EP.17: Why is My Nervous System Stuck in Survival Mode?

Licensed psychotherapist Mendel Toron joins coach Karol Figueroa to break down the difference between everyday stress and full nervous system burnout and why logic alone won’t fix it.

Learn why separating work and life is an illusion, how to shift from automatic reactions to intentional responses, and why a forced pause might be exactly what your body needs. Mendel also introduces trauma-informed approaches like EMDR and Internal Family Systems (IFS) to explain why chronic stress must be processed not suppressed.

If you feel stuck in survival mode, this episode will help you regulate your nervous system and stop fighting your own body.

Connect with today’s guest, Mendel Toron

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mendeltoron   

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/therapywithmendel/
Website:  http://mendeltoron.com/ 

Meet your host: Karol Figueroa

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karolfigueroa/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/karol.figueroa.tate/

Need support at work? HIK Trainings can help.

Website: https://www.hiktrainings.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hiktrainings/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hiktrainings

Transcript

Intro

SPEAKER_02 0:00

To separate work life and home life, yes, there's boundaries, but if we pretend that life isn't interconnected and they don't have a relationship to one another, then we're doing a disservice to reality.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

And if you don't feel psychologically safe to bring such a beautiful part of who you are to work, it's time for you to start exploring where your natural-born talents can really bring more to the world.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

The difference between a reaction and a response, the response is a choice. A burnout, a shutdown, a moment that throws us off our course is a forced pause.

SPEAKER_03 0:42

Hello everyone, welcome to Coffee and Coaching. I am your host, Carol Figueroa, and I am so excited to have a first out of all of our episodes in Coffee and Coaching Podcast. And our first is an actual certified psychotherapist, and he is incredibly amazing. And why did we win with a therapist on this session? As coaches, we have very clear lines as to what is therapy and why psychotherapy is required. And today's topic is about your nervous system and knowledge your way out of burnout. How that's impossible? We need someone that actually knows that nervous system better than ever. Today we will have the incredible Mendel Toron and the founder for Mendeltorin Psychotherapy Group in Florida, who specializes in trauma-informed therapies like EMDR and death-oriented psychotherapy. Today we're breaking down the critical difference between just being stressed and experiencing full blown-out nervous system burnout. We are also unpacking why leaving your personal life at the door when you walk into work is a complete illusion. And how life just immediately changes when we have sudden things happening to us and, of course, how it's gonna impact our career. I cannot be more happy to have Mendel. I have personally been a recipient of EMBR therapy through his sperm. And when I have tell you that it has changed completely for me the way I show up at home and at work, I could not be more grateful for this practice. And when Mendel and his group of psychotherapists do. So without further ado, let's dive right in. Mendel, thank you so much for coming to Coffee and Coaching. And I just have to say, you are the first psychotherapist to join the coffee and coaching session and uh and podcast. So thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

Beautiful. Thank you, Carol. I'm excited to dive in.

SPEAKER_03 2:50

Love it, love it. So um, so so one of the things I wanted to start with, even though uh it was very brief when we had our conversation, uh, was around coaches and therapists and that line that exists. And one of the things I love the most is like even the coaches that we work with, we're very clear on that line of, hey, this is a this is therapy work. And the reason you're here is because when we were working with nervous system and actually utilizing to better help or our environment and showing up back at work, I'm like, love this. I work with neuroscientists and neuroscientific research, but I am not an expert. And I'm like, this is one of those where I'm like, okay, I'm gonna tap into an expert, and that's why you're here today. So our first uh therapist on the coffee and coaching session. So thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Yeah, a pleasure. And I like when people from different disciplines kind of come together. Uh, we can get very stuck in our lane and the approach that we have. And there's something about learning now. Coaching and therapy have a big overlap. And sometimes we can say that we can wear different hats.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Therapists were medically trained, so there's the background of diagnosis and all the formalities that go along with psychotherapy. But there's definitely a large overlap. And some things I say coaches do that therapists don't do as well, and therapists do that coaches don't do. And then there's the legal piece as well. But I think that there's a beautiful partnership that I have. I have clients that have coaches that help them to actually be able to implement a lot of the insight. Uh, the integration work can happen with therapists and therapy as well. But yeah, there's different roles.

SPEAKER_03 4:30

Yeah, what I know, but based on experience with other coaches, is we have absolutely no problem establishing that line. And I love that, right? Because I think this is mental health we're talking about. And yet it needs to be taken very seriously. It needs to be managed by a professional. And I think what I love about it is that both professions were trying to heal the world. We're trying to help the world, we're trying to make it better. And I absolutely love that I think there's such a partnership in both universes and worlds that is what makes this conversation so, so important and so special. So I want to ask, I want to start with the question that everybody wants to know. How did you go from being stressed? Hey, I'm just stressed out, to hey, so hey, I am absolutely burnt out, or my nervous system has decided to shut down on me. Um, and there is nothing for me to do about it. What are some of the chips in themselves that people should use to recognize as they're going through it?

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Yeah. Okay. So we can speak a little bit about burnout. I mean, there's usually signs before. So I like to say that the the best work I do with folks is prevention work. After the fact, if you're trying to do repair work, we can do that work. We can now go in and we have to reset yourself and get back to a baseline. But prevention work is key. So I think with experience, you start to get to notice when there are certain signs, I would say, that we're feeling a little bit not on our game. So for therapists, we have our our version of it. Um, we're, and I and I'll I'll go into that a little bit. And maybe there can be an overlap for those in the business world as well.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Yeah. So what I noticed for myself, and that's always the best experience, is my own experience, is

Recognizing Burnout & The Need to Over-Control

SPEAKER_02 6:10

I start to overly control. Okay. I start to become a little bit holding the whatever it is I'm doing a little bit too tight. So that would be the initial sign that I'm I'm feeling overly controlled, rigid, not feeling flow, not in my in my flow. And and that's usually a good sign. And for some of us, we might always live in that state. And so, and so we're we might be in a constant state of burnout. We're not even aware that we are burnt out.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

So that's something to think about. There's different layers, right? There's the person that's not even aware that they're experiencing burnout in the first place. So they're like, what is burnout? That's just my life.

SPEAKER_03 6:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

Chronically that way.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

I wonder, like, is there like when you can't get people in your in your in your consultation that they do not know that they're burnout, but they are, and they believe that, hey, this is just how my normal life has always been. Does it catch up with them at some point, or they just keep leaving their lives forever this way until the last day? I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

I mean, I think the concept exists in theory, but in reality, it catches up. And it's a blessing when it does.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

For many, it takes too long, too late. Burnout is not just what the toll that it takes on the body, but it's that we're not recognizing ourselves and our truest way of living.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

Yes, yes. No, I I I absolutely agree with that. And I just love how you say eventually it does cut catch up with you, and that's a blessing. I have been in some parts there where I'm gonna be vulnerable, but my fear of flying from my 20s came back in my 40s, and I didn't like it because I'm like, what do you mean? I already addressed this, this has to be fixed. Why is it coming back up? So I would I if of course I have done the work and my therapist is amazing, but you know, it's a blessing. Why it's a blessing? Because in the moment that it's breaking, it doesn't necessarily feel like that for many people.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

It definitely does not. And the blessing

Why Burnout is a Blessing & The "Forced Pause

SPEAKER_02 8:14

comes with what it represents. And so whether it's a pause, that's the first message, right? That to slow down and pause. And the second message is what happens underneath that, what happens afterwards. And underneath that is the insight, the real knowledge that's trying to break loose. You mentioned this idea of somebody who does it their whole life. I think somebody that can perfectly put all parts of themselves in this perfect little puzzle may not be the biggest blessing. They may from the outside be able to put it all together, cover it up, whatever you want to describe, but they're not gonna necessarily be able to touch deeper parts of themselves and live a life aligned to them. And there's always a repercussion. It always seeps out. If it's not with you, it'll be with your children. If it's not your children, your spouse, or if not your spouse, then in this today's talk, it'll be your employees. It'll be the people you impact. And so, yeah, I always say, if it's not bothering you, how does everyone else around you feel?

SPEAKER_03 9:22

I know this is for the audience, but it felt for me a little bit. Because um, I do remember uh I'm actually in the process of writing a piece, and I remember not just me, but just some of the leaders that we work with that it's like, I'm thriving, I'm doing great. Things are going amazing. And then you get to talk to their employees and you notice that they're like, no, we're we're dying here. Like we're going so fast, we're not stopping. There's no analysis, there's no data. She just goes, goes, go. He just goes, goes, go. And in your mind, you're like, I'm doing great because I have everything under control, but the people around you are suffering. And I think that what you're bringing up is very important because that's one of the things that we teach here during coaching is like, how is it impacting others? So if you're only using your natural-born talents or your strengths towards yourself, then you have a very raw strength, and you're not mature in that strength that you have because it's supposed to impact everyone around you in a positive manner. So I I absolutely love that. So do you mention um, you know, that we talked a little bit about this, that sometimes high levels of stress can reactivate deeper emotional patterns. And I think that in the workplace, a lot of people sometimes feel like um we have to be, we cannot talk about trauma, we cannot talk about therapy, we cannot talk about what's happening in our personal life because our personal life is rather than our work life. So, what are your thoughts on those particular scenarios when deeper emotional patterns show up? And what does that look like?

SPEAKER_02 10:53

Yeah, I say the future, the future of the world, the future of the business world, the future of humanity is a recognition of the interconnectedness of things. And so, in in this example,

The Illusion of Separating Work Life and Home Life

SPEAKER_02 11:06

to separate work life and home life, yes, there's boundaries, but if we pretend that life isn't interconnected and they don't have a relationship to one another, uh, then we're doing a disservice to reality.

SPEAKER_03 11:20

Oh my God, this is so powerful. Loving it. Um and I think you talk about the parts of you, right? So where we are like, there's this part of me, and there's this part of the business world, and there's this part of the emotional world. And in practice, I have seen it where people try to keep their lives separate. I actually had a leader that she wouldn't even bring the pictures of her kids and put it in her desk because she felt like people will see her as weaker because she was a mother. Um, and you're nodding, so you probably have heard similar things to this. What would you say to someone like that that feels like their lives has to be two separate things?

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Well, they may be in an environment where they need to do that. Not right. Yeah, I don't believe in gaslighting or or delusion.

SPEAKER_03 12:06

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

And so if if the company you're in requires you to do that, so you it may explain why you're feeling more burnt out, more disconnected from yourself. And if that may be one example for somebody that it's not that, and they truly do and can practice being a little more open, so then that's that's a different conversation. But first, we have to look at it from the systemic, from the company, the culture. Um, and if the culture is good, then we can work on the individual. But yeah, I wouldn't want to be blaming the individual first. I'd want to see.

SPEAKER_03 12:42

Yes, yes. So we had uh we had one of our uh episodes was around toxic work environments. And if you don't feel psychologically safe to be to bring such a beautiful part of who you are to work, um, it's time for you to start exploring where your natural-born talents can really bring more to the world because I don't believe that the misalignment of you not being fully yourself at work, and there's been a lot of debates on that, you know, you should not bring your full self at work, you know, and I'm like, I completely disagree with that. I I don't have to, you know, and I I work with clients to help them to do that because of it. And I think what you're what you're describing right now is someone being in survival mode, right? Like, I gotta survive, I have to make a living, I have to do it. But how does the nervous system react when you are constantly in survival mode and you're not giving it a chance to kind of settle and live, live happy?

SPEAKER_02 13:37

No, it's it's

Survival Mode: A Reaction is Automatic, A Response is a Choice

SPEAKER_02 13:38

important. When we're what happens when we're in survival mode, unfortunately, it pulls us more into that. And our responses and our behaviors are gonna go back to those times that we felt um in survival. So, how does one cope in survival, right? There fight, flight, free, ascent. These are different trauma responses. Fight is a is one or flight or is, but those aren't the ones we're typically gonna use.

SPEAKER_03 14:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

We're usually gonna be using the other ones, which are people pleasing, not trusting our intuition, going along with whatever the toxic culture is, because we're gonna be looking mostly to react. We're in reaction mode. So we're looking, okay, what does this place want? How can I fulfill that need as opposed to what do I want? What do I need? And and so I say the difference between a reaction and a response, the response is a choice.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

Love that. So for those who didn't listen, I love that. What is like the difference between a response and a reaction? A respond is a choice, and a reaction for those who didn't hear it, because I'm like, that's like so emperor.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

It's automatic, right? Automatic is automatic. And so the healing of trauma, the healing of past experiences is giving back people that choice. Um, you know, if we just try to say that was in the past, I'll pretend it never happened. That's okay, you can do that. But then most of what you're doing is automatic.

unknown 15:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

And it's just kind of whatever, whatever happened. And this, I'm just living my life unconsciously, automatically.

SPEAKER_03 15:14

Love that. That's you can do that.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

That's your God given right.

SPEAKER_03 15:19

Yes, yes. It's how you decide to live this life. But I think that there's so much more than living in flight, flight, how do they call it? Fly or fight, flight or fight mode. There you go. I've been speaking Spanish all morning. So uh flight or flight mode constantly every single day. And I will tell you that for me specifically, that that came to a place where when I left Corporal America after I was done, I got off the bus, right? I've been running, running, running, running, running, running, got off the bus. All these things came back from before I started Corporal America. So 20 years ago, came back. And it's because I got off that bus. And to your point, I'm glad it did. Uh, I'm glad it did because it allowed me to go back into who I believe I can serve this world better and give more to people in the way that I believe it was meant to be. But the pause piece, what you talk about, I think that a lot of those things are found during pause.

SPEAKER_02 16:17

Uh a response, a burnout, a shutdown, a moment that throws us off our course is a forced pause.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

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SPEAKER_00 16:39

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SPEAKER_01 17:31

And we're back. You're listening to Coffee and Coaching, where we blend real conversations with real growth. Let's jump in.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

You're giving me a lot of good stuff right now. It is a forced pause. Okay. Don't make me go into don't don't give me therapy right now live, but I appreciate that because it is very true. But is it is it less so let's say the world forces you to pause. Is that is that beneficial or or is better when it's voluntary?

SPEAKER_02 17:59

It's always better when it's voluntary, right? Because then it's easier to feel like it was a choice. When you're forced into it, now you have to go back in and you have to re-experience it in a healthier way. And so in EMDR work or trauma work, we're going back in and we're experiencing whatever that experience was, or whether it's a past traumatic event, or it's even a belief system or a way that we've looked at previous experience, now we're gonna relive it in a regulated way. So when we're going back in, now we're going back in, not uh elevated, out of control, but now we go back in in a in a in a chosen way, a con uh a place where we feel safe and in control. And so it's it's just a little bit harder after the fact. It's harder. And so but we're not really taught how to live regulated lives. And so many of us do not. Many of us do not. We all and it's almost like a calling that we're all gonna get called eventually to that forced pause. And if if we don't see it, usually people come in because of the forced cause.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

Of a forced pause, yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

Not out of yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

Yes. I I want to talk about very important EMDR because it changed my life for the better, uh, with my forced pause into the world. Uh and I I honestly was researching it about two months before I ran into this concept. It's not a concept that I I believe everyone should know about it. Like this is something, especially as you go into middle age, like and you have been running and this forced process will come. I don't think a lot of people know about it. So and it and your team does such an amazing job at it. Um and can you tell people a little bit about what it is, what it's to stand for? Because I think it can help a lot of individuals in the business world.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

Yeah, no, 100%. Especially for those who are who are either looking for something more or deeper in therapy, so not just talking about it, venting.

Unpacking EMDR Therapy and Healing the Nervous System

SPEAKER_02 20:04

EMDR is under the umbrella of trauma work, we would call change therapy.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

There's something changing in the process. It's not just that we're talking about it and talking about our week, but we're going into the core root of the experiences in your life. Uh EMDR stands for eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing.

SPEAKER_03 20:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

And so it sounds funky. It sounds weird. Like, what's that eye movement? You use eye movement? What is that?

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

And that's what are originally used, and we use it a lot as well now, but it's side-to-side movement, which allows a person to deepen the experience of whatever it is that they're connecting to. It's positive, resourcing, we call it calming, it'll help them deepen that experience. Yeah. If they're processing a traumatic experience, it'll help them to go into it while feeling regulated enough in the experience itself. So instead of it being re-traumatizing or overwhelming, as it is when we have a flashback or we think about it, now we're able to go and desensitize, right? That lowers the intensity and reprocess. So it something changes in the experience. That's that's a very beginning part uh of an explanation.

SPEAKER_03 21:21

Thank you for that. Because I had no idea what it was. I was I was creating my own calm card for my airplane flight coming up. And so I created this chat on Chat GPT, and I started creating my own calm card and getting data and facts. Because in my mind, if I tell the rational side of my brain that this is an irrational fear, then everything should be fine, right? So because I thought or think that I can control everything. I'm working on it.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

No, that we could think our way out of things and that knowledge our way out. And the the truth is that that's only half our experience. Half our experience is knowledge, the other half is you. Emotional. You want to say the right side of the brain, the other half of your brain is intuition. It's faster than your knowledge base. And so when we're encountering a threat or we're encountering a human being, let's say our boss at work.

SPEAKER_03 22:15

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

It's it's uh what responds? Your your logical side, or is it the first response is gonna actually be your emotional side? Is this safe? Is this safe? If I don't feel safe, boom, my brain's gonna tell me this is a automatically a unsafe place. And so then my logical brain will process it that with that lens. And so I'm going to try to placate. If I'm a people pleaser, I'm gonna try to do what the boss needs. If I'm a fighter, I'm gonna become reactive and irritable. If I'm a flight person, I'm gonna run away or just try to, or I'll check out and I'm not even hearing what they're saying because my brain has already interpreted it as unsafe.

SPEAKER_03 23:00

That is so incredible. I wonder how many people are not saying it, but they are in an unsafe place at work. And to bring back that example of the person who wouldn't bring their family pictures to work, that does not feel like a safe place to me. If the value that I bring as an employee and our brains, I believe, and please correct me if I'm wrong because there's more of this about this, but I think that we connect our ability to provide and bring income as a livelihood thing. So it's like a life or death thing. If I lose this job, like my livelihood is in danger. And that's why in today's environment, a lot of the readings that I've been doing, like our jobs provide as much stress as if we were in the jungle being ran out or a lion behind us, which is even crazy the thing. But in reality, you know, it's the reality of many people in the world.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

It really is, though. And that and that's not a lie. That's actually our truth, and that we live in a society. Um, and that's how we we earn livelihood and support our families and take care of ourselves. And it's very difficult to tell a person in that experience that there could be another way. The other way sometimes is right, creating our own experience. It could be leaving our job, it could be uh changing the way we, you know, work with the people at our job, changing our boundaries, changing our communication. It doesn't always mean leaving. We want to take whatever's the best opportunity in front of us. Sometimes that means leaving, sometimes that means creating our own thing, but it's never reactionary. The best option is rarely, is rarely the automatic one. Rarely. Sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 24:44

I love this. I know a lot of people that live their life reacting. Like, and I don't know if if you've experienced the same with your clients, but even with my clients, I'm like, everything is a reaction of something that happened. Very rarely, they are the catalyst of what's happening next in their lives. Have you experienced that?

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Yeah, I mean, it's there's so many things in our life that are out of our control. So we may just choose to completely surrender used in the unhealthy ways. Surrender used in the healthy way is I'm leaning into what life is. And I do what's in my control and I let go of what's not in my control. But for many people, it's yeah, we can start to just feel a little bit overwhelmed by by all of it. And if we're not supported, you you use the word safety. Um, and so I just wanted to stress the idea that there's different types of safety and on different levels. Maybe we can go into that just we'll love that.

SPEAKER_03 25:42

Wow, we'll love that. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

I think that like we want to feel safe enough. Yeah, we there's never going to be perfect safety. And what does it mean to feel unsafe at work? It may not be physically, it may not even be a threat for your job, but it just may be we call it more emotional safety. And that might be something that many people in the work world don't value. What's the point? Who cares? You're emotionally safe. What does that mean? You're just being overly sensitive. What's the no, like what why? I guess that to somebody who's more like asking me, why should I have my employees feel emotionally safe? Like, what's the advantage for me if you want to speak to that? I would say that that's that's gonna allow us to be it's

The Real ROI of Emotional Safety in the Workplace

SPEAKER_02 26:25

when a person feels truly emotionally safe at work, they're able to be in their creative flow. They're able to be able to be in their their full self-expression. And not just that you get to know about their kids or you get to know them. And there is that connection, that felt sense of connection, and then there's reward and joy and living. And we spend most of our day at work. So might as well make it purposeful and enjoyable. But if let's say you don't care about purpose and you don't care about joy, and you just care about productivity, then even even that, um, there there's there's something to be gained from a productivity standpoint by somebody who's not stressed out and not feeling like they can just focus on what they need to do.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

Yes. I I can tell you we are familiar with the different parts of you, and I've been doing a lot of work with the different parts of you of us and a little bit of IFS, like internal family systems, they're very famous for that.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

Very famous for parts work.

SPEAKER_03 27:26

Yes, I love that. That was new to me, but I also was very excited to explore that. And I know that when we're getting into another realm, I don't know if you feel comfortable talking about it, but I feel like it's so important because there's so many different parts of us, and I do believe that that response that is not a reaction, but that response. The reaction is automatic, but response comes, at least it has helped me, is by knowing the parts of me and learning which one shows up at the moment of responding. So, do you do you want to talk a little bit about that? You know, you you said it, I don't know the term. Internal family system. Yeah.

Internal Family Systems (IFS) & The Different "Parts" of Us

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Internal family systems is one of a branch of ego state therapies. So ego state therapies like the original therapies under the term structural dissociation model. That's like the original research behind it. And then internal family systems is a modality or a therapy that is more famous. And it's IFS.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Love it.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

IFS is famous, and it's ego states, IFS, whatever you want to call it, depending on the therapy. They're all using the same idea that we are, we have different parts of us and or multiple personality. In the extreme, literally, there's a concept of multiple personality or extreme dissociation, split, and then on the regular person, we have different versions of us that show up in in different situations, and uh it's very validating, it's a very empathetic way instead of saying you, it's that part of me, and it really helps us to start to flesh out and not to create more separation, but ironically, to actually help us reintegrate because when it's all chaos and it's all one big mosh pit, we can't quite really get to know ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

Yeah, I I love it. And I think when I think about that, and you were you were talking about different people, how they choose to react. I'm like, oh my God, I am a fighter and I am a people pleaser. And like there's a side of me that it loves to please everyone, was raised that way. And there's the fighting side of me that comes afterwards, right? So like it's uh it's it's one that like I love that because in the strengths world, we we typically tell people like you have a toolbox of different strengths that you bring, natural-born talents, and you choose which one you use when, right? So I'm an introvert, I I am not good at talking, I am um, and also I meeting new people is very nerve-wracking for me. I get really nervous. And a lot of people is like, I will never know. Like, I would have never known. But I'm like, it is 100% who I am. And but I I have to choose a certain strength of mind, the excitement of knowledge, right? Which is like what gets me excited about all of this. And my client and a lot of different clients have different things. So I'm so grateful that you brought that up. I do have a question that I I could talk, I could talk forever about this. But, you know, is there any techniques that you believe could help professionals who are not, you know, don't even realize that they're stressed, right? Uh and and helping them realize when is it tied to deeper experiences versus when it's just they're stressed out?

SPEAKER_02 30:38

I definitely don't think that we should, yeah, overthink it. Like sometimes we we

Recognizing Chronic Patterns & Seeking Therapy

SPEAKER_02 30:45

need to just make sure we're eating, sleeping, and taking care of ourselves. And if we're having a hard time doing that, that could be a good sign right there. Like if we're not eating, sleeping, and being able to take time for ourselves, that could be a sign right there that something's off cue.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

Could be that simple. If it's uh that there's something at work and it's happened, so there's this deadlines, that's one thing. But if you're chronically, if something keeps happening over and over again, that's when you know it's something to look deeper. If it's just a one-time experience, things happen, life happens. But if you notice that you're chronically feeling that way or it happens over and over again, then we start to say maybe there's something that we're being pulled to. Maybe there's something that we're actually not to blame ourselves, but to start to just take accountability and see, okay, what role do we play in this? What how can I shift um that experience?

SPEAKER_03 31:38

I love that so much. Before we wrap today, um, I want to say thank you for having this conversation. It has been so wonderful. What will be the first step that someone that realizes that they're going through this should take? U My recommendation uh will be uh, for me at least, would help me. Uh when it was goal-oriented, I'll go to a coach. But for me, when I realized that the rational side of my brain was not understanding that this airplane is safe and my body was like trembling in the middle of a flight, I was like, okay, this is not normal and I need to get therapy and psychotherapy specifically. What is your recommendation?

SPEAKER_02 32:17

Yeah, I mean, I think it's almost like I have to get over the idea of feeling shy, the idea that not that everyone should go to therapy, but I think that if you but also not, like I'm also not shying away from that. Like the idea at some point in your life, at some point, it could be when you're in your 50s, it could be in your 20s, there will be a moment where it may be time to go inward and that you want to shift and shift the the parts of you and specifically psychotherapy and and specifically I use EMDR and trauma work because that's that next level, right? It's not just about talking about our week or having it's nice to have support in traditional talk therapy, but you actually want to change something, you want to face some of those hard things. So I definitely recommend looking into somebody that does that kind of work, so trauma work, uh, whether they're doing EMDR, IFS, or somatic work, and yeah, that they have that training. So that that you could really work on it on the emotional and uh body level.

SPEAKER_03 33:18

Thank you so much. And and I think if it's so I am a I believe everyone should go to therapy, in my opinion. I come from a culture where it's not recommended, right? My mom is like, what do you need to go to therapy for Latino community is very hesitant of it? But I like I have seen, I always say about my own children, like, my job is to try to limit the amount of hours they're gonna spend in therapy in adulthood, right? Because for me, like I the emotional intelligence piece, I try to teach it to my 12-year-old daughter. And even with my son, like I do things that I didn't do before, like tell me how are you feeling? And he's like, I'm feeling frustrated, right? That conversation that I don't remember ever having that conversation before. So I think we can do a little bit better and a little bit more. But to my, in terms of what has helped me and many that I see around, is like I have the language, I have the words to be able to bring that better. I do believe that what the work that Mandel, that you and your group do, is remarkable. I have been positively impacted, allowing me to show up at work better, allowing me to show up at my company, allowing me to show up here better because of the work that you do in your group. So thank you so much for what you do because you're truly, literally healing the world.

SPEAKER_02 34:31

Thank you. I really appreciate you taking the time and inviting me. And I really enjoy your presence and your energy.

SPEAKER_03 34:37

So I do as well. Mandel, thank you for bringing such a grounding and profound energy to the show today. It was incredible to just hear you talk and your perspective and perceptions on what burnout is and it isn't, and how hard we are with ourselves, how hard we are to our bodies. It is important to know that sometimes when you're living your life an autopilot, like I have, life is gonna catch up with you at some point, and you need to have the resources when you're ready. Because to be honest, I am a mom. I didn't give the tools to my children. I am not a certified psychotherapist. I try as much to teach them, but with that, our parents didn't have the time or the knowledge to teach us how to navigate to some really hard stuff that we deal with on a regular basis in today's world. So, thank you all for joining, Mendel. I am so honored to have you as our first psychotherapist on the podcast. And I hope everyone is having a fantastic rest of your day. See you in our next episode for coffee and coaching. Take care.