Why Your Team Isn’t Speaking Up (And How Great Leaders Fix It): Cheryl Suszczynski

Why do some teams speak up, share ideas, and collaborate, while others stay quiet?

In this episode of On The Surface, Seth Stevens and Brad Collins sit down with Cheryl Suszczynski, Learning and Development Manager at Barrett Industries, to break down what separates average teams from high-performing ones.

Cheryl shares her journey into HR and leadership development, then dives into the real drivers of effective leadership, including self-awareness, emotional intelligence, and creating a workplace where people feel safe to contribute.

They explore:

• Why psychological safety is critical for strong teams
• How leaders can create an environment where every voice is heard
• The role of emotional intelligence in managing people effectively
• Why focusing on strengths leads to better performance than fixing weaknesses
• Practical ways to improve communication, listening, and trust

From real workplace examples to actionable leadership strategies, this conversation highlights a simple truth: great teams start with leaders who understand themselves and the people around them.

If you’re leading a team, growing into leadership, or just want to improve how you work with others, this episode offers insights you can apply right away.

Thanks for listening!

Check us out:

deltacos.com

Instragram

LinkedIn

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Welcome back to On the Surface. I'm your host, Seth Stevens, and this week I'm joined once again by previous guest Brad Collins, and we're sitting down with Cheryl Szensky, learning and development manager with Barrett Industries to discuss her background personal assessment tools and how to effectively lead a team of people. But first, let's talk about feedback. If you haven't already, please go follow, rate, and review our show on whatever listening app you're using and share it with your friends on social media, tagging Delta Companies or any of us individually. All right, let's get into the conversation. Thanks for joining, Cheryl.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

So we have started by getting into people's backgrounds. So tell us about your background.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

So I've been in um HR for about 20 years. I started when I worked for Hyatt Hotels. Okay. And I've been with the Colas group for nine years. Brad uh hired me.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Nine years in two weeks will be my anniversary. Yep. Started at Midland Asphalt as the HR manager.

SPEAKER_04 1:20

Picking it up.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Midland's taking over the world. Yes. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

And then that progressed, I don't remember the years, but that progressed into being um an HR manager over Midland and Strasser construction in Ohio.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

And then that evolved into because it's they're both pavement preservation. Yes. Right. Yes. Thank you. Yes. Just context.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Go ahead. Yes, because they're both pavement preservation, uh, which is a division at Barrett. And then that morphed into a learning and development role for for the pavement preservation division. Did that for maybe a year um ish. And then um a year ago, um, became learning and development manager for all of Barrett.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Nice. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. What did you so you started with Haya?

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

What was your degree? Or what was your background before that?

SPEAKER_00 2:18

I have a bachelor's in hospitality management.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

And then I went back and got my MBA with a HR concentration.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Gotcha. Nice. What made you go into hospitality management initially?

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Um, my dad suggested it to me because I love to travel and I loved hotels. So he he suggested it, but it's a very difficult industry.

SPEAKER_03 2:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

24-7, 365.

SPEAKER_04 2:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Um, and I got burned out from it.

SPEAKER_04 2:44

I could totally see that. What's your favorite hotel you've ever stayed at?

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Oh, that I've ever stayed at?

SPEAKER_04 2:49

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Uh I don't know. Great answer. I love it. I see it so many. I don't really know the bad ones.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

What um do you like all hotels for the vibes that they go for? Do you are you drawn to a uh common theme or vibe?

SPEAKER_00 3:12

I'm all about location.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Um typically where I can walk or what's close to the office. I don't have a long commute in the morning if I'm traveling for work. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:21

What's your favorite? Okay, I'm gonna ask another question because I thought I was gonna get a pop out of the last one, but I got um what's your favorite city to stay in the hotel, and why is it Toronto? I figured I'd give you a sub.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Uh, because the views are absolutely amazing. I lived in Toronto for two years. Um and I um so when you move, when you look when you work for Hyatt, you move every um year to two years. So so our our our the COAS pushing it um mobility is interesting to me because I think it's it's more organic. Um Hyatt had it organically, and I don't and I don't know how you create a culture of mobility that that the COAS group is trying to have because it was just instilled in us, like that's just what you did.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

That's like your industry. That's kind of yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Yeah. If you wanted the promotion, if you wanted more pay, you moved every year to two years. Um, so I moved all over the place, and um, Toronto was one of the places that I lived. Okay. Um, and then when you move, you get to live in the hotel until you find an apartment. Oh. So I got to live in the hotel for two months in a in a suite overlooking the CN Tower. Yeah. Sweet. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

It doesn't sound good or that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh okay, yeah. No, that's interesting. My wife, her degree is in hospitality management. Yeah, but she never actually went and practiced it. Like, uh, because she knew going in is super demanding and like you usually got to start in like a call center or or something, front desk, whatever. And it's yeah, it's tough.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

And there's, you know, they don't make a lot of money.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

They don't have a lot of money.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

Yeah, yeah. So how did you land on HR and the MBA stuff out coming out of that? You knew you wanted to get out of hospitality management.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Well, so I was I would did front desk, like you just said. Okay. And then I transferred to housekeeping and I was a housekeeping manager for for years. And then one of the hotels that I was working at, the uh recruiting uh person, she went on like a month-long vacation. And so I had to fill in. If I wanted housekeepers, I had to hire them. I had to interview them. And I realized that I really enjoyed that.

SPEAKER_06 5:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

I enjoyed working with the employees more than the guests because the guests can be really rude. Sure. Um, and so that's when I decided to go back to you. A rude guest. I was kidding. You were nodding your head.

SPEAKER_04 5:59

I was saying that I'm maybe guessing be rude.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Sorry, we interrupted.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Um, so I that's when I decided to go back to school and get my MBA and switch gears to HR. And then when I graduated, I actually moved not too far from here, uh, Lexington, Kentucky. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

Uh, did you like Lexington?

SPEAKER_00 6:19

Loved it.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Yeah, yeah. It's super pretty.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

It's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

But that hotel was sold and became a franchise. Um, so I was only there for four months, and then I moved to Wichita, Kansas.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

And then Columbus, Ohio, Toronto, and Cincinnati.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Um, and then when I was in Cincinnati, the hotel sold again, just like in Lexington, became a franchise hotel. So what that means is I was, if you stay, you're no longer a high employee, you're an employee of the franchise company.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

And so I could either interview for my job or with the franchise company or take a severance package and I took the severance package because I was not tied to Cincinnati. Okay. And I was not interviewing for my job. Yeah. After having been with the company for 12 years at that point.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

And so then I moved back home. Uh, I worked in a call center for a year, which uh is very difficult. Yeah. Uh do not recommend. And got this job um a year after I moved back home.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

So home is Buffalo. Did we cover that? No, we didn't, sorry. Yeah. Uh and then the favorite other place you've lived was Toronto.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Oh, yeah. What's the favorite? What's your favorite best?

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Toronto is the best. By the way. I'll take your word for it. Yeah. No kidding. I would love to go. Yeah. You're not invited after that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

What'd you say? Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

I think he's not invited after that. He kind of tossed. Um, is that your favorite place that you've traveled to as well? Or would that be a different answer?

SPEAKER_00 7:46

That's a that's no. Canada is just separate.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

I I'm obsessed with Canada. Okay. So that's separate. My favorite place um is probably Iceland. Um uh followed closely by Amsterdam and Portugal.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Okay. Yeah. Why? What are you drawn to?

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Uh each for a different reason. Um, Amsterdam's beautiful with the canals and the tulips. Uh Iceland was just so so different. So different. And then uh Portugal, the wine is so cheap. Okay. I like that. Every meal you get covert.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

And uh it's bread and cheese and some kind of dips. So every meal, every restaurant has it. So yeah, we we loved it. Okay. It's very, it's very economical to travel there.

SPEAKER_02 8:37

Yeah, my uh my brother went not that long ago, had very pretty pictures. It's gorgeous. Uh yeah, they said the food was good. Yep. I like exploring all the cultural stuff, so yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

Yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_04 8:49

And you know, just like every country's got a different culture, every company has a different culture. Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Nice segue.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

You really shoehorn that in there. I appreciate that. That's true. So how does, you know, on that note, how does um our coloss culture compare to what you came from?

SPEAKER_00 9:13

So Hyatt was an amazing culture. I I'm still friends with all the people that I worked with, my best friends I worked with at Hyatt. And so when I left and went to the call center, it did not have that culture. It was awful. I hate it, it was the worst job I've ever had. Um, so I was looking for a Hyatt culture when I was looking for a job, and I found it at Midland. And now, now co-ops, but it started at Midland, very, very close knit.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Um very, you know, friends at work.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

I don't know if I want to get into Clifton Strengths here, but Clifton Strengths, I'm a relator, number one, and that is having close friends and close relationships at work.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

And getting great satisfaction out of that. And so that's really important to me. And that's what I have here at Colosse.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

That's awesome. Yeah. I would love to get into Clifton Strengths. That's not what we're gonna do on this one. But we'll did you do your Clifton Strengths? Yeah. If we could pair up like you and uh Nick, Lura to do it, because that's Nick's wants that topic so bad.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I won't steal from him. Did he Taylor do it?

SPEAKER_02 10:24

She hasn't done the topic. Oh, she hasn't played. She is a trainer. Yeah, she's certified. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:31

I got woo. Your woo? Yeah, which is not to be confused with the pop smoke song woo, but uh or the woo girls woo. Ric Flair Woo? Yeah, that's basically I got Ric Flair Woo.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Yeah, okay. Winning others over.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

That's right. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Yeah. Just to be clear. That's right. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Um communication.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

I did I get communication?

SPEAKER_04 10:55

I forgot my already.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Yeah. Oh, communication. Woo and communication are your top two? Yeah, they're in sets, they're in the top five.

SPEAKER_04 11:04

Okay, yeah, they're in the top five. Nice.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

Yeah, that's legit. What are yours? Would you say? I didn't say. Yeah, well, what did you say? Uh restorative is number one. Uh strategic is two. Uh I think a ranger, individualistic, and com competition.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Huh.

SPEAKER_04 11:24

Knows all five. Oh, yeah. Just like we thought he would.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

I can see a ranger just but from doing this podcast.

SPEAKER_04 11:31

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Because the rangers are maestros.

SPEAKER_03 11:34

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

So organizing the podcast and all the moving pieces.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Yep. Boy. And so communication. Yeah. And so communication, it doesn't for Gallup, it's verbal communication. It's people who like to tell stories and present, which is why I wasn't surprised that you were in your top five.

SPEAKER_04 11:53

I have to say that whenever you would probably do Clifton Shrinks, every time you would get somebody's score, you'd be like, hmm, not surprised. Like it would have to be every time. Like in there's nobody that that who for Cheryl? Cheryl would do that? No, no, no, not specifically. But I think if you would get somebody's like when you got yours back, you're like, yep, that's it. That's what it is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

That's why I like it so much, though, is because it it resonates with every leader that I've ever done it with. No one has ever said, no, this isn't me.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

Let me ask you a crazy question. Do you think that it's accurate, or do you think that there's this thing where people uh like just believe what they start reading it and they like convince themselves that they believe it?

SPEAKER_00 12:38

I mean, uh I'm a huge fan of Clifton Strengths. I use it a lot, so I'm gonna go with the the first.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

I agree with you. But you know that's a curious question. Um I'm curious because that's like a psychology thing, right?

SPEAKER_04 12:51

It could be, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

But the idea that answering the question is the person you want to be instead of the person that you actually are, like when you're answering, but it picks up on so some people have gotten a neutral response and it says at the very first page before they even see the results, that they might have answered in a neutral way, and so that the answers may not resonate with them.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

So it does pick up on that.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

Yeah, yeah. It's a pretty in-depth questionnaire.

SPEAKER_04 13:18

Yeah. But I answered neutral for a couple of them because like the the two different sides of it were like both things that I thought were they weren't opposed, like you maybe would think. But so they were like the same, and I was like, I'd pick right in the middle.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Yeah, I think I mean you can, but I I think people who do just down the row, neutral, I think it picks up on that.

SPEAKER_04 13:38

But if it's like on one side all the way, it's like I like making new friends, and the other side is like I like new experiences, you're like, well, I like both those things. So maybe I'll be in the middle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

Like cool stuff. That's a good point. Um well, playing off of that, off of Clifton's strengths, and talking about like how can somebody use that to be an effective leader? I know we didn't go in depth on Clifton's strengths, but it's kind of like a self-assessment and self-awareness and that kind of stuff. I know you're passionate about um leading teams and being a good managers and that kind of stuff. So what's your overall take?

SPEAKER_00 14:15

So so Gallup believes that you should strengthen your strengths. So take what you're already good at and leverage that to be the best person that you can be at work, at home, and you're in your community. We tend to focus on our weaknesses and our opportunities. So, like, you know, when you take it, it gives you the your ranking and everyone always gravitates towards the bottom five. Yep. And most leaders do not have empathy in their in their top five, top ten. So they're always like, oh ha ha ha, you know, I've got empathy at 30. Um and out of 34.

SPEAKER_04 14:49

Out of 34.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 14:50

Yeah. Um he's a numbers guy. So it's good for context.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

It's good for context. Oh, that's true. But um, so I lost my train of thought.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

Uh you were saying empathy uh being at the a lot of leaders don't have empathy in the top.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Yeah, so uh so people tend to focus on that and focus on what they don't have. But Gallup says, no, you're already good at this. So you said that you had restorative. So restorative is adept at solving problems, but not just that, but spotting problems before other people can spot them. And so using that to your advantage and being, like I said, being the best person that you can be at work at home and in your community. Um, and so the Gallup reports actually, there is a leader's report and it gives you ideas step by step on how you can do that.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

And how you can leverage. So what I do is I coach leaders one-on-one individually on their top five and how they can do that. And it's great because it's individualized. You know, it's not, I mean, yes, tomorrow I'm gonna be doing a training that is for 30 people and it's generalized, but the value really to me is that one-on-one time that I spend with leaders going over it for themselves.

SPEAKER_04 16:06

Yeah. You know what's a good example of that? And so just reminded me when what happened? Nothing. Go. Okay, so something happened. Anyway, uh, you know, Lanny that uh Lanny Hossett does the co-os trainings. He had such a great analogy one time where he was talking about being like a collegiate tennis player. He was really good. He was a ranked tennis player, and he had an unbelievable forehand and it in you know, maybe average backhand, and and uh he was always trying to work on his backhand as coach at uh in college said, You have the most unbelievable forehand. Why don't you just make that even better and don't worry about the backhand because if you just play your forehand enough, you're not ever going to get to your backhand kind of. I mean, it was a yeah, it is an interesting thing about you always try to work on your weaknesses, but maybe you should just hone your strengths because you show your strengths a lot more than you show your weaknesses, I would say. Play yeah, play into your strengths and play your game. Yeah. Yeah, because I I think that there's to a point your weaknesses will come out at some point, right? It's inevitable that there are things that you'll have to work on, you'll have to manage whatever you do, and you have to know your tendencies. Like I remember doing a training way back when and and uh I think my biggest what they would call weakness was like submissiveness. And I remember saying, like, well, that's really not me. It doesn't make any sense. But they basically said, no, what the training says is that you always want to keep the group together so you will often submit to the second best idea, even if you have the best idea, because you'd rather not have any tension in the group rather than that. And it was like, okay, yeah, that's something maybe I should manage and I have to be understanding of that. But if communication is the thing that I can be best at, I'll use that way more than I'll have to use the other thing, you know? That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Yes, yeah. Well, it's uh it's the tool you're pulling out to fix the problem, right? That's right. Like why why try to use or fabricate some skill that you don't have or you don't practice that much, right? Yeah. Um so how do you think outside of like specific strengths that people have, what makes a leader good?

SPEAKER_00 18:17

Well, I think piggybacking off of what Brad just said, when he said that he tends to say that again, we're about the submissiveness.

SPEAKER_04 18:27

Well, it it was just that I would rather keep the group together than if I if I thought I had the best idea, and maybe who knows if you have the best idea. Sometimes you're talking about things that there's no best, right? It's just kind of some exercise. But if I thought I had the best idea, but I could tell that somebody really had a an idea that they were passionate about, I might submit to that idea because I know that that's also good, and I'd rather keep the keep make that person feel good and have the group kind of have that connection. It's like, yeah, that's a great idea. We should do that idea. And I know that at least that person feels empowered, like, okay, great, I had a great idea, let's go with that.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

So yeah, in that example, it it just reminded me of of psychological safety, which is this idea uh that to create for leaders to create an environment where they their employees feel comfortable speaking up and giving ideas that maybe you don't agree with. Um and that you also are a leader that can say, okay, I will give this person a win and go with their idea, even though it might not be the best idea, but acknowledging, you know, thanks for your idea. You know. So psychological safety um uh is the belief that you won't get uh reprimanded or humiliated for bringing up an idea, a mistake, um, speaking out, speaking up, and that you uh have the safety to do that. Um one of my favorite leadership gurus, Simon Senek, also calls it the circle of safety, um, which I like I kind of like better. I think it's an easier pill to swallow, circle of safety. Yeah. Um people hear psychological safety and like check out. Yeah, they check out. But I like circle of safety. Yeah. Um, do you know who that is? I you nodded when you said, yeah. Yeah, he's excellent. Yeah. I like him a lot. For sure.

SPEAKER_04 20:23

But it's a thing too where you have to understand that different people view different levels of feedback in a different way, right? So that's the whole, you know, you grew up differently than I grew up and differently, and somebody else grew up in this and this and this. And even where you would think, no, I'm not being hard on somebody, I'm just being realistic and I'm being direct, somebody might take that differently. So even as you talk about circle of safety, it's different for every person, right? Somebody may take feedback so much harder than somebody else. I mean, you we've had experiences where somebody you you give them feedback and they they really take it really, really hard because maybe they're not used to getting feedback. It could be a thing where as they grow up, they were, you know, confirmed that everything they did was amazing and all these things. And then you can have people that were ignored growing up because they had so many siblings, and it's just yeah, it's so different, it's how people grew up and to say what somebody might consider you know positive affirmation and what somebody might consider like there's some people that like if you don't talk to them and don't tell them anything, they think they're doing a good job, right? Like in that that I think from a management style is something almost not to correct, but if people grow up or or even grow up in the business where if your boss didn't call you and they didn't yell at you and didn't do something, then you're probably doing a good job. And then they take that now. Generationally, we understand that that there's some differences, right? And so they don't give anybody uh you know kudos every once in a while. Well, it's different than what it was even 10 years ago or 15 years ago. But that's part of that psychological safety. It's understanding that feedback is uh in in in To be in a really cohesive workspace, it's so different for each individual person.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Yeah. And understanding everyone's unique set of skills and strengths and focusing on that instead of their weaknesses, like we just talked about with Clifton strengths, but not even you don't have to know their Clifton strengths, just their strengths and their skill set in general, and leveraging that and focusing on that and not focusing on the weaknesses. Um, but you mentioned, you know, you know, how they were brought up too in their family. You know, we have a lot of leaders in this organization that talk over each other and interrupt. And I believe that they don't realize that they're doing that because I don't think that they would do it otherwise.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Well, that's my hope. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

No, I'm I'm following you. But I'm processing.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

But there's there's people that work in our organization that are related to one another. And so my theory is that they were probably growing up, they were probably trying to get heard. And they were try trying to be the one for the parent to to hear them. Sure. And so now they do it at work because that's how they grew up, to Brad's point. That's how they grew up was they had to be louder than their siblings so that they were heard by mom and dad. So now they have to do the same thing at work so that they're heard in the room, they have to speak up. That's my that's my theory.

SPEAKER_04 23:20

Isn't it what there was like a I think there was a part of one of the Malcolm Gladwell books talked about there's something, and I know I'm gonna get this wrong, but it was something about an index by which people it's like an authority index. And basically it said in different countries, people view authority differently in such that if you go to Germany, they're so easy and so likely to say, like, no, that's wrong. You know, we can't talk like that to their teacher. And then you might go to Japan and they just are like, Well, that's wrong, but I I can't possibly say anything. I think there was a I think it it might have been India, but I I don't know if I may I'll get it wrong, but there's a plane that went down. Yeah. And it was a whole thing that the co-pilot just culturally didn't have it in him to tell the pilot.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

I think it was an American air traffic controller or something like that.

SPEAKER_04 24:09

Well, that might have been a different one. There was one that was a co-pilot and the pilot. Oh, okay. I certainly think the co-pilot didn't have the the it just was like, yeah, I mean, the pilot thinks the plane is fine. I guess maybe I didn't I don't think so, but I guess that's you know, it's that's the pilot's main job. Where I don't think that that would happen in in Eastern Europe or Scandinavia or something like that, because they're so likely to say, like, you know, I just think something's wrong and I don't think you're right about that, right? Uh that that's the same. I mean, it's it's the same. People are different in so many different ways. And like you said, I mean, I think that there's a lot of it's it's the whole thing, you know, I think that sometimes in in Europe, the difference is in a meeting people want to see be strong and all this, they'll tend to violently agree with one another because they want to be, yeah, like I'm I agree with this too. Like this is my uh totally agree. Where other places they might just be quiet and not say anything. And it's just so different among everybody.

SPEAKER_02 25:09

How do you think like is the creating a circle of safety a skill that you can practice, or is it come natural? Is it a natural ability?

SPEAKER_00 25:20

I think both. I think I think some people have a a natural ability, maybe based on um their their career, where they've worked before, mentors that they've had, bosses that they've had. And then I think there's other people that need to learn it and need to learn how to do first, they need to learn the phrase because I don't think it's used often.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Um I think it's it's new to our organization, that concept. I've I've started to introduce it a little here and there. Um, so that's one is just and then I think um, yeah, so I think some people need to to know what it is and then how they can create it and the importance of it. I think that's key too, is understanding well, why does it matter?

SPEAKER_02 26:03

Yeah. So you're actively informing people about it. Yes. How do you go about how do you go about like telling them how to do it? Does that make sense? Or it or is it really just inform making them aware of it?

SPEAKER_00 26:21

That's the first thing. Okay. Is planting that seed of defining it. And then yes, like why is it important is the next step. Yeah. And then the third would be how how to do it.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Um and I've dude done a little bit on that, not as much. It's more of the introduction and like the repetitiveness of it. Like, this is what it is, this is why it's important. Uh, showing videos from Simon Seneca. So it's not just me. Yeah, you know, like who am I? You know, here's somebody who's uh who's a uh expert on it. Um, but then yes, and then steps on how you how you can how you can do it.

SPEAKER_03 26:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Um, you know, which one is communicating. Sorry, I'm slapping my name.

SPEAKER_02 27:06

I just I just darn it. We're into it. You're passionate about the topic and I like it.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

Um, yeah. So like the first step uh is communicating courageously. Um being vulnerable, yeah, admitting your mistakes and admitting that you don't know everything.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

So that's the that's the first thing. The next thing is listening.

SPEAKER_03 27:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Listening, uh so I mentioned earlier that leaders interrupt. Um, and that that's part of it, is that they're not listening. They're listening to respond, not to understand.

SPEAKER_04 27:43

Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

And there's this really good method, uh, and I don't know if he created it, but I just read a book called Super Communicators by Charles Dewig, Dohig, something like that. And he talks about loop for understanding. And so that's repeating back what you just heard in your own words, and then the other person and then asking clarifying questions so that till you're both on the same page and you understand 100% of what was said, which I think is, you know, we're told like when I was told anyway, for like listening skills, it's like you nod, you smile, you know, make eye contact. That doesn't show anything. You know what I mean? That doesn't prove anything, but the loop for understanding proves that you were actually listening because you're regurgitating the words back. And then they're more likely to listen to you when it's your turn to speak and tell your story. They're more likely to understand and listen to what you have to say because you just prove that you were listening to them. So it's reciprocal.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

You're helping set the tone for that like conversation.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

Do you feel like that's uh teaching people how to be good human beings?

SPEAKER_04 28:57

Well, you did mention a part of it is being good for your community too. I mean, then that's you know, that's part of being a good human being, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Yeah, I guess. Yeah. I would say it is. And I just I never thought of it that way, but but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

Well, it seems like um I don't know, I guess it goes back to like your the psychology of how you grew up and like how you were raised. Like that this a lot of that stuff seems obvious to me, but I guess like I was raised well. I don't know. Like from that sense of like maybe not raised well could be subjective, right? But like taught that those things are important. So it's does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04 29:45

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of the decisions you make today go back to exactly how you're raised, and then not not raised like on values or anything like that, but your ex home situation will dictate a lot of the way you view the world from whatever lens you view it from, right? And so you you might be, I mean, it I you know, I d don't know this exactly the psychology of all this, but if you had food scarcity or something growing up, you're not likely to be a risk taker, probably, right? And and you can, you could logically understand that you may have to do these things in business, but it just might not be the natural thing that you want to do because you grew up in a place where you couldn't do that. And that's a one bad example, probably. But there's a lot of things that dictate how you're either A, it's gonna take risks, or how you're gonna manage people, or how you're gonna view criticism. And you know, if you grew up in a strict household, you might view criticism a lot differently. Like, okay, yeah, I better track it up. If you grew up in a in a really open, uh, really communicative household, you may take that criticism differently, right? I mean, and it's all like, you know, as a manager, you totally have to understand that you don't know. I mean, people are only going to share what they're gonna share. And even if they share something, you don't know that's how it is. You have to have kind of not play vanilla, but you have to understand that that different people might view things differently. So you you can't there's certain things you can't say and can't do, and you just need to be an effective leader, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Yeah, that that's um bringing up uh emotional intelligence for me. I just did a a training on it for our LDP leadership development program. It's similar to what Reeves has.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

Yeah, we I think we stole it from you.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

But yeah Yeah, but yeah, they're they're in alignment now. Yeah. So I just did an emotional intelligence and we talk about how it how difficult it is to name and manage your emotions, especially if at growing up that you were told that children should be seen, not heard, or that you were told not to show your emotions, which is mostly men were told that, or you were told that you were too sensitive, which mostly women were were told that. And so um just again, off of Brad's point of everything kind of goes back to how you were brought up and the household and the environment that you were in, and how some people with low emotional intelligence came from those households where emotions were not good. Good or bad emotions, you do not show them, you know, or you only show good emotions, you don't show the bad emotions.

SPEAKER_04 32:19

Yeah, or only show emotions if somebody else isn't impacted, right? So there's that whole like, you know, yeah, you you can cry, but if you're in public, like, okay, yeah, you know, I gotta be quiet, like everybody's here. And so you just have a tendency to kind of just hot mask them, right? Even if it wasn't clear it that could happen.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

And emotional intelligence is part of psychological safety and not um being reactive to things as a leader, not getting visibly upset, um, you know, dismissive, having any kind of negative reaction. I mean, of course, there's gonna be your one go-to person that you can do that with. I just mean in in, you know, in front of your team or in front in front of a larger group. You have to learn to control your emotions.

SPEAKER_04 33:05

Yeah. It's it's cultural too, I think. I mean, again, you go back to even some of Europe and in in some places in the US. There's like that tall poppy syndrome where you don't want to be the one person that sticks out, right? Because the tall poppy gets cut, right? So like if you're the one that sticks out, it's kind of like, well, that's not really good. So I'm gonna blend in, even if you have a million good ideas. And there might be people on your team, like let's say you lead a team of 10 people. There might be one person on your team that has amazing ideas and never says them because they never they they just there's never any positive reinforcement from being different or being having the one opinion. Like, well, no, I don't actually think that's a good idea. I think it's a good leader. You need if you can identify it, hard to do, but if you can, maybe go and say, like, what do you think about that? Like we're we've talked and I noticed you haven't said anything. It's like being a good facilitator in something. You know, we've there's been a lot of people of saying things. I've noticed you've been quiet. What do you think about that? Exactly. You might have a great answer, but they're not they just don't say it.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Exactly. And there are people like that. Yeah. Um and maybe they're like that because they have low communication and they're clifting strengths, or maybe it's because you've already brought up an idea once and that leader has already dismissed it and then you're never gonna say it again.

SPEAKER_02 34:23

If you um Okay, so if you because of your past, if you had low emotional intelligence, can you improve it?

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

How?

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Um so first you have to you have to be able to name your emotions.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

And so there's like five emotions, let's say as an example that everyone knows. Happy, sad, mad. But under each of those, there's like 10 other descriptive words that, you know, frustrated, annoyed, under mad, you know. Um and so first being able to name it, and then if you can name it, you can tame it. And then learning to manage those emotions. And there's a whole litany of things that you can do to manage your emotions.

SPEAKER_04 35:15

You know, and we we talked about that before, but I I think from the emotion side, the thing that was helpful for me is when you communicate your emotions, communicate them effectively, meaning straightforward and not saying I felt mad, you say I was mad. And then it takes the objectiveness of like, or the subjectiveness of like, well, you shouldn't have felt that way. Right, right. Because if you said I was mad, when you cut me off during conversation the other day, I I was frustrated. It can't don't say I felt frustrated because then people are so apt to say, like, well, you shouldn't have felt that way, or don't feel that way, or I didn't mean it to be that way. But they can't deny that it's an actual thing that happened, right? If you say I was frustrated, they can't say, well, or maybe less likely to say you shouldn't have been, because it is something that actually happened, not just a feeling. Even though it's kind of the same thing, it's just a communication of that that I think it's easier to say, uh, you know, I felt this is very it's like a lighter way of saying that it actually happened. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 36:24

Yeah, well, you're talking about like the way that you would express the emotion yourself. So you're helping with that communication and giving people a different route of expressing it verbally. Yeah. But if you're on the other side and that person doesn't know how to handle it, your advice would be to not dismiss the way that people feel, right? Yeah. I think like if they say, I feel or felt frustrated, you shouldn't set you shouldn't dismiss that by saying, Oh, don't feel that way, or you shouldn't feel that way.

SPEAKER_04 36:56

You should say mean it that way or something like that. Like you could you could easily say, or you could just be caught in the loop of saying, like, well, that wasn't the way I intended it, or something. But if somebody says I was hurt by that, you feel it much harder. And you so then it elicits a much more like, well, that's uh really unfortunate. I I I that that's that's something I'll work on and and just you know take that advice.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

Yeah, and you and so you asked, you know, how how to get better at it or if you can get better at it. And it's the same thing with psychological safety, in my opinion, is that it's the first step is awareness. So I think a lot of our leaders know the terminology of emotional intelligence, but I don't know that they actually know what it means. I don't know that we've ever done a training on it. I like I said, I did it for LDP, and the feedback that I got from it was was good feedback that they were that it was very thought-provoking for themselves of what they needed to do um to be a better leader when it comes to that. Um, and that it's okay to to to show emotion and be vulnerable. Um I wanted to go back because I lost my train of thought earlier, but I wanted to go back when um Brad was talking about, you know, in meetings and making sure that voices are heard.

SPEAKER_03 38:12

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

And that to for the leader to say, Hey, we haven't heard from you, you know, do you, you know. Um one rule that I love is no one speaks twice before everyone speaks once.

SPEAKER_04 38:26

That's good. I absolutely love that rule. That's good. Do you think that we have enough people trained as facilitators in the company? Because I think that that is a great rule. But I think unless you if you're in a meeting of five or six, unless everybody knows that rule, it's tough to get it. I mean, I it'd be so great if you in every meeting you had somebody that knew that to say, like, well, wait, hold on one second. We haven't heard from Cheryl yet. So Cheryl, can you what do you think of this? Do you agree? Do you disagree? Do you have a different opinion or something like that? Maybe we need more people to be able to speak up during a big meeting.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Yeah, there's so so the book where I got some of this from is called the the psychological safety playbook. And they actually recommend having an inclusion booster is what they call it at meetings where there is an appointed person who makes sure that every voice is heard. Interesting. It is interesting that you said that not having read the book. Yeah. And just knowing that.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

Wait, say that again? They have an inclusion booster booster.

SPEAKER_04 39:27

Okay. So at the beginning of a meeting, you would say, like, hey, you're gonna be the set, you're gonna be the inclusion booster. So keep us honest and make sure before anybody they move on from a topic we've heard from everybody.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

And so that's just an additional role for that person within the meeting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Just in the meeting, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

That's a great idea because I don't do well with that, I don't think. Like naturally. I think um, and maybe that's I don't know, some of my other strengths. Maybe restorative uh trumps that as like I'm going, like we're having conversation, and if it's building up steam to go somewhere, I'm like, okay, well, let's keep going. Because without making sure that everybody's included.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

So Brad also has included in his top five. Uh all the pieces coming together. Wow. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 40:18

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 40:18

Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 40:19

Yeah, it's I I want like even for group work when we do a group work thing, like if we're gonna meet tomorrow, you know, to to mention that somebody should take that. Can everybody raise their hand in the room if you want to take your you're gonna be this inclusion booster? And and you can say, before anybody else says anything, let's make sure everybody's included and has something to say. And that what's interesting is it could people could put people in an uncomfortable uncomfortable position because you could have people that just want to be uh in the background and along for the ride, and now they know they have to say something before the group can move on. How do you what do you say to that?

SPEAKER_00 40:56

I mean, what do you think? It is tough, but you know, we're not in grade school. You know what I mean? Like in grade school it was okay that you have your knee again. Like we're just like it was okay when you were in grade school and you didn't speak up and raise your hand, but I don't I don't know. And in this in in a corporate environment, I don't know that that's that's that's acceptable. I I will say though that I have found that relators tend to be introverts and um woo tend to be extroverts. So when you have a lot of relators in the room and and Barrett has a lot of relators, that they tend to be more introverts and they tend not to speak up. Um, but that doesn't mean that they have good things to say. It just means they're they're gonna be a little bit more shy and they might you might have to push them, which is why you say, Hey, I we haven't heard from you. And you know, do you have any any thoughts to this to add to this?

SPEAKER_04 41:51

I think I'm an ambivert.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

I am. I have I have both relater and woo in my top 10. I am an ambivert.

SPEAKER_04 41:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:58

That's a word.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

Yeah, dude. It's a word. Um, you know, don't you it's like ambidextrious, but yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

So you're so so I am introverted in my personal life and I am extroverted at work.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

Interesting. Why are relators typically introverts?

SPEAKER_00 42:16

Because they like a small group of friends.

SPEAKER_02 42:18

Uh to relate deeply too.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Mm-hmm. Exactly. And Woo loves to network.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

And they love meeting new people. And then when you pair that with Includer, then you're bringing everybody in.

SPEAKER_04 42:32

That's true. Yeah. Yeah. But I have like a lot of really close that that was like one of the things like fluff and strengths is like one thing was like I have a lot of close friends, and then like I like to meet new people. It's like, well, I like both those things. So it's like right in the middle. Yeah. Do you have related?

SPEAKER_00 42:47

Do you have relator in your top 10, Tonya? In your six through 10?

SPEAKER_04 42:50

I think so, yeah. Maybe in my six through ten. Let's find out.

SPEAKER_02 42:54

Well, it wouldn't just be saying that you can't have close friends.

SPEAKER_04 42:58

It's just saying no, I know, but in my head, I just want to pick one side.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

But so not to go down a Clifton Strengths rabbit hole, because I don't want to steal Nick's thunder, but um, so every strength can have a blind spot or a barrier. So it can swing too far. And so for Woo, because they like to meet a lot of new people, their barrier or blind spot that could get inway their success is that they seem difficult to get to know that they're that they're not authentic because they want to meet everybody and talk to everybody. And then for relator, it's also difficult to get to know and they might seem clickish. Yeah. Because they dislike their group of people.

SPEAKER_02 43:37

Yeah. Because they're comfortable there.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:40

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 43:41

Interesting. Kind of my stuff. I like it.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

Yeah. I I love distress.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

It is fun to go down that path. And I think it's all well, I think you were nailing, nailing it, and what you went into with like psychological safety, well, circle. Of safety. Let's use that because it is better. Okay. Circle of safety, emotional intelligence, and self-awareness. I mean, honestly, like, would you say Clifton strengths is just like an emotional intelligence and self-awareness tool?

SPEAKER_05 44:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:14

So it's really just those are a lot of the key things that make you a good leader, right? Is being in tune with yourself, understanding how you uh you know, come off to people or whatever, right? And like um, I don't know. I mean, I don't know how you well, I guess clifts and strengths is like one of the tools of how telling you how you could lean into those to utilize them in the workplace, which is why that that assessment even exists, right?

SPEAKER_00 44:47

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 44:49

There's so many assessments.

SPEAKER_04 44:50

That's a tough thing.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

It's like, yeah, but well, okay, so the other reason why I like Clifton Strengths is because Reeves, Delta, and Barrett all do it. So it's become a common language now for all of our companies. So the two biggest subsidiaries now have a common language to talk to each other and be like, oh, you're this, you're that. And it's it's it's so it makes um it makes understanding people so much better. Yeah. When you when you know their strengths.

SPEAKER_02 45:18

Yes, agree. In a common language. And it does a good job of like of saying, hey, here's how your strength may show up based on some other ones, and and at work you could do this, or here might be blind spots or whatever. I mean, other tools kind of do that, but it's it hasn't been to the level where I've felt as connected to it as Clifton.

SPEAKER_00 45:42

Yeah, like I took Discs before.

SPEAKER_04 45:44

Right. So disk has been around how long, right? And I think everything is iterative off the previous thing. I think you know, Clifton Strengths being one of the relatively new ones, at least that I'm aware of, and it's probably been around for a long time. But it's but it's ri been refined and all those things. She's like, yeah, yeah. She shut that down. Shut it down. No, I mean I think that all these things are iterative. So the newest one you take is not going to be the one from 20 years ago when it first started. It's going to be with all the new information that it is. And so you get all the information that was good about disk and EQI and Myers Briggs and all these things. Take all the information, put them into the new latest, greatest model of whatever you're taking, right? So they're all, they're not on their first level. They're all it's been an iteration of itself. So anything, anytime you take a new one, I think there's always really cool insights to learn because it's all the information for the past 15 years distilled into kind of a new way of thinking about it.

SPEAKER_00 46:42

Yeah. And in the LDP, um, the very first thing that we go over at all all the companies is um self-awareness and your leadership. And so we do, we don't, we might not do the same courses at Reeves as we do in Barrett, but the the focus in the beginning is self-awareness. And we both do the Clifton strengths. And the other one, the other thing that I use is Johari window method, it's called. And it's um I don't know that. So it's basically there's four quadrants. There's what's known to me and known to others. What's known to others and not known to me, what's known to me, not to others, and then unknown. So basically it's saying like there's parts of yourself that you hide at work and you shouldn't hide, you know, as it as it's work appropriate, of course.

SPEAKER_06 47:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

Um, but that the the more that you make your window bigger of known to me, known to others, is a more effective leader that you can be. Yeah. Because then your your people are knowing you as a person. Yeah. And you're not hiding things and you're not just there to get the work done, you know, you're there as a human being.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

Yeah. Yeah. They know all aspects of you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:01

The idea of that one, I think, can and the Hans uh taught us that one. It was like if you have something that's a two known to me and a seven known to others, or something like that, it's such a disjointed understanding of like how people think you want to be treated or up people and then how you actually want to be treated, or something like that. It's like it can be really disruptive because people might think they're doing the right thing and they're doing the exact opposite thing that you want. We we had a situation where we lined up in a row, like one through is it eight? Is it one through eight or something? Or the not this one that's this was numbers, but it was it was like you lined up and you were here, and they said, Okay, now switch to like what you want to be. This is like how you how others view you, and this is how you want to be viewed, and everybody stands here, and they say, Okay, switch. And there's some people doing the long walk to the other end of the line, it's like, oh crap, you better figure your stuff out because you might be miserable because you think everybody thinks that this is how you want to be treated, but that's the opposite, really. That was a interesting one.

SPEAKER_02 49:07

It is interesting. Maybe you should do it. Let's scrap the let's scrap the agenda and just do that. Well, Sherry could train on it. That's true.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

Yeah, no, I I think self-awareness is is so important. Yeah. It's so important. It's it really is the first step for any of this that we're talking about. Yeah. Self-awareness.

SPEAKER_02 49:27

Do you think that it shows up more than just work?

SPEAKER_04 49:31

What?

SPEAKER_02 49:32

I don't know, self-awareness.

SPEAKER_04 49:35

Showed up in the terminator.

SPEAKER_00 49:36

I think the lack you mean the lack? The lack or something.

SPEAKER_02 49:40

Well then I guess I'm just I guess I'm just uh confirming that uh it's good to work on this stuff for you in your life, not just for your career or work, right?

SPEAKER_00 49:53

Yeah. Self-aware. I mean, because EQ is is definitely home life too.

SPEAKER_03 49:59

Yeah, you know, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

Yeah. Having the you know, the emotional intelligence to have if you know if you have an argument with your spouse.

SPEAKER_03 50:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:06

You know, um, it can e escalate really quickly if you don't have EQ.

SPEAKER_04 50:12

True.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

So yes.

SPEAKER_04 50:14

And raising kids.

unknown 50:15

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 50:15

But and and that goes back to like even the crucial conversations thing.

SPEAKER_02 50:18

It's a mess. It is a mess.

SPEAKER_04 50:20

You just learn on the fly. But that's the crucial conversations thing, too.

SPEAKER_00 50:24

It's like that's why I don't love that. No thanks.

SPEAKER_04 50:28

But it it's it does go back a lot of times to crucial conversations where the what somebody might see might not be the whole story. So sometimes you have to say, like, well, wait a minute, you know, this is not actually how it is. Like to understand that that's the conversation that needs to happen. It's okay, yeah, we need to really get to the bottom of this and talk about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:49

Yeah, because we make assumptions all the time. Yep. Of like, oh, this person's late. They don't they don't care about their job. Yeah. That's not true. Did you ask them what's going on in their lives? Yeah, exactly. Why are they late?

SPEAKER_02 51:02

Yeah, yeah. Right. Anything else to button it up? You want to sum anything up? I feel like we have, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 51:15

Yeah, I I can't think of anything other than, of course, I'm gonna give a plug for Clifton Strengths. Yeah. So if uh if you're listening uh and you're Barrett, reach out to me. If you are Reeves, reach out to your HRBP or Nick and uh get take your Clifton Strengths if you haven't already. For sure. That's the first step. Self-awareness. Yes. Coach you, coach, coach coaching, coaching.

SPEAKER_02 51:39

I'm sorry, I used the wrong terminology. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:42

Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02 51:43

Ah, jeez. All right. As tradition goes, the last guest leaves the next guest a question. So the question left for you is in your opinion, what do you think the best teams consistently do better than the average teams?

SPEAKER_00 52:03

That's a really good question. So right off the top of my head, and this might just be my own bias and what I like personally.

SPEAKER_03 52:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

But laughter.

SPEAKER_03 52:25

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 52:27

Um, I I recently told somebody that my love language at work is laughter.

SPEAKER_01 52:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

I love to laugh at work. And if I'm not laughing, I'm not happy. I'm bored. I'm borderline miserable because laughing is a is a connection. Right. We're making connections. We're bonding, which goes to my relator of having close friends. And I think it's good to laugh when we're doing heavy things. You know, if we're if our workload is heavy, it's it's remember, it's good to remember the levity of what we do and and that, you know, we're not, we're not, we're not saving lives. We're building roads, we're we're keeping people safe. Yes, that's very important. But at the end of the day, you know, we're not we're not in the NICU, you know. Um, so I think I think laughter is really important, and I just think it shows um a camaraderie. So, and I think it shows psychological safety that you are you feel safe that you can laugh and that you can make fun of yourself.

SPEAKER_02 53:33

Mm-hmm. That's good. That's gold.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 53:39

That's gold. I can relate to that a lot, I think. So yeah. Thanks for sharing that.

SPEAKER_00 53:44

Yeah. And thanks for talking. Yeah. This is great. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Yeah. It was fun.

SPEAKER_02 53:52

If y'all enjoyed the episode, please rate our show and leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, and check out Delta on all social media platforms at Delta Companies, and our website at Delta C O S looks like Deltacos.com. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week.