Building Your Personal Brand as a Leader: Lessons from Stephan Mills

What does it really take to build a personal brand as a leader and why does it matter more than most people think?

In this episode of On The Surface, Seth Stevens and Brad Collins sit down with Stephan Mills, Director of Finance at Barrett Industries, to break down how your reputation, relationships, and authenticity shape your career over time.

Stephan shares his journey from job cost accountant to executive leadership, and what he learned along the way about adapting to new roles, navigating different team dynamics, and rebuilding your brand from scratch in unfamiliar environments.

They dive into:

• How to establish trust and credibility when no one knows you
• The challenge of rebuilding your reputation in new roles and regions
• Why authenticity is the foundation of strong leadership
• The difference between reputation and personal brand
• How great leaders adjust their approach without losing who they are

Through real stories, including navigating difficult work environments and leading through uncertainty, Stephan explains why your personal brand is not something you create once, but something you continuously refine.

If you are growing into leadership, changing roles, or looking to stand out in your career, this conversation offers practical insight you can apply immediately.

Thanks for listening!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Welcome back to On the Surface. I'm your host, Seth Stevens, and this week I'm joined by a previous guest, Brad Collins, and we're sitting down with Stefan Mills, Director of Finance with Barrett Industries, to discuss his background and building a personal brand. But first, let's talk about feedback. If you haven't already, please go follow, rate, and review our show on whatever listening app you're using, and share it with your friends on social media, tagging Delta Companies or any of us individually. All right, let's get into the conversation. Um, all right. Stefan, thanks for joining, man. Hey, thanks for having me. Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad we could make it happen. Yes, sir. We got Collins, now we got you. Yeah, unfortunately, he's still here. We couldn't get rid of him.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

No, no, no, because I live in this space for the next four days.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

Actually, we invited you back. Thank you. It's a good time. Your episode blew up. Obviously. Yeah, obviously. So, Stefan, what's tell us about your background.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

All right. So, uh, you know, I'll I'll start from the beginning, grew up oldest child in a family of five, uh, including my mother and father. And uh growing up, did a lot of martial arts, uh, played a lot of sports. I loved playing basketball. One of my favorite things uh there. Still a big fan till today. Um as I went through high school, I tried to figure out, you know, what I wanted to do with my career. And I I always loved working with my hands, always loved um math, which was something that, you know, I my dad said, hey, you should really explore that a little bit. And uh I went to school and decided, you know, I want to try accounting. And I said, hey, you know, with accounting, I can do something that allows me to play with other people's money without playing with my own. Um, and went to school, graduated uh from RIT in 2010, and started looking for a job and uh moved back to my hometown, small, small town in upstate New York. And I found this uh construction company, and they were looking for a job cost accountant. I had taken some cost accounting in school. I said, hey, it might be a great fit and uh went and interviewed and ended up with Midland Asphalt, uh, which is one of our coloss companies uh in upstate New York.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Nice. Oh no. Did you overlap with Collins? Man, overlap with this that was my guy. Oh, yeah. Nice, yeah. Not at all, not at all. I was at the same time frame. Uh close enough, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Okay. Well, yeah, it's a year, so you must have started in 10. Yeah, I started in 10, you started in 11. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Yeah. You were there already. I was there. Yeah, you were there for yeah, because you started in maybe late 10 or mid-10.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Uh, I think it was April 21st. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

So you're yeah, you were there full year. Nice. Yeah. You showed me everything I taught me everything I knew.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Yeah. I like it. I remember coming in, you know, with a construction company. It was very interesting because I came in my first day and uh I was wearing, you know, a nice pair of dress pants and a shirt and uh tie when I came in. And I thought, you know, this is what an accountant has to wear uh coming into a job. And I walked in, sat at my desk, and we had a region manager at the time. Um, great guy, loved working with him, but I didn't know him. He came in and uh says, Hey, can I see you in my office for a moment? And I said, Sure. So I get up, nervous as can be, and uh walk over to his office. And he goes, What are you wearing? And I said, uh, I think this is like a Walmart shirt or and he goes, right, right. I thought maybe he wanted the wanted the uh hookup on the brand. Yeah, you know, he said, uh I really don't think you should be wearing that. And I go, well, what's what's wrong with it? And he goes, You work for a construction company, so they don't want to see you in that again. So I go back to my office. I'm trying to figure out you know what he meant by that. Next day I come in, no tie. Uh I unbuttoned the top button on my shirt, came in still in a pair of dress pants, and he called me in again and he said, Hey, didn't we just talk yesterday about that? I said, Yeah, yeah, of course. You know, I took the tie off. He goes, No, no, no. He goes, look at me. And he stands up and he's there in a polo shirt, a pair of blue jeans, and a pair of uh boots. And he goes, You work construction now. I don't care what you learned before. This is what you wear. And at the time I really didn't understand it. But one thing that really resonated with me was the fact that growing up, I loved wearing a pair of Timberland boots.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

And I said, you know what? Day three, I'm throwing on my Timberland boots and I'm coming in. And it's something I've loved about this company ever since.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

I wasn't sure if that was gonna go somewhere else, but I liked it.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Where where did you think it was gonna go?

SPEAKER_02 5:24

I don't know. I don't know. Uh no, that's funny. I was gonna say, I bet you would feel out of place, but you didn't even get the opportunity to feel out of place. He just straight up told you. Straight up told you you shouldn't wear this. But you work at a construction company.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Yeah, but you know, it was something for me that I I really enjoyed because coming in, you know, growing up, I was never one to dress up a lot. You know, I liked being who I was and uh just being authentically me. Sure. And as soon as you said, hey, you can throw on a pair of jeans and a pair of boots and get out in the field, I said, Oh yeah, this is the kind of company that's gonna fit me.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

It's so interesting in this way because I think it's like it's so different which office you work in. Because even at Midland that day, they had a they had like an ops office and Lions and a like a finance office in Tanawanda, and it was two completely different things. Like you just got the good so yeah, you could kind of dress for your wherever you want. I started a year later, and it was like you need long sleeves, you know. It was uh Oh, really? Yeah, it was totally different. But I mean, I think it's it's great, and I think it's you got lucky that you started in that office.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Sure, yeah. I mean, there's like there are regional office cultures and corporate office cultures, I think. Yeah, it's uh it's different. For sure. Just because the like at a regional office typically, you have operations guys walking in and out, they have boots and jeans on, their boots are dirty, your carpet's a disaster or whatever, right? And like the cleaners have a ton of work to do every night. Um but no, yeah. I mean, we I've seen kind of the same thing across the board, right? Yeah. Um, still allowing you the opportunity for certain times to get all fancy. Absolutely. As I I've seen you do it.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

And I've I've I've grown to like it, you know. Okay, definitely one of those things I've grown into a time. I like it. There's nothing better than throwing on a pair of boots and getting out in the field.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Yeah, yeah. It's like playing a character. Sometimes you gotta dress up and it's like you're playing a character, you gotta be professional, step on today.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

So, all right, 2010 Midland job cost accountant, then what? Because you've been here the whole time. Yeah. You've progressed along. So, what's your career arc look like?

SPEAKER_00 7:36

So, started off in job cost in 2010. Uh, worked that for about a year uh before my mentor who hired me um actually took a position uh in another one of our organizations. So I had an opportunity to move up into our liquid terminal and become the liquid terminal accountant. Uh from there, I lasted about a year before um transitioning into the assistant controller role, working with my good friend Mr. Collins there.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

Oh, yeah. At that point, you were regional?

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Yeah. Regional controller. And as soon as you yeah, and then as soon as I came in there, I was like, okay, Stefan's my guy. I like it. He's the best.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Hey, we had a lot of late nights together in Tanawanda.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Yeah, no doubt. But it was one of those things, like, and you know it too. I mean, you can't fix a process on day one without living it for a minute. And we had to do some like, we're there till one in the morning trying to say, like, okay, well, we'll never do this again, but oh yeah, this month we gotta do it. Yeah, for sure. It was brutal at times. It was brutal at times.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

We got through it.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Nice, okay. And then from there, um, you know, about four years working that job, uh, had a couple opportunities to move, and nothing really fit, you know, my my family culture at the time, uh, what I was looking to do. And an opportunity presented itself, um, actually, where I was able to move down to Pennsylvania in a regional controller role. Nice. Um, back in 2017, uh, which was great. Spent five years in Pennsylvania uh before moving back to upstate New York and another regional controller role, uh, then becoming division controller and now director of finance for Barron Industries.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Yeah, nice. So what um, you know, Brad and I talked about this in another, you know, his episode, but what is um what changed along the way in those different types of roles that you enjoyed to make you keep going?

SPEAKER_00 9:33

A lot, a lot. For me, you know, the the challenge of a new role, a new task, I've always enjoyed. Um, you know, I I look at it like a puzzle, and you know, anything that we can solve is good. Um, you know, I I look at it as a math problem too. You know, you're either adding something, subtracting something, and I look at it as what can I add to this uh scenario to bring value?

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Yeah. Well, you know what you you were like a you're a big car guy, right? Sure. And it's like trying to diagnose a problem with the car. I mean, you you as you move to you go down to Pennsylvania and you got it, it's a whole new engine you got to rebuild. I mean, it's like the the the it works backwards things. Not that it was all out of whack, but I mean, you know, you have to figure it out first. So you gotta figure out what to do, you gotta figure out how you can change it. But that's I mean, as like a car guy, and you said you like working with your hands, like that's it. That's the job.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

Yeah, and that's that's exactly it.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

What's your car?

SPEAKER_00 10:27

So, my my favorite car is a 67 Shelby Mustang. Oh that's that's my dream car right there. Nice, Eleanor from Gone in 60 Seconds.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

If Seth told you today, hey man, I really like I got a bunch of money saved up, and I really want to buy a car, like a classic car. What do you think fits him? Like, what do you think his car is?

SPEAKER_00 10:52

This is good. I'm into this. Let's I think a good El Camino would fit.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Oh, really? You'd think see, I would have said streamlined, like a little Porsche 9-11, like classy. Would you have really? No. Oh. No, I like well, I'd not just say you're not classy. Oh because I do think you're classy. I think an El Camino isn't good. Why do you say that? Why do you say that though?

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Well, see.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Tough exterior, soft interior?

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Hey, you bring a lot to the table, you know. You got you got room for growth in the back, you got a nice sleek front. It's everything the stuff's about.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

I don't even know how to take that.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

That's so what about me? You? Yeah, we'd give you a good uh we'd give you a good old Lincoln.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Oh, yeah. An old link. I like that. Old, yeah, like a lead sled, like one of those old like with the giant white walls.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Man, I'd have to brush those things clean all the time. That would be a disaster. But I do like that. I like an old link. Anyway, curious.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

No, that's fuzzy. I like it. For real, I do. The uh you have that built into your goals, your Shelby? Like at some point you will own one.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

I do, I do, but I've got a I've got a project car I need to finish before that.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Oh, okay. What is it?

SPEAKER_00 12:13

That is a 79 uh Firebird. That was my father's uh that he had before he passed. Nice. He started uh started finishing it, and you know, for me it's something I've always wanted.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

It's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

He bought it from my mom um when she was pregnant with me, and they, you know, once she uh when she gave birth, she set it down and they didn't drive the car again. They've had it, uh they left it outside for a couple of years, unfortunately. Uh so floorboards rotted out, but uh he started working on it to get it fixed uh a couple years back, and I'm gonna finish it for him.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

That's awesome. That's awesome. So was um was your dad into cars? Is that how you got into cars?

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Yeah, my dad was into everything. Okay. Uh, you know, he was he was one of those guys that tinkerer, yeah. Tinkerer grew up uh doing whatever he had to do. So he worked construction uh in Florida where where he was born. Um he used to run large loader uh for a construction company. Uh he helped build houses down there. Um when he moved to New York, then he started working at uh mobile chemical, uh uh factory at the time, uh in their plastics division doing that. Um he owned his own driveway ceiling business at one point. He owned his own septic uh tank business at one point. He was just a just a guy who had to get it any way that he could to help us survive. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

Nice, that's awesome. Um all right, so you were you would say that you kept going in those roles, and similar to Brad, you uh use the analogy of a puzzle. Oh, yeah, I like it. Puzzle too. A puzzle. So you're putting puzzles together, you kind of advance. So what we said was you kind of you know, I asked what he thought made him continue going, because you could stay in that job forever, right? So sure. What we said was you know, you finish a hundred-piece puzzle, you go back for another puzzle. Well, now you think that you want like a 250 or something, right? You're not just gonna grab another hundred. Um, so what's been your favorite role so far?

SPEAKER_00 14:19

My favorite role so far. That's that's a great question. Um, you know, there's I I think there's great aspects to every one of the roles. So, you know, I'll start when I was regional controller. Um, one of the things I've always loved is being close to the operations. And when you get a chance to get out there, see what's going on, live and understand it uh with the guys that are using their hands and getting in the dirt and uh doing what they do every day. I think I think there's something special about that, you know, especially in the role of finance for us. Um, and you know, so there's there's that aspect working with the people um hand in hand, solving those everyday problems, uh, you know, is fun. You know, that that's that's part of the puzzle. Yep. Um, but you know, the division controller and now director of finance roles are also great for me. Um, you know, I I think it brings you to a higher level of strategic planning and thinking. And you, you know, you get out of the day-to-day grind and you start to look at, you know, what does this look like five years from now, 10 years from now? How is the landscape going to change and what do we have to do to make it better?

SPEAKER_03 15:26

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 15:27

No, I like that. What do you think drew you to that, you know, outside of just the challenge, what draws you to the like future forecasting and that kind of landscape that you're doing in your world now?

SPEAKER_00 15:42

It's the uncertainty of it. You know, it's it's it's the, you know, uh back to that same analogy. It's the puzzle piece, and you're trying to find out where it fits. So, you know, every bit of information that you're getting, whether it's, hey, you know, a new competitor is in the area, or you see a new name that pops up on a bid, or you know, you start to see groundbreaking somewhere. You get to ask the questions, you know, what's happening, what's going on, what do we have to do? Um, you know, to find that information out and get our foot in the door.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

Yeah, yeah. It can be a little scary. So it's like some curiosity takes you into it. For sure. A little deeper. Um, okay. So earlier you brought up um, you know, branding and feeling like you, like wearing Timberlands made you feel at home, right? Yeah. Like uh you were happy about doing that. So I asked Brad what we should talk about. He said, Oh, Stefan has done this uh building your own brand. He's great at this type of stuff. So um what is it about building your own brand that you think is important and why you advocate for it?

SPEAKER_01 16:50

And to to put, I mean, rebuilding it too, not just building it, but like when you go down a PA, you have to rebuild it. When you come back up to New York, you have to rebuild it, but you maybe don't build it the same way you built it when you went down a PA, you know what I mean? So like exactly it's not like if you worked for somewhere the same time and you had to build the once and everybody knew who you were, so it's it's easy for you. Sure, yeah. So to rebuild it when you go down a PA and then do that the same in New York. Do you take parts of this and add, now I'm in this position, so I need to be more like this? Like talk about building it and then talk about rebuilding it.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Sure, sure. So, you know, I'll start with uh the beginning of my career there at Midland. Uh, you know, coming in, I was a 23-year-old kid, didn't know anything about the construction business at all. Um, and I wanted to soak it all in. Um, you know, I I know on uh Brad's last podcast episode, you know, he talked about my story with our former terminal manager, uh Bill Haynes, and you know, a lot of the uniqueness that Bill brought and perspective for me of hey, you know, maybe maybe your message isn't exactly clear or the way that you think it is.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Yeah, I think I think that's the one where I just he hated emails and wasn't gonna read them. But who knew?

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Yeah, you didn't had to speak the language of the business, which which I learned. And you know, it became something that I I could easily do. Um, you know, I could get out into the field and talk with um, you know, anyone that's on a crew and find out what's going on and find a way to bring what I'm seeing in the numbers out to the field where they can really make some changes. And that became something that, you know, I I really stood by and being able to bridge that gap between the office and field, um, it's something that's become a bit of my brand. So, you know, during my seven years at Midland, it was great because over that time I built a reputation where people just knew that, hey, I can go to Stefan and he's going to have the answer. And if he doesn't have the answer, he's going to find the answer. And I brought, you know, a good levity to the situation. I was always upbeat, like to have fun, and you know, I prided myself in that. Um, to Brad's point, when I moved down to Pennsylvania, it was very interesting. Um, you know, I didn't know much about the role going in. I knew that the controller at the time was being uh let go. So, you know, I was coming into uh a bit of a turbulent situation. Um, and I'd also heard that the region manager himself was a little hard to get along with. Um, so I get in there my first day, and um I get to the office and I've got a senior accountant who's there. And she was um as cold as could be, really. Uh, she didn't want to talk to me at all uh when I got there. And you know, I said hi in the morning, and uh, I I don't even know if I got a high back, which which I thought was interesting. Yeah, and I'm sitting there with the regional manager, and he was great when our CFO was in the room, but I'll never forget uh there used to be a bathroom that separated my office and his, uh, where I was going to. And the CFO comes in and he goes, Hey, can I can I use your bathroom, John? And uh he goes, Yeah, yeah, of course. Go ahead and use it. Uh, he finishes up. We walk uh toward the office, shake everyone's hands, and the CFO goes, Okay, great, you're on your own. Uh good luck. So he he leaves and I go and meet with the regional manager, and he goes, Okay, so let's let's uh set the rules right now. Rule number one, uh, that bathroom is mine. I don't know if you're clean, do not use it. Oh my word. So, you know, I think I think the picture that was painted for me of this regional manager was true. And you know, I I immediately started saying, Okay, well, one, I'm coming in, no one knows me here. Yeah. So, you know, this reputation that I've built for myself at Midland really doesn't matter. It's it's it's totally, you know, out the door. So now I'm building from scratch, but I also know the things that made me successful at Midland um could make me successful here. And when I started to meet with the employees and talk with them about what was going on, I found out one of the biggest things that they didn't have was really a leader. Um, they needed someone that they could trust, that they could rely on, and could show them um just what it meant to move the needle forward. And uh for me, I said, okay, this is this is something I've done before. So, you know what, I'll start establishing my brand in that way uh here. And you know, from that point, I started to build relationships, started to build trust, and uh, you know, became a leader in the organization so that as we shifted and as we uh changed regional managers, it was something where the team still had someone to rely on, uh, which was a different role for me than what I had to take at Midland.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

Yeah, for sure. Do you think I mean it's um a disadvantage because you had already you had a brand at Midland and you came in and it's almost like clean slate. But do you think it's an advantage at the same time that you have a clean slate?

SPEAKER_00 22:11

I do. I do. I I think you know a clean slate allows you to reassess who you are. And that's that's one of the biggest things with you know your personal brand is really understanding who you are on a personal level and a professional level.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

And who you need to be too I mean there's there's a part of that that when you said that group needs a leader that's you've got to ratchet that one up because like that's what they need right then, right? I mean it doesn't have to be your exact who you are, but who they need you to be for them at that point will lead to a more successful team, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Yeah. And it it's it's important to know whether you can take on that role or not. You know there's there's a lot of people who in their careers say, hey, you know what I want to be a leader and when the time comes or they step into that role, they realize that they're not prepared for it or that this isn't something that they really want to do. So you know and as you talk to those people and you start to see you know their their mannerisms change or their attitude it becomes something where they weren't being authentic to themselves. And I think I think that's always key. I've always been authentic to myself and brought who I am to the table.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

When it it's first of all I'll ask you this question did you watch game seven yesterday?

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Oh absolutely okay and did you were you surprised that Cleveland just absolutely destroyed Detroit I was but you know the lights were bright for Cade Cunningham and the team and I that's right. So in in keeping with that theme I mean I know you you've used a LeBron analogy a couple times to talk about a guy there had to rebuild his brand a couple times right in Cleveland the chosen one on the front of the magazine hometown kid absolutely he's got to redo it a couple times right goes down to Miami comes back goes out to LA every time he does it he's got to be somebody different and not maybe somebody different but you know expectations of him in Miami that he wins down there comes back home now he's got to win he's got to I mean he's just got to it's a different thing it's a different kind of when when you look at someone like LeBron uh you know the thing with him when he was in Cleveland he was that hometown kid uh that grew up you know to play in the NBA for his local team and you know that's that's any kid's dream uh that loves basketball and he was adored by the fans and you know he made it to the finals uh a few times but can never really get over the top of that hill and you know when he made that decision I think it was in 20 uh I can't remember 2015 maybe somewhere there uh but when he when he moved to Miami it was funny because he took a different route to do it and uh you know Brad I know you'll remember this and it was it was a big thing on ESPN you know the the decision the decision yeah yeah he he made a whole spectacle never talked to the owner said that he was leaving uh never talked to his teammates he just made this decision and you know he gets to Miami and says hey you know what I'm not gonna win one championship I'm not gonna win two he said I'm gonna win six and you know it be he became like this this villain at the time which which wasn't who he was back in Cleveland um you wonder why so from a branding perspective like why why even say all that I think you know it's it's one of the things with branding where again your brands can change over time so you know he was still very young at the time and he thought for him you know right because he started so young right I mean so he was so when he moved to when he went to uh Miami he was probably mid-20s yeah right geez and you know I know how I was in my mid-20s I wish I knew Seth in his mid-20s I am in my mid-20s he looks like he's in his mid-20s just like an El Camino that's right but the thing the thing with LeBron it was it was funny you know he he tried to buy into this villain persona when when he got to Miami and you know his interviews became real uh angry with the fans and hey I don't care that anyone's burning my jersey in Cleveland you know it is what it is you know I'm I'm I'm down here for a mission I want to win championships and that's what I'm going to do and you know I'll run over anyone who gets in the way yeah and it worked it worked it worked he won and you know when when he went back to Cleveland uh you could really see a great um great example of someone's brand changing and someone realizing who they really were you know throughout his whole villain phase with Miami he was still uh contributing to Cleveland he was still running a bike race uh charity bike race every year still donating to schools but none of that made the headlines it was just you know what he was doing in Miami um but when he went back to Cleveland he uh you know he put it in the newspaper that hey I'm coming home uh he said I want to I want to help win the championship here and he turned around and did that and he went about it in a different manner when he decided to leave and go to my favorite team the Lakers um you know he he made sure he sat down and had conversations with the teammates had conversations with the owner and it it was a totally different spin on it because instead of everyone burning the jerseys and that being the highlight in the newspaper you know they thanked him for his time thanked him for winning the championship and wished him luck in his future so crazy the difference between you know he leaves and people are burning the jersey he comes back and people are kind of like oh my god if he's gonna help us win a championship okay maybe we can and we can forgive this guy and then when he leaves again they're like we get it you know we you know we know you have to do it yeah but but I mean you have to rebuild I mean you know to Stefan's point and into just to to your career mirroring that you couple different changes I mean you move the exact same amount of times really it's you've got to redo it all over again.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Yeah and and it's it's kind of uh you know when you left we didn't burn your polo shirt or anything I never did find that vest in I don't know yeah that's right well that's okay but but I think um you know it's a really unique thing I wonder if you know you wonder if he had like brand specialists that he worked with he must have I'm sure don't you think like he must have had some like his publicist or something was like okay the decision not great so when you go back you're not going to announce it on the SPN although he did it was like a sports illustrated like thing when he's got his folding his hands and says like he's you know returning home or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

But let me tell you a great another example of someone who doesn't have a great publicist uh or brand manager to help him out and that's uh John Morant keeping with the NBA theme. Oh right I know God bless he might have a great publicist he just might not listen to the publicist but uh you know he's he's another story of someone who was a phenomena all the talent growing up um you know first player to average 20 and 10 uh in college you know through Murray State he became the 2020 rookie of the year in the NBA and you know they were looking at him as being the next star uh following LeBron and unfortunately for him you know he he he wanted it he wanted that to be his his legacy um but he let you know his who he really was kind of shine through uh which wasn't who the public really saw so he wasn't oh yeah wasn't being authentic to himself and that that created a bit of an identity crisis for him.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

Yeah I mean if you're like a brand manager for somebody like that which is a position that exists by the way you have to be part psychologist too and I mean it's kind of like you have to understand what they're going through what they came up from and that's kind of the that's you know uh part of the being a good manager of people and being a good understanding that hey yeah you know you give a kid that that uh is all these accolades he's rookie of the year he's still young he's got all this money like you may have to manage people more than they think they need to be managed and it's like you just have to understand what people are going through in their mind every day. You got to be a psychologist kind of to kind of figure that out it's like an it's almost like in in a different way like in in our business like if you're an estimator you got to be part of psychologist you have to understand what competitors might be thinking what they're what they might want to bid on a job why they might want to do it what their tendencies are it's kind of I mean it's just it's con it's a complicated thing. I I don't what's his status now John Moran?

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Uh well we know we'll see if he gets traded in this offseason um it hasn't been great and he's he hasn't risen back to that same yeah he has amazing this year he's good yeah yeah he's good a couple injuries yeah we'll we'll see if he ever makes yeah I didn't know what his latest was either yeah how what what was how did he play a lot this year or no he was yeah okay no and you know that's that's that's the thing you know when you look at it you look at someone's brand and reputation like people know the name but when when you sit here in the NBA seasons you know just going through the playoffs right now and you have to ask yourself this person that was the former face of the league or potentially you know where what did he do this year? Where is he at now? I mean it it says a lot.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

Yeah yeah no joke no joke on transitioning back from roles how did you handle going back to New York then because that was you didn't go back to Midland. No no so I I went to our New York Central uh region that was located in Syracuse New York okay so did people know you there did you carry a brand with you or did you was it another clean slate?

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Uh it was a it was a mixed bag to be honest. You know there were there were a few people that worked there that I had worked with in the past. Okay. Uh the region manager at the time I had um worked with at Midland for quite a few years before I left uh so he was new coming into the role as well so there was some familiarity there um so I already knew I had his trust and knew what I could bring to the table and knew what he was bringing to the table so it made that transition a little easier uh for the team itself you know it was it was starting over a bit but coming in with a reputation from some other projects that I'd been on and well working with people over the years. So uh a bit of a mixed back.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

You know that could be tough because I'm sure when you go to New York Central Joe is singing your praises the team we got Stefan coming in you guys are going to love he's gonna be great. You have expectations coming into this team like let's see how great he is you know let's uh you say this guy's great let's put him to the test yeah but it's expectations are different right you go down a PA they don't know you at all so expectations are maybe a mixed bag of maybe they're like okay he's gonna be better than the old person or they don't know what you get people coming in like okay well you know he's the guy right that I've heard all about forever and I've known him adjacently through emails and things like that. So expectation pulls a lot into that that's tough though.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

I'd much rather go into the PA situation than the uh coming back as some with some high expectations.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

I guess but don't you think don't you think that it helps you a little bit it it gives you a step ahead if everybody knows you've got the manager support.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Yes but it's I I think there's some pressure that comes along with it at the same time right yeah you you do have these uh you know these standards that you're trying to live up to and it's it's a reputation and you know but when when I talk about personal branding uh reputation's a big part of it you know and the reputation is what other people think about you it's it's their perception of you um so you know coming in if people think you know if they've been told hey you know what this this person's gonna change a lot and they're going to do a lot well you know what you've done in the past might not uh necessarily be what you're going to bring to that situation of sure something that you have to assess at the time and you know what worked then might not work now.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

Well we may be blowing up what the expectations were actually like but if you think all right if you go back to LeBron after that whole after that whole um thing with the decision right all how fancy it is how big of a deal it is like when he goes to Miami it's like well you have to win a championship otherwise you're useless. Exactly right yeah but like you set this all up like you have to you have to come through and I mean and I'm not saying and maybe that's probably not how it was like some of that I mean you know I'm I was coming back replacing a controller who was well known and been in the in the business for 40 years.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

Okay. I mean that's that's that's a tough act to follow there. You know those are big shoes to fill and you know for people that had been accustomed to the way that they were doing things and who their manager was and understanding that it's there's it's different for some okay how's it changed to division controller? So and then I mean and then director of finance it's kind of you're kind of playing in the same field though in those two positions yeah no yeah yeah a little bit you know and I think you know in those in those positions it's uh it's different because you're you're talking a different caliber of um thinking that that should that you're working through you know it's the the strategic thinking part the relationships that you're building um you know a lot of times when you're at a region you're focused on the employees that are there the crews you know your team that's around you uh your managers and that nature and maybe you get a little bit outside of your realm into the market and seeing more um you know in the division controller role I'm meeting people that you know are running uh construction businesses from around the state or around the country and getting into these uh meetings with uh high powered individuals and it's uh your reputation doesn't hold weight at that point because again you're you're starting from scratch and now it's a different playing field because these people don't know anything at all about you and what are you bringing to the table they're trying to assess. Well it could be tell me tell me if this is accurate or not but it could be um two different takes one take on the external um relationships is like a blank slate but internally you're still the same person but now you're a different role so like how do you show up for in a different way in that role is that fair I think it's fair but again you know I I think for me it's all about being who I am you know I'm I'm I'm one of those people where you know what you see is what you're gonna get okay and you know I I don't don't like to pull punches you know I'm I'm if if I have an opinion I'm going to let you know my opinion and you know that's something that that holds true uh for me and everything that I do so you know I I bring it to the position in in that way um yeah you might add a couple different things to it um but at the same same time it's just you um yeah you know an analogy that an old coworker of ours used was um uh Mr. Potato Head or Mrs. Potato Head you know when you when you use this um and I I'll never forget it and I laughed so much when she uh when she said this but she said you know your personal brand is like a Mr. Potato Head. So you know you've got a blank slate that's there and within the back of Mr. Potato Head you've got different sets of eyes and ears and nose you know a mustache that you can throw on and you know within you as well you have all of these different things that you have you know you have your values you have uh what makes you you you you have the things that you like to do you have uh who you are at your core and you can put all those things on and there might be different times where you have to bring them out and use them but they're all there for you as a tool. What you can't do however is you know you can't pull apart your sister's Barbie doll and stick one of the legs onto Mr. Potato Head. It just doesn't work that way. And it's the same for you know your brand you can't you can't pull things out of you that aren't there. You know I've got a great example with uh Brad here we were we were presenting at a college a couple years ago and uh him and our former CFO uh Hunter Creech were um those guys are great public speakers I mean it's it's just comes naturally to them. So we get out to OSU we get out to OSU to do this presentation and um I'm there and you know I'm thinking about okay I should be prepping for this you know that's what I do that's when I feel my best is when I prep for it and knowing Brad can come in and he'll just rip for an hour no problem.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

That's right dog no way that definitely didn't happen on a podcast I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

All right keep going I get I get to the presentation and you know we're sitting there trying to figure out who's gonna do what and they go well you can open it so I go okay I'll I'll I'll figure it out I've got this you know if they can do it it's gotta be easy I can pull that out of my out of my back and I'll never forget I stood there in in that lecture hall and I opened up talking about uh the production of liquid asphalt. Oh boy and I went down the rabbit hole of all the things that you can pull out of a barrel of oil before you get to the liquid you know the bitumen at the bottom yeah uh and I happened to throw out there that you could extract natural gas from a barrel of oil.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

Which you know you could extract natural gas from an oil deposit. Yeah the barrel outside of some maybe some bubbles and at that point uh beyond Brad and Hunter laughing hysterically at me oh yeah but we were fast and loose there we were just laughing to just keep it keep it light.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

Yeah it was it was one of the things that I you know one of one of the times I realized hey that's not me you know I'm I'm best when I prepare a little bit for things and you know over time it's you know there's different tools that you can hone and that you know if you if you practice more you can get there. But you know everyone's going to fall back to what's comfortable for them.

SPEAKER_02 40:42

Yeah I agree. I mean I think it's um we haven't covered the topic too in depth yet but like understanding how people operate and what their natural state of being is is super important, especially as a manager leader. So you know how you know if you if that's you and you need to prepare a bit for a speech well a good way to lead you is to prep you and give you ample time to prepare. Whereas Brad if you're not that way then you may he may operate better if I just hold on to that information until 15 minutes before he needs to go. Right?

SPEAKER_01 41:22

Yeah it's just kind of like handling those differently depending on your natural state or or whatever right so well I guess if you become inauthentic it's an easy recipe for disaster because you're gonna have to follow that not to say follow that lie but it's gonna be one of these situations where you've got one thing that this is what you're good at this is how you prepare if you try to do something different it's gonna you're gonna be exposed. I mean that's yeah that's what it is. I mean I think it's it's really really tough. I mean a zebra can't change his stripes all but so much right at some point you need to be who you are and I mean that's that's where I think you go back to just the the general branding of of it all and who you are if you're not I mean you're super funny kind respectful understanding person I mean if you try to come in and be a some kind of hard ass I mean you know it's gonna be really challenging to uh to to keep that going because at some point you're gonna be like you know I'm sorry I don't I don't mean to be overbearing I'm just trying to get this done or this done or this done.

SPEAKER_00 42:23

I mean it's just it's so difficult to play outside of the lines of with which your personal brand has drawn you kind of into yeah I mean it it can be mentally draining and you know yeah you know the the line fake it till you make it you know I I think there's something to be said for it but there's also something where you know you fake it till you make it or you can't fake it any longer and you have to get back to being you.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

Yeah true it is super draining to like to end up living a lie is basically what you're doing right you're not being your your natural self or your natural state of being so I think you were kind of pulling that out Brad but you know in you talking about going back to New York Stefan through all of that I think your answer and recommendation is be yourself in all of these situations. You could tweak like when you went to Pennsylvania you could maybe tweak your approach a bit on how you could best serve that um that group of people on that blank slate but you're still going to do it by being who you are it's just maybe individually handling relationships in whatever way they need at the time.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

Yeah right yeah I mean you know at the end of the day you know your your personal brand comes down to three things really you know it's it's how you look so you know when when you start off uh if I came in my first day at at the office I thought you know how I looked was what a professional needed to look like um and to me that's that's what I felt like I needed to do uh that's what I felt um you know was really Expected of me at the time. When you get into a situation like you're you're you're going into a board meeting or you know you're you're going in for a budget presentation, if you come in uh in shorts and a tank top, you know, I think someone's going to say something about you. It's it's that first impression that people get. Um that says a lot and that that helps build your reputation and your brand. Um so you know, how you look uh is one part of it. How you speak, you know, whether it's uh written communication or uh verbal communication means a lot too. Uh if you're using a lot of uh curse words uh as you as you speak, uh, you know, it's it says a lot about your personality and who you might be on the uh terrible on the inside. I agree. Terrible, I feel targeted.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

You're doing good, buddy.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

Thank you. But you know, it's one of those things where uh you'll see people who use a lot of uh big words.

SPEAKER_03 45:01

Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

And there are people who you go, okay, I I know that you learned that word, but do you really know what it means? I mean, you might question it a little bit, and you know, there's there's a time and a place for it, and how you speak um becomes a big part of that. Um, so how you speak, how you look, and then how you act, and those behaviors that you have. So back to the situation in Pennsylvania, you know, me coming in having to be a calming force um was it was a big part of it. You know, there was there was a point in time where that region manager came into a staff meeting that he was already showing up late for. Um so we got in there, and it's it's maybe my third week with the team, so I'm still learning people, and we're about five minutes past the start of the meeting time. So I gathered the group and said, okay, you know, we we don't need him here to have this meeting. You know, it's a staff meeting, let's go ahead and start it. So we start this meeting, and you know, he comes in uh about 15 minutes late. And we were just sitting around this big table, and one of our project managers is sitting there in a seat where the region manager himself usually like to pick out and sit. Um, you know, no harm, no foul. There's nothing, nothing wrong with that. But the regional manager comes in and he sits at the far end of the table, and um we continue our conversation that we're having. We stopped and I asked him, you know, what would you uh would you like to go back and you know uh start start the meeting over? Would you like to talk? And he says, Well, no, why don't you have him run uh the meeting since he wanted to sit in my chair? And then he gets up, pushes his chair in, stomps out of the room, and you know, everyone there starts to get upset, and you know, they're they're they're really mad. Uh, and rightfully so, you know. I I was I was upset too for them, you know, just for the way that he was acting. But you know, for me, I knew that I needed to bring a nice calm approach to the situation and you know get everyone back on the right track, um, you know, disarm the situation and make sure that we got back focused where we needed to. And I was able to bring that to the table for everyone.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

Yeah, no, that's awesome. Dude, you just you did a fantastic job just summarizing all that up into your three points.

unknown 47:17

Gosh.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

Yeah, I mean, and and you know, nobody does a better job than uh than Stefan does. I think everybody in the company knows that that's he's the guy. I mean, you're very professional, but but I think, you know, one thing is like when you want to be direct, you can be very direct. And I think it's all tools in the toolbox. Like how what tools you can have in your toolbox, right? Yeah, because part of it is just that. Part of it is like you need to understand when you need to be a certain way, you can be a certain way. It might not be your tendency, and you might be always down-to-earth and a nice guy, and really want to relate with people. But at the end of the day, when something needs to get done, somebody needs to know it needs to get done, right? That's the kind of thing, and and you need to understand that you may have to deliver that message in a different way, and you may follow it up with listen, I know that we're all under time constraints, and this is something that's going on. I need you to get that done by the end of the day, and I really don't have time to listen to anything outside of that. And if you need help, I'm I'm here for you. But right, uh it's all tools in a toolbox. Right. You might have the ones that you are more likely to use most often. If you see uh if all the if the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail kind of situation, right? Where the thing that you use the most is intimidation and being really direct with people, then you're gonna do that in every situation, and even some that don't call for it at all, right? But yeah, you have to have a diverse set of skills. And Stefan does an awesome job at that. Appreciate that. That's great.

SPEAKER_02 48:45

All right, so as is tradition, the last guest leaves a question for the next guest. All right. So the question left for you. Question left for you who is the best manager you've ever worked for and why? Ooh, that's uh you don't have to use names. Or you can if you want.

SPEAKER_00 49:06

You know, that's a that's a great question. And you know, I I know that the last guest is probably hoping that I say their name.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

No, he wasn't. No, he wasn't. Unless you want to.

SPEAKER_00 49:19

But uh the the best manager I ever had, um, it was this guy by the name of Bill Bennett.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

Okay. Oh, love Bill Bennett.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

What it's not that Bill Bennett, believe it or not. What? So come on. So this was uh this was when I was in college. Okay, and I was doing an internship in the uh Latin American division of Xerox. And um, I was in the accounting department. How about that? What? Yeah, you ever had that on the presentation caught me really off guard with that?

SPEAKER_02 49:50

All right, well, that's what I think Latin American division of Xerox.

SPEAKER_00 49:54

Yeah, yeah, in Rochester, New York, or Webster, to be to be.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

All right. Well, I just wanted to repeat it for people. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 50:01

But it was uh it was great because I was coming in as an intern and um not knowing what to expect from you know the team or anything. And this guy sits me down and you know, he goes, Hey, uh, you know, I'm gonna have you work on these AP vouchers and just matching stuff up. And, you know, he goes, uh, here's the program. Um, I think you'll be able to figure it out. You know, let me know if you have any questions. And they they were going through a tough time uh because they were in the middle of downsizing. Okay. So uh there was a lot of tension around the office. He was still holding an internship and you know, brought me in. And you know, I'm hearing the conversations that are going on around me, and you know, all the employees that are worried. And you know, I I see Bill as he's going around and he's meeting with each of these employees, um, and it was set up as cubicles, and you know, you could you could still hear what was going on, but he had a very personal approach with every person, and every person handled things differently. There were some people that were very upset and that were crying um, you know, as they're talking about it, and he approached it from you know a very um empathetic standpoint with them. There were people who were angry, and he was able to um, you know, sympathize with them on the same point, but bring them back down to earth that hey, you know, you're this isn't the end for you. There's there's more uh to this, you're you're you know, we're gonna figure this out, and I'll be the person to help you out. And for me coming in, uh sitting there, you know, to see him going through all of that, maintaining his composure, and then still helping me um, you know, as an intern, it meant a lot. And um, you know, as as I'm going through all the different things that he's given me, and you know, he's challenging me more every day because he sees, hey, you're you're capable of doing this. Oh yeah, you can have more, you can I can add more onto your plate. You know, he starts giving me problems of stuff that he couldn't figure out. And it gave me an opportunity to quickly grow through this internship. And at the end, you know, he wrote um, our our school required a letter from our intern uh manager back to uh back to the school, just basically saying, Hey, how did they do? And um, you know, he he gave me this glowing review, and he told me at the time, he goes, you know, you you'll make a great forensic accountant if you ever want to do that. But the biggest thing that you bring to the table is your personality and who you are. And he said, Don't ever lose that. And that's something that I've carried with me, you know, throughout, and I think it's it's done me well so far.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

And I'd be so fired up if I was Bill Bennett right now. What a great answer, dude. Holy cow. Stefan's got me all revved up right now. I'm looking to give that advice to somebody. I'm gonna write it down.

SPEAKER_02 52:40

Yeah, for sure. That's great, dude. Yeah, thanks for sharing. Of course. Good job. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02 52:51

If you all enjoyed the episode, please rate our show and leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, and check out Delta on all social media platforms at Delta Companies, and our website at DeltaCOS. Looks like Delta Lucas.com. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week.