Useless Banter
Hosted by two best friends with too many opinions and no clear direction, Useless Banter is your new favorite dose of chaos, laughs, and real talk. From unhinged travel stories and the highs (and lows) of gay culture, to lifestyle hot takes, pop culture deep dives, and career confessions — nothing is off limits and everything is up for debate.
Whether you’re here for the humor, the honesty, or just the background noise while you spiral through your day, you’ll feel right at home. Tune in for the kind of conversations you have with your best friend at 2 AM — totally random, a little reckless, and 100% useless.
Useless Banter
Ep 23: Botox, Bold Statements, & Bad Decisions
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This week, we’re doing what we do best: having loud opinions about things that nobody asked for but we've been dying to discuss. We’re debating popular vs unpopular takes on Botox, closure (is it real or just a dramatic excuse to text your ex one last time?), dating delusions, standards, red flags, and all the random life topics we somehow turned into a full discussion. It’s messy, unserious, mildly unhinged, and full of the kind of banter nobody asked for—but we gave anyway.
Okay. Hello and welcome everybody. My name is Louise.
SPEAKER_00And my name is Brett.
SPEAKER_02Welcome to Useless Manter.
SPEAKER_00A podcast for two best friends.
SPEAKER_01Shut the fuck. A podcast where we talk about everything useless. But it's highly entertaining, I promise. So um have a drink and definitely love your expectations. Love what you did with the place. Yeah, no, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02I really did it all myself. Um okay, girl. Hey, LOL, we leave for a two-week trip in 48 hours, and we both got Botox. Yeah, no, your shit looks frozen, Mama.
SPEAKER_01She looks so new.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Um, it's really interesting that we're like, like we're looking at ourselves in the camera. Um, it's really interesting because every time I get Botox, I get paranoid about how frozen it's gonna be, or like how because I do want to keep like expression in my face, you know what I mean? And also, we're like young enough where it's more preventative and it's more just like for maintenance.
SPEAKER_00Well, for me, more so.
SPEAKER_02Okay, how many times have we gone out when everybody thinks you're the older one? Okay, honestly, that's so don't even come back.
SPEAKER_00You're also like two feet tall, so I think that adds to it.
SPEAKER_02I think it's also just I'm brown in your way.
SPEAKER_00Honestly, yeah, no, white cracks, bitch.
SPEAKER_02Unfortunately, no, honestly, though, like it's just so funny because I do feel like every time I get it, I'm like, oh my god, is it like super crazy? Like, do I look crazy? Like, you know, I just always get paranoid about it. But I will say, like, I feel like uh ask me 10 years ago, and I probably would have been like, oh, why do you need to get Botox? Like, that's so crazy. And then it's like, I don't know, for some reason, I don't know what it was necessarily that changed my perspective. But as you grow up, you kind of realize, like, look, if you're being safe, careful, and like you're doing your research on it, yeah, then like, you know, if it makes you happy, girl, if it makes you happy, do it.
SPEAKER_00I yeah, I first got mine when I was uh 25.
SPEAKER_02Whoa. They do say, don't they say mid-20s is like when you should start?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It's I mean, every person, injector, anyone that I've talked to, if you look at research, like the younger that you do it, the more natural it looks as you age. Right, right, right. Um, and that's just because it's paralyzing the muscles, right? So like when we get Botox, it's not like we look any different. Like there's no, I'm not like, oh my God. Like it's filler, is what actually changes your appearance. Um, Botox is just preserving it. Right, right. Right. Now, I do think that you can get a little much, and then your face becomes so frozen that you, you know, you can definitely you'll be able to tell when someone's like laughing or something like bitch. I can't really tell that you're laughing or smiling. Um but yeah, I got it when I was 25 and I started with like a very small amount. Yep. And then I just like started building um and getting more as you know, obviously just as you age and stuff. And I have I specifically have very strong um facial expressions and uh lines. So I started seeing lines like at a younger age. I also like did years of tanning and damage to my skin. So just trying to, you know, pull back on that. But um I just yeah, I love how it looks. Like I it doesn't change how you look, but I think that it just makes your skin look like rejuvenated. It does, yeah. It has a way, it makes you more look more like awake, and um, you know, like the more that you can preserve those those muscles and you know, like you stop from getting those creases, right? The less likely that they're gonna like develop for permanently. Because right now we don't have any creases at all. Like we're young enough to where we're not like have just like uh wrinkles without moving our face. But like, you know, if if we were to continue getting Botox, like whatever, it's gonna prevent us from having those permanent lines.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And it's funny because I feel like we were even talking about this the other day. We're like, I don't know if it's just being in LA or California, to be honest, or really a metropolitan city, but I feel like I I feel like now I'm like Botox is like the lowest of the low of things that you could get. Like it's the most common, probably. And like, I don't know. I know that maybe that's just LA and California, but I and I know that there's a stigma with Botox outside of our little bubble here. Yeah, no, which is so interesting because I feel like people that find out outside of LA that I get Botox done, they're like, wait, you do? Like, that's crazy. Like, why, like, whoa, why? What made you get it?
SPEAKER_00I I have the same experience because I have a lot of clients that are, you know, elsewhere and a lot of clients that like live in the south and stuff where things are just a little bit more traditional there. And so, you know, I'm like, oh, like they've asked me, or like I've told them, or whatever, and they're like, Botox? Oh my god, you got Botox? And it's like this outlandish thing where in LA I'm like everyone gets them here, and it's like it's really not as big of a deal. Uh, and I I don't think that you know that until you get them. Yeah, and you're like, oh wait, this is it.
SPEAKER_02And I also think again, it's like about doing your research with it a little bit, like digging in because having someone that you trust, because I think yeah, exactly. Because I think like I think a lot of people think like Botox equals plastic surgery. You know what I mean? Like they're like, oh my god, you're getting needles in the face, like you're doing all the like you're getting a facelift. And it's like, no, I'm not doing all that. Okay. And granted, like you, I'm not saying do Botox. I'm just saying, like, that's it's interesting to see the perspective shift within myself. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and that might be an unpopular opinion outside of LA, but I feel like in LA it's a very common, and I'm not using that as an excuse, but you know, it's just interesting to hear that when you leave LA.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I am an a Botox advocate. I'm like, everyone could use a little bit, and I'm kidding.
SPEAKER_02Um I'm just like uh if it again, if it makes sense. It makes me happy. There's a way to be safe about it. I know even with plastic surgery and pro procedures and stuff, there's only a certain amount you can get within a time frame. I definitely am like, hey, you know what? Like, take your like take things with a grain of salt or like take things as you need. Um, but again, like I don't know. I just think at the end of the day, you're the one walking around in your body and in your I don't know, self. So if if that's really going to eat at you, um and there's a safe way to do it, then you know that's your body, your choice.
SPEAKER_00What do you how do you feel about uh filler? Because filler is a completely different to be honest.
SPEAKER_02I don't know like the the risks of filler, like I don't know what the the cons are necessarily. I personally right now don't have a desire to get any, but I also don't um like if people get filler, sometimes you I don't even know that people have gotten filler until they tell me. Yeah, and I'm like, whoa, you know, obviously you hear about those or you see the extremes of it. So I'm like, I do think for me personally, I just want to make it look as natural as possible. But I know that it's easy to then be like, you're used to how you look in a certain light, yeah, that you keep going up and up and up.
SPEAKER_00I think that um there is kind of like um a stigma because a lot of times when people think of filler or plastic surgery or whatever, we our brains or what the media shows us are the most extreme cases, right? Like full-blown facelifts or these like, you know, because some people that is what they're that is the look that they're trying to achieve. For sure. But like, you know, with every with like the girl that I go to, we've like, you know, I've had really in-depth conversations with her. I'm like, listen, I don't want anything that I do to look unnatural. Like I want to stay looking how I look, but like just enhance or preserve my beauty. Like that's that's it. And there is a way to do that with filler and with Botox and with all the things. Like there is like subtle aesthetic changes that are you wouldn't even notice, but do make a big difference to the person looking in the mirror. You know what I mean? Yeah, and I think that that is totally acceptable and totally like I mean, I encourage it because you know it's like you have to live with your image and and whatever makes you feel confident or makes you vibrate at a higher frequency, absolutely do it. I have yet to get filler every time I go. She's like, you could use a little in your cheeks. And I'm like, gag. I'm like, oh well, fuck my drag. Oh my god. And but I'm like, to what I always tell her is like, I what my biggest fear is, I'm very afraid of feminizing my face because I already like, even though I have this crazy beard, I have like very feminine features underneath this beard. Like I have a small nose, I have like a uh what is this called? The Cupid's bow on my lips. Like I so I have to be careful of what I do because like I already I have very thin eyebrows. Like if I do a little bit with filler, like I could really feminize my face. That's what you're saying. You know, so that's always been my thing to her. And she's like, oh no, you won't, like whatever. So I'm not completely against it. I am a little afraid of it because I haven't done it. And because with Botox, you don't see the change right then. You know what I mean? You don't, there's no appearance difference. But with filler, it's an immediate thing. Like you leave looking changed, like different in regards. I think if I didn't have this beard, I have seen like the the male, the jawline that I think that like really, really I've seen it like change men's lives. Like it really like that adds that structure, but there's no point with a beard to do something like that, you know.
SPEAKER_02You know, yeah, I am grateful in the sense that I don't feel like I look at myself right now and think like you need filler in these spots. I know that that's part of their job is to like upsell you on it or whatever, or you can just help out, right? They're they're trying to maybe like, yeah, no, let me help you out. Yeah, let me help you out. Like, I don't know, but that to me is just so crazy to be like, you know, have you ever thought about getting it here? Like, you can really use them. So, but I do understand that that happens, right? Um, I I don't know why this is making me, I mean, I know why, but this make me think of the show The Beauty. Yes, the Brian Murphy. It's so good, it's so good. Uh I've only seen like the first couple episodes, me too, but it is so, so interesting because it is this, like, no spoilers, but like also because I don't know that much about the show, but um, it is very much about you know the standard and the desire to be beautiful in society. And how will people do anything? Anything, yeah, go through this crazy procedure where they completely transform, but it makes them crazy, whatever. It's like a whole thing, right? So I don't know, it does have to deal, it does deal with like the plastic surgery and that like side of things. So I think it's really, really interesting because I do think like in our society, obviously, like looks are just a big thing that they're a huge. Yeah, as much as we don't want them to be, and I do I am very much an advocate for like love the way that you look, and if you want to make a change, make a change, but also we have to know that like we have to also just love ourselves in the way that we are, yeah, to an extent because excuse me, because we can't keep chasing the needle, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, like there's also I think a scary uh hole that we can fall into.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I when I was younger specifically, and I used to be just a lot more, and you know, I still struggle, but uh I used to be a lot more insecure about my appearance. Um, and I used to really, really struggle with it and just like the way that my face is set up and the different features and all the things. So like I used to like go down rabbit holes where I would just like obsessively watch plastic surgery videos, and I would be like I like had a list in my phone of like all the things that I wanted to get done. Oh my gosh, which is like that's like crazy, so insane. I'm like, okay, like well, I just want to change my nose here a little bit, and then I could do like a little bit eyebrow lift here, and then like what and I would like watch these things and watch, I'm like, okay, like oh that looks good on them. I'll do that too. I'll do that too, you know what I mean? But obviously, it took me like a lot of healing and understanding to know that that would be me doing all those things would be me chasing the needle and not necessarily me like showing up for myself, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02What that and I asked this because there's probably people out there going through the same thing. Yeah. What was that healing like for you? Like, what did you feel like you did?
SPEAKER_00Um I forced myself to go out and like live and be present. Okay. Um, where I prior, I like my coping was to like sit in front of a mirror and pick myself apart. And I got to a point where I was like, what am I doing? I'm literally wasting time where I could be out, like living life, breathing air, you know, traveling, doing these things where it's like I'm forced to be present and enjoy life beyond what my appearance looks like. So, like honestly, I really just started diving into the things that I'm passionate about, like uh being with my friends, being with people that like supported me and like built me up. Um, you know, it's uh and I even still to this day, I will still have when I'm going through it, and I told you about this, like it's something that I kind of retract to where I'm like, ugh, I'll like go back and sit with the mirror and be like just like pick myself apart. And then I'm like, Brett, you're in a space that you've taught yourself to go away from. So like let's get out of here, you know? Yeah. Um, because I think like if you have that space, it kind of never goes away. It'll never fully go away. You just like learn how to to cope with it a little bit better and you learn how to like get out of your mind and be like in your body and be like in touch with reality and like touch grass and be like, I'm okay, I'm alive. Like, um, because that also like I used to be like, and even still, again, like I'm not 100% healed. I don't think you ever are, but like I'll go through things where I'm like obsessively like going through my Instagram and thinking, like, okay, I wonder what people are perceiving of me. Like, oh my god, when people go on my own Instagram page, like whatever, I'm zooming in on pictures of me, like, oh my god, is this the angle of my face that they're seeing right now? Like, it's like very obsessive, compulsive thoughts. And I do think that there's a lot of people that struggle with that just because of how we're forced to grow up with all of these comparisons to like these unrealistic figures of people and their bodies and what they look like and whatever. And so, um, yeah, a lot of it was just forcing myself to like go outside and be present in my day and take all of that away and just be like raw and open and and um vulnerable with the people around me. And I also think that talking about it helps. Yeah, I think that like a lot of people will suffer with those things in silence, and I'm just not one of those people. I I always speak on it, and that has helped me a lot because it's also helped the people in my life like love me how I need to be loved through those things.
SPEAKER_02I agree in a weird way because I know that like you know, we can kind of joke with you of like, oh my god, Brett, don't do that, like don't go there, you know what I mean? Like, don't think of it like that. But also, I think at this point we understand you and we know we know what is truly going on in that in those moments, but also I think it also opens the door for at least I can speak for myself. I think it opened up the door in our friendship for me to also be open about my insecurities, and that's not to say we sit and like sit in them, no, but it's like if I'm feeling some type of way, normally I was that person who would just keep it to myself. I would just pull it, put it down because I'm like, I don't need to bother anybody with these uh insecurities, these are my insecurities, and like they're no one else's, and like nobody wants to hear how you think you look fat or whatever, you know, like no, but it's like in a way, I'm grateful that you are vocal about it because the same thing, it has allowed me to also just be like, you know what, I'm really just not feeling hot right now. And if I'm not feeling hot right now, then you know where I'm coming from. It's not like uh I'm sitting here quietly, like, you know, in my own world, suffering alone because I know that you get me, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00And then I'm able to show up for you and them. I'm like, okay, then I I need to show up for you in this friendship a little bit more because I know that you're maybe not feeling your best. Yeah. And so many people are afraid to do that. Right, right. So many people are afraid to speak on their insecurities. And it's I I do think that there's a balance. I don't think it should be because it used to be something that's all I could talk about. I see. I could I, you know, I could never compliment myself. I could never say, well, I feel good right now, well, whatever. It was always like negative, negative, negative. And now it's like reframed in a way that it's just like, hey, like right now I'm struggling. Yeah. And like I want to be open with you about that because that's where I am, and I don't want you to think that has anything to do with you, but this is where I'm at in the moment. And so, not that there's an expectation for you to show up for me, but this is what's happening. And like, if you can love me more in this moment, then that's helpful. And and most of the time, if if you're around someone that you love and you know that they're struggling internally, just in that moment or whatever, then it's it's easier to like show up for them and maybe help them get out of their mind and into their body, you know.
SPEAKER_02I also want to say that people deal with or express, people express that insecurity differently for sure. So, like, while some people might just say like openly say it, um, some people might manifest in other ways. Yeah, some people might make jokes about it, and I think the and I feel like we've had this conversation, like sometimes when someone's joking about it, it can be interpreted as like, ugh, they just want attention, they're just like begging for a compliment. But the truth is some people cope with that by laughing at themselves or laughing at the situation, yeah, whatever it is. But the truth is they really are feeling that inside, they just don't know how to express that.
SPEAKER_00I think this is something I've also really struggled with is because I I have a lot of times in the past and still sometimes I make a joke out of my insecurities because I am such a people person and such a social person that I like to make people laugh and that builds me up and that makes me feel good. And when I am feeling insecure, I like to make light of it, or I like to beat somebody to the joke. I like I it's like a protective coping mechanism where it's like I'm gonna say this about myself and let you know that I already am thinking it so that you can't say it and use it against me. I'm gonna beat to the punch. Correct. And um, so then sometimes the reaction will be, oh, Brett is you know, fishing for compliments. He's saying this about himself because he wants people to be like, no, you're not. Oh, you're not whatever, you look whatever. And it's like it that can be very frustrating to me because that's not what I'm doing. Right, right. And actually, your compliments aren't even aren't really gonna change what I'm going to see in the moment. I'm still gonna see that. And just because your perspective of me or your uh the way that you perceive me is beautiful, like you see me as beautiful, and you don't think that I have any right to feel how I feel about myself has nothing to do with me. And it's like because I have my own journey, I have my own history, and there's a there's everything in my life has got me to this point, has gotten me to these insecurities, which these things that I don't feel so great about. So, like just because you don't think I should have insecurities or you're like you're such a beautiful person, like um, that that has nothing to do with what's going on here. And a lot of times that people bring light to their insecurities, it's not because they're asking for a compliment.
SPEAKER_02Well, and I I think I'm lucky to have known your story before, kind of at the beginning of getting to know you, you know, and working with you and spending more time with you in that sense. Because I think it's very easy for people to think like, I mean, you are a healthy, fit, attractive guy, right? So, like, I think it's for people like that, people just always think that life is so much easier for them. Which, hey, there's pretty privilege, absolutely, right? Like, whatever. But I think a lot of people, like, I would have never known your upbringing, your history, the challenges you went through mentally, like even hearing you say that now, right? Like, a lot of people probably don't know that you dealt with all of that growing up and to know the ins and outs. So when it comes to play now, I'm like, I know that that is where it's coming from. You've grown and you've developed, of course. But like, I know that you are not fishing for compliments, right? You genuinely are just coping with and learning how to handle that everything I've been doing. Demon inside, you know what I mean? So, but a lot of people don't know that. So a lot of people just immediately jump to conclusions, and I only say that because you're not the only one. You know what I mean? Like there's so many people that deal with that.
SPEAKER_00That some of the most outwardly what you would think in your life are confident people are really the most insecure or have really been through the most that have gotten them to a point of like really struggling with loving themselves. Yeah, yeah. And like, I mean, I obviously know that firsthand, but like, you know, just being bullied or all these things where it's like your body stores this trauma and remembers, and um it can it it can be really hard when people have those thoughts because I if I didn't know myself, I would probably feel the same way. Yeah. Because, you know, I am a fitness instructor, I'm a dancer, I'm a performer, I stand up, I speak in front of people. When you meet me, I you would probably assume that I'm a confident person because I take up a lot of space energy-wise, and you know, just whatever. But it's like that really has nothing to do with the way that I perceive myself internally. And so I that's like my wish is for people to remember that, you know, and just like have uh grace in situations like that where it's like people people, I mean, there's definitely situations where people are fishing for compliments, but that's not always the case, yeah, you know, for sure, and it it is I think it's also yeah, I think I I think it's just taking everything with a little empathy and grace.
SPEAKER_02Um, of course, you know, we also have to remember that we are fortunate to be in the bodies that we're in. A hundred percent.
SPEAKER_00Like I think, and that's been a that's been another huge part of my healing, too. I will say, is like uh being able to. Appreciate what my body can do versus how it looks. Yes, yes, you know, like I my body is extraordinary. I the things that I've gotten to do with dance, with cheerleading, tumbling, teaching fitness classes, like all these things, my body is so resilient and I am able to push it so far. And I am so grateful because all those things light me up and make me who I am. And I would be nothing without the things that I get to do with my body. So, like, how can I be so angry at it for how it looks when it's literally fueling the things that I love so much? So, like being able to bridge that gap has been also extremely healing for my body image.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's good. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I also I mean, I I go through those moments too, right? Like, I think at the end of the day, I have to remind myself like younger me would be so happy to be in the body that I'm in now. And also, like, there are other people who are probably looking at you, being like, I wish I was them, or whatever it is. And you know, and that's not out of like being cocky or whatever, it's just a reminder that I have to be grateful for this, you know? And it goes back to like, you know, just the way that like I take care of myself. Yeah, no, you're good. Sweaty armpits, ew. No, I'm just kidding. Um, I I do think like the way that you take care of yourself. Yeah, the way that I take care of myself really is when I'm on, when I'm taking care of my body, when I'm eating well, working out, active, getting rest, like all that stuff. I feel the best about myself. You know what I mean? Yeah. And that just goes to show because I'm like, to be honest, my bot body probably looks five percent different in between those moments. Minimal. Minimal. But like I feel a hundred percent better. 100% better. So it's like a lot of it is mental, right? It's huge, it's huge. Yeah, so it's just about taking care of yourself.
SPEAKER_00Um, okay, on a lighter note, yeah. Because we dove yeah. Um, so we we were kind of, you know, with our girl Chatty. You know, we love our girl. We love our girl Chatty. So we were like, hmm, let's look up some like interesting, unpopular, unpopular opinions and let's debrief on them. Yeah. So we looked them up, but we haven't even talked about them yet. We haven't any Right, right.
SPEAKER_02Like Botox was kind of the start of it all. Like Botox, that we were having that conversation. We're like, yeah, that is an unpopular opinion outside of Alpha. It is an unpopular opinion, yeah.
SPEAKER_00That it's simple, easy, uh common, whatever. Yeah. So let's get into Chatty's actual unpopular opinions. Um okay, the one that I have here is uh not everyone deserves closure.
SPEAKER_01That is so real. Okay. Do you agree? Do you disagree?
SPEAKER_02I I know. I I agree. I don't think that everyone deserves closure. I know that's fucking right. I just I think sometimes you have to protect your piece. You know what I mean? Like, okay, I've I guess like been in situations where I feel like everyone wants me to get closure, right? Yeah, whatever. We're just gonna say, yeah. So everyone wants closure to happen. Everyone around you wants closure to happen. You should have the conversation with okay.
SPEAKER_00You're saying like your friends want you to get closure from a situation that from a situation, and everyone is saying, like, okay, at least you should get closure from this. You deserve closure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, or like you should talk to that person, you guys should like at least like uh whatever, like let the dust settle, whatever, you know, like you guys should get that closure. But then it's like the person on the other end is like, sure, we'll have a conversation, but I'm right. And it's like, so this conversation is not gonna be productive. I'm probably gonna, I'm probably going to leave the conversation feeling worse than I came into it. Yeah. And I just don't think it's worth my time. I'm at peace with staying with keeping arm's length. Yeah. I'm at peace with how like the dynamic that might just not be between us, and that's fine. Yeah, it doesn't have to be. So why do I have to put myself in a situation where I'm only gonna get attacked? Um, so I don't feel like everyone deserves that closure all the time.
SPEAKER_00I also feel like silence is the best closure.
SPEAKER_02Sometimes, hey, time will heal all wounds, honestly.
SPEAKER_00Sometimes I don't know. I just think when a dynamic has been through um so much damage that even a conversation doesn't feel um possible or productive, what are we what are we doing here besides just heightening our frustrations about the situation because we're we've gotten to a point where we're talking to a wall. So the best closure for the both of us right now is to walk away and allow silence and time be our closure.
SPEAKER_02I also think, so like thinking about this kind of like in a dating perspective, because I feel like I'm sure a lot of us have experienced this, but like post-breakup or whatever it is, sometimes you start to convince yourself that you want closure, but in reality, you're just missing what was. And that could be a friendship too, right?
SPEAKER_00Oh, have I been there, basically?
SPEAKER_02Right, right. And that could be a friendship too. Like you could be like, Oh, I missed the friendship that we once had. But the reality is that you don't have that friendship anymore and that the dynamic changed. And same with a partner, right? And I have stopped myself in the past because I'm like, I don't deserve this conversation, I don't deserve to have that conversation because I'm really all I'm doing here is going to be reeling someone back in that doesn't need to be reeled in.
SPEAKER_00I have definitely, in my anxious attachment style, claimed to need closure, closure, and have begged the other party to talk with me one last time. Yeah, but I didn't want closure. You wanted them to change their mind. I wanted them to change their mind. Yeah. I wanted to talk them into staying trying again. And that was the worst thing that could have been for either one of us. You know what I mean? Where it's like clearly this is no longer working. The closure needs to be the time and the distance apart. Usually the party that is anxiously attached, when they're seeking closure, they're seeking an opportunity.
SPEAKER_02Right, right. You know what I mean? Yeah, that can be real. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00An opportunity to get in front of someone, to beg, to plead, even if, and because I've been there, it's just for that person to try for just a few more days until it gets to the and you know it's gonna get to the same outcome, but like you're in so much pain and your heart is so wounded that you will literally do anything to even be in their presence because it gives you some sort of false relief. Oh, 100%. And then you'll like, okay, let's try for a few days, and then you give it your best, and you're like doing everything to people please them, and it's like they've already checked out the the closure is already there. You know what I mean? I yeah, it's it's rough, and then I've also I've only once ever been on the flip end of it where I feel like in a dynamic, my heart uh had been broken so many times by the same person in the relationship that I was in that the closure for me was like my heart hardening. Like I went through this internal shift that I never thought because I in the relationship, I was always the anxious attached one for all the years that we were together. So I was always the one even though I was the one getting my heart broken and being wronged, I was the one begging for them to not leave me, begging for them back, begging for an opportunity to talk, apologizing when I was the one that was hurting. And I went through this internal shift where it's like I had just had enough. My heart had been broken and broken and broken and broken to a point where then I just it stopped feeling. Yeah. And then I didn't know, you know, the other party, which was shocking to me because like one thing about the tables, oh wait, one thing about yeah, one thing about the tables is that they turned. Is that they're gonna turn. Yeah. Okay, one thing about the tables is that they're gonna turn. The other party was begging for closure, but then they became the anxious attached, and they weren't begging for closure, they were begging for an opportunity. Yeah. You know? Yeah, and so sometimes I think it's way more rare that you can sit down, have an amicable, like, okay, have a good life. Let's shake on it. You know what I mean? Like, there's usually one party that's a little bit more anxiously attached. Not to say that it doesn't happen.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and not to say that there's not a way to have closure. Like, I think in some cases you can have a good, healthy closure. But like you said, there are moments, there are occasions where this is where that that uh opinion comes into play. Not everybody deserves closure because sometimes it's not closure that they want.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And also, like, if you've done me so dirty, you know what I mean? Like, oh, yeah, if you've done me so dirty, and I'm so sorry, my heart just hardened, babe. Like, she had no, she had no other option.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Then you're you gotta, you know, reflect and hopefully take a better version of you into your next relationship. No shame. No shade, no shame.
SPEAKER_01No, babe.
SPEAKER_02The shade is dwork, okay. Yeah, um, yeah, I I uh unfortunately, uh maybe not unfortunately, fortunately, but sometimes unfortunately, I feel like I am very easy to compartmentalize in my life. Oh, we know, babe. We know. Like if if it's not serving either of us, if this is not if it gets if it's not serving, if it's not serving Ken, then I don't know why. I just, yeah, I mean, I am a people pleaser, which is so funny. I I am, I have been a people pleaser in the past, and that's you know, whatever, but oddly enough, I do feel like if you wrong me or if things just if I get the ounce that this is getting toxic or just isn't good for I for any of us, I I am pretty good at walking away. Yeah, it's o-doo motherfucker. No, kind of literally. Like, I you know what I mean, which again, sometimes I'm like, okay, like, do I need to like slow down? But at the same time, it's like I am protecting my peace and I'm okay with that. Right, right, right. Okay. I think I got time for one more. One more, yeah. Okay. Let's do one more. Let's do one more. All right. Okay, this one kind of ties into what we were just saying, but also woof. Being low maintenance is sometimes just people pleasing in disguise. Being low maintenance is sometimes just people pleasing in disguise.
SPEAKER_01That is a truth if I ever heard one because that is earth shattering. Like that.
SPEAKER_00Because that is read me down. Yeah, for filth. Like I've never heard a more true statement if I'm being honest, and that really made me self-reflect a little bit. Yeah. Say it one more time.
SPEAKER_02People pleasing or maintenance. So sorry, sorry. Being low maintenance is people pleasing in the sky.
SPEAKER_00So let's unpack that. So sometimes being low maintenance, can be, which is oftentimes in social social settings, is you know, putting someone's comfort before your own. It's being the chill, go with the flow. Yeah. What do you want to get to eat? Oh, I'm down for whatever. Uh like, oh, yeah, pay me back later. Um, yeah, uh, any I'm down to do whatever. I I have no preference. I I'm just here for a good time. Like I'll sleep on the couch if I need to. Yeah, yeah. No sweat. Oh my gosh, yeah. Uh no, you don't have to, you don't have to give me a blanket. I'll be okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I could sleep on the lawn. It's fine. Yeah. Yeah. But it's true. I do think that like a lot of times, and I've been guilty of this, because to be honest, a lot of times I'm not, I don't feel like I'm a very picky person, but at the same time, I have fallen into the trap of just wanting to be the oh my God, we love him. He just like is so down, or oh my god, we love him. He's so easy, easygoing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I think too, uh, because you know, I have been around people, which I I think there's a good balance, you know. But I've been around people who are super demanding of their personal comfort. Name names. I'm just kidding.
SPEAKER_01No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I don't need to. Oh my god. No, I'm just kidding. Um telepathy.
SPEAKER_00Wait, yeah, yeah, yeah. Telepathy.
SPEAKER_01Telepathy.
SPEAKER_00Um, but and hey, it's no shade. But and and honestly, it's always sunny in here, by the way. Um I I sometimes have am envious, and then sometimes I'm a little cringed out by it because I do think that there's like a good balance, but I've been around people who demand their comfort, demand like a certain outcome, or like they feel like they should be able to decide what is happening next. And I know that some people are raised like that, and I do want to raise my children like that in some regard. However, I do think that there's like a time and a place, um or a way to communicate that. But there's always a way to communicate that that can be soft, you know, because I think that you should always verbalize your comfort or your needs in order to be like happy within a situation, but there's a way to do it that doesn't make everyone in the party uncomfortable. Um, and I think that my my dad was always someone who demanded comfort, he would send food back 12 million times or whatever, and I was wildly uncomfortable. I would apologize to the waitresses like in the restaurants, like um, it would send me like it was something so and then my mom was the exact opposite. My mom was a people pleaser down, and so I think I took after her and you know, was like always so like paralyzed by my dad like making a scene about certain things that I myself became definitely a people pleaser, and I just was like, I just want everyone to be comfortable and happy in the situation because that made me feel more comfortable or happy, and it was like I think that's this is a little bit darker, but I think that a lot of times people that are people pleasers are conditioned or just really good at suffering. Oh my gosh. That is real. Yeah, like you're like, I would rather suffer. I I've been doing it, I know how to do it. I will suffer to know that everyone else doesn't need to because then that'll make me feel better. If I know that someone else is suffering, that is so it will just it will really affect me because I'm more of an empath and I can feel people's feelings. And so I think that's always been my kind of thing is like I cannot stomach the thought of knowing that someone or in my presence is like suffering. Because like I'm like, I'm already good at suffering, so let me just take that on and you be at peace because it'll make me feel better. And suffering is the norm.
SPEAKER_02So interesting because it's like, why do we feel like we need to suffer? I don't know. Like, I mean, I I because I feel I relate to that, you know, in those moments, it's like, okay, I would rather suffer in silence than make you guys uncomfortable because seeing you guys happy makes me happy. And that's that part I like.
SPEAKER_00It's like seeing you happy makes me happy, but it's like, wow, I really do be making myself suffer just to make you or like God forbid I verbalize what I want to do, and other people disagree with it. I why can I not handle that thought?
SPEAKER_02Right, and it's like it should be okay. Like, hey, the worst they say is we don't want to do that, and you're like, okay, we move on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and sometimes I am appreciative of when someone verbalizes what they want, so we can just make a decision. Sometimes it's refreshing. Yeah, but for some reason I can't because I don't want to sway the group in a certain way.
SPEAKER_02And then sometimes you're not the only one who thinks that you're just the only one who's confident or not afraid to say it. Right. So like sometimes someone will verbalize something that's off the beaten path, and I'm like, actually, that sounds amazing. Let's do it. Yeah. So, like, you know, so I think it is that's something that I want to work on too, is just being a little more. I do feel like I'm better at the same time.
SPEAKER_00I feel like the both of us have been trying. I I feel like I've seen us both trying, but I think that when like people pleasing is so like deeply ingrained, um it still feels like you can yeah, progress. And I it's so funny when I when you said that I was and when I read it, I was like, it's so funny because I always tell people, oh my god, I'm so easygoing. I am, oh don't even worry about me. Like I like literally use the same verbiage, and it's like, are you easygoing or are you literally do you just want everyone to love you so bad?
SPEAKER_02Oh my god. It's like I I just am always like, yeah, no, I'm down for whatever.
SPEAKER_00I'm down for whatever is really the one that's like it's like true to some extent.
SPEAKER_02It is because I really like again, if we're picking a place to eat, I'm not a picky eater, so I'm always like, you know what, I will eat whatever. But it's like then sometimes I I'm like, okay, no, but what are you actually like craving? You know what I mean? Like, I have to ask myself because that's just so habit at this point sometimes. And I know that that can be annoying because people want you to make a decision.
SPEAKER_00I was trying to make a decision on what to eat is a mother of thing worse. Hopefully, somebody on this vacation is just gonna take the reins off. Oh, they they will. And I'm the worst too, because I I'm actually the worst worst because I am like, oh, I'm down for anything. And I'm 100% the pickiest eater in the room every single time.
SPEAKER_02Which throws me every time because I'm like, we're like trying to decide a place to eat. I'm like, okay, but what do you want to eat though? Because I was like, I couldn't.
SPEAKER_00Literally, I in that moment am like, I will order a piece of bread because I don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable or me to have to like, I would rather suffer than people make a decision based off of me because it makes me feel selfish and uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_02You are. No, I'm just kidding. No, I'm kidding. I that, yeah, yeah, yeah. I do get you though. I do understand you to an extent because I can be very much the same.
SPEAKER_00Which, oh my god, speaking of, I didn't tell you, I recently went to a Mexican restaurant, and now I know what I can just order every time I go to Mexican restaurants. What? Fajitas, but I just eat the meat, you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02Okay, but it's the same thing if you're eating the meat and then the tortilla girl. Just put it together. But it's like you're already eating the meat and you already eat the tortilla. Like you like tortillas. Yeah, I don't mind.
SPEAKER_00So then why don't you just put the meat in the tortilla? Because it's like I don't need to, and I'm not putting any like salsa in with it. You know what I mean? Then it's like just dry.
SPEAKER_02You don't like salsa? No. Okay. Um, all right. Well, listen, this was so fun.
SPEAKER_01I'm so glad we said, and you know what we always say one man's useful. No, one man's useless is another man's useful. Oh my god. And on that note, he's not used to you guys.