Building Disco Fizz for the LGBTQ+ & Beyond with Ben Zumsteg

Ben Zumsteg is the founder and CEO of Disco Fizz, a sparkling functional non-alcoholic beverage built for the dance floor. A first-time CPG founder with 15 years of brand strategy experience behind him - working with clients like L'Oreal, Ralph Lauren and Four Seasons - Ben stopped drinking on New Year's Day 2023 and spotted a gap nobody was filling: the LGBTQ+ community had nowhere to turn in its own spaces when it came to non-alc options worth actually ordering.

In this episode, Ben walks through how he commissioned original quantitative research on LGBTQ+ drinking habits (the only study of its kind), how that data pointed him toward moderate-caffeine functional energy rather than a mocktail and why he named the brand Disco Fizz on purpose - "inherently queer, never exclusively". 

Nate and Ben also dig into brand distinctiveness, the "slap a rainbow on it and leave after Pride" problem, tiered caffeine formulation strategy, the premium packaging decision to go matte black with bare aluminum and why being for someone means you have to be okay with repelling someone else.

Ben is pitching at BevNet Live and recently landed a spot in Paris Hilton's Pride Shopping Guide. Disco Fizz is currently rolling out on premise in New York City with DTC and retail to follow later in 2026.

Find Disco Fizz: discofizz.com | Instagram: @drinkdiscofizz

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

I'm uh Ben Zumsteg. I am the founder and I guess the CEO as well of DiscoFizz.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Perfect. Well, talk to me a little bit about what DiscoFizz is and kind of where you guys are located, how you guys get to market with consumers.

SPEAKER_04 0:13

Yeah. So uh DiscoFizz is a sparkling non-uh alcoholic functional drink that has uh energy from green tea caffeine, sea salt electrolytes, and flavors from juices and extracts, no artificial sweeteners. Um we say that we're designed for the dance floor, so I can get into how we uh how we arrived at that and where we're rolling out. But we're based in New York and we launched six months ago, and we're rolling out primarily on premise first. Um, you can guess based on the the little positioning statement I gave you, but um we'll be rolling out in DTC and retail locations later this year. Um, but starting kind of building with the community in uh in uh in on premise.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

And then did I see on your store map a little bit in California as well?

SPEAKER_04 1:06

Uh we have, yeah, we we got a couple couple just like organic um opportunities in San Francisco and LA. LA is actually our first retail placement in Burden of Proof, the non-alk shop down there, um, which gives us a little bit of a chance to see how it moves and what moves uh at retail. And we're getting some, we've been, they've been great partners to us. So we're learning a little bit about how things are working in a retail setting versus on a shelf.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

That's a whole different world. So I'm glad you're I'm glad you I'm glad the way you framed that where you said you're learning because that's that's the whole thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:38

Everything is a learning experience right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Exactly. Yeah. So speaking of that, kind of lead me into your life and how was entrepreneurship always a part of your life, or is this a new venture as far as uh breaking out on your own and creating something from scratch?

SPEAKER_04 1:50

I am a first-time founder. Uh I never worked in CPG before, so this is all new. So it's all a learning experience, as I said. But um my background is in brand strategy. I've been a brand strategist on the advertising agency side for 15 years. Um and throughout my career, I've, you know, I've run the gamut of different types of companies, brands, sectors, sizes. So anything from Walmart for a few years to Lab Corp to Ralph Lauren to uh, you know, um four seasons hotels. It's really, it's really all over the place. But um over the past couple of years, I have focused in on luxury and premium brands. Um, just because I find it intellectually interesting and it's where brand really does matter a lot um to command price premiums and all of those things. Um, so in that in that role, I've worked on a lot of beauty with like L'Oreal Lux brands, again, Ralph Lauren, um, and uh, you know, uh also like jewelry, etc. So um, you know, I've I really enjoy being a brand strategist. I find it intellectually very interesting and it's kind of blends, you know, business and creativity um because you're dealing with the creative output as well. Um, but my journey to disco fizz began when I stopped drinking three years ago.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Oh man, we're we're right around I'm December 2022, man.

SPEAKER_04 3:25

Oh, nice. I was January 23. So uh so well technically, yeah, like New Year's, New Year's Day 23.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Don't worry, don't worry. I call it a journey. I don't care how many days you're good.

SPEAKER_04 3:36

Um that was after about a year of like pauses and experimenting with not drinking, and then um just decided what I took a year, and then you know, after that I was like, I'm good. Um and as I'm I'm I'm gay and as part of the LGBT community, um, I still like to be in our spaces, bars, clubs, all you know, all those things are very important to our community. Um and I noticed very quickly that all of this like non-ALC stuff that was happening in the world outside of our community wasn't really making its way to our spaces. And I was kind of curious about that, um, you know, and getting really sick of ordering like, you know, club soda and cranberry or, you know, what or Diet Coke or whatever. And certainly like hate Red Bull, all of that stuff. Um, and that was really what we had. That's really most bars, what they offer. Um and um then in parallel as a brand strategist, I I found the emergence of the non-out category very interesting. Um, because it faces some of the same challenges that other like alternative categories face. Um, I worked on EVs for a while when I when I worked on Cadillac. Um EVs are similar. Um I think like plant milks are similar, like these things that are replacing the default in our lives. Um, and I was noticing non-alc making some of the same choices that those categories made early on. Um, and even just even not just EVs, but sustainable products in general, which is like starting with the it's better for you argument, or it's better for the world argument. And as someone who had quit already, I was getting tons of like dry January, and then beyond that, just like tons of digital social, whatever advertising that was saying, like telling me I sh I will feel better if I drink this thing. You know, you'll have a better morning, you'll get the booze, the the buzz without the booze, you'll blah blah blah blah blah. And I was like, I've already made the decision, dude. I don't, you don't, you don't need to tell me that. And it felt very moralizing. And I think that that the other these other categories have run into that, where like, you know, the Prius was this like very worthy car and was popular because it was, you know, a good car. But it wasn't until, you know, the high-end sports cars, Tesla, Porsche, all of these brands started to say, actually, uh electric cars can be really sexy and fast and premium, that uh it became something worth paying attention to, right? Going after the like driving enthusiast because it has instant torque and better balance, you know, better like weight balance and all of that stuff, right? Um and then I think plant milks like Oatley also got that right too, where they just kind of like leaned into being this kind of like we think this industry is kind of bullshit and just going after it, right? And having fun with it versus like, oh, this is so much better for you, you'll feel you know, like all that stuff. And so I think that a lot of the early uh entrants who needed to do this because they needed to create the category, not blaming them, but really relied on like replace that your alcohol with this, right? And I just think that as uh drink choice, like like drinking preferences have changed. I mean, that's certainly the the the culture that has moved, at least in the US. Um I just don't I I don't know how much more you can do that, right? You have to sell them on what you're about. Because you know, as someone who is experimenting with those drinks, some of them don't taste great, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Like um I'm on the I'm on the record on this show jokingly blaming my delayed sobriety because non-alcoholic product didn't taste well until a couple years ago when I got sober finally. Like I say it jokingly and I mean it. Yeah, yeah, because I needed and admittedly because I needed the crunch, I needed the bridge, like I wasn't able to do it cold turkey and with nothing.

SPEAKER_04 7:52

Yeah, and I and I just but I was never really drawn to like the spirit, the non-alk spirits. I'm not a beer drinker anyway, so I didn't really love the non-alk beers. And then, you know, as I talked to other friends who are sober and just saw the conversation about non-alk evolve, like there's there's there's also the like price premium issue, which is yes, there are actually some products that justify a price premium because they're de-alcoholizing, so they maintain you know, I get all of that. But I think especially in like functional non-alk, non-alk cocktails, RTDs, there is this like it's just expensive juice problem. And so then again, as a luxury strategist, I was like, that's really interesting because how do you create a price premium perception with a product that you know doesn't have the same function that people are used to? So all of this stuff was brewing in my mind. Um, I was just intellectually curious about it. I was experiencing it, I was experiencing a dearth of it in the places that I spend a lot of time in. And one day in April of 2024, it just went like, just why don't you just do it? Um, and uh the name was there from the beginning. Like I was like, why don't I just create one for the LGBT community and call it DiscoFizz? And um I had that idea, having no idea how to do it, like no idea what it meant to create a beverage brand, no idea where to go to get it made, not not even really an idea of what the product should be. I just had a brand name and a market, which is not a bad place to start in hindsight. Um so coming off of that, I um did what I know to do as a brand strategist. I did research. I was like, is this a viable opportunity? Is there a need? So I worked with a former colleague of mine who specializes in um quantitative research. And we commissioned a study and we bought a sample of LGBT identifying folks, nationally representative, um, and asked them a whole bunch of questions about their drinking habits, um, what they like to drink when they're not drinking, what they remember buying when they're not drinking, um, regardless of whether they identify as sober or not. Um and I just because the research doesn't exist. Um, there's lots of population studies or general or like, you know, demographic, like men versus women or Gen Z versus boomers or whatever, you know, stats about drinking and not drinking and what they want. But there is nothing about our community. And um if there is, it's about addiction, not the other side of it, um, which is an issue, of course. It's well studied for a reason, but there was nothing about the other side of it or nothing about offering people an alternative. So uh as far as I know, this is the only research about it that exists.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

I've been in this industry 22 years, and other there's never been, and honestly, I've I'm gonna say this because I say this a lot in meetings, and people have heard me. Slapping a rainbow on something is not the way to get a product to that market. And that's all we've ever done is we as an industry have thrown things, made it pink, made it teal, and slapped a slapped a occasionally uh for a four to six week or a 45-day cycle, we'll put a rainbow on it and donate to a cause.

SPEAKER_04 11:23

And I appreciate you bringing that up, and we can talk about how like where the brand became what it is, is you're finding a passion point for me to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

Like, yeah, like I'm I'm an I'm an ally and a full passionate opportunity.

SPEAKER_04 11:36

I appreciate that. And uh happy pride. Um but uh we do it to ourselves too, unfortunately. And I can talk about why I stayed with Disco Fizz because I I really didn't, if I was gonna do something, I didn't want to slap a rainbow logo on it and say it's just for us, right? So we can get into that. But um so that we did this research, and what came out the other end were frankly a bunch of different opportunities, but the one that was most interesting to start with, um, and this is where I started working with a formulator, um, Leyline Labs. I was introduced to them very kindly by the folks at Dry Atlas, um, was this discrepancy between buying a lot of energy or caffeinated drinks, but craving refreshment. So we asked the question in two different ways like, what do you remember buying? What do you prioritize? And those two things were different. And that indicates to me an unmet need, which is people want when they're in social spaces like bars, clubs, in-home parties, uh, you know, whatever, that they want a little boost. And often caffeine or some form of energy is the inebrient if you're not drinking, or it enhances the inebriation of drinking. Not not recommending that, uh just saying that that's what happens. People drink red bull vodkas for a reason. Um so caffeine is just a thing that people turn to. They understand they know there's a there's a guaranteed result, as opposed to all these other functionals that people don't quite know what really happens and all that stuff. Um, and then um, but refreshment being the number one priority to me, to us, indicated that people want more refreshing taste, flavor, etc., from something that gives them energy. And that started to become a little bit of like, huh, that's interesting. Um, and the the analog that the team that I worked with brought me was um, even though it's a very, very specific taste, was um Club Mate in Germany, how that energizing beverage with a very distinct taste profile became uh basically the go-to drink of like ravers and hackers in in in like 90s and 2000s Berlin, right? Um, and still is like still is quite a hallmark of that community. And I found that really interesting. Like I just found that, like, oh, like I didn't set out to make an energy drink for sure. Um, and even when I saw the results, I was like, am I making an energy drink? Oh and that's where you as you have to kind of get out of the way of the data and be like, okay, I guess. Um, but what became interesting as we started to work on it was not just that, but also there was in the data concern about caffeine consumption. Um and so then it pointed to, well, let's not make a Celsius or a monster level, let's actually make it more moderate. Because people don't need the same amount of caffeine that they're using for a pre-workout when they're just going out for the night or little need a little boost, you know, a couple hours before they go to bed, right? Um, and I see this when I sample with people, they're like, oh my God, energy. I'm like, don't worry, it's not that much. It's just a little. Um, so the other thing that we did when we formulated was we have created a tiered caffeine system and it's all quite moderate. So we have right now we have 30 milligrams and 90 milligrams as our two levels. We'll have one that slots in the middle, uh, 60. So 30 is pegged to diet sodas, diet colas, like a diet coke, coke zero is around 30. And 90 is pegged to the the tiny red bull. Um so 90 is where we'll max out, and that is still half of a Celsius, less, less than half of a Celsius. So we're also kind of capturing this, you know, we saw Liquid Death come out with 100. Like we're kind of on that road of like people still like caffeine, just not that much caffeine, right? Um, and we're seeing that perform well. I think people like that. So uh more moderate caffeine, caffeine choice was our other kind of thing that we brought to it. And then all the flavors was just like we wanted to develop. I mean, this team that I worked with are non-alk drinkers and developers. They worked on, they worked on Gia in their former lives. They've developed some great non-alk spirits and and other drinks. And so they they developed it like a non-alk, premium non-alk. So it tastes like that. Um, and I also gave them a limit of 20 calories. Um, because I was like, not this community. They're used to sugar-free Red Bulls and vodka sodas. We are not we are not going highly caloric. Um, and so 20 calories in an 8.4 ounce is pretty low, and we kept it to four grams of sugar. We didn't do an artificial sweetener. So the taste profile is also significantly different from a typical energy drink, which is overly sweet and artificial, and also from a lot of premium non-out cocktails, which are very sugary um and very sweet for a reason. Um, some of them have upwards of 30 grams and an 8.4 ounce, which is pure sugar. So um, which, you know, they taste great. It's just not not they they're not making their way into those spaces for a reason.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Well, it's also one of the things, too, when you get into the functional and then you get into like what we work with with the hemp beverages, the transparency that exists and not out. Like, whereas the transparency does not exist, like I tell the I tell the story every once in a while. My friends, like, like I put on a so much weight when I worked in the craft beer industry because none of us knew the the cal of the caloric intake. So we would go out and we'd be drinking six, eight, ten beers in an you know, and I you don't realize like you're you're liquid, you're drinking your entire day and more with an before you even ate a free C thin at the bar.

SPEAKER_04 17:44

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think even our our knowledge of what calories are in alcohol to begin with, not just how it's formulated or what type of drink it is. So, um, but you know, also in hindsight, it was good that we did that because people are also mixing them now. So it's a low calorie mixer, great. Um, so yeah, I mean, we just this just started to develop and it kind of emerged as we played with the flavors. Um and um yeah, I mean, then I just kind of we just moved into commercializing it. Like it was just like, let's just see if it if this works. Um then, you know, um to your comment about the slapping a rainbow logo thing on it. Um I was glad that the initial kind of lightning bolt idea was disco fizz, because instantly that took it away from, and again, no not criticizing these brands, but it took it away from gay water, gay beer, the the kind of this is only for us. Um, which is great. We need that stuff because, like you said, lots of lots of places, lots of brands just were kind of like doing it for pride and going away. But I could see that that would limit your TAM. Um, and I get that question too, still, but um, I wanted something that intentionally felt like inherently queer, but not exclusively. And what better way to demonstrate that than through disco, right? Which is like started underground, started, started queer, became what it is, right? Everyone loves it. Um, so the way that we approached developing the brand was very much with that in mind. Um, you know, um, I mean, you know, there's nothing, I mean, it's colorful, but there's nothing, you know, like, oh, here's a rainbow flag or here's, you know, cliches of what people think the queer community is. Um, but it feels fun. It feels like nightlife.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

It feels I love the eight and a half ounces too. Like, I'm uh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:56

And you know, we developed 8.4 from the beginning. 8.4, sorry. Yeah, we developed 8.4 from the beginning. Um, people really like this holding this size. It's easy to hold.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

Um like Andre the Giant when he was a drink. I'm 6'3, 250, so it's gonna go far like we'll make a 16 for you.

SPEAKER_04 20:17

Um the big the big boy five says um but yeah, and then the you know, um, this was like the first real test of the brand, actually, because we had to make it, you know, as you know, the lead times are crazy, so we have to finalize the brand just as we were finalizing the identity. Um and it turned out really well. I mean, we're we we found a great can printer, so we have this like cool matte finish on it.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

And it's nice. I can see that. That's that's a really good addition, then that's a premium call right there.

SPEAKER_04 20:48

Yeah, it feels nice to hold, and then you know the aluminum coming through.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

So it's and you go all the way to the rim too, nice.

SPEAKER_04 20:54

All the way as much as we can.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Yeah, yep, yeah, yeah. Yep, um, and texture on it as well.

SPEAKER_04 21:01

Yeah, I mean the mat gives it a bit of a texture, and then the mat combined with like the bare aluminum gives it a bit of a tact.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

Oh, you want bare aluminum, nice. I love when that's done, yes.

SPEAKER_04 21:11

Yeah, so all everything other than the UPC um is all negative space, negative space, punched out. I love it. Um, and uh yeah, so this, you know, it's that was a great proof of concept of the brand. And like the it's one of the things that, you know, when I sample or show it to people that are like, oh, that can looks great. And it feels like it belongs in the place where we intended it to belong. And even at our at our friends at Burden of Proof in LA, like it's on a shelf and it's like you know, colorful, colorful, colorful, colorful, and blitz. Like it's just like it's like black and shiny with a little bit of color, and it's it it works nicely.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

People, people don't it's underutilized as like you did it perfectly by bending but lightning the black and the color. And I also want to say like that negative space is an underutilized opportunity. Not only does it serve a more premium glare, but when you're at people don't think through when you're at retail and you're at the point of purchase with proper lighting, it shines and shimmers better and it's cost effective. It's not an extra color in your print. One of the things I think too, I'm I'm excited about what you did was a lot of people went the white route where they went Uber color. And not many people went the black route. So I'm I was really excited when I told your when I saw your booking and I pulled up your products and stuff like that. I was like, this is cool. Like this is a really cool way to go about it. I like I love when people obviously my business is called Free Mind. I started in 2008. I'm a non-conformist person and I'm a very inclusive person. I love when people zig when everybody else is zig.

SPEAKER_04 22:43

Yeah, I mean, I yeah, I'm glad you noticed that. Um, you know, there are there I've noticed a few other like black, I mean, you know, like um like Q mixers plays a black a little bit. Um, I mean Liquid Death has it to a degree. Um, and I've noticed a couple other brands that that move they did it after they won the the White Ward. Yeah, yeah. Um yeah, I mean I I I definitely as we develop the brand, a lot of this a lot of the space, probably because they're dealing in like functionals like you know, Ashwagandha Mindsmade go to this dreamy, colorful, gradient world, which again is like great for that need if you want, you know, to be like chilling out on your couch, disassotiate disassociating with Netflix or something. Um, but doesn't really fit in when you're like, you know, under a disco bell.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

And that's and that's the other thing is it's like when I say when I say my criticisms of other things, I want the audience to also understand whether you're listening or watching, I'm not disparaging, and nor are you disparaging those brands. What it is is it's uh it's go back to what I just said about FreeMind. It every everything needs to be represented. And just like uh just like go back to the rainbow. Every rainbow is a different color, everything needs to be represented because if everybody comes out with Grateful Dead and tie-dye and and and and uh hippie culture, then that's what the category becomes. Yes, it's necessary for every color to be represented and every design to be represented to create a category.

SPEAKER_04 24:12

Yep, yep, 100%. I mean, as a brand strategist, you know, when you said zig when other zag, like I work I like in my job, I I I work for an advertising holding company, but I work with BBH, which is the the agency that whose founders coined that term. Yep. Um brand distinctiveness.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

And I did not know that when I dropped that podcast. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:34

Maybe they've maybe they made it their thing, but but you know, they have this whole thing about the black sheep and you know, whatever. So yeah. Um purple cow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So but brand distinctiveness is a thing, you know. Uh uh every brand in super crowded categories has to aim for it and they have to find um a way to be different, um, not just in their product, but in their in the way that they show up in the world. I mean, as a brand strategist, that's what I always advise clients to do. Um, and also to like not just be different for the sake of it, but be different in a way that signals to people what you are about.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:18

And often that means borrowing the language, the codes, the whatever of a different world, a different category, and bringing it to yours. And that's that's kind of what I felt like we could do with Disco Fizz, is like this is this non-alc functional world that's often about stress relief and whatever. And then we're between that and this energy world that's very aggro, either aggro bro gym stuff, or like, you know, the emerging world of like uh like Gorgie Benny, the like Pilates princess version of it. And again, I I I say this, like you said, I'm not disparaging that, but like this. We're brand guys, we're that's how things are labeled. You have to have a bit of an oppositional view when you're developing your brand and say, like, I am not gonna be that. And so, like, I didn't want to be that in energy, and I didn't want to be the dreamy, like chill out, um, you know, or like high craft world of premium mocktails. So nightlife and you know, um, the energy and the color of nightlife felt like the right thing to bring forward, and not the cliches of disco either, not like 70s chints and bell bottoms and whatever, but more like the spirit of the disco, whatever that is.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

I think I think that's the best thing about it is you're talking about the spirit of disco, which is inclusivity. I think the spirit of disco is you go, and that's one of the things that that that brought me when I worked in Philadelphia when I was 20 years old. I can recall the first time that I got a sales route, and I had uh on South Street in Philadelphia, I had a gay club as my account, and then I have Woody's in Philadelphia, which is one of the at one point was the highest consumption of hard liquor in the entire city of Philadelphia was one bar. And and when I had those two places at an early age, I really I got exposed to that culture. And what I learned quickly was you walk three doors down to Jim's Tavern and you walk in, and every guy turns around and looks at you, everybody wants to know why you're here and all this other stuff. And then you go to the other ones, and it's the most fun party in the world. You you walk in and people immediately obviously people come up and they're like, Oh, I got a new bear, and then they talk to me and they realize that I'm an ally, and then that then becomes this whole funny thing where they're like, Well, why are you here? And I'm like, Why wouldn't I be here? You guys are having a blast. And that was the initial part for me, where breaking down those barriers and realizing, like, just because it's a gay club doesn't mean it's only for gay people. No, and now I'm not saying that you guys want to have 50,000 people and want to be over-indexed and taken over. No, that's not what I'm suggesting. Yeah, but what I am suggesting is that it's amazing what you're doing with a product and doing the reverse, where you're gonna create a product for the community, but allow every you're doing exactly the representation of what you said, the culture. The culture is the door's not locked just because you're not gay.

SPEAKER_04 28:11

Yeah. Oh, yeah, 100%. Um, I mean, and again, to the TAM argument. I mean, so, and this is something that I have gotten a question of, I mean, uh philosophically, I believe that very strongly. Like, I think if you create something in spaces for spaces like the spaces that we're going into primarily, that it will it will model the right occasion. Like, this is just a drink for any time I want to have fun. Okay. Exactly. Um, but you know, from a TAM perspective, and I'm even thinking about this because I'm pitching at BevNet next week. Um, congrats, man. Nice. Um, but I get I've gotten this question from like, you know, you know, investors that I've talked to and stuff like that. Um, is you know, well, what's the TAM of the queer community is pretty limited. And I go, well, um, I don't think of it as the TAM. Um, but you know, starting with a community that is 30 million people with $1.4 trillion in spending power is not a bad place to start as like a serviceable, addressable market. Like that's even if that's our SAM, that's not a bad place to start.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Um and then from a strictly economic standpoint, there's more disposable income in that category than there is in the other one.

SPEAKER_04 29:29

100%. Yeah, yeah. So and then, you know, then you know, uh, again, we formulated the product the way it is because it straddles NA, which is growing, and energy, which continues to grow. Um, and it can and it can shape shift depending on where it sits and where you encounter it. Um so uh yeah, I I believe very strongly, both from a philosophical perspective about being the brand owner and what it represents, that it it can and will, though we're being very narrow about it right now, like exclusively sponsoring LGBT events and all that stuff to get it in with the community and get them behind it, get our advocates. But, you know, we're saying yes to things that aren't queer. Like we're doing an event this week, weekend with Bright Knight Social, who, you know, built a lot of new, you know, um sober partying in New York. And that's that's just a McCarran Parkhouse. It's like anyone is welcome. So it's like great, super.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Um, but you have to build your ripple somewhere, and I it's the same thing as any other brand in the macro market. You you have to start with your home base.

unknown 30:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

And if you're if your community isn't gonna isn't gonna grab it, then that's your biggest research indicator that the greater community is not gonna grab it, you know, or it's the reverse.

SPEAKER_04 30:45

Yeah, you have to be for someone, otherwise you're for no one.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Uh and I want to also say that I I in today's world, especially in 2026, having a product with a principle is what I believe firmly is gonna be the success. And having a brand that has a face behind it and you doing things like this, that's the difference. I mean I really mean it. And I also I'll take this, I'll leave this in or put it off whatever you want. But between now and BevNet, if you need anything to prep for those, I've been through many of those, not presenting, but on the audience side as well as the judging side on other versions of it. Between now and then, if you want to run a pitch through or anything like that, I'm I I would gladly clear my calendar and and and help you rehearse or anything like that as well.

SPEAKER_04 31:28

I'll probably take you up on that because I need to.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

I mean it. I mean it because it's because it's I've seen though, I've watched a lot of them. I used to know those guys. I started out in the industry with the media stuff at the same time. So those devnet guys and I started FreeMine the same exact year, and we ran the conference rooms floors together, traded interviews with each other and just swapped mics, you know.

SPEAKER_04 31:46

So it's it's exciting. I think I think we have a good story. Um I think you know what I've noticed, and again, this is a bit of a tangent, but what I've noticed from a lot of the winners is that they have a very clear idea of who they're for. Yes. Um, that matters more than the scale they've achieved or anything like that. And we are quite small. Um, so you know, I I feel confident that we have and we have like actual insight about the target.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Uh the first person to come on here that's talked about the research they did prior, rather than I really made something cool and my friends I really enjoy it. So we scaled it to something.

SPEAKER_04 32:22

Yeah, no, that's by the house. Yeah, no. The first one that led with research.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

Um, yeah, it's it it was just kind of I I frankly, because I'm bootstrapped, I was like, I don't want to waste my money if no one's I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna tell you something funny that I'm currently doing is I'm currently doing statewide in Pennsylvania our uh surveying of every retailer about non-alk, alc and functional, or not within non-alk and hemp. And I'm not doing anything, and this is nothing against chains and grocery stores and convenience stores, but I'm I'm only doing independent operators because from a data standpoint, that is the most underserved data point. What people don't realize is the data we use, you and I use to make our decisions about extensions and package sizes, we're using data from corporate point of sale systems, we're not using data from independent delis, corner, bodegas, liquor stores. And that is the difference in when you were trying to figure out when you're a small brand and you're six months in, you're five years in, and you're not scaled yet, people aren't realizing that the grocery store and the convenience store only carries about a small percentage of the actual skews. And out of those percentages of skews, they're grabbing the most, the largest skews that'll turn the most velocity. They don't take a lot of chances. And so you don't have real data to work off of from that standpoint. So we actually just started this week. Our remote team is doing 1200 calls a week for the next couple weeks, and the goal is to have 2,000 retailer surveys completed by the end of the summer, to where we'll have an entire state of Pennsylvania with a snapshot of who's carrying this stuff, what brands they're carrying, what price points they're at, and then what their velocities are, and as well as if they're open to expansion of other categories and all that stuff. Because I think just for like you said, I've been doing this for 18 years, but I am not a millionaire. I've been broke and almost bankrupt multiple times. And I've been I've I'm very much on the record of I've been homeless before, I've lived in motels and everything just to get this going. Yeah, and that's where and to keep this alive. And so my place is from a place of resilience. So I want you to know that's why I feel the way about principle. I'm speaking from the heart, I'm speaking from my experience, is that I've been in this for 18 years as a solopreneur, and I'm I also understand scale. And I'm one man that brings contractors in that I trust when I need to scale a project, but I don't have any employees. I don't even have, I don't even have an office. Like right now, I'm in a bedroom, and I just and and and that's that's my office. And that's and exactly, and that's what that's the thing about this show, the authenticity. And I joke around, but it's serious. It's the realest thing on the internet because we can all put these percentages or per perspectives up, and we can go get stock photos with a photographer, and we can look like we're wearing a suit and all this stuff. But at the end of the day, let's be what we are. We work in our bedroom, we work over here, and the world needs to see that there's people that are just regular people trying to do big things.

SPEAKER_03 35:08

Yeah, yeah, it's hard work. It's I and that's that's it.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

I didn't anticipate how much work it would be, but it's it's hard work, but it's gonna be and that's and what you just said is why I continue every week to interview four, six, ten different founders because I want more founders that are in this to realize they're not alone. And number two, I want new founders coming in to have the realistic expectation. It's not go to the bank and get $200,000 and then you're gonna be a millionaire in a year. And too many times they come in and then a 12 months later they're burned out because number one, they didn't manage their money correctly, or they tried to do what they see the corporate companies doing, and then they spent all their money trying to compete rather than doing what you're doing, which is this is my niche, and my niche will become a category eventually, but I'm gonna sustain myself within the niche that I'm in. Yeah. Yeah. And that's that's the way to do this, and that's it's slow. It takes time and it takes patience.

SPEAKER_04 36:05

It does, it does, it does. Um, it it is easy to, you know. Um it's very easy to compare. I mean, not even against like the big corporate players, but just like other, you know, I guess not even unicorns, but just the big big case studies and non-alk can be like, oh fuck, you know, like that's exactly it.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

Yeah, from a research and case study, that's what's put into our heads because that's what's available and that's who participates. So yeah, we're we're all zigging and and zagging and uh and we're all trying here. And uh I appreciate what you're doing. But real quick, before we keep going on this one, I know we have about 10-15 minutes or so. Let's let's talk about your story as an individual. Okay. Um let's talk, like, tell me, like, go, let's go to 19-year-old you. Like, did you ever did you ever and I and and don't worry, you can go back to past episodes and I share whatever, I share the warts and whatever. So um you don't have to share whatever you want to share. I'm not trying to get any clickbait out of this, but I want to know 19-year-old you, where are you geographically? What's going on in your life? And did this did this ever think that this ever would be something where you'd be sitting at now?

SPEAKER_04 37:16

It's a it's a great way of asking it. I have told variations of this story before as a founder. Um 19, I had just I just moved to Chicago. I I grew up in Chicago. You can see the you could probably see the now.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

I understand the grit.

SPEAKER_04 37:32

Um, I grew up in Chicago, um moved to Utah for the last two years of high school, and then came running and screaming back to Chicago for college. Uh I grew up Mormon. Okay. So moving back to Chicago at 19 to go to college at DePaul University. Um, and uh that was it was a really interesting way to go to college because I, you know, in DePaul is in Lincoln Park, which is a hop, skip, and a jump from Boys Town and the gay bars.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

And well, Reiners went to DePaul. Yeah, I heard some stories about DePaul.

SPEAKER_04 38:10

Yeah, promptly, yeah. And uh under the radar drinking school, because also like for the straight kids, like Lincoln Park is like the place to so um so I promptly got a fake ID and started going out in the boys town bars at 19, 18, 19. And um uh on the drinking side of things, very quickly learned that you know, part of part of uh the rite of passage in our community is to be in these bars, be in these spaces and drink. And this was before the grinders of the world and all the digital technology that allowed us to connect um more um instantaneously. So bars were really the place that you went to meet people. And um I I was both leaving behind Mormonism, which was is famously anti-alcohol. So I was kind of rebelling and also going to a community where drinking is really central to the social experience. Um and Chicago is a drinking town. So it I just got thrust into a world and started drinking a lot and and and really felt that to drink I had to belong. Or to to belong, I had to drink. And yeah, I definitely had some um some uh uh trial and error with that. And but I do I I I have said before that that's where my disordered relationship with drinking began was like this very, very like, I'm not this thing that I was raised with. I can drink, I'm free to, and also I need to tip along. Um, so there that I would say that that was formative in my attitude towards drinking now, and also why I don't believe that like disco fizz is not an anti-alcohol server brand, right? Like drinking is central to our community for a reason. It helps us bond, it helps us commiserate, all those things. So I'm not gonna shame people for that. So there was that brewing. But also, if you if you ask professionally, how could I have ever imagined that I would have done this? I don't necessarily know if I had entrepreneurialism in my uh in my sites. Um but I that was that was when my like uh interest in brand became a thing. Um and it was very, very like um uh Tom Ford at Gucci. Like this was you know, they're trying to resuscitate it now, but like that was the air, this is early 2000s, and I remember being this like bored kid at college.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

So we're the same, we're the same age, man.

SPEAKER_04 40:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

What year did you graduate high school?

SPEAKER_03 40:58

Uh to uh 2002.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

All right, 2003 for me. So yeah, good, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:05

Um, so um, you know, being a kid, what like looking at uh style.com when it was a thing and seeing like the Gucci shows and watching like the really grainy videos that were available then, and just being like so amazed by like the ability for a brand to create a mood and a world and uh evoke emotion and provoke emotion. And um I was just like I want, I want to, I wanna, I want to do that. I don't know if it was about fashion or it was about luxury, but that would definitely planted the seed. It was just about like, and like I, you know, we grew up with like Abercrombie quarterlies and stuff, like just that stuff and like gap, the gap, just the ability for like a brand to like evoke something and make you make you want to be a part of it and own a piece of it. Um I just um I really got enamored with that. And so for a while I thought it was gonna be like copywriting, but then I realized so brand strategy really became the thing, you know, probably five, six, seven years later. But that was that so that was at that moment, that was when I was starting to become really obsessed with like brands. There's no other way, there's no other way I can say it, but just like the notion of being a person who could um create something that people want to be a part of was um and then you know all the other academic stuff about it came later, and um, but that that's when that was all starting to mix together.

SPEAKER_01 42:46

I think that it's it's interesting today, like in the brand world, because it's like an over in the over overflow of different brands and overflow of strategy and overflow of advertising. Whereas I think kids today, and I it sound very old when I say that, so I'm gonna acknowledge it, but like my I have two I have kids, you know what I mean? Like, and and they their their perception of brands is not the way it was for us, you know. There's so many brands that they don't actually lock in with brands as much as they lock in with feelings, yeah. And it's like we it's exactly the same thing we were trying to strive for, but I'll give you an example like for me, my body structure. You brought in two uh brought two brands that I became the anti I became an anti-brand. So I loved the idea of brands, and I wanted I always did marketing and everything like that. Went to college for that. But Abercrombie and Fitch and American Eagle and all those, I always was, and I'm still to this day, I'm an in-between size guy.

SPEAKER_03 43:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

And also I was always a bigger guy, and I wasn't like like a big guy as far as like I was in shape at that time, and I'm a retired in shape guy at this time. I played a lot of sports, but my size was always different. And it always, as that age at 19, 18 years old, it made me so angry. Because we all connected a society where if somebody wore the Abercrombie, that meant a different caliber of person in into society. I always was like sitting on the outside because I'm like, well, none of those pants fit, none of those shirts fit. They don't make a double XL. You know, they only make an XL. You know, and it's like, and the things got slimmer and slender and everything like that. And that represented where we were as a society because of style magazine and all that, we were in a very much so then I went down eating disorder raps to try to get my body to the place that would fit into those clothes. And as soon as I got a little bit older and realized that I was trying to reconstruct my body to fit a brand, that's when I was like, I only want to work with people of principle and passion. And I was like, and it became my entire shift came to where I still had all the passion for branding and marketing, but it was it was with the purpose of inclusivity. And it was a purpose, it was with a purpose of working with things that were universally able to expand out.

SPEAKER_04 44:59

Yeah, yeah. I mean that's that's the downside of brand is that it can um it can exclude um in the certain in the pursuit of being like pure and being for someone, it can make people feel not part of it. And like like we were saying earlier, you have to um you have to be clear about who you're for. Um and you have to be okay with repelling some people um who don't want to be about what you're for. But yeah, I mean fashion and luxury especially, I think at its worst can really and beauty as well. Um I I have had a lot, I I've worked on a lot of beauty, and there have been times where I really struggled with it because I'm like, oh, we're just oh like you know, like yeah, uh it's like, oh, are we really saying that to women? Okay, you know, like so um uh yeah, at its at its worst, a brand, especially when it's about image, self-image, can be really, really it can be really powerful, but it can also be really destructive. Um and yeah, I mean, I'm sure Abercrombie quarterly gave uh all sorts of kids our age body dysmorphia. Um and that's even something that as I've you know, as I've started doing, you know, um social media for for disco fizz is like the reality in the queer community is there's also quite a bit of like body um body image course. And like, you know, with with the gay male part of the the world, like you know, the certain ideal cells. Um and so I've even like when I've uh thought about casting photo shoots or who I've you know engaged in the brand, I'm like, I don't want to just like rely on hot people.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Right. Um they don't want to be like checkbox of like every color's here, every ethnicity here, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 47:07

Like diversity. In our yeah, yeah, tokenized, right? And especially in our community uh transgender representation too. Which I'm I'm glad that we we have in a in an authentic way. Um but yeah, these these things become, you know, the choices you make as a brand as to who represents it and who it should be for are really tough. And and the the feedback loop is much quicker than it used to be.

SPEAKER_01 47:40

Yeah. To a detriment and a positive at the same time.

SPEAKER_04 47:44

Yeah, you can you can take something down quickly, but it can also, you know, metastasize in a way. And so it does, it does, um, but yeah, you have to you have to be careful about when you're saying you're for someone that you're not saying the other side of it is bad necessarily or not worthy. It's just like this is who we want to be about. If you want to be a part of it, great. If you don't, you don't.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

What I'm gonna do is uh I'm gonna I'm gonna rush this edit because you have your you have your shoot you have your uh BevNet thing coming up. So I want I want to release this. I'm gonna release this before so that you have something when you're on the floor. Okay, because I come from also the business development side of everything being a solopreneur, and it's always nice on the floor of a BevNet or any of those trade shows to have something you can quickly send the link out to people. Really? Oh, you want to know more about me? Here you go. You know what I mean? So um I I know the dates of when that's happening, and uh I'll kind of do that. What um I also want to uh tell you after all that and everything like that, uh by the end of the summer, so we're gonna start doing some roundtable type of stuff where we might bring another brand in and we talk about different things like that. So um, I want to bring you back. I really appreciate your perspective. I really appreciate I really I say this every time. So you know, I appreciate the cojones to like come on without threat because that's something that a lot of people don't share, and I try to reiterate it, and I want people to understand. There's a lot of people that don't come on the show because they want to meet prior, they want to have questions in advance, and that's not what I do, and that's not how I've ever done anything, um, because I believe that in the spontaneity of authentic conversations is where you get the truth.

SPEAKER_03 49:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:19

And not from a clickbait tape type personality or anything like that. It's more or less like I want people to be comfortable in a space to share their story and share their intentions for the world. So um, as we kind of wind down on this one here in the next couple minutes, um, kind of closing out, uh, reiterate to everybody if that's listening, kind of where to find you on social media, where to find you on LinkedIn. And then I'm gonna send you an email later today to schedule a time to do any rehearsal open-ended and rehearsals you might want uh for your bad net. I'd love to be able to support you in that because I know that's more nerve-wracking than getting ready for a podcast.

SPEAKER_04 49:55

So yeah, I haven't the the nerves haven't fully hit yet, but I'm sure they will.

SPEAKER_01 50:00

Um I tell you what, if you if you act like you just did just now and treat it like you just did, you're gonna nail it. And I mean that, like seriously.

SPEAKER_04 50:08

Um so yeah, uh Disco Fizz is available primarily um on premise right now in bars and clubs in the New York City area. We are also gonna be available online um very soon. I think I can share this knowing that it'll be it'll be live by the time you release this. We're part of Paris Hilton's Pride shopping guide. So you'll be able to get a four-pack uh on her shopping guide. The proceeds go to her impact fund, so it's it's um for a good cause. Uh but we'll we'll be launching our own DTC later this month in June. Um, retail stores later this year. Um, you can find us on Instagram at at drink discofiz. Uh search discofiz on LinkedIn, discofiz.com. And um you can just email me, Ben at discofiz.com if you're interested in talking to me. Awesome, Ben.

SPEAKER_01 51:04

And uh that partnering with Paris Hill on that is perfect, man.

SPEAKER_04 51:08

Yeah, I came out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_01 51:10

Um I think it's just it also matches everything we talked about, everything we came from, and every reason as to why we give a shit about brands. I mean, she played a large role in that, whether or not we want uh you know, you're you are you, I am me, and we both she affected both of us in different ways. I mean, it's not just for the queer community, like Paris Hilton was a powerhouse that kids today don't understand.

SPEAKER_04 51:30

Like, yeah, and like, you know, a good example of, you know, um, when you're for when you're, you know, for the queer community, allies notice that and allies wanna allies wanna elevate that. Um, so I'm very, very grateful for for them featuring us among other things.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

Awesome. Congratulations on that. That is awesome.

unknown 51:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:49

So let's uh, I'll kind of I'll kind of wind down here and uh and want to do the closing is again, I want to thank you for doing this. I want to thank you for having the courage to come in on. This is something that does separate people, it separates those that have the resilience and the grit. And I'm gonna give Chicago a little credibility to giving you that grit as well as your own your own personality that I can tell where you very much have embraced where it is and and which where you're going down in your path. And I respect that to a place that I cannot even put into words. And I I know that you've skimmed over a lot of adversities that you've seen in your life at 19 years old all the way to today. And I could see it in your face, and I can see it because that's I read people and I'm not, you know, it's not some woo-woo thing. It's just I can see that and I want to thank you for being who you are and not cowering into the shadows and standing up and saying, This is who the fuck I am and this is what I'm doing. And it's not a take it or leave it, it's a come on in. If you like it, great. If you don't, it's not for you, and that's fine. And I I re I respect that so much. So I would want to give everybody a reminder as well. There's no scripts, there's no agenda, there's no prep. This is an organic conversation, the realest thing on the internet. It is also a testament to everybody today to realize that the world is a beautifully destructive place. It is a crazy world, and everybody is in this alone. And just because your life might be going well right now, I'm gonna reiterate this challenge. Five minutes a week, five minutes a week to a stranger, dedicate kindness to a stranger, walking down the street, put your phone in your pocket, look at the strangers in the eye, smile at people, wave when you're crossing over in traffic, when you're at the gas station, filling up your coffee, look to the person next to you, ask them how their day is doing, and give a shit about what they say, not about how your day's doing. Because what we don't realize is, and what we do realize is we might be alone and other people are alone, and a bit of kindness can make their day, their week, their month. And from my own experience as well as others, it may make a difference in whether or not they want to even exist on this earth. And that is something we undervalue in the true kindness. We talk about ROIs all the time on this show. 20 minutes a month, five minutes a week. If that means that somebody can carry on and find a new path in their life in the next 60 days, or or carries them on to positivity for longer than 20 minutes, that's a great ROI.

SPEAKER_04 54:02

Great advice.

SPEAKER_01 54:03

Thank you so much, Ben. And again, thank you so much, man. I'm looking forward to getting to know you better. And I'll send you that email to schedule the BevNet run through, man.

SPEAKER_04 54:10

Thank you, thank you. And I appreciate all the the openness and the and the questions. It was very, very thoughtful discussion. I really appreciated it.

SPEAKER_01 54:17

We'll be I'm sure we're gonna be having many more because this is one that I actually, I'm gonna be honest, I don't want to end this episode. I'd love to just continue to talk to you. I I have another one on the on the back end of this, and it's a lawyer, and I know she's gonna be on time.

SPEAKER_03 54:30

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 54:31

All right, you take care, Ben. Have a great day, buddy.