Coffee and Coaching
Real coaching conversations for real life and career moments. Coffee & Coaching brings you authentic dialogue with expert coaches about the challenges professionals face every day - from career transitions and burnout to boundaries and leadership. No scripts, just practical insights you can use immediately. Grab your coffee and join the conversation.
Coffee and Coaching
EP.14: What Adult ADHD Looks Like
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
ADHD coach Cathy Rashidian joins coach Karol Figueroa to break down why traditional time management doesn’t work for neurodivergent professionals and what to do instead.
Learn how to shift from time management to energy management, identify the hidden workplace patterns (like the Architect, Rescuer, and Imposter) that keep you stuck, and understand why burnout is often a sign of deeper misalignment. Cathy also introduces the concept of “Vitamin A” (executive function) and “Vitamin B” (identity + boundaries) as the key to sustainable performance.
Whether you have ADHD, suspect you might, or lead neurodivergent teams, this episode will help you work with your brain—not against it.
Connect with today’s guest, Cathy Rashidian
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathyrashidian/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@cathyrashidian
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/proudlyadhd_coachcathy/
Meet your host: Karol Figueroa
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karolfigueroa/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/karol.figueroa.tate/
Need support at work? HIK Trainings can help.
Website: https://www.hiktrainings.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hiktrainings/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hiktrainings
Intro
SPEAKER_05What are we noticing out there in the world as we're coaching what's happening in the streets? So we came up with a few patterns. So we have five of them. There's the architect, the rescuer, the visionary, the adapter, and the imposter. The more my state is in chaos, the more the interruptions were coming out. I'm impulsive now. So this is the part that I like to really say is there is a reason why we talk about regulation and paying attention and we talk about metacognition, which is self-awareness. I'm not one to be like, Carol, slow down. You're going too fast. You're gonna burn out eventually, right? Because you're not gonna listen to me. People with ADHD don't like to be told what to do. And when they come in coaching, we're not telling them what to do, but it's more of a I'll hold a beer back to you.
SPEAKER_02Hello, hello everyone, and welcome back to Coffee and Coaching. I am your host, Carol Figueroa. I have to be completely honest with you, this is one of the most amazing conversations I've ever had. I recently been diagnosed as ADHD, and to have an ADHD coach and know that they exist has been the most amazing, incredible experience of my life. When you have a neurodivergent and you have to show up at work, you're always trying to do your best to support your team. And if you are a professional that has ADHD, being diagnosed with AHD, or suspect that you do, this conversation is for you. I am thrilled to announce Kathy Rashidian. She is an ADHD coach, professional, and content creator. Today we're getting together to talk about the guilt and the shame and the overdrive of neurodivergent people, especially high achievers. We're breaking down five hidden workplace behavioral patterns. And she's gonna bring us her actual archetypes that she teaches her clients. So this is absolutely a do not miss conversation. Let's dive right in. Hello, LinkedIn, hello YouTube, hello Facebook. We're expanding our reach. This is amazing. Uh I am so thrilled and excited uh to talk about today's episode. So whether you are an ADHD professional, diagnosed or believe you are, and have been, I will call it semi-diagnosed because that's how I found out the harsh truth of my reality. But if you've been diagnosed with ADHD, or you know someone around you in your life that has ADHD or you suspect that they have it, or you have a manager, a leader that is ADHD, or an employee, this episode is absolutely for you. And I cannot emphasize how thrilled I am to have Kathy here. Kathy is an ADHD coach and professional, content creator, business owner. And I am just thrilled to have you here, Kathy, because you have been so insightful. And I've been following you on YouTube in a non-cree way, just for my own personal gain. And your content is amazing. I might quote a couple of videos, shorts that you you had recently that I'm like, oh my God, that's so genius. Like this is me. So welcome to Coffee and Coaching Podcast. It's a pleasure to have you.
SPEAKER_05Thank you, Carol. I'm so glad to be here. I I really enjoyed our conversation when we spoke previously. So let let's let's get going. Let's let's unravel it all, uh, put it out there and see what comes up.
SPEAKER_02Let's do that. So let's start with ADHD professionals. And you said something
ADHD Coaching vs. Psychotherapy
SPEAKER_02really important, Lou, before we started a call, which is ADHD coaches, and then there's the role of the psychotherapist when it comes to ADHD. And there's like a very clear line. And you said something about ADHD coaching and a line that we don't cross. Do you want to share that with the audience?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and actually, what a good way to kind of set the stage for what we're sure to do and what we're not gonna do. Um, so one thing I'll I'll say as we we're having this conversation, I beg of the listeners, the audience, is do not diagnose yourself based on this conversation. You may find a few different um aha's and relatability to us and as we share our story. But also I want you to pay attention to what's ours is ours and what's yours, it's yours, and it needs to be handled with care with the right professionals.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So with coaching, with those of us who are well trained, follow ethics of International Coach Federation, follow the standards of PAC, which is a professional association for coaches, we know our um parameter where we begin and end. So that fine line of what is coaching is truly about supporting, not helping, we're not helpers here, we're supporters, we're thinking partners, we're co-creators in coming together and moving you forward in this world of what got you here may not be the thing that's gonna get you there, as Marshall Goldsmith talks about in his book. So so we're about supporting you in redefining your path forward. You're sitting at a crossroads in your career, you're looking at your ADHD, going, is it me? Is it my ADHD? What parts of it are the brain? What parts of it are me at my core, at my beliefs? So we we don't go into the diagnosis. The diagnosis is there, no problem, it can be there. But for us, it's about moving forward. Where the therapists come in, where the professionals in mental health come in, which I'm so grateful for, is those nuances of one of the things I always say is ADHD often does not come alone. It usually comes with its siblings, I like to say. So a lot of uh the clients that we serve, it's ADHD autism, ADHD dyslexia, ADHD anxiety. Mine is ADHD depression. So knowing that there's these complexities as coaches, it is absolutely important for us to kind of distinguish where we begin and end and where the therapists come in. And having this ecosystem of support for the for the person, because it's just not one thing. So that's that's the the disclaimer, I guess, of this conversation that we're gonna put there.
SPEAKER_02And and what I love the most about about what you're talking about for me, I'm so I'm officially diagnosed. I went through a professional diagnosis because for the longest part, I have, you know, done the tests and the assessments and the companies. At least when I was at Microsoft, they will do like a test for you to test neurodivergent. And like, you know, ADHD, I think I I broke the thing. Like they were like, you know, you're not even at a hundred. Our partners sometimes diagnose us, like my husband's always like kind of pointing out, like, do you realize you're doing this? And I'm like, nope, not at all. It's just happening. But what I love about what you just shared,
Navigating the Guilt and Shame of an ADHD Diagnosis
SPEAKER_02and I want to talk a little bit about uh ADHD professionals and the guilt that we carry, because there's a lot of like guilt that also comes from it. So we can like touch on that a little bit. But I also, for me, when I think about like ADHD diagnosis and like knowing, it just allows you to then start working on it. And I love that you said, hey, this is my ADHD acting up, right? Like when we do strength finders coaching, we talk a lot about your natural-born talents. And hey, is it you that you're speaking, or is it your natural-born talent, which is your brain pushing you to do things that you feel naturally thinking, feeling, or behaving a certain way? So I love that you brought that up. Uh can I going into the guilt piece, right? Uh, is that something you see a lot when you're coaching people with ADHD? Like there's a lot of guilt that gets carried because our brains and the way we operate is just not typical.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. It's oh there's so many things uh in addition to guilt. There, there's guilt, there's shame, there is um excitement, there is uh, there is oh, opportunity. What can I do with this? Um, so the the the the emotion wheel, I always have it at my desk. Because we go through all the different emotions. We're like, oh, fun is this right now. So resentment, the the what ifs, oh, had I if I'd known earlier, would I have done my life differently? So with ADHD comes the wheel, it's like we wear it close to us. As we go through the different stages of life, I think there's different feelings and emotions get unlocked and we process and we move forward. So, yeah, absolutely. The guilt is there. The I will be found out is there. What if they find out? Because on the surface, those of us that that high performers have kind of moved up the corporate ladder, we can look like we got our shit together. But underneath, we're like we are like dangling and we're like, oh my god, what if somebody finds them?
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes, yes. I feel that so deeply in so many levels. Like, because for me, you know, you are not you as well, right? You're both an ignose and like believe it's my superpower, right? Like it brings a lot of like super strengths, but it also brings with great power, come, you know, brings right great responsibility. I want to talk about this high achieving thing because I I've met a lot of ADHD, and I think that also there's a difference between ADHD, and I think we talked also about the difference between hyperactivity versus not hyperactivity. Would love for you to talk a little bit more about that, and then we can dive in deeper into the high achieving. Because I know a lot of high achieving ADHD professionals, like a lot.
SPEAKER_05When initially I got my training on ADHD, there was a section uh in training that said
The Three Types of ADHD & Ebbing with Life Stages
SPEAKER_05there's three types: the inattentive, the ones that are sitting in dreamland that may be looking out the window and they're gone. And you're talking to them, you're like, Sally, right. I was back just to the conversation. The dreamers, the the so the inattentives, and then there's the hyperactives. The hyperactives are and not necessarily just physical hyperactivity where they're constantly need to move. There's also cognitive hyperactivity, which kind of goes across. And then there's the combined. So I held on to that three categories for a while till I met Dr. Russell Barclay, who I adore, who is now retired, who's been doing this work for years and years and years. And in in the conversation with him, I really appreciated how he said, depending on stages of life, we kind of ebb and flow through some of this. So let me bring it on. Let me bring on perimenopause people. We're gonna go there right away and then we're gonna come back to it again later. We actually have a topic coming in a couple of weeks for that. So that's awesome. At this stage in my life, I feel like I'm more on the inattentive side of things because of what my hormones are doing to me. It's very unfair what's happening, what is happening. And I'm more on the inattentive side. So I'm more, I think a lot more. I'm more, I'm not as impulsive to take action. I sit back, I process a lot more. Younger years, I used to be hyperactive like it was nobody's business. I could not stay still. I was constantly on the go. Just thinking about myself, I would get tired of myself. So just knowing those different ways that we ebb and flow, depending on life stages, being a mother, changing career, childhood, all of that. So I want to take that into consideration that with when we talk about performance and high achievers, there's also this side of us. So ADHD to me is a spectrum. And and I and you've I've talked to you about this before. I don't buy into the superpower narrative because there's days where it really kicks my ass and it's my worst enemy. And then there's days where it's my best friend and I'm doing amazing creative things. So having that that awareness of it's across the board, it's different for everybody, I think sets a more realistic stage that we could be high functioning, high performing rather, and keep going. And then there's days where we plummet and we just want to sit on the couch and do nothing but Netflix.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like that that's me, especially because I love Netflix. So that makes sense. So how so question on that?
High Achievers in Overdrive & Hitting the Tipping Point
SPEAKER_02How do you help high achievers recognize, you know, because we like I always operate in overdrive, right? Like most of the time. And then I realized I missed a bunch of stuff around the way. But, you know, how do you help those high achievers like recognize, hey, it's time to step out of overdrive and start optimizing how you do things? Because sometimes when we're in that overdrive, we can like get ver burnout really easily. And burnout is like a really health crisis right now. And we're really, through this podcast, bringing more awareness to people on that burnout piece. So I guess how do you help those high achiever ADHD realize that it's time to shift?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, we talk about downshifting because we're so on fast go all the time. And it's important to recognize that so let me back up a bit. Let me thousand thoughts are coming at once. I'm trying to filter out my own ADHD brain at the moment. I thrived in that overdrive for myself in my career. And the the types of people that we attract are are exactly in that overdrive, going fast, can't slow down, but a tipping point happens that brings them to okay, this is not sustainable anymore.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05In that moment, just even the recognition of it's not sustainable anymore, it's like first step. Yes. Do you want to do something about it? Now, here's the thing if somebody's in that overdrive, loving it, enjoying it, I'm not one to be like, Carol, slow down. You're going too fast. You're gonna burn out eventually, right? Because you're not gonna listen to me. And also, as I as it is, people with ADHD don't like to be told what to do. So when we cut when they come in coaching, we're not telling them what to do, but it's more of a I'll hold a beer bag to you. Yes. This is what you this is what I'm seeing. Do you see? And Carol goes, Holy shit, yes, I see. And sorry, for those that are watching and sensitive to language, I do have colorful language. I apologize for you. I love that. Yes.
SPEAKER_02So we encourage authenticity here.
SPEAKER_05And an empath comes out. When we're holding that mirror is to truly, for the first time, Carol gets to see herself. And then the thing that I like to say is, okay, this is where you are now, awareness. What part of this makes sense for you? What part of it do you want to change at all, if anything? Carol says, you know what? I like this fast paced. This is what I'm used to. It I don't know any other way. And also, some of us don't know any other way. My narrative for the longest time was I work best under stress. And I loved it, right? How many of us relate to that? I loved it to the point that at 35, when I got diagnosed with cancer, my body said, okay, what's happening here? You need to slow down. So my aim is that I don't want you to experience that, but who am I to say what you should or should not experience? But go eyes wide open. Yeah. That if we make conscious choices towards that, I'm gonna go in overdrive for how long? At what cost? When is it gonna be okay to slow down? And when is it gonna be able to push forward? So when it comes to hyperfocus
Intentional Hyper-Focus and Planning for Recovery Time
SPEAKER_05for me, these days, my hyperfocus segments are very intentional. I actually intentionally go into hyperfocus, get a lot of stuff done, do them in a few days. And then, Carol, what I'm doing is recovery time. Before that recovery time, it was labeled as shame, guilt. Why can't I keep it consistent throughout the week? Now looking back, I look at it, I'm like, what was I thinking? Nobody can sustain that. And also your brain can't sustain that level of dopamine rising. It needs to come back down. So being able to kind of have this conversation around intentionally setting this path for you versus the reactivity, the impulsivity kicks in, the hyperactivity kicks in for Carol, and she keeps going. So that intentional moving forward, I think it's the first step. And then to how much of that do you want to keep and how much of it you want to let go? So you're making the choice.
SPEAKER_02And I love that you brought that up because intentionality is my word for this year. Everybody has like a word as my word. And it's because I want to put intention behind everything that I'm doing, but also intention towards my breaks. And like something that I realized is like my breaks need to be as much as creative breaks as it needs to physical breaks. Because I know I'm a strength finders coach, my number five since election, like solitude, isolation re-energizes me. Period. And we talked about this because we're both introverts. And and the myth of ADHD people are not introverted, it's like one of the biggest myths I've ever heard. I'm like, I don't think that's how it works. So for me, that intention of having to pause and putting like time frames for it. There was something you shared with me, and I want you to talk about it because it has changed my last couple of months, thanks to you. And I don't think you know because I never told you. I want you to talk
Time Management vs. Energy Management
SPEAKER_02about time management versus energy management.
SPEAKER_05Oh, well, what did you get out of it, Carol?
SPEAKER_02You got worse. What happened? Like you said that and we were just it was a first-time meeting, it was a brief interview, it was a brief conversation, but you said so many things that I still have notes from. And it I'm like, it was so selfish. I'm like, this is not for the podcast, this is for me. I'm like, and one of the things that you mentioned, um, I talked to you about time blocks and how I block my time and I never honor it. Like I putting a time block in my calendar is a gentle reminder that might get done or might not get done. And you talked about energy management and how to manage towards your energy. And so I would love for you to tell the audience, obviously, because what I took from it is I stopped feeling guilty about those time blocks after a conversation. So we'll love for the audience to ignore that.
SPEAKER_05It's interesting. Um, when people come to us for coaching, they say, okay, time management, productivity, prioritization, like all these doing things. Um, and and I like to burst that bubble immediately to say, if you came to us for the time management approach, we're not the coaches for you because we don't do that.
SPEAKER_03Love that.
SPEAKER_05And right, because I mean, if we were, we'd be millionaires. If we had solved that problem for everybody, then they got seriously. And to me, that's a bit of snake oil because everybody's different. Your rhythm as a woman, as a mother, as a father, a single dad going through job changes, time is energy, right? So for me, I look at it as, and also this quote that I got a long time ago handed to me managing our state before managing our to-do list, right? Is me showing up and what's going on with Kathy today, what's realistic before I go into time blocking. So the energy management for me is at any given point, I'm checking in. Do I have brain capacity for today? How much capacity do I have for today? Is it 50%? Like literally in the morning. If I've got my little girl freaking out in the morning, not wanting to go to school, 9 a.m., I'm starting my brain capacity at half full. So what's reasonable? Because already I've depleted half of it regulating myself. And being a parent with ADHD is double whammy for us. Truly it is, right? Because we've got to manage ourselves, manage the little kiddos, all of that stuff. So that energy management becomes more important. I had a, I worked with a client once. He's like, Mondays, I come in, I've blocked it off, I'm gonna get shit done, I'm doing this, and I sit there and I'm just staring at my computer. Okay, what were you doing on the weekend? Well, usually Saturdays is with family, Sundays with the in-laws. He doesn't get along with the in-laws. So all Monday, Sunday, he's draining, he's regulating, and all of that. So that residual goes over to Monday. So just then stating that, oh crap. So Mondays, I'm actually not full tank. I'm recovering from all this dysregulation that happened on every Sunday. So then it's a heart to heart with self-book. Then what's reasonable on Monday? Self-care a little bit. And I cannot stand that phrase, but I'll say it. The self-care part is what do I need right now to recalibrate, to come to self? In his case, it's just pen to paper. He does a mind map of what he's gonna do this week, or somebody could be, I'm gonna go for a walk. So that intention setting, right? So we go back to the basics of let me just reground myself. I think as ADHDers, truly, I can say we're constantly feet are dangling in the air. Get grounded is super important. So literally, feet in the grass, go for a walk. It'll mean the world to us to be able to just ground myself. And I there's breathing techniques that doesn't work for me. I need I need to be like, I clean the house. That works for me. So something that says, let me ground myself before I can get into that day. So those are the ways that I talk about energy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think about you cleaning the house. I'm like, my my husband would love for that to be my grounding mechanism. But for I love that you said that because I just talked to another coach. Uh, she's gonna be one of our guests uh to talk about menopause and perimenopause. And she basically told me, I haven't worked on Monday in 10 years. And she's like, I have she has her own business and also works for locally and has a job like everybody else, but the way she does her schedules and the way she works her thing is Mondays, she's not working because Mondays is her recharge day. All weekend she's been with the child, with the husband, with the family, with like giving energy, and that Monday is her recharge day. So I just love that and the intentionality. And one of the examples that for ADHD, uh, because I literally just talked to someone, one of my daughter's teachers constantly references ADHD. And for me, a constant work that I do, even in this podcast, is not interrupting. It's so like the the interruption thing is is so real. I am intentionally right now, as this life is going out, not interrupting. And that's one of the reasons. One of my tips for it, it is like I keep a notebook with notes because I am afraid I'm gonna forget what I'm gonna say. So I make notes so I don't interrupt. Sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. But at least I know that it's something that I'm constantly working on, especially on a podcast. You can't like be interrupting every time. So you it has helped me to have to hold back, even in conversations. But that intentionality that you put behind it is so important. Uh, and it for me, it has removed a lot of the guilt and shame that I feel from not being able to follow what I used to call social cues, is probably other people's can't.
SPEAKER_05The interruption one was the one that that got my diagnosis. I keep interrupting people, like it's nobody's business. Like I'm sitting in boardrooms with CEOs, and at the time I was doing tech stuff, and I would get excited in these meetings, right? Like even right now, if we were unfiltered, both of us would be interrupting each other left, right, and center, no problem. And the conversation will keep going. Culturally, it would even make sense for us. Why wouldn't we do this? So we'd just be doing it, right? But in those settings, in those social cues, absolutely, and and here's the thing the more my state is in chaos, the more the interruptions were coming out. Wow. Because I'm like, I'm impulsive now. So this is the part that I like to really say is there is a reason why we talk about regulation and paying attention and we talk about metacognition, which is self-awareness, is to be able to see, okay, what's happening to me today, what's happening this week. And I'm almost like predicting that I may be a total gong show in a meeting because I've had a crappy week. So I'm just gonna unleash. And now here's the thing I don't want to give a bad rep to our professionals that we're like unleashed and we're just all over the place. It's just that in that moment when it's built up so much, you go to a key meeting, this happens to you. You come out going, dang, I missed the cues. I should have, I could have, I could have, da da da, right? So then that becomes your new story and you carry that with you. And that's the part is how much of this story do we want to edit down, edit down. You're writing a book. How much of it do we want to edit down to get to the core of you? That that's the core that you can go and show and present, and you're always gonna be in integrity. Because the last thing I want to do is to mask to hide who you are, but also knowing that this beautiful brain of ours needs nurturing where we can go out.
SPEAKER_02Yes. And I I love all of this. I I have I have some questions because I can keep going because it's so selfish.
SPEAKER_05Diverge into many things.
SPEAKER_02But yes, yes, yes. So um, so let's talk about we talked about intentionality and let's call it intentional leadership, right? Like we you mentioned some of the women we do intentional leadership. Yeah. So how do we transition from just overachieving to that like intentional leadership when leading people? Um, and then I'm gonna ask you some questions about some traits that we see in the workplace today.
SPEAKER_05Yes, the traits. Intentionality, again, I go back to name it to tame it, which therapists love that that phrase. But I truly think it's important to first
Recognizing the Cycle of Proving, Over-Functioning, and Crashing
SPEAKER_05recognize what are your patterns, what are the things that that get you into trouble, if you will. And it this this particular part is not one you do by yourself. Because if you do it by yourself, you're gonna go into overthinking, you're gonna go to rumination, catastrophization, all of these things. And I don't last thing I want you to do is create these labels for yourself. But there is this cycle that I see happening, the overfunctioning cycle. We go in proving. Okay, so that there's like one, two, three, four, five. There's five things. We we go in proving, feeling the need to prove, right? We're in there. First 90 days, first 30 days, just got promoted, got it, amazing. I get recognized now. Let me prove. Then we go into this overfunctioning. In the overfunctioning, we're like, we become the rescuer, the the whatever, the adapter. I'll give you those after uh uh when we talk about the characteristics. So we go into these personas and we give it our all because it's exciting, it's novel, it's new. ADHD is stimulated.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_05Then the dopamine goes out. Anna Lemke, author of Dopamine Nation, a book that I love, near dear to my heart. What goes up must come down, she says. So as your dopamine is surging and you're keeping it, it has to come back down, right? That intensity your brain cannot hold on to for too long. Crash on the other side, it feels like withdrawal. For me, it was depression. It was just shut down. Because my brain goes, I need to recover, man. You've been going at it for three months straight. It needs to stop. So the crash happens, then right after that, the shame happens. Right? So then we go into that shame cycle, we're feeling guilty, inadequate. See, I went to prove myself, I suck at this, and then the cycle repeats itself. So we to pull out of shame is okay, I'm gonna go back proving again. So you see how it just kind of keeps going. For me, that that first step of it is to pay attention to that pattern, Carol. Yeah, right? Yeah, and each stage of that, when you're an overdrive, when you're sitting in overfunctioning, when you're sitting in shame, what are the things you need to do to kind of check in? So creating some sort of uh criteria around great, when I'm gonna crash and burn, these are the things I'm gonna do. So the cycle, it's not one to push aside and say it'll never happen. It'll happen again and again. This is how our brain is bullshit. How you go through it, right? It's how you go through it with intention that you know what, I will have crash days, burnout days, but this is what I'm gonna do. This is my recovery plan. So to have that recovery plan all the time, my brain goes, Kathy has a map, great. We know what to do when we get to the side of it. In the absence of having the map, then it's the depressive, abrupt resignation, yours truly, the impulsive decisions that we make, the internalization that we do.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_05So recognize your patterns, don't do it alone. I always say don't do it HD alone, do it with a thinking partner that goes, what do you see? Now, mentoring coaches when they're becoming coaches, the mentoring side is to show, Carol, here's what I'm seeing the way you're coaching. How do you like that? What do you want to change about it? Right? Yes. That reflective view, super important. Then you can reset with more data without a thinking partner. And I'm not pitching any sort of like you could be your best friend. Somebody who can hold that space for you. That says, Carol, honest to goodness, this is what I'm noticing. So that Carol can decide what she wants to change about it.
SPEAKER_02I I just there's so much goodness here, and I have to read some comments before I forget. So Eddie says, love the language. Uhcaris is asking energy management versus time management, tell us more. So glad that we cover that. And then Laura's talking about stopping ourselves from interrupting. It's like trying to hold on a border fully back in a herding from a herding of a flock. I I Laura, you had me at hello. Yes, this is all of us. I do the this piece of the pattern recognition, that is so big. Like it's so big. Because for me, as a person that saw this burnout, I go through months. So what I heard you say is some people do months of that hyperactivity. And some people go days and then the next day, and it's just it just keeps going. And I think that the pattern recognition of that is so important. Um, because I I I I'm just thinking, reminiscing about myself and some leaders and some employees with ADHD that I had, um, what companies tend to do is that they call it disengagement. You're disengaged, uh, there's a lot of disengagement. You used to go 120%, and now you're just doing a hundred or eighty. And that really hurts me because for me, I have had in in my career in the past where my past managers from this employee did not know that it was neurodivergent. And when I come in a month in, it's like they're neurodivergent. And they're like, really? It's like you work with this person for 10 years and you did not know this person was neurodivergent, right? So just to get to know your employees, get to know the people you work with and understand. And this leads me to my next question.
SPEAKER_00Before we continue, a quick shout out to today's sponsor, HIK Trainings. If you're ever wanting to level up your leadership skills or bring real connection back to your remote team, check out HIKTrainings.com.
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SPEAKER_00And we're back. You're listening to Coffee and Coaching, where we blend real conversations with real growth. Let's jump in.
SPEAKER_02How do you how does it look like to have an employee with ADHD? If I was a manager, right, do not diagnose, no one, please, no one diagnose. But if I were to have a diagnosed ADHD employee working for me, what will that look like as a meter manager? And what are some of the things I need to pay attention to?
SPEAKER_05Okay. So this one I want to go to my notes because this is fresh off the press, actually. I have been working on this concept for a few years. It actually started with a really good colleague of mine, Sherry Chan and kudos to her, where her and I kind of put our brains together and seeing what are we noticing out there in the world as we're coaching what's happening in the streets. So we came up with a few, I don't want to call them the old marketer in me would say personas. But I call them patterns. So we have one, two, three, four, five of them. The patterns
The 5 Workplace Patterns: Architect, Rescuer, Visionary, Adapter, Imposter
SPEAKER_05that we see. There's the architect, and I'll explain that in a second, the rescuer, the visionary, the adapter, and the imposter. Now, this is even if you don't have ADHD, if you have a brain and you may have a certain style, right? As coaches, we like to kind of categorize things and find patterns within things. And this is where RS comes in. So again, I'm not diagnosing or labeling this as this is the box you're in, but listen to some of the themes, if you will. So the architect type goes, if I build the perfect system, I won't fall apart. So they're constantly going after building detailed systems, take over projects, strong leadership, has a hard time adapting actually to change because they've built it. Yeah. This is my system. Don't mess around with it. So in in boardrooms, when they go to present, it's not accepted. They have a really hard time. Well, why? Why not? Right? Because nobody came along the journey. They're just ta-da, here's what I've built. And they have a hard time delegating because they really want to stay within the system that they have built.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I I already have one ADHD example in my head that came up.
SPEAKER_05You know, think about that. Are you the architect type? Because you could have a few patterns.
SPEAKER_02Yes, please. And if you have questions, please put them on the chat.
SPEAKER_05So then the rescuer, this is yours truly. I was that. Literally, Carol, I kid you not. Before my diagnosis, I had a little caricature at my desk who was a woman with a fire with a fire hydrant. I called myself the fire, self-appointed fire marshal. Oh, wow. Who's the rescuer? And I loved it because you will tell me in a department, let me come fix it. Other departments, let me come fix it. So here's the thing though. The narrative is if I'm indispensable, I'm safe. Right? So they're constantly looking for what can I fix? Who can I help? They may come across as impatient. Yours truly, Bolinda Shina Shaw. Rarely ask for help because I'm the rescuer. I'll figure it out, right? Doesn't recharge until forced to. Hello, critical illness. And it's all about that whole people pleasing. I want to make sure everybody's taken care of. Let me hug, warm. I'll be there for everybody. The visionary, this this one I like to say it's a bit of if you're sitting on the inattentive side of ADHD, this is your sweet spot. Again, I'm not hard putting anybody in any box. It's just these are the patterns I'm seeing. The visionary says the idea is exciting part. The rest I'll figure it out later. And this part, once they have the idea, then they forget that I can bring on a support system to help me execute. So they stay with, I won't ask for help because it was my idea.
SPEAKER_03And then they're sitting here going, I can't slightly noodling on it. Oh my god. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So they've they've also built a half grave, pardon me, a graveyard of half-built ideas. My basement, my projects, my hobbies.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yes. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So, and they're most alive when there's a pitch, there's a brainstorm, there's think tanks. They want to go in there. They want to be in those places. Yeah. I want to ask them to execute. They don't want to execute.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I know one idea example to come into my mind.
SPEAKER_05Then we get to the adapter, and we're almost done here with this. The adapter says, if I can read the room fast enough, no one will figure out the chaos that is underneath all of me. So they're constantly the masking, avoiding conflict. The decision making is slow because they want to make sure everybody's taken care of. They're the Sally, do you understand what we're doing? So they're overextending their social intelligence, which is their strength, to the point to their detriment. So they'll they'll they won't make final decisions because they want to make sure everybody's okay. Yeah. They're adapting to everybody. The imposter. This one I think for all of us is there, and this is the last one. The imposter says, I have to work twice as hard or they'll find me out, right? So they create detailed personal rules for themselves, they work faster than anyone else. What else? What else? Never celebrates their successes. Because we've always isn't anything like that. You're talking about me now. You're talking about me. And self-esteem is entirely tied to output. Self-esteem tied to output, right? More doing than being. So to me, I'm I'm curious actually. Are you able to see comments live with the people tracking?
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes, we are. We have we have someone said talking more about grinding after meeting and replenishing energy before starting a new project. So I'm curious to see. Uh, I'm waiting for Jessica to point in if anybody feels like there are a particular archetype. I will tell you that imposter one is a hundred percent me. And I think the architect, which is like, I'm gonna put all the pieces together. And then when someone moves the cheese, it's like, hold up, you can't move the cheese because I have a format. I have something that it has has been working. And definitely the imposter. I feel like if I if I outwork everything and everyone, like no one's gonna notice that I'm struggling with attention. Yeah. And for me, also something I struggle, and this is the part I don't know if Corporate America will be for me again, but the constant being on phone calls from from eight to five and a call and then another call and then another call, like it's just like for me, my attention spam, I'm like, I'm dying, right? Uh literally, it's just felt like that many times. We have a question though. Uh, can individuals fall under more than one category? They say that they see themselves in a couple of those components.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, 100%. That's why I say I don't want you to put yourself in one of the boxes because these are patterns. And depending on projects, who you're talking to, you may pull out a different you in a in a situation. In family life, you may be completely showing up differently. And here's the thing. So if
Managing Employees with ADHD
SPEAKER_05you have talent that fits into these as a manager, so if I was your boss, Carol, the best thing is, Carol, I'm noticing X, Y, and Z. I'm noticing that this is going on. You're working extra hours or the the you're you're kind of in friction with the project. What's coming up for you? And the coach approach, I so wish that everybody who's in leadership went through some sort of coach training program because it's the conversation that that kind of cracks the the shield and says, okay, let's go. We we can partner in this to do it together. Yeah. Carol feels psychologically safe to have a conversation with Kathy. Then Carol can access her own wisdom and say, oh, okay, so on this one I can do this, on this one I can do this. Here I'm overthinking this. You're not expecting this tomorrow, Oscar. Yes. I wasn't expecting it tomorrow, nor the next day. Okay, because we'll sit in our own interpretation and our own assumptions more often than not, especially those with with neurodivergence. Because of all that has happened to us throughout our lives, we have like this backpack of goodies that we're carrying. Yes. Every conversation, we're coming in with these biases, with these assumptions, interpretations, and with this with this new information.
SPEAKER_02Okay. I love that.
What it Looks Like When the Leader has ADHD
SPEAKER_02How does it look like when you have a manager with ADHD? Bless your heart.
SPEAKER_03For those of you that that work with Elf, we love you. I feel like I need a letter to every employee I ever had.
SPEAKER_02I'm like, I am so sorry. I actually, the first chapter of the book I'm writing, um, uh, it's it starts with a story about how this employee told me once, hey, you're you're kidding you're killing us here, right? And I was like, what do you mean? I'm I'm doing we're doing great. We're thriving. We're doing like all these things. Um now looking back and knowing what an ADHD leader can look like and the effects of it if you're not aware of it. I am very aware of I was definitely not doing them any favors. So tell me a little bit more. What does it look like to have an a leader that is an ADHD?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and it goes the same goes to the other way, right? Is leaders are human beings. We're just as human as everybody else, right? So the candid conversations go a long way, is to have the conversation of, hey, in the meeting, you gave me 20 new ideas, which we do. When we get together with our teams, 20 new ideas are ugly as important and it looks like we need to execute on all. And it's to check in of these, which ones do you want me to work on for the next quarter? Or which ones should be be the one that that we put 80% of our energy into. So truly have the heart to heart because that what you're actually doing to that neurodivergent leader is becoming a thinking partner with them to for them to go, oh, okay, yeah, here's how we we think we can do this. So I would say, and this was early on in my career that VPs, just because they have a title, it doesn't mean that they talk a certain way. No. Human-to-human conversation goes a long way. Yes. Right? Yes. And it's truly to disarm, break that power dynamic, I beg of you, because that person is also just as caring about what's going on with you and also may not notice there's certain things that they went too fast and you need to come along the journey. Right. So the the have to have a meeting with you to understand this a little bit more on that side. Sometimes in these meetings, I I see my my executives. Oh, Kathy, I've got the meeting planned out. I have an agenda. Great. Because before, let's say this person didn't do an agenda. Yes. The agenda is packed. I'm like, okay, great. You have an agenda, but you have an hour and now you put 20 things in there. How are people supposed to process all of this?
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_05So going back to your leader to say, great, I see the agenda has 20 things in it. What's my role in this? Yes. What's my team members' role? So having these truly heart-to-heart conversations about clarity. About how did we get here? Can you give me two steps on how we got here? We are open to that. It's just when we present, we present in such a way that almost cuts people off to like, well, I shouldn't question, but nope.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, with the energy and the enthusiasm.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, can we come in so attached to it, but we're not really if that conversation is opened up.
SPEAKER_02And I'll I'll say this too for me, at least as a leader with ADHD, it has helped me a lot to use AI for a lot of things. I'm not uh, you know, AI is gonna replace every human being on the world. Like, no, but I'm talking about you have an agenda, you have 20 things on that agenda, tell AI what you're trying to do, tell AI you have 45 minutes for this meeting, and tell them how many people it's like I remember I was doing this presentation and I was like, and I want to talk about this, and I want to talk about this, and it was a three-hour session, and I'm like, I had all this. I was they were gonna leave being the best leaders that they ever wish they could be, right? And uh, as I'm planning, I was like, let me put this on AIC how I can spread the time. And they were like, this is too much, right? And and so it's asking the right questions, preferably Claude is one of my favorite uh AI tools. So, like, but just like at times, if you don't have that partner immediately next to you that can verify those things for you, another human that can be like, Hey, this is the right thing, like, try to have those AI coaching conversations for it so it can help you divide. The agenda and the time of the meeting. If your company has co-pilot, use co-pilot whatever is appropriate for your company. But I think for me, at least it has helped me on the time on the perception of time that others have. Because my perception of time is I can always squeeze 15 minutes somewhere, and it ends up being 45 minutes. Because I my concept of time is a little bit uh 100%. All right. So many amazing things, and and I can talk to you for forever, but I do want to have one closing question. If there was a takeaway that you would like uh ADHD professionals to take from the school, what would that be? Ooh, so many takeaways.
SPEAKER_05I was talking to someone the other day, and I'll say that this is actually for a workshop I'm doing next week. Shameless plug. There is this conversation to be had about
Treating the Symptoms vs. Doing the Identity Work
SPEAKER_05not everything has to be ADHD's fault. Ooh, yeah. So it's almost like you've been taking the vitamin A, ADHD, I need medication, I need this, I need that, ADHD, ADHD. But what about vitamin B? Which is the reevaluating your identity, your strengths, your values, your boundaries, like the deeper who stuff, which is what we do in coaching that matters. Right? It's yes, there's the transactional side of you, right? The doing part, but the being part, don't forget this one. And when you put vitamin A and B together, then okay, we we've integrated. And so when you get this diagnosis or you suspect, I often see this of okay, let's fix executive functioning, let's fix my time management issues and da-da-da-da-da. But it's the deeper stuff. And for me, when I arrived at the deeper stuff, the reinvention that happened for me eight in 2018, that was life-changing. That was like, okay, it's no longer about a diagnosis anymore. It's Kathy 2.0, and this is how I am. And I can stand in my truth a lot more than before. And it doesn't have to be because of a diagnosis and because of this and because of that.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_05So take the vitamin A and don't forget vitamin B, you gotta mix it together.
SPEAKER_02I love it. And because it's so empowering as well. And I think it goes back to that intentional leadership piece where being more intentional with how we show up, but above all, please, for me, from my perspective, if you take anything, please search help. Try to get your diagnosis, your real diagnosis, or at least it might be something else that you don't know about, right? Because sometimes not new neurodivergent brains show up very differently. And I think it's important for you to know exactly what you are trying to treat, uh, and not whether it's medicated or not medicated. You have options out here that could really help. Kathy, I am excited and I have a feeling you're not you're just not gonna be the last time that we're going to be doing this because you're just incredible. And we have so many amazing questions and engagement, and this this is so useful and such a relevant time uh today to be able to have this conversation because the world's going faster than it ever that it ever has. And for everyone, neurodivergent or not, we need we need help in and understanding what's happening with us. So you are amazing, and I'm so grateful that you you are here on the show today. So thank you.
SPEAKER_05Girl, thank you for sharing your platform with me. Thank you so much. This was so much fun.
SPEAKER_02I have a feeling that this is not going to be the last time we're gonna have Kathy in our show, and I cannot say how much I learned, and I was constantly trying to hold myself back from being like, oh, that's me, that's me, that's me. Kathy, you're incredible. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. For everyone turning in, I want you to remember Kathy's most powerful analogy. Don't just take your bitumen A by focusing exclusively on fixing executive functioning. Don't just go directly into, you know, taking medication on list that's right for you. Absolutely. We encourage you, make sure that you get diagnosed with your doctor before you diagnose yourself with AGHD, but there's other options. There's coaching for professionals in the spectrum, professionals with ADHD, professionals with many types of neurodivergence, and we are all special, we're all different, and not special in a oh, you're different, you're a unicorn kind of way, but we're all unicorns in this world and our brains are different, and that is a-okay. If you recognize yourself in any of these patterns we unpacked here today, whether you tend to be an architect, the rescuer, or the imposter, remember that you have the power to intentionally claim yourself and recover yourself. Thank you all for listening in today. I'm very excited. If you enjoyed this coaching conversations for neurodivergent people, put it on the comments, let us know. We're excited to bring more amazing coaches like Kathy. Take care.
