Marriage Leadership Dies When You're Numbing Through Constant Distraction with Nic Warner, Men's Coach | EP 30

What if every complaint you have about your wife is actually pointing to your own lack of leadership? 

Alessandro sits down with Nic Warner, a men's coach who learned radical accountability the hard way through his ex-wife's affair. 

Instead of playing victim, Nic asked himself the question that changed everything: "What if I chose this?" Together they dig into why men avoid discomfort, how your phone addiction is killing your presence, and why you struggle to hold your woman’s emotions when you’re constantly draining your energy through distraction and ejaculation.

Chapters:
00:01:32 - Blame Feels Good Until You Lose Power
00:04:57 - The Affair That Forced Accountability
00:07:26 - Responsibility Is The Fastest Path To Change
00:09:22 - Meeting The Shadow Masculine
00:13:41 - Presence Starts With Putting The Phone Down
00:17:00 - Why Men Can’t Sit With Discomfort
00:21:30 - Comfort Culture Is Weakening Men
00:24:00 - If You Avoid Discomfort, Life Gets Louder
00:27:00 - What Actually Serves Love In Conflict
00:32:00 - Fatherhood Exposes Your Inner Voice
00:39:58 - Don’t Blame Your Father 

This conversation is for the guy who's tired of blaming his wife and ready to look at his own shit. You'll learn why your complaints are doorways to growth, how to expand your capacity to hold the feminine (the riverbank analogy alone is worth it), and what it actually means to ask "what serves love" instead of "what serves me." 

They also get into semen retention, impulse control, and why sitting with discomfort without needing it to change is the ultimate masculine practice.

Stay until the end for one of the most cryptic and powerful truths you'll hear: "Don't blame your father, you chose him." It'll take you three years to understand it, but once you do, everything shifts.

Listen and learn how to stop complaining and start leading.

Connect with Nic: www.nicwarner.com

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Disclaimer: This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for therapy. Always seek qualified guidance for your personal situation.

Views shared by Alessandro Frosali and his guests reflect their lived experiences and opinions. Every listener’s journey is unique, and no therapeutic relationship is created.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Alessandro Frosali: Any complaint that you have is a reflection of your own lack of leadership

[00:00:05] Alessandro Frosali: maybe she has a low libido, or maybe you initiate sex is just a turnoff.

[00:00:10] Alessandro Frosali: that's her thing, then you disempower yourself to make any difference

[00:00:14] Alessandro Frosali: Where did you not set boundaries?

[00:00:15] Alessandro Frosali: fault or his fault, what if I actually created it? What if I chose it?

[00:00:18] Alessandro Frosali: the moment I took responsibility, everything shifted. 

[00:00:20] Alessandro Frosali: don't blame your father, you chose him

[00:00:23] Alessandro Frosali: there's probably a man listening to that right now going, shit, that's me welcome Nick. 

[00:00:26] Nic Warner: Thanks for having me. 

[00:00:28] Alessandro Frosali: I wanna dive straight in because something you said, [00:00:30] which I think is. Fucking groundbreaking, and I would love to get an answer from you as to what you, well, what, what do you mean by it?

[00:00:37] Alessandro Frosali: Which is any complaint that you have is a reflection of your own lack of leadership. What do you mean by that? For

[00:00:45] Alessandro Frosali: men?

[00:00:46] Nic Warner: it's, it's this kind of, you know, I know you speak a lot to the, the boy or the immature masculine and this idea of blame and of, classic, uh, complaint is. Your woman's lack of libido, [00:01:00] for example, you know, maybe she has a low libido, or maybe the way that you initiate sex is just a turnoff.

[00:01:08] Nic Warner: Maybe your lack of presence is a turnoff. Maybe the fact that you are emotionally closed off and you haven't tried to open her heart and soften her heart. And, um, deepened the emotional connection with her. Maybe all of those things are actually [00:01:30] what is causing her libido to be non-existent or low. So every complaint that men have in relationship, it's reflecting back to them in real time where their leadership could be better or different or is non-existent or. also means it maybe boundaries need to be set. Um, 

[00:01:52] Alessandro Frosali: Hmm.

[00:01:53] Nic Warner: I mean one of the key elements of, of the way that I teach and coach is [00:02:00] radical accountability. And how can you take 100% responsibility for everything? And then you get the men that are like, oh, bullshit. It's her fault. 'cause she did this and she did.

[00:02:11] Nic Warner: And it's like, yeah, great. She has her part in it. No question. If you put all the blame onto her or some of the blame onto her, or if you just say, well, that's her thing, then you disempower yourself to make any difference

[00:02:24] Nic Warner: and what a terrible situation that would be. So even in the case of [00:02:30] she's abusive

[00:02:33] Nic Warner: well, yeah, that's a terrible thing, but how did you allow a culture such as that she can be abusive to be created?

[00:02:41] Nic Warner: Where did you not set boundaries? Where did you not step in and say, Hey, that's unacceptable. I will not put up with that. So it doesn't matter what the complaint is, there's always a way that we can take ownership, take accountability, and then lead it into a different direction.

[00:02:58] Alessandro Frosali: I love it. I mean, we're being [00:03:00] completely aligned on that. I, and I love the way that we, um, when you get there, you can get there in, in so many different ways. Like, I, I always have this analogy of, uh, your shit and her shit, 

[00:03:11] Alessandro Frosali: and in the end, you've gotta shovel away your shit because if you don't, you don't know what's yours and hers.

[00:03:16] Alessandro Frosali: It's 

[00:03:16] Alessandro Frosali: all contaminated. So the only way is to, is to take yours. But I love that a, a approach from you and I. I find it interesting because I also get the, the complaint from men that they might say, but shouldn't both sides [00:03:30] have that kind of, uh, accountability and, and, and that, so what would you say to, to that kind of men who goes, well, but isn't that actually just a fact of life?

[00:03:37] Alessandro Frosali: That we all take accountability and

[00:03:39] Alessandro Frosali: responsibility for us? 

[00:03:40] Nic Warner: It should be, but a lot of men don't. And I say the same thing to women, like how can you take a hundred percent responsibility for your part in this? you know, women that are controlling, but they want their man to lead. So either, [00:04:00] you know, there's a good chance that she actually doesn't allow the space for him to lead.

[00:04:05] Nic Warner: Or every time he does lead, she micromanages how he leads. So is it really true that he isn't leading or he lacks, um, is it true that he doesn't lead or is it, is it more true that he doesn't have the space to lead? So it, it does go both ways. The, it's not this tit for tat bullshit. It's how can I take a hundred, a hundred percent [00:04:30] responsibility for me and for my part in the quality of the relationship? Um, and to just sit back and say, 

[00:04:36] Alessandro Frosali: yeah.

[00:04:37] Nic Warner: or to sit back and say, yeah, but it, it's both ways. It's

[00:04:40] Nic Warner: like, Yeah, sure. Okay, but 

[00:04:42] Alessandro Frosali: But anyone who says that is not taking even responsibility of their side, 

[00:04:46] Alessandro Frosali: like the, the, because I think the first, the first moment that you actually take responsibility for your side, you, you straightaway even realize that. You don't have to say, but, but she's not doing it. It's, it's an excuse, uh, for not doing it.

[00:04:59] Alessandro Frosali: That's an [00:05:00] excuse for holding it back. I, I love that radical accountability. And, and how did you know, like I, I know, uh, and I think my, my, my listeners know how I got to that, uh, understanding, but how did you get to that understanding? What, what was it that made you realize, you know what, I have to take 

[00:05:14] Alessandro Frosali: a hundred percent responsibility.

[00:05:15] Alessandro Frosali: I.

[00:05:15] Nic Warner: Uh, my ex-wife had an affair. 

[00:05:19] Nic Warner: I very much played the victim for a long time, and was just like they did this to me and my life is ruined [00:05:30] because they did this to me and that experience in life. Was the catalyst that catapulted me into this new way of being. And at some point I was traveling the world and living, you know, the greatest experience of life that I had had up to that point.

[00:05:50] Nic Warner: And I, again, went to regurgitate the same story. My wife had an affair and, and they ruined my life. And I was halfway through this sentence. I'm like, [00:06:00] fuck man. That's not even true. This was the, yeah, sure it was painful, but it was the greatest experience of my life. what if I, instead of it all being her fault or his fault, what if I actually created it? What if I chose it? What if I chose for everything that has ever happened for me to actually, like, I chose for this to happen. Okay, so why would I have done that? I would've done that. So I was forced. To separate from her because nothing [00:06:30] else would've done it for me, and I would've chosen that because it would force me to go back and heal all of the shit, the shit that I'd been carrying my whole life that I'd never wanted to look at.

[00:06:41] Nic Warner: And I was pretty much an alcoholic since I was about 14 and got heavily into drugs and partying, and I was just numbing my existence and. 

[00:06:53] Alessandro Frosali: Hmm. 

[00:06:53] Nic Warner: That's what it would've taken. That's what it did take for me to actually reflect on [00:07:00] where I was and what I needed to do to change. So I realized that, I was like, okay, so where else? You know, how was I responsible? I was completely numb. I was emotionally avoidant. I didn't give her any presence. Like nothing that women needed, I was able to give her, and then I blamed her for having an affair. It's like fucking ridiculous. So, you know, radical accountability.[00:07:30] 

[00:07:30] Nic Warner: I did this, I created this. Yes, sure, she has her part in it, and she could have done things differently perhaps, but it's not the way that it happened. And the moment that I realized that, and the moment I took responsibility, everything shifted. 

[00:07:44] Alessandro Frosali: Let's take a quick break. If you are listening to this podcast, because things have been rough at home, the fights, the tone, the distance between you and your wife, well then maybe you need to know something. The Better Husband Academy is officially open.

[00:07:55] Alessandro Frosali: It's a 70 day program where I teach you exactly how to stop the same arguments, drop [00:08:00] defensiveness, repair resentment, and actually show up as a man that you and your wife respect. Again, These are real tools, the stuff that actually works with you and your wife in real time, in real life, not just years of talking in therapy in circles.

[00:08:13] Alessandro Frosali: The academy doors are open for one month, and this is the only way to work with me for a long time. And once the doors close, they close, and I go all in with the men inside. so if you wanna change things at home, join the Better Husband Academy. Now I, I love that. So if you're listening to this right now, let me just, just [00:08:30] double down on that point because I, I absolutely love how, regardless of whether. Uh, regardless if, if we have to get into the weeds for the truth of it. I think what you are saying, and, and what I also believe in this is that it is also the most efficient tool for change too of future change.

[00:08:49] Alessandro Frosali: If you take radical accountability regardless of whether it was 90% yours, 10% yours to take 20% regardless of the percentage number, if you take radical accountability, it [00:09:00] is the most efficient way to actually exact meaningful

[00:09:03] Alessandro Frosali: change moving forward

[00:09:03] Alessandro Frosali: into the future. Would you say that that's true? 

[00:09:06] Nic Warner: Yeah, I think there's a, I mean,

[00:09:08] Nic Warner: I, I, I acknowledge the part of us that is victim in some circumstance, and there, there is a, almost like a spectrum of healing. That when you get to the point where you can actually ask yourself, if I chose this, what is the reason it would be for, for me? That's [00:09:30] when your healing starts to, it's evolved.

[00:09:33] Nic Warner: Um, and part of that process is learning to take accountability for what happened. 

[00:09:41] Alessandro Frosali: Yeah, that's beautiful. So I hear you say, you know, victim, and then we talk about masculine and we talk about feminine and we talk about wounded and we talk about these, what are, what are your takes on on this? Style of, of teaching, so to speak. 'cause I look at it as really architect, uh, archetypical, you know?

[00:09:59] Alessandro Frosali: Uh, [00:10:00] and, and when did you come into to noticing the archetypes and different things like that, and then incorporating that

[00:10:06] Alessandro Frosali: into your work? What is your 

[00:10:07] Alessandro Frosali: view on that? 

[00:10:08] Nic Warner: I mean, I first, I first started reading about the archetypes many years ago, and it was through the shadow that I started to realize that I didn't embody any of the healthy traits. Um, 

[00:10:22] Alessandro Frosali: Hmm. 

[00:10:22] Nic Warner: I was like, wow, okay. I'm, I'm very much the

[00:10:25] Nic Warner: weakling. I'm very much the addicted [00:10:30] lover. I am very much the manipulative magician. And I was just, you know, the, the masochistic worry. I was just like, wow, this is fucking, this is quite a reflection. And once I realized that, I was like, okay, so why is this a thing? Why am I like this? And, you know, take it back to childhood and certain things that happened. [00:11:00] When you're a child, the way that my parents raised me or the, the relationship that I had with my father, um, the experiences that I had with boys and with men when I was younger, which were horrible experiences and, and very, very negative and very traumatic many, many times.

[00:11:20] Nic Warner: So I grew up just really disconnected from masculinity. I didn't want to, I didn't want to [00:11:30] associate with it. And because I, I didn't want to be that kind of unsafe masculine, which I'd only ever experienced. Then I disconnected from the masculine internally. So of course I was living in the shadows. Of course, I was all of these things that were disembodied and, 

[00:11:46] Nic Warner: and when you disconnect from a part of you that an inherent part of you. Of course you're gonna struggle. It's just, it's gonna be so difficult to live a life when you don't [00:12:00] want to associate something with something that is such a part of you. 

[00:12:04] Alessandro Frosali: Do you think it's, IM, you know, in, in, in order for growth? Do you think it's important for each person, each man out there to actually know their why? Uh, you know, like, so you, you very clearly labeled that and there's a lot of introspection and self-reflection that I can see there. You know, this, this idea that I've been, uh, I had that connection with the masculine that I didn't like, and so I didn't want to embody that.

[00:12:25] Alessandro Frosali: Do you think it's worthwhile for men out there to know [00:12:30] why they've gotten to where they are 

[00:12:31] Alessandro Frosali: right now? 

[00:12:31] Nic Warner: I think it can help. Um, but you know, there's some, there's some. Ways of being that have occurred due to some kind of trauma where it's not necessary to know 

[00:12:47] Nic Warner: exactly what happened because then you're just in your head going back into the past and trying to figure out story rather than dealing with the present moment [00:13:00] feeling and sensation and contraction and whatever is happening in the present moment.

[00:13:04] Nic Warner: And that is the only thing really. You wanna be dealing with why it happened. It doesn't necessarily matter fact that it's happened and, and you're living a certain experience.

[00:13:18] Nic Warner: That is more the thing. That's where the, that's where the juice is. That's where the, the fuel for that transformation comes from.

[00:13:25] Alessandro Frosali: I almost feel like the why sometimes, uh, provides us with validation. [00:13:30] It provides us with like this feeling of if we didn't feel like, if we felt like we were isolated within the world, you know, you'll see it in a men's circle and someone shares something and everyone else goes, oh my God, I've experienced that too.

[00:13:40] Alessandro Frosali: And then they go, oh, maybe that it ex, maybe that's why I changed as well, that it's, it's like this, it's if you're feeling low on self-confidence and you high on self-doubt, then you go, oh. I'm okay for who I am, and I think the why is very important there, but I a hundred percent agree with you that, that, that that presence is the thing that matters if we wanna [00:14:00] go forward.

[00:14:00] Alessandro Frosali: And how do we, how do we, you know, like I, I know you're big on like wanting to, to make actionable change. You know, one of the things I asked you, which was, um, what would make this a good episode? And you said key takeaways, how. If I were to ask, how can we get key takeaways on how to be more present? 'cause that's the number one question that I always hear, uh, from men. 

[00:14:22] Nic Warner: How to be more present. 

[00:14:24] Alessandro Frosali: Mm. Especially like, and, and, and like, 'cause you know, especially takeaways here, because this is the thing, you know, [00:14:30] we're. We keep saying it. I know in my coaching, I always keep talking about we gotta be more present. You know, I hear it everywhere. Be more present. But then what? What does that actually mean?

[00:14:39] Alessandro Frosali: Ably for men that have 

[00:14:40] Alessandro Frosali: never looked at presence. 

[00:14:42] Nic Warner: Figure out all the ways

[00:14:43] Nic Warner: that you are distracted throughout the day. And mostly for a lot of men, it's the phone. And you know, you go to the toilet, you take your phone. down the street, you take your phone. Everywhere you go, you're attached to your phone. [00:15:00] And what if the next time you go to the toilet, you actually leave your phone and you give yourself some time to be with yourself, and the next time you go down the street, you go to the shops.

[00:15:11] Nic Warner: What if you actually left your phone and bring this into the relationship? Set some container around. Moments where you are with your woman, where the phone is absolutely not necessary. Like at the dinner table, maybe every [00:15:30] time you have a meal with your woman, your phone is away somewhere else where you don't have access to it. And then you sit and you notice the compulsion to do something and it's kind of like you need the dopamine. It's like, oof. Okay. And I, I work a lot. With semen retention with clients, and this what comes up in the body when suddenly jerking off or having sex is off the table because we just use it to numb in [00:16:00] so many ways.

[00:16:01] Nic Warner: And

[00:16:02] Nic Warner: if you don't have that thing that you normally have access to, to distract you from feeling what's beneath. Suddenly something comes up and rather than distracting yourself or numbing yourself, you have to feel it and then allowing yourself to sit through that. This is the, for me, this is how you kind of access a deeper layer of presence.

[00:16:25] Nic Warner: But as far as key takeaways, next time you have dinner with your woman, put your [00:16:30] phone in another room. And then when you're listening to her, 

[00:16:33] Nic Warner: get curious. Tell me more about that. Oh, really? How'd that make you feel? Like, actually get curious around her day, how she's feeling, where she's at, 

[00:16:45] Alessandro Frosali: Hmm. 

[00:16:46] Nic Warner: and do so without needing to fix and without needing to respond, without thinking of what you're gonna say next. as far as the key takeaway, I mean, this is, it's, it's as simple as that for a lot of men. 

[00:16:59] Alessandro Frosali: I always [00:17:00] like even talk about it. It's like when you're in love with something, when you, and also, you know, when you first start in a relationship, there's, there's, there's a lot of love and a lot of, you know, excitement. You're, you're fully present, you're fully there. And I always ask this question, it's like.

[00:17:17] Alessandro Frosali: As a husband, what would it take for you to fall in love with being a good husband? And you'd probably not have a phone around. You'd probably be asking those questions. You'd probably be, uh, doing everything like that. I find it, you, [00:17:30] you mentioned the, the, the semen retention side. And, and I think, I think it comes up because of,

[00:17:35] Alessandro Frosali: uh, correct me if I'm wrong,

[00:17:36] Alessandro Frosali: but it's like the no nut 

[00:17:37] Alessandro Frosali: November, right?

[00:17:38] Nic Warner: That's one. That's the more popularized version. Yeah. 

[00:17:43] Alessandro Frosali: Okay, so when did you first jump into that sort of side of it and what's its benefits? Because that's one area that we've never spoken about on this podcast, and I didn't know we were gonna talk about that today, but that's something that, um, yeah. Why, why is that even 

[00:17:58] Alessandro Frosali: important? 

[00:17:59] Nic Warner: mean, [00:18:00] this is a question I, I first came across it, I had erectile dysfunction, premature ejaculation, porn addiction, and then, you know, wonder why my ex-wife has an affair. But I sat in a meditation retreat and the teacher also taught tantra, and he said, go for seven weeks without ejaculating and see what happens.

[00:18:24] Nic Warner: I was like, fuck dude, I couldn't go seven hours. What do you mean? And he is like, try for seven [00:18:30] weeks. I'm like, I'd never heard of it. And he said, your life force, your, your sexual energy it's your creative energy. It is literally the energy that you use to create life. And if you stop wasting it, see what happens. I was like, all right, let's do it. So I went into 40 days of silence and

[00:18:49] Nic Warner: I got about five weeks in, I think, and I had a wet dream and I was gutted. So fuck that up. I got so close and I missed it. Um, but that was the seed that [00:19:00] was planted for me to, this is 10 years ago. And. I went deeper into it and trained with in Thailand and did all these things.

[00:19:07] Nic Warner: Met a Tanika in Mexico and, and at some point learned to separate my ejaculation from my orgasm because they're two separate bodily functions, which most men never realized because it all happens at once. And the first full bodied orgasm I had, I was just like, I'm fucking never ejaculating again. Why would I do that?

[00:19:29] Nic Warner: Obviously that. [00:19:30] You know, two kids later, that's not a thing. But the intentional release is one of the benefits of it. It allows you to take full control over what is happening. You take the goal out of sex. You want to, you want to, you know, men watch porn and they, they think they gotta perform. And there's this.

[00:19:54] Nic Warner: You know, the, the deep seated masculine wound of I'm not enough. And all of these things, if you want to [00:20:00] perform in the bedroom, inverted, perform, take the goal out of sex. See how present you can be with your woman. See how aware you can be moment to moment of the pleasure in your body without ejaculating, and it changes everything. So we are, you know, it's end of November now. We've got a couple of days left of this cohort and just received a message today, this guy who's had premature ejaculation his whole life, and subtly that's basically gone. So [00:20:30] your ability to retain your seed and retain your energy is one thing, but it also points to your impulse and your compulsion to have to deal with. What you are feeling in the moment? I'm horny. I have to jerk off. I'm bored. I have to numb myself or distract myself. I'm angry. I have to react. There's all these things that happen in our system where there's the impulse to just react instantly rather than,

[00:20:57] Nic Warner: I'm super horny. What if I just sit [00:21:00] here? What if I actually just sit and breathe and allow this energy to run through me until it dissipates and. Masculine practice is, can I be a yes to what is without it needing to be any different? And most men suck at that. 

[00:21:15] Alessandro Frosali: Why. 

[00:21:15] Nic Warner: They were never taught. 

[00:21:16] Alessandro Frosali: Do you believe that? Do you believe that like, like 500 years ago when it was taught or a thousand years ago, that lots of men were good at this? Or is, do you feel like this is a universal masculine? Um, the reason I ask is I've been dealing with this whole [00:21:30] idea that I keep seeing that, you know, men keep striving for peace and I, I wonder whether it's just a universal.

[00:21:37] Alessandro Frosali: Masculine thing that we've encoded where we all want peace, but our goal is to overcome, uh, and, and, and, and be able to sit in the

[00:21:47] Alessandro Frosali: discomfort

[00:21:48] Alessandro Frosali: rather than look for the things that give us 

[00:21:50] Alessandro Frosali: peace. 

[00:21:50] Nic Warner: I will I will change my

[00:21:51] Nic Warner: response. It's not that we were never talk, it's that it is. Our generation has been so, washed with [00:22:00] the ability to make everything comfortable. I'm too hot put on the air conditioning. I want food. dial uber Eats, whatever it is. We can have it basically instantly. And why would I sit with anything that's a little bit uncomfortable if I don't have to? So, you know, go back 50 years when. I'm sure you've heard the story of your grandfather having to walk fucking five miles in the snow to get to school or whatever it was. just, we have it too easy. So why would I put myself through something that's uncomfortable [00:22:30] if I don't have to? 

[00:22:30] Alessandro Frosali: Hmm. 

[00:22:31] Nic Warner: That is a, that's more accurate.

[00:22:33] Nic Warner: And the second part of it is I think men desire freedom and. You know, maybe peace is a part of that. Maybe peace is another way of, of looking at it. Um, but everything we do is for freedom. You know, like ultimately if you get to the bottom of it, it's, you make a bunch of money because you want the freedom of burden, and then you try and fix your woman's issues because you want the freedom from her noise.

[00:22:59] Nic Warner: You [00:23:00] ejaculate because you want the, you, you, there is a few seconds of stillness of the mind where you are free from the incessant thought. And can you, and the thing that we don't realize is that the freedom is in the mind. You can sit in any situation regardless of our uncomfortable. And if you are.

[00:23:17] Nic Warner: Unchained or untethered to the, to the thoughts that run through your head. You are free. 

[00:23:24] Alessandro Frosali: hmm. 

[00:23:24] Nic Warner: And unfortunately, we don't practice enough or train ourselves [00:23:30] enough to reach that. So we find it through cheap means.

[00:23:35] Alessandro Frosali: exactly. I mean, it's, it's so funny because. Most of my clients, you know, if we, if we really boiled down their issues, it's a lack of presence. And I, I can imagine this is also the, the case for almost every client, uh, or every person in this world when they're really dealing with a lot of things. It's a lack of being able to handle the things that are in front of them at the time.

[00:23:55] Alessandro Frosali: You know, I have a couple that like would talk about their issues with their wife, but they can't be present [00:24:00] because. Half their brain is, well, let's say a third is like focused on the, the, the soccer scores. A third is focused on, uh, work and what's happening in the stock market. And then the last third is trying not to fuck up in the house.

[00:24:14] Alessandro Frosali: And so what do they do? They fuck up in the house and they don't even notice anything within that. And then they go, Alessandro, like, how do I. How do I calm in this world? And then they hear someone, like, they might hear someone like you and they go, and then I [00:24:30] just have to not, you know, ejaculate fuck off, so I'm, I'm, I'm bringing that all up because I, I, I can imagine that there's probably a man listening to that right now going, shit, that's me.

[00:24:40] Alessandro Frosali: what would you say to the man that's listening and nodding along to this going, ah, this is, this is me. I, I'm, I'm part of this. Um, and maybe. They're too scared to do anything about it or dunno what

[00:24:55] Alessandro Frosali: to do first. 

[00:24:56] Nic Warner: I mean, part of me is, if you don't know what to [00:25:00] do or you, or you feel resistance to the very idea of sitting in discomfort, that's a pretty good sign. Resistance in life is always a doorway to the next level of experience. And anything that you are staunchly resisting, like not ejaculating for 30 days is going to change the way that you experience life. if you're listening to this and you're like, fuck, that's me. And I don't want to put myself in an uncomfortable situation, then your [00:25:30] entire life is gonna be filled with uncomfortable situations 

[00:25:33] Alessandro Frosali: Mm-hmm. 

[00:25:34] Nic Warner: you lack the ability to sit with them and do nothing. So it's just gonna be more and more, it's just pointing to where you are triggered.

[00:25:45] Nic Warner: And if you are a woman complaining or nagging, uh. Is frustrating for you or is hard for you, or is difficult for you. It just means that you don't have the energetic capacity to hold her. And if you're constantly ejaculating and you're never [00:26:00] putting yourself into an uncomfortable position, you are never going to expand your capacity. So think of the masculine, like a riverbank, 

[00:26:11] Nic Warner: and he provides the direction and the depth and the width, and the feminine is the water. And when it's smooth sailing and she's just, brisk summer's morning and there's no, nothing really happening, it's fantastic. I can just be the way that I am. But the moment the wind comes and the water starts to get choppy and suddenly there's [00:26:30] rabbits, do you collapse or do you actually expand your riverbank or potentially because you were present and dropped in and actually.

[00:26:40] Nic Warner: Not reactive to the way that she is. You open up a little side channel that just diverts some of that energy until she can come back in at a different place. This is the masculine leadership. The complaint that her emotion is too much is either your lack of ability to hold it energetically, your lack of ability to set a [00:27:00] boundary or your lack of presence to actually know what serves love in that moment. 

[00:27:05] Alessandro Frosali: What serves love in that moment. It's a beautiful way of

[00:27:09] Alessandro Frosali: putting it. 

[00:27:10] Nic Warner: It's, um, 

[00:27:11] Alessandro Frosali: way of putting it. 

[00:27:13] Nic Warner: you know, David data speaks of these three stages. So the first stage is selfish. It's all about me, what serves me in the moment, and. My need isn't getting met. Why isn't my need getting met? 

[00:27:29] Alessandro Frosali: Mm-hmm. [00:27:30] 

[00:27:30] Nic Warner: And then stage two is other. So how can we both have our needs met and, Hey, I need this to happen. What would you like to have happen so that we can both have our needs met?

[00:27:40] Nic Warner: Stage two, stage three is the sacred. It's what serves love. It is, it's not about my need. It's not about your need. It's what does love, need, and it takes practice. Because we are so attached to having our own needs met and that being the only thing that's [00:28:00] important. And then you kind of hit that next level of awareness and it's like, fuck, it's not just about me, it's about other people.

[00:28:07] Nic Warner: And this is a, like a, a step up in the level of maturity. 

[00:28:12] Nic Warner: And then the third stage is like, okay, yes, it's about both of us, but what would serve the relationship? What would serve love in this moment? 

[00:28:20] Alessandro Frosali: we always talk about team thinking. We always talk

[00:28:22] Alessandro Frosali: about, you know, you, me and the problem. This is a lot more poetic. [00:28:30] It's a lot more poetic. I love David Data for that. There's some, there's some things with data that I, I always use. One of my favorites of his is that, question he has in one of the earlier chapters, which is about like the, the most annoying.

[00:28:43] Alessandro Frosali: thing that your partner does, right? Think of the most annoying thing that your partner does, and then, uh, ask yourself, is it enough to, if she never changed or assume that she never changed throughout her, her whole life, is it enough to leave her? And if it is [00:29:00] enough to leave her, then essentially grow the balls to leave because that's serving both of you.

[00:29:05] Alessandro Frosali: Uh, in that because she's not going to change. But if, if it isn't enough to leave her, even if it's like, I even say this to people, even if it's like 99.9% enough, but 0.0 one's gonna keep you there. 

[00:29:19] Alessandro Frosali: You are gonna have to love her for it. And, um, I think it's

[00:29:23] Alessandro Frosali: sort of the most fucking powerful things that I've

[00:29:25] Alessandro Frosali: read in that book. 

[00:29:27] Nic Warner: you know, pick the hill you're gonna die on. And if, [00:29:30] if the thing I was with someone once that every time they'd use the sink to wash their face, they'd fucking throw water everywhere.

[00:29:43] Nic Warner: But not just once, like every single time. And I would bring it up several times and. 

[00:29:48] Alessandro Frosali: Yeah. 

[00:29:49] Nic Warner: For them. It was just not a big deal.

[00:29:51] Nic Warner: And it's like, all right, is is this worth ending the relationship over? It's like, no, it's not 

[00:29:59] Alessandro Frosali: What 

[00:29:59] Nic Warner: [00:30:00] it's 

[00:30:00] Nic Warner: annoying. it's really annoying. and whatever. what serves love is for me to actually just be okay with it. 

[00:30:08] Alessandro Frosali: just understand that the world is filled with interesting and, and wacky people and, 

[00:30:12] Alessandro Frosali: and,

[00:30:13] Alessandro Frosali: you're, you're with one of them.

[00:30:14] Nic Warner: and you are, one

[00:30:15] Nic Warner: of them, 

[00:31:10] Alessandro Frosali: [00:30:30] [00:31:00] and you are one of 

[00:31:10] Alessandro Frosali: them.

[00:31:11] Nic Warner: you are, and this is, Yeah. 

[00:31:12] Alessandro Frosali: Yeah, you've got your own quirks, you've got your own quirks that we all have. Uh, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. What's it like being, um, what's it like being a, a dad, What's, how's that changed your work? How's that changed? What's,

[00:31:26] Alessandro Frosali: what you've, uh, experienced? 

[00:31:28] Nic Warner: Far, man. It's like [00:31:30] having your capacity to to be love, hold love, give love, feel love, extend beyond anything you can ever imagine 

[00:31:42] Alessandro Frosali: Hmm. 

[00:31:43] Nic Warner: simultaneously holding 

[00:31:45] Nic Warner: the potential loss. That, that also brings, which is just this wild concept of the fragility of life. And, 

[00:31:58] Nic Warner: so there's that one thing, and then [00:32:00] you have this, this creature in your arm that you just love more than life itself.

[00:32:05] Nic Warner: You would literally kill and die for Simultaneously, at some point you want to throw him out the window because he's just pressing every single one of your buttons. And, and it's just this incredible reflection moment to moment reflection of like, you know, he is now 15 months old or something. And, uh. He pulls everything out and he rips everything down and he sticks things in and he's just, he's [00:32:30] just this little explorer and he's doing what he's meant to do. And, know, I can feel my father in some of the things that I say, I was talking, ah, it's just, it's just this beautiful, like, oh

[00:32:43] Nic Warner: shit. Oh, did I just say that?

[00:32:46] Nic Warner: But it's. I spoke to a friend recently who, her daughter's a little bit older, and, and she said something really profound around this idea of your own, the way that you criticize and speak to [00:33:00] yourself becomes very obvious when you see your child do it because they, they're just emulating you. So when your child speaks poorly about herself, it's a reflection of you and it's like.

[00:33:12] Nic Warner: Oh, that's what I'm teaching my child, like the way that my son sees me, love my woman. 

[00:33:19] Nic Warner: This is the imprint of masculinity that I'm giving him. The way that his mother is with me is the imprint of the feminine for him, and it's, I've got a lot of [00:33:30] clients. It's like, dude, this is how you're showing up in front of your child.

[00:33:33] Nic Warner: Like this is, this is the type of masculinity you want to teach your kid. Whether it's a boy or a girl, it doesn't matter. So we lead by example and we have this moment to moment reflection of how we could step up and where we need to do more work. Um, and it's just, it's

[00:33:55] Nic Warner: fucking so beautiful and. [00:34:00] Equally as overwhelming. 

[00:34:01] Alessandro Frosali: I 

[00:34:01] Alessandro Frosali: bet. 

[00:34:02] Nic Warner: And we, yeah, we have another one in the way. She's like four months pregnant, so

[00:34:07] Alessandro Frosali: And, uh, I see you had a beautiful engagement video, by the way. I never got to tell you that. Um, that was, that was fantastic. It was fantastic for the viewers out there. You, uh, you must have. Planned it, uh, like the specific spot. Um, it was like by the pyramids in Egypt. You had everything ready and then you put [00:34:30] the camera on like a, it looked like a five times Zoom on an iPhone or something like that.

[00:34:34] Alessandro Frosali: And, uh, and then, um, Sarah, uh, obviously now you are, you're, um, fiance, um, was standing there and then you, you, she had no idea, right? She had no idea. And then, and then what I loved was your, your

[00:34:50] Alessandro Frosali: son then just like ran all the way 

[00:34:51] Alessandro Frosali: to the camera at the end

[00:34:54] Alessandro Frosali: and just 

[00:34:54] Alessandro Frosali: knocked it off the 

[00:34:56] Nic Warner: Yeah. But in those, in those, those glimpses [00:35:00] where it focused on him and then focused 

[00:35:02] Nic Warner: back on us with these, really, it was, it was, it was incredibly 

[00:35:07] Nic Warner: beautiful the way that it turned out. But also kind of like Instagram, it was absolutely not how it was planned. And. 

[00:35:14] Nic Warner: I was at the temple of isis 'cause this is her thing and she loves it. 

[00:35:18] Alessandro Frosali: of 

[00:35:18] Alessandro Frosali: Isis. 

[00:35:18] Nic Warner: I planned everything down to the 

[00:35:21] Nic Warner: absolute tea, like down to the food that we would get. And, 

[00:35:25] Nic Warner: and there were a couple of things that really threw us off course. [00:35:30] Um, it was meant to be the day before something happened. We were meant to go to a different location based on the guidance of our tour guide. It was meant to be completely open and there'd be nobody else there. And all these things happened, which were not according to plan. I could feel my system And then, so it was gonna be the night before and it was gonna be at sunset at the original temple. And um, and we got, we had an argument.

[00:35:57] Nic Warner: And we got into this, this kind of [00:36:00] heated discussion and I was like, fuck, I don't want to do this. And uh, so we waited till sunrise the next morning and, you know, it, it just, it really highlighted, and I kind of knew that this would to some extent happened this way of hold the pose. Like, this is not how it's meant to be.

[00:36:20] Nic Warner: That's okay. Hold the pose. 

[00:36:23] Alessandro Frosali: but that's also how it's supposed to be, 

[00:36:25] Alessandro Frosali: is the fact that 

[00:36:26] Nic Warner: it turned out,

[00:36:27] Nic Warner: you know, I mean people can see it on Instagram, it [00:36:30] turned out to, to just be far greater than I could have ever written myself.

[00:36:34] Alessandro Frosali: How did you, how did you practice what you preached in that moment? What was the things that made you like come back to presence through that? Um, highly stressful thing of like, I wanted to be perfect. Uh, and trying to manage her emotions, knowing that you also then gonna have to get down on one knee in just a

[00:36:54] Alessandro Frosali: moment, and you've got a kid there

[00:36:56] Alessandro Frosali: while traveling. 

[00:36:57] Nic Warner: I have, [00:37:00] I've been working on myself pretty much full time for 10 years, and I've experienced, I've made so many mistakes and I fuck up so often 

[00:37:08] Nic Warner: that there are certain themes. Constantly come back and one of them is trust the process. And so many times in a past life I would've gone, oh, I'll just do it now, and then ruined it. And it's happened so many times that I'm like, no, no, [00:37:30] this is meant, this is the wave that's meant to knock me off course. And it's not going to, oh, there's another one. Okay, this is good. And, you know, contingency plan after contingency plan, but knowing just this is happening exactly the way that it's meant to. Um, and again, back to what we said in the beginning, how would it be if I chose this, how would it be if I chose for the site that we were going to do it the day before if it was meant to be filled with [00:38:00] fucking influencers taking selfies. How, if I chose for that to happen, why would I have done that? Well, I wasn't meant to do it there. Okay, great. How would it be that the guy that told me, he'd picked me up seven o'clock on the dots, so he would get to the place where we were going before everybody else arrived. If he just decided not to turn up because he was busy, it's like, okay, don't get stressed.

[00:38:23] Nic Warner: Just what if I chose that? Well, I'll just ask somebody else to pick us up. It's like, [00:38:30] what if I chose this is is kind of a mantra that you just, it makes everything easy and there's something.

[00:38:36] Alessandro Frosali: you, you, you wouldn't have the stress. The stress is literally just coming from the expectation being destroyed, and, uh, that expectation in that moment has no bearing

[00:38:45] Alessandro Frosali: on what's gonna happen next. 

[00:38:46] Nic Warner: there's something basically just this idea of letting go of control and just trusting that 

[00:38:54] Alessandro Frosali: Mm, 

[00:38:55] Nic Warner: is unfolding the way that it's meant to be, not the way that you want it to be. 

[00:38:58] Alessandro Frosali: I had a, had a client [00:39:00] today, a guy, and we really broke through some big ground, and it was something really pertaining to this, but it wasn't even what he wanted to be. You know,

[00:39:08] Alessandro Frosali: he had this whole thing about what life should be. And he had almost this unwritten contract that because he's been living to how life should be, um, he's so annoyed at the rest of the world and his wife are not living up to the way that the, the, the world should be compared to what he.

[00:39:27] Alessandro Frosali: Said, and, and it, it, it really [00:39:30] opened my eyes towards the end where I just realized we have, we just have this huge internal narrative, every single one of us, like it's this thing that just stops us in every point, this narrative, this, and it could be the should, it could be the expectation of what. What, what could have would've, uh, should have happened.

[00:39:49] Alessandro Frosali: It could be, you know, not being able to sit still, but it's just this dizziness and noise and, and what I'm feeling from, you know, talking to you is, um, [00:40:00] is it's, it's really just about dropping

[00:40:02] Alessandro Frosali: that. It's really just about letting that go. 

[00:40:04] Nic Warner: There's a untethered soul where Michael Singer, there's a chapter where he speaks to this idea of having life exactly the way that we need it, so we're okay, as opposed to being okay with things that are happening and the suffering that we create because things are not the way that we need them to be. And. This is again, masculine practice. Can you sit in [00:40:30] discomfort without it needing to be any different? And just see what happens to your mind. See where the mind goes and like all of the reasons that you've gotta stop it and you should stop it and it's not this sucks and why you're doing this and then blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:40:43] Nic Warner: And it's just the mind, just, but beneath the thought is stillness. And it's this practice of dropping into this consistently. So the next time your woman complains, rather than reacting to the discomfort, you, [00:41:00] you meet the stillness. And that is the thing that is actually going to calm her sooner than you defending or deflecting or fucking whatever. 

[00:41:10] Alessandro Frosali: As soon as you have any type of closed behavior, she's, she's gone. She's gone. Uh, and, and then, and you know what serves love, love is gone too. Everything's gone in that moment. That's brilliant. All right, so if, um. If you had to say one more thing for [00:41:30] everyone, like one thing that we haven't spoken about or um, one thing that you wish everyone understood, what would it be? 

[00:41:37] Nic Warner: I'll throw in something a little cryptic 'cause it was the first thing that I ever heard that had anything to do with men's work. And I didn't under, it took me three years to understand it. And, uh, and once I did understand it, everything

[00:41:52] Nic Warner: shifted. But that was, don't blame your father, you chose him. 

[00:41:59] Alessandro Frosali: I'm gonna [00:42:00] write it down so I can dec gripp this. Don't blame your

[00:42:03] Alessandro Frosali: father. 

[00:42:04] Alessandro Frosali: You chose him. 

[00:42:06] Nic Warner: I mean, it's, it's, you know, 

[00:42:07] Nic Warner: it's once you've been doing this kind of work for a while, it's actually pretty straightforward. But, 

[00:42:13] Alessandro Frosali: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:13] Nic Warner: know, I've met, I've met a lot of, a lot of men that they had some kind of abusive relationship with the father or whatever when they were younger and hate him, don't want anything to do with him. And cannot fathom [00:42:30] any kind of reality where they would've chosen, and this is what I was talking to, this spectrum of healing. It's like, okay, well you can hate him your entire life and hold onto that resentment and completely cut yourself off from healing your lineage and pass on all that pain to your kids. Or you can actually reflect on the possibility that on some grander scheme, your soul chose [00:43:00] for you to have that father to, to learn some lesson that will help you to

[00:43:06] Nic Warner: evolve closer to self-realization. 

[00:43:10] Nic Warner: yeah, 

[00:43:10] Nic Warner: and I, I wouldn't do what I did if, if my father wasn't the way that he 

[00:43:13] Nic Warner: was. 

[00:43:14] Alessandro Frosali: it's,

[00:43:14] Alessandro Frosali: a beautiful, it's beautiful. I, you remind me very clearly of only a few months ago, my mother and I were talking about my grandfather, and I always talk about my father and my grandfather as being like my two dads because. Uh, when I was six, moved [00:43:30] from South Africa to Australia and my dad stayed back in South Africa, but my granddad was in Australia and my granddad was only four years older than my dad.

[00:43:39] Alessandro Frosali: So it felt like I had two dads. Oh, like I had two dads. They both were kind of the same age. One was this Rhodesian ex-military hard, tough man, and the other one was this soft Italian guy who, if you got in a fight, let's just make the other boy's parents some pastor, and everything's okay. My, my grandfather's [00:44:00] like, no, you two gotta fight in a ring until one of you comes out and everything is sorted.

[00:44:04] Alessandro Frosali: So two very different men, and I looked at them both as my fathers. But it's hilarious because, well, not hilarious. Um, I'll preface that 'cause it's about to get a little dark. Uh, a couple of months ago, my grandfather passed away and um, and I was talking to my mother a week before it happened, a week before he passed away.

[00:44:24] Alessandro Frosali: And my mother. Had just like really come to [00:44:30] terms with her father and really come to terms with this heavy, this, this, this tough man. And I said, you know. I don't know where it came from, but this lion came to me in the end. He's played his part in the end, he's played his part. He's done a wonderful job in, in, you know, giving you tough lessons and helped you understand a lot about yourself, mom, and for me, he's done that too and I'm very grateful for him. A week later, he died [00:45:00] randomly and suddenly, and it was just this wonderful thing to be able to move into. You know, that mourning process, but from a space of really accepting him, completely accepting that that was chosen, or not only just chosen, but even if, even if somebody's gonna have an issue with chosen, but you accept, you accept the

[00:45:25] Alessandro Frosali: pathway and what it's

[00:45:26] Alessandro Frosali: given you in your life. 

[00:45:27] Nic Warner: Yeah, Yeah, that's it. [00:45:30] It's that, that acceptance, which lightens the load rather than the resistance to why did it have to be that way?

[00:45:38] Alessandro Frosali: Mm-hmm. 

[00:45:39] Alessandro Frosali: I think anything other than acceptance is this is, is resistance in a way. It's like that's where the shoulds of the expectations come back. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[00:45:47] Alessandro Frosali: it's, life should be this way. It's really beautiful. Nick, really beautiful. I really appreciate you coming on. We're gonna have to do it again 

[00:45:53] Nic Warner: Absolutely, man. Loved it. 

[00:45:54] Alessandro Frosali: All right, man. Take care. 

[00:45:56] Nic Warner: Thank you. 

[00:45:56] Alessandro Frosali: That's the episode. That's all I got for you today. I just want you to remember you're [00:46:00] not alone in this. Make sure you subscribe to stay connected, of course, and comment your win. You know? 'cause every time a man sees other men winning, they don't feel alone anymore, and I love that tools are in the show notes, starting with the better husband in two minute emails.

[00:46:13] Alessandro Frosali: Let's build this together. I'll see you next week.