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On The Surface with Delta
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On The Surface with Delta
Jeff Glenn on Leadership, Mentorship, and High-Performing Teams
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Why do some leaders consistently build high-performing teams, while others struggle to unlock their team's full potential?
In this episode of On The Surface, Seth Stevens and Jordan Janet sit down with Jeff Glenn, owner of Glenview Strategies, leadership consultant, and strategic planning expert, to discuss what separates good leaders from great ones and how organizations can close the gap between their potential and their performance.
Jeff shares his unique career journey from working odd jobs and riding the back of a trash truck to serving in government, working at Delta Companies, and eventually building a business dedicated to leadership development. Along the way, he shares the lessons, mentors, and experiences that shaped his approach to leadership.
They explore:
- Why leadership starts with leading yourself first
- The importance of intentional personal growth and development
- How great leaders build trust with their teams
- Why focusing on strengths creates better results than fixing weaknesses
- The role mentors play in accelerating growth and success
- How to identify and develop high-performing teams
- Why evaluated experience is more valuable than experience alone
- Common mistakes leaders make when managing people and culture
- How organizations can close the gap between what they want to be known for and what they're actually known for
From leadership lessons and team dynamics to strategic planning and organizational growth, this conversation highlights a simple truth: the most effective leaders never stop learning, growing, and investing in the people around them.
If you're leading a team, managing people, growing into a leadership role, or looking to become a more effective leader, this episode offers practical insights you can apply right away.
Thanks for listening!
Check us out:
Welcome back to On the Surface. I'm your host, Seth Stevens, and this week Jordan and I are joined by Jeff Glenn. Jeff is the owner of Glenn View Strategies, where he and his wife teach and consult on leadership and strategic planning. And in this episode, we dive into a lot of those same topics. But first, if you haven't already, show some love to the show and go follow, rate, and review our show on whatever listening app you're using and talk about it with your friends and on social media to help get the word out. All right, let's get into it. I don't know a lot about your background. Uh I think you worked here probably right before I started working here. So we'd never we've never overlap that I know of. But why don't you just go through your background?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, no, I was I was here, let's see, that would have been two thousand and seven, November of two thousand and seven, I think is when I started here. And then I started Glenview in June of 2010. Okay, that's when I left here. Uh no, grew up uh grew up in New Madrid, Missouri, uh, which is the unofficial capital of the Boot Heel. Um But uh that's that's where I spent my formative years. Uh and it's kind of funny, I was I was the kind of kid uh, you know, we all have gifts in life. I'm convinced that everybody we we come into contact with has has gifts. And uh and and I just I I didn't have to study when I was a kid in school. I I was able to get good grades without doing any kind of studying at all. And and so uh when I graduated high school, I actually had an eighth-grade science teacher tell me that I needed to go to Rolla and become an engineer. And so he he put that in my head when I was in eighth grade, and it never left my head the entire time I was in high school. I was convinced that Rolla was the only destination for me. And so uh when I graduated high school, went up to to what was then UMR, and uh I spent a year and a half there. And if you're the kind of person who doesn't study, uh UMR will chew you alive. And uh and so it it chewed me up and it spit me out and uh and said, young man, you're not gonna be an engineer. Yeah. And so uh I transferred to uh SEMO, which was closer to home. And while I changed geography, I didn't change myself. And so it only took another year before SEMO spit me up and and uh chewed me up and spit me out. And then uh I kind of bounced around, did odd jobs for about five years. Uh I spent uh a couple years in in St. Louis uh riding the back of a trash truck collecting trash. Um I was in the best shape of my life because of those those garbage routes, the drivers, uh, they don't get paid by the hour, they get paid by the route. And so the guy who drove my truck never took his foot off the accelerator. And so I would I would be running, literally running down the street, throwing cans into the back of the truck, just trying to catch the truck. But uh the best shape of my life, and you know, bounced around to odd job to odd job for about five years. And then I I I had the good fortune to meet somebody who uh who came into my life and said, you know what, you you need to push yourself a little harder. You need to try to reach your potential a little bit more. And so uh convinced me to go back to school and uh and and get my degree, and and I had actually changed myself by then. Uh, and so I was a lot more successful in the second attempt. So I went back to school, uh, went to CMO, got a got an undergraduate degree, and then immediately rolled into a master's degree and finished that. And uh and then it wasn't long after that that uh that I I was fortunate enough. I'd I'd gone to work for the Cape Chamber of Commerce, and um we had uh the back during one of the election cycles, I can't remember the year, but uh Vice President Dick Cheney came to Cape for a campaign event uh for Senator for for uh a gentleman who was running for United States Senate, uh Jim Talent. And so while I was working at the chamber, I worked with some of the the local folks at the federal level to help uh pull off that Cheney event out at the airport. And uh and and in doing so, I I caught the attention of a couple of folks who were uh who were key to uh who to who would become Senator Talent's uh campaign. And so when Jim was elected to the Senate, uh I was invited to be his uh district director for Southeast Missouri. So took that position, uh, had the wonderful fortune to work with some incredible leaders uh during that period of time. Worked for Jim for four years. I covered Southeast Missouri for him. I was his his top staff member for a 22 county region uh in southeast Missouri. And then when Jim lost his reelection bid in 2006, I was out of a job. And so I went to uh we we moved to Jefferson City. Uh went to work for the Department of Revenue under then Governor uh Matt Blund, uh, and I was the chief lobbyist for the Missouri Department of Revenue. Uh, did that for a little while, uh, and then the administration asked me to move over to the Division of Workers' Compensation uh to serve as uh Deputy Director for the Division of Workers' Compensation, and so I made that move. Uh, did that for what seems like 15 minutes before uh before we made a decision to move back to Cape. Um when we moved to Jefferson City, um I have two sons. Uh they're grown now. Uh the oldest one is 28 and the youngest one is 20, no, 27 and 24. And uh, but but then uh the oldest one was in second grade and the youngest one was in pre-K. And so we moved to Jefferson City, and I'll never forget the day we moved to Jefferson City, it started snowing. When the moving truck moved into our our our home in Jefferson City, it started snowing, and I don't think it quit for three months. And uh at one point I walked into the the director of the Department of Revenue's office and I said, Listen, if it doesn't stop snowing, I'm I'm packing it in, I'm going back to Cape. I I can't handle these winters. But uh but a couple of months after we moved, uh, our son's birthdays are about a month apart, and so we decided we're gonna have a birthday party for them, joint birthday party. They haven't really had time to meet a lot of people, and so we sent some invitations to the the oldest son's second grade class and the youngest pre-K class, and uh we rented out there's a little par three uh golf course as you're headed into Jefferson City from from uh from the north, just off to the right, right before you cross the Missouri River, there's a little par three golf course. And so we we rented that out for a birthday party kind of thing. And uh so between the two kids, they only had three friends.
SPEAKER_02Oh, they had to be a good thing.
SPEAKER_05And it just oh, it broke our hearts. Uh as parents, Tracy and I were just devastated by that. And uh and so we thought, you know what, this this this isn't how we do things. And so we immediately got on the phone, called down to Cape and and rented out the student recreation center uh for a couple weeks later, and uh started calling a bunch of our friends in Cape who had kids who were our friend or our kids' friends.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And uh and said, Hey, we're gonna have a party in a couple weeks. It's on a Saturday, we hope you can make it. Please don't bring any gifts. We just want our kids to have time to play with their their friends. And so when we did that, 35 kids showed up.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And Tracy and I looked at each other and we said, you know what, we got to change our geography. We got we've got to get back to Cape. This is where our kids belong. And and we were doing great professionally uh in Jefferson City, but uh, but our kids were struggling. Yeah. And so we made the decision to move back, and that's actually how I ended up at uh Delta Companies.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05Uh I called a good friend who was the human resources director here at the time, uh, Debbie. Uh, and and Debbie said, you know, I think we can probably find a position for you. And Tracy went to work at the local Cape Chamber, and so we made the decision to move back to Cape. Uh never have I ever regretted the decision to move back to Cape. We took a we took a significant pay cut to move back, but our family began to thrive again. Uh the kids were doing great. Uh the oldest one ended up, he uh he graduated high school and and got a uh significant scholarship as a as a vocal performer and attended Lyndon Wood University on a vocal scholarship. Uh the youngest became a state champion swimmer at Cape Central, and and he's now finishing up his chemistry degree. Uh, but uh that decision to move back was one that we've never regretted. And so went to work here at Delta, uh, worked here for about two and a half years uh and uh got the itch to uh start my own business. And so uh knew that lobbying would be a a piece of what we did just based on my experience with government and and that sort of thing. But also uh felt like leadership development was something that that I wanted to get involved with. Um I had had the good fortune, especially when I worked for um Jim Talent, uh we had an incredible chief of staff. His name is Mark Strand, uh, just really one of the best leaders I've ever had the opportunity to serve under. Uh he's the kind of guy that, you know, if he calls me today, you know, and and says, Jeff, I need a favor, the answer is yes. I I don't care what the question is, don't care what the favor is, I'll do anything for that guy. He, you know, he lost his his authority over me when Jim lost that re-election bid 20 years ago. But now 20 years later, he still has incredible influence over me because of the way that he treated me, the way that he developed me and and and uh all of our team members. Uh and so I knew leadership development was going to be something that we were gonna want to get into. And so I went out and I immediately bought this this software package. Um, I think there were like 60 different courses on leadership that you could teach as part of this software package. It had all the PowerPoint presentations and all the the booklets that you printed and handed out to participants and all that stuff. So then I bought it and I went out and I started talking about leadership. And we were probably, I don't know, uh four years into our business, and I started thinking, you know, there's got to be something better than this. And so that's when we started doing a little research and and became affiliated with uh the John Maxwell team.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05Uh and that's when we really started to the just the level of of the courses and the programs that we were able to present, it just took it to another level. I I joke with people all the time. I say, you know, if I if I could go back to the people I taught leadership to in those early days, the very first thing I would do is apologize. It's not that what we were teaching them was wrong, it just wasn't any good. Yeah. And and so the Maxwell affiliation really took our leadership offerings to a higher level. And and honestly, I've grown a lot in the last, you know, 15 years, 16 years now that we've been doing this. Uh, I'm a lot better than I was in those in those days. So yeah, that's kind of how we've evolved, how I have a good grief. I th I think I just took you from my childhood all the way up to my 50s.
SPEAKER_00What's interesting about that, you said so you left Delta and started Glennview uh June of 2010. Yep. I started at Delta June of 2010.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I always tell people there my phone number still pops up in a lot of places as Jeff Glenn.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_00Because my phone number is his old corporate phone. Oh, really?
SPEAKER_05It is.
SPEAKER_00So and you were you were in HR of some capacity, isn't it?
SPEAKER_05It's weird. I was HR sales, you know, it was it was kind of a combination kind of thing. Uh I also did governmental affairs for for Delta. And and so it was this weird, you know, it was one of those things where I think I think Delta just felt sorry for me and just said, you know what, we're gonna employ you. We're just gonna come up with different ways to to to figure out how to make it work.
SPEAKER_00What was fun about that is you know, think about all those different things that he did in the range of people that then had his phone number. People didn't call in me. Yeah, who's like 24 years old, just starting here, like, I don't know how to answer this question. I got some real interesting phone calls. I bet you did.
SPEAKER_05I just want to apologize right now for it was fun.
SPEAKER_01I bet you did. So how did um how did uh you kind of start advertising yourself to teach leadership courses and then like what's your I guess what was your main clientele? Sure. And and is it still kind of the same today?
SPEAKER_05Oh yeah, no, we've evolved quite a bit in that in that regard. When we first started doing leadership, um we would do public events. You know, I'd do a half day workshop or a full-day workshop and and and those sorts of things. And would um would advertise to our internal networks. Uh it's interesting in in all of our years in business, we've been in business for for 16 years now, uh, we've never uh spent any money on advertising. It's always been word of mouth. Uh, you know, we've done a little social media stuff, but but no, no mass advertising. Um well, I guess I guess there is an exception to that, our live to lead event. We do do a little bit of advertising, but that's all that's all trade out. Um but it was mainly word of mouth within our networks. You know, I'd I'd built up a a pretty extensive network uh through my work with Jim Talent as as a member of a Senate staff uh and through some of the other connections that I had made through the years. And so we did a lot of word-of-mouth stuff, or word of mouth stuff. Um, and and did a lot of public stuff in those early years. And now we've we've kind of evolved. We don't really do the the public uh workshops anymore outside of our live to lead event that we do every year. Uh now it's it's mainly uh organizations reaching out to us saying, hey, you know, we we we need some leadership development training, we need some strategic planning. Uh, can you come in and and help us out? And and it's really we we work with those individual organizations now, and we haven't offered public training, you know, outside of that live to lead event for gosh, I don't know, maybe eight or ten years now.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. So when people call you and want you to come, you know, uh teach your leadership stuff, what do you think they're actually trying to solve? You know, you said that they say, well, we need leadership or strategy, but what's it really boil down to?
SPEAKER_05You know, I think for the for the most part, when organizations reach out to us, it's it's because they've recognized that there is a gap between their potential and their current performance.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05And they they they recognize that there is a gap, but they can't quite figure out how to close that gap. And and a lot of times it's because they're too close to the problem. Uh and they need somebody to come in with some outside eyes, some outside perspective to be able to take a look at the situation and say, okay, you know, uh, is this going on in your organization? It's funny when when uh whenever we meet with a potential client, they'll they'll call us up and say, hey, we need leadership development. Can you come help us out? Um, we'll schedule a meeting, we'll go sit down with them, and and we'll ask a whole lot of questions. You know, I learned a long time ago. I could go in there and say, okay, we can do this, we can do this, we can do this. And none of that really solves the problem that that they're facing as an organization because every organization is unique. And so what we like to do is we like to go in and sit down and have a conversation and say, you know, where do you where do you see your greatest potential? Uh, you know, what are some of the issues that you seem to be struggling with? You know, and and just sit down and have about an hour-long conversation with them to try to figure out exactly what it is that they need so that we can take our our library of resources and figure out, okay, what's the match? Yeah. You know, what what what can we deploy uh that's gonna help you solve the the question you're trying to solve? Right. And so it's it's really a conversation. And and and it really does come down to they they know there's a gap between their potential and their current performance. They're just struggling to figure out what that gap is, and that outside set of eyes sometimes helps to to reveal things and and create some of those aha moments.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that makes sense. Uh I mean, I think that we've been in those situations ourselves, and you can't you know something's wrong, you just can't quite put your thumb on it, and that so that it's super helpful for you like in your seat to be able to come in and say, Hey, let me take the burden off of you. I'm gonna ask you a bunch of questions. You don't need to tell me exactly what you want me to teach, I guess.
SPEAKER_05I'm gonna come in and try to figure it out based on and and one of the wonderful things about bringing somebody in with that outside perspective is I don't have ownership over the problem.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And so it's a lot easier for me to to bring solutions to bear uh because I don't have ownership. Sometimes when when we as leaders have ownership over a problem, uh there's a sense of pride in the accomplishments that that come along with it. And and so it's it becomes difficult sometimes when you have that ownership over a problem to see all the potential solutions that are out there. And so just having that outside perspective, you know, there's a a lot of really smart leaders that have really tough problems that they can't solve. And it's it's not because they they lack intelligence or they lack leadership ability, it's just they're so close to the problem and they have that ownership that sometimes having those uh those outside eyes helps to create some breakthrough moments.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It's funny how groundbreaking that outside perspective can feel sometimes when you bring someone in for that outside perspective and they point something, you're like, oh my gosh, yes. But it's like you are so close to the problem, you can't, it's hard to and then I I resonate with what you're saying about not having ownership um because I you know I had done a lot of culture development through Goal Zero, our our safety program, right? Um, and being able to look at those problems from an outsider's perspective without ownership in the particular issue that we were addressing, um, it was so much easier to kind of work through the problem and and get everybody aligned on it than it is, you know, now as a as a manager uh being in the midst of it, you know, it's harder, it's it's harder to see. That is absolutely interesting.
SPEAKER_01That's fair. Yeah. That's very fair. Uh are the leaders that you're going in and helping with at companies, are they mostly like executive leadership? Are they middle managers? Are they all over the board?
SPEAKER_05It it's a little bit of both. Um we a lot of times when we get calls from executive leaders, um, it's usually a a couple different things. Um the executive leaders certainly are the ones that reach out to us for stri help with strategic planning.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05Um, but then a lot of times the issues that those executive leaders reach out to us for uh uh uh they they kind of revolve around culture within an organization. Um, the I I don't like the current culture of my organization. I can't quite figure out how to change it. Is there anything you can do to help with that? So we get a lot of that. Uh, but then we also work a lot with the uh you know, middle managers, lower managers, first-time managers, um, because a lot of times what happens within organizations is is people get promoted based on technical ability into leadership positions. I'm I'm I'm really good at at making this widget, and so I get promoted to be the the supervisor of people who make this widget.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_05And they get promoted based on that technical ability, and they and they sometimes don't have the interpersonal uh skills to be able to lead others. Uh there's a big difference between being a star performer and being a star creator. And so we do a lot of work with folks who are just getting into leadership positions. Uh it's funny, uh I mentioned earlier we used to do some public stuff back in the early days. We did a public mastermind group, one of our very first mastermind groups we ever did when we started working with the Maxwell team. Uh, and I had a local, I won't mention his name, but I had a local uh plant manager uh for a for a plant here in Cape Girardeo. And uh he went through the class and at the end of the class, we we filmed some testimonials that we were going to put on our website to convince people to come and attend our mastermind groups. And in his testimonial, um, he said, you know, I've been in a leadership position for 35 years, and I wish I had done this 35 years ago because I made a lot of mistakes along the way that I might not have made if I had done this early on. And so we love to get that opportunity to work with some first-time leaders, uh, people who have just been promoted, because there's so much potential there. Uh, and there's so much opportunity there to be able to help them add value to them so that they can turn around and add value to others.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, makes sense. Yeah. What do you find yourself teaching the most?
SPEAKER_05Uh I think uh it's it's probably self leadership. Okay. Uh the most. Um, you know, uh uh a lot of people get promoted into leadership positions and and the very first thing they think is, oh, I've got to learn how to lead others. Uh, the very first person you need to learn how to lead is yourself. Uh, if you can't lead yourself effectively, then you're not going to be able to lead others effectively. And so while it may not be the thing that we focus on in the very beginning, at the end of the day, ultimately, it always comes down to personal growth and development. Uh and and that's really true no matter where you are on the leadership spectrum. Uh, whether you're a first-time leader or a seasoned leader, uh, if you want to continue to grow and develop your people, you've got to continue to grow and develop. Um, Maxwell uses a wonderful analogy. He says, you know, if you imagine uh your leadership ability on a scale of one to ten, if your leadership ability is a seven, uh, you're never going to be able to lead anyone whose leadership ability is above a six. Because what's going to happen is once they reach your level of leadership, they're going to go find somebody else to follow and learn from and grow from. And you're not going to be able to lead them. So if you want to continue to lead your people to higher and higher levels, then you yourself as a leader have to continue to grow and develop. Uh, and I love that, and I I think it's absolutely true. And I've seen it through these 16 years that we've been doing uh leadership development. I've seen it at all different levels of leadership. You know, everybody has an opportunity to become a better leader tomorrow than they were today. And so it's that it really gets down to that personal growth and development, is is really at the core of everything that we do. Now, you know, we offer leadership development training uh that that is situational uh leadership. Um Maxwell wrote a great book called uh Leadership Gold that I teach often. Uh and it's it's 26 chapters, and each chapter, the thing I love about that book is each chapter is like eight or nine pages. So there each chapter is a really quick read, right? And I tell people all the time that that book is really, it's a it's a leadership toolbox, and each chapter is a different tool in that toolbox. You know, if you need a hammer, you got this chapter, if you need a screwdriver, you've got this chapter, you know, if you need a ruler, you've got this chapter. And so it's it's a great book, especially we do we teach that a lot for uh first-time leaders, just to give them a kind of a foundation to work from, you know, if I'm if I'm in a tough leadership situation, I can think, okay, what's really going on here? And I can go back to my book and and say, okay, I'm gonna pull this chapter out and I'm gonna apply this leadership principle to this problem uh that we're experiencing. And it's a it's a great resource.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Yeah, cool. Do you um what ends up being your favorite thing to teach?
SPEAKER_05Oh gosh, my favorite thing. Um honestly, I live and and it's not one particular topic, but it's it's one particular experience. Um I live for the aha moment.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05Um anytime we're conducting, and and you know, I mentioned the the public trainings in the early years, and and now we do more corporate, you know. One of the things we'll do is uh a lot of organizations will bring us in and they'll say, Okay, I've got my leadership team. I'd like for you to spend six months with my leadership team, meet with them twice a month and and and talk about leadership. And so we'll go through that process and and inevitably uh it happens every single time and usually multiple times with an organization. Um, you just have those aha moments where we're sitting around the table and we're talking about leadership, and somebody at the table hears something that just instantly clicks and and they're just like, I can't believe I never thought of this in this way. I can't believe that it's so simple when I think of my my problem becomes really easy to solve when I think about it this way. And and I just for lack of a better term, I just it's the aha moment. Yeah, I live for the aha moments. And and it's such it brings such great joy to my life to to be in a room full of of leaders who are good leaders who are still able to experience those aha moments. That's just that's that's the that's the stuff that that keeps my fire burning.
SPEAKER_00Well, as you say, there's always especially leaders that continue to be leaders throughout their career and throughout their life, they're continuously developing, right? So if you ever run out of those aha moments, you know, you're you're not continuing to grow. And so I'm sure a lot of the higher I'm sure a lot of the um higher skilled leaders are continuously having those aha moments, like you said.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Maxwell has a a a great way to he's so good at at making stuff easy to remember. Uh he's got a great saying. He says, you know, when you've made your last leadership climb, you're old. And it doesn't matter whether you're 80 or you're 40, when you've made that last climb, when you've had that last aha, when you've when you've made that last push to to become better, uh, then you're old. And I I first time I heard him say that, I was there was an aha for me. And I was just like, okay, yeah, let's let's roll with this.
SPEAKER_01This sounds very engineering of you.
SPEAKER_05Problem solving. I need to I need to go back and let the good folks at UMR know. You know, the funny thing is, um while while I did not graduate with an engineering degree, I teach leadership to a lot of engineering organizations. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's funny. That is true. Uh I remembered something I wanted to go back to on the self-leading. Can you just to add some flavor to it, can you give an example of what that means? Because my brain can go a lot of different directions with that. Like what growth is it mainly pushing yourself into more growth as self-leading, or is it Yeah, it really is.
SPEAKER_05And you know, I I keep referring to, and I do this often, keep referring to different books that Maxwell's written. There's a there's a great book that he wrote on personal growth and development. It's the 15 uh invaluable laws of personal growth. Okay. And of growth. 15 invaluable laws of growth. And uh the very first chapter in that book talks about growth being intentional. And too often uh leaders think that because they have turned another page on the calendar that they have grown and developed. And that's just not that's not the case. Um you have to become responsible for your own growth and development the moment that your formal education ends. And I don't care whether that's a a PhD, a master's, a bachelor's, a high school diploma, or fourth grade education. Uh, up until that point, you've had teachers and professors uh telling you, read this, do this, you know, experience this.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_05And so when all of that formal structure around your growth and development goes away, then you have to become intentional about growth because it doesn't just happen. Uh so it's that, it's that I've got to make sure that every day I'm spending a little bit of time learning something new, uh growing in some way. Uh, find a mentor who you can talk with on a regular basis, pick up a leadership book, and it doesn't have to be a Maxwell book. I've learned so much from a number of different other uh leadership authors. Uh it's funny. I when I was graduating with my undergraduate degree, my advisor uh placed uh Stephen Covey's Seven Habits of Highly Effective People in my hands and said, You need to read this. This is gonna be important for you as you continue in your professional career. And uh and I read the book and it absolutely changed my life. And it it's funny, uh for months, maybe even years after I read that book, anytime someone came to me with a problem they were dealing with, I would say, Well, you know, there's a habit that fixes that. And and and it got to the point where people who know me well said, Yes, Jeff, we know you've read the seven habits of highly effective people. But it was such a a game changer for me. And and so you can pick up, you can grow and develop by reading those books. And I was very fortunate to have that person, that that advisor place that book in my hands. I mean, I I think back on that moment when she placed that book in my hands, and I wish I could just go back and give her a huge hug and say thank you for for changing my life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00I think it's uh it's it's in the the people piece of it is what's important. Now I'm a I'm a high eye on the disc profile, obviously, and I'm a communicator and a woo. So people are obviously resonate with me, but that reson but having a person in your life or having people in your life that can help you through that is very important for me personally, and I think it is for a lot of others because you know, we talk a lot about these aha moments, and I've had several of those aha moments. You mentioned a person in your life that changed the trajectory of your life, and you mentioned the importance of having a mentor that you can consistently talk with and have uh have a sounding board, right? If you don't have that, if and when I say you, I'm talking to myself personally, if I don't have that, those aha moments almost, you know, they're great and it's energizing, then they go away. Yeah. So if you've got somebody in your life that can constantly help you check on those and help you discover more of those aha moments and continuously grind on them, um, then you're making some real development. And that's and and again, I'm speaking to people that operate like I do, uh, at least that's what's that's what's important to me. And some of the things that you've said have have already kind of like, yep, that's that makes sense. I can see why that mechanism works or what why that mechanism could be missing in a lot of instances.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, a hundred percent. And and we tell people all the time that if you're at the head of the class, find a new class. Because if you don't have somebody ahead of you, you don't have anybody to learn from. And so be grateful for those mentors in your life who are who have been down the road that you're traveling. Uh, they they've experienced a lot of failure along that road. They've learned from those failures along that road, and now they're willing to share that experience with you. Be grateful for those folks. Pull those folks in close, keep them part of your inner circle, uh, and and and express gratitude to them for what they do.
SPEAKER_00Keep that engagement live, right? Absolutely. Continuously engage those people. That's that's uh advice for myself, right?
SPEAKER_05I uh I uh I mentioned earlier the the time that I had spent with with Jim Talent. You know, when I took that job with with Jim, I I suddenly was responsible for a 22 county region in in southeast Missouri. I had a circle of influence in uh Cape Girardeau, the city. Uh then I had a circle of influence in in New Madrid because that's where I grew up. And and my wife is from Sykston. So we had a uh through her, I had a little bit of influence in that circle. But now suddenly I needed to have influence in 22 counties.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And I was very fortunate to have um Lloyd Smith was uh Joanne Emerson. She was the Congresswoman at the time. She he was her chief of staff and had been in Southeast Missouri and Missouri politics for for decades before I ever arrived on the scene. And so when I took the job with with Jim, Lloyd took me around and introduced me to the people that I was going to need to know uh and work with in order to be successful in my position. And he both literally and figuratively put his arm around me and said, This is Jeff. You can trust Jeff. And I'm I'm still convinced to this day that he gave me a level of influence with those folks that I never would have been able to develop in the entire four years that I worked for Jim. And and Lloyd gave it to me in an instant. And so uh getting back to the idea of expressing that gratitude, there are there are times even today, I mean, this is 20 years later, uh, I'll pick up the phone on a Sunday afternoon and I'll shoot him a quick text and say, you know, Lloyd, I I I want you to know how much I appreciate what you did for me back then, and I want you to know that I'm still uh teaching others some of the leadership lessons that you taught me uh all those years ago, just to express that gratitude. Because I think it's an important part of any kind of relationship you have with with your mentors. Be sure you remind them how grateful you are.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05That's super cool.
SPEAKER_01Uh what do you what is something that high performing teams do well consistently?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I tell you that if I had to choose just one thing that high performing teams do that that perhaps underperforming teams don't do, is that those high-performing teams recognize the strengths of their team members and they make sure that their team members spend as much time as possible working through their strengths. Uh the, you know, I'm sure you you guys have been told, I know I've been told millions of times throughout my life, you know, work on your weaknesses, work on your weaknesses. Uh you can do that. You can work on your weaknesses all day long, every day. And congratulations, your reward is mediocrity. You're you're never gonna be exceptional in an area where you're naturally weak. And, you know, we're not we're not talking about character weaknesses. We should always work on those. But what I'm talking about is talent and skill and ability. You know, the thing I I I could play golf all day long, every single day, and I'm never gonna be a professional golfer. I just don't have that ability, right? Figure out what your strengths are and work on those. Spend all your time. Let other people compensate for your areas of weakness. Surround yourself with people who have strengths in those areas. But if you work on your strengths, now you've got an opportunity to be exceptional. And the world doesn't pay for mediocrity. The world pays for exceptional. And so those really high performing teams, I think what separates them from the from the rest of the pack is that they have figured out what their strengths are as a team and as individual team members, and they are spending as much time as they can working in those strength areas.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think that's uh it's connecting a few things that you've said already to that right there. Well, first off, I don't know if that's a new way of thinking or what, but that has been new to me with just the last few years. Um, I have and I and I used to even do culture change initiatives in front of a classroom. And I and what I was going to tie this to is you mentioned that you find yourself working with engineering type firms and companies a lot, right? One thing I used to teach and preach over and over again, and I just never listened to it myself, I guess, is that, well, this industry attracts problem solvers. Uh, and so if you're a problem solver, the one thing that you're constantly looking for is a problem. Well, if you're talking about your own self-development, stop looking at the problems. Let's lean into what you're good at and let's apply that to, okay, let's let's use this to get better and further develop the things that energize me and the things that I am skilled at, right? And I don't know why that's that's been a new concept to me, but that was that's a recent aha moment for me, at least when I say recent, you know, the last few years, is I'm kind of like, you know, why why haven't we approached it? Why haven't when I say we, I guess I'm talking about me, myself, and I, why haven't I approached it that way before, right? Instead of constantly looking at what can I get better, what can I get better, what can I get better, what can I, what am I, what am I skilled at? And let's lean into that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. And and skill is a huge part of that. And another part of that is is personality. Uh, you know, in addition to the Maxwell certifications that we hold, I'm also affiliated with uh the Working Genius, uh, the table group who who has the Working Genius program. And it's a it's a personality, it's well, I I I almost hesitate to call it a personality program. It is personality, but it's more of a productivity tool than a personality tool. And it all centers around the idea that there are different types of work uh throughout the the start to completion of a project. There are different types of work that have to occur. And so it's and and just real quickly, the six different types of work are uh wonder. Somebody has to look at the world, look at the situation, and say, I wonder if there's a better way of doing things. Then comes invention, where the inventor answers that call and says, Well, let me come up with something, a better way to do this. Uh, then there's discernment, where the discerner looks at the invention the uh the inventor came up with and says, you know, is it the best that it can possibly be? Can we tweak it a little bit to make it better? That sort of thing. And then there is the galvanizer who, after the invention has been discerned, the galvanizer comes in and rallies the troop around this solution. Uh, then there is enablement, and those are the people who uh answer the call of a galvanizer and say, you know what, I want to help get this project up off the ground. I want to help get it started. And then there's tenacity, which is the folks who are high in tenacity, or the folks who say, you know what, while while the enablement folks may be really great at getting a project started, they may not necessarily be great at getting it finished. And the tenacity folks came in and come in and they say, you know what, we're gonna get this across the finish line. We're gonna make sure that we exceed expectations, that sort of thing. And so all of those different types of work personalities uh come together to create successful projects. And so when we get to this idea of recognizing your strengths, it's it's part your your talent, your ability. It's also part personality. What are the things that I enjoy working on? And and you know, you mentioned bring that fire. When you spend your time working on things that you enjoy, and most of the time the things that you enjoy are the things that you're good at, right? Um when you spend that time working on things that you enjoy, your energy level doesn't decrease. You actually increase your energy level because you're getting to do something that you love doing. Uh, it's those instances, and we talked a little bit about, you know, kind of getting the right people in the right seats on the bus when it comes to to talent and skill. We need to do the same thing work when it comes to personality. Because if we you know, if I'm a person who is is energized by discernment or wonder, and you're asking me to to fulfill a tenacity role, uh, I'm gonna get burned out by that, right? And and I'm not gonna give you the best product as a result of that. So it's really it's it's a holistic approach. It's it's taking the the skill and the talent and the personality and the things that bring people joy and and kind of putting all that stuff together and making sure you've got those people in the right seats on the bus. And that's when you become those highly performing tables.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So on a on a micro scale, I did a brief crash course with Jeff on what he's talking about right now. And the the organization that we were part of, it was interesting because we were divided into tables based on those personality profiles. And we had each, we tried to, they tried to divide the group up into as many as as a diverse team as we could at each small table. And we had a tiny little project that we had to work on. How much, you know, anytime I think back on when I'm put into scenarios like that without that organization and without that taught that thought process going into it, how frustrating those types of events can be. Uh, whereas this one, it wasn't the case because we were all we were all kind of fed that, okay, these you're divided into your personality types and your skill sets and what energizes you. Therefore, take a role in your project that feeds into that. And so now everybody, we can divide up the tasks that need to be completed on our project based on that. How much quicker we were able to jump in, get started, and produce something without frustration and burnout. Uh, it, it, it works. So, you know, scale that up to an organization. I guess, you know, kind of what you're saying is the organizations that build their teams and assign their projects, uh, promote their individuals with that in mind, are the organizations that are that are doing well.
SPEAKER_05When you do when you do this, uh, you avoid two things that are that are detrimental to uh success. Uh you avoid guilt and judgment. Um a lot of times we get placed, we we get asked to do things that are outside of our the things that bring us joy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And we typically don't do those things very well. And so we suddenly begin to feel guilty about the fact that we can't do whatever it is we've been asked to do. We're not we're not really doing it to the to the standards and expectations that we hold for ourselves. Well, a part of that is because you don't get any joy out of doing it. Yeah. And so you're not gonna develop the skills to be able to do that. And so when we when we get those people in the right seats, we avoid some of that guilt that occurs. The the flip side of that coin, uh, the guilt coin is judgment. And a lot of times when as if I'm an outsider looking in and I see somebody underperforming in a specific area, I may judge them and say, well, they're just not trying hard enough, or or that's uh but what I don't understand is that I've got that person working outside of their strength area. Right. And and so they're not getting any joy from that, they're not giving you the greatest product that you're you can get, and so I'm on the outside looking in, judging. And so when you get those those people in the right seats on the bus, you can get rid of that guilt and get rid of that judgment. And and those again are two things that are absolutely detrimental to success.
SPEAKER_01Mm hmm. So, quick note, I guess, for context the book, this book is called The Six Types of Working Genius by Patrick Lencioni. Uh I was just actually talking about this with another guest uh on an episode. I haven't read it so. So I made sure I was adding it to my Goodreads list.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, Pat's got some good material out there. And yeah, I love the way that he he writes. The first half of his books typically are kind of parables, stories about a situation within an organization. And then the back half is where he teaches the principles. And uh it's just a I I love that writing style.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. So how do you, you know, taking that into consideration, it is very important to make sure that your team is diverse with different strengths. You don't want everybody to be the same, you don't want everybody to have the same mindset and personality, even though it may feel good at the time. There'll come times when you're probably all butting heads and it's just not going well. So how do you take like a historical structure and status quo of a position and then transform it into being diverse and leading into people's strengths when some positions historically have to do certain assigned duties and things like that? Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_05It takes a couple of things. Uh the first is intentionality. Uh you have to be intentional as a leader about getting your people into the right seats on the bus, uh, recognizing their strengths and how they can help the organization. Uh the second piece of this is commitment. Uh once you make those decisions, you have to be willing to stick to those decisions. Uh if you have those two things, you're most of the way there. Uh, it's also important to understand that as much as we would love to have everyone working on only the things that bring them joy and fulfillment and only the things that they are skilled at, uh, there are all there are other duties within any organization, other tasks within any organization that still need to get done. And so while it would be great to spend 100% of our time on those things that that bring us that joy, fulfillment, the things that we're skilled at, uh it's unrealistic. And so everybody's gonna have to spend some time doing things that they don't enjoy doing, they're not naturally gifted at. Uh, but the really good leaders try to minimize the amount of time that employees spend doing those things. Yeah. They they understand that they're still gonna have to do some of it, but if I can create a world for that employee where they're spending 70% of their time working on things that they are good at, things that bring them joy and fulfillment, and only 30% of their time on things that drain them uh that they're not good at, that's a lot better than if it's reversed, right? And so it's it's not about trying to create a perfect situation, it's about trying to create the best situation that we can that we can create with our people.
SPEAKER_01So, what kind of advice do you give to people to make it through their 30% of draining activities? Yeah. Because typically when the drains you, you you procrastinate on it and put it off. So how do you how do you battle that?
SPEAKER_05I I a lot of times, and and I'll speak for myself, what I because I have to do the same thing. I mean, there are certain tasks and and responsibilities that I just dread and I I don't want to do them, and I procrastinate and that sort of thing. Um what I typically try to do myself and what I encourage others to do is to, you know, there's a great saying, it's I think it's Brian Tracy, uh said, uh eat the frog. Uh if the if the worst thing you have to do all day long is eat a frog, eat it first thing in the morning because then you know the rest of your day you've already done the worst thing that you have to do all day long. Yep. And if you have to eat two frogs, eat the ugliest one first. And it's just that it's that idea that if I knock off the things that I don't want to do, then I it because I can spend and I know I do this, and I'm sure other people do too. I can spend so much time and energy thinking about that thing that I don't want to do, that I'm procrastinating on. And if I just knocked it out and got it done, it I would spend less time thinking about it than than by procrastinating.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And so it it really gets back to that eat the frog. If you got something that you just have to do that you really dread doing, just get it over with. You know, do it as quickly as you can. Do a good do your best, uh, but but eat that frog, get it over with so that you can then focus on the things that you really that give you that joy and fulfillment.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Do you think that um that what we're what we think is a shift in focusing on strengths rather than weaknesses is actually a newer topic, or do you think it's uh we've just been surrounded in this like engineering style world where it's problem solving and you're searching for things that aren't working?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I think it's a problem that has existed uh throughout uh human history. Uh I I don't think it's a new problem. What I think has changed is that the employees, the newer, younger workforce that's coming into uh the workforce, the they are more focused on it than perhaps previous generations have been. And so as leaders, we have to be more focused on it. Um you know, as as these each generation that comes along, uh Tim Elmore is another leadership author, uh, wrote a book. Oh, I'm trying to think of the title. It'll come to me. Um, but it it talks about different uh generations uh and how each generation that comes into the workforce uh has higher expectations of leaders than the generation that came in before. And so I think a new kind of diversity is the name of the book. Okay. Um, but it's it's it's about this idea that each generation they come in, they have higher expectations. And so this is one of the things that this idea of of, you know, it used to be back when I started in the workforce, you know, back when Moses was in high school, um, I came into a job and and and I just thought, you know what, my job is to do whatever my boss tells me to do. And that's it. And and these newer generations that have come along since me, uh, they have higher expectations. And so if we're going to lead them effectively and help them grow and develop into leaders themselves, uh, we have to be willing to meet them where they're at. Um Maxwell tells a wonderful story. He was he was good friends with uh Pat Summit, who was the coach of the University of Tennessee Lady Volunteers Basketball. Uh I one of the, I mean, she has to be on the Mount Rushmore of college basketball coaches, in my opinion. Um, but he was good friends with with Coach Summit, and she invited him to attend a game. And so he sits behind the bench during the first half of the game, and at halftime, uh, she turns around to him and she says, John, I want you to go into the locker room. I've got to huddle with my coaches for a moment. I want you to go in the locker room. I'm gonna come in, we'll do our halftime thing, and then we'll come back out for the second half. So John goes into the locker room, and the the players are seated in folding chairs and they're facing a whiteboard up on the uh in front of them at the front of the room. And so one of the players jumps up and and grabs a marker and and draws a vertical line down the center of the whiteboard. And on one side she writes, uh, what did we do well? And on the other side she writes, what do we need to change? And so she turns around to her teammates and they start saying, Well, I think we did this well, or I think we need to change this. So she's writing all this stuff down on the on the whiteboard. Coach Summit comes in and she kind of looks at the board and she, you know, she circles this and underlines this and crosses this out, puts a star by this. She turns around, she gives her team their instructions for the second half. Well, John is at dinner later on that night with Coach Summit and said, you know, that was a really interesting experiment that you guys did at halftime. Is that something you started doing early in your coaching career? Is it something you started doing, you know, recently? And she said, You know, John, I I've I've learned early on in my coaching career that I needed to meet my players where they're at. I needed to coach my players where they're at. I needed to understand what they think they did well. I need to understand what they think they need to change in order for me to effectively coach them. Because I could walk into that locker room and say, you did this well, you did that well, you need to change this. And it may go right over their heads. But if I can figure out what they think and how they feel, I can coach them where they're at. And I think that's a wonderful approach to to coaching people. Uh, and and it's one of those things when you when you take that that model and you apply it to these these newer generations that are coming into the workforce with those higher expectations, we've got to meet them where they're at if we want to coach them and and help them grow and develop.
SPEAKER_00That's uh, you know, we talk a lot about um organizations and leaders that excel in today's environment. And a lot of times what or at least an element of it that it boils down to is how dynamic you can be.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um we're moving faster and faster as more and more information becomes readily available. Now AI is a piece of that as well, that makes you know, reacting to that or having that information in front of you just that much quicker and and accessible. Um, you're talking about now you have to be dynamic with these higher expectations of every generation that comes into your workforce. So the organizations and the leaders that recognize that and are able to play into those dynamics and and be dynamic are the ones that are succeeding and and excelling. And that that seems to be the theme of that's kind of, I mean, it's not a magic bullet because there's so many things involved. That's you know, you can't just tell somebody that and then, oh, okay, yeah, we can do that. That's easy. Uh but it's ever evolving and um it takes a lot of energy, a lot of effort, and I don't know where does it I don't know if it ever stops, but uh that's that's that seems to be a recurring theme lately.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I I saw a great presentation about two years ago. Um and and the presenter uh basically the premise of of the presentation was that throughout human history there have been periods of time where we as a species have made incredible leaps. Um and and he gave an example, he sh he he put two slides up or two pictures up next to each other on the on the screen, and they were the same street in New York City. One was, I believe it was 1903 and the other was 1913, so 10 years apart. And in the 1903 picture, the street is crowded with horse-drawn carriages and there's one automobile. And in the 1913 picture, it's the exact opposite. The street is crowded with automobiles and there's one horse-drawn carriage. And so the idea is that back during that time period, we had this incredible leap. We had automobiles, we had television, we had home ownership, uh, you know, just all these incredible advances in this very short period of time. And it's only happened that way, like I'm wanting to say it was like maybe four times throughout recorded human history where you had these periods where you just had explosive growth. And the the the whole idea behind the presentation was that we're in the middle of one right now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And so as leaders, if we're not if we're not nimble, uh, we're gonna fall behind. We we've got to be willing to adapt and and be quick to adapt. Because right now, I mean, we all feel it. It's uh technology is coming at us faster and faster and faster. And younger generations who are coming up, this is their normal. And so if we want to be effective leaders, uh, then we've got to meet them where they're at, and we've got to be nimble in in how we how we approach leadership.
SPEAKER_01Do you it kind of brings up a interesting question is what's something that leaders do unintentionally that are harming their teams?
SPEAKER_05I'm curious if it's in that similar realm or you know, I tell you, the thing that I think that that leaders do unintentionally that harms their team is that they don't take time to evaluate their experiences. Um, you know, uh everybody's always heard, you know, experience is the best teacher. Experience is not the best teacher. Evaluated experience is the best teacher. Uh we have things happen to us all all day long, every day, that if we don't take time to sit down and reflect on those things, uh, a lot of times there are incredible lessons that can be learned through those experiences that are lost to time because we don't sit down and evaluate those experiences. And so I think the thing that that probably holds leaders back that they do unintentionally, is that they don't take time at the end of the day, at the end of the week, to sit down and just say, you know what, who did I talk to today? And what did I learn from them? Uh what did I experience today, and what did I learn from that? And what do I need to change? And how do I need to grow as a result of that? And so I think that if there's one thing that that unintentionally holds us back, it's that we're not intentional about reflecting on and evaluating the experiences that we have every single day. There are so many life lessons that that are taught to us every single day that too often people just miss because they don't take time to reflect on what what what that exchange, you know, if I had a if I had a bad exchange with an employee, what uh what did that mean? Why why did that occur? How how can I change that? You know, if I had a if I had a great experience with a client, how do I make sure I replicate that experience for other clients, right? What what can I learn from that? What can I gain from that? And it and it takes that intentionality of sitting down and saying, you know what, I'm not just gonna experience life. I'm gonna learn from life. I want to reflect on it.
SPEAKER_01Makes a whole lot of sense. I think you easily get caught up in the rat race and filling up your schedule. And especially if you're in a period of your life where you have young kids and stuff, it just doesn't stop. So you got to do that. Well, that's the hardest time. You really have to calendar reflection time, I guess.
SPEAKER_05It's funny you say that because I have an alarm that goes off on my phone every single day at 4 45 p.m. and it says, What did you learn today? Okay. So it it goes off everywhere. Even on Saturday and Sunday, it goes off. Yeah. And and if nothing else, it requires me for just a moment to think, wait, what did I learn today? And it's a helpful tool for me. Yeah. Yeah. Calendaring is uh because if it's not on your calendar, it it doesn't exist.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Uh what types what advice would you give people that are in middle management roles that are, you know, I think oftentimes that can be a tough spot because you're you're leading people but still being led and you're kind of reporting in all these crazy directions all at once, it can seem like.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. It's to it's to establish a relationship with the people you lead that positions you as an authority for them. Uh I see it all the time in organizations, uh, especially with people who are new to leadership. A lot of times when people are new to leadership, they've been promoted into a leadership position uh from amongst their friends, right? And so it can be difficult to lead and to, especially when you're you have to do something that's not popular and and that sort of thing. And and it's establishing that relationship of trust, building that foundation of trust with the people that you lead so that you're recognized as a leadership authority. A lot of times what I see is, especially with young leaders, if there's an unpopular decision that the leader has to has to convey to the team, uh, they'll say, Well, you know, don't blame me. This came from higher up. Well, you're not really establishing yourself as a leader when you do that. And and so you want to develop a relationship with your team such that when you have to communicate that that thing that's not popular with the team, the team trusts you enough as a leader to say, okay, we don't like this, but our leader says that this needs to occur, and so we're gonna do this, right? And so how do you develop that trust? It's time. It's it's spending time with them, uh, understanding them, you know, getting back to to the coach summon analogy from before. It's it's really meeting them where they're at and and understanding their needs, their desires, uh, what they want out of out of work, what they want out of life, and and and helping them realizing you can't always give them what they want, but you're always willing to try, always willing to listen and and that you value their input. Um I think that for especially for for new leaders and those kind of those middle leaders, uh, it's making sure your team understands that even though there may be something that that is unpopular, uh, you value their input, you recognize that they're a valuable part of the team, you want them to grow and develop, uh, you want them to trust you and you trust them, but sometimes you just have to do things that that are unpopular. And and if you can develop that level of trust uh with the people you lead, then you don't have to rely on the, you know, this didn't come from me, this came from higher up kind of situation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That's great advice because it can feel, I think for a lot of people coming into that role initially, it can feel like a crazy whirlwind.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's there's there's this tug. You you've a lot of times people who are promoted in those positions spent years as a peer to those folks. And and so there's this natural emotional connection to the people you've worked with for years. You don't want to disappoint them, you don't want to let them down, you don't want to anger them, that sort of thing. But when you're in a position of leadership, sometimes you have to do unpopular things. Uh, the other thing that I would encourage, uh, especially folks who are new to leadership and some of those middle positions within leadership, is to remember this. Helping people is much more important than making them happy. If you can help people grow, develop, succeed, that's a lot more important than making people happy. That's good. I borrowed it. I still I stole that. You paying for that one?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's that's not that didn't come out of my head. That's somebody else. Well, it's kind of like the it's kind of like what you try to teach your kids is you can either uh it's similar to instant gratification versus delayed because you know making somebody happy in the moment is can be instant gratification, but you know, helping them could feel bad in the moment, but you could have situations like like several that you've brought up throughout this podcast is uh weeks, months, years later, people could come back to you and say, hey, this was I'm reflected, and this is a very pivotal moment for me. And you know, I think it helped me, and that's delayed gratification and like do what's right.
SPEAKER_05There's trade-offs, especially as a leader. There are always gonna be trade-offs. And some trade-offs are worth making, some trade-offs are not. It's up to the individual leader to figure out the the the right answer there. But everything you do is gonna have a trade-off associated with it. And and so every morning as a leader, uh, you get to wake up and you get to do two things during the course of the day. You get to make somebody happy and you get to make somebody mad. Yeah. And just understanding that is a is a big part and and understanding, especially for new leaders, that it's not just happening to you. That that's true of all leaders. And and a lot of times when we, especially as new leaders, we experience something, we think, well, this is just happening to me. No, this is this is happening to leaders every in every organization, in every country in the world. And so it's just understanding that this is part of leadership. That you know, this is this is the price. You know, a lot of people when they when they think about getting into leadership positions, they think about the perks, uh, they don't think about the price. And so it's just it's understanding that this is a price of leadership. Sometimes you're sometimes people aren't gonna aren't gonna like the decisions you make. Uh, but if you as a leader have have evaluated alternatives and figured out what the best alternative is for the team moving forward, even if it's not the popular one, it's the right one, then you as a leader should be able to lie your head down on the pillow at night and get a good night's sleep.
SPEAKER_01Yep. What do you think uh propels successful organizations in the next five to ten years?
SPEAKER_05Uh you know what? Uh Jeff Henderson, uh, another leadership author, uh wrote a book for FOR. Uh comes from the Chick-fil-A uh world. Uh just a great book. It's a short, quick read. I recommend everybody take a look at it. And I really think it speaks to the question what's going to separate those organizations that are successful in the next five to ten years? And and the whole idea behind the book is that successful organizations close the gap between what they want to be known. For and what they are known for. And so it's this idea that if we want to be known for this, but we are known for some other thing, how do we close that gap? What are the things that we need to be doing as an organization to close that gap? And so when you think about the next five to 10 years, those organizations that are going to separate themselves and and exceed expectations over the competition are the organizations that are hyper focused on closing that gap between what we want to be known for and what we are known for. And I I I think it's really as simple as that. I think it's just making sure as an organization we're doing things every single day to close that gap. Because there's always going to be a gap, right? Because if there's not a gap, then you're not setting your expectations high enough. Right. You should always want to be known superior to what you are now, some some gap. And but but just staying hyper-focused on what that gap is and making sure that it translates into your daily activities. You know, we do a lot of work with strategic planning. The difference between a successful strategic plan and an unsuccessful strategic plan uh is in the implementation. Uh it's one thing to call all the stakeholders together and get around a table and figure out, okay, here's our goals and objectives for the next three years. And you know, it's funny, back uh years ago, the strategic planning field that you created 10-year plans, and then you created seven-year plans, and then you created five-year plans, then three-year plans. And honestly, you know, anymore, we're telling a lot of the folks we're looking at working with, you know, you're you're really looking at a two-year plan.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Um, and it gets back to that, you know, we're in the middle of this explosive growth era. You know, if anybody thinks they can predict what's going to happen five years from now, I'd encourage you to go back five years and see if you would have been able to predict where we are today. Yeah, too. And and think about back even before then, the COVID era. I mean, uh, you know, we're we're six years removed, I guess five or six years removed from that now. But this idea that we can accurately predict the future, um, it's it's difficult and increasingly difficult the faster the future comes at us. And so those strategic plans need to be shorter and shorter. But the difference between a successful strategic plan and an unsuccessful strategic plan is that implementation. So we we get together, we sit around the table, we talk about our goals and objectives, but if we don't come up with action plans as part of that process and and daily activities that we can do to live into that strategic plan, then it's not going to be a successful strategic plan. And so it's really making sure you're doing things every single day that that getting back to the four analogy and and closing that gap between what we want to be known for and what we are known for. It's figuring out what what can we as an organization do every day to to chip away at that gap, to to close that gap. That's good. That's good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we're doing a lot of that. We're in the middle of a lot of that right now. So I know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Uh trying to implement. I mean, for sure, implementation can be difficult, especially for me with my personality and and I guess what I naturally gravitate towards. I love the conversation about what could we do and all that. And then it comes to implementation, which we understand is important, but you don't always if you live in that other world, you don't always know how to best implement, if that makes sense. And it's it's uh I guess it kind of speaks to a lot of what we've talked about, but yeah, it makes perfect sense.
SPEAKER_05And you know, going back to that working genius model, I I am a discerner uh and a wanderer. And so I live and breathe in those higher elevations of conversation. When you get down to where the rubber meets the road, where the asphalt meets the road. Yeah, there you go. Uh when you get down to that part, the tenacity part of it, that's just not what I'm gifted at. I don't get joy from it. I don't get fulfillment from it. And so the key is making sure you've got folks who do get joy and fulfillment working on those things. So it's not, it's it's not just identifying what needs to be done, it's also identifying who needs to do it.
SPEAKER_01For sure. It's a big part of it. Yeah. You can ask my wife. If you walk through my house, all my remodeling projects are 80% done.
SPEAKER_05We uh we it's funny. Uh several years ago, in fact, I think it was while I was working here at Delta. Uh, you know, my my grandfather was a carpenter by trade, and so he passed those skills down to his sons and and my dad passed those skills down to me and my brothers. And so uh it's funny, I I was working, we decided we were gonna finish an unfinished basement in our house. And I got to be about six months into a three-week project when I realized that it's fun when I got to do it when I wanted to do it. It's not fun when I've been working all day, and now I got to come home and go down into the basement for four hours and work on a project. So that's that that I think that might have been the first time I I came to reality, uh, came to grips with the reality that I'm not a tenacity person.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's funny. Okay, so what we do on the podcast is the guest, the last guest, leaves a question for the next guest. Oh so the question left for you is um describe or tell us about a flop that you had and what you learned from it.
SPEAKER_05A flop that I had and what I learned from it. Man. Oh, wow. I've had so many flops. It's it's hard to figure out. Pick the easiest one to describe. You know, we uh when I when I first started the company years ago, um I really thought that we would be able to to go out and teach leadership to people and that they would just gravitate toward it. They would, they would have, they would all experience the aha moments and and and uh everyone would would sing our praises and and and go back to work and never forget the impact that I had on their lives. And there was a a workshop one time where I was I was talking about something and I was up in Colombia, and I spent I I bet I was an hour and a half in. And I asked if there were any questions, and this guy in the back of the room, and it was a big group, there were like 125 people in the group. Guy in the back of the room raises his hand and he looks at me and he says, You know that thing you said just now? I wish you would have said that in the very beginning, because you talked a whole lot, and and I didn't get anything out of that. But that thing that you said like 30 seconds ago was gold. And I walked away from that thinking, oh my gosh, what did I what have I done? And and I could have, and I was frustrated, you know, I was like, man, I can't believe that guy called me out in the middle of, you know, in front of all these people, and I was a little embarrassed, you know. And and on the drive home from Columbia, I was I couldn't get over the fact that I was angry, you know. I was just like, I was like, man, I would what's that guy doing in my class? You know, how did I and then I I finally started thinking, you know what, there's a lesson to be learned in this. And so what is that lesson? And so I spent it took me from Columbia to around Wentzville to be mad at the guy. And then from Wentzville down to Cape, I started thinking about what I could do to be better. And so it dawned on me that anytime I'm presenting, I've got to be better at getting to the gold nuggets quicker. Yep. Instead of because I mean, you guys have experienced it. I don't know how long have we been in here, an hour or so. You've extra I I like to I like to talk, I like to tell stories, you know. And sometimes you just gotta get to the point, you know. And so it was really, it really came down to the valuable lesson. Don't use 50 words when five will do. And so that was a lesson I learned, and that was a a big flop because I just I was so embarrassed. In fact, I I I couldn't see myself on stage, but I imagine I I turned beat red. Yeah. You know, you you know when you feel that flush, you know, that that heat comes into your face and that sort of thing. But yeah, I I still uh just like that uh that professor that gave me the uh the the advisor that gave me the the uh Stephen Covey book. Uh if I could go back to that guy who asked that question, I wouldn't be mad at him. I'd give him a big hug and say, Man, I'm better, I'm a better presenter now because you asked because you you embarrassed me in front of 125 people.
SPEAKER_01That's a great lesson in several ways because you really I mean, I think you talked about this earlier to uh a little bit, but you have to take those moments and reflect on them and turn them into something productive. Yeah. Right? Like you could have stewed on that your entire drive and then forgotten about it. But I'm a little embarrassed that it took me an hour stewing to go. Nobody knew how far that was.
SPEAKER_05It was a solid hour. And I'm pretty sure the traffic around me didn't appreciate my fuming. I may have become a little aggressive in my driving.
SPEAKER_01That's great. Well, this has been good. Thanks, Jeff.
SPEAKER_05I appreciate you guys having me on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. If y'all enjoyed the episode, please rate our show and leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, and check out Delta on all social media platforms at Delta Companies, and our website at Delta COS looks like deltacos.com. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week.
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