Mental Load Explained: What Partnership Actually Means | EP 29

You've heard her say it a hundred times: "I need help with the mental load." But what the hell does that even mean? 

Alessandro breaks down the three layers every task actually has and why most men only see one of them. This isn’t vague or theoretical. It’s a practical framework that puts real structure around what’s been happening in your household.

Using real examples from his own marriage and coaching clients, Alessandro shows you exactly where you're dropping the ball without even knowing it. 

From doing the dishes to buying birthday gifts, he reveals the invisible work your wife has been doing and why she's exhausted even when you think you're pulling your weight. 

Chapters:
00:02:06 - The Task You Can See
00:04:30 - Why She's Still Exhausted After You "Help"
00:10:30 - The Gift Test 
00:15:20 - The Emotional Toll You're Missing
00:18:47 - Co-Parenting Trap
00:21:30 - Step In Without Becoming Her

Alessandro helps you understand what "partnership" actually looks like in action.

Men who start applying this often see fewer fights, less resentment, and a shift from being managed to actually being on a team.

You'll learn how to spot the difference between helping out and actually owning your share and why that shift changes everything at home.

Stay until the end for Alessandro's breakdown of emotional labor in parenting and how your passive approach might be creating the exact problem you're complaining about.

Listen and learn how to stop being a task-taker and become a real partner.

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Disclaimer: This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for therapy. Always seek qualified guidance for your personal situation.

Views shared by Alessandro Frosali and his guests reflect their lived experiences and opinions. Every listener’s journey is unique, and no therapeutic relationship is created.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Alessandro Frosali: You probably clicked on this with the word mental load to try and work out exactly what it is because your wife's been going. I just need help with this mental load. While we're gonna break down the three layers of what mental load actually is, we're gonna demystify this whole thing.

[00:00:13] Alessandro Frosali: Alright? Take it outta the realm of the feeling and bring it into the realm of the practical so we can be better husbands, you are listening to shut the Fuck up and listen, from boy to man to better husband. Let's dive in. So mental load. I hear it all the time, you know, I hear it all the time. women always say, [00:00:30] I need help with the mental load.

[00:00:31] Alessandro Frosali: I need help with the mental load. I need help with the mental load and, and. There was a, a, a guest I had recently on the podcast, Zach Watson, and he spoke about, uh, mental load, funnily enough, and, and, and he brings up this, uh, idea or, or this thing from a book called Fair Play. and interesting enough, there's, there's this idea about that, which is the three layers of a task.

[00:00:54] Alessandro Frosali: The three layers of a task, and these are physical, well, let's say labors, so to speak. They're the [00:01:00] three labors of a task. And I thought it was so beneficial. And I've actually been using this diagram for my clients, uh, in coaching because it helps us actually understand what our wives are thinking about.

[00:01:11] Alessandro Frosali: Now, ironically, this actually really works for men to understand what happens with mental load and what mental load is for women. They just sort of look at it and go. Duh. This is what I've been thinking the whole time and, and I believe this is, you know, women inherently are a lot more feeling based. You know, where, uh, they're, they're feeling based.

[00:01:29] Alessandro Frosali: [00:01:30] It's, it's whether they feel that there is a problem and, and, and men, it's, it's achievement based. It's, it's outward based. And so sometimes we, we, we get, we, we say that it's more rational and, um, and women sometimes hate when you say men are more rational. But in general, we tend to look for logic, right?

[00:01:46] Alessandro Frosali: We look for logic as ways to understand things, and the feeling gets brought down. So. Breaking up mental load or specifically the, the load of each task into three specific loads. [00:02:00] Although I'm, I'm told that there are more, but let's not dive into that all the way right now. Let's just take it as three specific loads.

[00:02:06] Alessandro Frosali: Really helps with identifying what's going on. So let's break it down. Number one, the first, labor, or the first, layer of a specific task is physical labor. So this will start making sense when I start bringing in examples. So I'll tell each like step or each layer, and then we are going to give examples for each one.

[00:02:26] Alessandro Frosali: So let's imagine the task of doing the dishes. All of [00:02:30] us, every single man I believe knows the first layer of any kind of labor, any mental load. We, we, we understand the first layer very well, which is the physical labor of doing a task. So if we talk about doing the dishes, the physical labor of doing the task is quite literally going and doing the fucking dishes.

[00:02:48] Alessandro Frosali: We know it. We know it very well. It's very intrinsically. In actual fact, it's almost the only thing that we see, which is like we go do dish. Dish done. Good. We did task. Okay. We [00:03:00] think that's done. So we actually got the first, layer down. We actually, in general, you know, even when, when wives ask you to go do the dishes, you do the dishes and then your wife gets annoyed because she feels like she's done too much in that.

[00:03:13] Alessandro Frosali: Then we go, what the hell are you talking about? I did the dishes. You didn't, why are you upset? We're gonna find out that in the next couple of layers going in. But that's the physical layer, the doing of the task. Kids being taken to school. You pick up the kid, put it in a car, take the kid [00:03:30] in the car to the school.

[00:03:31] Alessandro Frosali: That's the physical labor of doing a task. Great. We understand the first layer, right? I think the first layer is the simplest. It's easy to understand If, if I've lost you already, then fuck, we're in for a, your wife's in for a ride. Alright, let's move on to the second layer because this is where things get interesting.

[00:03:50] Alessandro Frosali: To every task. Not only is there a physical component to it, but there is a mental component to it. And this side is called mental labor. Okay. This is [00:04:00] where the mental load comes in. And no, there's not only two. There's actually another layer in there as well, which we're gonna talk about coming up, but fine.

[00:04:08] Alessandro Frosali: Let's talk about the mental labor, and I'm gonna give you. Two examples for this, or I'm gonna give you two ex actually I'll give you a few examples to show you where mental labor comes in, because this is where I believe we can have a huge bunch of mileage as men. If we just start understanding the mental labor here, we'll have a lot of mileage.

[00:04:29] Alessandro Frosali: So for [00:04:30] example, mental labor, we jump in and, um, let's go with the dishes again. We've done the dishes. And then next week, Saturday. The dishes Well, each day actually, funnily enough, the dishes are still not done and your wife has to ask you all the time to go and do the dishes. The fact that she has to ask you, because if she didn't ask you the dishes would not get done, means that there is some kind of mental managerial labor that goes into this task.[00:05:00] 

[00:05:00] Alessandro Frosali: That's so I'll say that again. If you are doing the dishes, that's the physical labor. But if you have to get asked to do the dishes because the dishes are not being done, that starts creeping into mental labor. She has to be a manager for you in order to get it done. And now let's extrapolate that out.

[00:05:17] Alessandro Frosali: We understand this when we are talking about business, right? We really, as men, we understand this in business context, but we don't understand this in the home. So I know, like I have a couple of video editors, you [00:05:30] know, and I've, I used to run a social media agency and whenever I would hire a new video. editor and sometimes, you know, I didn't have my SOPs or like standard operating procedures in place and, and I would just say to the, the, the editor, can you just edit this video up?

[00:05:43] Alessandro Frosali: But then yeah, like, and I said, make sure you, make sure you look at our other videos to see. What needs to be done in the style for this client, and he would look at the other videos and then he would produce a video and, and the video would not have the standard like CTAs or call to [00:06:00] actions or the standard things at the end of them that needed to happen within the client.

[00:06:03] Alessandro Frosali: For the, for the clients, I was like. Did you just watch that video? I like, I have to tell you to put that CTA in, put the CTA in. He's like, oh yeah, okay, okay, I'll do that. So he put the CTA in and then the next time he gave me a video, he gave it to me without the CTA and I was like, look, I told you every time we do a video, we have to put that CTA in.

[00:06:20] Alessandro Frosali: He's like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I forgot I'll, I'll do that now. And then every time I had to keep reminding him to put the fucking CTA in and [00:06:30] half the time when he would deliver, I was really busy and I was like, fuck it, I'll do it myself. And I would just jump in there and put the CTA on. And then he got annoyed 'cause I was doing his job.

[00:06:38] Alessandro Frosali: And I was like, well dude, I have to ask you to do your job. You are supposed to make it easier for me. And once we had the first mistake. Right. I asked you nicely, can you put a CTA the second time? I wasn't that nice. The third time you were fucking fired. Gone. ' cause you, you're making my life harder.

[00:06:56] Alessandro Frosali: That's not what the whole point of this. Now let's come back [00:07:00] to your, your relationship here. When we are doing things in the household, there is this societal belief that, oh, it's just her job and I'm going to help her with it. It's not, it's your household. It's your household. Now, you might also have an objection that you might hit me with right now.

[00:07:14] Alessandro Frosali: It's like, well, she has a different level of cleanliness. Well, and you just don't mind if it's, if the preference is, is you don't mind. You don't really have a preference. Well, when you have a shared house and shared relationship, you need to actually come up with a shared preference. Okay? First and foremost.

[00:07:29] Alessandro Frosali: And once you've [00:07:30] got that shared preference, and let me, let me be very clear here. Preference beats non preference. So if you have no preference of how the house should be kept and your wife has strong preference, strong preference or preference, beats no preference. Okay? The next part of that is if you have some preference, and she has.

[00:07:45] Alessandro Frosali: Big preference. Then you meet in the middle and you that middle might be closer to her preference. 'cause it's big preference where you have small preference that becomes the shared ship. And if you have strong preference, she has strong preference. You've got to have a meeting about that, initiate that change and make sure that that is a [00:08:00] standard now.

[00:08:00] Alessandro Frosali: Then you uphold that standard in your house because it is your household and everyone's different. I'm not saying every man has to do everything and every woman has to do everything. No. This is something that you two come together to do. Right. But that's something we'll talk about later. I talk about that coming up in my Better Husband Academy.

[00:08:15] Alessandro Frosali: We talk about shared responsibilities, how you have those conversations, things like that. But here we're just talking about the mental load aspect of it and explaining that to you. So essentially. the mental labor of that you can see is like you've got these shared responsibilities in the shared household.

[00:08:29] Alessandro Frosali: And if dishes is [00:08:30] your job and you're not doing them, and your wife has to ask you to do them all the time, it's hitting up as mental labor because she has to wonder whether it's actually gonna get done or not. And I know it as a businessman, but why did I not know it? As a husband.

[00:08:42] Alessandro Frosali: And that's the interesting thing. And, and I think that comes down to priorities. Another thing that I talk about at different times, but that comes down to your priorities and what you think is important. And if you want to have a better marriage, you've gotta make things that you weren't, weren't priorities to you before.

[00:08:57] Alessandro Frosali: They've gotta be priorities to you now because that's what being a [00:09:00] husband is. Okay. So that's one aspect of mental labor is actually sort of that managerial, making sure it gets done. But there's also the doing of the task, which is very important as well. And, and making sure that the task is done well and making sure that the task is actually can be done, uh, so that the physical labor can be done.

[00:09:17] Alessandro Frosali: For example, I'll give you a, a. New example. Well, let's stick with the dishes just for a second and then I'll give you a little quiz. So with the dishes, you know, you might go to do the physical labor of the dishes, but the moment you get there, then you don't have any dish soap and you [00:09:30] don't have any dish soap.

[00:09:30] Alessandro Frosali: So you have to, would have to go buy some dish soap, but have to go buy some dish soap. It's on a Sunday, and you've gotta make sure that you can do that in time because you've gotta have the dishes done and you can't just go. We just have no dishes done. We gotta work out when you can do it right. That all falls into mental labor as well, because that's the mental labor of everything that needs to be done before you can actually do the physical task.

[00:09:49] Alessandro Frosali: And that's all part of labor as well. I used to work as a film director and all day people used to come to me and, um, ask me questions on a set, and that was the whole job of being a filmmaker. It's just like, yes, no questions. [00:10:00] Costume designer would come in and say, can this person's dress be yellow?

[00:10:04] Alessandro Frosali: Can this person's, Eyeliner be blue. I don't, I don't know. I fucking questions all the time. Yes, no questions. And I would finish the day and I would be tired. I would do jack shit. I would sit there, eat and be told, uh, asked questions and I would just answer yes, nos and, and whys. but essentially it made me tired because you do a lot of mental labor and things like that, and if you have a mental in labor induced job, you know, you'll understand what I mean.

[00:10:29] Alessandro Frosali: It does take a lot [00:10:30] from your brain. let me give you an example of something that happened with a client, uh, the other day. I wanna give you a test with this and see if you understand why. I wanna see if you understand why this was a problem. So a client of mine had, a wife who told him to go and buy a gift for his daughter.

[00:10:46] Alessandro Frosali: So the daughter had a birthday coming up and she was like, I'm an entrepreneur and I'm also doing the at home duties a lot. I need you to go sort that gift out, sorted out. He's like, yes, I got this. And then so he [00:11:00] goes ahead to try and do it and, um. Lo and behold, he gets to go and do the physical labor of the task, which is to go buy it on Amazon.

[00:11:08] Alessandro Frosali: And he gets hit up with all these questions that he's like, oh gosh, we got Black Friday coming up. Do I, do I wait until Black Friday to buy this gift? But if I wait until Black Friday, does that mean it's actually gonna arrive in time enough for the, for the daughter's birthday? But also, what does she like?

[00:11:23] Alessandro Frosali: Does she like yellow or green or does she like this or that? I don't know. and. Should we, how [00:11:30] big are we prioritizing this? And so he sends her a long text, text message with all those questions, asking her every single one. And then he gets, she gets so pissed off with him, like absolutely irate. And then he comes to me and he's just like, Alessandro, why was she pissed off?

[00:11:45] Alessandro Frosali: I don't get it. I was just asking her some questions, right? I'll give you a little moment here. Why do you think she was pissed off? Why do you think she was pissed off? Well, as we've just discussed. He didn't like if she [00:12:00] wanted him to do the physical labor of the task, just the physical labor of the task.

[00:12:04] Alessandro Frosali: If she wanted that from him, she would've said, go and buy this gift for this price at this thing, and make sure that it arrives for her birthday on this date. Do I need to explain the day to you too? Yes. Her birthday is this day. Go and do it, right? That's her doing all the mental labor and telling him to do the physical labor.

[00:12:23] Alessandro Frosali: But no, she's asking him to do the whole task, which includes the mental labor aspect of it. It [00:12:30] includes that. And so the reason he also asked her for all those questions was because it was hard. And why do you think she handed it to him in the first place? Because it had mental labor that she did not want to fucking do.

[00:12:43] Alessandro Frosali: So when a wife asks you, can you do this task? She's not asking you just to do the physical side of it. She's asking you to do all aspects of the task. All aspects of the tasks include the mental labor side of it. I [00:13:00] hope you see that there is a lot more that goes into a task even the other day. I hope my brother doesn't listen to this, but he, he might.

[00:13:06] Alessandro Frosali: And if he does, actually, you know what? I hope he does listen to this. The other day I went to to, to hike a mountain with my brother. Arrived at the parking lot for it, and I, I needed to get, the harness on my dog and fix our lunches for the pack. And I said, Hey, can you organize the, the parking ticket?

[00:13:22] Alessandro Frosali: And the parking ticket was right next to the fucking car. And we get, he gets to the parking ticket. He's just like, oh, [00:13:30] oh, it's gonna need coins. And I'm like, yeah, do you have coins? And he's like, no. So I was like, okay, here's my wallet through my, it threw in my wallet. And he's like, oh, it needs the license plate number.

[00:13:42] Alessandro Frosali: And I was like, yeah. It's there. It's right in front of you. You don't need me to, to give you the license plate number. and then he was like, oh, I don't know if we have enough coins. And I'm like trying to get a leash on a dog and trying to put a hiking [00:14:00] leash around me and then sort out our lunches at the same time.

[00:14:02] Alessandro Frosali: I'm like. Well, are there any other, and I'm, see I'm already now doing the mental load from my side. You probably recognize this in your wife right now, and you're probably going, oh shit. You know, the thing is, and, and because I do this work, I start seeing it right? And maybe I'm a little bit more attuned to it now, and it's really good to be attuned to it 'cause I can start seeing it in people like my fucking brother.

[00:14:22] Alessandro Frosali: And I was just like, whoa, dude, stop asking me these questions and fucking sort it out. Just [00:14:30] sort it out. And halfway through asking whether I should come over because it doesn't have coins. 'cause I don't know what to do around this thing. He goes, oh no, it has card. Oh, but there's no insert. And I'm like, do I just tell him that it has a, do I just tell him that it has like a tap?

[00:14:46] Alessandro Frosali: You can just tap. And then he tapped, right? And then he is like, oh, found it, found it. No need to come here. So the thing is we might laugh, might joke, might whatever, but I used to be that guy. and I, I see very smart men, like that as well in coaching all the time. They don't [00:15:00] understand the mental labor of a task.

[00:15:01] Alessandro Frosali: They just think doing a task is doing the physical labor side of it, and it's not, there's a lot more to it. Okay, so those are the, the first two layers. We've got physical labor, we've got mental labor. What do we think the third layer is? This, this final layer of mental load or, or, you know, the layers of, of a task.

[00:15:20] Alessandro Frosali: The final one is emotional labor. Emotional labor. Now, now what the fuck does this mean? Is this, is this some kind of, you know, [00:15:30] pansy thing? I might hear some of the guys say. alright, so let's not be, so I can sometimes say I talk shit on this podcast. Sorry. let me get, not get off track. So.

[00:15:45] Alessandro Frosali: Essentially emotional labor is, every single task has an emotional aspect to it too. We know this, and if you're struggling to think about it, think about times where you really struggled with something. [00:16:00] I had a client the other day who, who, needed 40 minutes to get ready for our session, and he told his wife like, oh, I just need a.

[00:16:08] Alessandro Frosali: I need to brush my teeth. And, and his wife's getting pissed off because she has things to do and, and he's just like, oh, I've just, I just needed the time. I needed the time 'cause I needed to brush my teeth and, and, uh, this, and, and he's just not telling her the truth of it, but the truth of it, right, is the emotional labor of that task was, I'm really nervous to talk to Alessandro.

[00:16:23] Alessandro Frosali: I'm really nervous to talk to Alessandro and because I'm nervous to talk to Alessandro, I need time to get myself ready. And [00:16:30] you can see straight away that's actually emotional labor of a task. Sometimes a task is gonna be a lot for us. And I don't believe that one on the man's side here. If you have emotional labor on a task, don't brush it off.

[00:16:42] Alessandro Frosali: Be honest about it. It doesn't mean that you know your wife will be just kind to you fully and and fully understand it. She'll understand it a lot more than if you lie or downplay what that emotional labor is for you or for her for that matter. So that was one aspect to it is like, I feel like you probably have emotional labor to tasks that you don't think [00:17:00] of.

[00:17:00] Alessandro Frosali: Two is, emotional labor sort of comes in packages that you're not really sure of sometimes within a task. So for example, I know my wife sometimes people pleases more than me, and she really struggles with. Like tax people as well to message them. And, and, and she's German, so she really likes things taxed to be really sort, sorted properly.

[00:17:18] Alessandro Frosali: And, and so even when we have to, when it comes to tax time to message our tax lady, when she was handling that within our shared roles and responsibilities, it would take her like an hour and a half just to write a one fucking email. [00:17:30] And I would be like, what's going on? What have you done? And she's just like.

[00:17:33] Alessandro Frosali: I've been handling the email is like handling the email like you started that 90 minutes ago then she'd get angry about it and you realize that there's a lot of emotional labor for her on that due to all the stuff within her. Now, of course, number one way that we always move through anything, if you listen to this man or woman, is start becoming living an examined life and start finding out the things that are taking you ages and that you get emotional about.

[00:17:54] Alessandro Frosali: Start working through that. But if we don't wanna go through fucking years worth of introspection and labor about this, we can also [00:18:00] see whether one person in the relationship actually can handle something easier than the other. 'cause that's fucking teamwork. So for example, when it means messaging, our tax lady, that takes me a minute.

[00:18:09] Alessandro Frosali: And if I'm not sure about something, I get chatty to write it. 'cause I don't give a flying fuck. Just wanna make sure that the, the information is right. And so once that's done, I can send that off in a minute and that would take me a minute versus my wife doing it for 90 minutes. So if there's emotional labor in a task, you also get to learn who's got the most emotional labor in a task and who [00:18:30] should do that then.

[00:18:30] Alessandro Frosali: Right? And that's how you build fairness in relationship to the final aspect of an emotional. Laborers, you might not understand the, the emotional toll that certain things take. A heartbreaking example for another one of my clients was, and I think this actually happens a lot in marriages that I see, especially when there are kids involved.

[00:18:47] Alessandro Frosali: There was, um, a kid where the kid was sometimes doing things wrong. And when this kid did something wrong, the wife would come in and be really angry at the kid. And because nobody was, she felt the husband was not like [00:19:00] co-parenting well enough with him. So she would come in and be like, I need, you are welcome to co-parent if you like, and.

[00:19:10] Alessandro Frosali: This client of mine was saying to me like, that's, that's gotta be her shit, right? Like, she's, she's projecting that onto me. I'm not gonna shout at my kid. like, that's not the way that I do this. Right? It's the way that I do this. And I said, hold on for, for a minute. She only does that every single time that, that she feels that you're not parenting [00:19:30] him.

[00:19:30] Alessandro Frosali: And then she, she overreacts sometimes and, and goes into a shouting mode with the kid. And then she says to you, you're welcome to co-parent. Okay, so she, let's, let's pull this back a little bit. Could it possibly be that she believes that when you do not. Display any form of parenting. You just, you're easygoing and you're, and you're going passive, and you're in your passive nature and you're, and you, you're just going, I, I don't mind anything.

[00:19:55] Alessandro Frosali: Right? Even with your kids, she knows that the kid needs a, a firmer hand with something, and [00:20:00] so she does it the only way that she feels that she knows how to, in that moment, which might be a little bit too heavy handed, but then she's got the emotional labor. Here it comes of feeling like she's the only one who's, who's the bad guy to the kid.

[00:20:15] Alessandro Frosali: She's actually always has to be the bad guy because you will not step in at all. And so she has to do it that way and you don't really care. And there's an emotional labor that comes into that thinking like, oh my gosh, I'm always the one who has [00:20:30] to, I'm always the one who has to be the bad guy to our kid because you will not be a parent.

[00:20:34] Alessandro Frosali: To this. And that's a huge emotional labor that comes into, that, comes into the task. And it probably colors her stress. And when her stress goes high, then she's going to be more critical. And that is, is, is going to hurt the child, but it's also gonna hurt your relationship and it's gonna hurt everybody involved.

[00:20:48] Alessandro Frosali: And the answer to that is actually for, for you as the husband to step in. And it doesn't mean you have to parent in the way that. she does. You know, she might be coming from stress and, and, and criticism because [00:21:00] that's, that's, that's at a point where when a woman's nervous system is fried and she's genuinely, and then when you put hormones into that, uh, she feels unsafe.

[00:21:08] Alessandro Frosali: And when she feels unsafe, she's going to attack. She's gonna feel like she's attacking and. You know, we might all just go as men, just like, oh, but she should just calm down. But the thing is, it's that passive nature that's, that's really pulling into this. And so the way that we counteract this is you don't have to do the things the same way that she does.

[00:21:27] Alessandro Frosali: A wonderful example is to, in this sort of [00:21:30] situation is to go, well, okay, let me, let me work out whether that my kid is actually analytical. What's a different way to get him to, to do his tasks other than shouting at him? Shouting is actually not working right now. So if I were to jump in and parent and actually.

[00:21:42] Alessandro Frosali: Be be in, in this situation, what I might do is I might say, Hey, look, if he is a little bit more analytical, why don't we make a little spreadsheet and he has to go in and tick off his, his times that he, he does the task properly each night, like if it's brushing his teeth or whatever, and I am going to be the [00:22:00] one as the husband who makes sure that gets done.

[00:22:02] Alessandro Frosali: Right. Every single night because I care about that and that's how I would parent it. And so he didn't have to shout at all. He can actually jump in with an analytical approach and make sure that the kid doesn't miss a day and, and turn it into a game. And yet that is also co-parenting. And then the wife doesn't feel like she has to be the one that does it all the time.

[00:22:19] Alessandro Frosali: Okay. And that is always team thinking and things like that. But emotional labor's really huge emotional. Labor's really huge on this. It's, it's often overlooked. So don't [00:22:30] overlook it. Don't overlook it. So how do you stop being passive? How do you take initiative? How do you deal with all of that sort of stuff?

[00:22:37] Alessandro Frosali: That's the sort of stuff that I deal with in my emails every single Saturday for free. It's like how you can step up on being a husband, uh, without years worth of therapy. Uh, but I've also got, um, I've also got in January, a better husband academy coming out, which I'm very excited about. So that starts January 3rd.

[00:22:53] Alessandro Frosali: So anyway, everyone, hope you enjoyed that mental load, thing. If you like, my suggestion with this is like to [00:23:00] really just ask yourself, like even write those three down on a piece of paper, physical labor, emotional labor, mental labor, and write out all the ways that you can step up in those three areas in your life, in your family today.

[00:23:10] Alessandro Frosali: And that will be huge for you. Alright, I'll see you next week.