The Secret to Scaling Construction Businesses with Caleb Blair

 summary

In this episode, Caleb Blair shares his journey from a young construction professional to a thriving general contractor specializing in ADUs. Discover how systematizing operations, strategic expansion, and innovative housing solutions are shaping the future of real estate and community living.

resources

God's Country Development - https://www.godscountrydev.com
Origin ADU - https://www.originadu.com
Alex Hermozi's Books - https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Alex+Hermozi

 guest links

Website - https://www.godscountrydev.com
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/originadu

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Format Overview
00:48 Caleb Blair's Background and Business Focus
01:48 The Origin of Caleb's ADU Business Model
03:24 Pricing and Square Footage of ADUs
04:34 Business Growth and Yearly Revenue
06:00 Expansion Plans and Market Strategy
07:10 Importance of Systems and Processes
11:36 Hiring, Training, and Team Building
15:23 Adapting Operations for Different Markets
19:43 Caleb's Background Before ADUs
21:17 Initial Business Ideas and Focus Shift
23:40 Balancing Visionary and Operational Roles
25:04 Team Size and Project Management
26:20 Deliberate Growth and Market Validation
30:02 Flexibility and Pivoting in Business
32:45 Vision for the Next 10 Years
35:09 Impact of ADUs on Housing Affordability
38:08 Community and Family-Oriented Housing Solutions
40:12 Caleb's Favorite Content and Books
41:43 Where to Find Caleb and His Business

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back, everybody, to the Grind Design Podcast. And if you see this on video, you'll notice I'm doing this solo as my uh counterpart is off on a long weekend. Uh make no mistake, we got an awesome guest today. Uh this guest was introduced to me by a really good friend uh who's also been on the show. And I was super, super intrigued just by um the potential in this person's business as it relates with my geographic setting. Even behind that, as we pull the curtains, you guys are gonna see some really interesting um pieces to his business and uh I think a model that um is gonna be super sustainable. So with further ado, Caleb, uh Caleb Blair, everybody. Caleb, introduce uh yourself to the audience and let's get rolling.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Great, Josh. Thanks for having me. Uh yeah, my name is Caleb Blair. I'm a general contractor. I own God's Country Development and Origin ADU, which is uh offshoot of that for our our markets outside of Grand Junction. Uh we build ADUs for real estate investors and multi-generational living arrangements, primarily real estate investors, uh, though the multi-generational setting has been picking up tremendously lately. Uh you know, people building them for their kids to live in or building them for their parents to age in place or just for themselves if they, you know, maybe they want to do more of a digital nomad thing. Uh, we've had people build an ADU for their kind of part-time home base, rent out their house, uh, then you know, go travel across over, you know, over the world or out of state across the country, you know, all sorts of different applications, but primarily ADUs for real estate investors.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Okay. So where did where did this idea just become like the big shiny light bulb that you're like, I'm gonna go execute?

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Right. So we were building uh, you know, a couple ADUs a year here, probably three years ago, three or four years ago, um, along with other projects, townhomes, duplexes, uh, you know, some built-to-rent stuff before ultimately City of Grand Junction. Uh, well, to back up before that, then we started ramping just the ADU business up. You know, we wanted to create a product that investors can buy off the shelf to increase their cash flow on their properties when the you know the new acquisition prices are 350 plus for a recently flipped house or uh a fixer upper here in town. That doesn't really quite make sense from a dollar for dollar rental perspective. So the ADs were a great fit for that. You know, generally they're building about 195,000 for the 900 square foot model turnkey, uh, and renting anywhere from 1800 to 2300 at the very highest and in the best locations. Number for number, dollar for dollar, much better return than just going and you know, buying a new single family asset uh as opposed to making something work on your existing properties.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

Say that price again.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

5,000 is usually that's our our most popular model turnkey. Uh we try to keep it around that price. You know, we gotten hit with some building codes that increase price, uh you know, at a percentage basis, but we're we try to keep them pretty tight. Some people up do upgrades and they end up running, some people add garages, make them two level. Uh some end up bigger, some end up smaller, but usually between 160 and and and 200,000 is the sweet spot.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Square remind square footage on those?

SPEAKER_01 3:24

So here in Grand Junction, Colorado, we were capped at 900 square feet within city limits. So outside in the county, you can go up to half the of the principal or 1200 square feet. But you know, the the bulk of the rental houses here in town are are within city limits. So 900s usually are bread and butter for ADE size on that. And across across other markets, you know, Fort Collins, they're maxed at 750. Salt Lake, you know, depending which which neighborhood changes a little bit, but uh for the most part, 900s of great ADE size.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Gotcha. Okay, so you saw this opportunity. Um, and you guys you let's rewind it a little bit further. When um how long ago did you start this endeavor?

SPEAKER_01 4:06

This is the beginning of the third year. So last year was our our second full year um from January to January. Uh, and that was the first year we really tried to take only ADU projects on. Uh the first year, you know, we were kind of all over the place, about 40% ADUs. Uh, and then by the revenue, a little bit bigger margin just because townhome projects, you know, it was bigger or duplexes, they were bigger dollar valued compared to the ADUs. Um, so our revenues, you know, uh that second year matched our first year, but but overall profit increased because they were all smaller project sizes and all ADUs. Uh and then this year we went into the year with more projects booked than the last year entirely. So we're looking to keep that up. You know, we're continuing to book projects and execute them, but uh overall it's a it's a hungry thing here in Grand Just.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Yeah. So so I'm curious, you know. I mean, two years, you know, full two years behind you. You've already expanded. Um, I know people in other businesses that have been doing it for 20 years and have never expanded. Not that that's right or wrong, yet you guys seem to be on a path of some some pretty good growth. Talk talk to me about just the whole expansion endeavor because it started in Grand Junction, now Fort Collins, and now coming into the Salt Lake market.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Yeah, so I and I'll I'll correct you. We haven't officially expanded yet. You know, we haven't opened offices there yet. We've identified the teams, uh, but we're in the process of getting the the new overarching branding done with Origin ADU. You know, God's country development will stay the same here just because of brand recognition in our area. It's a smaller market. Um, but going forward, everything I'll do will be Origin ADU. Those will be the new markets. Salt Lake, Fort Collins slash the Front Range, Colorado, Austin, Texas. Uh, you know, and we got a short list of others. But but pretty much uh we spent the last year or so identifying our systems and fine-tuning them, which we're still doing, you know, nothing's ever, ever perfect. But, you know, getting our systems ready where then we could upload that into new markets where where we can do these efficiently. Uh and then it's just launching the marketing funnel, which we spent a lot of time getting that ready too. Uh so coming in the next couple of months, we'll be opening and and turning dirt in Fort Collins, Salt Lake City. And we'll do we'll do one or two at a time, you know, get the get each market, get the office, get the team there really set up and stabilized before we launch into the, you know, into the next market and I think the fascinating thing and I and the smart thing too is is that uh you talked about like slowing down and really spending you know the past year understanding um refining um really you didn't say the word, but I would imagine trying to perfect as much as you can your systems and your processes, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Um I I I think I understand the importance of that, but like explain to the listeners like why is that so important to spend the time on that?

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Yeah, well, when construction is a process heavy business and you you learn it uh one way or another, you know, if your stuff's not squared away inside your team is in brain damage and strife. And even sometimes now when we don't do things through our systems or through our own processes, you know, the all of us on the ground here experience that brain damage and that strife immediately. So you know, oh, something's not right. It could be better, it could be like this, this, and this, where you know things go smoother, there's less problems, there's less callbacks, there's less reworks. And in construction, that's uh that's a real margin driving thing. You know, reworks cost money, uh, mobile remobilizing costs money, fixing things costs money, everything in buildings expensive. Um, so that's a real margin driving thing. So making sure those processes are squared away from the start was the most important thing before I go launch uh, you know, another market. And on the backside of that, when I was looking at uh builders who do semi-custom, which is basically what we do, semi-custom on your lot contract style builds. We're not doing spec houses, you know, we're not buying a piece of land, building an ADU on it, and then selling it. We are going from client call us. Hey, I have a property here, I want to build an ADU. Great. We identify what ADU they want to build and we build that on their lot. And we're strictly the GC paid to do that on their lot. So I when I was researching some models of what people had done in the past to successfully do that type of contract build, you know, there's a number handful of publicly traded home building companies, but all of them are spec builds where, you know, they'll go through, develop a subdivision, buy all the lots, sell, build all the houses on the lots, and sell the completed products they're done. Ours is like, you know, the flip side of that, which is a client-centric, uh, client-driven process that ultimately somebody out there has to own a property, call us, want to build an AEU on it, and us build it and move on. So from that perspective, the companies I'd seen that did the semi-custom on-your-lot multi-location model well, um really have have all their stuff dialed because otherwise, you know, there's a bunch of ways you can build a house. There's a bunch of different internal systems building companies can have across the board. But what seems right at first might not ultimately operationally work. Uh, and then the the dangerous side of things is the people who have done tried to do this in the past with the ADUs on the custom on your lot ADUs blown up, so to speak, because you know, their their systems, their processes aren't ready. Uh, you know, they they put a new team in there, people who know construction in and out, who know how to build a house, maybe can can self-perform everything, but their processes aren't there to make sure that you know we're turning these efficiently so that our overhead time, you know, isn't stretched out as much and ultimately getting in a cash flow pinch. So that's that becomes the challenge there. And and that was why that was the necessary first step to make sure, you know, when we start a team, that team is walking into an already completed, battle-tested, perfected system and process that uh, you know, that we can we can then launch and get them implemented in and adjust as it grows too, which is the important part is you know, we change things like, hey, we recognize that this isn't the smoothest way we could do things. So we'll we'll tweak this and this and this, and that process will change slightly. And hopefully then in the field we see uh you know some more streamlined operations where our subs are happy, people who show up on the job are happy, happy to work, things are ready. There's not all sorts of messes everywhere. And ultimately, uh, you know, then we can do more projects quicker at a higher quality, which ultimately is the goal is making these people happy because otherwise you won't be you won't be in business that long. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Yeah. So I I mean, uh, you said you said it in a lot more depth than you know, maybe I would have said it in I mean, the operations are always going to be the backbone of you know any business organization. So to spend the time to get the processes, the models, the systems um to a point to where um you know it's replicatable and you know trustworthy to support the end result, I think is outstanding. But I think the next piece I want to just follow up on with that is okay, you have a process and the operation side, but then you've got, okay, you've got to find these teams, you got to build these teams, you've got to hire, attract, and train these teams. That's an entirely different beast, is it not?

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Absolutely. And that's a beast I haven't perfected quite yet. You know, that's uh something you get with reps, uh, as I'm coming to learn. But you know, I can't expect that to be perfect, and and right now that's just looking like doing the best job it can, and maybe a little bit more oversight or micromanaging than I'd like to uh until until it gets right and I can see if if that person's the right fit. But yeah, that's a totally different skill set. Uh exactly. Even even you know, our construction operations of okay, we have a build packet done, which tells us what we're building, how we're building it, what we're using, colors, all that. Building that is one process, you know. That that's a a whole separate system compared to our marketing funnel, which is supposed to bring leads that are interested in ADU, which is a then separate system between pipeline and project, which the goal is then to nurture that lead from initial contact to build packet, where you know we have a signed contract with everything ready to go, uh all the all the bells and whistles of colors and material selections that they're gonna use. Uh though that's a separate system entirely. And people and governance and organizations is another system. So there's a lot to it, but uh, you know, that's business. And I'm sure it's not like we're building rocket ships here or something.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Well, it and I I think you know, just the fact that you're like, yeah, you know what? Um, yeah, the people piece, like, yeah, we're we're still working through it and it's it's a little bit more pliable. I I think that's I love the authenticity because leading people and hiring and training, and that is literally, at least in my opinion, in any organization, the hardest thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Yeah, yeah. And you hear that across the board from founders who've gone and done it and sold and have big organizations, you know, that ultimately becomes their role at at some point when it gets big enough. But no, we've been blessed with good clients. Uh and I I think we'll be that way with like even our team now. Uh, we've been blessed with that. But I think that'll be continue to be the way going forward. Call me optimistic. But you know, I I think I think the people that will attract and our culture will invite and that's what we're trying to do with that vision will bring the right kind of people for us that that'll that'll work hard in one of the things.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

No, I I I I I think you're spot on. And I mean, in fact, what when I was an owner of a of a large real estate team, and well, we started off, we there was five of us, and my main task that I was tasked with was to build through agent count. We went from five to I don't know, 40 agents in the span of three years or so. I mean, you don't want to talk about messy, right? But but here's the reality is those first three years of of learning how to identify, how to select, how to train uh talent, how to hold uh accountable, right? The talent, that all got better from that first iteration of hiring. And years four, five, six, seven, eight, like those were so much better, and and quite frankly, more efficient and effective because like those first couple years were just messy.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Right. And we've seen that, I think the strongest stark example is in the sales process, you know, from before I don't know, quite know what we had. Uh, and it's it'll improve day and night, I'm sure, and even a year of reiterations. But our sales process now of okay, you know, one point of contact, discovery call, site visit, proposal, plan review, contract, you know, that this happens much smoother now than than than in the past. So just constant reiterations were how does the client get the feeling of this is all put together, you know, this is all a big engine that I'm I'm I'm just using to go down the road with. Uh that's ultimately the impression we want. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Yeah, and time on task over time and and learning from those iterations, like that just the product gets better.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

Right. Yeah, you don't do something 20 years and get worse at it. You hope not.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Yeah. Um well that's awesome. Um, because like as we're having this conversation, you know, I think back to you know, building and and this team from A to B. And um you don't it's hard to read the label when you're inside the package and you're you're you know going through all of it, but I it sounds to me like you're a lot more aware than a lot, including myself, in terms of just that awareness of okay, the messiness that it can be specifically with people. Not that the people are messy, but the process of working, leading, and um organizing people is is the messy piece. So like the fact that you're embracing that I think is is probably uh beneficial for you anyways. Right. Uh might be lucky in that way. Maybe. So I'm curious, right? Because you know going to different markets and knowing that the city codes and the rules or regulations are all different. Like I'm sure there are certain processes that are gonna be the same, but like how have you found working with the different municipalities or cities um while still keeping the integrity of your brand and the business model that you have?

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Yeah, and we're we're still pretty new at that. You know, we're not turning dirt on any new locations yet. Um, but you know the first step for both of them really was just called every single person in the city that I could get up, get on the phone, get as much info as possible. Thankfully, you know, both of them are pretty close in climate zones. Both of the standard building operations are from materials, you know, what cladding are we using, what uh roof size are we using, yeah, installation values, all those kind of things are pretty similar across our markets right now. So that wasn't a big change. I imagine if we go to Arizona or somewhere different, you know, there it might be a little different. And and that's where you can, as I envision it now, be able to lead on, lean on the team there uh in the process of interviewing for that GM. Most of them are running, you know, big building companies or uh high-level project manager at a publicly traded company where they can say, you know, oh, we're we're using uh 516s OSB, or where you are we have R15 walls instead of R30. You know, all those type of things um are just as I see, just information we got to figure out. There's people building houses there. So uh there's no reason we can't build houses there. Um even calling a building inspector and and asking them, hey, what are people generally doing on for their, you know, I don't know, their uh their their their roof decking size, you know, all those kind of things, they'll tell you mostly, or you know, calling a framing curve and finding those that info out, or you know, the stuff that varies like that to get or how are they people a lot of people doing their foundations or are they doing footers or are they doing slabs? Are they doing basements, even in some parts of the Midwest? You know, all those kind of things are is just info, just phone calls you got to figure out. Uh the actual building itself is is pretty straightforward, it doesn't change too much. Um, there might be a couple things that we have to change on our global schedule, particular construction process-wise. Um, you know, maybe we don't have to do foundation installation there, maybe we don't have to um get blower door tests done. Most of the places are are on ICC, so they're all pretty similar. Um, but you know, those are just things that you got to learn, and ultimately ones that aren't aren't that big of a risk. Uh, we'll get, you know, the drafting handles most of that in in each market. So what we're building is mostly laid out on that.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

So I probably should ask this question right from the from the get-go, but I think it's appropriate now because like your your passion, your attention to detail, your focus um on building this this product and then expanding, like it's it's very clear to me. Yet did you when you before you even started this, like what were you doing before this?

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Um, I don't know how much of that I want to get. I'm I'm I'm I'm 25. Um, before I did this, I was briefly an insurance agent slash general contractor. I was still building houses then. Uh had my GC license since I was 19 or 20. I had a previous about year stint. That's awesome. Yeah, I had a previous about year stint at a uh a pretty large spec home builder here where I got to see, you know, kind of how they, you know, how operations are run at a building company level. But building houses is is is a skill a lot of people have. It's it's not the most uh, you know, there's a lot of people who can build a house out there, but building a building business is another thing. Uh and and once I saw this and wanted to do this, I love building. Uh at first I thought we were gonna be doing at first this is funny even to think about now, but uh at the very first when I started, I thought, well, I'm gonna I want to do ultimately off-grid estate houses, like one-of-a-kind, high security off-grid estate houses. And I, you know, that was uh not a pipe dream, but you know, that was what I was initially thought would be awesome. It'd be uh heavy problem solving and architecturally significant. Ultimately, I fell into built to rent because we were doing some investment properties, and my wife's family uh does investment properties, so I was doing some projects with them and building some ADUs and doing that, but until I got into that world and said, you know what, I like this, I like the client base, I like I like uh I know the game. Uh that was important, and I'm I'm gonna sink my teeth into this.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Yeah, I mean, just the the bit that you did share. I mean, from 19, you know, you were swinging a hammer or doing, you know, in the construction side of things, uh, you know, to now being 25, being two years into this, um, there's there's quite a good amount of runway for you guys to run on this, isn't there?

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Right. Yeah, oh absolutely. I I think I got my GC license in 2020, 2020, about so um, yeah, about that. And then I I was doing it under God's country for since the start, really. Uh, but I was just doing all sorts of stuff and you know, not not just building, I was doing rubes, I was doing Yeah, remodels. I was doing all kinds of things until I got focused really.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

Well, yeah, I mean you call it focus, and I'm sure it is. But is there maybe a way, like these other things that you were doing, whether it was roofs or decks or anything else, was just a just a way for you to unintentionally learn, you know, sort of the the full scope of a business. So that now it's like you're you're doing all of this under your own brand, under your own direction. Um and those were merely just means to an end. That'd be fair?

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Yeah, yeah. Well, I everything happens for a reason. And I guess I picked something up. I'd say the best learning was probably at that at that large building company. That was that was the best. I mean, the hands-on stuff, every people can learn construction. You can go on YouTube for a couple weeks and and learn every single detail about you know joist hangers and how people frame walls and how drywall's installed and how to do tile properly. You can go on YouTube and learn that stuff, but you know, it in person is a little different. But looking at operation as a whole, you know, superintendents, project managers, clients interface, office managers, all that stuff, and how that plays a role running subs and and how to communicate with subs and uh inspectors and homeowners all in the mix is is the is the real learning curve there that yeah I got from that.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Yeah, I would imagine. Oh, okay. So switching gears back to like so from an organizational perspective, are you are you wearing just all the hats of visionary to implementer to marketing or like um yes and no.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Uh we try to go pretty lean and and you know, I'm not overloaded in time. I work hard, but I wouldn't say I'm overloaded with like I just have too many things to do. Um we have an execution team that handles a lot of the building stuff here in Grand Junction. That's been awesome. Um, you know, I'm working with clients and and uh acting as the client rep just because I'm also doing the sales process now, which isn't overly cumbersome, but mostly visionary integrator, if you'd want to call it that. That's probably how I'll be you know moving forward in the new markets where obviously I can't be in three cities at one time going driving by all the job sites. Um so running teams and looking at the systems and trying to put put the goals for the business in their head is it will be most of my role, I I imagine. The marketing stuff I like that um you know that just comes with it. You know, we all ever pretty much everybody in the company cold calls too on occasion, uh just out of out of out of hobby, really. Uh but you know, we do kind of do it all right now, but you know, we're an early early startup, our jobs run well. Um I'm not overloaded, no, nobody's burnt out or or spinning wheels, you know, we're all pretty efficient. Um how many how many employees do you guys have? Uh so there's three of us. Yeah. Yeah, so now we're doing usually about 12 to 20 projects at a time. Um, which I'm I'm I want to be doing 40 ADUs at our Grand Junction office, and then I'd like to have at least six going in Salt Lake and Fort Collins by year end. Hopefully I speed that up and you know, crush that. We're we're gonna crush the Grand Junction goal by far. But in Fort Collins and Salt Lake, for instance, you know, that that just comes with time and getting everything implemented, and I don't want to rush the things that will make or break the client experience because that that's the that's the backbone of of of the business, really.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Yeah, I think that's important to just note because if you know going into a new market or coming in with a new product in an existing market, um I I think you you could there's tons of you know uh history on businesses that have gone too fast, you know, too much too fast. And I what I love is is just your your focus on being deliberate with delivering, you know, I I'll say proof of concept. You can call whatever it whatever you want, but so that it builds that trust and that loyalty that allows you then to to ramp up and and speed up when the time is right. Am I getting that right?

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Absolutely, yeah. And product market fit was a big thing we played with, you know, marketing campaigns, uh, overall internal processes, you know, like because we've had some dandies on client experiences. We've had some before our our real ADU phase, but uh we're on different projects that were more custom house type stuff, you know, where our our systems were not in order at all. You know, we were running out of my pickup truck and it was just a mess. Uh and those clients suffered and and that that that's hard to hard to do that. You know, it's hard to go and you know put some suffering on somebody, but it's good motivation to get it fixed and and do things right for the next several and stay motivated and uh you know delivering the experience and and and product ultimately that you want to.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

So knowing what you know um with your existing location, like what do you first see as like the challenges as you as you expand?

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Um challenges mostly related to people. Processes-wise, I I know we can turn the marketing button on and and book 20 jobs in the next quarter if we wanted to in each of the markets. Um, but really managing the back-end people, the team on that, in order to do that is as I see the biggest challenge and the biggest question mark that I have that I'm we're gonna be figuring out uh is you know, I I picture it, we hire a GM uh who's you know really familiar with the process and can act as a super as a project manager. And then as we add jobs, we infill the remaining roles where then there's a project manager, superintendent, quality assurance, uh, and client rep, and and then grow it from that. Our we're gonna do things a little differently. Our home office is gonna handle all the back end, everything um for the satellite offices. And so their job is strictly execution, you know, they're not uh they're not managing cash flows, they're not making sure uh new leads are coming in. I I want them really to be focused on being a part of that community, you know, meeting people and and executing through projects.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Yeah, that I mean I I love the the whole you got your expansion markets, but you've got your one hub that's gonna take care of all the back end stuff. I mean, I think from a quality control, like that that probably solves a lot, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 28:41

I I imagine that. Now we haven't tested that, so we might say that's a horrible ideal. Um, but you know, as I see it right now, that's the best way this could be done. Because then if there's somebody at some point it becomes big enough where then all of those are operational efficiencies, where you have one person at home office who's pretty much doing the office manager role at each of the locations at three different locations instead of one person at each of those locations doing it, and that lady's or person is going to be better than all of them. You know, they're gonna be better at getting sub-1099s, they're gonna be better at doing issuing change orders, they're gonna be better at they're gonna be faster, more efficient, more professional, more put together at all that, or they'll see things and improve it faster than all of them will. So I I picture that to be the best, best way to do it. Um, I it's really hard to find information about founders and other construction companies that how they've done it, how they've set things up. But to me, thinking through it, that that seems to be the best way. And we'll be testing that in the next six months or so. So we'll I guess we'll find out pretty quick.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Yeah, yeah. But what I also get just in our time that we've spent today is is that I think you have an idea of how you want it to go, maybe how you think it's gonna go. But I I also don't think you're putting all your eggs in a basket to where you're gonna be unable to pivot or be flexible with what you're finding out in the moment, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Well, absolutely not. No, I don't know how anything would survive that. Even yeah, I mean, we've changed, like I've just built we've Alan and I built all sorts of systems. And one time I spent uh I don't know how many weeks on this really elaborate operating system with pipeline to permit, you know, management and pass-throughs and conditions and all this stuff. And I looked at it when it was done, and I just said, I can't use this and threw the whole thing out, and that was it. You know, now we moved on to the next thing. And so, no, I don't, we're not that rigid, you know. Uh I eventually, yes, but you get rigid, I think, after you get it right.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Oh my gosh, that's such a good point. And I what I I was hoping you were gonna say that you did throw that away because I could tell like you just weren't bought into it when the final thing was until the very end.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

I was so locked in on this. I worked on that thing for weeks, late hours, early. I was locked in on that. And then I finished it and I didn't like the way it, I didn't like the user interface. I didn't like, I thought nobody's gonna use this. Yeah, it's got all the information on there, but I just threw it out because you know what's nobody's gonna use it. It's not it's not uh efficient or it's not doesn't look good, nobody's gonna use it. So just threw the whole thing out and moved on to the next one.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

Yeah, what I loved, what I really love about that story and example is that you didn't force it, like you it came to a point where you understood like it was more harm to use it than it would be good.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Yeah. And I think you as our listeners, right? I mean, I think it's one thing to to have a plan and you stick to a plan, but you don't stick to the plan for the sake of sticking to the plan.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Right. You stick to the plan for the sake of the mission. And then you switch the plan if you need to. You know, it's a tactical versus strategic mission, I guess uh is how I describe it as yeah, you know, we have a strategic mission is to be the national ADU platform. That's a strategic mission. And there's the strategic mission on how we're gonna do that. You know, we're gonna launch these offices here, here, and here, we're gonna do it this way. But the tactical mission is the actual steps that we take to accomplish that, and and those are flexible. If that doesn't work, you pivot.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

Yeah, I always love the football example. I mean, the the the example or the the objective is always to win the game and you have a playbook or a game plan to go in. But if it's not working, you're not gonna continue to use the damn plan. You're gonna you know that's why they have adjustments, right? And and the best teams are the ones that adjust the best. And I think the same would be said as business owners.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Cool. All right, so let's let's fast forward here because like I love your mission, by the way, of being the the standard or the national platform for ADU. That is that's big. We call that a B hag. I love it. Um let's let's fast forward. You've been doing this for a couple of years, you're expanding it. Let's just uh figure out 10 years from now, and I'm not gonna hold you to 10 years, I just want you to think bigger. If we're revisiting this in a decade, like what where do you envision you guys can be?

SPEAKER_01 33:06

You know, I envision a pretty uh dense corporate structure, you know, where we got a home office who's doing a lot and everything's squared away. Uh, all our processes are outlined, new launches are quick, projects are going great. Um, and and I picture that I've just on a shorthand, I I picked 40 markets that I thought you know could be used and and assisted by the construction of ADUs, and that will likely be friendly for those ADUs in the in the future, in the next couple of years. Um so I would like to see offices in all those. Uh, and and I'd like to see over 5,000 ADUs built per year. That's you know, the the meaningful number that I've picked in my head that looking at this is okay, that's 40, 40 different offices at 100 ADUs average, uh, a little over. Um, you know, that's a that's a robust business. And ADUs are, I don't know, I don't think they've really caught that much popularity in Salt Lake yet. But when the when they're done well, they're a wonderful addition to the housing, housing market. I mean, they are when they're done well, they're they're they add a lot of value for everybody involved. Tenants, neighbors, you know, they look good. Um, they're nice places, people like them over apartments. Uh, they're a little bit more homey feel, and they provide a living solution for people who really are outside of all the other uh missing middle housing. And they're at a price point that you know, I even saw a statement it was 80%, 80 to 90 percent of single family rental properties in the United States are owned by mom and pop investors who have two to ten units. So there's a massive amount of housing to be unlocked. If you add one ADU to each of those, that that's somewhere in the range of 40 to 60 million ADUs. So there's a lot of potential there.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Well, yeah, and I think it the the biggest thing, at least in my opinion, that it solves is is that the housing affordability that we like every mid to major metro is up against right now. Solidity. One of them. Solid IK being a massive one. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean I I just commend you guys with your with your mission um and understanding, yes, you're you're running business to make a profit. However, the way you speak of like how it solves for so many other peripheral problems with the affordability one here locally, I I like come in here, let's let's do some business because there's a lot of people that'll benefit from what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

You talk to your Salt Lake County commissioners and remove the owner-occupied rule that they've got going on there. Uh that's really the biggest bottleneck from us opening up full rain there. Because right now, all of our marketing in Salt Lake would be strict strictly for multi-generational living arrangements, which are an awesome product too. That's a totally different segment of housing that I think we've ever seen before. Um, for instance, we have a client right now whose kids bought her house and she's a widow, and she's building an ADU 900 square foot, pretty much a large master suite that she's gonna live on on the property. So then you picture, okay, so how much healthier, happier, socially connected is that person aging gonna be when they're right by their family. They have their own independence, but yet designed in a way that's the same as as a not, I don't want to say it's designed like a nursing home. This is an it's an awesome house, but um, you know, designed in the same way where it's safe, where people are by her, people are connected to her socially, she's connected. And, you know, those are levers that uh, you know, we're they're gonna make a tremendous difference in in the health and ultimate happiness at the end of their life. And and that's a great product. And those, I mean, that 900 square foot ADU at first when we were doing the design process, she was really concerned. You know, she thinks that her kids are throwing her in a in a tiny shoebox and she can't imagine what 900 square foot feels like. I said, you know, uh I'm not gonna share her name, but ma'am, we could put you in a 500 square foot ADU and you have more room than you know what to do with. And we, when it came down to it, we measured the kitchen and the living room and and all the living space in her in her main house that she's living, and her house, and her new ADU plan. I because she was really concerned about uh you know losing quality of life, I said, okay, well, we'll measure these and you'll see what what you're going from to what where you're going. The living room was a foot larger on the ADU. The kitchen was the same size and had a slightly better ease of use than than her main house. The bedroom was bigger, walk-in closet was bigger, you're just cutting out all that extra space. And then it's another, instead of that son paying, who knows, $5,000 a month for a nursing home or assisted living or independent living or a $55 plus community, you know, they're spending $200,000 and they're now getting an asset on their property that if she passes or if she needs you know further care of or for whatever reason that house gets becomes empty, that can now be rented out as an income-producing real estate asset. So you know, there's a lot of solutions.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

Yeah, what a great story. And um, you know, I think offline, whatever I can do with boots on the ground here, um, with that, you know, anything with that I have the ability to do, um, man, I'd I'd back you guys 100%. Awesome. Well, we appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

And I it's only a matter of time before Salt Lake does it. I mean, the Salt Lake, what I like about it is it's really a family-oriented community, uh, pretty much from pretty much all of Utah, uh, from but from Ogden to St. George. So there's going to be a tremendous potential and with housing increasing, uh, you know, people who want to give their, you know, maybe they have a newly married adult kid and they want to give them a start. Well, with the two bedroom ADU units are phenomenal. I mean my wife lived in one, they're awesome units. Uh, they're plenty spacious for what you need. You know, you don't need 5,000 square feet when when it's two people and a dog. You know, you need a nice, cute place that has all the living arrangements and well-designed function of living. Uh, and and it was awesome. I I would go back, I would build one, and I would live in it uh if there weren't children involved, you know. So I mean, there's all sorts of applications there, and uh Salt Lake's gonna be a great market in the I figure the next six months or so.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Love it, man. All right. Well, as we wrap up here, because I mean I literally I'm so intrigued by the ADU concept and um especially how it's gonna show up here in my backyard. But that's probably for another show, um, especially when you get out here. We'll maybe do this in person. But I want to um as a business owner yourself, um, we ask all of our guests this um you know, I I've got to imagine you do your your your own set of reading or content absorption of of things that have left a lasting impression on you. And I'm just curious if there's something that you've either read recently or or listened to that has done that, that's you know, sort of proven to be that go-to for you.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

Yeah, I'd say the book I read the most would be the Bible, um, which you know uh I don't need to elaborate too much on that. That it goes goes without saying. The content I absorb, I absorb a lot of Alex Sarmozzi. That's been really, really helpful for me. Um he has great tactical stuff. A lot of the business podcasts are pretty strategic, pretty high-level, pretty uh, you know, oh yeah, we'll do this, and this is the mission, here's the struggles. But the his tactical stuff of okay, I did this, I switched this email hook to this, and I saw this much increase in open rate. Or, you know, I changed my pricing model by this and this. That that was tremendous. Uh, I still consume a lot of his content. All three of his books um I've read and gleaned off a lot from them.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

Um, I don't read probably as much as I ought to, but uh I yeah, I can't think of uh quite too many other business specific books that besides those two that we'll we'll put all of his books in our show notes for people to reference.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Yeah, I'd say Alex Farmozzi's three, those were tremendously helpful. And a lot of them they're pretty hard to find applications for a you know general contracting business, but uh if I had a a little simpler service business, I could think of tons of ways, you know, that to apply stuff. But just working through tactical solutions has been awesome.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

Awesome. Okay. Um so if people want to learn more about you, your business, um, where can they come find you?

SPEAKER_01 41:43

So we're pretty dry on social media right now. I'm waiting for the origin ADU, all that stuff to be done before I really start unleashing the marketing assets that we've compiled. Um, right now you can get find us at godscountrydev.com uh to read more about our general process and and look at our plans and see what we're doing here in Grand Junction. But origin ADU going forward, you know, that will be origin ADU co uh on across the board for for handles. Love it, love it.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

Okay. Well, um Caleb, uh like we uh we promised, I promised, uh end of last year we'd get together. It took a little bit for me to finally uh uh make the space, but I'm so grateful that we were able to do this today. And uh I look forward to hearing how the entry to this market and the others go. Let's stay in touch. Great. Appreciate your time, Josh. All right, appreciate it. Take care, have a good day.