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Coffee and Coaching
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Coffee and Coaching
EP.20: How to Keep Working Through Divorce
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Certified divorce coach Dr. Courtney Evans joins coach Karol Figueroa to explore why divorce feels like the death of your former self and how that grief can impact your confidence, focus, and performance at work.
Learn why divorce puts your nervous system into survival mode, how to decide whether to tell your manager what's happening, and when to lean on resources like Employee Assistance Programs (EAPs). Courtney also explains the difference between a lawyer, therapist, and divorce coach, and shares practical strategies for protecting your boundaries while rebuilding your life.
If you're navigating divorce or supporting someone who is, this episode offers practical guidance and a reminder that healing happens one wave at a time.
Connect with today’s guest, Courtney Evans
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-courtney-ever-after-press-440592245/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drcourt_everafterpress
Website: https://www.drcourtney.me/
Meet your host: Karol Figueroa
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karolfigueroa/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/karol.figueroa.tate/
Need support at work? HIK Trainings can help.
Website: https://www.hiktrainings.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hiktrainings/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hiktrainings
Intro
SPEAKER_02Divorce, as we know, it can be traumatizing. And it comes with sadness, it comes with grief, it comes with anger, it comes with everything. But one thing that I think that people don't shine enough of a light on is divorce is actually a death.
SPEAKER_04I do believe that some people believe everyone has a choice and that the divorce was choice pain. It was a decision that you made that caused you pain versus something inevitable and accidental that caused you pain.
SPEAKER_02The reality of it is a divorce, it is like a rash. But when people, the people who go, ew, you're getting a divorce, you are literally holding up a mirror to every insecurity they have.
SPEAKER_03Welcome, welcome, welcome to another episode of Coffee and Coaching. I am your Teesa's host, Carol Figueroa, and today we're tackling one of the heaviest life events and topics anyone can go through at the work. And that is divorce. I have gone through it in my personal life. Our guest for today has gone through it, and I can tell you, no one ever plans for this. No one ever goes into a marriage thinking that this is how it will end. Yet, 50% of people will experience divorce that have gotten married at some point, based on statistics. So certainly, while you're at work, you have to manage and figure out how am I gonna make this work, this death, this ending, while I still have to produce for me and my family. So guess what? Today I am honored to introduce you to Dr. Courtney Evans, a super badass coach. She specializes in divorce, also author of the best-selling book on Cage, and founder of Ever After Publishing. Today we're getting real, real deep about divorce, what it actually is, how it actually shows up at work, also how your nervous system works away, while you're in five or flight moment, and why is it so difficult for you to be able to connect with people through this when they have not gone through it, and it almost feels like you're contagious because you are going through a divorce. This is real topics for real people, guys, and I am so excited to have Courtney, an amazing human that I actually love talking to her every time. It's so much energy. So I hope you enjoy this conversation. Let's dive in.
SPEAKER_04Courtney, it's a pleasure to have you here. Oh, and in addition to that, of course, she has been a divorce coach for a long time before she even opened her publisher. And her book is just lessons that I I can tell you just based on what I've read, lessons that I wish I would have known before getting into a marriage. Not before getting into a divorce, because no one ever plans to get divorced. That's not the point of getting married. That's not the point. So, Courtney, it's a pleasure to have you coffee and coaching today. I I am I am so excited to have you.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much for having me. I am incredibly excited to be here. I love these types of conversations and I love the spark that I have with you and I know I'm gonna have with your community. So I'm excited. I know you are.
SPEAKER_04I have absolutely no doubt. So let's dive in. Let's talk about divorce for a little bit. So, one of the things that you know I'm obsessed about is identity and how different things surround us shape our identity, whether it's at work, at home, and whatnot. And I think divorce is one of those things that reshapes our identity the most. Can you tell me based on your personal experience, coaching woman through divorce, why do you think that is?
SPEAKER_02Divorce, as we know, it can be traumatizing. And it comes with sadness, it comes with grief, it comes with anger, it comes with everything. But one thing that I think that people don't shine enough of a light on is
Divorce as a Death
SPEAKER_02divorce is actually a death. It is like a death. And when someone you love dies in and you know, around you in your world, it forever changes how you present yourself and how you also picture the world, your perspective. It's not any different with divorce because at the end of the day, when you divorce, you are not only losing a home, a rhythm, a routine, maybe some, you know, financial peace, but you are losing a version of yourself that you were before you got married, while you were married. You're losing another person who, let's be real, if you married them, you put a lot of love, energy, stock into them. So we're not, we don't treat it the same, but the grief and the uncertainty that comes along with a divorce is mirrored to a death of a loved one. So it's going to just ripple effect and change and impact every single part of your life as everything that you lost with them unravels around you.
SPEAKER_04I just love that you said that because, and again, I go back not just to my personal experience, but some of my clients that are going through divorce. Um, and for me also as a woman, at times we are taught to find a husband, be married, have fits, like all of these roles and expectations, like it's different for men, and things have changed as the Bridgeturn times, right? Bridgerton is at a different level, right? But but there's still an expectation. You know, your parent, at least I'm I'm I'm Latina, so like my parents all the time. I still remember, like after I was done with college, it's like, so when are you having kids? When are we getting married? When am I getting grandchildren? I'm like, hold up, hold up. I just graduated college, right? But it's like it's a very unspoken expectation and sometimes very widely spoken of your identity as someone's wife. And I think there's another piece that like comes to mind for me is that no one goes in thinking that they're going to get divorced, but also you're grieving the dream. You're you're grieving like I had a dream that all these things was gonna happen, we're gonna accomplish all these things. And this is something that a lot of people that have gone through it, I always say, like, whether you were the one who initiated the divorce and the walking away, or you were the one who stayed behind, you're still grieving, you're still feeling the pain, you were still carrying that weight. And what happens is sometimes even the people who initiate it tend to have been carrying the weight even longer.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. Oh, yes.
SPEAKER_04That is like, wait, hold on, where did this happen? You know?
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. But they one thing that I've noticed in my practice is is that they don't, I won't say women all the time, but there is times where it is women more so than men that initiate divorce. And what they don't realize themselves is they've carried that grief for so long that once they're divorced and things have settled, that's when they finally feel it. They've carried it for longer than they realize because they've gone through the emotions of seeing what they've lost, because that's what caused them to initiate it. They lost whatever they found to be the security, the safety, the love, the connection that they had, maybe even sometimes years before the divorce actually happens. So they're like, well, I initiated it and I already felt all of these things. Why do I feel this way now? And it's because you finally have the space to be able to feel those things, to set everything else down and feel the weight and the grief of the decision. Even if you made the decision, it's still a loss. It doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_04It is. I want to go a little bit uh deeper into this based on your experience with your clients, like all this identity shifting, how does it show up on the work?
SPEAKER_02Well,
Fight-or-Flight and Nervous System Overload at Work
SPEAKER_02I mean, it can show up in multiple different ways. The one that I think I see the most, I can give you kind of the science behind it. What you're gonna see is kind of a nervous system overload when you're going through a divorce. It's where you kind of go into an activated fight or flight response. So if you are getting a divorce, there's a reason. There's something that has happened. And it could be that there was trying times with your spouse, you've lost faith in your spouse. There could be predicating events, you know, adultery, things like that. Whatever it is, it has led to a sense of feeling unsafe. And when you feel unsafe, it's almost as if you've seen a bear or a snake or a spider to fill that in with whatever your greatest fear is, minus snakes. So your body goes into this overwhelming sense of survival mode. So that means that your concentration is gonna suffer. That means your confidence is going to dip. You're gonna be less productive, probably more sleepy, maybe unusually reactive rather than responsive, distracted, withdrawn, tearful. You're not gonna want to show up to work like you you did before. Your resilience is gonna be down. You're gonna start to kind of lose a sense of yourself. So maybe you're a you know, boss babe CEO who rules the courtroom, and then you walk in there and you're like, oh, I can't do this anymore. I'm not capable anymore. So it's can show up in a multitude of different ways, but what it really boils down to is that nervous system just doesn't feel safe anymore in your environment with yourself. You've lost a sense of trust in yourself. So that is gonna ripple into everything that you do at work at home too. Yes.
SPEAKER_04I've seen it again and again and again. And I've also seen people trying to coach to it. Like, yeah, I know, like they're like my clients come in and say, Yeah, my manager told me, Yeah, I know that's happening at home, but this is work. You have to leave home at home and come to work. And I'm just like, it took everything in me to be like, do they have FMLA? And like, because I'm like, for me, this is a crisis, it's a crisis. Like, if if someone would have died in your family, you would have taken FMLA. Yes. This is like this is a right people thought to have at work. And what some companies have done is that they they put shame into you taking FMLA while she took FMLA for a divorce.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04You know, so why?
SPEAKER_02But why are we doing that?
SPEAKER_04Thank you.
SPEAKER_02Because
Why Corporate America Grieves a Death but Shames a Divorce
SPEAKER_02would you ever say that as a boss? And if you're listening to this and you're a CEO, you're a boss, your manager, if someone came to you and said, My mom died, would you look at them and say, You need to leave that at home? I can tell you that they wouldn't. And it's so funny that you bring that up because I work for the same company that I did right after my divorce. And the responses that I got for some of the ways I was showing up was wholeheartedly different than my mom died last October. And I was able to take as much time as I needed. It was very everything's okay, do what you need to do. And it was, it's it was such a difference. Why are we doing that? Why is it okay to take as much time when you need when you actually physically lose somebody than when you're going through a divorce? You're still losing somebody. You're losing yourself. You might be losing your home. There are so many pieces that are falling apart. Why is it okay to have that narrative?
SPEAKER_04Why does it like I just I want to go deeper into this because this is how we can show how companies can show up better for employees going through this? My theory, and I want you to debate me and fight me over this with all your wrath. If you think I'm a corporation, my theory is everyone has a mother and people that, and this is a real one that I'm gonna talk about because includes identity, people that are going through a divorce, a lot of people that are still married or have been married or have been married for 30 years or have been married through 15 years or have been married or recently married. Sometimes I feel like when someone around you is getting a divorce, it's almost like someone has a rash. Yes. Am I wrong?
The Contagious "Rash" Metaphor: Holding Up a Mirror to Others' Insecurities
SPEAKER_04Yes, someone has a rash, and oh, and I I met I met your spouse, and now you're not together, and like I don't want it to be contagious. Like, like is that gonna spread, right? And I think the empathy is lower because everyone has a mother. So if you are like, I lost my mother, which God forbid, right? And I'm sorry for your loss because I I can all it's terrible. Like everyone has a mother's side, okay, I can relate, I can connect to that because oh my god, if it happened to me, right? Like what I just did, like, oh my god. Yeah, but it's gonna happen. It's inevitable and it's terrible and it's painful. I do believe that some people believe everyone has a choice and that the divorce was choice pain versus it was a decision that you made that caused you pain versus something inevitable and accidental that caused you pain.
SPEAKER_02Yes. And I can't, I cannot, I can't bring you any wrath or debate because I wholeheartedly agree with you. But I am gonna stand 10 toes down on why I agree with you. The reality of it is, is a divorce, you are you are absolutely right. It is like a rash. But when people, the people who go, ew, you're getting a divorce, you are literally holding up a mirror to every insecurity they have. Because if you look at it, the people around you who are in secure marriages, they feel happy with their spouse, fulfilled with their spouse, they don't really get involved. They say, I'm sorry to hear that. They, they're there for you if you need them to be, or they're not if they can't be. But the ones that are, ew, a divorce and talking about it, squawking about it, it's because you are unearthing some insecurity of theirs. They they want the same thing or they see the same thing coming, but they don't know how to make it happen. So they're gonna judge you for doing it. Yes.
SPEAKER_04And divorce is a blessing, but now right away.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_04Like, and the reason I say it's a blessing is because I literally was talking to an employee from my husband who she lives in the Philippines, and we
Invisible Cuts
SPEAKER_04were having a conversation, and she's like, Yeah, there's no divorce here. I'm like, What do you mean? She's like, No, it's not legal. Like you literally legally divorcing, it's like it's an outlaw situation. So the fact that a woman can walk away, and that's why I believe that in your case, in your comment, mostly women start a process, is because now they have a way to to get out. And I'm not saying that you're necessarily being abused or this is something that I actually heard from a client. Um she said to me, I think it would have been actually easier if he hit me. Said those words.
SPEAKER_02I said those exact words. Because people understand that. I had people who literally said to me, Well, did he hit you? Did he abuse you? And I'm like, so that the bar is buried in hell. Like, no, he didn't. I mean, why does it have to be this or that? Like, but things were good. No, it's death by a thousand unseen cuts. So no one doesn't un people don't understand that. They're like, Well, there's no visible bruises. It's the same thing if you think about like the chronically ill community. When you think about people who have autoimmune disorders and things like that, we judge some of those people. What do you mean you can't work? You look completely able-bodied. Why are you parking in a handicapped spot? You look completely fine. Why are you driving a sports car with a handicapped license plate? Not all illnesses are visible, just like not all abuse is visible.
SPEAKER_04Yes. Well, and and the one that is not visible is the one that stays with you the longest.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04It's the one that eventually slowly is a slow killer versus uh just like uh a terror, honestly, violence, right? I've seen it so many times and and to your point, I I wanna I wanna I wanna go back to that because it's so important. When someone has a healthy love and relationship and they are fulfilled in their relationship and they know that someone around them that they love are going through a divorce, they lean in. Yes. They don't treat it like a rash and get out. They actually lean in because they know, hey, I know that I am with my partner, loving partner, and every day is worse. Every day we're making it work. Yes. Um, so I think that that's something very powerful. I do want to bring something up because it came up on
Pre-Nup Taboos & Second Marriage Reality
SPEAKER_04the financial or with our financial coach Jessica on her on her podcast. She talks about post-nups and prenups. And I, you know, I don't know about you, but I'm assuming just like me, you married a dream, and I I did none of that sort. Because it's such a taboo. It's such a taboo. And I want to hear your thoughts. And my perspective is the chances of your marriage working out is 50-50. Whether it's hurtful to hear or not. There's a 50-50% chance. And also in any relationship, whether you're gonna marry or not, guess what are the chances of it working out? 50-50. It could either work out or it could not work out. So give me your thoughts on the pre-knop, postnop situation. Because post-nop to me is like a new boss word, to be honest.
SPEAKER_02Actually, if I'm gonna be honest, don't know much about post-nups, but I can talk to you about pre-nups.
SPEAKER_04Let's go there. Weigh in on that one.
SPEAKER_02Well, and I'm gonna I'm gonna research that because I want to know what that I want to know more.
SPEAKER_04Oh, once it comes out.
SPEAKER_02Yes. So, and and to be honest, the statistics for second marriages are actually lower than 50-50. So that is, you know. With each subsequent marriage, the percentage drops. I think it's like a 70-30 for um second marriages, especially with blended family, like like stepkids. So it's actually lower.
SPEAKER_04Let's go back to that because those that those say those are amazing data points that I knew nothing about. So, first marriage, what is what is the likelihood of staying married or getting a divorce?
SPEAKER_02I don't know the exact number of with your first marriage. I just know it's a higher probability of divorce. I think it's somewhere between 60 and 70 percent. I have it in my book, and it's it's the stats, the citations in the book, but it's between 60 and 70 percent for a second marriage, and it ticks up a little bit if there are children involved in a second marriage.
SPEAKER_04If there so you're saying on the second marriage, there's more likelihood of a divorce or less likelihood. More interesting.
SPEAKER_02More which most people think, well, I did it the first time around or the second time around, found out what I didn't like. So obviously the second time is gonna be better, not necessarily. And the reason for that, sometimes my theory, there's not a lot of science behind it. I don't really know exactly how you would test it. You would just have to ask and probably go on the the quantitative part where people or qualitative, where people kind of just said, This is my experience with it, but is because you're not fully healed before you jump into a second marriage. Yep. And it takes an extraordinarily strong foundation and a lot of work that a lot of people are not willing to do if you're not healed when you jump into a second marriage.
SPEAKER_04Oh my god, this is so real. And like, I'll tell you this me and my now husband both are divorced and join in this is our marriage now. We we did a lot. We we're we still we always have more work to do. But like, yes, especially me, because I'm a big fan of therapy, and therapy got me through my divorce. Shayna, my therapist that got me through four years, I couldn't have done it without her. But like, it takes so much work to do the healing that got you there in the first place. I absolutely agree with that.
SPEAKER_02And I mean, and honestly, if you're looking for healed to be your finish line, you're never gonna reach it. You should always be healing, it should always be a process. But, and if you want to know more about my backstory, buy my book and read it. But I jumped in, forcefully jumped it, was pushed into honestly. And my now husband knows that he's not gonna be offended that I said that, but I was more so forced into a relationship with him just because of the circumstances that were going on around both of us at the time. Thankful that the universe saw something I didn't, I couldn't live without this man now. But the amount of work that we have had to do separately and together, because neither one of us were healed from what we went through before we got into what we are now. And we have both had to do some really deep soul searching, really deep healing, some unconventional things that some marriages don't do, just to be able to keep the build going on the foundation. You know, yes, statistically, second marriages are more likely to fail. So, you know, you think you you live the dream, but you gotta put in the work to live the dream.
SPEAKER_04And I guess the reason for me why that was a surprise is because I did think I read some stats, and I'm not a divorce coach. Please nobody quote me. This is just a conversation. You can Google it, chat GPT it yourself. I think if you are not legally married, if you're just in partnership, the odds of breaking up are less when you're in partnership.
SPEAKER_02I have read that too.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. But again, there's no data on it because there's like you don't know when someone starts in partnership or leaves in partnership or or what does that look like.
SPEAKER_02I have heard that though, and but like you said, you don't have an in that sense, you don't have a divorce statistic to look at.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, so you don't really know. Either way, the lesson here is there's work, whether you're divorced, married together, in love. Uh and someone uh I had a client yesterday and and she said to me, she said, when you love them, the work is harder. Yes. And that that one's staying to me. I'm like, oof. And I'm like, I'm gonna quote that tomorrow at the podcast I'm gonna have with Courtney. That's what I said.
SPEAKER_02It's so good, and it's so very true. Because if if you if you don't truly embody them, love them, or if you've maybe even fallen out of love, maybe at one point you did, but now you no longer do, you're not putting in the work. So it doesn't seem like effort because you're not putting any in.
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SPEAKER_00And we're back. You're listening to Coffee and Coaching, where we blend real conversations with real growth. Let's jump in.
SPEAKER_04I have um I do have a question in terms of like take could continue this back to work because I think there's so much stigma. With divorce.
Knowing Your Workplace Culture & Utilizing Confidential EAPs
SPEAKER_04What is some of the things that you feel someone can do to show up at work giving what they're going through? Should they be vulnerable and share with their manager what's happening? Is that something that they should keep to themselves? I have my honest take on it, but I want to hear yours.
SPEAKER_02So I don't feel like that's a black or white answer, to be honest. I feel like you need to read the room, read the situation that you have. What is the culture at your company? Because in some situations, that can actually be bad to share with your manager because then they're going to look at it like you're distracted. You're not doing what you need to do. Maybe this is time for you to find something that fits differently. Especially just because we all know, and I'm sorry if anybody is listening is offended by this, but corporate America is about corporate America first. They're not about you, they're not about family. What is that saying? They're going to have you replaced before your obituary even hits the newspaper. So you kind of have to look at what your culture is. If your culture is not one like that, where they do, you know, really tout work-life balance and they're very, very supportive and your manager is very supportive, it is something that you should probably share. So then it's not, you don't care about your job, you're just drowning in something else. So that they know then how to help you. If you're, if your corporation has EAP, employee assistance, if they may, you know, could drive you that way, especially with divorce. If you're looking at financial issues now, loss of an income, something like that. A lot of times corporations have free services that you can tap into. So that may be something that you can ask about as well. Even if it is a culture that they don't support you, if they still have employee assistance, those things are traditionally supposed to be confidential. So you can still look into those to try to get yourself some free help just in the end term.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think this is a very interesting topic. And I think it just moves so differently for both men and women, but I do believe both struggle with the same thing. My coach hat will say, one of the many hats we wore, it's you should be at a place where you feel psychologically safe to be able to say that. Yes. I will also say in the same hat, um, I have decided to be vulnerable with two leaders, right? So, one, the third leader when I was going through my divorce, I was vulnerable with her, told her what was happening. She's one of my clients now at HRK trainings. Love her. Um, she she held it down for me. She understood. Yes. And I didn't know at the moment because she was so this like guarded and with closure that she had gone through it herself. But she never showed it, never told me about it. That was years ago because she's on her second marriage and thriving, and they've been together for many, many, many years. You will never know. And she did. And then when I was going through the custody, which we're gonna talk about divorce with children, that's a different freaking animal. Whole different beast, yeah. Different animal. During that I was being honest with a different manager, and it it went completely the other way. Same. It was very much like, yeah, I don't care. Uh, this deal needs to happen. And for me, what I was grateful for is that it opened my eyes to that company, which allowed me to leave and then join the beautiful tech world, which I absolutely love. But just two different leaders, both female, completely different reactions. Difference, one of them had gone through it, the other one didn't.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And I had something similar when I was in the separation phase of my divorce. The company that I was at was it the same thing. I they knew um it was a company in a small town, and everybody knows everybody, and they knew about it, and it was used against me in multiple ways. I have a few stories about that in my book and on Substack because it is something that I had to heal from because it was used against me in this job that I had been at for eight years was what I thought was well respected in my position, and it was used against me. Um, and then when I transitioned right after the divorce into a new company, it was much different. Much different. They were supportive, let us know what you need. Um, and then going through some of the custody battles and court hearings and things like that that my now husband and I have been through, same thing. Supportive, let us know what you need. So different companies are gonna show different cultures, but sometimes that I had a a friend in the past who told me at one point that I was like a weeble wobble, and I was like, I don't know what that is. She's like one of those dolls that you can like knock down and it's gonna come right back up in the exact same spot.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I like she kind of laughed about it and she said, It's really your your stubbornness, your tenacity. And it was like, I'm not really taking that as a compliment. I don't love that. Like, that looked terrible. Yeah, like I don't love that. But I really honestly I realized how true it was that I would get just so deeply rooted in something based on principle that you couldn't move me off a dead center until that happened at that job. And it was like that that supervisor literally like picked me up and like chucked me off of the table. And it caused me to move. And sometimes, even though the move is uncomfortable and you're getting chalked off the table, it's it's the best thing for you. So you're not constantly being knocked down and brought right back to the same spot. Because if you're doing that, you're not growing.
SPEAKER_04I can talk to you for three hours. And I know this is supposed to be like a 40 mana thing, but it's terrible because it's so true. And like what I do want to say to everyone listening to this episode today, if you forget everything we say, these are the conversations that I wish I would have listened to before I started a divorce process. The other thing I wish I would have known before starting a divorce process is that there's a
The Distinct Roles of Attorney, Therapist, and Divorce Coach
SPEAKER_04there's divorce coaches and there's lawyers. And we talked about this, Corney, because the professional woman that we are, we have to get educated as to what our rights, just like when if you're a man or a woman, please go investigate your rights. And it's a very different thing to go to a divorce coach versus a lawyer. And you know that I wish I had gone to a divorce coach. Can you help the listeners today know the difference between one and the other, what one can do and cannot do?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. So a divorce coach cannot represent you in court. So they're they're not gonna go to court, they're not gonna be a subpoenaed witness, they can't give you the legal, legal jargon for any of your filings or anything like that if you're choosing to go with a lawyer. Some divorce coaches are well versed in pro se, which means that you're representing yourself. Situation dependent, if it's a high conflict, I don't suggest going pro se, but if it's a little more amicable, then you can. But a divorce coach is gonna be someone who is going to deal with the emotions. So I used to have this diagram that was a triangle, and you had your lawyer and you had your divorce coach and you have your therapist. So your therapist is gonna work with the past. What from the past are you bringing forward with you? Your attorney is gonna go to court with you and they know the legal proceedings and things like that, how to talk to judges, how to file things. And then you have your divorce coach, which is gonna work on the present and the future with you. So, what does it look like right now, and how do we get our emotions? Because your attorney is charging you by the hour. They don't care about your emotions and they don't want to hear about your emotions. So I use this example. Yeah, they don't, they don't, they don't have time. Number one, most of them don't have time. Number two, the rest of them just don't care. So we we have multiple binders that we have have collected over the years for all of the different custody and court things we've been through. And the first one that I ever had, I took to the attorney's office and I had sticky notes. Now I'm type A personality, it was alphabetized, whole nine yards, but I had sticky notes in there. And he said, take the sticky notes out. They're your opinion, and I don't care about your opinion. And I was like appalled. I'm like, but my opinion, my relevance to this is important. Like what I'm adding to that, he goes like, no, that's emotions. I don't need to hear about any of that. And I was like, but you need to care about this as much as we do. They don't. They do not. Wow. So and another thing that if you're an attorney and you're listening to this, God love you, I'm not talking about all of them. I don't talk in absolutes. But there are attorneys out there. Billable hours, high conflict drives up billable hours. So the more conflict, the more money they're gonna make. They're they're gonna play on your emotions. They want you to be reactive and not responsive because the more reactive you are, the less you agree to, the more you're going back to court, the more money they make. So you need to get your emotions in in check and control, figuring out what you want, having clarity over the decisions that you're making, making sure you're putting yourself or your children first. And that is really where a divorce coach comes in. They help you kind of with the path forward that is the least traumatizing as it can be and help you work through those emotions.
SPEAKER_04I uh I just love this so much, and and I wish I had that. You know, I'm grateful for my therapist, like she held me down as much as she could. But the anxiety of the future was too grand. I have a new lawyer now, and she's amazing, a badass. Gratefully, I don't need it because we are um co-parenting as best as anyone could after our divorce. But during the moment, so it's really hard for me, even though people don't think I am, because I play a really cool in this podcast. I am highly emotional. I would wear my emotions on my sleeves. I am a wearing emotions on the sleeves person. And if I had anything to share about that experience, it's like the person that carried their emotions on the sleeves the most, the person that is the most honest about their feelings to the world, to the public, will never be able to not show up or present themselves as a logical person to a court follower to anything. So if you are with a much more calculated partner, whether it's a man or a woman, believe me, they will show up all like like a like a million bucks. So it's something that I always see, like with a lot of my clients that are highly emotional about the situation. I'm like, thanks to you and many others, like I'm like, you need a divorce coach. I know that we probably could talk forever, and I do want to bring something up because it's very important. How I met Courtney. I met Courtney at a writer's conference. So many of you know I'm a writer, but my hobby is also fiction writing. And I am just wandering around the fiction writing area, and then I see this beautifully decorated publisher, and Courtney's right there. And I just go in and talk to her. She tells me about her book, and I'm like, I'm definitely gonna read this book. And sparks flew through the air. We talk about our lives, how much we have in common. I have to say this our her son's name and my daughter's name is the same, Blake. She is like when she told me, I'm like, what is happening right now? And my my daughter's stepmom now, her name is Corney too. So I'm like, and she's a very sweet, gentle human. Very grateful for her. And like, so I like it's just we have so much in common. Plus, we're both writers, which I think it's like incredible that we have that in common. And I want you to talk about your new venture. I want you to talk about your publishing business because, above all, people that are listening to this that have gone through a divorce, have gone through a custody battle with children, and we will have a co-parenting coach that we would talk, would talk with in this season. I want you to get from this that it will pass. If you are, if you just get the help that you need, go through this. And and the hardest part is like there's no other way out, but better. That's the angle way out of this. And Corney's an example of how you can make it through and look as gallantly as you do and graceful, and on top of that, have an amazing publishing business. So talk to me about ever after publishing because I think it's remarkable.
SPEAKER_02So my company was actually born from divorce coaching, honestly. Wow. Yeah.
Deactivating Safety Freezes with Nervous System-First Writing
SPEAKER_02So ever after, the name, it is indicative of happily ever after, but it's not a fairy tale. It is your ever after is waiting for you, whatever that looks like. Security, safety, a house, a new marriage, a divorce, whatever it looks like. Your ever after is waiting for you, but you have to own it. And through my process of my own divorce, my husband's custody battle, his court battle, everything else, I nearly lost myself. I nearly did not survive any of it. And in that, I said the same thing as you, as many other people do. I wish I would have had a divorce coach because what I got out of my attorney was just a lot of debt. That was it. So I started researching it. I didn't want to become an attorney. I already have a doctorate degree to pay for, didn't want to pay to become an attorney. Um, and I stumbled into divorce coaching. I loved it. I still do. I'm the unofficial, official divorce coach for life, probably just because I love it. But being a divorce coach for a few years, I really started to see that my passion is the ever after. It's not the paperwork, what goes on through it, the emotions through it, because a lot of times you don't have a lot of control in those moments if you are in family court. I wanted to do more with the rebuild, what happens after the divorce. And I started noticing through my own writing journey, I've written since I was little. I've journaled, I've written letters, I love it. I writing my book is the only thing that saved me. I had been through therapy, Reiki therapy, medications, shaman. I was diagnosed with three autoimmune disorders. I barely survived. My book is what brought me back to life. And that's when I started realizing that if you put pen to paper in the right way, you can really untangle those knots and you can really start to find your way towards your ever after through the writing process. You can start your healing journey. So that's where I said, you know what? I want to write more, I want to publish more, I want to help people do that, but there's a huge disconnect in the publishing world. There is no trauma-informed nervous system approach publishing. It's just write, write, write, publish your book, edit it a thousand times, lose your rights and royalties. And I was like, that is not how you write stories like ours. You have to write these with your nervous system because you don't have writer's block. Your nervous system is stopping you from writing because it doesn't feel safe. Yeah. So you need to be able to go through a series of things to make yourself feel safe. And then you can get that book out into the world and you can heal and you can be a lighthouse for other people. And so I decided to create a nervous system first publishing approach. So it's coaching, whether it's divorce coaching, co-parenting coaching. I'm also trauma-informed certified. And then, of course, with my nursing background with mental health, I have some certifications there to go through the nervous system, deactivating that fight or flight, making the safe space so you can put your story out there and you can heal through the process. So that's where my press came from. I love it. I am so excited.
SPEAKER_04I cannot wait to hear more about it. And we will put all of the links and information to everyone and anything that you might need from Courtney. She's incredible, an incredible speaker, incredible writer, and an amazing friend that I'm so lucky we met during this writer's conference. You made me cry. Yeah, it's true. And like how the universe works is like me and Jessica were looking for a divorce coach. We could not find someone that we felt that connection with. I'm in this writer's conference, and I walked into Courtney's booths. It was an incredible experience, and I'm so grateful for it. We're going to wrap up. I want you to tell the audience if they're going through a divorce, I would be one of the biggest advice you will give them so they can keep it together as much as they can. Yes.
Rebuilding Somatic Safety Through Small Meaningful Routines
SPEAKER_02Create safety within yourself first. Start there. And I had a nursing instructor one time who used to use the saying one bite at a time about an elephant. I don't know about y'all, but I'm not eating an elephant. So I changed it to one wave at a time so you don't drown. So start with small, meaningful routines, going to bed at a certain time, writing, because we all know I'm going to give you that as advice. Work. Journaling, meditation, whatever works for you, and set a routine so you can start to build safety. That's going to be the first.
SPEAKER_04Love it. Uh, for me, my fiction writing is like my safe place mentally. So that's why where I go. I do writing, but it's fiction because I'm like, I want to escape this world, take me somewhere else. Yes. Brain, you know, especially during those moments. And then I also learn a lot about learning about the nervous system going through gallop coaching was a thing that saved me because I started understanding that my emotions come from my brain. And I can control them. And since then, I can tell you there is pretty much very few things that can get me out of my shell. When they do, it has to be like a lot of uptaking because, like, very few things don't get me out of my shell thanks to that research. So find your thing, there is help. Um, and I would do want to leave with you should feel psychologically safe to tell your employer or your manager what you're going through. But more times out of that would like to count, sometimes there's a lot of stigma that comes through it, and a lot of people are not as ready and as prepared to do it. I will say if you're not in a position, especially because you're going through a divorce, where you can just pick up and leave and find a new job, because stability is the name is the name of the game. And the more stable you are in your job, in the household that you're in and in the house that you're in, because that was huge for me. Don't leave the house where your kids are being raised. It's important for you to, you know, stay, stay the course, but also you can still be vulnerable and protect what you share. Protect what's yours, especially something as sensitive as that. And be careful who your work friends are and how much you share with them about what's going on, because a lot of it might end up backfiring on you.
SPEAKER_02Be careful who any of your friends are through this process. You will get flooded with other people's opinions and all the things they want to share and tell you. Be careful who everybody is around you. That's gonna be part of that building that safety within yourself first. Don't look for it at work with your coworkers, with your friends. Look for it here first.
SPEAKER_04Yes, I will say I have regretted uh sometimes some of the things that happened because of the divorce. I have not regret the ever after. So uh it's not a fairy tale, but who probably you are today and who I am today is greatly because of the hardship and the things we can take on now with the world is probably even greater because of it. This Courtney wouldn't have existed without that story. Yeah. I know both of our kids see us as badasses because of it. Like, I know my daughter is like, my mom is strong. My mom, she's strong. Like that perspective came because she knows there's there's a shell that was grew through it that also chines through vulnerability. So I know your story. I really encourage people to read your story because it's incredible. Um, and it's an amazing book. So thank you for putting it out there.
SPEAKER_03For everyone tuning in to this topic, I hope you walk away realizing that you're not distracted at work, that you are not just letting your personal life take over. Your nervous system is in activated survival mode. Remember some of the critical things Corey said here today. Some of her biggest takeaways is that you must recognize the difference between having a lawyer and a coach and God, how I wish you would have known that. Your lawyer is there for legal proceedings and billable hours, not to help you navigate through your emotions and your actions. It is so important because your emotions and your actions can dictate some of the outcomes of what happens after the divorce. Not every company culture is psychologically safe. And if you're in a place in your life where psychological safety is not there at home, and now you're at work and it's not psychologically safe, this is where you need to start making some decisions for you and for your well-being. Finally, let the grieve grieve. Sometimes we're trying to rush to a process and to make it work and to push through. And believe me, from personal experience, at the far end of it, you end up hurting yourself more physically, mentally, and emotionally, and it can have some long-term effects that you did not expect. Cordy, thank you for being such an amazing guest today. And you all, thank you for listening. I am so happy that I got to share this experience with all of you. Protect your peace, build your internal system for safety, and we will see you on the next episode of Coffee and Coaching. Thank you guys. Take care.
