Self-Efficacy, Systemic Shifts, and the Real Lives of Teachers

Episode Description

In this episode of Trauma Informed Conversations, host Jessica Parker welcomes teacher, coach, and author Emma Kell. Drawing on 27 years of classroom experience and her recent book, Real Lives of Teachers, Emma explores the psychological landscape of the teaching profession today.

Moving beyond superficial wellbeing advice, Jess and Emma discuss the concept of moral injury and "compassion stress" - the emotional toll of working within a system that often feels like it is "never enough". They delve into the power of self-efficacy, the necessity of radical appreciation, and how school leaders can foster psychological safety through clear boundaries and transparent communication. This conversation is a vital check-in for any educator or leader navigating the "highs and lows" of the modern school environment.

Key Takeaways

• Wellbeing as Self-Efficacy: Real wellbeing in education isn't about "hot baths"; it is the feeling of making a tangible difference in a child’s life, often measured in smiles and small glimmers of progress.
• The Weight of Moral Injury: Many teachers face a "compassion stress injury" when their values and hard work collide with a system lacking resources and funding.
• Clarity as Psychological Safety: Emma highlights how "perfectionist" clarity in school policies and expectations creates a contained, safe environment for staff to thrive.
• Modelling for Leaders: School leaders are among the most vulnerable to burnout; modelling healthy boundaries—such as respecting "out of office" emails - is essential for a sustainable school culture.
• Stubborn Optimism: Despite systemic challenges, maintaining a sense of "relentless optimism" and celebrating "blossoms" (positive moments) helps educators remain resilient.

Resources Mentioned

• Real Lives of Teachers: Navigating the Highs and Lows of Schools Today by Emma Kell. Available on Amazon.
• Those That Can: Visit www.those-that-can.com for more information on Emma’s coaching and wellbeing facilitation.
• Trauma Informed Consultancy Services (TICS): Visit www.ticservicesltd.com to access live training events, further information on trauma-informed practice, and to contact the team for support. 

Guest 

Emma Kell is a teacher, coach, and speaker with over 27 years of experience in the classroom. She currently teaches in alternative provision and provides coaching and facilitation on teacher wellbeing, school culture, and communication. Emma is a passionate advocate for the profession, focusing on what helps teachers "survive and thrive" in the modern educational landscape. 

Subscribe to Trauma Informed Conversations for more honest discussions about trauma, recovery, and building systems rooted in care and humanity.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Hello and welcome to Trauma Informed Conversations, the podcast about trauma, healing, and hope.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Very warm welcome to Trauma Informed Conversations Podcast. It's me again, Jessica Parker. Now I want to start by saying that this conversation particularly matters to me. So as a previous teacher, before I moved into the world of trauma and mental health, I got to see kind of well-being of teachers from both sides. Me personally, operating within schools and colleges at that point in time, but also really observing my colleagues. So I've spent a lot of time working in schools and with schools. And so for this reason, I've got the absolute pleasure of welcoming Emma Cal into the podcast room today. For those of you who don't know, um Emma has recently written a book, uh Real Lives of Teachers and Navigating the Highs and Lows of Schools Today. Welcome Emma.

SPEAKER_05 1:10

Thank you for having me. Lovely to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

So let's start with you. First of all, I'm super excited. I was telling Emma just before we we hit that big red scary record button, Emma, didn't we? That although we've been on LinkedIn for years, but this is actually our first time meeting and chatting. So we're kind of winging it, Emma, aren't we, today?

SPEAKER_05 1:28

Absolutely. And it's that small world of teachers and teaching, isn't it? We all meet eventually.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

It really, really is. So I guess you better tell us a little bit about yourself. So obviously, we know that you've got an education background, but I don't know whether you can elaborate on that a little bit for our listeners. And and really, I guess the million pound question is what led you to write this particular book?

SPEAKER_05 1:53

Yes. Um, well, you're speaking to me during the school holidays, and you know that strange thing where even after 27 years that you look at yourself in the mirror in the holidays and think, what do I do for a living? Well, what yeah. So who am I? Yeah, who am I? Yeah, who am I? Um but yes, um, so locking in, as my teenage daughters would say. Um so what led me to write the book? Well, so a bit about me then. I've been teaching for 27 years, as I've just mentioned. Um, I am still a teacher, and that means a lot to me to be able to say that. So when I started my business um about six and a half years ago, I did leave the classroom for a few weeks, um, and I found that I really, really missed it. I really missed that sense of belonging, that sense of being part of things. And I actually just missed young people because they're way nicer to work with than adults, really, aren't they, most of the time? Um yeah, so um, so I got in touch with an old colleague on the theme of we all meet again if it eventually and ended up going back into teaching. So I currently teach in alternative provision. So uh trauma informed, which is your um uh your very much central to your work, is very much central to the way we teach actually, um, at Chessbrook, where I am very proud to call myself a teacher. Um, and alongside my own teaching, I coached. So I've coached um hundreds now of people working in school since 2020, and I facilitate on teacher well-being, school culture and communication. So, what led me to write the book? You know those, you know those moments when you go, oh I'll just do this. Like when I had my idea for my doctorate and I was on the M25 and I'd like, oh just do a doctorate. And I've had this moment of thinking that people people trust me with their stories, and I'm so lucky, you know. I I I I get to go into schools all over the country and beyond, um, and in other countries as well. And as a coach, people trust me with their stories, um, and I just felt that I wanted to get to the heart of what's going on with our profession. What is it really that leads teachers to walk away from the profession, and what is it really that leads them to stay and thrive? Um, so I wanted to dig right into that key question, which remains a burning question, um, and you know, it there isn't an easy answer, is there? Um, but what I would say is, you know, people don't leave schools because of children, um, ever, I would say. Um, people don't really leave schools because of behaviour, or even because of, you know, the newspaper headlines about violence from children. Do people leave schools because of workloads? Yes, but very few people enter teaching thinking it's going to be an easy life. Um, so I really wanted to get into the nuts and bolts of what makes teachers join the profession, what helps them stay for as long as they want to stay. You were no longer in a world where you have to sign yourself away for 60 years to the same career. But you know, what is it that drives people away sooner than they wanted to walk away? And what can we do about it? What can we do about it as individuals, what can we do about it as schools, um, and what can the wider sector and the powers that be do about it? So, so yeah, so that was the so so yeah, and and then I sat there and started writing and thought, oh my goodness, what have I done? Because I'm looking at all of the factors, all of the factors which lead all of the teachers to stay. And who am I who am I to tell these stories? And then the imposter syndrome had a bit of a party, and I thought, no, get on with it. So it took me three years to write, which was a long longer than anticipated. Um, and it was a proper labour of love.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

Oh gosh, do you know what it's and it's fantastic? And as you say, that imposter syndrome statement is very, very um, yeah, something that I can certainly resonate with for sure. But I'm really glad, you know, that you've written this. So, you know, we talk a lot about the sort of so-called highs and lows. I mean, what sorts of things were you hearing from teachers, you know, as you were kind of, yeah, not only through your interactions, but you know, also as you were kind of putting that together in the book, like, you know, how did you almost determine, yeah, like what those highs and lows seem to be?

SPEAKER_05 6:02

Oh, so that's a big question. So the highs essentially are linked to the concept of self-efficacy, yeah. So we all uh I find myself standing in front of audiences again and again saying, no, not that type of well-being. I'm not gonna tell you not to drink wine during the week, and I'm not gonna tell you to drink two litres of water a day or walk ten stuff. I'm relieved. Um, you know, it's not that type of well-being. And then I find myself saying that well-being is literally everything else. It's how you feel when you wake up on a Monday morning, it's how you feel after you've made a mistake because we all make mistakes, it's how people greet one another in the corridors, it's all of those things, but essentially it's about self-efficacy. So the best form of well-being is getting to the end of a working week and being able to look back and think, oh my goodness, that was absolute madness, it was chaos, but actually, I or we have made a difference to this particular child or this particular group of children or this particular family. So the highs essentially are around that um that knowledge and that that giving ourselves permission to dwell on the fact that actually, look, this child has moved from here to here. I mean, it's you know, I um I often say to my colleagues at Chesbook, because I'm part-time, I go, I go in once a week, and um, we see the progress of our young people. So, yeah, of course we see their progress in English and maths and literacy and everything else, but actually, if you could measure progress in smiles, um that's how we would measure it. So you've got children who won't make eye contact, who understandably have had the most terrible time in school, deeply, deeply wary, often quite traumatized by their previous school experience. And then gradually, as you build that trust and those relationships and that sort of relentless optimism that we go in with, you know, I but I I am going to keep telling you that I believe in you until you until you believe it yourself, and then just seeing the difference that you make. I think if it if I had to distill the highs in a nutshell, um, and the lows in a nutshell, um, you know, we we we exchanged some messages before this, and you referred to this. Um, someone used the term moral injury the other day, which I thought was an interesting one. Um, Dr. Rachel Briggs talks about compassion stress and compassion stress injury, and it is that thing where we have a set of values, we have passion, we have conviction, which brought us into the profession. We we know what the difference is that we want to make. If we can make it back to the highs, then brilliant, even if it's in really small ways. But if we feel we are pouring our heart and soul into a job and we are just being told not good enough, not good enough, not good enough, not good enough, which is a massive issue with our system. Um, then you know, we're just what's it all for? So so you get to the stage where you know you feel someone once someone said to me when I did my doctorate, which was on balancing teaching and parenthood, you know, I just feel as if I'm letting everybody down all of the time. And that feeling of, well, I'm neglecting my family, my house is a mess, my garden's a mess, I haven't seen my parents often enough recently. I'm pouring everything into this job, and I still feel as if I'm a bit crap.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Yeah, it's like almost like that relentless kind of feeling of like it's never enough. And it's never enough, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 9:26

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

It's so, very difficult. And I think, yeah, I just want to kind of pick up there on yeah, those kind of highs of like for me, I often like to kind of think about, you know, people outside of education, what would surprise them. So, you know, that kind of statement there you made about if we could just measure it in smiles, or you know, kind of like that creation of that safe space for that young person, but that's often not really measured, is it? As explicitly as kind of our other types of data of you know, classroom attendance and you know, attainment at GCSE, key stage two, whatever it be. But again, you know, I'm also kind of thinking systemically, you know, that reality of it kind of makes it very difficult to almost do the job sometimes that you want to do that you know you're good at, the grass is sky high. Um, you know, as you say, you know, you probably haven't eaten properly that week or whatever it be. You know, actually, kind of what else can we give in that moment?

SPEAKER_05 10:24

Absolutely, and and that, you know, there is a PhD topic for somebody here because we we do measure, you know, education support, teacher well-being index, we do measure rates of anxiety, depression, insomnia, alcoholism amongst teachers every single year, and we know that those are significantly higher than that of the general population, so the lows are significantly lower than for many others in the general population. Um, but um, I talk a lot about humour and laughter, um uh and the number of times in a school day when someone just, whether it's a colleague or a young person, just says something daft or just just does something that really tickles you. You know, I'm just thinking one of my one of my students did a rainbow kick. He he tried he tried to put his plastic cup into the recycling bin and uh did a little subtle rainbow kick into the recycling bin, managed to land in the recycling bin, but which we were nice small classes in a class of 30 that might have been quite disruptive, but anyway, he didn't mean any harm. Um, but you know, it just it just really, really tickled me, and I had to, you know, you have to try really hard not to laugh because you've got to treat the situation with the reverence it deserves. Um, but but yes, so I so I wonder it'd be really interesting to measure. You know, we we there there are measures of the number of interactions, the number of decisions that teachers had um had to make in a day, but actually, if there was a measure of the number of times teachers laughed in a day, because I reckon that too would be higher than the general population.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Yes, yes, I believe so. And I think the difficulty is, you know, kind of going back to what you were saying before about you know the idea of the kind of you know emotional toll, emotional labour, compassion fatigue, you know, whatever you want to call it. It does kind of sometimes cast that shadow over the top, doesn't it? And and I think, you know, as human beings, you know, we're almost kind of defaulted into this kind of let's really lap up the negative and let's you know almost end up being fixated by that when actually there is so much amazing stuff happening all around us. You know, we will be laughing during the day. There will be moments where we feel I'm really proud there, you know, those little glimmers that actually aren't little at all, are they? They're huge, exponential. So I guess, you know, really what we can do together as a collective, really to kind of help, you know, again, people like ourselves that are still in teaching, etc., to really think how do we box those up together and how do we support each other as colleagues as well, you know, perhaps when we are having those perhaps lower times.

SPEAKER_05 13:03

And sometimes it's the simplest things. Um, you know, I worked in a school where we used to have um blossoms as they were known at the beginning of every single staff meeting, everybody shared a blossom, and it was something positive that had happened that week, could be absolutely anything. Yeah, um, and we knew it was coming. So I remember stomping around one probably November uh on break duty in the rain, thinking, oh my goodness, yeah, I'd rather be anywhere else. And then I remembered that we had a meeting that that afternoon, and that I was gonna have to think of a bloody blossom in time for the meeting at four o'clock. And and then I started and then I started sort of looking around and thinking back to the beginning of the week, and oh, there's there was that, oh and there was that, and there was that, and there was that. And of course, by the time I got to the meeting, I was in a much better mood. So it is that human negativity bias piece, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 13:51

That you know it really is.

SPEAKER_05 13:53

Um, that as human beings, it's understandable that we seek the negative, um, but can we consciously just dwell on and share those positive moments because they really are worthy, you know. I mean, I and I I often say this, you know, that the the the challenges in teaching are are quite unique, they're quite unusual, um, but it's not the hardest job in the world. It's really not the hardest job in the world. And we are living organisms and we get to work with other living organisms, and for a lot of the time that's really rewarding, and that's really it really is.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

It really, really is. So I think we've touched upon there that kind of concept of you know, trying to consciously think about you know, those kind of positive moments during the day and those sorts of things, which absolutely will support well-being. But is there anything else that you kind of encountered maybe throughout like the research that you did for the book, or just you know, like you know, when you were gathering your own thoughts that you thought, oh, okay, you know, these are the other bits that kind of might help teachers to sort of stay well and you know, almost so that gradually we might be able to see slowly a shift in some of the quite concerning teacher well-being index data, if I'm being honest, you know, it's it makes quite a sobering read, doesn't it? Sometimes when you kind of look through and sort of see all the graphs there and any thoughts in terms of you know what else might be useful? Because I mean, I don't know how many courses I've been on now, where it's have a hot bath and don't forget to walk your dog. Those things are important, but there's a little bit more to it than that, Emma, isn't there?

SPEAKER_05 15:24

Yeah, and and and as I'm considering that question, I'm really wary of falling into that narrative of um teachers, go away and sort it out yourselves. Um there are things that individuals can do, and most of my work is with individuals or groups within schools, so very much, yes, the emphasis is on what you can do for yourself, and I will come back and answer that, but I think it's really important to acknowledge that you know it's the um it's the three layers, isn't it? It's our responsibility for ourselves, it's the organization's culture and responsibility to the people working in that organization, and then there are the wider systemic issues, and whilst I am quite a positive person, I I completely eskew toxic positivity. And if we look at the wider systemic issues and the new Ofsted framework and the number of and just the lack of resources and the lack of funding and the sparkling levels of just need in our communities, you know, we we can't wait for the ship to turn around, but at the same time not to acknowledge you know, and the sheer despair and rage where I am hearing and seeing school leaders um just beside themselves over the latest Ofsted framework. And I'm not saying it isn't necessarily a bad thing in itself, but there is this real sense that you know that the big listen wasn't a lesson at all. What did we learn from and and and so there are some really big systemic issues, but I also say I haven't got a tattoo because I'm too much of a wuss, but if I could get a tattoo, it would be and if it were a bit more of an attractive image, it would be Stephen Covey's circles of control. Oh that's controlling the controllables. I can't change the wider system. I can send a copy of my book to the education secretary. Will they read it? Probably not. You know, I I can't probably not, they should. I can't change those things. What I can do, and I do do, is I work with leaders and leadership teams on the culture and communication in their schools and and and on the real kind of concrete issues of recruitment and retention, and um, you know, the big thing that comes up, and it sounds like such a small thing, but the these things are always they always seem small, um, is that theme of um appreciation that everyone in an organization needs to feel appreciated. You know, people don't come into teaching for an easy life, you know, we can't sugarcoat it anymore. We are asking people to do more with less, and I I would say that for the vast majority of people entering the profession, that is already quite clear. You know, they're not going in for an easy ride. Um, but if they feel that their talents and their values and just their sheer hard work are appreciated, I'm not talking about fanfares and bells and whistles, but that they are seen and heard, and that as they walk through the door of that school at 7:30, 8 o'clock in the morning, they know that they have a part to play in making children's lives a bit better. Um, that is really important. Um, but coming back to the individual, yeah, there's that burning question, isn't there, of what does it take to survive and thrive as a teacher in 2026? And pre-COVID, 10 years ago, if um someone said to me, Oh, I've quite fancy working in a school, I would say, Well, do you like kids? Um, because it's amazing, isn't it? Every now and again, every now and again we meet a teacher who doesn't seem to like children very much, but it's it's quite rare, but it's almost quite memorable. It's like, why did you? Yeah, it really is. But if you like children, then um uh you know, I would have said ten years ago, go for it. Umada, whilst great great teachers come in many shapes and sizes, I think there are certain qualities that are needed, and it's hard to cultivate them. Um, but I think that's about resilience. And I used to have a very strange relationship with the word resilience. Um, but I think we need to embrace the term again. It's not about sucking up the unreasonable, but it's about actually that grit says actually I've had a rubbish day, I've had a rubbish lesson, I can't make the difference I want to make, but I can make this particular difference. Uh, it's about optimism that we have to remain stubbornly optimistic, otherwise, what's the point? And it's about boundaries that actually those realistic boundaries between work and home. Um, so yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Yeah, I totally agree. And you know what? I'm so glad that you've named that. I guess, you know, I think at the moment there's a lot of teacher blame of well, you need to do better, and and your well-being is your responsibility, not ours. But actually, as you say, it's it's difficult, isn't it, when you know, much of the system at the moment is kind of really going against enabling people to kind of be at their optimum and actually where does that responsibility lie? That's a rhetorical question. But I think we both know that the answer isn't with um the individual necessarily. But you know, I really love what you were saying there about I think for me the big word that stands out is being realistic. Actually, you know, what can I achieve today? What can I take away from today where you know I can really still celebrate my successes, but equally understand that those boundaries are critical because what we're being asked to do is is often insurmountable, isn't it? Really?

SPEAKER_05 21:10

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

So I guess the question on my lips, Emma, really, then is how do we support teachers? So, you know, obviously it ticks, you know, same for yourself, you know, we're very much about psychological safety, you know, how we can really support teachers, but yeah, any any thoughts as to you know, maybe what our listeners might be able to do?

SPEAKER_05 21:33

Yeah, so so I think it's always worth acknowledging that, um, and I've said this a few times, I know it sounds controversial and probably unusually negative, um, but it is arguably the most challenging time in living memory to be a teacher, to work in a school, to be a school leader. Um, and there are a number of key factors which are associated with that or which are which are contributing to that, I should say. So, you know, we are speaking on a day when the headlines Are just, you know, whip a whiplash from the news headlines, um, you know, oil prices, just just just international security, massive issue, hatred, division. Um so the world is actually a really, really terrifying place um to be in at the moment. And you know, for the I've got teenage girls, you know, for the last five, six years, that they they are genuinely quite casually talking about when World War III is going to break out and what the operations will be for them, and will they have to go to war and all of these different things, you know, conversations that we never had to worry about, um, really, as we were growing up. So the world is a terrifying place. Um, secondly, COVID, almost line in the sand, so not COVID's fault as such, but it's an interesting line in the sand in that I spoke to someone involved in the COVID-19 social study um in May 2020, and they said if you were in any way at this if you are in any way at a disadvantage before COVID, you are likely to be at more of a disadvantage after COVID. So that's anyone with any kind of disability, any kind of mental health problem, anyone from any kind of um uh minority group, um, anyone who've been subject to any kind of discrimination and so on and so forth. So anyone at a disadvantage before COVID, um socioeconomically as well, um, is likely to be more of a disadvantage after. Um, and then there's the exponential rise in just the needs of our young people, and however you categorize or debate them, you know, the needs of the young people in our schools are are just phenomenal at the moment. And with the best will in the world, every head teacher I'm working with um is struggling with somewhere between four and eight young people who are taking up around 80 to 90 percent of senior leaders' time. You're probably finding the same thing. Um, and then the final factor, well, there are many factors, but the final factor that I would identify here is um the expectations from our communities of schools. Oh massive, massive parents. Um, and you know, we we live in a I want it now society where we can click and have a pizza in 20 minutes, you know, parents with answers from schools now, it's understandable, um, but it's causing a huge amount of stress on on both sides. So there are all these different factors. So so um how how so your question was how can schools or how can we support teachers? I think it comes down to again, it's a huge question, isn't it? Um massive, yeah. So we've talked about boundaries, we've talked about resilience. I think the other thing worth talking about is clarity around clarity of expectations. So one of the things about my school that I have come to really, really, really love is um it's run by um a leadership team who are just so perfectionist about the detail. Though there is a policy for everything, everyone knows exactly what is expected of them from the first five minutes of the working day to the last. Which 20 years ago I probably would have said, Oh, that sounds a bit boring, sounds a bit dull. Can't we just go with the flow? Can't we just wing it? Of course, we are working with young people who are incredibly vulnerable. Um but what the result of that is that creates a huge amount of psychological safety for staff. So I know when I go into school, exactly what is expected of me. I know what my success criteria are, I know what a good lesson looks like, I know what good supervision doing weight duty looks like, I know what a conversation with a child who's outside their window of tolerance looks like. Um, so knowing that clarity of expectations is absolutely key. So that combined with a sense of feeling appreciated for your experience, knowledge, values, and so on and so forth, um, combined with clear boundaries around what is expected, um, you know, expectations of ourselves as well as expectations of one another. So again, my school, you know, there's no point writing an email. So if I wanted to wear school holidays, just a reminder, if I want to write an email to my um to my head teacher, um there's absolutely no point sending it this week because he won't pick his email till he comes back to work. Absolutely, yeah. Or if he does, we will never know about it because precisely emails don't arrive during school holidays or in the evenings.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

And I find it amazing, Emma, that was saying that like that's some sort of incredible, amazing thing, you know, that you wouldn't get an email when you're off work. Like, what profession do you know out there when oh, we know you're off, but here's 42 emails um that you know do you need replying to during your break? Um talking about like that's like this amazing like thing that your school does that's unique. But what scares me is how many schools aren't setting that out in that kind of really clear way, and again, those 24-7 culture expectations that are just never ever turned off. So I'm really glad. And yeah, I mean, okay, we could say, Well, do we need a policy for a policy? But that to me feels so like psychologically containing in a really positive way, you know. And I think often when we know where we stand and what we're doing, it just makes everything just feel so much more achievable.

SPEAKER_05 27:48

Yeah, I and and just to come back to that point about you, so you're so right. So I'm very much a um sausage machine teacher in that I went to school, I went to university, I stayed at university, I went into school. So, really, the world of education was the only one I knew for many, many years, 20 plus years. And then I stepped outside, I started my business, I started working with other organizations, accountants and publishers and charities. And of course, you're absolutely right. If if you get an out-of-office from someone working in accountancy or publishing, that means they are not going to reply to your emails. Exactly. And not in the office. Mind blowing. I know blowing. It's like what what do you this out of office concept? Because in teaching, you'd be like, oh, Sunday evening at five o'clock, or I'll just I'll just reply to that parent because I really should. Well, I'm the only I'm the only person who's there for them, you know.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Oh, they'll be worried if I don't oh no, not at all, not at all. So I guess that leads us beautifully into thinking about leaders. So, you know, if we think about what leaders can do, I'm guessing, Emma, we're kind of feeling there that leaders can be clear, they can kind of set out the frameworks. What else might we do as leaders that makes that genuine difference?

SPEAKER_05 29:10

I mean, I think it is worth pointing out that according to the Education Support Teacher Wellbeing Index, our school leaders are actually the most vulnerable group of all when it comes to those measures of poor well-being, anxiety, poor mental health, and so on and so forth. So I have no truck, in fact, it leadership bashing um on social media drives me absolutely. Um so um, and and the majority of people I coach are actually school leaders, and we do have a line which came from some rubbish um drama that I was watching, which is you're not effing Spider-Man. You are not Spider-Man, you cannot be there for everybody all of the time, however much you might want to. You cannot please everybody all of the time. So the biggest thing, I mean, this is again another huge question, but um, the biggest thing for leaders I would say is around modelling. Umuded to, um, modelling in terms of their expectations of themselves and their expectations of others, um, modelling, um, Dr. Karen Edge talks about this um Global City Leaders Research. Um she talks about uh three things. Um, one is um how fast do you walk around school? Because unless there is an actual emergency, there is no need to run around school. So if you are running, scuttling around school, then take a deep breath and slow down. She talks about how much baggage do you carry into and out of school. Now, in this digital era, it's worth thinking about that baggage more conceptually. Um, but you know, what are you modelling if you're carrying bags and bags and bags of marking out of school? What are you mod modelling? Um and then she also talks about this theme of you know toilets uh that actually many many school leaders in the study that they did um weren't using the toilet at all during the school days. So I'm not suggesting you follow your leadership team to the loo. No, but yeah that modelling, um, modelling of the values, so making those values you know real and lived and humility, compassion, all of those things. So I say modelling is the big that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

So a nice little link back to your lovely book then. I mean, what do you hope that those that will read it will will take away? Like again, big question, but in a nutshell, so you know, as you were writing it, what were you kind of thinking? Oh no, I really hope that those that read this will take this thing away.

SPEAKER_05 31:47

Any thoughts in a nutshell, I am not alone. And I would say isolation and loneliness, despite the fact that we're in a profession when we're we're surrounded by other people, feeling as if you're the only one who's struggling, as if you're the only one who's lying awake at night worrying about that year nine class, as if you're the only one that feels you can't ask to take time off for your uncle's funeral. That actually I hope that people reading it will recognise themselves and their situations in it and feel that actually they're not alone. And here are some strategies and here are some tools and here are some practical ideas for what you can do to give yourself the rewarding and happy career that you deserve because life is short and we deserve to be happy.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

We really, really do. Emma, thank you so much. I wish that this was out. Certainly, I think my first couple of years of teaching all those years ago, genuinely, I I also, like many of us, wouldn't have probably shared with a colleague about my own struggles or any of those sorts of things. So to kind of have, you know, what I'm really envisaging about your book is almost a book as a friend, almost as like a colleague that you, you know, you kind of have, you know, on the bookshelf right there, waiting, waiting to support you, is just so powerful. So thank you so much, Emma, and genuinely for your time today. Um, I know this episode is gonna serve so many people really well. Um, is there anything else that you know you want to tell our listeners, Emma, in terms of where we can find the book, how we can access it?

SPEAKER_05 33:20

Um, yes, um the the the best way of getting the book is actually on Amazon. Um I thought you were gonna say that. Yes, uh yes, the way it is. Um, yes, it's currently on on sale there at the moment, so that is the easiest way. And you can find me online. Um uh those hyphen that hyphen can dot com.

unknown 33:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:45

Say that again. Those hyphen that hyphen can dot com. Uh, you can find me online, and I'm on LinkedIn these days. I used to spend a lot of time on Twitter. Yeah. Rest in peace, lovely Twitter.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Absolutely. We escaped while we could.

SPEAKER_05 34:01

I'm now on the grown-up version, which is LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

Super. And so we'll pop those in the show notes for everybody as well, Emma. So your uh the link to your profile in case anybody has any other questions, and also the trusty Amazon link as well. But thank you so much for your time today, Emma.

SPEAKER_05 34:18

My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

Thank you so much for joining us. To learn more, visit the Trauma Informed Consultancy Services website. We'll see you next time.