From Mom to Marketing Maven: Milana Thornton's Journey

Summary

In this engaging conversation, Milana Thornton shares her transformative journey from being a stay-at-home mom to becoming a digital marketing expert specializing in SEO and AI visibility. The discussion covers the basics of SEO, the impact of AI on marketing strategies, and the importance of continuous learning and adaptation in the ever-evolving digital landscape. Milana emphasizes the need for businesses to embrace AI tools and stay consistent in their marketing efforts to thrive in today's competitive environment. The conversation also highlights the significance of community and support among women in tech and entrepreneurship.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi, welcome back to the Grind Design. This is Mandy Henriadwit and Michael Walters here visiting with a new guest. We're super excited to have. As you know, we tend to find people who are building businesses from all sorts of industries. And Melena was introduced to me recently, and I'm so fascinated by what she's doing. I think it actually plays into all of our businesses, and we can't wait. I'm going to let Melena introduce herself and kind of give us a glimpse of what her journey has been from where she started her own gig, because I know that the current thing is not where she started, and how she ended up where she is. So, Melena, take it away. Awesome. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Yeah, I find that that's kind of the story for most people, is not exactly where they thought they would be. So I'm yeah, uh, I'm a mom of five kids, actually. And uh that was just gonna be my my gig was was you know being mom to those five kids. Um, about 17 years into that, I uh needed to get a job. And life just has a way of doing that sometimes, turning it upside down. Uh, I ended up at Boostability, which is just a local um SEO company here in Utah over there at Thanksgiving Point. Uh, they're actually a huge white label SEO company and um fell in love with SEO, which was really, really that's a crazy thing to say. There's not very many people that are like, oh, I love SEO. But um, you know, I for me it was more about just being able to help uh business owners. When I got into that, I was close to 40 years old. I'd had a couple of small businesses uh with my husband, and so I looked at it a little bit differently. It wasn't just about keywords on a page. And um anyway, I just dove in headfirst and learned everything that I possibly could about marketing and digital marketing, um, SEO, just ways to become uh visible uh online. And uh so I was there for a little while. I went on to um be an SEO director at uh another agency here in Utah for a while before I um started my own digital marketing agency. Um and a couple years into that, just was using AI more and more to help my clients um just in different ways, and found myself learning everything I possibly could about uh AI automations and um got into coding quite a bit and again found myself in a place just where I never thought I would be, and um I got really curious one day about how AI, Chat GPT was going to affect the SEO world. Um and uh it just actually I was listening to a podcast and and somebody said, There's nothing out there, there's no case studies, there's nothing on this yet. And so I just started building out in the open on LinkedIn, uh using my fairly new website to see what was possible, and went to my husband and I said, Oh, I'm I'm I'm changing, I'm pivoting again. We're going back to SEO, um SEO with AI, and because I just my phone was ringing off the hook and people were asking me questions, and I went, okay, this is this is really exciting. This is kind of a fun new place to be in. Um, and uh so that's what I've been doing ever since is is uh navigating changes every single day, but uh AI visibility, which a lot of people got a lot of names right now. So AIO and AEO, GEO, you hear it being called all kinds of things. So uh so yeah, so that's what I do now. Um I help uh businesses uh just become visible in all of the different AI tools. Um and then I have a business partner and we're actually building a uh a platform for businesses to be able to use just because a um AI visibility is a lot more complicated now than than SEO was. So uh so we're releasing that in the new year as well. So definitely not where I started, but it is where we're at now.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

So I heard the funniest example that listening to you, it just reminds me of this. I heard this this week. Listening to your story, I'm like, that is exactly what you've been doing. They were they were talking about like as you are trying to figure out your path, like picture being out hiking, right? And you're trying to cross a stream and you're standing on a rock trying to figure out which rock is your next rock, and you reach out a toe and you go, okay, which one is kind of stable? And then you go to that, and then you have a new set of rocks, and you're just constantly picking that next way forward. And that just feels like the story that you're telling us. Yeah, it has been a lot like that, that is for sure. Yeah, like when you're on one side of that river, you had no pl no specific idea of where you're gonna land, but yeah, yeah, it kind of presents itself as you go.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

No, I I was boxing at the time and that I needed to find a job, and um one of my friends at boxing, she said, I'm being promoted. Why don't you come and I'll get you an interview? And she, I said, Well, what is it that you even do? I have no idea. And she goes, Um, I help people with their websites. I do SEO. And I was like, What language are you speaking to me right now? I have no idea what you're talking about. I was an art major in college, okay. I'm a photographer, so I was just lost. I Googled SEO before I went to my interview. No joke. Like I had no idea what it was. And and they were awesome. It's a was a great place to work and and learn and you know, so but it is. It is a slippery slope of character just taking the next slide.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

If there's in case there's people listening who don't know, right? Like we we have a following that is everything from like you know, the one man, you know, handyman to you name it, right? What is SEO and why does it matter?

SPEAKER_02 6:33

So search engine optimization is is SEO and what that is, because even that doesn't make sense to a lot of people if they're not familiar. Um, so when you go to Google and you are searching for something, whether it's an answer to a question or a problem or you're looking for a business, you know, many of most people have Googled something. So uh traditionally what would happen is it would bring up the 10 links to websites. Sometimes at the top there would be ads, you know, and and a lot of times people skip over that because they know that they're ads. Um, and then you would have to go and try and find your information by going to the different websites. So, what what SEO is is you're optimizing, you're you're doing all of the right things to your website to show up on that first page of Google. Um, and and what that would look like is you would go into certain tools that are provided by Google and do like keyword research. So uh so maybe you're a plumber in Lehigh. You would a keyword would be, you know, plumber Lehigh Utah, right? Um that would be a very uh hard to get on the first page uh keyword. So there are kind of different levels of keywords. Uh so if you were just getting started at this, you would go towards the longer tell keywords, um, which sometimes would be formed in like a like a question, an entire question. Uh and we would go for those keywords in the beginning because it's quite a long process to get on that first page of Google, especially if you're in an industry or you're trying to rank for something that is is highly competitive. So um, you know, at the very least, you're looking at six to 12 months to try and get onto that first page, just for those um not so competitive keywords. So yeah, so so that's what SEO is.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Whoever goes to the second page, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:46

Right. I mean, traditional right, no, none of us do.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

So it really is extremely valuable because nobody's going past the first page.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

Exactly. Yeah, yep. Yeah, and so there's different things that you can do. Google has all of these rules, you know, they were are kind of king of of that. And so you follow Google's rules and and uh put the right kind of content onto your website and structure things the right way. Uh, and so that's what people that are in SEO, that's what they do, is is help you with that process. And it's the whole thing is called uh organic marketing, right? So there's different things that you can do that are not organic, like the paid ads, and you're gonna see in results in those a lot quicker. Uh, but uh this is kind of a long game type situation because it doesn't really cost you a whole lot to get on that first page and then stay on that first page by uh following those rules and just making sure that you're you're showing up. So so it's a it's a good sturdy, you know, marketing tool for you.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

So okay, so now we the audience, we all know now what SEO is, right? And and the importance. Um and that's all I ever heard for the past 10 years is SEO, SEO, uh you know, AdWords, whatever. So now you talked about uh the term I most know is GEO, but there's plenty of names for that. So it catches up to speed in as easy of understanding for the people listening of okay, what that is, and maybe then what the difference is between that and SEO.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

Yeah, so I I'm I'm gonna refer to it as AI visibility because to me that's just kind of packaging everything up together, makes it a little bit more simple. Uh but as most of us know, now that we have Chat GPT or Claude or Perplexity, we have these different places that we can go and ask questions instead of Google. Google has their own AI as well, and we'll kind of touch on that as well. But um, you know, you're getting the answers immediately, right? So say you go and you use that same key, maybe you're looking for an HVAC specialist. So HVAC Murray in Murray, Utah. You put that in, and ChatGPT is now not going to give you websites that you have to go to. It's actually gonna pull up uh people, you know, that do HVAC in Murray, right? And it's going to give you those directly. Um, maybe you don't know the answer to your question that you have. So you're kind of trying to figure out some information. Um, you know, maybe you have a soccer player son and his arch on his foot is hurting, but you don't really know why. So you start with a question trying to discover what this is. Along that journey of asking questions to Chat GPT, at some point in time it's gonna give you some solutions, uh, whether it's a product or maybe a doctor that you can go and see for that uh issue that your son's having. So you're not having to dig around anymore through websites, you're not having to go and find the answers yourself. Uh AI is giving those right to you. So, how this is affecting SEO is how do you how does your business show up now in those answers that uh AI is giving? So that's what AI visibility is. I mean, that's the goal that businesses have for AI visibility because it's different than SEO now. People are just, in fact, it's over 60% now of people that they're just not clicking on links anymore uh and going to Google. It's it's it's really starting to change the way that people are searching because it's just it's just easier. It's better answers for all of us.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Like I'm so guilty of it, right? Like I'll get on and be like, I'll describe my family, what they like to do, and be like, I'm looking for a place to go. Find me a place and find me activities, right? Like it's so interesting the life that we're now living with AI.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

It's almost as if it, I don't think it is, it it actually has changed as a business owner, like sort of the rules of engagement. That's how I'm taken. Am I wrong there?

SPEAKER_02 13:27

You are so this is the part that I just geek out about. So one of the things that made me fall in love with SEO and digital marketing was the people, right? So these are we're all business owners, right? When we're trying to show up in these places. Um, these are the things that we're passionate about, whatever we're we're selling or we're doing, whatever service we're offering. And with AI, a lot of people start to get nervous, right? Oh, it's gonna take away the human layer of things and it's you know coming for our jobs and all of those kinds of things. But where AI visibility is concerned, I truly believe that what it's going to do is force all of us to get to know the people that we're trying to reach, the people that we're trying to serve, um, the customers and clients that we want to have. It's making us get to know them really, really well. Uh, because we need to know what kind of questions they're asking. And uh we can't just guess. It's not about keywords anymore. It's it's really about finding out who those people are. And um, and now we get to use AI to help us do that. So it's you know, it's win-win. We've we just uh it makes things a little bit more complicated, but at the end of the day, it really is going to um connect us. So you're you're spot on with that.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

So yeah, so it's such a fun, it's such a fun item to play with. But I'm curious because you said you were an art major. You thought you were gonna stay home, raise kids? Yeah. You did that for a good long time. Your kids were not super young when you came into the workforce again. What has that learning process been like? Because certainly you have stepped into an arena that had nothing to do with your educational background, right? Like, what is that journey and where like where did you learn? What were the tools that you were using to make that? Because it that is an absolute transformation or a rate redefining who you are at the moment. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Um, so it was um hard because traditionally, right, in our minds, we go, okay, well, we we need to go back to school, right? We need to, you know, I mean, I was terrified. I would be lying to you if I if I said otherwise, because I was like, I am, you know, where? I've been a stay-at-home mom for 17 years and I studied photography in and in the pre-digital photography, right? So I'm back in film. So where am I gonna get a job that uh, you know, actually does something? So um, you know, you just it it it I'm a very right-brained person and very artistic. Um being able to be creative, which I feel like this space really allows me to do. Um, so it feeds something in me. And and and AI even does that. Like we're able to really explore all of these ideas and things that we have, even if it's just a little bit of a spark of an idea, we can kind of go down that road and see. But you just have to just kind of I started with even just YouTube. Um, so I went home, I would be trained at work on things. Um, and I kind of knew that I was falling in deep when I would come home and we were like, I was like talking about it at dinner, like all of these things that I learned. Um, but uh, you know, I would get certifications. There's so many of the different places that you can do them now with Udemy, and um, there's a few others, uh, and they're always putting like discounts and and deals. So I did quite a few of those certifications. Uh, YouTube was just like heaven for me. So that's how I learned uh to build and design websites. Uh when we were all were sent home during COVID. Uh, that's just I took all of any free time that I had, and that's well, it's usually like late at night in the middle of the night, um, and learned. But there's so many resources now where uh you don't necessarily have to go back to school. And there's just so much out there now that you can really learn from. And then maybe you find, okay, wait, I do really love this, and then you go and and further your education on it, or you get certified in it, or something like that. But um, you know, we kind of have just all of these different ways to be able to learn now just from home.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

So I joke all the time that you can learn anything from YouTube, but I didn't really mean it, apparently. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

Well, what I think the the really cool part of this story is that so many other people that we either have known or have talked to um are they're waiting for the perfect moment, they're waiting for this to happen, right? And what I love about your story is you're like, no, no, no, no, I've got these resources, and you're just plugging in and taking advantage of what is there. And the cost of entry for these things has dramatically come down.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Yeah. It's just willingness, right? Curiosity.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

That's just it. The people that are listening, I mean, if you've got ambitions to do X or Y, I mean, you don't have to, you just have to be curious enough to go to your point and take that first step in the river. Because it's all there.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Yeah. Yes. But it's so funny because you're so fun because you like you light up when you start talking about this, like you light up. You can tell that you feel passionate about this thing.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

Yeah, yeah. I well, I think that, you know, especially, you know, I got married really young, right? And um and I had kids, life just happens. You just can't plan for everything. And um, I come, my mom was a single mom and she was a school teacher. And I think that I talk to a lot of women actually that kind of end up in that same situation of, well, they had kids, they never graduated from college. Then they end up in a situation where they feel like, okay, well, I and and again, like I love teachers, I love the education, you know, I'm not bashing, but it's not for everyone, right? Not everyone wants to become an aide at their kids' school or something like that. But I think that a lot of times that's kind of the situation that that people that that we're put in is okay, these are our options.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

And often that wouldn't provide enough income to do, I you know, these days you need a financial lift in a family.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

That's yeah. And now it's like money, it's not going to actually support a family.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Exactly. Yeah. So, but you're right. There's just so much out there right now that I just don't even think that um I think sometimes we kind of box ourselves in, you know. And um, I'm part of a few communities. My my business partner is actually over in in London, and um she's 64 years old. She's been in tech for 30 years. She's just absolutely incredible. And we met in an online community um and just had a random conversation one day. Actually, I was kind of being passionate about, you know, introducing AI and tech to women, this this very similar conversation. Um, and that's how we connected. And now we're part of uh a couple of communities of of women um that are just trying to do this same thing, you know, because there's not very many of us out there. And there's so many different things that you can do with it, you know, like it doesn't have to be marketing, it doesn't have to be websites or or SEO or anything like that. Um, you know, it can be helping businesses incorporate AI into uh their business safely, um, you know, and kind of navigating that new world and and things like that. That's just it's it's endless the possibilities, even security, you know, different things like that. So um it's actually gonna open up a lot of doors, I think.

SPEAKER_01 21:59

That's amazing. I uh because it's just one pivot after another, right? And what you're saying is I'm looking for it, and there's like twenty other ways we could pivot should we decide to do so.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

Yes. Yeah. You just kind of have to keep your eyes open and you know, be open to whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

So yeah, you just uh what you just said was where I was gonna go in terms of being open, because you know, like you and I have talked about our kids, like they're not, at least at least my kids aren't, they're not they're not really big on AI for whatever reason. And I think a lot of people look at AI and just they think um, you know, it's one-dimensional, yet there's so many, um, so many ways that AI is being um used in businesses and in school governments now. Uh education up the U has its own GPT platform, stuff like that. I think right now is a great time to immerse yourself and get curious about AI. Well, I don't know if I'm right or wrong. I guess I'll find out, but I think those that don't embrace it, I think, are gonna be really lagging. I think they'll really be lagging.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Yeah, I don't think AI is gonna take over. Let's talk about that because that right, that's everybody's big scare. It's like AI is just gonna take. I don't think AI is gonna take over. I just think it's going to become the most valuable tool we can use. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

I mean, yeah, I so I have I have ADHD. A lot of people are like, oh, really? I couldn't tell. I'm like, yeah, it's just this conversation alone, right? Um, I didn't find out until I was 40 years old. You know, I was a really good student. I, you know, found my little workarounds of how I could do things. But I use AI because I always am having ideas. I think where people fail with AI is they get in, they maybe test it once, they ask it a question, they don't like the output or the answer that it's it's giving, and they kind of go, yep, that's what I thought. You know, AI is not for me or whatever. Um, but uh you have to get creative with it. If you have, you know, ideas that are kind of just floating in the back of your head, explore it with it, see what can be done.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

It's recorded so you can go back somewhere for that because I I hear you. I was a same great, great student, but I am absolutely ADD. Yeah. Um and yeah, then you can go back and go, what was that thing? Right? You have like some basis to go back. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

Yeah, yeah. And there's tools out there now, even within so Claude. Claude is my favorite AI tool. Um, if anybody else is a Claude.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

I have not used it, but I use Claude, but love it.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

Yeah, it's phenomenal. Uh so just to give you an example of something that I do. So um, have you used Claude Code yet? I have not. Okay. So uh if you um download Claude Code and actually now if you have a subscription to Claude, uh like a monthly subscription, you can actually use Claude Code just within the web, like just on the web page. Um, but you can build yourself your own little agent. So uh one of the things that I do for myself, I love to journal, I love to, you know, um write down all my ideas, all these things, right? So every single night before I go to bed, uh I have a little conversation with my Claude agent. It records it, it puts it into my little notion uh notes organizer. And then every seven days it comes back to me and it says, you know, this was this was all the things that you got done this week, you know. Hey, here's a reminder of one of the things that you put that you wanted to work on. And and uh, you know, so I took a a struggle of mine that obviously is like staying organized and kind of keeping my thoughts organized, my ideas organized, and and uh created something with AI that um then comes back and it and it kind of gives me this reminder, you know, once a week of hey, you were gonna work on this or um had a really good week. So, so yeah, I mean, and you can with this with Cloud Code, you can just have a conversation with it. You don't have to know how to code. Um, it can walk you through the process of of building something like that for you.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

I drive my husband crazy because and I actually learned this from my my 17-year-old is all about the AI, but I actually named mine. So I talked to him like he's a person, and we end up in these conversations that are just fantastic. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. It's so funny that like you say that because they do start to kind of they they they're keeping track of the data, right? They're they remember certain things that you said you liked or cared about, and they start catering to that.

SPEAKER_02 27:06

Yeah, yeah. If you have a business, Claude is fantastic. It has projects just within like the regular Claude subscription, uh, which then it's gonna remember everything within that project. You can kind of train it and and uh um, you know, like it's great if you're doing something for your website or for your podcasts, right? It can it can remember everything in there. So uh yeah, Claude is is a fantastic tool and runner up to that is try that.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

I mean, for Claude Claude for me, I have not gone as far as creating an agent in Claude and you know incorporating Notion. What I use Claude for is I'll give uh it's really good at taking data and helping you formulate good um visuals, right? If I'm trying to get something across to clients, right? Yeah. Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:57

Fantastic. Yeah, absolutely. Yes, yeah. Uh perplexity is fantastic too. That's my runner-up. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Is there anything on that one that makes it that sets it apart in a different way?

SPEAKER_02 28:10

So perplexity for me is really good about research. Uh, that's the one that I use for uh researching anything, it's going to give you all of the assets and create tables and things like that. Uh, so I'll actually use Claude and Perplexity uh hand in hand often. Um, if I'm, you know, researching um content that I want to write or something like that. I actually have Claude write me the prompt to then take over to perplexity and use. Sometimes I feel like they're, you know, gonna get mad at me for using both. But uh but yeah, I use those two hand in hand.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Uh I think perplexity, because I use per perplexity all the time. Yeah, if I have a question, Lana's point, like it's I think it's better and it's certainly faster than Google when it comes to giving you an answer. It is. And so on my phone, yeah, like if I'm doing research, I just go straight to the perplexity app because it's it gives you that much faster.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, and it'll send you just right to the right place. So yeah, yeah. So much fun. I know there's so much good stuff out there. So um, yeah, and one thing to keep in mind with all of the being visible for your business and things like that is is a weird one out there right now, but uh, but Reddit. So uh perplexity, um, even Google, they're they're pulling from Reddit. So uh I don't know really anybody who enjoys being on Reddit, aside from like if you're Googling something and the answer comes up and it's just exactly for what you're looking for.

unknown 29:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

But uh as a business owner, it is a really good place to start getting involved and and uh and be on. And and again, it goes back to really just getting to know your clients. So uh exciting. So yeah, it's kind of funny that you know that's what's shown up, but but it's there, it works.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

So looking forward, are there where do you think you're headed?

SPEAKER_02 30:18

Um, you know what? I am so excited to release our platform. My goal in that is that now with this AI visibility, you kind of you're already wearing a ton of hats as a business owner. And um, with SEO, you could get away with uh just making sure that your website maybe you were posting a blog once a week or uh, you know, updating the keywords every once in a while or something like that. And you could get away with that and still do okay. Uh, but now with the AI visibility aspect, in order to show up in those citations, you have to have the website optimized, you have to have the code on the back end, but you also need to be making sure that you're doing your social media. You need to be doing networking things like podcasts and things like that as well. And it's kind of like this graph, you've got all of these dots, and you've got to be hitting each one. So, um, so there's a lot of platforms out there right now that are gonna tell you where you're showing up uh in AI searches and things like that. Um, but I couldn't find one that was one place that you could go to and and it would give you the action items. Like this is what you can do today, you know, this is what conversations are happening on Reddit. So if you answer this question, get it on your website or maybe make a LinkedIn post.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Yeah, and so I bet you could take that, you know, um, summary of how you're showing up and put it into um, you know, a GPT and say, hey, get here's what here's how I'm showing up. Give me an action plan um of how do I how do I make myself more visible in AI searches.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Yes, okay. So your platform will actually give everybody the like, here's where you could do better. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

And it'll even help you create the content because it's gonna know you.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

There we go.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

Are you kidding?

SPEAKER_01 32:15

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

Yeah, I wanted just one place that you didn't have to jump from tool to tool to tool, that you went one place, and it's gonna know it because it does this deep dive discovery in the very beginning of who you are, your tone, your rhythm, you know, your branding, all of that kind of stuff. So um, so when it gives you maybe a conversation that's happening on Reddit, um, not only will you be able to jump over to that Reddit conversation and get involved, right? Which could take just minutes a day from something like that, but where if you were doing that manually, like having to go around and find those conversations, it's gonna take a little bit of time. And uh, but then you're also gonna be able to take that question that people are asking and bring it in and write a blog post on it, create some social media, you know, it can even create a script for you for your your videos. So yeah, I mean, because I just, you know, we're all just so busy. So it was like we just need to make this simple and actually have it.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

It could be so crazy. Like, I feel excited with you. Yeah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

I am. I'm like, hey, you could just take all this stuff, throw it in a GPT. Well, she's creating it to solve for it. Yeah. Love it.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

Yeah, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

Yeah, it'll be fun.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

We're excited. How far are you out from lunch?

SPEAKER_02 33:34

Well, we are bootstrapping this, her and I. So we are doing the entire thing. Her brother is luckily a digital designer, and so he's helping us on that end of things, but we're we're close. We should have our MVP done by the first week of January. So yeah, yeah. So we're excited. It will be it'll be exciting. It'll be a good day.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

So um, I'm gonna suggest that we try to time the drop of this as you are as you launch. That would be kind of keep me posted on that. I will. Because we do, we we are always recording a library of things. So I think we try to time around then for you.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

That would be awesome. That would be awesome. Yeah, I'll keep you in the loop.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Because otherwise everybody's just gonna be sitting waiting for this to come out. I know. I'm sitting waiting for it to come out. So I do anyway. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

That would be great.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

Okay. So we're excited to see, and I'm I'm sure we'll revisit as that comes out and you start to traverse that next stage, that next iteration of who your business becomes, right? Yeah, tell me, because I I can't imagine how many growth moments you've had. Like this is quite the journey. But has there been a book that you have read, listened to, whatever, right? However, we have to get the information in our brains, I'm good with that, that has been pivotal, pivotal or has given you great insight into that forward motion.

SPEAKER_02 35:13

Oh goodness. Um the forward motion. I what the book I had in mind, I'm reading this um book right now that actually my brother and my husband both recommended to me because one of my weaknesses is like sales and feeling comfortable in that area. So I'm reading the next conversation right now, which I think is kind of an old school book. I don't know if it's been around. So now I'm having a hard time thinking. I throughout this whole entire journey, do you know what has been the most inspirational for me? It's just podcasts. I it sounds so like funny, but I've I have just um found inspiration through through other people, I guess, in all of these different ways. But for a book for inspiration and moving forward, I'm gonna have to think about it for a second. Sorry about that.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

I know, I actually think so. It's interesting that you know, how do you think we ended up building a podcast? Yeah, right. Is is we as friends have been in this conversation for years about what it's taking to build and what those pivots look like. And and it dawned on us that no matter the industry, there's so much crossover in that experience. And it becomes a very lonely journey because nobody else is gonna care about it the way you care about it. So true. And so it's part of how this whole discussion began is like, how do we create a bigger discussion where people are connecting and learning from each other? I love that. Yeah, I love that. So we're big fans of podcasts too. There's always something playing in my ears for sure.

SPEAKER_02 36:49

I know, I know, yeah. That's I I tease all the time because I'm like, that's how I made that last pivot to AI visibility. The guy said whoever does a case study first is is gonna be like kind of ahead of the game. And I went, Well, I'm gonna do a case study.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

Anyway, that be me.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

Random podcast one day.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

Yeah. So and think forward because we are gonna try to time this with the launch of your platform. Okay. Where do you want people to find you? Because I think you're gonna be a busy lady.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

Yes, right now, so um the best place to find me is is LinkedIn. Uh, I do have my my website for my agency, which is echoai.ai. Uh, but the thing that I'm really excited about as well is that I'm actually launching a Substack this week. Um, just because there's just so little information about all of the ins and outs with the AI visibility, and I really want to be able to break it down so that it's not overly complicated. That's kind of you'll hear that from me a lot. I just, you know, want it to make sense. So um, so yeah, Substack, LinkedIn or my website.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

So we'll make we'll make sure to link those in.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Yep. Awesome. And I'll I'll I'm definitely making a connection because this is this stuff is super, super important to what we're doing.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

Yeah. So isn't it fun and exciting? Yep. Yeah. I am thank you for taking the time to come on because it it really is fun to see a business owner who's as lit up about where they're headed as you are. That I mean, that's I think that's inspiring in and of itself. And also the fact that you are doing it in an industry that you're probably right, there's probably not a lot of women running in that circle. And that you you didn't come out of tech, you didn't write, like you've just kind of learned your way through the thing. It's super fun to watch. I appreciate it. It's it's been a fun journey, that's for sure. So and and I'm sure we will have you on again because I think you are going to continue to pivot. So yeah, we'd love to have you. So please keep me posted as your platform goes live so we can make sure that we time accordingly. Uh thank you again for taking time to come on.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Yeah, and if you if you got some value out of this, which I know you did, go ahead and give us a like, a follow, share this with somebody that you know would uh get that same value.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

Yeah, he's also going to need Milana down the road.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

Like share this one out because we're all gonna need this. I appreciate it. Thank you guys so much. Thank you. Thanks for coming on.

SPEAKER_02 39:39

Oh, thank you. That was fun. I'm sorry, I totally geek out every single time.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

And we love it. That's the beauty, right? Everybody's doing something that they that lights them up.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

That is fun. That is fun. So how long have you guys been doing your podcast for?

SPEAKER_00 39:59

What we're now what, seven months? That's great.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

Visibly.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

Visibly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

But but you know, anything you start.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

I mean, we were a year plus behind the scenes building it.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's never as easy as it seems, is it? No, and we both run very solid businesses, right? That are paying the bills. So it's we we made a determination very early on that we wanted to have a library so that if somebody wanted to take a week off, nothing, right? For us to show up and be consistent, we had to take some precautions in that.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

And yeah, yeah, we we know just from doing the research and talking to people that um the one reason why podcasts don't succeed is because they're not consistent. And we're like, nope, that is not gonna be us.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

Yeah, yeah. We're good at consistency. That it did, it it meant there was a front lift before anybody else saw the activity.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Yeah, that is awesome though. Yeah, and that consistency, that's that's like the I whole entire thing, even with the AI visibility stuff. I'm like, guys, you just have to be consistent now. It can't be on again and off again. So yeah, so that's that's great, especially with the podcast. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna have to chat because you could be the answer to so many questions. Oh, I am here.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

You guys just let me know whatever questions you have. I'm more than happy to answer.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Careful. We'll just put an office in the office. You can just come in here, it'll be great. We really do appreciate it. Yeah, but of course, item to be working on.

SPEAKER_02 41:37

Yeah, no, it's it's fun. And it's you know, it's kind of fun just to see how it's changing every day and the new things and Google trying to, you know, make sure that they're you know still keeping relevant. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

You don't you actually don't know this. My Chat GPT is named Michael. Okay. So I I constantly am walking around the house being like, hey Michael. So I was thinking your kids all think that you're talking. I love telling my what my agents' names are. It's just dawned on me just now.

SPEAKER_02 42:09

Yeah, that's hilarious. That's great. Super funny. Oh, I love it. I love it, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

It's uh and I love anybody who is not responding to that new technology in fear and instead is super curious. What is possible? What can it do for us?

SPEAKER_02 42:26

Yeah, yeah. And that is, I think, just I mean, that's just just don't be afraid of it, right? Like, and if you do jump into it right now and and use it for your business and those kinds of things, you're kind of you're ahead of the game.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

So I would still think you're ahead of it.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

Yeah, yeah, you are, absolutely. Like it's that's not gonna last for too much longer. But um, you know, we we joke like people that are kind of in this deep, right? There's it's it's there's only like one percent. I mean, it's so small. Um, and sometimes you don't realize because you're like, well, everybody knows how to do that, you know, and then you're talking to somebody and you're like, oh, they don't. So yeah, if you can take advantage of it in your business early on, you're you're ahead of the game. Um, you know.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

I'm gonna have to um introduce you. So I've got my best friend is, and and this won't end up, this part won't land on the show. I'll make sure this gets edited. But she uh works for Booz Allen right now, but she got her master's degree in anthropological technology. Everything she does day in and day out is like how, what is the client experience of the thing we create and build? Oh, that's that's awesome. So she will at some point launch her own thing. She's kind of, you know, uh she's a military spouse, so there's chapters in her world. Yeah, but she'll end one this summer and it'll be interesting to see because she'll launch and it it's totally her specialty. She's been working with NASA and some of the big guys out there, and yeah, and that is the big.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Question, especially because that's the one big um hole that we don't have right now with things like ChatGPT and Claude and stuff. Um, with Google, we have all of the reporting, right? So you can just get into Google Analytics or Google Search Console and go, oh, uh, I'm showing up for this many keywords or whatever. Right. Um, there's like 80% of that customer journey that we can't see that's happening in Chat GPT before they actually come to your website or find your phone number or something like that. And so that's why like what your friend does, and you know, such great friends are it out together. It's awesome. That's I think that that's just kind of because it also um I work with a few big enterprise um companies, right? And so in having conversations with them, like especially in the beginning when we were talking, and I would bring them data because data is just it's just gold, right? Right now, and with AI, it's opened up all of these new ways to get this data because we don't have to go digging for it manually. Anyway, um, and so I would go to them and be like, Well, um, you know, have you guys ever targeted this client before? They're asking questions about services that you offer, and they're like, Well, no, we never even thought about that, you know. And so it's it's opening up new areas where you go, oh, okay. Because you kind of when you're in an industry, you just kind of get that tunnel vision, you know. So yeah. So it's it's exciting. That's cool that she does that. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

Yeah, it'll be funny. Next time she's in town, I'll have we'll get together, we'll go to lunch. I'm also gonna connect you. Um, I'm part of a a women's uh entrepreneurial group, sort of like a referral group. Very good. It's like B I style. It's been a riot, but I'll introduce you to that. That'd be a great spot to be showing at because it's all businesses being run, all by women.

SPEAKER_02 46:03

That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 46:04

That's awesome. Really fun.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

So yeah, that is that would be wonderful. Yeah, so connected. Very cool. Well, thank you guys so much. This was fun. It was fun to get to know you guys a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

And now you're Alex's sister. I am, yeah. Tell Alex hi for me. Tell me on the calendar because he has not yet, but I know how busy he is. I know. Tell him to get with it.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

Okay, I will. I know. That's why he's got my husband helping him right now, trying to clear up his schedule a little bit more. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

I know he's buried, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

Oh, he's he's yeah, my favorite person in the whole world. So yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you guys. Have a good rest of your week. Yeah, I do too.

unknown 46:54

Okay.