EP.19: How to Manage Grief at Work

How do you keep working when your heart is broken?
Grief coach Heather Greenwell joins coach Karol Figueroa to explore what happens when grief follows you into the workplace and why healing and productivity are not the same thing.

Learn why grief goes far beyond losing a loved one, how it impacts your focus, motivation, and decision-making, and why taking time to heal isn't a sign of weakness. Heather also explains when to use workplace resources like FMLA and Employee Assistance Programs (EAPs), and shares practical ways to navigate loss while continuing to show up at work.

If you're grieving a loved one, a relationship, your health, or the life you thought you'd have, this episode will remind you that you don't have to carry it alone.

Connect with today’s guest, Heather Greenwell

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heather-greenwell-7434b11a7/   

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/1KJCsuqYSn/ 

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mystic_insights_87?_r=1&_t=ZT-963RcfZwOlB 

Meet your host: Karol Figueroa

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karolfigueroa/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/karol.figueroa.tate/

Need support at work? HIK Trainings can help.

Website: https://www.hiktrainings.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hiktrainings/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hiktrainings

Transcript

Intro

SPEAKER_04 0:00

I think it all depends on how grief shows up for each individual. When you think about how grief shows up, it is not this small arbitrary emotion that calmly walks up to you and peeks its head in and says, hi.

SPEAKER_03 0:15

It's like a wave. It is. It comes and takes you down. Manners are afraid of taking FMLA or leave because they believe it's gonna impact their jobs.

SPEAKER_04 0:25

Being productive does not mean that you're healing. If you're not productive, it doesn't mean that you're failing at healing either.

SPEAKER_03 0:37

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to Coffee and Coaching. Today's episode is going to be a very, very important one for anyone that feels like you still need to show up at work, even though you're heartbroken. Whether you went through a breakup, whether you lost a loved one, whether you are getting a divorce, you're grieving. And if you're in the process of grieving, and guess what? You still have to show up at work, this episode is for you. We're going to talk about the rights. We're going to talk about the many different things and what grief really means. Health changes are also a grieving process. Identity chips are a grieving process. Grieving has more layers than you ever thought. Today we're joined by grief coach Heather Greenwell in coffee and coaching. Heather is an amazing human being that I happened to meet in one of my coaching trainings, and I was in awe when I heard that she helps coach people through health changes, as well as some of her focuses on grieving children going through a transition or a loss of a loved one. She is an expert and her energy is so crucial and vital to everything that she does. I'm so excited to have her here. I personally went through a really big grieving process, and instead of pausing and taking my time, I kept going. When we created the season with life his work, I ensured that grief was in this topic and that we had a grief coach so we can talk about how do you still be able to keep working while you're grieving. So grab a cup of coffee or tea or your selection and let's sit down and talk to the amazing Heather Greenwell. So a lot of people, when they think about grief, they think about someone in their family dying or some kind of death. What are some of the different kinds of grieving that someone could be experiencing?

SPEAKER_04 2:23

Well, I think in order to understand grief, right, and kind of how it shows up and what it is. I mean, it's the body's natural response to a significant life change or major loss that really impacts us emotionally, physically, and cognitively. And so when it does show up, there are a handful of emotions that accompany it. So it can be heartache and sorrow and anger and even love, right? And these are big feelings that really force us to sit down and address all of our feelings at one time. So, yes, to your point, a common belief is that grief shows up when you've lost somebody, um, a loved one, maybe they've passed away. But grief

Grieving the Unspoken: Health Changes, Friendship Breakups, and Lost Dreams

SPEAKER_04 3:09

actually shows up in other scenarios as well. So if you are navigating relationships, whether platonic or romantic, and maybe you have somebody that you've been friends with for 15 plus years, you have a falling out, and there's a part of the part of you that really grieves the loss of that relationship. The same can be said for romantic relationships if you're navigating through separation or divorce or even co-parenting dynamics. I've had clients that I've worked with who are grieving health changes that they've experienced.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

So, like cancer, anything like terminal of the sort.

SPEAKER_04 3:53

Absolutely, or even something as short-lived as taking blood pressure medication. Yeah. Right? It's a it's a big switch from taking it, not taking any medication to then turning around and taking it, right? Yes. And then even in scenarios where I think it's more common in today's economy where your company has layoffs and you're impacted by losing your job. Yeah. Right. And even expectations that you have for yourself and how your life should turn out. I think we probably all know somebody who kind of feels like, oh, by this age, I should be married with kids, or I should be at a certain level in my career. And it doesn't pan out.

SPEAKER_03 4:37

Yes. Right? Those are all scenarios. That's a big one. I actually had uh I deal with a lot of executive women in their mid-40s, 50s, and the loss of the idea of having a child. Now there's a lot of like you can freeze your eggs and like all that stuff. But when that option is not there, and like now I have to grieve the fact that I thought that maybe one day I'll get to being a mother. And now they're grieving the idea, they're grieving the dream. And it's so interesting. The other thing that comes to mind is like the wheel of emotions.

unknown 5:09

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

And I have one of her coaches constantly lets me know that I am human and that I have all these feelings.

Emotional Agony vs. Sadness: Breaking the "Thug" Persona

SPEAKER_03 5:19

And I think I'm a Power Ranger, right? Like, I'm like, nah. There's this gift from Cardi B that she's like, I'm an emotional thug. I cry once a week, something like that. I don't know, something crazy. But I'm like, in my mind, I'm like, I remember the day I have to grieve the emotions that I that I was feeling in my case through a custody trial and like working through a divorce, right? The divorce wasn't a stuff, it was more like the custody thing, right? This is your child. And I remember looking into the wheel because I was like still early in my coaching career, and saying for the first time, I never because I'm like, this is not sadness. This is not sadness. I'm like, and and looking deeper, it's like I've never felt agony before. Like I can genuinely say I understand the difference between sadness and agony. And like you're saying, like all this big feeling, so to speak emotions like love that you get to that point where you're going to experience like that, that's that's some heavy stuff.

SPEAKER_04 6:18

Absolutely. Right? Uh it's it's not always an easy, an easy path to navigate through. But you really have to sit with it in order to be to be able to process your grief.

SPEAKER_03 6:29

Yes. Yeah. So I had uh I met last week with a CEO um of a company, and I hope she's okay with me sharing this. And she talked about uh, and it's a big story of why she started the company she started, but she had to deal with steelbirth of her child. And one of the questions that was asked is like, hey, how did you deal with that? And she said something that's gonna lead me to my next question to you. Uh, she was like, Well, it was it it wasn't until six years after it happened that it all hit me. And on this, in those six years, she went to work, she opened a company, she got funded, like a lot of money, millions of dollars. So, she's a million-dollar funded company, did all of that, it didn't hit her till two years ago. So, I want to ask you a little bit of what happens there. Is that common?

SPEAKER_04 7:17

So it is common. I think it all depends on how grief shows up, right? For each individual.

The Violent Wave: Acute, Anticipatory, and Prolonged Grief

SPEAKER_04 7:26

I think it's fair to say that when you think about how grief shows up, it is not this small arbitrary emotion that calmly walks up to you and peeks its head in and says, hi, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:41

It is like a wave. It is comes and takes you down.

SPEAKER_04 7:46

Yes, it's a powerhouse of feelings and beliefs that's like coming down the hallway at you at full speed, and suddenly, boom, it's right in your face. And grief has no problem making its presence known and showing up. Now there are different types of grief, right? Like there is acute grief, which happens immediately, and there is anticip anticipatory grief, where it your body is kind of prepping, expecting something to take place that hasn't happened yet. And there's also prolonged grief, which according to clinical definition, is grief that lasts anywhere from six months or more, right? But it takes time to process through your grief, and that can take years.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

So what if you don't have years? Because years is a long, long, long, long time. And I got things to do, you know what I'm saying? So like I feel like, yeah. Can you control how long you're grieving for?

SPEAKER_04 8:56

No, you really can't, you can't control it.

SPEAKER_03 8:59

And I just I want to say that because like there's a lot of people with agendas that are watching the show that have like timelines, and let me tell you this funny story because I think it's relevant. After I was done, because I was in immediate grief when I was going through that process of feeling agony. I was in the immediate, I was feeling it, and everybody around me knew, and like it was it was it was interesting for many reasons. We can get into in a minute. Funny thing, fast forward four years after, it showed up as something else. And it's in my mind, I'm like, no, I'm done grieving. That that grieving is gone. Like I did that, I did the work. I grieved, I got a therapist, I did like the crying, and I'm like, oh that. And then fast forward, it came back up again as a form of something else, like a fear or a thing or like an anxiety about something.

SPEAKER_04 9:46

And is that common? It is common. I mean, so I too have experienced grief with losing my mother, right? And it's impacted me in a lot of different ways. But one thing, one way in which it shows up is when I'm parenting my kids, right? If I'm navigating my own grief, right, and feeling all the feels and the emotions that come up with it, you know, I may not be able to show up always in the way that I'd like to for my kids. And so, yes, grief impacts other areas of your day-to-day, whether it's work, whether it's your relationships with friends and family, it's there. I think the important thing to take away is that as you navigate through your grief journey, regardless of the circumstance, is that you may reach a place where you feel really good where you're at with your grief. Yeah. But then something will come along that might cause it to come back up. And that's okay. It's a journey, it's not a destination to reach the end, to heal, to be done. Like it is just a continuation of a process.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

And I love that you do grief coaching because that's something that can be explained for someone going through that process, as well as the therapy, right? Because we're I also want us to talk a little bit about that difference, right? So something that comes up with my clients a lot is the because we teach emotional intelligence through the leaders on how to manage your emotions. Because we always talk, the only thing guarantee in life is that you're going to feel feelings. In order for you to be human, you have to have a limpic system. And I always

Neuroscience of Loss: The Limbic System vs. The Prefrontal Cortex

SPEAKER_03 11:22

give this example uh about the limpic system and the prefrontal cortex. Prefrontal cortex is the rational side of your brain, limpic system is the emotional side of your brain. The limpic system releases 70% of the energy that goes through your body when you're taking action, thinking, feeling, or behaving. And 30% of it comes from your rational side. If anything were to happen to you and that prefrontal cortex is gone, you can rebuild it. It is based, it's built based on memory. But your limpic system, if anything happens to you and suddenly you don't have a limpic system, you still you die. So it sounds very morbid, but it's something that I constantly let my clients know, especially when I have clients that are in denial of emotions. And I'm like, the only thing guaranteed in life is that you're going to feel. And it doesn't matter if you suppress those emotions, it doesn't matter if you pretend that you're a thug, like it's gonna come up. And and your ability to manage them when it comes up, that's what makes professionals like climb faster in their career or be able to achieve those things faster because they don't omit them, they acknowledge them. And I think like with this grief, what happens is there's so many emotions, so many feelings that come up, and you're like, oh my god, right? And I'll tell you, even when you think you're you have studied emotional intelligence, you're prepared, you're not. You're not. It's it's it's just crazy how it hits you. And and the and it's guaranteed that in life you will grieve something. And yeah, right. Yeah, how can you not when you have so many things that you love in this life?

SPEAKER_05 12:52

Right. And as you stated, it's part of the human experience. I mean, to exist is to grieve, but it's also to love. Like you have to be able to balance between both arenas.

SPEAKER_03 13:01

Yes, exactly. Okay, let's go into so everybody knows the seven stages of grief or five. Oh, they this is why we bring coaches that are experts in their field, because I'm not an expert in this field. So,

The Stages Myth: Why You Can't Process Grief in an Excel Sheet

SPEAKER_03 13:16

what are the five stages of of grief?

SPEAKER_04 13:18

So the they would be denial, they are anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. And I think more recently, there's a sixth one that's been added, and it's called meaning, right? And so the traditionally the five stages of grief, right, were created by Elizabeth Kugler-Ross as a framework to understand a little bit more about what terminally ill patients go through and experience as they are dying. It wasn't initially created as a framework to help those who were navigating loss and bereavement. But it has been a tool that I think is been pretty, it's pretty common and has been integrated into our culture that you're you see it in movies all the time.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:10

And you what's interesting about the stages is that even though you're navigating through your grief, you may not experience all of them. So you may experience two or three of them. Yeah, right. And so the idea of the six one being added uh for meaning is to kind of take that full circle of experience, like the the situation you're navigating and have it make meaning. What does it mean to you? How do I build from here forward? Yes, yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

I I first of all, I did not know that you could not go through some of those stages because that that makes a little bit more sense to me. I'm like, I felt for a long time I'm like, I skipped all of them and went to acceptance. It's done now, it's been processed. I have an Excel sheet, it's over. Yes, and it apparently does not work like that.

SPEAKER_05 15:04

It doesn't, you gotta feel all the feels, right? You have to. Yeah. Otherwise, it does show up later. And it comes out differently, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:15

Yeah, and it comes and it comes in a wave. Like yeah, like I'm gonna be open up for me uh after I finish grieving that because I thought I was gone. I also had a baby, so a lot of like different life changes happening simultaneously, and then suddenly I leave corporate and I get on, like I start flying, and my fear of flying from when I was 21 came back. And so I hire a EMVR therapist and I'm like, hey, I need this gone. So what's the plan? Or how are we? It's like, well, you gotta go through it. I'm like, no, you don't understand. I went through it four years ago. We don't need to be going through this again. It's like your body is telling you that it needs to go through it. There's this saying that says, you know, the only way out is through. And I think that's what I think about when I think through grief and all those different things. So tell me a little bit about someone going through grief at work. What are some of the like misconceptions that people have about going through it at work? What are some of the things that they can do to be able to show up at work in order to do that?

SPEAKER_04 16:19

So I think some of the things that can be helpful navigating grief when you're at work is still kind of having the awareness of where your limits are at, right? Because

Executive Function Under Stress: Why Productivity is Not Healing

SPEAKER_04 16:33

grief impacts focus and productivity, you're not gonna function on a normal kind of basis as you normally would, right? Things are gonna impact it. And part of that is working on a task, and maybe in the moment you're focused on completing an assignment, but as you're working on it, suddenly you have an intrusive thought, or you have a memory that kind of resurfaces of the grief that you're experiencing, maybe of the romantic relationship or the loss of the loved one, and suddenly you're in the throes of grief. Wow, right? And you're in those feelings, and it's like, wait a minute, I was trying to work on work and now I'm distracted. And I think realizing that that's okay to stop and take a pause and process.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

Be kind to yourself.

SPEAKER_04 17:25

Absolutely, because again, grief is showing up in a way that's intrusive, and you're feeling all the feels, and your brain is on bandwidth overload, like you can't absorb anymore. And in the moment, it's hard to kind of go back to what you need to be focused on. Yes, yes, it also affects executive functioning, right? Which is the part of your brain that does planning and decision making and staying on task. Yes, and that's okay too. Like that research shows that it's normal for that part of yourself to be affected through throughout the process. Um, so I definitely think that remembering to find balance, give yourself grace, and knowing where your limits are at. Um, the other thing that comes up is that if you have the ability to be productive, that's awesome. But being productive does not mean that you're healing, right? And if you're not productive, it doesn't mean that you're failing at healing either, right? It means that you are navigating that wave of I'm productive in the moment, but then I need to take a breath and kind of make space for myself.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

Wow. So what you're saying is, and this is so important because I didn't know that's how it worked. So being productive doesn't mean that you're grieving. And when you stop being productive because you're grieving, like it's all part of the process, including that pause. Yes. That's super interesting.

SPEAKER_04 19:01

Yeah. I mean, because again, yes, you're overwhelmed, overloaded with emotions and again, intrusive thoughts and feelings. And if you're in an emotional state, everything is all over the place.

SPEAKER_05 19:15

It's all over the place. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

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SPEAKER_01 19:31

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SPEAKER_02 20:23

And we're back. You're listening to Coffee and Coaching, where we blend real conversations with real growth. Let's jump in.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

What happens when you feel like flaring out at work? Like you can't hide it anymore. Like all these different things are happening, and and I feel like it's showing on the edges. Because I feel like sometimes it can be mental a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 20:47

It can be.

SPEAKER_03 20:47

Yeah, like nobody knows, but then like I, for example, for me, like I start oversharing. I'm like, and this is happening and this is happening, and this is happening because I'm like, I probably might. Is it okay? I guess.

SPEAKER_04 21:00

So yes. But again, I think it kind of comes back to understanding your boundaries and what's important to you. I think in in some scenarios, yes. If you're having a tough, really tough day and you need to pull your manager or supervisor aside and just say, hey, I'd like I need a few moments to breathe. I feel like that boundary can be towed of, hey, I'm sharing and letting you know that I'm having a heavy moment, but I don't have to tell you everything, right? Because it's I love it. Right. Like it's your workplace, right? Yes. And it's not that people don't care about you, but still like you're balancing showing up for yourself and showing up for your employer.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 21:44

And then I think also making sure that if you're having a tough day, that you are eating and you are drinking and you are taking a few minutes to step outside and see the sunshine and just reground yourself. Yes. Yeah. Sometimes employers have. Of different personal leave programs available to employees that are also helpful. A lot of the time, depend well, depending on

Knowing Your Workplace Rights: Navigating FMLA, EAPs, and Corporate Stigma

SPEAKER_04 22:07

the scenario that you're navigating through, you could qualify for FMLA, which is the Family Medical Leave Act. There are specific paperwork that has to be completed and submitted back to your employer. But if it is approved, it does project, it does protect you from losing your job.

SPEAKER_05 22:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 22:24

If you need a specific workplace accommodation, so for example, if you're a primary caregiver of a parent, then you could have the FMLA paperwork completed, filled out, and the HR team on site can help work with you to provide an accommodation. There's also employee assistance programs, which are my favorite for a couple of reasons, because they are a third-party vendor that your employer works with, right? To be able to provide you support. And you can reach out to EAPs for legal support, for counseling, and a variety of different other kinds of areas. And as the employee, if you reach out and connect with the EAP services, they will help connect you to somebody in your local vicinity and provide you with that support.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

I love that.

SPEAKER_04 23:23

And a lot of the times it's free counseling. There can be a certain amount of sessions available to you before you would have out-of-pocket expenses, but it's there. And what I really, really love about it is the fact that it's all confidential. So as the employee, you're reaching out, you're getting support. That third party is not going back to your employer and saying, so-and-so is navigating all of this. They don't even send them that that any information at all. So it's truly you have support there through your workplace if you need it.

SPEAKER_03 23:56

Yeah. I love that. I think that the other piece that I feel interesting is that there's a lot of stigma with FMLA. I've known of people that are like, I'm not going to use it yet. And I'm like, you're like one employee I used to have is like he needed someone in his family to do surgery. And I'm like, this is absolutely one of those times you can. But it's like there was a fear of if I do it, I'm going to be seen as I'm not doing my job or negligible or I can't handle it. And it's going to come up on my performance evaluation next time. So I think like employers and companies have put a really good guardrails around certain things. And then, but still, even though they put the guardrails, there's still like stigmas that people believe managers will have and it will end up affecting their employment. So I just want to ask, I just want to say if you're in that situation, you're in the wrong place. Get the heck out. These laws have been established for a reason. And you taking that pause and taking that time protects your employment. If you're being judged against taking FMLA, then you should definitely talk to HR about that. I would agree. Managers are afraid of taking FMLA or leave because they believe it's going to impact their jobs. And what are all these laws put together for? The same thing happens with believe it or not, with uh pregnancy. Like a lot of women are afraid of telling their managers that are gonna go, they're gonna go on maternity leave. And when and I've been there where I had a manager who was so mad that an employee was pregnant, and for some reason feels so comfortable letting me know how mad he was. And I get it, work's gonna stop for a little bit, but companies should have budgets for this, they should have the backup to help managers deal. And in in in the US, we don't even have that much maternity leave. No, we don't, and we're getting cut those benefits. So, okay, I can talk to you forever about this. If there's one thing you will leave people with on this topic of greed and how they handle it at work, what will it be?

SPEAKER_04 26:02

So I would say that there's probably a couple things. I think when

Cultivating Micro-Joys: Grounding Yourself in the Morning

SPEAKER_04 26:07

you're navigating grief, one of the most important things that you could do for yourself is making sure that you're finding those little moments to reground yourself because it's going to help you navigate forward. And so something that I found to be helpful for myself, and I know some of my other clients would agree, is that first thing in the morning, you need that barrier to the rest of the world. So taking a few minutes by yourself to enjoy a sip of your coffee or tea can really suit the soul. Yes. But also finding time to journal and do a brain dump can really help you process and let go those feelings and emotions. So write it all down the good, the bad, the ugly. I mean, grief is not beautiful and it's not supposed to be. So get it out. And then remember your wins and acknowledge your microjoys so that you remember that there are positive things that are still around you as you're navigating through these big feelings and that beauty still exists when it feels like maybe it doesn't, right? And I think those aspects can help you stay grounded as an individual, but still show up for the other people who are around you.

SPEAKER_03 27:31

I I want to say this because this topic is so timely, but your soul is so beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 27:37

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 27:37

And um, one of my biggest pleasures is to be able to witness this in real life and see you and see all the beautiful things that you do, how you help patients that just got diagnosed with cancer, how you want to focus on that child who's in the parent, like all the things that you do to me is it's just so needed. Therapy is therapy, but grief coaching specifically, definitely you should still do therapy. Absolutely. Absolutely. But that grief coach will help you with just seeing clearly and seeing where which stage of that grief you're in and what are what what what real goals you can set up for the stage that you're in.

Pause Before Deciding: Grief Coaching vs. Long-Term Career Goals

SPEAKER_03 28:16

So if you go to someone like me that I'm a career coach and you're like, I'm trying to set up these goals and you're going through a grief moment, it's probably gonna be really hard for me as a career coach to coach you going through grief. But if you're going with a person that specializes in grief coaching, she will have much more of a lens and consideration for where are you in that stage of that grief? And should you be making long-term decisions at this moment where you're experiencing this grief. Because I can tell you right now, when I was going through mine, I should not have made any long-term career, any long-term decisions because it was such a big, big moment. Thank you so much, Heather, for today's episode. You are incredible, and I am so grateful to have you, your energy, and to have met you and continue to learn from your amazing ability, your amazing empathy that we all need. So if you leave with anything on this episode, I want to let you know that grief changes affect everyone. And it can affect your motivation, it can affect your memory, your focus, your patience, and how you show up on your day-to-day responsibilities. And instead of judging ourselves for that, maybe we can learn how to work with it and around it. And also we can learn what are the tools that I need to pause. And if you're at a place where you don't feel safe pausing, that is a completely different conversation. And I'm gonna need you to listen to our episode with Vilma Uzaite of whether you are in a place or a time of transition for also changing where you work. But again, when grieving happens, it's really hard for us to make rational decisions as our Olympic system is running away. Hope this episode was helpful for you. Thank you for your time today, and I'll see you on the next episode of season two when live hits work. Take care.