EP.15: Why We Procrastinate on Our Dreams

Life Freedom Coach Mike Messeroff joins Karol Figueroa to unpack why high-achievers procrastinate on their true dreams and how fear, job security, and social conditioning keep them stuck.

Learn how to recognize the illusion of security, break free from people-pleasing, and understand why F.E.A.R. (False Evidence Appearing Real) drives inaction. Mike also introduces the “magic gap” to create clarity, and the concept of Memento Mori as a powerful reminder to stop waiting for “someday.”

If you feel stuck between what you should do and what you want to do, this episode will help you reconnect with your direction and take action.

Connect with today’s guest, Mike Messeroff

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemesseroff/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mikemesseroff 

Website: https://mikemesseroff.com/ 

Meet your host: Karol Figueroa

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karolfigueroa/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/karol.figueroa.tate/

Need support at work? HiK Trainings can help.

Website: https://www.hiktrainings.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hiktrainings/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hiktrainings

Transcript

Intro

SPEAKER_02 0:00

The people that know us the best are the ones that hold on to that old version of us the tightest. So when we start to change and become someone new, that's kind of where we see the most resistance from the people that we know the closest.

SPEAKER_07 0:13

For people that have been in Corporate America for 20 years, one of their biggest struggles is doing something without financial reward, recognition, or making someone else that is not you proud of you. And I can tell you this because I face it, I was one of them before I woke up.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

Only when you're present and you're still and you're silent, you realize, like, holy shit, I'm not even making my decisions. Like I make decisions based on a paradigm that I was given. Like I was given my name, I was given my religion, I was given the geography where I was brought up. What I see with a lot of my clients is they don't know what they want.

SPEAKER_07 0:58

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to Coffee and Coaching. I am your host, Carol Figueroa, and today we're gonna talk about one of my favorite topics, but also with one of my favorite people and a particular coaching practice that I didn't know that it actually existed. We're going to talk to Mike Masarov, and he is a live freedom coach. And before you sit back and say, Well, what kind of thing is this? He doesn't just focus on when your day comes for you to actually achieve your life freedom. He focuses on how can you achieve life freedom where you are at today? Some of the things that he spoke about on this session was just incredible. The comment section was blooming. It was truly inspirational and mind-blowing. Here's the question we will answer today: why do we continue to procrastinate on our dreams? Why do we continue to believe that our dreams are something so far away to be achieved and we continue to put fear and procrastination in between? If this resonates with you, if you had a dream of becoming something that just feels so obtainable to you, if you had a dream about living somewhere that just felt completely crazy to even think about, this episode is for you. So grab your coffee, let's sit down and have a conversation with Mike. Let's dive in. So I have the pleasure to be here with an amazing coach, and his name is Mike Mestarov. He is what I believe you call, and everyone calls you, the life freedom coach. And after we're done with today's conversation, everyone's gonna understand even more why. Before I start with the introductions, I met Mike through another podcast, and I'm so grateful that we have someone in common that introduced me to Mike, and I could not be more excited. As soon as I heard that podcast, I'm like, I need him in coffee and coaching. Our audience needs to hear him. And I'm so glad that you're here, Mike.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

Oh, it's such a pleasure. I mean, it's been it feels like a long time coming because we've been so excited about this. So it's it's so great to be here, Carol. It's an honor.

SPEAKER_07 3:02

Thank you. Thank you. So a little bit of background on Mike. Mike has his own coaching firm and he focuses on high, uh, high profile and very high-performing professionals that really are trying to, you know, exceed and succeed in the world. But he teaches them how to give themselves that care back that he gives to others. And also, more importantly, redefining for them what inner freedom is. So that's the part where I was like, oh, you had me at hello. I struggle with freedom of any kind. So I was very happy to hear this. And on our prep call, I kid you not, it felt like a coffee and coaching conversations. There's so many nuggets that I took from there for my own life. So I'm so glad that I get to share you with our guest today.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Yeah, it was, I mean, that was amazing. That that conversation made me really excited for this one. So yeah, let's let's dive in. I'm ready.

SPEAKER_07 3:55

Let's dive in. So, what happens? We're we're talking today about procrastinating on your dreams or fear of committing to dream more, right? So we navigated back and forward on this topic, but the word procrastination came a lot on the sentiment that we kept seeing online every time we talk about dreams. There was always a reason why people couldn't go for it. So, this is your area of expertise.

Why We Don't Know What We Want

SPEAKER_07 4:20

Tell me what what do you see most likely in people when they're trying to go for the things that they want?

SPEAKER_02 4:25

Well, I really what I see with a lot of my clients is they don't know what they want.

SPEAKER_07 4:30

Ooh, you see, you already have me taking notes and we haven't been here five minutes. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

They don't, they don't, they don't know what they want. You know, we we live in a society where we're told what success is. We're not told to discover it ourselves. And then we go through our entire lives with this framework of right and wrong, successful, unsuccessful. And then, you know, you get to 40, 50, sometimes 60 years old. It feels like you're at the end of the rainbow and you open that treasure chest and there's no gold inside. And you you wonder what happened. You know, it feels like you were scammed, and uh, it's because you never took maybe five, 10, 15 minutes of your entire life to just sit there and say, What do I want? I think when you get that level of clarity, then the excitement, the enthusiasm builds. Even the word enthusiasm means the God within. Wow. And Theos means the God. So it's it's that feeling of alignment, of living on purpose. And when you have that clarity, that North Star, it's not about achieving it. It's about knowing where you're heading so you can enjoy the present moment. And I think that that combination of not knowing where we're going and also not knowing how to be present are two of the main reasons why we suffer and and don't live the fullest expression and most joyful lives that we can be living.

SPEAKER_07 5:53

I, you know, there's two things you said. Um, and you know, this is the coaching me. I always grab into one word that come up. But when you said, you know, you think you're at the end of your rainbow. I love that you think that you added there because you're never too late for you to change, as long as you're living and breathing, you can change the trajectory of your life and go after the things that you dream. But, you know, it hopefully, especially I talk about myself, I wish it would have had those moments earlier in my career because having those moments would have probably made me do what I'm doing right now a little bit earlier uh in my career. So I love that. And like the thing about people not knowing what they want, I think that comes up a lot on coaching for me because I'm constantly like, you know, they come with words and things that they want to be. And I and I am like, great, this is great. He's like, so help me get there. And or or her. And I'm like, great, but I first need to know if this is truly what you want. And I I spend sometimes two sessions, sometimes three, just unpacking truly what is it that you want. Because it's almost like we are being programmed and constantly fed what we want. Is that something that you like? It sounds crazy and kind of like very like, you know, conspiracy, but it's really true. Like, I have uh I have a uh I have a leader that she told me. She's like, I early on decided I do not want to be a mother. And I'm like, cool. And she said, Oh, you you look very non-disciplined. I'm like, I don't care, you choose whatever you want for your life. But but I asked her, I said, but I believe it's a battle. She said, Oh yeah, with my family, with

The Trap of "Supposed To" & The Cost of People-Pleasing

SPEAKER_07 7:30

the people around me. Like, I'm supposed to choose this path. And those supposed to, those are one of my least favorite words in the English.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

Supposed to, should.

SPEAKER_07 7:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Yeah. And it literally steals our life away from us. I mean, it it does trying to please other people, our parents, our friends. You know, the people that know us the best are the ones that hold on to that old version of us the tightest. So when we start to change and become someone new, that's kind of where we see the most resistance from the people that we know the closest. That's why we need to be really strong and really practice not caring what other people think, because there's no way. And this is what I teach my clients who are running companies but also running families. I teach them that they cannot give to others or serve others or be there for their family if they don't feel full of joy and purpose and alignment and peace and presence, none of which come from people pleasing or sacrificing your own dreams, even though it's kind of what we're taught. Yes. We're taught to suffer, to sacrifice, to be a martyr, to lift everyone else up around us.

SPEAKER_06 8:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

And you can't do that unless you you feel powerful and strong and like you're living your own authentic expression of your life.

SPEAKER_06 8:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

So it's it's a reframing of, you know what? It is actually for them. Yeah. Me following my own path and my purpose. And even if they don't get it, or if they they are upset or offended, if you could flip it in your head and say, I'm actually doing it so even if you have to go away, like I had to travel and I had to, you know, live outside of the country to just almost like so that I could gain the skills and and and the the almost build the life that I wanted to be living so that I can go back and be the person that I want to be for everyone else that I care about. So it's um it's it's a reframing. Like you can't give anyone else anything if you don't have it to give. So if you want to give joy, if you want to give uh great leadership, you you need to feel that feel it in order to I I I love this conversation.

SPEAKER_07 9:46

I think especially because, you know, especially some cultures, we've been taught to uh sacrifice and sacrifice, and that's how you show love is by sacrificing and the self gets fed last, right? And I I I honestly I didn't quite learn that till my second child, because on my first child, I was giving, giving, giving to everything and everything went around me. I'm a natural people pleaser, so I want to make everyone around me happy. But I love that you took that distance, you went away because and and and maybe that's what some people included needed to be able to build boundaries with those that believe that they know best for our lives. Do you agree with that?

SPEAKER_02 10:28

Absolutely, you know, whatever that means, it doesn't necessarily mean moving away or traveling, yeah, but it is

Cultivating "The Magic Gap" & The Power of the Pause

SPEAKER_02 10:35

going into uh a cave of solitude, you know, like going into the forest, however you want to look at it. It's it's just realizing that no one, you don't know what you want. So how the hell could anyone else know what's best for you? Yes. So much of my work is actually getting my clients ready to have clarity emerge.

SPEAKER_06 11:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

And so that means they need to practice presence, they need to to quiet the noise of everything around them, and most importantly, the noise in here in your head. Because it's so negative, it's so programmed, it's it's exactly what we're talking about today, the fear behind the press the procrastination. But if you get into a place where you're comfortable in silence, you're comfortable being with yourself, you're actually forming a relationship with yourself, yes, then you you just start trusting your intuition instead of your logic, because this is not where dreams come from. It's not, it's not reality. It's it's a survival mechanism. And if you could separate this from this and realize that this is literally where it all comes from, that feeling in your solar plexus of enthusiasm, of God within, being like, this is what you're meant to do. Even just for right now, we think that we need to have our whole lives planned out. You just need to know that what I'm doing right now feels like it's getting me closer to that North Star. But that North Star is going to change when you get out there on the journey, but you still, you set it, you have a vision, you come back, you live presently in the moment, and you get to enjoy your life because that's the point of it all. It's not about I'm going to enjoy my life when. There is no when, there is no someday. So the most important thing is is learning how to be present in your life. That's where clarity emerges, that's where joy emerges, that's where love comes from. That's that's uh I love it.

SPEAKER_07 12:36

Yeah, yeah. And I I I also like when you talk about yes, there's the goals that you have, but you still gotta be present in the moment, even though you have the goals. I have been guilty of being that person of when I get there, I'll celebrate. When I finish this, then then then my life starts. When this happened, then it starts. And I think what when we talk about the topic today, procrastinating on your dreams, I think what you're saying is one, you need to know what the heck you want. That's like official. And two, once you know what you want, don't just focus on the then. Focus on being present while you still have that dream that gives you the enthusiasm to keep going. And I think beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

And I would say before one, it's like the like pre-one is learn how to be present, practice mindfulness, meditate, do those things so that clarity can emerge from a place of stillness and confidence instead of stress, pressure, programming, what my mom is gonna think about it or my dad. You know, it's that that presence piece, which also includes deprogramming because only when you're present and you're still and you're silent, you realize, like, holy shit, I'm not even making my decisions. Like, I make decisions based on a paradigm that I was given. Like I was given my name, I was given my religion, I was given the geography where I was brought up. I was raised in New York. I'm a New Yorker, so that was like a part of my identity. And uh, when you quiet down and you get away from all those labels and identity, then you start to have clarity emerge. So then you get the clarity. It's not like you have to do that much. You just have to kind of stop doing a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 14:17

I gotta tell you this. We have had last season we had 12 coaches, this season we're gonna have 12 more. And the word pass has come up almost in every when we talked about true calling, when we talk about burnout, when we talked about boundaries, when we talk about all these different things, the word pass came up a whole lot. What is your take on that?

SPEAKER_02 14:38

It's it's magic. It's magic.

SPEAKER_07 14:43

And you will think it's like it's it's a hard thing to accomplish.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

It's the most important thing. It's the most important thing. One of my one of my favorite quotes, if not my favorite quote, was said in 1654 by Blaise Pascal, who is a French philosopher. He said, All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.

SPEAKER_06 15:07

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

So of course he says man, but it's it's everyone, it's human. And it's all wars, all conflict, everything, all of our relation relationship problems come from the fact that we don't know how to sit alone with ourselves. I mean, just try it. Just try it. You'll you'll you'll reach for your phone in five seconds, you'll put on the TV, you'll you'll put on some music, you'll have to pick up a book. You just can't do it because you haven't practiced it. So it's it's that when you practice it, we get good at what we practice. You know, you practice deferring life, you get really good at it. You practice celebrating later, then your whole life is postponing celebration.

SPEAKER_06 15:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

But if you practice presence, just a few minutes of meditation every morning, like two minutes, then you get really good at being present. You get you actually get the magic, I call it the magic gap. You call it the pause, I call it the magic gap, where it's like a millisecond of non-reactivity. And the easiest way I love describing this is it happened to me the first week I was meditating. And this is almost 10 years ago. I was taking, I was emptying the dishwasher, and it was still kind of wet and hot, and one of these glass Tupperwares slipped out of my hands and fell on the ground and shattered. And I just remember just kind of looking at it and being like, huh, I guess I'll clean it up. And I was like, Because a week earlier, I would have lost my mind. I would have said, Who packed the dishwasher like this? This always happens to me. Now my day is ruined. I'd ruin my day, I'd ruin everyone else's day around me. But when I started cultivating that little gap, that pause, and you're just like, Well, it's already broken, you know, like what am I gonna do? Clean it up. And you say you save all this wasted energy, you save all the conflict, you you life becomes just easier and it's natural when you practice that pause. So yeah, there's there's nothing more important. That's where answers come from. That's where clarity emerges from. Yeah, we're so busy, we're so busy that you know. I I just challenge anyone who's listening to just sit in a little bit of silence and realize how uncomfortable it is, which is showing you something. It's like fear. It's like we need to walk into fear to realize that it's not the thing that we think it is. We need to sit in the uncomfortable stillness to realize like that's why, that's why I feel stressed out and anxious and overwhelmed and burnt out because I don't know how to be still. I mean, if our car is running low on gas, we fill it up. If it's breaking down, we take it to get worked on. But when we break down, we dig in, we work harder.

SPEAKER_07 17:46

Yes, and we work with more goals to ourselves and we try to like and we keep putting ourselves last instead of first. Yes, including jobs, including companies, including all of the different things. Um, and I just said fear, and I mean, first of all, let's acknowledge this coffee and coaching and coaching. Your coffee looks amazing.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

Oh, yeah, I got the I got the froth and the cinnamon on my cappuccino.

SPEAKER_07 18:13

I'm like killing it.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Life's too short. Life's too short. You gotta have the cinnamon.

SPEAKER_07 18:19

Uh which is where you're located right now.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

So I'm drinking some freshly ground Costa Rican coffee.

SPEAKER_07 18:25

This is this is where you're not making me gonna take a flight next week, next week. I'm like, come say hi to Costa Rico just to get coffee. Um, so really quickly, you talk about fear and you talk about this right here is not built for you to is built for survival. I want you to go deeper into that because, you know, as as a person that study neuroscience, right? I know feelings come, feelings come from the brain, which is which is true. But and then you talk about fear and kind of getting in the way. So I I I want you to explain to the audience what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_02 19:00

It's all um, it's all an illusion. Fear is fear is fake.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

Yes.

F.E.A.R: False Evidence Appearing Real

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Fear is fake. There's a real thing called danger, which is you know, you're going on a hike and it's narrow and there's a like a steep drop-off. So you're like, shit, I'm gonna hug this the other side of the wall so I don't want to fall off. That's danger.

SPEAKER_04 19:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

You don't want to get too close to a campfire or or do something silly around a fire because you can really get hurt.

SPEAKER_04 19:25

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

Fear is fake. It literally is false evidence appearing real. F-E-A-R.

SPEAKER_07 19:31

Oh, I love that acronym. Say it again. Fear false, false, evidence, evidence, appearing, appearing, real, real. Oh my god, I'm gonna turn that into something in my house. That is so real.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

Once you understand that your mind is a survival mechanism, and it's it's very useful. Like we're not trying to kill off the ego.

SPEAKER_05 19:54

We need it.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

You need it, and these identities, they're they're great things, but you just when you stop taking it so seriously, you realize that what it's doing is trying to keep you alive. Yeah, that's it. That's it. It's it's taking everything that you've ever done, every experience, every memory, every hardship, all the pain, all the suffering, and trying to help you not relive that, which is which is a great thing, but it usually just prevents us from living our fullest, most beautiful lives because it keeps us small, because small is safe. Technically, getting on a plane and traveling somewhere or starting a business or doing something that's new is technically a little riskier to the longevity of your life. But as Alan Watts says, my favorite philosopher, better to have a short life lived well than a long life spent in a miserable way.

SPEAKER_06 20:47

Wow. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

And it's true. And it doesn't mean you're gonna live a short life. It just means carpe diem se is the day. Life is short. And if you are constantly just trying to prolong your life, you're gonna have a long, boring ass, repressed life. Instead, instead of grabbing life by the horns and saying, you know, this is this is my time, this is my opportunity. So you you don't wait till fear subsides to do it. That that's not that's never gonna happen. That's not what bravery is. Bravery is courage despite the fear, not in absence of it.

SPEAKER_07 21:26

Yes, you have to do it. Do it scared, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:29

Do it do it scared. Do it scared because when fear knocks on the door and love answers it, there's no one standing there.

SPEAKER_07 21:37

I absolutely love it because um and like I said, this feels very much like a coaching session for me and where I'm at in my life, and how much I I really hope, you know, younger me or someone that is in that same face that I was listens to this conversation. Because for me, I did a very brave thing when I was younger, which is to immigrate to a different country, fairly knowing the language. And having a dream of I'm gonna make it. But then somewhere on the line, I started fearing. And it tip and it happened after having kids. Typically, kids bring that fear out of you because you're like, I need to keep, and now it's not just making them alive. I need to keep this two alive, right? And it does something to you, your psyche of, okay, like I need to be careful. I need to be, you know, and you start like putting all these guardrails. And somewhere along the line, your dreams just be just become unobtainable, or you make yourself believe that is unobtainable. And I just want to say, because we have a lot of comments in our comment section, and I want to encourage people to ask questions while Mike is here because I mean, this believe me, this is an incredible opportunity. And someone asked,

Finding Your Soul Blueprint & The Phases of Coaching

SPEAKER_07 22:47

how do you connect to your soul blueprint? asked uh someone in the comment section.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

I love that. My my wife is actually a coach as well, and she offers soul blueprint sessions.

SPEAKER_06 22:59

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

I find that fascinating that someone asked that.

SPEAKER_06 23:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

You know, it's one of those things, like I said, if you don't know what the path for your life is or what clarity is for you, no one else is gonna know it. You just have to realize like no one else knows it.

SPEAKER_06 23:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

And any good coach is not good at they could tell you ideas. I'm constantly like sharing ideas like have you thought of it from this way, or or what about this? But I can't tell my clients what to do. My job is to help them realize that they need to get to a place of stillness, of peace. Oh, it's like trying to look at the reflection of the moon in a lake, but you're throwing rocks in it.

SPEAKER_06 23:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

So you have to stop throwing rocks. You have to let it settle down, and then you could see this beautiful reflection.

SPEAKER_06 23:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

To find your soul blueprint, you have to go into that place of quietness, of stillness. And only then can you start the journey of introspection. I have three phases to my coaching program. The first one is presence, which we've talked a lot about.

SPEAKER_07 24:01

Which is harder. Like I believe that people find it harder than than than anything else in today's world. And sorry, what are the other two?

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Well, it's just like it's just like it might be harder, but what the alternative is going right to climbing the ladder.

SPEAKER_07 24:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

And then you get to the top and you're like, oh shit, that ladder's been leading on the wrong building this whole time.

SPEAKER_07 24:22

This is not even what I want to be or do.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

I I didn't take I didn't take five minutes to be like, let me look at that building. Is that the building I want to be on top of? Because you're scared of being quiet, you're scared of what your your intuition's gonna tell you.

SPEAKER_07 24:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

Wouldn't you rather know?

SPEAKER_07 24:39

Then climb on the wrong ladder and then 20 years of your life go and you're like, I didn't even want this. And and you're wondering forever. So I interrupted you, but I'm dying to know the other two steps.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Well, well, it's it's like you're going to imagine like you're in the woods and you're lighting off a forest fire, uh, not a forest fire, a campfire.

SPEAKER_06 25:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

But it's really windy. And I don't know if anyone's if you've ever tried to light a fire in the wind, it's really, really hard.

SPEAKER_07 25:07

I have done it in Puerto Rico when it's windy, but it's it's it's really hard.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

So the first phase of presence is is quieting down the wind, quieting down the noise, stop throwing rocks into the lake, however you want to look at it. You're just calming down, you're stopping being so programmed and so reactive. That's the first phase. And then it's like, okay, now I could take off the wet logs. I could really start to light this fire and get it going, even though you realize the fire is always lit. There's always an ember there. But once you stop the wind, then it could start growing more and actually start to be a real fire. That's clarity. That's when we start just asking ourselves questions. And to the person who asked about the soul blueprint, it's not rocket science. It's literally like, what brings me joy? What makes me feel like a kid? What do I love learning about? For no reason. Remember, we're trying to take away the you need some outcome. You're taking away the I'm doing X for Y. You want it to be I'm doing X for X. I'm doing work every day because I love it, not because it's getting me something. It's going to get you something if you love it.

SPEAKER_07 26:15

I'm gonna tell you this. This is something, and it so I I how I told you my husband's an entrepreneur, and that is his philosophy of life. I am like the luckiest woman in the world because he he can he keeps telling me this on a regular basis. For people that have been in Corporate America for 20 years, one of their biggest struggles is doing something without financial reward recognition or making someone else that is not you proud of you. And I can tell you this because I face it, I was one of them before I woke up. But I I still sometimes go back to all programming, right? That I'm like, wait, hold up. No, I I need to do X, Y, or C. It it I'm telling I'm saying this because I love what you're saying that we must do. And even if you like that that moment of pausing and clarity, the earlier you do it, the better. But if you're not early, it's still not late.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

Before we continue, a quick shout out to today's sponsor, HIK Trainings. If you're ever wanting to level up your leadership skills or bring real connection back to your remote team, check out HIK Trainings.com.

SPEAKER_03 27:32

Burned out? Repeating the same work again and again? If you create another presentation on the same thing, you feel like you might burst into flames. How long can you keep showing up in a role that feels smaller than you? It's time for a pivot, but not just any pivot, a strategic one. Pivot Ready by HIK Trainings helps six-figure professionals identify what's next. Not with guesswork, but with clarity. Using our EKGuide-based coaching model and scientifically validated natural-born talent framework, we'll help you uncover what you're wired to do and how to turn that into your next bold move. If your current job is draining you, it's time to realign. Get clear. Get pivot ready. Visit hiktrainings.com slash pivot ready.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

And we're back. You're listening to Coffee and Coaching, where we blend real conversations with real growth. Let's jump in.

Why You Are Never "Late" to Follow Your Dreams

SPEAKER_02 28:35

No, there is no such thing as late. The reason that you're feeling that misalignment is because it's the right time. Like it had to get that bad. Maybe your little nudge or tap from the universe had to be a full-blown shake. You know, typically we have to be shaken to awaken. So it has to get to that point of like, okay, this is really bad. But it's not. It had to get to that point. It's just when were you starting to listen to the bells, the alarms, the warnings, the shakes. So there you're never late. If you're feeling that here, then it's then it's the right time. And it's it's just time. And everything that you've learned for the last 40, 50, 60, 70 years is all perfect.

SPEAKER_07 29:18

It has brewed into where you are at now. And I'm exactly right. I am so glad you said that because I genuinely believe I wanted HIKA trainings to happen before, but I needed the 20 years of love, hate, sweat, tears, like every single emotion I felt for 20 years.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

I needed to travel, I needed to travel the world after I quit my corporate job to then fall into the lowest depression of my life to viscerally realize that happiness is not out there.

SPEAKER_06 29:47

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

Even though I live in Costa Rica now, it's I'm not here escaping something or trying to find something. Wherever you go, there you are. So when you talk about, you just said like you're in corporate 20 years, you're people pleasing, you're trying to get someone to say I'm proud of you, look in the fucking mirror.

SPEAKER_06 30:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

No, seriously. Like, are you proud of yourself? And you know it. You can't lie to yourself. You can put on a happy, happy face and a mask and show up and do your work every day. But if you look in that mirror and say, Am I proud of the person that I am? That's the only one. That's the only one that you want to be proud of you.

SPEAKER_07 30:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

That's it.

SPEAKER_07 30:28

And as I so now I'm racing, not myself, because my daughter is way more assertive than me, and she has her own personality. She was born I met I met her. Oh, yes, that's right. Very old soul. And I always said it. She would say dig things at the age of four. Uh, and like racing her now, one of the things that she said to me, and I'm proud of myself for that because I didn't experience that, is like, mom, I want to be more like you. You really do not care what other people think.

SPEAKER_06 30:56

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_07 30:57

And I'm like, you know, it took a it took time because I was a believer policer, but I'm so glad at this stage of my life where I'm at, where I'm like, I'm genuinely and she sees my reaction and she sees how I move in the world. And it's important for her to see it so she can eventually embrace it and say, you know what? This is possible. It didn't, it didn't break my mom. It's possible, especially with the people that she surrounds herself with, you know.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

It's it's the only way to teach. Yeah. It's the only it's the only way to teach. You know, you said that when you had a kid and you started putting up these guardrails and started playing a little safer. Yes. Think about it. Most most parents do that because they want to be able to show their kids that they could do anything, that life is full of possibility and wonder. You could be anything you want to you want to do. Just don't learn it from me because I'm not doing that. Don't learn it from the one person you're spending all of your developmental years from.

SPEAKER_06 31:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

And we only learn by observation. Like that's how we learn.

SPEAKER_04 31:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

By seeing by seeing it. So the only thing you could really do for your kids is to set an example. And if you want them to live a different life than you're living, start living a different life yourself.

SPEAKER_07 32:09

That is beautiful. And I and I absolutely love it. And and again, Ken, I will love to see everyone that is trying to pursue their dream and they feel procrastination. I want you to name it what it is false evidence appearing real. There's nothing other than fear driving your procrastination. And sometimes perfectionism. And Mike, you know, as an entrepreneur, and I am as well, like you never stop working on your business. You never stop moving it. It's never, is that meal that is never quite cooked. That you're gonna feel like seasoning and dressing it and putting more on and chifting. And I think that what when I think about procrastination, I procrastination and and and that perfectionism come to mind for me when I talk, when I think about fear of following your dream. That you know what it is. I want to say this. I want to say this in this podcast. You know what that is, you know what it is. You loved it, and I love it because we have a comment on the session talking about your childhood dream. Your childhood dream maybe evolved, maybe tweaked a little bit, but it's still the same. I've been writing since I'm nine years old, and I'm, you know, and same. We both share that in common, and I'm like, and finally, you know, did it here small, did it here there, and then next year I'm gonna write on something else, but it's the dream and I'm doing it. And sometimes we we wait for the soil to be right and for everything to be right on our own. And I just love how you said, I traveled the world, I went abroad, and then I realized I brought myself with me because you still, whatever you need to work on here, you're gonna have to work wherever you go.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

Do the work, do the work, and it's the work, and it's the work of a lifetime, too. I mean, how you say that you kind of I love that you're you admit, like I I fall back into old programming and habits. So do I. As someone who's been practicing this work for for a decade and coaching others, I'm constantly catching myself, my smaller self, which I name normal normal Norman. I love it. So so when I when I feel that coming up, even how I make decisions about my business, a lot of it is typically from fear until I realize that that's what's happening. Or ego, like, wouldn't it be great to have the biggest community or to have the the the greatest impact and leave an amazing legacy? It's like, no, I want to just live the best life I could possibly live. What is that? Because that's how I'm gonna serve people the best.

SPEAKER_04 34:36

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

I I love I was given a

The Myth of Job Security

SPEAKER_02 34:40

real gift when I worked at JetBlue for my 20s. That was my corporate job. I was JetBlue's first intern, and I really got to see that company grow, like as an entrepreneurial company. I got hired by the CEO, David Nealman. But when I was 25, there was an incident at JetBlue. It was Valentine's Day of 2006, and they ended up calling this the Valentine's Day Massacre. So what happened was JFK had their hub at JetBlue had their hub at JFK, and there was this horrible winter snowstorm, but it was a weird one where the planes would go out to take off, but it would snow and they'd have to get de-iced, and then it would melt and then refreeze, and then they'd have to get de-iced again, and then they would go out and it would snow and melt, and they'd have to get the defreezer. So there were planes on the tarmac for eight, 10, 12 hours, no bathrooms, no food. It was a real shit show.

SPEAKER_06 35:35

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_02 35:36

And Jet Blue really took it like a huge PR hit with that. That was February of 2007. Over the next few months, David Nealman, the CEO, was like, look, we fucked up. He took out full-page ads in the New York Times, LA Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal. I'm sorry. Like, we're gonna do better. And they did. They instituted a customer bill of rights, they made all these operational changes. It was really impressive to see that. May, three months later, David Nealman, the CEO and founder, was fired from his own company. Even though he did, he made it right, he apologized. He was a great visionary leader. And as a 25-year-old, growing the like rising in the ranks of corporate America, to see that this guy who I admired, he was so inspirational. He's also the guy that hired me.

SPEAKER_06 36:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

To see that the founder and CEO did not have job security showed me that job security is a myth. It was a it was a gift because so many people you're talking about, like you're in corporate for 20 years, you you're you're ingrained in these things. So much of it is bullshit. Like so much of your job security is not real. So you have to love what you're doing.

SPEAKER_07 36:44

It is, and it's so subjective to an opinion, right? Or a perception of what I perceive you're doing. And there's no questions. And if it ends up, and this are the lead, the leaders that I despite the most, the ones that are like, it's either your job or mine, and guess who I'm gonna save, right? Because when I've been in those positions, I know I'm gonna be okay, right? But like, but uh to me, though, that that I think that lesson starts, thank you for sharing it because I learned that the hard way after a company I've been doing for 12 years. I learned that I gave this company 12 years of my life, and in that moment, I needed a consideration because of a family matter. And they were like, nah. And I'm like, and I'm like, wow, I've given this company 12 years, and I feel right now like I have to choose between my family or my company. And guess what I should do?

SPEAKER_02 37:37

Even even, of course, of course. But even your your your wording, I gave 12 years.

SPEAKER_06 37:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

Do we want our life to feel like we're trading our time for something, you know, whether it's money or prestige or security or health insurance, or stability.

SPEAKER_07 37:54

And and and health insurance is a tricky one because that I understand here in America, especially it's a challenge. But but let me tell you some of the clients that we come after layoffs, because we have had a lot of clients that had a layoff to clarity program that was eye-opening to me, eye-opening. And people that had other dreams, but it's like, but I chose security, I chose job security. Why? A lot of federal government, a lot of black women, a lot of uh people that are like, hey, I gave this company my everything. I gave my discount this was I wanted to go on business with my my daughter, but I chose this instead. And I'm like, guess what you get to do now? You get to do the thing. And I have I have people that will, and again, we just had a financial uh financial coach talk to us, but you know, they will live a terrible life, but their 4K is intact.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

Like it is congratulating.

SPEAKER_07 38:43

I know, and I'm like, good for your 401k. You need a place to live. What are we gonna do? Right? Like, and it's just the buttons.

SPEAKER_02 38:52

And I will I will say I'm kind of like shitting on that a little bit, but yes, having that 4k from working in my 20s did give me a lot of help overcoming the fear of leaving corporate America. So I will say save money if you can, because that will help you get over that fear of yes, I need three months, six months, a year of like a runway to to go take some risks. And I always said that I could always go back to corporate.

SPEAKER_07 39:19

That right there.

SPEAKER_02 39:20

That I could always I could always go back. I never did, but but I think that also helps. It's like you have the skills, you have experience, but if you have a dream, one of my other I've mentioned a few, but one of my greatest mentors is Wayne Dyer, who passed about 10 years ago. He always said, Don't die with your music inside of you. Don't die with your music inside of you. If you have something inside a book that you want to write, you want to, you know, open a bicycle shop somewhere, you want to move to the Caribbean, you want like whatever it is, like there's a reason. There's a reason. And just because no one else around you understands it or gets it, that makes it more special to you. That's more of a reason to do it. And so we're we're just trained to, you know, follow the pack, follow the herd, do what everyone else is doing, immediately look for kind of like reassurances and pats on the back that we're doing the right thing, but it doesn't come from out there.

SPEAKER_07 40:12

Yeah, it doesn't. It absolutely doesn't. You know, you know, we can talk about this for hours and you are just you're gonna, you're coming back, Mike. As long as you want to come back with your prophecy, you're welcome. What is the one takeaway you will tell someone that is listening to this episode and is either afraid or delaying their dreams and making excuses to not achieve that dream? What is this? This is beautiful, by the way, but yes.

Memento Mori and Realizing We Don't Have Unlimited Time

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Memento mori is Latin for remember thou art mortal. That's why I keep a skull on my desk. So if I could say one thing, don't forget that you're gonna die. And it sounds morbid, but it's not.

SPEAKER_04 40:54

It's a reality. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:56

I I think about death every day and in a great way, where it's like, if today was my last day, would I be okay with how I'm spending this day? And also would I be okay saying that I'm good, like life's been great. It's been a wild ride, it's been an adventure. I think the greatest reason for procrastination is that we think we have time.

SPEAKER_06 41:18

Yes, yes, and you don't.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

You don't know, you just don't know. And I I really feel like the more you do practice presence and joy and and realizing that you can't give away what you don't have, then the more you want to carpe diem, seize the day. Yeah, and and and really experience. And it's not about like, I gotta party, I gotta get as much of this fun in as possible. It's not, it's it's enjoying a sunset. It's enjoy it's playing with your kids, it's rubbing your dog's belly, it's enjoying a cup of coffee instead of bolting it down just to get the caffeine, to finish the work, to get on to the next day.

SPEAKER_07 41:57

Well, nice looking and and cinema on top.

SPEAKER_02 42:01

Everything slows down when you realize like this might be my last cup of coffee. I don't want, I don't want, I want to remember what it tasted like and be happy, smelled like, yeah. So one the one thing is yeah, memento mori. Remember thou art mortal. Remember you're gonna die. I mean, I'm a very spiritual person. I don't think death is the end, but I do think it's the end of this skin suit.

SPEAKER_04 42:23

What we're doing here, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:25

This this go-around, you know, and and you're here in the most opportunistic, abundant. I love that we have AI, I love that we have Zoom and all this technology. You could live anywhere, you could work anywhere. We have airplanes and ships and computers in our pocket. There's no excuses. And I think that's why people feel so repressed because they know that all these generations of family members suffered and had wars and famines and depressions, and we're here complaining about traffic and a missed, a canceled flight or whatever the bullshit is. Instead of being like, I'm alive, I'm free, I'm enjoying my life, I'm honoring the people that came before me and gave me this opportunity not to build some empire, but to enjoy my life. That's the only way that you're gonna share anything of value with anyone else.

SPEAKER_07 43:22

I love this. I love this so much because that inner freedom is directly attached to your ability to go for that dream and allow yourself to dream. But first, you need to call the thing for what it is. And your honesty, I just love it. Like, you know, not every moment is assured. You do believe that you have time. Uh, and and we do, we do. Sometimes we make that mistake, like, yeah, I have time. And I I think that when I think about the people we coach and the thing, it's like that defining what your dream truly is and that the conditioning that you've been put throughout your life. Like removing that so you can start seeing it. Because let's be honest, some of the companies that we work that we have worked for, some of the people that we have reported to, they are part of this mentality of work, work, work, work, work, work, work. So when you are stepping into your true dream and to your true self, they are not going to understand. They benefit from you not waking up. So, and and I'm not saying that not every company is like this. Not every leader and manager is like this. I have people in my team that is like, hey, I'm I think I want to work here, but I also want to start my own thing. I'm like, start your own thing. Let me know what you want you need from me. Whatever you need from me, let me know. And I do that in every company with any employee that I have because I want you to be successful far beyond our company and far beyond you working with me. Because I know that I'm with you for a certain period of time. And if I can get you closer to that dream, then then we we collectively, because I believe that what I'm doing is not just to serve me, it's to serve the universe and the world that we live in. We're collectively better because you pursued the thing that you wanted to pursue. Mike, I cannot say enough how happy I am for this conversation. Me too. Me too. It is for me. You're a blessing, and I'm so glad that we have you in this world. It we need we need more conversations like this. We need more people to push in the status quo. You're an amazing coach, and I am so excited uh to to I know we're gonna have you again.

SPEAKER_02 45:26

Thank you, Carol. I mean, right back at you. I love your energy. But you know, off right off the bat, we we clicked, and and it's just this is awesome. I'm I'd be happy to come back.

SPEAKER_07 45:38

Wow, what an incredible episode. This one was full of aha moments. Even for me, I coach on a regular basis, but mine just hit so many things right. And how fear is just really a procrastinator, perfection is also a procrastinator, and more importantly, how we continue to just play the waiting game when it comes to ourselves, but we're quick to sacrifice for the well-being of others. Please don't procrastinate on your dreams. Your dream is needed, it is put there for a reason, and more importantly, we believe we have all the time in the world to achieve it. And the reality is that we don't. In the blink of an eye, the next day will come. And I'm not saying get frustrated because you feel like all these things are getting in the way of you achieving it. Sometimes it might look completely different than what you actually think it's gonna be, but every step you're gloser to it, the more and more that dream might shift and become what is actually meant to be your purpose in this life and in this world. So I hope this episode was for you. I hope that it impacted you the way it impacted me. We'll see you on the next episode. Take care.