Hemp THC Beverages & Saving Asheville, North Carolina | Regulate Don't Ruin NC

Three craft beer veterans explain why hemp derived THC beverages are the most important shift hospitality has seen since the craft beer boom, and why a federal ban could gut the industry by the end of the year.

In this episode of the Ready To Drink Podcast, Nate Fochtman sits down with Chris Frosaker, founder of Hi-Wire Brewing and owner of Joyful Noise Listening Lounge, and Andrew Ross, co-owner of The Whale Craft Beer Collective. All three came up in craft beer, and all three are now building around hemp THC beverages.

The conversation covers why craft breweries are positioned to lead the hemp beverage category, how lab tested and accurately dosed drinks make THC beverages the most transparent option on the shelf, and why a pharmacist sees regulation as a harm reduction win. It also gets personal. Both Nate and Andrew share how hemp beverages helped them step away from alcohol, get healthier, and stay socially connected.

This is part of the Regulate Don't Ruin NC series. North Carolina is deciding right now whether emerging hemp beverages get a real regulated framework or get pushed back to the gray market. The choice affects retailers, manufacturers, and consumers across the state.

Educate yourself, then sign the petition at RegulateDontRuinNC.com

This series is proudly sponsored by Tryon Distributing, Crescent 9, and Torch Drinks.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Andrew Ross, uh founder, co-owner of the Whale Craft Beer Collective.

SPEAKER_05 0:06

Uh Chris Rosacker, um founder and co-owner of Highwire Brewing, and also uh owner of Joyful Noise, Listening Lounge and Kitchen.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Yeah, so the whale is turning nine this year, so we opened in 2017. Um, kind of our whole premise on what the whale was from delivery, and you know, now through multiple locations is you know, a gathering space for upscale higher-end beer. Um the the name the whale is kind of tongue-in-cheek for hard to find salt-after beers. Um, so that's something that we really take to heart with our buy with our buying. And um and then we try to present it in a very uh approachable, non-pretentious yet upscale environment. So we try to make everything very approachable, friendly, bartenders, you know, knowledgeable without pretension. That's kind of the biggest thing for us. Um, because when you walk into the whale, we want it to feel like a nice place to hang out. Um, but we also want it to be if you want to learn a ton about beer while you're there, that you have that option and we can talk through it. And if you already know what you want, we can get you a beer. If you walk in and have no idea about anything about beer, our job is not necessarily just to educate, but also to guide. So we want to engage in conversations to getting you your next favorite beer that you've ever had. And so we're located in Asheville, North Carolina. We have three locations up here, including our original location in West Asheville. We're also in Greenville, South Carolina, uh, down by the baseball field on North Main Street. And we are in Charleston, South Carolina, as part of the refinery complex, which is an amphitheater, um, and that's on North Meeting Street.

SPEAKER_05 1:49

Awesome. How about you, Chris? So Joyful Noise uh is a new venture of mine and my wife, and uh, we are a listening bar. So first and foremost, the most important thing is music. We have uh an incredible, really high-end vintage sound system, over 2,500 vinyl albums in our collection here. Uh and we we curate each night kind of do a different theme, whether that's musical genre or uh like tomorrow we're doing a uh a sake pairing with our food, but also pairing music with it. So we're playing uh Japanese city pop. So we're able to kind of do do unique things with music. Walk in, uh the goal here is it to feel unbelievably comfortable, like so comfortable that you can't get up kind of thing. Uh we want it to feel like your living room, you know, hanging out, listening to music, having a bite to eat, having a beverage of your choice, which which is very relevant for our discussion today. And so, yeah, hanging out, listening to music, good food, good beer, um, you know, no TVs. It's it's just about listening and connecting with uh other people.

SPEAKER_04 2:53

Chris, elaborate a little bit on your your history uh and hospitality in the North Carolina area, and then Ross, I'll come back over to you.

SPEAKER_05 3:00

Uh yeah, so I originally uh was a pharmacist, I still am, and uh it's really uh driven a lot of my views on derived products. But I didn't really enjoy being a pharmacist. So my wife and um other business partner started Fire Break in 2013, which is a crap ready here. So we are one of the larger crap rays in the state. Uh I don't really know the ranking anymore, but uh we'll we'll put out well over 30,000 barrels of liquid this year. Um and uh we sell in eight eight states and we currently operate nine locations. Um my responsibility uh highwire was to build out those new locations and run entire retail projects. So that's that's my document. Uh a lot of people, a lot of locations, uh, a lot of different markets. So I'm very well versed. Pretty much every major secondary market within a 600 metricular, I can tell you where to get where to go get a beer in any of those cities. And uh my passion has always been music, and it's really kind of turned down the last couple years. So it's not to just take a step back from day to day, and follow my fashion and open up a mail bar.

SPEAKER_04 4:16

That's awesome. How about you, Ralph?

SPEAKER_01 4:18

So I moved to Asheville when I was 18 years old and worked everything from the local Ingalls grocery store to cleaning hotel rooms to kind of cooking food, uh, working in a restaurant downtown, um, really enjoying kind of you know my youth when it was still kind of uh easy enough to make your way in Asheville as it's gotten very expensive here. But I was very fortunate to land here. And then um, you know, working in the service industry uh at Mayfell's led me into Wicked Weed. So I started with Wicked Weed a few months after their inception uh in 2012 is when they opened, um, and worked for them for a while and um doing things initially in the back of house and then moving to front of house in their dedicated sour tasting room, the funcatorium. I was one of the first employees there. And then, you know, traveled the country actually with my wife now, but my girlfriend at the time when Wicked Weed first started packaging. Um and when Wicked Weed opened, um there wasn't a ton of mixed fermentation in the marketplace, and especially not uh high volume mixed fermentation, a lot of it was import. And so I traveled the country establishing relationships with other breweries um as I passed out Wicked Weed beer while I was kind of on a vision quest, if you will, um, for a few months, and um ended up making a lot of industry connections. And when it came back um and opened the funcatorium and continued to again just you know, it was a very special place and time um as WikiWeed was doing that, really fostering a lot of these connections, which led uh me and my business partner just to get who also worked at the funcatorium with me or and for Wikiweed um to separate and open our own place with the whale. Um, and so you know, my backgrounds and hospitality has been everything from front of house, back of house to ownership. I don't anymore, but I did own a restaurant up in Virginia um after the hurricane here. So I've kind of been well versed through everything through, you know, bartender opening its own their own bar to learning the backside of all business management, then moving into uh kitchens, which is something the whale does not do, uh moving out of owning kitchens to being back to just the whale. Um, but you know, the big the big thing in all of that is just the fostering of relationships and um within the industry and then within my own staff as well. I think those are the two things that really um strike me as being the most paramount for what the whale does and continues to do is is is industry relations. You know, I've known forever. And um and you know, the one thing that we really did that was a bit taboo that I think got a lot of attention is not selling local beer. And that was something that really came out of knowing everyone that lives in Ashell, because Ashell is not a very big place, and thinking about how fun it would be to get a sales sheet from every one of your friends every morning, every Monday morning, and then have to explain to them why you're not buying their new IPA this week. Um, but that really set us apart from everybody else here. So, yeah, my background is really pretty well versified in in all things kind of hospitality, as you know, it's a hospitality town, and you know, I'm I'm still at you know, a hospitality worker.

SPEAKER_04 7:51

I'm glad that we're having this episode with both you guys with the crappier background, so we can all three speak about that, and and kind of that's kind of the realm I was in as well. And what is interesting right now is when I communicate about let's talk about the hemp beverage regulation, when I communicate in my newsletter to breweries, let's say it's an interesting mix of some that are very much on board and have done the homework and realize how much of a benefit it could be from the grain industry as a whole, as well as revenue stream opportunities for them. And some that just straight up want it dead in the water and bam. What what's some of the have you guys what's kind of the down there? Is that kind of the same way, or is it kind of just maybe some isolated pockets of markets that may not understand the power of hemp beverages?

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Yep. I I think you'd be hard pressed to really in Asheville, especially um find much pushback against uh hemp beverages. Um me as a decently heavy consumer, that sounds terrible, but uh I partake in THC beverages quite often. Um you know, I have a preference um for it. You know, I've really been moving towards trying to be a little bit more health conscious, a little more athletic um the past few years of my life. And so, you know, the THC alternatives have really been beneficial and kind of allowing me to um move that way in my life, which I'm really appreciated of. Um but now in Asheville, it's you're it's pretty hard-pressed to go somewhere and they don't have an alternative beverage, THC beverage, at least CBD beverage, um uh on the menu. Um it's it it it took a second. I think there was even with my own staff when I went to New Orleans and uh a few years ago and found Crescent Um 9 down there uh while I was just walking around Bourbon Street and all the musicians were drinking these drinks, and so I asked the bartender what they were, and they told me. And that was kind of my first introduction to it. And so when I came back from that trip, I immediately got online and started ordering Delta Lights or Delta, you know, that was the one that was doing like straight to consumer shipping. Um, and because there's no real regulation on it and it's not an alcoholic beverage, you know, it was kind of whatever, but we were I I I hesitate to say the first, but I don't know anyone else that was putting it on the whale first brought these in. And I had a lot of pushback from my employees because they were concerned about what that would look like, right? And and I think like through just application and them seeing that there was a demand for the product, and also that the consumer of the products it wasn't some sort of reefer madness kind of experiment here, you know, it's it's the same as uh same as it ever was, and um, it's just an alternative beverage really put a lot of uh calms a lot of nerves, you know, um on my staff side, and everyone felt very comfortable.

SPEAKER_03 10:51

And I think that's kind of the broader picture for everybody at all um you know, quality of the country is that without experience or exposure, maybe there's some presidency, um, just based on the fact that people don't have a relationship with cannabis or understand it or have to endorse that.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

This idea that cannabis is something that you know to do or uh you know, is what's the last better word, which you know, I think anyone that has done a researcher has, you know, an open mind really realizes that it's not, it's a much more mild um approach than even alcohol, you know. And so, you know, from my vantage here, and you know, for sake, you know, for's got a lot of you know experience in bigger markets. My experience is more in Greenville, Charleston, and Asheville as being the primary markets that we're under Virginia as well. Um, but you know, there the the presidency on it that existed maybe, especially as it was emerging, seems to really be pretty mute at this point. Um I think that the idea of having and like where a lot of this comes from is just having a product that is somewhat intoxicating, that's unregulated. Um and what happens is you know, you've got Kratom and things like this that are like in available yes, which that's a real niche market for a consumer that's seeking out this. Now you're seeing the THC move more into a mainstream market, and that's when the government's gonna say, hey, where's our cut, right? Like how do we how do we how do we make money and how do we regulate this? And so I think that that's where the pushback really lives in this moment in time against um alternative beverages is is from uh not understanding, or on the government side, how do we make this work for us? Or is it easier to just say no?

SPEAKER_05 12:56

Be surprised. And I know that clearly these people exist, you talk to them, but you know, it's it's no secret that the craftier world uh is kind of going through a uh a rethinking uh his way out well the last couple years. Um you know, Ross mentioned uh people wanting to be healthier. Alcohol isn't the healthiest thing in the world. Yeah, you know, it people people have uh dependency issues with it, they want a calories, uh you know, and uh it makes sense why at the same time people want to uh continue to socialize, let loose, and become light. So it to me as a businessman You know, I I think it's important to offer what people want. People are wanting these beverages, people aren't wanting to go out and drink ten beers in a night anymore. Um, and so uh beverage manufacturers I think are in the perfect position to ride this wave. You know, we we have the equipment to do it. High wire, for example, you know, we just put in a pasteurizer, a flash pasteurizer, which is something that we never ever thought we would do. We were, you know, there was a point where it was like, oh, that's that's cheating, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But it's just it's an expensive specialized piece of equipment. And we're we're we're doing it, uh we're doing it right. And and because of that, we're actually we've actually brought out a private contract clients for for both beer and for for hunt-tered uh cannabis beverages. Um so from a business standpoint, I I I think you're nuts to not try to dabble in that. Um, even if you're not uh manufacturing these products, um, offering them uh in your tap room, I think is important. You know, there when when we first started Highwire, um, and I'm I'm uh sure most breweries were like this, you know, it was beer only. You know, we we didn't even have a Coca-Cola for sale. You know, it was it was just beer. And as people's tastes and um habits change over time, uh, which they're gonna continually do, you know, most brewery tap rooms were legally allowed and I'll offer wine, now offer spirits, um, non-alcoholic beverages, kombucha, um you know, all of these things to to make a better customer experience. And so again, I think it's a no-brainer to offer these these products. It's kind of a that's something for everyone approach. And one more thing, specifically talking to the Aspille market specifically. Um Aspill's been through an interesting time for the last five, six years. Obviously, we all went through COVID, but you know, Aspirill's never really recovered since COVID. And to make it even worse, uh, we got hit by a hurricane in 2024 that just wrecked the town. I've heard tourism numbers are are down anywhere. And Ross, correct me if you've heard a different number, but 40% 40%. And so we need to be able to offer things that people want. It's it's it's more important than ever to have a very diverse quality forward menu for us to offer because we need people to come back and support it.

SPEAKER_04 16:10

What do you think? Uh has has it changed anything as far as uh expanded your your your guests inside of your establishments as far as having those products in there, or is it the same types of customers that are in there, or is it widen the net a little bit for you guys?

SPEAKER_05 16:23

I think it's widening the net. Definitely, you know, uh craft beer's changed so much since Highwire started and since since the whale started. But we, you know, we we used to just get kind of those, you know, beer nerds or guys who are really excited about about beer. But now we're we get everybody in it. I mean it's it's it's it's uh it's more of a gathering spot in our tap rooms than you know in a brewery per se. Um and some people just don't want to get drunk, or sometimes people need people need uh a break from alcohol. That's very healthy, that's normal. And but they still want to hang out, they still want to be part of the crew, they still want to socialize, um and to be able to have a predictable outcome with these products. Um uh I think it's very valuable for people. I would totally agree.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

I think uh I think that you know it's people don't walk in with beer or weed or whatever tattooed on their head, so it's hard to differentiate what the processor is, right? Like to say it's a different consumer, you know, it's it's just a consumer who's choosing to buy a product. So it's hard to differentiate as the uh inclusion of of uh Hempter and have cannabis beverage on our menu helping more people in. That's hard to say. Are they moving? Are we selling them? Absolutely. Um people only drinking that and uh abstaining from alcohol, no, you know, are some people coming in and having you know two beers and then having a cannabis beverage at the end, you know, as the wine down? Yeah, totally. Um are people coming in and just drinking cannabis, you know, drinks? Of course. Are people coming in and just not drinking THC, you know, drinks? Of course, you know, like it's it's it's it's still a gauntlet. I think one thing that pro hit for sure is Pressville is a really interesting place. Oh, it's has been on top of a giant crystal vortex or something, but um but it's been going through since that's in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

Um how do we encourage tourism? I hope you still there. How do we encourage tourism? Um you know, how do we get people back?

SPEAKER_00 18:45

And while I don't know the answer who would be doing it, right? I know the things that we can do.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

We've moved to being very event focused, um, creating reasons for people to come in other than just to have the Daily Pine or three. Um and that's helped. But I think as a whole, Astral's really poised to be a place, especially in this movement of are we regulating? What are we gonna do for the state? Are we going to move forward with legalization? Um But we've got a really unique opportunity, just depending on how this goes, um, for an attraction of tourism. I, you know, beer tourism is something that Fro and I definitely moved through. Um, you know, him opening the brewery in 2013, really the kind of heyday of craft beer in Asheville, what, 2014, 2015 really started gearing up, becoming a destination. I opened in 2017, so we were a little bit later on it, but I was at the Funcatorium really through the height of it, where you know, we had lines out the door of people showing up to purchase said collaboration with Jester King or, you know, whatever. Like there's a huge interest in it. A lot of that beer consumerism, interest, because beer became very popular culture for a moment. It was um, it was it was the thing to do. So chasing beers was the thing to do to a big network that didn't exist previous to this beer boom. And what happened was you have a huge expansion, and now we're seeing a course correction, a market correction to some sort of baseline because interest in the public view has really shifted a little bit. We're not seeing these lines out the door anymore. Um, but beer is cyclical and it always has been cyclical and it always will be cyclical where interest they move throughout time, depending on what it is. Cannabis is not cyclical. Cannabis has always been expanding. We went from a place of fear, fear mongering and no acceptance of cannabis to uh counterculture, taboo, but acceptance to now really being mainstream acceptance, you know. I mean, with what, 38 states legal or something like that? I don't know the exact number, but um there's a real acceptance for it. And I think that there's this narrative of still unacceptance, and I don't think that that's very valid in the general population. I think that that exists in a place of regulation and government, and then government telling you that there's still people that are very nervous about this and your neighbor's scared that you might grow a plant in your backyard, you know, and it's just not real. And I think Asheville, you know, like Fro's saying, like we we've been beaten down here, man. I mean, there is no other way of putting it other than it's been a struggle. I know without ever asking for hope, hey, has it been easy? That the answer is no, because it hasn't been easy for any of us. But Asheville as a destination and as a place that's really needing support now from tourism more than ever, we need you to come here. It's beautiful, it's great. The vibes are good, the place is good, the hurricane sucked, but it happened and we're moving forward, you know? Like we need people to come back bad. But this idea of of hemp derived beverages. And and hemp and the talk about legalization in the state and regulation and all that, it it should be a reason that people are also coming to Asheville, right? Beer was really that big reason for the last decade, and I think that's great. And we all have been a part of that as far as manufacturers, retailers, you know, whatever our position is to try to push that. But as we're seeing that interest shift, change, move, here's another one that really we could get as a as a town, we could really gather a lot of interest in bringing people here for an escape because that's what Asheville's always been. That's why we're all still here. We're just escaping. We have trying our best to live somewhat retired while working way too hard. And uh and that's the joy that I think Asheville brings, and that's why I think it's so important to have this conversation right now. Um, is it's taking away, it could potentially take away an element that's really a big connective tissue for for our area. I mean, it is.

SPEAKER_04 22:59

It's one of those things that it's it's already on the shelf, and and it's it's a confusing piece. So talk a little bit about, and I don't need the like exact numbers, but could you guesstimate like what sort of is it a decent percentage of certain sales in that category? Or like would it be a big dent into your business? Um, obviously it would draw down the the less people, and then bottom dollar is it is there effect you guys have any ranges or ideas there?

SPEAKER_01 23:23

I think it'd be foolish to say no, you know. I think it'd be foolish to say no. Sorry for I didn't mean to interrupt you. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_05 23:32

Um so um Joyful Noise, we we've only been open about a month and a half. Um, but we uh we sell a good amount of THC bags. Um you know, that kind of makes sense if you're listening to music. Music and cannabis uh have always gone together. Um and so uh yeah, I I do think it would be it would hurt. Um I I do think less people would um go out um because that's that's not an option. Um they're gonna do it anyway. Um so they're gonna stay home. Um so I I I I think to me the most important thing is is not really just the same. I I think most people are stuck with their head on their phone these days and it's also the economy sucks. Nobody has any money. Um so getting out and socializing and and and being with friends and I I think is more important than I think this is just one small piece of screen type of.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

Yeah, I I totally agree. I mean, the whale, you know, we're not a brewery, but we do offer a communal gathering space for uh, you know, as most inclusive as we can possibly be for all people. And I sh like for saying, like, okay, you remove this from the equation. Well, you're only removing the ability for people to get out of their home and converse. And I think in an age of post-COVID where you know we all had to uh really figure out what a relationship with the world is, what a relationship around others is, our comfort level. And it really threw a lot of people for for a spin. Um, you know, uh for sure. I mean, there's no way of putting it. And now we're having a place where, hey, we're we're having these gathering spaces. It's not just about alcohol. Forever it was, but now it's not about alcohol. It's about gathering, it's about communicating, it's about putting the phone down. And I think that these hemp products exist in a place where you now you can enjoy that without being at home because cannabis exists in a way that you can't roll up to the bar with a joint and sit down at the bar and get into a conversation with the bartender, but with hemp-derived THC beverages, it gives you the ability to leave the house to imbibe in something that you're comfortable with, and then to have those communications with the connections with the bartender, people around you, be in a gathering space, get out of your hole. And and and I do, I honestly think that's probably the most important part about this. I think there's two, uh really two. I think the the communal aspect in a post-COVID world is something that we really need to be leaning into. Um, and especially in a post-Helene world for us up in Asheville. Um, you know, the when the rain starts Howling, I guarantee every single person that lives here, we had it happen a few weeks ago and it rained for two days straight. And like I I woke up in the middle of the night and was like, whoa, is this PTSD? Like, I didn't know I had that, you know, like it's still and so it's very important to establish connection. Um, and that's what this does. And I and again, you know, um it would be a really it would be a shame for that to disappear based on the powers that be not understanding um what what what what the the the the the joy that it brings, right? Like the the the community that it brings, like the really the human interaction, you know. Um I think the human interaction, the communalness is a is a huge part. I think also, you know, I'm in South Carolina, and now South Carolina is moving some legislation where you know they're trying to figure it out, like what's the cap and how do we distribute these things. And they're talking about putting all this in liquor stores. And what we're providing, what Faro's providing, what I'm providing, is a space that we sell alcohol, but it's not demanded by alcohol. There's people in recovery, there's people in you know, all different aspects and walks of life that don't want to go into a liquor store, you know? And so what you're actually doing is you're encouraging people to find alternate means so that they don't have to go into places that are uncomfortable. What we're trying to create is spaces that are comfortable, that are communal, that offer things for everybody, no matter what your preference is. Um yeah, I just think I it it it's a real it's a real bummer and a real shame that because of not understanding and really not being able to profit or tax or regulate that they're willing to just scrap everyone's ability to be happy over it.

SPEAKER_05 28:48

I think I I think it's just a terrible thing. Yeah. Um I mentioned before I got into the functionality and um part of the I'm still a licensed. Um one thing that I I think is missed a lot of these conversations uh the fact that these are lab-tested where you know the doses you're gonna get. Um would would would you ever take uh a blood pressure medication without knowing the dose, just willy-nilly? Oh yeah, this is gonna be good for me. Um, I'm sure a lot of us have have stories of one time, man, I ate that brownie and I was out for 24 hours. Like, it's not fun. Um it's it's also dangerous. There's a reason why uh regulates these these chemicals and these compounds that we put into our body, whether whether it's a blood pressure medication or a psychiatric medication or a cancer medication, it it doesn't matter. Um we we regulate these things and we and we make sure that the right dose is given to the right person. Um I view these drinks that way the same thing. Um you know, it's it's um you you you know what you're getting into as opposed to the days of hey man, these this dude made these brownies and they're really strong. Fun. But that's not but that's not appropriate for everybody, especially as as as it's going on in nature. Um so I think just from a public health standpoint and a safety standpoint, um having uh having these these uh these beverages and you know the dose going into it, you know what you're getting yourself into, um I think is safer because let's be honest, people are gonna use cannabis, and people use cannabis. Um it's not going away. So from a harm reduction having these predictable doses I think is actually safer.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

I think that's amazing. I think uh, you know, and I I enjoy that perspective, especially as a pharmacist, you know, like for me, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Right? Right now we're you know, there's accountability for the manufacturers that comes direct from the consumers. If the consumer is getting delivered a product that's marked at some 10 milligram THD, you know, hemp derived THD, and they drink it and it's actually 100 milligrams. Do you think you'll ever buy that product again? No. You know what I mean? And so there's an accountability and a trust that's created between the manufacturer and and a relationship that and the consumer, and that drives now. We're at a point right now where it seems the government is not okay with that being the norm. Well, okay, that's fine, but what happens from there? Well, regulation. And I don't think that there's anyone that's opposed. Maybe we're not a hundred percent in thinking that is the right thing, but where we are in this moment, it is the only way physically or that we're gonna move put forward, right? Is is with a regulation. To remove this, I think is actually more harmful than to regulate. Because if you just eliminate this accessibility from the market, then you'll have things unregulated. And we're doing these in a commercial setting, right? This isn't at your buddy's house. We're doing this in a commercial setting where we're responsible for what is consumed on property. Regulation just makes so much sense. And, you know, I'm sure there's gonna be cut cap conversations. I'm more for, you know, hey, you know yourself, right? And and and play that game. But that's not the government's not gonna go from that. So, you know, if we're looking at, you know, per serving 10 milligram cap, right? Like, I don't think there's anyone that's gonna be opposed to it. If they say five milligram cap, well, you know, we'd like to see 10, but five is better than zero, right? Like, like it it gives the ability for for the government, for us as retailers, for us as manufacturers, to make sure that the product's delivered in the way that it's supposed to, that the product reacts in the way that it's supposed to, and that the government's not worried about the liability of the product falling into a gray area. Um, so I don't really see how there is any pushback towards regulation. I just think that it's gonna be, it's, it's, it needs to be, we need to be proactive. We need to get signatures on this, we need to push the government in a way of knowing, you know, the government's for the people by the people. If this is something the people want and the people dictate, then we need to be loud. We need to let people know, like this is what we want. Not out of fear-mongering, not out of uh I don't use it, so I don't care. We should all care, you know. Um, just in the same way that, you know, with alcohol, there's a responsibility of me as a bartender, me as a bar owner, uh pro as a manufacturer that we're delivering a product that is what it says it is, and that it's served in a responsible way. There's no difference here. There's no difference. And if you gotta cap it, you gotta cap it.

SPEAKER_04 34:36

It's one of the things too, I think it's it's under under said a lot is the those that are farm bill compliant products. They with that QR code and that batching and that testing, it is, and this is all I'm gonna speak as our lens from the being in the alcohol industry. The hemp beverages are the most transparent adult beverage on the shelf. And the irony to like flip it and villainize it is the wilder part. I mean, we all grew up in the craft beer industry. I didn't know I was chugging, you know, eight to ten, four hundred calorie beers half the time. You know what I mean? I put on the weight and I lost it after I quit drinking, but it was one of those things where it's we didn't realize it because it wasn't there. And now these hemp beverages are transparent and they are very in your face as far as here's everything that's inside, every single piece of everything that's going through these batches. So thank you guys both for your perspective.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

And I want to ask you a question, Nate, if I could. Yeah. Uh with your not not consuming alcohol anymore, are you do you use THC uh drinks as a communal or like uh if you go out to the bar? Is that is that a go-to for you?

SPEAKER_04 35:41

Yeah, it is, but it's also one of those things. So I also still work in the alcohol industries, have the products in my pro in my, so I'm not like outside enclosed of it, but I do like it as a bridge in those scenarios. The problem is I'm in Pennsylvania where we don't even have it on the shelves unless it's in a vape shop or a coffee shop. We can't, the law that the only law that exists is that it cannot be distributed, manufactured, or stored uh and sold in a place that else has alcohol. So they did a reversal there where they separated the two from each premise. And that's my goal in our bill that we have going up there so that we can merge them all together and uh really bring that opportunity that you're talking about. Um, but for me, it was also one of those things where it wasn't a ritualistic thing. So it was it, I I commend on this uh show many times that you know, with athletic brewing and and different things like that coming out with non-alcoholic beers, I tried to quit multiple times up until three and a half years ago while working in the industry, and I couldn't uh really get it going until the product started tasting good. Um, so that's when really hemp beverages started tasting well and things like that. Um, but I'm very cautious uh for my personal journey. I don't do anything ritualistically. So it never became hemp beverages at 5 p.m. every day or happy hour or anything like that. It's only for those crutch moments when I'm out in a bar or out somewhere at a at a party or barbecue. I love them to be able to help me socialize and do everything, Ross that you talked about, which is that human connection because the first year of sobriety, I hold up, I hold up in the house and I isolated myself. So now I'm in the back end of that socialization. And everything you said meant meant a lot to me because that's the truth of why I do these episodes and it's why I got into this industry in hemp beverages while also being in the alcohol industry. Because for me personally, I say it publicly here a lot. It saved my life. And I want those products on the shelf, and I want those products to be out there for those people to be able to access them. And whether it's recreationally, medicinally, or just for mental health reasons, everybody should have a choice as to what they want to put into their bodies.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Yeah, I just want to hop on and say uh it saved my life too, brother. Saved my life too. I mean, it really has changed me in a lot of ways to have the accessibility of uh the social aspect and to have something that also, you know, with two young kids, why five bars, uh a daytime gig. I, you know, we're all very busy folks and um to be able to find something to unwind with. Um, and I'm definitely not anti-alcohol. It's what I do for a business, right? But something that works better for me personally. Um, it's really it's changed the ability. I've lost over a hundred pounds, you know, staying motivated, moving, and um, and I really I appreciate that non-ritualistic I aspect of it too. Like um, like it it it it works in a different way. It works in a very different receptor, and um it's a very it's a very mild, it's a very mild thing. It's a very mild thing. And I think the mildness of him derived cannabis, cannabis in general, uh is something that it's very important in this day and age um to express is you know, like anything, too much too fast, you know, not good. But um it's a very mild, it's a mild thing and and and it should be approached without understanding. So I appreciate your perspective.

SPEAKER_04 39:03

Yeah, appreciate your time, guys. It's uh it's something where you know being able to condense this into a very tight amount of time and be able to cover the topics necessary while also being without a script and and just remind the audience as well as you guys are watching and listening. Those of us have never met, except for Chris and I met uh about maybe 10 years ago or so more in the beer world up in Philadelphia when I was recruiting high wire to cover my portfolio. It didn't work out, but here we are now years later again again. So I want to thank you guys for coming on also with that new script part because you had no idea what was coming on. You had no idea what questions I was gonna ask, but you have the cojones to come on, and that courage is something I want to publicly commend every guest because that's the true format of our show. And it also I want everybody to see that that's also the fact of connecting with strangers. And what you just saw here was not only the fact that we care about hemp beverages and we care about what goes into people's bodies, but we also care about the mental health and community aspect that's involved with social connection because at the end of the day, the three of us, that's the business we're in. Uh, we do sell products that do you know bring in social interactions, but at the end of the day, if the world's not social, none of the three of us are in business either. So this is something that uh a lot of people don't think about when we work in hospitality. Is it's really not about the products and the food and the beverage, it's it's about the socialization and the human connection. Again, I wanted to thank you guys for having the honies to come on. Everybody, I want to remind you of the challenge is five minutes a week to kindness to a stranger. When you're walking down the street, put your phone in your pocket, look people in the eye, say hello. When you're at the gas station, filling up your cup of coffee, look to the person to your left, ask them how they're doing, shut your mouth and listen to their story five minutes a week, 20 minutes a month. We talk about ROI on this show all the time. That is the best ROI you can get. There are people in this world while your life might be full, might be healthy, might be happy. There are a lot of people out here that are not doing that well, and a lot of people that feel alone. You could help somebody save their life, their day, their year. And literally, I mean that when you save your life, there's little human connection moments, five minutes a week, everybody. Thank you guys for coming on. I really appreciate you guys taking the time today.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

We're at a really interesting uh point here in uh and you know, regulation, uh, especially when it comes to hemp derived th products uh in uh in the market, in the beverage market. And it's the most important time to show up. Uh the website is uh don't ruin regulate nc.

SPEAKER_04 41:27

Regulate don't ruin nc.com. You're good.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

I gotta put it in the beginning, and we gotta wipe it away in regulate don't ruin nc.com. Anyways, go to the website, check it out. There's a ton of educational stuff on there. It's a really important time for us as people to educate ourselves on what's going on around us, um, from big issues to s to issues that don't necessarily affect you or land in your backyard, but they do affect a lot of people, um, especially in this hemp-derived uh uh market here with the farm bill. And it's really brought a lot of happiness and a lot of progression to a lot of people when it comes to communal socialization, um, you know, the ability to just move better in the world and bring happiness. And I think that even if that's not you, it's great to educate yourself on that because it is your neighbors. And at this point in time, you could really be by not showing up, by not educating yourself, actually harming the ability for your neighbor to be happy. And that is uh it's not the vibe. So the vibe is to hop on to regulate don't ruin nc.com, read up, check up, see what's going on, see what's going down. We're at a crazy point where this could all really go away, and that would not be good for anyone. Um so even if it doesn't directly affect you, learn and make sure that you're showing up, not just for yourself, not just for your family, not just for your immediate circle, but for the people around you, because at this time in a post COVID world and everything going on, the best thing you can have is empathy and understanding of your neighbors. So check it out, read up, get educated, and uh sign the petition. Help us out.