Finding certainty in uncertainty in manufacturing in North America

In this episode of People B4 Machines, Amanda Cupido speaks with Kevin Bowers, Vice President of Research at the Association for Manufacturing Technology, about navigating uncertainty in North American manufacturing. Kevin shares insights on building resiliency through automation, AI, and workforce enablement, while addressing the challenges of technical debt and reshoring. They discuss the importance of a top-down cultural shift, connecting equipment to the cloud, and leveraging disruptions as opportunities for growth. Tune in for actionable strategies to future-proof manufacturing operations and embrace innovation in uncertain times. 

For more bold questions and sharp insights, visit www.peopleb4machines.com. Remember, the future isn’t fully automated—it’s people-powered.

Transcript

Kevin Bowers 0:00

There has to be a a mind shift change from the top down. And that's tough because it's kind of saying that we've done it wrong so far. We gotta do something right. But if you wanna survive and you know wanna grow the business for the benefit of all your employees, you gotta make that shift.

Speaker 2 0:21

Conversations on the chaos of factory automation from Monday morning to the very near future.

Speaker 1 0:26

Eddie Clips Podcast.

Amanda Cupido 0:28

Welcome to People B4 Machines, conversations on the chaos of factory automation from Monday morning to the very near future. I'm Amanda Cupido, a speaker, author, and entrepreneur with a passion for the intersection of technology and humanity. Today we're discussing finding certainty in uncertainty when it comes to manufacturing in North America. And I know you can't see me, but I'm doing air quotes around certainty there. We will get into all of that with my guest, Kevin Bowers. He is the Association for Manufacturing Technologies vice president of research and has more than 25 years of experience in manufacturing across sales, operations, training, and support. Previously, Kevin led research for industrial equipment and field services at TSIA, Technology and Services Industry Association. There, he focused on benchmarking, advisory, and consulting to improve business outcomes for members. Now I'm excited to speak to him today, especially because he brings a unique blend of technical expertise and experience in actionable research. And fun fact before we get to meet Kevin, I have to just say he graduated from the University of Illinois with a degree in Japanese and spent several years living and working in Japan. So, Kevin, welcome. Or should I say, Yokoso? Yokoso. Did I get it right?

Kevin Bowers 1:53

Very good. Yes, you you nailed it. Good job. So thank you very much for having me today.

Amanda Cupido 1:58

It's great to have you here. So as I teed up, we're talking about certainty in modern manufacturing, which I feel like is an oxymoron, but it is something I do think that executives cling to even if they don't want to admit it. So what do you think is the cost of that kind of mindset on a long-term strategy?

Kevin Bowers 2:16

Well, I mean, everyone loves certainty in any business manufacturers, maybe more so in current climate, but it's it's a fairly legacy mindset. You can't, if you can find it, good luck. But, you know, here at AMD, the Association for Manufacturing Technology, we recently published what we called our our manufacturing uh mandate. And part of the things we talked about there is, you know, we do support policy certainty for for sure, tax, trade, and regulatory for as a foundation for you know investment and things that help manufacturing move forward. But you know, it's not really there yet. You hear things in the news all the time. But, you know, operationally, certainty is an illusion, right? You need resiliency and agility and all those types of things. But you're never going to eliminate it. But if you understand it and plan for it, you you can get through it. So do we want it? Yes. Do we have it? No. So the key is understanding that fact and planning accordingly.

Amanda Cupido 3:12

All right. You mentioned resiliency in there. And I know recently there's obviously been a lot of global disruptors, pandemic, geopolitical shifts, inflation, you name it. So curious if you've seen any anecdotes, um, either from the factory floor or in the C-suite that really exemplified this resiliency that you that you refer to.

Kevin Bowers 3:32

Well, so I uh I read this uh this phrase in a social media post on LinkedIn recently, but I really liked it. And it was like perfect timing for our talk today. But it's resiliency is not bouncing back, it's adapting forward. I tried to find out who originally said that, but that that was a rabbit hole. But I I did really like it, right? And you know, on the factory floor, resiliency needs to be driven by tech-enabled workforce, right? Automation must be central to this transformation. You know, robotics can help with uh consistency and resiliency and performance. So the factory floor, we need to enable our workers, the frontline workers, with tech and automation. But then the C-suite, they need to lead not only by making the money available, you know, the financial planning for that, but they also have to lead top down with this digital strategy. It can't just be here's the money, you guys figure it out. It has to be we want to do this. So you have they have to put their stake in the ground about the digital strategy as well as communicate that, give the money to enable that, and as well as uhline incentives to make the frontline workers and the factory floor incentivized to do so. So, you know, things like digital twins, AI, autonomous systems will help do this, right? But it has this automation and this uh enablement of the frontline worker has to be core to the resiliency, I think.

Amanda Cupido 4:52

Okay, so let's talk a little bit more about those industry 4.0 technologies. So we're referring to AI, cloud computing, big data. Um, do you think they're being underutilized right now?

Kevin Bowers 5:03

I would say yes, both from my experience, you know, 20 years in manufacturing technology suppliers where we tried to get our factories to do these things. And you know, the so the tools have existed for a long time. I know AI is at the peak of the hype cycle now, but you know, in manufacturing, we've had a lot of data and we've been using AI to do predictive maintenance for a long time. You know, has it been widely utilized? No, but it's been there for a long time, right? So we have a bit of technical debt. You know, machines last for a long time, right? So there's some outdated disconnected machines. So that is somewhat of a barrier to widespread implementation of automation. But I think you know, we're finding ways every day to get around that. But I think one issue is the majority of manufacturers are small and medium enterprises. There's like, I think 80, 85 percent of manufacturers are these small type companies. So we need to enable them with the right tax incentives and funding to help them do some of this, right? And also they need to have a kind of a change mindset, right? If you automate a broken process, you're just gonna do a bad thing more bad, right? So they have to be a bit flexible uh in adopting this and being willing to adopt best practices to move forward. So underutilized, yes, getting easier to utilize better. And I think we should take advantage of this AI hype cycle. Now, if you say AI, you magically money appears and you get the ability to try some of these proofs of concepts. So you should do it, right? I mean, have goals and good use cases in mind, but take advantage of it while you can.

Amanda Cupido 6:40

Yeah, and you mentioned technical debt. So maybe dig into that a bit more. How can people balance this experimentation phase with also taking to into account that technical debt?

Kevin Bowers 6:52

Well, that is a good question. So, you know, recently with a lot of the the uh tax cuts and things that were passed, there's uh incentives to invest more and you can depreciate, and there's RD expense write-offs. So there's a a bit of a buffer there for you to invest in a few provo concepts to make sure they work while you're doing your core job in that money keeping the lights on and allow you to invest a little bit. But there's I think no shortage of manufacturing technology suppliers that would be willing to help, right? They they get to see what good looks like across all sorts of these small and medium enterprises, so they can help you with best practices and good use cases. So engage with your suppliers and see what they've done and attend conferences, read things, you know. There's no shortages of webinars or podcasts to listen to while you're on your drive or you're out on a run, listen to some of these things, not just while you're you know behind the desk at work. But technology is increasing much faster than some of this technical debt is holding us back. So I think that there's a lot of ways to connect equipment and find ways around these problems. You just have to ask and be willing to do so.

Amanda Cupido 8:01

Yeah. And I think half of it is a mindset too. We could point to technical debt, but I fear sometimes it's just that going back to it being underutilized and it's being seen as a nice to have rather than foundational. And so how how would you suggest people approach changing their mindset or internally helping others change their mindset around that?

Kevin Bowers 8:21

Change management is an often talked about uh problem. And we talked about enabling these frontline workers, they have tons of ideas, but those things can only go so far. So if it's not top-down from the executive, the C-suite, the the CEO, the CFO, the COO, this isn't top-down and talked about all the time, it's it you're gonna have uh kind of a ceiling there as how far you can go. So you'll probably subop optimize in these little pockets within your company if it's not top-down. So we have to, you know, get the word out to the ones that hold the purse strings and make sure that they drive the communication and fund the right types of things, incentivize the people to do the right things, and then magically those strategic plans will work. So we need to make sure that you know the the frontline workers don't be quiet, don't just wait for the top-down approach to come. Push them, say, hey, this is what we need, this is what we need, and and keep uh beating the drum. You know, the squeaky wheel gets degreased sometimes. So, you know, we have to go at it both sides, but ultimately it will not work unless it comes top-down, I think.

Amanda Cupido 9:28

Yeah. And so talk about your role and what have you seen personally and what have you been championing?

Kevin Bowers 9:34

Aaron Powell You know, I lead research here at AMT, so our members have the opportunity uh to ask us lots of questions about, you know, market intelligence, emerging tech and trend, benchmarking, things of that nature. So we uh of late, you know, outside of tariffs and tax type questions, which are top of mind, there's lots of questions about um AI, how to use AI in their space, things about automation, you know, what are others doing, what type of things do you see? And, you know, a lot of it comes back to uh, you know, technology and connectivity. You know, I see a big struggle with some of our suppliers convincing manufacturers to connect equipment to the cloud. You know, there's a lot of uh hesitancy to do so, but when you think about other parts of your factory, HR, all that data probably lives in the cloud. So your personal, your income, your social security number, all these things are in the cloud, but yet we're a bit worried about maybe one part program from one machine that may get out, you know. And so our suppliers need to get better at being able to explain to the right people within organizations, IT wise, about the connectivity and all the different uh security measures in place. But once you get that fundamental connectivity done, all this data is going to help you make a whole bunch of very informed decisions and help with the automation. A lot of automation and AR are fed by data, right? So I think getting past this uh this connectivity huddle and then changing the mindset. But um really I think AI and automation are really uh questions that our members are asking about quite a bit. And also, I mean, I didn't mention, but you know, one of uh the big thing AMT does is we run the International Manufacturing Technology Show that's every two years in Chicago. Huge. You know, last September over 90,000 people converged for seven days, but the next one will be in September of 2026. But there's four pillars we're gonna talk about. There's AI, additive manufacturing, automation, and then traditional metal cutting. So the two of the four pillars are this idea of you know digital manufacturing and automation. So it's pretty critical to our membership base as well as the larger manufacturing community.

Amanda Cupido 11:40

Yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah. And and do you pick those four pillars based on what members are saying to you, or how'd you even come up with those?

Kevin Bowers 11:47

Members, as well as, you know, the beauty of IMTS, it's the two-sided marketplace, right? We have, you know, all of these manufacturers from large, you know, the large automotive defense and things to the small 10 or 15 person job shops. So they they come and they go and they visit different booths and they scan their badges, and we, you know, get to see all the different interests they have. So really they are the ones that help guide that, right? And obviously then our members decide, okay, what in our portfolio can we show at the show to implement that? But really, we take feedback from both sides of the market because ultimately we want to be able to enable the the larger manufacturing community to thrive and grow. So when they show up and go to booze and tell us what they like, we make sure that we align what we we show with that.

Amanda Cupido 12:33

And I'm just curious how much has changed since your last one last year. I mean, this seems to be such a pivotal two years, so much has happened. What are some of the shifts you've noticed between the last show and this upcoming one next year?

Kevin Bowers 12:47

Well, you know, I thought you you couldn't go anywhere and not hear about AI in last September, but even now it's even more so. Yeah. So AI forefront, and then, you know, when you think AI, you think, you know, automation on the software side, and then logically you start to think automation on the hardware side. So both of those things that are even coming more to the forefront. And then, you know, with all of the tariffs and things, there's this new push for reshoring and making more things here in at least the United States, where I'm based. So you you know, people are still talking about we've got to go and see what technology that what's the newest technology that we can get the biggest bang for our buck for and get the most output from. So it's a combination of that traditional machinery plus the automation, and then then this umbrella of AI and digital manufacturing software over overhead to put it all together.

Amanda Cupido 13:38

Aaron Powell Okay, let's dig in on reshoring because I wanted to bring that up. I mean, it's often sold as a path to greater certainty as we talk about finding certainty and uncertainty. But I do think there's pros and cons to that. So what do you think of that as a tactic to help with mitigating risk?

Kevin Bowers 13:53

Well, I mean, it's it's certainly much easier to drive 30 minutes down to your supplier to figure out why the casting's late as opposed to getting on a plane flying, you know, halfway across the world. So that is, you know, one benefit to it, right? And also I think that you know, cutting lead time, just the shipping lead time in then of self helps in some sort of certainty. Because you know, it gets on a truck, worst case, it's two-day drive anywhere in the United States, maybe three-day drive anywhere in the United States as far as trucking. So we've seen quite a bit of influx over the last you know few years of jobs coming back. There's all sorts of you know, people uh touting new investments in the United States. G Appliance said they're gonna spend how many billion on making more dishwashers and washing machines in the States, Apple's gonna build more things in the States, you know, all sorts of manufacturer bills. So when all this investment comes in, there's need for more uh infrastructure and more equipment, and then more people learn about the industry. So there's more draw getting people into the industry, and then you know, when some of this stuff is new in green field, it's easier to implement these newer technologies. So I think it's a nice flywheel effect, right? You know, will we ever make everything we need in the United States? Maybe not. But I think it's uh it's a good way to, you know, secure some resiliency, protect national security by getting some of this manufacturing coming back, right?

Amanda Cupido 15:15

Yeah, the boost of the local economy, it's it's always nice. I think the the flip side to that though is the higher labor costs and potentially shortage of skilled workers. So how do you approach that?

Kevin Bowers 15:31

Well, so one nice carve out in the the some of the tax breaks that were extended is you know the 529 plan, which is the the plan where you save for college, is traditionally always just for like a four-year institution. Now it can be used also with uh trade schools and apprenticeships. So that opens up the uh for you know parents and grandparents saving for their college for their kids or grandkids now that if someone wants to go to welding school or learn about machining, they can apply that money to that too. So that's helpful. So it's not a roadblock, right? So that's uh good news. And you know, there's still some of a stigma that a factory is probably a dirty, dark, dangerous place. But if you went into a factory where they're making medical equipment, it's probably cleaner than your house. So I think, you know, as we put all these newer factories and things, people will see that, man, this is really cool, interesting stuff. And when I was at a member company of AMT before I joined, we'd have uh open houses where students would come in. They were gung-ho, they were ready to go. This is cool. It's like a computer, a game, all that kind of stuff. But the roadblock was they went home and told their parents their parents like, no.

Amanda Cupido 16:42

No.

Kevin Bowers 16:43

So it's it's maybe not the the the youngest generation that's not interested. It's their parents thinks with the legacy mindset that it's uh dirty, dark, dangerous, you don't want to do that kind of stuff. But it's not that way, you know, and it's uh it's an interesting alternative than going to college and potentially coming out with some amount of debt. So I think there's a lot of upside. So we just need to partner with local schools and keep uh beating the drum again that manufacturing is interesting, it's safe, it's a great career path.

Amanda Cupido 17:15

Right. I didn't even think about that dynamic between students and parents. How interesting. Um All right, let's let's zoom out a bit. I know AMT is global. Do you find in general that North American manufacturers are too focused on control?

Kevin Bowers 17:29

That's an interesting question. So I w you know, for my, you know, uh before AMT, I worked for two Japanese headquartered companies, right? So very process-oriented controls, you know, Edward Deming and the Toyota Production. So they're they're pretty into control, I'd say, right? Uh in quality. So I would say, at least my experience in in Japan and you know, a little uh very into control. A little bit America, a little bit not as much, but then Europe always seemed to be pushing the edge of technology and going far. So sometimes because you're always pushing, it's a little bit harder to have the control, but you're willing to take that leap because you're on the bleeding edge. So I think the United States sits in the middle of it a little bit. But also, I was um reading a book about kind of the origins of machine tools in the United States, and they were talking about the fact that the the reason that manufacturing took off in the States is the U.S. government said that, you know, in all their orders for muskets right after the Civil War, they had to be interchangeable, and that was never done before. So American manufacturers figured out how to do that, and then when that got out at different world fairs, all sorts of other countries, you know, England and stuff are like, oh, that's the American manufacturing system. Repeatable, controllable, interchangeable, it's amazing. So, you know, we started that way. I think it would be nice if we got back to more of that way, but you know, 100% control, no. But you know, being agile and resilient and bouncing forward, I think will help us through any of these cyclical, whether it be natural disasters or, you know, geopolitical things or or whatever other man-made disruption that we have. Thinking resiliency will be better than you know, trying to choke hold of certainty out of everything.

Amanda Cupido 19:14

Right. And I I'm curious are your thoughts about the root causes of this uncertainty. Some of the things you mentioned are external forces, but there's also sometimes internal forces like siloed decision making, fragmented data. So if you were to compare external versus internal, what would you say the percentages, like what is actually driving uncertainty?

Kevin Bowers 19:39

That's a great question. It's easy to blame the external stuff because everyone knows about it. It's very difficult to blame the internal stuff because it's pointing, you know, what's that saying? When you point one finger out, there's like four pointing back at you.

Amanda Cupido 19:49

Back at you, yeah.

Kevin Bowers 19:50

Even if we didn't have those, all those things, we still have some challenges, right?

Amanda Cupido 19:55

Yeah.

Kevin Bowers 19:56

Data silos, you know, decision silos, um, outdated systems. Yeah. The old saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. That's a terrible mentality, right? If that was really true, we'd still have rotary phones, we wouldn't have smartphones, right? Again, change management starts top down, right? And any strategic plan has to have those four things, right? You gotta have the plan, you gotta communicate it, you gotta align incentives, and you gotta have the budget. So if people aren't really into it and like take the easy way out, well, I can't control tariffs, I can't control a hurricane that comes through, I can't control a war in Ukraine and they just do what they've always done. I mean, the status quo has risk in and of itself. So there has to be a mind shift change from the top down. And that's tough because it's kind of saying that we've done it wrong so far. We got to do something right. But if you want to survive and you know, want to grow the business for the benefit of all your employees, you've got to make that shift, right? You can't just do what you've always done.

Amanda Cupido 20:55

Yeah. Status quo is risky. I I like that. Um so if you were speaking directly to manufacturing leaders, what would you say to them? How can they use these sort of disruptions as catalysts?

Kevin Bowers 21:10

What is it? Nishki says from chaos comes order. Use these challenges as opportunities, right? We have some of the advantage of all these tax cuts. So there's a little bit freer ability to invest. So do it and try it. You don't have to change the world with inside your factory. You start small, get some incremental gains, show the benefits and and keep going. I think that innately humans want to grow, get better, enable them to do that, make some small gains, and you'll keep moving forward. Because like you said, it's a you know about the community. You know, if you keep doing the same thing and the factory shuts down, then that's not good for anyone. So, you know, thinking of a bit of the greater good of the community and you know, invest and grow and change, and there's no shortage of suppliers that have newer technology and experience for where it did go well that are willing to help, right? It's they're not it's not a thing. Oh, we always think that suppliers and manufacturers are at odds, right? Beat them down, the best price, you know, deliver just exactly what they said, don't help. No, I think it's really a partnership because everybody wants things to go well and manufacturing to grow in the United States. So treat it as a partnership, not an adversarial relationship. And I think manufacturing technology suppliers can can help quite a bit.

Amanda Cupido 22:25

Yeah, and celebrating those wins when it does go right, because I feel like sometimes they just keep moving along and even just internally sharing those success stories can go a long way.

Kevin Bowers 22:34

Yes, I think that you know, when we do customer satisfaction surveys, we tend to focus on the negative, right? And never not not celebrate, oh, I love this service. I love this, you know, all these things. So celebrate the wins is just as critical as uh doing the root cause on some of the failures. So that was that's a great point. Celebrate the wins, you know, put that news out there.

Amanda Cupido 22:53

All right. Final question. If you could suggest one bold, no regrets move today for factory leaders so that they can create maybe just a little bit more certainty in their operations five years from now, what would it be?

Kevin Bowers 23:08

Connect your equipment to the cloud. The data you collect from that equipment is almost more valuable than the equipment itself, right? It'll lead to all sorts of insightful information and help you make better decisions. So, you know, connect it now. You know, the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now. So connect your equipment.

Amanda Cupido 23:27

There you go. I think we leave it there. Any final thoughts on uncertainty in these uncertain times before we wrap up?

Kevin Bowers 23:36

Yeah, really. I think, you know, the you know, invest in the future, invest in software, invest in automation, or invest in robotics. You know, we're not replacing people, we're just augmenting people. There's still a shortage of 400,000, 500,000, you know, manufacturing jobs. So allow the people you have to do more higher value things and let the things that uh aren't as high value or or a bit risky or whatever be done by you know automation and robotics and and software so that you know we can get the most out of the people we have and then hopefully attract more people because it's even safer. It's you know a nice little flywheel, I think.

Amanda Cupido 24:14

That's great. Well, thank you so much for joining me, Kevin, and thank you for listening to People B4 Machines conversations on the chaos of factory automation powered by Eclipse. We're here to challenge the status quo in factory automation because machines don't build factories, but people do. The technical producer for this podcast is Ryan Dentinger, and I'm Amanda Cupido. If you got something out of today's episode, do us a favor, share it with a teammate, a plant leader, or anyone who's tired of the automation echo chamber. Be sure to follow this podcast for real talk, bold questions, and sharp insights. And remember, the future isn't fully automated, it's people powered. See you next time.

Speaker 1 24:58

Thanks for listening to People B4 Machines.com.