The Health Hunt: Real Healing Journeys, Everyday Wellness & Expert Tips

Ep 23 - Stuck in Your Symptoms? Where to Begin Your Mind-Body Healing Journey | Hillary Rollins

• Sandi Magder and Daniel Schuman • Episode 23

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If you’ve been living with chronic pain, chronic symptoms, or a nervous system that feels stuck in stress or overdrive, this episode is for you. In Part 3 of our conversation with mind-body coach Hillary Rollins, we move beyond the science and the personal story into the question so many people are asking: how do you actually apply this work in real life?

In Part 1, we explored the neuroscience of chronic pain and how the brain and nervous system can create very real physical symptoms. In Part 2, Hillary shared her personal journey through years of pain, diagnoses, and ultimately finding mind-body healing. This episode is the next step what healing actually looks like in practice.

We talk about:

  • What mind-body coaching is (and how it’s different from therapy)
  • How tools like journaling and nervous system regulation are used
  • Why support, community, and guidance can make a difference
  • Resistance, perfectionism, and the pressure to “do healing right”
  • How coaching helps people move from understanding… to actually doing the work

One of the most important takeaways from this conversation is that healing isn’t about doing everything perfectly. It’s about creating enough safety in your system, over time, for your brain and body to begin to change.

If you’ve ever thought, “This makes sense… but I don’t know where to start,” this episode will help make it feel more possible — and less overwhelming.

Resources Mentioned

Coaching through Break Awake:

Nicole Sachs website:

Book: Mind Your Body by Nicole Sachs

Podcast: The Cure for Chronic Pain by Nicole Sachs

John Sarno

Text us your thoughts, questions, or takeaways. We read every message.

All views, opinions, and commentary expressed on The Health Hunt Podcast are solely those of the hosts. They are shared in a personal capacity and do not represent the views, policies, or positions of any current or former employer, including any organizations with which the hosts may be professionally affiliated.

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Intro: From Understanding to Action (Part 3 with Hillary Rollins

Sandi Magder

Welcome back to the Health Hunt. A human, humble, and sometimes emotional exploration. How to better understand your health. This episode is part three of our conversation with Mind Body Coach Hillary Rollins. In the first episode of the series, which is episode 21 of this podcast, we talked about the neuroscience of chronic pain, how the brain and nervous system can create very real physical symptoms, even when there's no structural issue driving them. And in part two, which is episode 22, Hillary shared her personal story. Years of pain, diagnoses, fear, and ultimately finding a completely different path to healing your mind-body work. And if you listen to those episodes, you might be sitting there thinking, okay, I get it. This makes sense. But what do I actually do with this? Because understanding something intellectually is one thing. But applying it in your own life, when you're in pain, and you're overwhelmed, and your brain is spiraling, is something else entirely. So in this episode, we're getting into the next layer. What does it actually look like in practice? What are the tools? And how does coaching help someone move from knowing to actually healing? If any part of the series has resonated with you, even just a little, this is the episode where things start to become more real, more practical, and honestly, more hopeful. And everybody's favorite part, the display. The Health Hunt Podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only. We're not medical professionals, and nothing shared should be considered medical advice. Always consult your healthcare provider before making changes to your health. All right, let's dig into part three with Hillary.

What Is Mind-Body Coaching & Who Is It For?

Sandi Magder

The last thing I want to get into, we really want you to talk about the coaching work and how that works. Because obviously, again, this is new conceptually to a lot of people. So I'll we'll talk about a few resources. And I also kind of mentioned it, but there is, it's we don't have time to get into it all of it today, but the techniques, there's a few different sort of ways. And one of them in the community that we're in is through a type of journaling. Again, we'll I'll point you, I'll point the listeners to resources where they can learn more about that. It's too much to get into now, but that's one way. And it's it sounds simple or it sounds maybe silly, it's one way of getting out the emotions over time. You don't just sit down and write the most amazing thing and all of a sudden you're better. But it's a way of releasing the emotions that you're repressing that are potentially causing the pain. There's other techniques too about sort of unlearning the fear of the pain. So we like we our favorite word is catastrophizing. And so, like if you have what's known to be a chronic condition and you wake up in the morning, you had something important to do, and your knee is extra sore, you might freak out about it and catastrophize that your whole day is ruined. How are you gonna get through it? And that fear response can create more pain and perpetuate. So there's, you know, again, we're gonna have more episodes where we maybe talk about tools and things like that. So it's probably a little too deep to get into today, but we want people to know that there are actual tools out there for these resources. But so the coaching, and again, you're trained in a very specific type of um sort of methodology about

The Daily Practice: Journaling + Nervous System Regulation

Sandi Magder

this, but I'd love to hear more about how you work with clients and sort of how that all works and and who that might be a good match for. Right.

Hillary Rollins

So um the beautiful thing about this these tools are that um in that and you don't absolutely have to do it with someone. You can work with a book, you can work with audio, you there's a lot of ways to learn them. They're free and they're accessible, and that's my favorite thing about it at at sort of fundamental level. This is a self-directed healing process. Um that said, it's just like I like to say, do you do some people homeschool their children, but most of us send them to school because we learn as much from each other as we do from the book. And um it is because human beings are triggers for our emotions, it's really, really moves things along to have community, support, and somebody who's speaking the same language and can reflect back to you. It's kind of why people do therapy, but it isn't therapy. I'm not a licensed therapist, although a lot of licensed therapists learn these techniques and work with people on this. But I as a coach, I am there to walk through the tools, the work with people. And and that sounds very like, what are you talking about if we know what the tools are? The tools in this approach is a 30-minute practice daily. It's 20 minutes of a certain kind of journaling, which we're not gonna go into in depth here, but it's not what it's not your normal journaling. It's vomiting on the page, it's sort of way of looking at it. It's only between you and you. It's not for keeping or reading back to yourself or others. Of course, you're free to do what you want with it. Sometimes people prefer to keep it, but as a technique, it is about throw blowing your nose in a tissue and throwing it away. At the beginning, at least, for sure. And that's a 20-minute practice, and it helps open up channels for this recovery work in the in the emotional and brain science world piece of it. And then it's followed by a 10-minute uh kind of meditation, uh, which is just that's a wide open what we can describe, what that is, but a simple kind of bring your nervous system back to a place of rest and repair, because journaling can bring up a lot of feelings. That's kind of the point. Um, so that's daily, and people don't need me to do that. What a lot of people need is they have a lot of questions as they go. They need accountability, they want somebody to talk about how it goes for them. Because it's it's just like having a guitar teacher. You can teach yourself the guitar with a book and an audio tape, or you can learn that during the week and then come into your teacher, and your teacher can see, oh, I see you're holding it awkwardly, and it'll be easier, and you'll make that connection to the next chord more easily if we adjust that. And so my coaching practice is people are working with the tools. They're coming to me to have somebody to walk through it with, and then to adjust it as needed. What kind of person needs that is the kind of person who needs that, is my sort of my point. There's no guarantee about what will make somebody's recovery faster or slower, but most people know that if they don't do the work, they're not going to get better, you know, if they don't do something different than they've done before. So the reason you go to a physical therapist or or anybody that you go to is to, you know, most people go to physical therapy and are given exercises that they know how to do. Yeah, they can do

Why Coaching Matters: Support, Accountability & Real-Life Application

Hillary Rollins

them at home. They can do them at home. And then they're told to go do them at home, in fact. But there's still a reason you go in every week or every other week or whatever your your treatment plan is. So that's sort of coaching is the link between what we're teaching and how we're implementing it in our lives. Some people don't need it. I I think old people need people, you know, and community and feedback and understanding and all the pe all the things. And coaching can uh facilitate a lot of the stuff that, and you know you're the kind of person you're also paying some money. I I used to go to dance class. If I bought a $50 card of lessons, I was gonna use them up, you know.

Sandi Magder

Yeah, well, there's it's like going to the gym sometime. Well, they'll except you pay that every month and you forget that you paid it. And so that's but I think there's also potentially for some people, I know people like accountability. I don't, for me, that creates extra pressure. I kind of need it. Like I want to put it out there here. Like, I know about all this work and I have done it on and off. I'm not currently doing the journal. I feel like the imposter syndrome of even saying this out loud. Like I'm not journaling right now. There's a bunch of things I know I am unquoting should. I know I shouldn't should on myself, but you know, that

Resistance, Perfectionism & “Doing It Wrong”

Sandi Magder

there's a dynamic there between knowing what work would be helpful and beating myself up for not doing it. So that's a whole other episode, probably 17 different episodes.

Hillary Rollins

I'm gonna step in as a coast coach and guest and tell you you're forgiven. Okay, thank you. And you're not doing it wrong. And that is all part of it. I will be in full disclosure, um, you know, I don't know how many years I've been with Nicole. I've only been a coach for her since she started the coaching program, which is like November. And I did the Son of Sack Solution, which was the training for the coaches. It's a good program about a year ago. And but before that, I'd been to the Omega, which is a retreat center where she has teaches and stuff like that. I mean, I've been doing this on and off. I cannot tell you, Santi, how long it took me to actually do journal speak. I would come back again and again going, This this is brilliant. I want to devote my life to doing this. I had so much resistance. Yeah.

Sandi Magder

And that's that's another part of the mind-body work is the resistance. So that's again, I will have a whole other episode.

Hillary Rollins

Right. So I'm just sort of affirming your thing of like saying that this is a way of understanding yourself and it's a tool you pick up. And as soon as it creates more, if like again, to answer how does it work for a coach? Some people, I don't ask for accountability because I know that they're perfection. Yeah. And that's gonna push their buttons. So it's also very personalized. It's you meet the person where they are, you say, How can I be of help and of service? Because ultimately, it's like any other teaching. You want them to get better at it than you. Yeah.

Sandi Magder

And I think there is a there's a level of it that like being able to ask, like show up every week and stuff came up, and you know you can ask them questions so you don't panic about it, or even sometimes it's almost like holding a mirror up because they might come in and say, I've never been angry, I never felt sad. And that's a red flag, right? Because that means they were, they probably were someone when they were four years old, say said you can't have a temper tantrum, anger is a bad thing, it makes you a monster. And they've held it in since then. And so sometimes when someone comes in saying, I don't have any of these things, you need to hold the mirror up to them and start going down that. Well, why do you feel that way? And and bringing that out. And I think some people, probably those who have a lot of things buried and repressed, might need that. And obviously in a gentle way, and as a coach, you have to know the best way to bring that out. But I think some people definitely need to have someone guide them through certain things.

Hillary Rollins

I don't

The 3 Pillars of Healing: Awareness, Practice & Self-Compassion

Hillary Rollins

want to leave that out because I think it's such a beautiful thing, is that this work works for everyone because everyone's a human. There's three legs of the stool that put the stool in place, and they cannot stand without all three legs. One is this understanding of what's actually happening, this awareness, this pain science and brain science. Two is doing the journal speak and the and the doing the practice that takes care of your reservoir that is up to here and about to bubble over and threaten you. You're ladling it out little by little. That's what the journal speak practice does. And it just lowers the reservoir. You don't have to get rid of it all. You just have to lower it enough for the alarm to go off, right? And third is patience and kindness for yourself. Yeah. Oh my God, it sounds so simple. But this is where I find most people are tricked up, including myself. Yep. And it's really where resistance lives. If you're in a lot of pain and all you have to do is spend half an hour a day doing this and you know you're gonna live without this terrible pain for many, many years to come, it doesn't seem like it should be so hard. And yet it is. Because the it's part of your brain's protection to keep you from doing what will make you feel better. And that is the ninja, the let go part that is very hard to wrap your brain around at first. And that's where having somebody to walk through it with can be really great because you you don't have that perspective until you do. And everybody who's coached in Nicole's program, she'll only onboard people who've already done, you know, been down the paths, all the paths. So they know I uh my path isn't your path, but the path is the path, and I've walked it. And it's a lived experience, a lot of this, because the way you learn, the way your brain starts to give up the alarm is that it gets the feedback that you're safe and it doesn't know that you're safe until it's lived experience of safety.

Sandi Magder

Yeah. Sometimes you need someone to tell you that or to point it out. Or even though, you know, they're wins. Sometimes you might think that there's no progress, but someone who's been on the journey with you can help you see that. And then that gives you a context. If you realize that you actually had some wins, then it's like, oh, maybe something is working, and it's enough for you to kind of keep going down the path. So and we say let your body be your proof. Yeah. It's let me so I just because we keep mentioning Nicole Sachs.

Resources & Where to Start (Nicole Sachs + Coaching)

Sandi Magder

So just for context, um, Nicole, like Hillary, was actually a patient of John Sarno. She had a similar condition, back pain, years of that. Worked with him, and then eventually, I think I don't know the timing, but she is also a licensed therapist and she began to work with him. So I know that this has sort of been her life's work for 20 plus years. She's an extensive advocate for all of it. She's created her own programs. I mean, she's a mentor for both of us. And so, just as a point of resource, if somebody wants to learn a little bit more about the work, she has a book called Mind Your Body, which goes through a lot of the science. It really goes through sort of all of the things that she thinks are the helpful tools. She also has a podcast that she's been doing for years, and it's called The Cure for Chronic Pain. And so that, if you're looking for real life recovery stories, that is where you should go because it goes through everything from people having things like lawn COVID that you would never think is mind-body related. I keep mentioning because I was shocked when I heard about this, like, you know, dry eye, watery eye, dry mouth, like any weird thing that you can think of, there is a story on there of somebody who's recovered. And there's also other podcasts of people, you know, who are in this type of work. And I just, if it's something that you're exploring, hearing those stories, I think is really that first key to even having that. Like we talked about the book cure. So maybe it's the podcast cure. Maybe somebody is feeling better from listening to us right now. That would be wonderful. But I think that that is a really good starting point to allow to sort of the paradigm shift of allowing your brain to believe that maybe it's not the structural thing that you were told. And actually, her last episode that I was listening to right before we got on her was about autoimmune diseases. And that's the one that I connect with because I worry sometimes that I have joint pain or that I believe I have joint pain and that's going to hold me back. I've had some success with my back when I realized that there was emotional things behind it. But for whatever reason, I'm afraid and there's a resistance component that other things maybe can't be healed. And so I toy with that. So hearing an episode obviously about autoimmune conditions was very helpful. So I there's something for everyone, and that's just a great free resource to go to. And if you're looking, you know, for a coach like Hillary hat, um, we'll put this in the show notes, but how do they get involved in the coaching program?

Hillary Rollins

Um, it's on Nicole's website, which is yourbreakawake.com. And uh they have a just hit on coaches tab. Yeah. And right now they would it's a there's a free uh intake, 20-minute call to see if it's a good match. And if you are interested, you can check that out. Um and then if you decide to sign up for coaching, they would uh assign you with a coach based on what you'd fill out on your intake. Um it's such a small program right now. It's a pretty new program, but they're they're really working hard to find the right match for the for the people. Um and they're small enough still that they can sort of hands-on do that. That said, you're not stuck with someone if it's not working. Um and so if they wanted me specifically.

Sandi Magder

That's really where I I mean, if they heard this and they loved you, and I can't imagine how they wouldn't convey your wealth of knowledge and be your delightful and entertaining. And uh and but also you really know your stuff. Like this is not just, you know, you you can tell a good story. I mean, I think I I would choose to work with you. And so how did are they able to request you directly? Can they email you?

Hillary Rollins

At this point, I think they absolutely could. Um because there's in the in tech forum they said what you know, some questions about her. And you could say, I heard Hillary Rollins, if she's available, I think we'd be a good fit. And that they I don't see any reason why they wouldn't. Uh okay, perfect. And but beyond that, I just want to say that, you know, we're it is an incredibly talented and diverse group of coaches, including um sort of age and uh this is an international thing too. I don't know. I I know, Dan, I've heard you say for all three of our listeners, but you're gonna be big, I promise.

Sandi Magder

We're in 16 countries. I mean, there might be one listener in some of those countries, but we are actually in, I keep track of this. This gets me very excited. I think there's a new listener in Madrid's brain, so shout out to them.

Hillary Rollins

And and one of the great things is that this work has analogs all over the world. There's a lot of the research, and the scientists and the practitioners are in the UK, are in Australia, are in Israel, are in Europe. Um and for me, that gives it a lot of, I don't know, I like that. It's like a lot of credibility, a lot of people doing this together and and seeing results. Um I need it all. I needed listening to all the podcasts.

Sandi Magder

I needed, I mean, no, I no, I binged. I started, I started from the first one and I worked my way through. I don't know, I'm maybe halfway through. Sometimes I go to the newer ones if it's if it's something I really want to hear. But I started from day one and it was like six or seven years ago.

Hillary Rollins

Yeah, I actually drove cross-country alone and put Nicole on as the first thing and said, that's it. I'm good, me and Nicole are driving cross-country and I listened to eight hours a day. It was amazing. So, you know, everybody can pursue this in their own way in that time. You certainly don't have to be a nerd like I am. Oh, well, yay for nerds.

Sandi Magder

I mean, we're here for that. And I just want to say too, I mean, again, this is new information, and I also kind of collect a lot of resources. And so if somebody wants to hear more, if this was maybe overwhelming and they just need a little bit more of a takeaway, please email us at infothealthhunt.com and I would be happy to share more information. Again, we'll put stuff in the show notes, but it's such a vast area of research and tools and, you know, potential books to read or people to listen to. And so we don't want anyone to get overwhelmed. But if you're looking for lists of resources or just sort of where to start, or if you've got questions, you know, I'm I'm happy to answer those. I mean, I'm sure Hillary probably could answer some of those too. This is just about at this stage bringing this to light because it's just not something that people go through their day thinking about and they may be living with chronic conditions that they could resolve. And so feel it feels it feels like a disservice not to share.

unknown

I agree.

SPEAKER_00

I can definitely not answer any of your questions, but I'm really good at forwarding them to Sandy or Hillary. I can be really good at that. But don't come to me for any of this. I'm still learning and listening.

Hillary Rollins

Yeah. Well, we invite you, Dan, to to um see if you find what you're looking for here.

SPEAKER_00

Of course. That's why I'm here. I'm listening, I'm learning.

Hillary Rollins

I know it's it's I mean, it's just also an incredible thing to be part of something that you go, my life makes so much more sense now that I understand this than it did when I was struggling with all the disparate pieces of the health hunt, you know? And I just want to say that, you know, scientists for years, if you're interested in any of that kind of, you know, the idea of what consciousness is or isn't is still the big question, right? Um, and the other thing is that just the idea that storytelling, like everything in our universe, is processed in our human experience through what we're doing now. It's story, it's making, it's making connections of one thing on top of another. I just think that it's incredible that it's spreading this way, like hand to hand.

Sandi Magder

Well, and can you know this from like again, there is a community that Nicole runs as well. And that community, and I see people post on Facebook, it's incredibly supportive. People go on there and it's a space where they feel like they can be open and they share very deep, dark things that they're struggling with, and people provide feedback. And so I know from different things that having that community, and I even know, you know, when we when I put

Community, Healing & Final Reflections

Sandi Magder

out the episode where I told my story, I had people that I haven't spoken to in years reach out and say, you know, I've been dealing with certain things, and I just from hearing that, I feel less alone. And if that's that's an incredible starting point. I mean, it's like that with grief. I recently had a dog pass away, and the thing that helped me the most is the community of people who I'm close with that also have dogs that have experienced similar things or that I know I can talk to with it. Because with chronic pain, I've talked about too, it's isolating. I don't go around telling people every day everything hurts. It just like that's nobody wants to hear that. That's no one would want to be around me. But that's the reality. And so I think when you have a community of people that you can be open with, some of holding that in is the burden that may be creating some of the pain, right? That's sounds somewhat counterintuitive, but like that's the thing that's potentially holding you back is the not releasing how you feel about how you feel. And so I think community.

Hillary Rollins

Yeah, and a huge amount of this healing is counterintuitive. In fact, it's kind of to me, one of the things I help people with is like looking for the opposite of. Of what they they think is happening because usually when you lift, look under the hood there, it's the thing you're looking away from. Um there's a reason why you're looking away. And so if you just lift and look under the hood and let the scary monster out, it's not so scary after all, right?

Sandi Magder

Yeah, it's like turning the lights on when you think there's a monster in your closet. You turn on the lights and you see there isn't. And so it's this work is very much like that. So I just I'm so grateful for you for coming on and sharing your wisdom and and and your journey and your story. And this is something, again, when we talked about doing this podcast, like this was the message that I wanted to get out there. And I appreciate you coming on and helping us with that. And it's I just really, really grateful. And I'm this was a delicious for me conversation. I hope the listeners learned a lot and there will be more of this because it's just important work. So thank and thank you for what you're doing. And I I know that you're helping a lot of people, and just that's you know, I think I've said or you know, recently or in my episode that like I want my pain to have a purpose. Yeah. And so, you know, again, it sounds a little cheesy, but it's it's it's a paying it forward thing. And I know that the coaches in this realm, and especially in the one that you're in, it's it's it's that for them, a lot of them.

Hillary Rollins

So it is, it's a calling because we're so grateful that we've been relieved of something that seemed uh like we couldn't find relief from yeah. So thank thank you, thank you. I mean, and uh anytime, I mean all my friends and families like they wanted her to talk about all that stuff.

Sandi Magder

You're welcome back anytime. There's we could talk about a thousand different things. So I think we might have to. I'm I'm happy for you to come back and get nerdy with us and go deeper on some of the science because I would love it.

Hillary Rollins

I would love it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00

Awesome, thank you so much.

Hillary Rollins

Thank you. That I can be here doing this today given where I yeah, that I saw Sarno 40 years ago and did not know that this day would be this day, and here I am in this way. It's so different, and life is just um when you do this work and you get out of pain, you also get this opportunity to be aware of the stuff the opposite of pain, the love, the the con the the ease as opposed to the dis-ease. Because I think I was living, you know, so most we all are. We're living most of our life in a state of dis ease. Yeah. The more we get to that place where it's like, what if it was just a little easier? What if it's just what if it's not so hard and not so hard on yourself and not so hard on your story, and then you stuff happens and you're like, it's a life is like a miracle. Yeah.

Sandi Magder

But I'm here to be doing this with you. So I that sounds really cheesy. No, no, but it's it's important, and I think you that's a mindset that that is helpful.

Hillary Rollins

And I'm it's mindset that yeah, that I think you come to when you walk through walk through, yeah, you know. So thank you for the opportunity, and let's do it again.

Sandi Magder

We want to give another huge thank you to Hillary for this conversation, and honestly, for the work that she's doing. I think what's really powerful about this episode and this whole series is that it gives people something they don't always get when it comes to chronic pain or chronic symptoms, which is hope paired with direction. Not just this might be possible, but here's how you start. And if you're listening to this and something clicked for you, even if it's just a small moment of, wait, could this apply to me? That matters. That's usually how this begins. If you want to explore this work more, we're going to put all of the resources we mentioned in the show notes, including how to learn more about Hillary's coaching and where to start if this feels new or overwhelming. And if you're sitting there thinking, I don't even know where to begin, that is okay too. You can reach out to us at infothealthhunt.com. We read everything and we're really happy to point you in the right direction or share what's helped us. And if this episode or this series has resonated with you, send it to someone. Because chances are you know someone who's dealing with something they haven't been able to figure out. And this might be the thing that helps them feel a little bit less alone. As always, if you haven't already, make sure you're following the show, and if you feel called to, leave us a rating or review. It helps more people find these conversations. Thanks for being here with us, and we'll see you next time on the Health Hunt.