found his way into finance, the importance of timing and intentional decision-making, and why being willing to say “no” to certain opportunities can be just as important as saying “yes.”

A central theme of the conversation is growth. Brad and Seth explore the idea of reassessing your direction every few years, pushing yourself into new challenges, and how roles naturally shift as your career progresses. Moving from detail-oriented work early on to strategic thinking in leadership, Brad explains how the skillset required at each stage is different—and why success depends on adapting along the way.

The discussion also focuses heavily on communication and its impact across an organization. Brad shares practical insights on how to communicate more effectively by meeting people where they are, adapting to different communication styles, and providing context so messages are clearly understood. He emphasizes that strong communication isn’t just about what you say, but how and when you say it.

Throughout the episode, they highlight how communication acts as a bridge—translating complex ideas into something relatable and actionable for others. Combined with feedback, self-awareness, and curiosity, this ability becomes a key driver of both personal growth and organizational success. It’s a practical conversation that reinforces a simple idea: the better you communicate, the more effective you become.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Welcome back to On the Surface. I'm your host, Seth Stevens, and this week I'm sitting down with Brad Collins, Vice President of Finance and Development with Coloss to discuss his background and exploring ways to improve communication. But first, let's talk about feedback. If you haven't already, please go follow, rate, and review our show on whatever listening app you're using, and share it with your friends on social media, tagging Delta Companies or any of us individually. All right, let's get into the conversation. What's your background?

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Well, so uh interestingly, so I I as a young gentleman, I uh played a lot of music in the and I went to college uh thinking I just needed to go there and kind of get myself straight. And I uh actually chose accounting because it was the first thing listen under A on the administrations thing. But uh thinking I was like, I was like, I'm good at math, I'll try to figure that out and I'll be okay. And then I was a year in and thinking, okay, I'll get all my gen ed stuff and then kind of transfer. And I was like, actually, this is not so bad. So did that and that was great. And then I worked for the uh I worked for the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development for one year, and it was like the most boring job of all time because you'd get my I'd get my work done in like 25 hours. You had like weeks worth of work, right? You have to do this, and I'd get it done in 25 hours. And uh it was a union job, and they would I'd be like, okay, does anybody else have anything for me to do? And and people were just like, don't even come at me with this trying to take my work stuff out. Oh, you just go and figure some. So I'd be like, Well, what do you want me to do? And they would all just give me money and I have to go buy loose cigarettes. So they'd send me some gas station, I'd buy like $20 of loose cigarettes, I'd come and distribute it like the mail person. It's like, here you go, here's your four Newports, and here's your three, you know, Virginia slamps. It's like so. So after I took my like civil service exam and uh to like get you that's what you had to take to get to the next level. So I took it and I got a crazy, I got like a really good score on it. I went to my boss. I was like, hey, I gotta kinda like to, you know, maybe look at the next look for the next job. And they were basically like, yeah, I mean, somebody's gotta die for that to happen. So I left and I went somewhere else and um it was good. It was a place that owned a couple hundred gas stations and convenience stores, and it was, you know, tell you a lot of the stuff, cost accounting and and really inventory management, maintenance and stuff. And uh they had sold or they were going to sell to a 7-Eleven or uh so they were like, hey, you know, it's six months, we kind of got this thing going on. You know, it might be time to look. And then so I got a job at uh Midland as a assistant controller, and then here she, here I am, you know, went went through there and as controller there for a little while, and then division controller, and then VP of Finance, and then CFO, and now here I am at Colos, I suppose. Yeah. I like it. That was the Cliff Notes version of it. I mean, you know, obviously part of career stuff, a lot of it's luck and a lot of it's timing and everything. I mean, you know, it's just I I mean, I guess I was fortunate to be in a position where ready to move at the right time and relocate my family and move back and things like that. I mean, it's just you know, a lot of it's how much you want it, and some of it's just luck and and timing. And I got fortunate enough to uh that's underselling it.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

What do you mean? I think it's uh I think saying it's luck is underselling it. I think it's a lot of people. I don't mean luck and just like I won the lottery and now I get to be the CFO, but it's just kind of a thing like where you were ready when opportunities came up, and there's probably a lot that you don't even think about or knew existed because you didn't focus on them because it just wasn't time to I always kind of had a philosophy where every five years I'd like do a look back and under think if I need a new focus or something.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

And I've kind of got fortunate that I haven't really been in the same role. I mean, I've been at the same company for 15 years, but haven't really been in the same role for more than five years. Like I think Division Controller was the one that I was in the longest, which I think was six years maybe or five and a half years or something like that. And then towards the end, that it was like, okay, what's the path? What's the next thing going on right now? And how what do I need to do to get there? It was always the question to ask yourself. Like, if you want to be here, what do you need to do to get there? And sometimes the answer's nothing. Sometimes it's sit and wait and be really good at your job and wait till an opportunity comes up. And, you know, I said no to a lot of jobs on the way up. I thought I share that with you. I mean, there's a lot of jobs at Colos that I said no to, that it was just like not the right time, not the right job, not the right location, certain things. Like I'm not, you know, I'm not beholden to I mean, like I think that that I have a pretty good, you know, feeling about what the next role is gonna be for me. And I'm not too set on money, like I don't really care all that much. Like coming from, I mean, like I grew up, you know, with not a ton of means. And so that's a you know, you have a pretty interesting relationship with that. Like you're happy to make what you make, and I'm not I'm not driven by that as much as maybe as maybe uh others, I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Well it's just like what you want to do. Yeah. And how much like what accomplishment you feel by doing it.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Yeah, and it's a work like bat work-life balance portion of it too, which is just that, you know, I really I mean, I yeah, I got young kids, and I the weekend is really for them and and my wife. It's not for me, and you know, I'm not gonna miss a softball game if I don't have to, or a gymnastics thing, or something like that. I mean, you know, when you're in a high-pressure job, there's a lot of stuff that comes with that. But really, I mean, I I think, you know, it's the realization that when you're six foot under, it's not gonna say I'm my tombstone, like he was really good. Uh he were, it was like the rock solid CFO or something. You know what I mean? It's gonna say great dad and husband and things like that. I mean, that's the stuff that actually matters, right? At the end of the day, you get fulfillment out of work for sure. It's not something that, like, you know, you when you're doing well, I mean, you get a lot of fulfillment out of that, but not as much as when your kids do something or you have some milestone in your work or life or relationship or something. That gives you so much more gas than anything else, you know?

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Mm-hmm. I agree. So Yeah, you walked through just now saying no to a lot of stuff, which is kind of supporting my it's not luck.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Right. And I guess maybe if I run it back, it's not luck more than it is timing, but there is a sense of you feel you appreciate that that timing worked out. So I mean I guess the luck is saying it's feeling. Yeah, the four I was fortunate that the timing worked out. Some of that is not it's not luck to say I was in the right position at the right time, but it is certainly to say that if it happens six months prior, maybe I'm not ready to take it, or maybe it's somebody else's more ready than me. And so there is an aspect of like you're f the fortunate that the timing worked out.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Yeah, yeah, things aligning. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Yeah. That's right. So it's not luck, but you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Yeah, yeah. I want to go back to your five-year kind of comment point, and I agree with you that uh five years for me has felt like a pretty good number as well. Yeah. Like I think the I think I was a regional controller for six, and by that last year, I mean a lot of the time was like, okay, well, what's next? What can I line up for being next?

SPEAKER_01 7:51

It's I mean it's not it's also not like you don't necessarily have to change jobs. I just think that something has to change. You have to have a new focus or re-energize every five years.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

You can get involved in different stuff. You can be you can have a different challenge put in front of you in the same Yeah, right. Um but it's like relating that back, it's the 10,000 hour rule is five years, typically. If you're looking at a 2,080 hour year, that's right. You're at the 10,000 hours, which is 10 years. You're not really good at math, but I'll touch you on that one. Well, I checked it on my calculator. Perfect. Um Yeah, it's it's pretty that's a pretty proven number that you get you like master loose quotes, a craft, right? And then you can really advance from there within your craft. Yeah. There's actually a really good Malcolm Gladwell book about that. I've read it. Yeah, it's good.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Yeah. I actually'd like to read some of that kind of stuff. Malcolm Gladwell. You can read? I read with my ears. So not exactly with my eyeballs. Yeah, not with my eyeballs. I read with my ears. It helps me with the bigger words. I like it.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Yeah. Okay, so um what was your favorite position so far in your 15 year span?

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Oh, I don't know. I mean, that's a tough question because uh, I mean, I like them all for different reasons, you know. I mean, from a pure strategy perspective, it's so different when you're at a region. I mean, you're day-to-day really ingrained in a space very specific set of boundaries, and this is what we do, and this is where we work, and this is this. When you move up, you know, you're it it kind of expands more and more, you know, and and when you get to like I mean, the analogy would be like if you're a good accountant or a controller or assistant controller, you're like part detective and part mechanic, really like fixing processes and the way things work and stuff, and then part translator and understanding how what I do today, how that translates to operations and stuff. But you need to do totally different stuff when you get up to be CFO or VP or something like that. So the strategy is just different, right? Because you're then CFO, you're part economist, part strategy, part operator, because you really have to understand the business. You don't have to be able to go and run and do it, but you have to know what happens every day. And I think a CFO, too, is like an air traffic controller. You're trying to balance cash needs and investments and CapEx with performance goals and strategy and all that. And so um different positions at different times are more enjoyable for something. Like in early in my career, I would have hated that probably because I my focus was so maybe one-dimensional, and I was trying to get stuff done and trying to look at the general ledger and diagnose problems and fix a PL and do things like that. Now I would hate doing that, right? I mean, I that would just kill me because I just it just wouldn't I wouldn't want that to be my focus. So it's like, you know, every job you take, you maybe go your forecasting of what you need to look at goes up by one, right? Or or up by, you know, a factor of one or factor of two. So now, you know, if you're a CFO, you should be looking five, 10 years. I mean, you're not worried about today, other than to understand how today means what tomorrow's gonna be, right? And it's like, but trying to do that in early in your career, early in my career anyway, I really liked the idea of going and translating what things meant on the surface of a P ⁇ L to somebody in the field that's gonna help drive the strategy. Cause it's almost like when you're early in your career, you know, and a an uh an accountant or a controller a lot of times is generally the scoreboard and operations is are the this a team playing the game, right? But it's not like you can't if you you can't just stop worrying about the scoreboard because you're too busy playing the game, right? If you're the operations and if you're a football team, you can't just be like, okay, yeah, I'm not worried about the score because I'm too busy doing this. You have to understand how that translates into what you do now. You have to say, okay, is my strategy working? Can I change that? If I'm winning by a lot, do I change my strategy? If I'm losing by a lot, do I change my strategy? If it's, you know, in the fourth quarter of an NFL game, do you change your strategy? But it's like you have to know what's happening on the scoreboard to be able to understand how that translates to like what you do every day. And I liked explaining that to people. I really kind of liked the idea of um going into onto a job or to a plant and asking leading questions and saying, hey, FYI, this is where we're at right now. Where do you think we should be at? Let's start to track this and go forward and do these things. And I liked that. I don't think I'm in the position to do that now because I think it would it would be maybe the perception would be off, you know, to when you get to a certain role, you know, I'd be like Okay, the hammer, basically. But uh why do you think that you liked it? Well, I like relating to people, right? So I like talking to people and I like relating what they're doing to what I'm doing. I like interacting with people, I like understanding how puzzle pieces fit together. Okay. And so if I'm at a plant, if I'm at an asphalt plant or liquid terminal or something like that, and understanding inventory levels and what that means and purchasing methods and tons per labor hour, things like that helps me understand the total picture of the business and how I need to understand, you know, cash needs or all these things. So I don't know. I think I it's just like putting a puzzle together, and I kind of liked that aspect of it all.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

You're like generally curious too.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

I think that uh yes, I like to like know how things work. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

I would agree. It's uh You and I have been in conversations in the past, and we can start down one path, and seven minutes later we are on some totally different topic way down that road, like figuring out.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

And it's some annoying to some people, probably, because somebody says something in passing, and I'm like, wait, hold on. Why? What are you talking about? Like, well, how does that work? And then, oh, I didn't mean to say it just, you know, here's what I here's what happens, and this it's like, well, yeah, but how do you go from here to here and here? And it's uh I I like to kind of get down those rabbit holes. Yeah, for sure. And then, you know, I think also, you know, I started when I started, I was on the younger side. And I think when I was controller, I think I might have been 26 or something like that. And so it's not exactly easy to go in there and say, hey, you know, we need to change the way we do these things. And it helps if you can relate to people and understand it. They understand that you know the business. And that I'm not just saying this because that's what I think is right. We've talked about it. We came to an agreement. Somebody shed some light on some things I didn't understand. Perfect, great. I'll go think about that and see how that moves forward. But I I think that's part of it too.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Yeah. Um, I know that you like relating to people, communicating. That's gonna be our topic here in a minute, but I want to go back to one other thing you said. Yeah. About um enjoying the day-to-day role previously, like at a different time in your life, and now you don't think that you would enjoy it. And I would agree with that. But why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_01 15:22

I think that I would right or wrong perceive it as not a good use of my time. So I guess uh that is to say, like when I first started, I loved like reconciling accounts. I like to just get things to balance, look at a PL, make sure it's really good. I think right now, if I did it, it'd be a waste of my time. Because A, I'm not in the day-to-day transactions enough to know exactly why something happened. So I'm doing all this research and stuff. And I think that, you know, it's the whole perfection is the enemy of good enough. If I'm doing if I'm strategizing or I'm trying to figure out where we're gonna go, or I'm, you know, what new lines of business maybe we want to get in, what new areas we want to explore. I'm fine with good enough because I think good enough can give me 99% of the way there to figure out what I want to do. And so I don't want perfection and really analyzing or really reconciling certain things that get in the way of progress in that way. And maybe it would just slow it down. But my perception is that I just wouldn't, it would just be uh not to say annoying to me, but it would be I I just wouldn't be great at it anymore. Yeah. I think maybe I lost that tool in my toolbox, right? So it's all but different tools that you can use at different times, but I was probably really good at that. Like even, you know, some of the systems that we've used in the past, like reports now. Like at some point I used to be really good at that because it was my tool to do stuff. Now now I just call somebody if I need something because I'm just not as good as I used to be. I'm just not that tool is not sharp anymore. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

No, I get, yeah, I get that.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Because you don't practice it.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

But like, do you think it's because you could stay in that role? Yeah. You could have stayed in that role and continued to do that. So do you think it's like personality for you that you feel like I'll use the puzzle analogy because that's what you're talking about. You finish a hundred-piece puzzle, you're like, okay, well, I'm not gonna do this one again. Right. Like, let's go get a new puzzle. Ooh, I'm gonna bump it up to 250 or something, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Yeah, that I didn't think that's totally what it is. I mean, it's just it's in my nature to kind of push myself a little bit and try new things and get uncomfortable and all that. And so, yeah, I mean, I think once I am understand and proficient at something, I always want to try to get better and that's do more, you know, do something more difficult.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

And um, yeah, I like just that aspect of and then you become exposed to different things, you're learning new tools, so that ends up back to where your old tools become dull. That's right. You could figure it out if you get back in there long enough. But I could ratchet it up. It's really not worth your time.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Yeah. Like when we do, you know, some high-level cash forecasting or something, and we got to come up with credit lines with coloss or something, and that's a very, you know, heavily structured thing that you have to really kind of do in Excel. I mean, you can't just put your thumb up in the air and say, yeah, I don't know, we need X amount of millions of dollars in in credit. I mean, you really got to do the analysis. And so that's something I really gotta sit in a room and or it's just sit in my office and just do that. And then I've got we had a lot of people that also doing a similar thing and comparing notes and what am I missing? What are you missing? But yeah, you can ratchet it up if you need it every once in a while, but it's just not where my eyeballs first go to on the menu. You know what I mean? That this is this is the thing I gotta do. I I mean to me, and I and I again I like communicating and like talking and leading people and and and just generally forming bonds with people, and that's the that's not to say it's the opposite of that, but that's that's a very soloist sort of this is what I'm this is what I'm doing. Um and that's just not where my head is at right now.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Yeah. No, that makes total sense. I was gonna point out you did say you like to get uncomfortable. Yeah. Which is where growth comes from, right? Sure. At least in my experience, probably your experience. Yeah. You grow the most whenever you're uncomfortable. So like having that, figuring that out and f and um understanding and having that personality to push yourself a little bit into uncomfort uh can make you exponentially grow for sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Yeah, to a point. I mean, you have to understand your strengths and weaknesses. Like, for example, yeah, you know, I don't like public speaking is never an issue for me because of you know stuff I did earlier in my life, and it's like that doesn't bother me. That but that bothers a lot of people, and that's the uncomfortable thing for a lot of people. I just you gotta find a way to stretch yourself and you know, try. Here's something I don't know. You know, I maybe we want to grow in an adjacent market. I don't know anything about that. Okay, well, I'm gonna go drive around and see what's going on and talk to people, and yeah, maybe that makes you feel a little weird or something. But yeah, I just I don't know. I like that stuff. I like to feel a little uncomfortable. Very comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

I like it now, though. Yeah, good. That's how it's supposed to be. Good. Uh all right, so let's get into communication. So it's kind of a loose topic, but we we went back and forth on it a little bit before this. And um, you know, we're just kind of talking about like simplifying communication, making connecting with people, and a way to do that is to make sure that you can simplify and explain your job to other people and relate to them. So um, you know, you've already said that you feel like you're good at that, which I would agree with. You're like a just a natural communicator. Thanks, buddy. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Well, I think yeah, I mean, you know, you go through and when you when you look at in in construction, right? I think communication is one thing that whenever you do a survey as a company, what you know, what things are we do we need more of? Everybody always says communication because there's a tough understanding of that communication only goes to certain levels, and then you know, some people it's be worse if they knew more knowledge, right? I mean, if I told you every day where what jobs you're gonna work uh three days beforehand and it changed, you'd say, hey, what the heck? The thing always changes. Sure. So I just tell you day of, and you say, what the heck, I don't know what jobs we're gonna do until that day. It's it's like a six and one half dozen. But I think bad communication is the uh most expensive line on a job, right? I mean, it's just when you talk about from a foreman to a PM, estimators, construction managers, all that. I mean, bad bad communication can kill you, right? I mean, it really can. I mean, it it's you'd never in and really when you think about like in finance and financial statements and stuff or even job cost, I mean, they're they're the they're the plane. Right. You would never show up to a job or a highway job or something like that with no plans to that job and say, like, yeah, well, I don't know, we'll figure it out, right? Yeah. You can't do that. So, I mean, really good financial statements and really a budget, really more or less, and which is generally speaking the estimate uh from the job, but but even from a broader scale for a company, a budget is kind of like plans to a job. You have to have them and you have to be able to communicate that all the way down.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Yeah. So what's um have you thought you I mean you're good at this naturally, but have you thought consciously about how to do that? Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Uh yeah. I mean, so I I always think that you need to give people home field advantage if you're gonna communicate with them. So I always would go to them. I don't want to send an email. I don't want to call somebody into the office. I think that it's best done in person. So if I was curious about a job or curious about a plant or wanted to understand more information, I would always go to the plant, right? Because you give people that sense of comfort because they're in their normal habitat and they're that's where they are all day. If you're calling them somewhere or you're just communicating through email and they're reading it when they're, you know, doing something else, you know, maybe don't have their full attention, uh, or you, you know, have to talk to them somewhere else because you see them at a meeting or something, and maybe not have their full attention. So I just think like, if I'm gonna communicate with somebody, I like to go where they are, give them a home field advantage. Sure. And I think that that's a big point of it. And I think understanding how people like communication. Uh, you know, uh Stefan Mills has a great story about he worked with a plant guy, and he had asked the plant guy to ask him to look at some stuff. You know, they bonded over something, okay, can you look at these things for me? And he sent him this long email with a lot of really good information on it. And he talked to the guy like two weeks later, and the guy's like, Oh, yeah, I never checked my email. Sorry, I missed that. Like, what did you say again? Can you just tell me in person? And uh that's two weeks where the time went by that we could have been doing something. So you always it's understanding how people communicate. I'm sure you've had it in your in your career where some people like a text, some people like a call, some people like an email because you know they check their email when they're traveling or later at night. So an email works fine. Some people like a text, some people like don't text me, just call me. Yeah. Because I don't know contacts on all these things. And some people like a visit. But you have to understand how what each person likes. It's because it doesn't matter what you like, really. Yeah, you're right. You might be better at one mode of communication than the other, and that's understanding maybe flaws or gaps and something. So you may be a better verbal communicator than a written communicator, or when you write an email, you may be able to really look at it and refine it and then send it and perfect, boom, good communication. Then if you talk in person, you're more off the cuff. Understanding what is needed in each situation. If I have to send a really if I have to send an email to up or down the chain and it's really important, maybe I'll take my time and send an email. If I need to communicate with somebody, otherwise I'm more likely to call.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

You know.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

We have to I think there's a few things there. One communicating in all those different methods does it can be a pain in the butt.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Right? Yep. Uh but I think people that are good communicators understand that people like to be communicated with in different ways. So you go you take the time to memory bank who likes what communication and you make sure you deliver it to them in that form. And I think that helps with relations and opens doors that weren't open before.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

That's right. Yeah, and and you get to, I mean, understanding in communication that sometimes little additions to something can make a big difference. Like if I was, let's say we work together and I was your boss and I said, I sent you a text that said, Seth, I need you to call me when you get a chance. Or I sent a text that said, Hey, Seth, and hey Seth, I need you to call me when you get a chance. I just have a real quick question about such and such. For sure. These are very different. When you read it, you feel because it's the same text. I'm sending you the generally not the same text, but uh the same concept. But when you read that, you're like, oh my God, I don't know what's happening.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

Well, you gave context.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

Yeah, right. And I that's important. And it takes no extra time. Yeah. Uh realistically, it takes you 10 extra seconds to type or talk to type, like, oh, I just have a super quick question about next week's meeting. You know, what are your travel plans or something? Yeah. Just call me when you get a chance, versus, hey, I need you to call me when you get a chance, or please call me when you get a chance. I have to just So understand there's I mean, and you learn on the good. It's then somebody calls you and they're like, man, I thought I was in trouble.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Yeah, exactly. Well, I think one thing you said earlier is like knowing which ways you communicate best. So you kind of have to be a versatile communicator, also. Like really good communicators are versatile. They can communicate in a lot of different ways. But then to your last point there about giving context is like this is something I've learned over time, uh, you know, in just the communicate in the communication field is like people are always prioritizing their own schedule, right? And so they're not thinking about you before you communicate with them. So giving them context so that they can like prepare themselves and sort where that priority is in their current life or that day or whatever is important because, like you said, if you just send a message, if your boss sends you a message says, please call me when you have a chance, it's like, um, oh no, this might be bad, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Or it's like if it's something small and they say please call me to get a chance, but I may not solve it through a text. I mean, yeah, again, to my analogy of them saying, call me when you get a chance. I want to find out what time you're arriving at the meeting next week. I might be able to just text back. I get there Monday at 10.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So it's what I try to do now, which I think is a good advice for a lot of people, is um if I text or team's message or something like that to anybody, I'll say, hey, um, you know, do you have five minutes? I'll try to assess how long it's gonna take, right? I'm gonna give them the assessed time that I think it will take, the topic and maybe the question beforehand, so that I'm not blowing like 15 to 20 minutes of their time by calling them, then having to explain everything. And then at the end they're like, oh, well, I was right in the middle of doing something like super important, and now you threw me off. Because if I say, hey, I just need five minutes, I need clarification on this, um, just get back to me this afternoon, they could be like, okay, yeah, I'm right in the middle of something right now, I'll get with you in two hours, and that may be fine. Yeah. Right. So it's like respecting other people's time and giving that context in your communication of saying, hey, this is all I need, or maybe it is really important, or whatever, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, because it's you don't you don't want to waste anybody's time. You don't want to waste your own time too, but you don't want to waste anybody else's time. So I mean, I think that that's a that's a good way of doing it. And I mean, the challenge is, you know, if you say five minutes, it maybe sometimes isn't five minutes, right? Because sometimes it's like that goes into this, this goes into this, this goes into this, and maybe it's 20 minutes. So I mean, I try to keep that in mind too.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

Yeah. Um what el what other like lessons have you learned communicating? Or what are things that you do now that you did differently before?

SPEAKER_01 29:49

I think understanding uh where you're coming from on certain things, like you know, working in finance, it's it it I think it's transitioned. I mean, I think the job is different than it than it used to be, but um at least when I started, it was very much sort of like the person in the back office with the green visor that was just counting stuff. And now it's more of a strategy role. And that is to say, you know, everybody needs uh people to uh be in there and do everything. I mean, that's that's really I mean, finance is like preventative maintenance in in a lot of ways, which is like, you know, you don't wait for your engine to cease before you change your oil, right? You've got to do everything. I mean, it's gotta be you gotta be looking at the financial health of the company, you gotta be doing all these things. The job, I think, has transitioned a little bit as we've gotten a lot better with technology, new ERPs, an easier way to do things, and integrations between this software and this software, where you used to have to do it manually and now it's an automated process. So there's maybe less time spent doing general things. But to go back to your question, I I think that understanding that people may have a different opinion of you or the job than you may have of the job. So qualifying it and clarifying it, sure, and maybe getting some kind of relation and maybe even not an icebreaker, but even the first five minutes of a conversation being more on the personal side or the business side. Hey, tell me about what's going on today. And um, I saw this truck in there, you know, they've been coming in a lot. I mean, just things like that that that helps you relate to people, and then the question will seem less formal, I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

For sure. It's like relatability and likability. Like we've talked about this before um on some other episodes. It's just like if you can have a conversation with somebody and they like you, if you have high likability, I mean, you're likely going to uh go places that you weren't before, right? Yeah. Because it just it opens up all these other avenues of conversation and communication with that person because they enjoy talking to you.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Yeah, and I think that that's where you can get into like if you can be relatable with somebody and you can use analogies and things like that and maybe sort of break the ice that way, I think it makes a lot of sense. I had one guy uh tell me one time, you know, there's so much talk over cash at coloss cash, this, cash that, cash this. It's like we make so much money, you know, why is that such a big deal? And you just have to, I mean, you have to be able to say, and and maybe it's things that you look at and rehearse ahead of time, but I think I remember telling this guy, I'm like, cash is like it's like gas in your car almost. I mean, your car could be running fine, you run out of gas, right? I mean, like it could be performing really well. You you're it's perfect, everything's running good, and then you just run out of gas. Yeah. You have to like pay attention to the gas gauge, which is cash. I mean, it's not not that, I mean, we're fortunate with with colos, I guess, a little bit to not uh be in a position where everyone run out of money. But I've been in companies like that where uh you have a certain amount of cash. Yeah. Right. And there could be times where you have to prioritize one thing over the other, and you have to have a good understanding of what's coming in, what's going out, you know, what do I, what are my absolute uh have to do? Payroll being number one, right? Utilities or certain other things, and and uh you have to understand that that these things are coming up. But from the person's standpoint that I was talking to at that time, they don't quite get that, right? They haven't been on that side, they're not they don't go to school for it. I don't think they understand. They might just say, like, okay, we made X amount of dollars, that's how much cash we have in the bank. But it's it's not exactly that simple. But you can't say that because if you tell somebody, well, it's not really that simple, they're you're sort of almost sure, like you're you won't understand. You wouldn't understand it. But so you have to kind of and I that's why I think using stuff like that kind of endears you to people a little bit more. Cause I'm like, well, yeah, but just because this happens doesn't mean that this is great, right? I mean, I think that's I mean, there's probably some statistic that I'm I don't know, but how many companies that run out of cash and file bankruptcy had a profitable year the year prior to filing bankruptcy. I bet you it would be a big number. You can fact check it and see for the next episode, I suppose. But it's gotta be thanks. It's gotta be that way. It's gotta be the number of companies that file bankruptcy that had a profitable year the year prior. It's gotta be maybe it's even more than 50%.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Sure, yeah. You know, it's um always I try to relate it to that. Like if people ask that same question, it's relating it to a small business or even like your personal bank account.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

You only do so many things before you run out of cash. So you can't overspend necessarily. Right. And when you take it back to business, like you said, there's a lot more moving parts with you can have a profitable year on paper and not collect cash. I mean, I've seen people before that are profitable as far as they know on paper, but they don't do the back ends of the business well, like collecting on their receivables or from customers, right? It's just not what they want to do as a small business. It's not what they gravitate towards. So if you let that sit out for long enough, you're just gonna run out of cash. Like it's only a matter of time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

And I mean, it's even like, you know, CapEx stuff, right? So so you have a certain amount of cash in the bank from profitable years prior, but then you want to buy some new item, you want to buy new construction equipment, you want to buy new plant components or something like that. It's like, okay, you have to have cash to do that. You can't be cash negative and buy, you know, a new asphalt plant or a new paver or a new uh anything, right? I mean, it's it's really a new crushing plan, a new crusher or something like that. Yeah. But how that, how people understand how that goes into the business and what that means to the financials and depreciation and things like that, you have to be able to really run somebody through that if they want to. And some people do and some people don't need it. But you say, like, okay, this is what it looks like. You have this and this and this and this. Here's how that means here's how that looks every day to your business. Here are the items that you can control right here. Here's the items that the sales team can control. Here's the items that purchasing or operations can control on the raw materials or inventory side. These are all the components of that. But then you look at an income earned, then you look at the like statement of cash flows. Who controls you know accounts receivable? Well, sometimes it's the admin team, sometimes it's the sales team, sometimes it's uh your credit and collections team, sometimes it's operations and in extending credit to somebody that probably you know, without guarantees or without joint check agreements or things like that, that maybe you wouldn't do. But I think if you looked at a statement of cash flows, that's a thing that everybody controls some line. Yeah, right. Yeah. So you just have to relate it to what they can control. Trevor Burrus, Jr. And if they don't need to know, don't tell them. That's the other thing, too. I'm not going out to a construction crew and telling them about our eBita or what our cash position is. I mean, they're the ones that impact it uh maybe the most with the profitability, but it's not something to their job today.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

Yeah, so it doesn't it doesn't mean a whole lot.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

Now, if somebody asks me a question, I will tell them. For sure. I I went out to a crew one time and a guy was like, hey, I got a question for you. When you look at data, uh, I feel like he was on, he was a paver operator, and he was like, I feel like all the other guys redline the engine, but I don't, I back off a little. And I think our production to per production per day, tons per day for the crew is the same. Can you am I saving fuel? Is it uh are we getting the same production, but I'm using less fuel? Like, can you go check that? And I was like, yeah, dude, I can for sure go check that. Yeah, and we back out of here in three days to talk about it. But unless I ask a question, I don't I won't go into nice detail.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

Yeah, yeah. That's a good that's a good one. What what uh percentage or amount of like your success and progress and roles in the company would you relate to being a good communicator?

SPEAKER_01 38:17

Um, I mean, personally, a lot of it, I think, for me specifically, because um it's a tough question. I I think a lot of it though, because I think that uh that is what maybe I that's the tool and the toolbox that I try to use the most because maybe I feel like it's one that I'm better at. Um and it's certainly a way that I've conveyed maybe certain things or certain issues or opportunities really well and and and you know, gotten in front of leadership and said, hey, here's some things we need to look at.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

Um you know, I yeah, I mean, I think probably a lot of it, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

And you're just you know, I think part of being a good communicator can be just getting the right information in front of the right people. It doesn't mean that you have to be able to do it all. Yeah, right. But you're a resource to get it to the right spot in in the best person's hands, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Yeah, and I think, I mean, the you know, it's like good employees come with problems, great employees come with solutions, right? So part of the communication, depending on where you are, is if you see, if I see an issue, if I see, you know, if I'm looking at tons per day per crew and you've got one region or one crew that's not real well, it's like let's not just call somebody, and then maybe that's a bad example, but let's just not call somebody and say, hey, we think we've got a problem over here. Take the extra time in your communication, because who wants to be, if you're uh president or VP or somebody, who wants to just get bombarded with problems all day, right? Yeah. It's just okay, okay, and then then that's on them. Of course, they're thinking, like, okay, well, no, let me put that on the list of something I have to fix, right?

SPEAKER_02 40:06

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

If in your communication you've done some discussing and and it's it's you come with a maybe a solution also, hey, I've looked at this. One thing I think we can do is do this. I've talked to so and so, they agree. What do you think? Mm-hmm. That's better than just communicating a problem. So I understand that that's a big that's a big part of it.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

For sure. Um have you have you had any like mentors or gotten advice around communication that's helped you over the years?

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Uh for sure. I mean, I think everybody I've worked with uh as I've come up in the the ranks here has has helped, but in in all in in different ways, right? I mean, there's some people say, hey, you know, when you do this, it's kind of coming off as this, or you know, you need to get out there. It's yeah, there's so many early lessons you learn in your career that that kind of shape the way you are, you know. I mean, and that and that I'd say like as a leader in the company, I think it's my job now to give people advice on certain things and feedback, yeah. Yeah, it may come off as uh, you know, unsolicited or something like that, but but you know, it'd be it's like somebody early or young in their career or in a new role, you say, Hey, that was great. I love the way you did that. You know, next time you should hit this point harder because I thought you did a great job understanding that part of it, and it really kind of it uh um showed how much you care about this, a lot of passion or something. I mean, giving people really sound, solid advice, I think, is almost a duty now, you know. Yeah, I agree. And you do it too. I mean, I see you, you know, when you talk to people, you say, that's really good, that's a great job, and try to do this or this better. Sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

I don't know when that changes, but um maybe maybe you're just maybe some people are doing it naturally through the whole I love like open communication and feedback from all levels, uh from anybody, really. Like even with this podcast since we've been doing it, people reach out and say, Oh, hey, you know, just letting you know we're listening or whatever. And I'm like, that's great. Thank you for listening so much. Cause honestly, I thought maybe five people would or something, right? We're recording right now. But I'm yeah. Oh my god. But I'm like, uh, you know, I'm open to any and all feedback you have, positive, negative, whatever, because I have the mindset that that will make us better. Yeah. We can utilize all of it to lean into something or lean away from something or tweak something to make it better, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

Yeah. I mean, it's it and feedback is like super important for uh to for improving stuff. I always hate though, like when I go on Amazon and look at feedback for something, they'll give like something one star and be like, it was late being delivered. It's like, well, that's not good feedback for you.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

Well, it's giving feedback's also a skill. Like it's it's not easy to do uh well.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

Yep. There was a uh there was something that that we did in the Uni3 program that I did probably four or five years ago at this point where you had a group and throughout the week, you know, you interacted and talked and worked as a team. And at the end of the week, you had to go in a room and they gave you feedback, like constructive criticism. And it was like for and I recorded and I still have it to this day, but it was like 45 minutes getting blasted, you know, when you do this. And I think one of the things that uh that uh one of the great pieces of feedback that uh somebody gave me in there was because I f think that I'm a decent enough speaker that I don't necessarily have a pure speech prepared when I'm gonna go present something. I have bullet points, I like to come at them naturally, it feels more at least from my side, more engaging because I'm yeah, you know, I'm I'm hitting the the bullet points. But there were some somebody who's like, you know, when you do these presentations and you're not you don't you don't seem prepared, it comes off as disingenuous and like you don't really. care about the the topic. You know, maybe you should, even if it's the first two or three lines or first, you know, five minutes, come ultra prepared for those, and then you could transition to kind of speaking off the cuff or whatever you want to do. But at least it's going to tell the audience right off the bat that like, okay, this guy's really prepared for the thing. I always thought that was really great feedback. Yeah. Uh at the time telling the audience. Yeah, at the time hearing that I've come off as that I don't care about what I'm presenting about. That was a hard one to hear because it's like, no dude I was like up all night thinking about this. This is just the way I present. But that wasn't the and there's no ex not to say that was my excuse.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Well it's because it's because uh you're presenting the way you think somebody would want to hear it if they were you. Yeah. And that's the way that you want to hear it. Yeah. And but to other people uh to some people that aren't wired like you or me to a degree well they they better thank God because uh this is a weird brain to be in. But um but they may see it as you being unprepared or you don't care or whatever. So it's kind of a good point to you know if you're taking your style um come out hot prepared so showing that you care and then like give all your context in a in a more informal manner maybe.

SPEAKER_01 45:25

Yeah it I mean it's something that I I actually took that to heart and I I I do that now. I would say if I have to present I try to have it uh pretty well prepared at least the first part of a discussion and then if I go into bullet points I had they're bullet points right so I can say like okay you know this is this and and talk about it from there. But the macro level of the presentation I try to have pretty prepared.

SPEAKER_00 45:49

And that's I mean it's just you know it depends on what you're presenting and what setting you're in. Right. Because for a long time they teach you in college and all this like just work off of bullet points. Don't write a whole paragraph up on a PowerPoint slide right because like we want to be kind of entertained.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

Well and I but but so I mean I don't do death by PowerPoint, but I think that what I will do now is even if I have a bullet point out there and even if it's a first part of it, I will somewhat memorize what I want to say to open it up.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

I'm not saying you do put a paragraph up, but you're it's a more prepared approach of hey I have this and it's it's not like just having bullet points up there like note cards and then going, oh yeah, this is what I was going to talk about. Here we go.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

Right. Yeah it's but in so just I mean some of that feedback that I got to go back to to feedback. That was I thought a really well thought out, interesting way of giving me feedback, which was to say that I think the guy that gave me that feedback really understood what he was saying in that way. And maybe he took something that he thought was frustrating for himself but gave me the feedback in a way that I uh really understood. Yeah. Because I think when you give feedback part of the part of the the thing to try to avoid is you have not to make it emotionless but you know you you're married, I'm married. Sometimes when somebody says that made me feel certain way, you could easily be like, well I I that was my I didn't make want to intend to make you feel that way so don't feel that way. You know it's but if it says if somebody said it was it was disingenuous or something or you know um I don't know if you meant it to be like this, but it it was you when you did this it can come off it came off as this. And so there's no like uh there's no doubting that it happened. There's no like well I'm sorry you felt that way sort of thing. It was like okay, yeah, I mean sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:03

So that was um and that comes from observing people and observing intently and then also being a good communicator on that end to give feedback that's relatable.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

Aaron Ross Powell Yeah but be uh being good at giving feedback is a skill that not everybody has. For sure. You know and so and I'm not no I don't know that I'm great at it, but at least I try to think and try to use those tools and go back and say like okay how do I need to say this that that doesn't come off as uh me trying to make them do something the way that I want to do it or something. I mean, you know how can I how can I change the way I'm I'm voicing this but it's a it's a skill and I'm trying to get better at it every day. For sure yeah I'll give you some feedback. Thanks. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 48:51

Wait until we turn it off okay uh what do you think is the best communication analogy within your uh like within your day-to-day jobs what's the best analogy you've ever made oh I don't know that's a that's an insane question what's it's like that's like what's the what's you gave me you gave me coffee and I just thought about it.

SPEAKER_01 49:16

I know but it's like it's like saying like what's what's your favorite day of your whole life? But okay let's do that. No besides having kids. Uh wedding no yeah well besides that man what's your best day at work ever no I I mean I think that uh you know you when when you communicate especially in our business I mean it's it's a lot of times a translator right when I and when I say like an accountant it's got to be part translator and part mechanic to fix processes and part you know uh detective to understand where certain issues are the translator part of it is it's really a it is really a skill and I think that from the communication I agree from the communication side you know I'm taking directives from my boss distilling those into how I need to communicate that to my staff who needs to then communicate that to manufacturing department who needs to communicate that to people at a plant or something. And it goes through all the iterations that game a telephone, right? But so you've got to kind of hold that process and figure it out along the way but um it's a translation thing. And then in our company in our job sometimes you're translating things you know from a from French or a you know a modified way of saying something and saying okay okay what they're really concerned about is this and how we do this. You know, let's focus on these two pieces of it. Yeah now you have to bring in cultural context too yeah but cultural context is interesting because you know it's we could have that in the U.S. too well yeah different regions exactly well different regions and different uh just the way different people grew up I mean the difference between even somebody at that's working at a plant and somebody that's on a job could be totally different. It's all like and a lot of it is trauma-informed supervision or or psychological safety or any one of those that uh you know I'm I'm sure you'll have or have already talked about but people grow up differently and you have to understand that certain things is one person can be triggering to another person and you have to be careful, right? I mean there's certain things that I would say in passing previously that I won't now just because I don't yeah you don't know what people have experienced in their life and things like that. Right. So it's it's really a it's a you have to always coming through lived experience. Yeah right you have to be very conscious of what you're putting out in the world and what you're saying. Yeah. But back to the best analogy let me rephrase the question.

SPEAKER_00 51:47

Do you uh is there an example of a time that sticks out in your mind when you used communication to like overcome a problem?

SPEAKER_01 51:57

Well I think didn't I say that earlier? What did I say I don't think so no I mean I think when I was uh just talking about uh talking to to somebody and they're in their the cash thing that I was trying to say it's like the gas thing but but I mean we're trying to under trying to tell people that you know being on the finance side sometimes is like preventative maintenance. Right. It's like you wouldn't you wouldn't you know just that's what I'm saying like you wouldn't just run your car without checking your oil and right I mean you have to do that before. It's not wait until your roof leaks to to redo your roof. Of course I do have a current roof leak so that's probably a bad analogy. But you have to understand that it's all preventative maintenance. Right. And so finance is one part strategy because in in a lot of in a lot of ways you see the entire business you see the financial health of the company you see the the strategy side of it you see over or underperforming assets. I mean if you looked at you know all your assets and which ones are doing the best and which ones aren't and let's let's say you had you know four or five asphalt plants, one of them's doing really good and and two of them are doing okay and two of them aren't doing so hot. You have it in your toolbox to probably help diagnose that problem. Right. So you would be the maybe the one person in the company or one group of people in the company be in that department to understand what's the age of the assets, what's the selling price, what's the competition in that area, right? Because you can look at maps and you can look at all the other things prepared. I think a lot of different departments have pieces of that puzzle like you know really executive operations understands the strategy of the business and understands this. But they're probably going to you to get the financials and and understand the, you know, the cash and look at the equipment. The people on the ground when if it's a sales staff, they understand in better than anybody what the competition is and how hard it is to increase price. The people at the plant know they're dealing with old assets and you know we need new stuff and we're doing winter maintenance. But I think the finance is like the one group that sees everything.

SPEAKER_02 54:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:05

So it is a preventative maintenance thing that you need to look at and say like how how can I do this? How can I do this to make this thing run smoothly the whole way through.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

Yeah. Yeah I got a really good example that's pretty recent. So we're going through budget time we've restructured from operating Missouri and Arkansas separately now we're trying a line of business structure and you know everybody you kind of only know what's in front of you, right? So whenever a budget is presented to us together, then Brad and I have the vantage point of saying oh well this asset, we're using two assets for the same thing. Like we're going to be better off if we just utilize one of these assets and move it around right and then run more production or hours or whatever through it.

SPEAKER_02 54:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:57

So it's it's all kind of what you're talking about. You have a different vantage point you get all you get to play with all the pieces sometimes. And sometimes other people other people or um parts of the business are missing a couple. You know maybe they got sucked up in the vacuum plane or that's right.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

Whatever. Well and it's not I mean you don't always have the ability to change things too. Sometimes in in different areas you know finance pointed it out. Different ability to kind of change to to you know execute a strategy. You have to bring everybody along right so let's say you you look at something and and you identify that you've got some misuse of assets or you're going to combine things. To get everybody to be on the same page and understand what you're trying to say, you have to be able to communicate that effectively here's what I'm talking about. Okay. So you look here and you can see this and this and this is what I'm talking about. Sometimes it's just saying here's what we want to do and and and it's easy to understand. But that's where communication comes in because I don't think you know anybody should be really solely dictating any decision without getting everybody else involved. It's just kind of recipe for disaster but there's some things that that you know you can say like I I understand your concern this is the way that we're moving along with it. I'm happy to help you get there with me and I need you along the way but this is kind of the way the what we've decided. But sometimes it's there most of the time anyway I think it's more collaborative. So you got to get people to kind of move with you a little bit and help them understand at each step of the way. So that's why I think communication is important because even if you had you found something that was going to make the company a whole bunch of money because you I don't know there was something you figured out right yeah you can't just go in and do it. You've got to communicate to force other people to help you. Yeah. It's like the biggest thing that I think you could the biggest skill I think you could hone in on. But it's like you know it's the whole lionstone have to roar type thing too, right? It's it's it's you don't have to go out and scream from the rooftop. Sometimes there's subtle ways to do things. If you're coming with the right data from the right side and the in a in a position where um people trust you and and uh uh can believe what you're saying you can get people to move pretty quickly for sure yeah anything else you want to cover on communication uh well I don't think so I mean I think I covered it but uh um okay I mean I yeah I think I'm good.

SPEAKER_00 57:22

As is tradition the previous guest leaves a question for the next guest so the question left for you is in your life and your role how do you define success?

SPEAKER_01 57:37

Uh happiness probably for me I think that uh if like I'm on the surface being successful at work and getting promoted and doing these things but I'm miserable what's the point? Yeah what what's the point? Uh if you know I think if I'm happy then I'm I think I'm successful. I don't know you know I like work I like uh coming to work every day I think it's fun I think it's interesting I meet a lot of cool people sure um talk to a lot of great people I just really surround myself to or I mean the company allows me to surround myself a lot of smart people to work here I mean we've got a lot of awesome people so that's what I'd say I'd say my level of happiness I love that answer engagement yeah I would say I love that answer.

SPEAKER_00 58:25

If y'all enjoyed the episode please rate our show and leave a review on Apple Podcasts Spotify or wherever you listen and check out Delta on all social media platforms at Delta Companies and our website at DeltaC O S looks like deltacos com. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week