EP 23: Mastering Positioning and ROI: The Strategy Behind High-Earning Realtors with Bryan Short

In Episode 23 of The Buyer’s Box Podcast, Andrew Burnett sits down with Bryan Short, Founder of Real Estate Training Labs, to break down how top agents build a real estate business driven by ROI, positioning, and high-value client targeting — not just lead generation.

📥 FREE EBOOK (POSITIONING + ROI FRAMEWORK)
Want the exact system top agents use to earn more with fewer deals?

👉 Download it here: https://joinshft.com/free_ebookep23

Inside this episode, you’ll discover:

• Why most real estate marketing strategies fail
 • The real profit formula: Deal Size × Margin = Income 
• How top agents generate 2,000%–4,000% ROI
• Why targeting affluent clients changes everything
• The difference between cheap leads vs profitable leads
• The system behind consistent real estate pipeline growth

👥 WHO THIS EPISODE IS FOR

• Realtors stuck in low-profit, high-volume cycles
 • Agents wanting to break into higher price points
 • Team leaders building scalable systems
 • Agents ready to shift from hustle → strategy

🎯 WHY THIS EPISODE MATTERS

In real estate, more deals don’t always mean more money.

The agents who win…

👉 Position better
👉 Target smarter
👉 And optimize for ROI

📥 FREE EBOOK (POSITIONING + ROI FRAMEWORK)
Want the exact system top agents use to earn more with fewer deals?

👉 Download it here: https://joinshft.com/free_ebookep23

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:11

All right, guys, welcome to the Buyer's Box Podcast. Today we have a special guest, Mr. Brian Short. Uh, he runs the um real estate training labs and does quite a bit of stuff, I believe, here in the real estate space. I think we're gonna get a lot of great content today. How uh our our listeners can you know work buyer leads a little bit better and convert at a higher rate. So, Brian, you got the floor. Tell us a little bit about yourself, tell us about the industry and kind of go from there.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Welcome. I started selling real estate back in 2006. So I've sold as a single agent, a husband-wife team, member of a small mega team. We are crankward upwards of 200 to 230 sides a year out of a team of three. So I know a hell of a lot about and production in the residential space. I've sold a couple restaurants, ice cream shop, um, like microtel, things like that. But most of my knowledge and what I do is in the luxury to mid-luxury market. I find most times agents are trying to plan their business or scale. They're often using a units-based approach, which I think is just ludicrous.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

It is ludicrous. Like, I have single agents that have been in business three to four years breaking 700 and 900 grand. Wow. Like no assistant, no ISA, just single agent working wealthy leads. That makes sense. We we definitely like doing anything else seems like incredibly foolish to me. Like, like I'll have an intake call with a team owner. They did 2.8 million last year, and the team owner took like 290k. Right. Like, why do that? You could just make 5600 700 on your own and keep it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Yeah, we um that is that is definitely a thing, I think, in this our space that you know, my wife and I, Allie, we've definitely went to events and people get on the stage and they tell all these big numbers, and you pull back the curtain, and there's no money there.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

There, yeah, there's no money there, and it's also it's so late for when people do figure this out. Yeah. Like they're five years into building a team to figure out this like this thing doesn't hunt. And I'm not saying no one's running a successful team, but I'm just saying keep the money on the way and figure out how to stack your own nut before you figure out if you're gonna give away deals to other people. Yeah, that just doesn't make a lot of sense. So, yeah, to give a little more context for your audience, in a given 30-day period, I spend maybe 400, 500 grand on ads. I've got clients all over the US, Canada, and Mexico. I offer ads for search engines, whether that's Google or Microsoft. We plow that into an IDX website that creates an automation to send the keyword into the buyer's agent in a loop where you know the consumers are getting new emails. And I try to help uh the agents on the backside understand more elegant ways to pitch and frame and offer and get that business. So, for instance, um I was taking notes in another group about just some of the recent calls that I've had. So Darla Ogle's team's been running my traffic for like three to four years now. She did about 52 million last year. About 17 million of that was through me and PPC, just going to one buyer's agent. Guess how many transactions out of 17 million? Five. Wow. Five. That's amazing. Why do anything else but scale prices? Yeah. If you can get 50 to 70, 80 grand a check.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Why do anything else?

SPEAKER_00 3:49

Why why are what else are you doing that's actually more useful? So I mean, so let's let's say that we just had a quick way to um I mean you you're on podcasts and talking to people, but let's just say we could get a in front of a hundred agents right now.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

Right? And we say, How many hours last week did you work leads? Most of them it's very low. Well, I would bet for a lot of them it's higher than the next number I'm gonna ask. Okay. So so let's say they work leads for five hours or 15 hours or whatever. And then the next question you ask is you say, Okay, how many times last week or how many hours last week did you put together something compelling that makes you look like you're worth charging 50 to 75 grand? Answer that's probably none. None. Yeah. And I've got clients in my email right now complaining that their CPL is 37 and the average lead I'm sending them is 4.9 million. Seems rather than like shouldn't you be not working on the like the cost per lead being the problem, but the problem you you you're charging a quarter million dollars? Like defending why you charge a quarter million dollars should be a larger part of your day. Yeah. Than trying to fare it out going from whatever, 30, 40 bucks a lead to 12 or whatever the hell they want it is. It's never low enough, that's my point.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Like even clients with a 2,000% ROI, a thousand percent ROI, three thousand percent roi, every one of them thinks the cost per lead is too high. Fair.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

Well, let's let's back up a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

It's kind of ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

It's like you you are an agent, you were a husband and wife team. How did you get into the the ad space managing managing this you know the sum of money?

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Yeah, so I'm good at managing um data much more so than I am uh humans. Okay. So in the last, let's say, three years of my career, which ended like a over a decade ago, um, but I've been doing just strictly PBC to real estate sites for the past nine years. In the transition period out of that, I had a model where I would go to agents and I would guarantee a specific piece of growth. So let's say we go to an agent that's doing five million a year, and I go to them and say, hey, I'll take over your ads, your marketing, your house list, your email, your direct mail, your front-end website, your your front-end facing business persona, and I'll get 20% of any amount above the five million that you're used to doing. Okay. So I so I take them to 10 million and I get 20% of the next 5 million that I got them, but they have a base where they know they're gonna hit whatever they hit before, but we're gonna juice the hell out of everything. I'm buying the ads, I'm telling them what to do in response.

unknown 6:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

So that model worked well. I did that with quite a few people. Once you start doing that, one of the things you realize is that you kind of disincentivize, like my client becomes disincentivized for accurate tracking. So when I start doing an audit and I'm like, hold on, like took them to like 13 million, and they're claiming I took them to nine million, they're like, Oh, well, these were deals weren't from you. And I'm like, we had an agreement, you're stiffing like so. Once you start going and getting burned on a couple hundred grand of payouts, yeah, then you start realizing that if you're actually gonna scale this and do this and not just do it through an office where you have access to bookkeeping and records and all that stuff, it became obvious that you just have to charge a fee. Got it. Okay. In search ads are the easiest thing that you can reliably deploy in any market. Most agents are not ready to deploy direct mail at scale. Like when I would take on direct mail for agents, the ballpark expectation to be like three to ten thousand a month in spend. Wow. And for a single agent, I'm sure that was tough. Well, it's still not that hard to get it to go. Like, remember, so we're talking about if you're really, really accurate with your list, it is not that hard to make just a just a belligerent killing out of direct mail. Like, so for instance, like let's say in a county that I was I was operating in for a broker, there's 120,000 people in the county.

unknown 8:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Right? There's ballpark 2,500 people that make enough money, they should hit the hyperaffluent list. There's only another thousand properties in that county with the average attack tax assessed value above the range that we want to hit. So the direct mail house list became about 3,500 units. Got it. Right? So mailing that every month with an eight-page or a 12-page megalog, when you do that over a series of years, there is zero chance you're going on a listing appointment where they haven't seen you a dozen or two, three dozen times. That's fair. Like, is that worth 36 grand a year if the guy's making 1.3 right now? Oh, 100%. Yes. Like easily. Like, like, is is that really like you barely know it? It's like one sale. So it so if it effectively costs this guy one of his low-end sales to get in front of a hundred percent of the people that have the wealth and the affluence in the market. Super easy decision. How did you figure this out? So I studied a lot of so yeah, I did a lot of direct mail. Um, so are you familiar with merge purge?

SPEAKER_02 9:36

No. Please sure.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Uh so let's say you're taking lists and you're trying to combine them uh to get more value. So like I used to do merge purge for different um industries. So, like, let's say for uh um you know uh a Porsche dealer, let's say we're going after keywords that are very, very obvious, like long tail keywords for the specific type of car that the dealer has on the lot.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Right? So if somebody types in 2022 silver Porsche Carrera and you happen to have one of those, you should be bidding on that keyword. Right. Right? That's not merge purge. Merge purge would be buying a list of data that you already know is accurate and then combining it with another list. Got it. So let's say everybody in King County, Seattle, that owns a 2017 to 2022 silver XYZ, mailing them saying you've got people looking, but you can trade in to get the new one. Right? So let's say all waterfront owners with an assessed value on XYZ Lake between 400,000 and 5 million. All people that own a boat that's worth a quarter million or more, but don't own a waterfront property. That's my waterfront buyers list. They care enough about water to own a boat over a quarter million, but they don't currently own waterfront.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Does that make sense? So, like let's say renters with income above 250 grand. Why are they running tons of reasons? Right. Divorced, they've moved, there's been some big life event, they had something go wrong, they're only living in that town while their parent is passing away. Like, there's a bunch of different reasons people do that. But have you noticed when you see most of what agents do, they take a very uh you know, smash it from the top approach.

unknown 11:39

Right?

SPEAKER_00 11:39

They're like, Well, what zip code has the highest turnover? I'm like, uh, is that really your offer? Right. Right? Or, you know, audience equals two-story home, uh, equity equals quarter million to half a million, uh, you know, and then age equals over 65. Like that's old people in two-story homes. Like they're going to move.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

I'm in a retiree market, and that's the bread and butter of my business. So I 100% get that.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Yeah. Yeah. So I feel like in production, the main thing to focus on is have somebody that already knows the math of where it should hunt, so you can get to the point of implementing and you're not wondering if you're doing the right thing.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Right? That's why I start with search. Because if if hypothetically you had a different business, let's say just tomorrow you were a LASIK surgeon in Houston, and somebody's typing in Houston LASIK surgeon that accepts XYZ insurance, and let's say you accept that insurance, if you're not buying that keyword, what the hell else are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Yeah. That that doesn't seem to be very smart for sure.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

You know?

SPEAKER_02 12:53

Okay, so you've gotten really good at creating these really high quality inbound leads. Yeah. What does the agent, what are you telling them to do from there?

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Yeah. Well, let's go first through what they're currently doing. So, what do you think most real estate agents or teams are currently doing? Ten days of pain.

SPEAKER_02 13:13

We're calling the lead at least once a day for the first 10 days. Calls, text, emails. And what do you think that opener sounds like? Uh, I know what our team says. Hey, Brian.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Tell me what they say.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Yeah, hey Brian, this is Andrew Burnett here in Myrtle Beach. We've been the ones sending you some real estate listings here in the local area. Uh, just give me a quick call, see how I could help you to search.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Okay. So open-ended, um, you're identifying their past behavior, and then when do you think that call typically happens? Like most of the time within five minutes, and then the later calls are who knows?

SPEAKER_02 13:49

Yeah, we we have we have two ISAs on staff, so uh that that covers seven days a week. So I I definitely think we've for sure in the first five.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Okay. And what percent of time do you think people answer? Uh, very small, very, very like seven, five, twelve percent, probably something like that. Yeah, okay. So those stats match what I hear a lot from a huge number of people. So I don't think there's a lot of ways to get around some of those front-end stats. Got it. Right? Like if your phone isn't coming up as spam when you call, getting the answer rate to 60% is probably just never gonna happen. No. If your phone is, you know, getting shown as spam when you call, then you're screwed. I mean, you gotta change that and update your phone and whatnot. So I guess the first thing to consider is that you should plan your script for voicemail. You should not plan it for a human. Got it. The most likely thing, so I was an anthropology major, psych Spanish miners, the the most likely thing you can actually get them to do that they're willing to do is open an email. It is not call you back. Got it. Right? So in trunk ordered truncated order, they're not going to answer, so don't try to modify that variable. They're not going to call you back, so don't modify that variable. Try to get them to do something they are willing to do. So open an email. Got it. Right? So if I call and I say, Alice, this is Brian from Andrew Burnett's team in Southern Carolina. Just want to give you a formal welcome to VIP Buyer. We've got a fantastic program for people relocating all across the country. In fact, Andrew created this four years ago, and it's worked so well. We've rolled it out to all of our clients. So, what is included is going to be shown to you in an email. We've got case studies, testimonials, reasons why people hire us and how we're different than other agents. Anyway, love to show you that, give you a quick walkthrough. We can always hop on Zoom if you've got internal questions and things you really want to dig into in the market. Again, check your email from Andrew's team, it'll explain it more. Right? I'm baiting the hook with some type of benefit that they're going to get. Yeah. All right. So when I open frame, I'm going to cover the five things. So here's who I am, here's why I'm calling you. I know what you're looking for. I can help you get it. I have a more elegant way for you to get to your goal. When you ask probing questions, you're not doing that. Oh, for sure. Right? So when people call and say, like, hey Gary, blah, blah, blah. What made you think about that property? Right? That's okay. And if Gary's open, then that might work. But typically you just get shut down because they feel sales pressure. Of course. It's much better to create an example and then show them that example. So for instance, let's say we're doing um like high-rise condo buildings, and I'm responding to a lead, and I know the name of the lead that is come in, right? So let's say that's Sarah and it's uh Aaliyah condo, whatever, somewhere in Hawaii. I'm horrible at pronouncing Hawaiian names.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

No worries. That's my wife's name, believe it or not.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Right. Okay. So so I would call and say something like, um, Vanessa, this is Brian at Renmax. We met you're checking out some condos in Aaliyah. I was just thinking, I could tune up your search with a couple more specifics. So, for instance, we have a filter on my side to do ocean view versus city view. And there's also filters for which properties can be included in Airbnb rental pool and which ones can't. So in the meantime, I'm going to send you the case studies of why people work with me, how I get offers accepted from listing agents, and a couple more ins and outs about the condom market you might know. Keep in mind I represent all listings at all prices for all brokers. So I'd be working exclusively on your side, not the sellers. Love to earn your business. You can get me back on my phone at 702-834-0022. All right, so I'm laying into that a lot of things that she can get, but I'm putting the proof of performance on me, not on my perpetually never-ending questions. Right. If people, if agents were on the other side of it, they would see how awkward it sounds.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

I'm sure. Definitely makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

They would, they would really it it's cringe worthy. So in a lot of cases.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

So how many times would you suggest that they they call and leave that voicemail, leave that in a text?

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Yeah, so good question. So um the 10 days of pain or whatnot, um the reason it works is because it's more than doing nothing, it doesn't mean it works better than what I'm recommending. It's just you can get someone to implement it because you're like, call them 10 times. My thought process is you need an offer every time you call. Don't call without a specific benefit or an offer. If you can't think of something you do that's a benefit to them, you should not be charging them 20, 30, 50 grand.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

Total makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

So in general, think of it this way you in sales, somehow, some way, you're gonna have three, five to seven reach outs per prospect, no matter what industry, no matter what you do. Like in general. So three to five, seven times, ideally, you're timing those times you reach back based on behavioral response only when they're pushing buttons.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

So they're doing things on the website, looking at properties, favorite, and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Yeah. So like a script I wrote just a bit ago in helping a client in Atlanta. Um, the lender, so keep in mind for a lot of my clients, we do lender billing. So let's say the agent's spending two grand, the lender's spending a thousand, or the lender's spending, you know, the same as the agent, and we're cranking four grand total. Yep. So there are a lot of lenders that have even worse sales skills than real estate agents. Right? They just want, well, when the deal's ready, kick it my way. And you're like, well, this is a lot of work to incubate these, you know, hundred something leads a month, and they're not just ready to fill out a loan app. So teaching the lender inside of, I think it was lofty in this case, you can see when consumers are using the mortgage calculator. Right? So making a script based on that trigger that texts the lender and then tells them what to say.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

Oh, smart.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

So it says, Hey Gary, this is Brian from XYZ Financial. Just wanted to give you a quick rundown on how we do the math and can help you buy a house at a lower price. So, in many cases, the seller is very resistant to change the purchase price. But we can actually save you more money over time by doing a rate buy down. I've got a quick two-minute Zim video with between me and the agent at XYZ team. Love to show it to you. If you're interested in saving money when you purchase a house, I'd love to show you how hunting for your mortgage can work. All right, so I'm only delivering that script when they push the mortgage calculator button.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

So you're giving them value based upon their activity. I really like that.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Value and they want specific performance. Right. Right? Like for the most part, if you don't tell people you outperform other people, they will not assume you do. Yeah. Right? Oh, you know, so like if you do a if you do a callback script, and let's say this is the third voicemail you've left, right? Because again, they don't pick up the phone. Right. Right. And you say, Mallory, this is Brian. I just wanted to give you an example of why people hire me. For one, I've been doing this for 16 years. Two, I only onboard three clients at a time. So when we do go see properties, I'm going to be super focused on you. And four, I'm really elegant in the way that I present offers. In fact, I'm going to send you about 30 to 40 testimonials now from listing agents about why they accept my offer, even if it might not be the highest one, because I've been in business longer and my buy side transactions close. So if you've been looking for a Property for over a year and you feel like you're striking out, it could be the agent in the way they're presenting the offer. Check your email now. Love to show you more.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Wow. Like tell them you were better. You're creating you're creating inbound more, so it isn't just the inbound lead from the PPC.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

Do you see what I'm saying? I'm flipping the way that you're trying to do it because like I've got a woman right now that does waterfront boat tours. We have waterfront leads coming in. The script back is Mr. Douglas, this is Brian from Katie's office. Just wanted to give you a formal welcome to the waterfront boat tour. You're checking out properties on Fernan Lake. And one of the things we do is every Friday at five o'clock, we load up the margarita machine, some three ring binders, examples of sales, and new listings. Go tour the lake, see things, ask lots of questions and chat, blah, blah, blah. Well, did you get your ticket? And the guy's like, Oh, well, there's a ticket. Like, what? It's like, oh yeah. Well, you're looking for a waterfront house on this lake, right? And he's like, Well, yeah, because that's what his freaking keyword was. Right. Like, what's your sales scenario as a third-year agent doing that versus trying to break in on 30 grand a month as Zillow leads?

SPEAKER_02 23:13

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Like it's brutal. It's like so like I'm serving up waterfront leads at 18 bucks a pop for a two to three million dollar transaction. Or you're just grinding out the meat grinder with Zillow. Well, let me ask this. So I I've been doing people. Right? That's brutal. Right?

SPEAKER_02 23:32

It's like, yeah, I mean, it's like, oh god, how do you do that? Well, in the Zilla lead, I mean, gosh, our team just picked them up recently. We're not been the biggest fan. I mean, they just pick up the phone and they expect a door opener.

SPEAKER_03 23:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

Right. And I really pride that we're not we're way more than a door opener in the service that we're going to provide and offer. So um around around the leads that you're bringing in, um doing this type of scenario, like what type of conversion rates are you seeing out of like your top performers?

SPEAKER_00 24:06

So let's go over um okay, we'll go over my top numbers, but let me go over the reason everyone else is lying. Okay. For like in fuck everyone. Like, everyone. Um, top performers with me will earn two, three to four thousand percent ROI. Wow. Like, I've got a guy that breaks a million a year and he doesn't spend more than 1,500 a month in ads, and he's done that for three years. Wow. I've got a woman in Tahoe that probably did 750 G's last year, and she spends 1,500 to 2 grand a month. So you don't have to spend a ton of money to do this. Those people are very good at sales, and we have a very defined target market that's affluent.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

But as a ballpark, as a ballpark, for sure, for sure, for sure, spend at least 10% of what you're trying to earn. So, like the last transaction I heard about in in Charleston where you are, my client did 14 million out of one lead. Wow. 10 million dollar sale and a $4 million buy. Like that's pretty juicy when you when you hit it in that way. Um, so what I'm saying is the conversion rate does not matter. Like it the 2,000% ROI matters. Right. Right? Would you be like, hey, we got 5% conversion? It's like, but what does your tax return say? Like, is 5% conversion a boatload of money for you, or is it no money for you? Or it like so don't get anchored on something that you can't take to a bank. Like CPL you can't take to a bank, CPL you can't do a tax return to, CPL you can't buy a retirement, you can't buy stocks in a retirement account, right? So ROI is everything. But let me explain the the way and the math behind it where I think everyone is freaking lying. So have you heard in general that people say, like, oh, well, online leads convert about 1%?

SPEAKER_02 26:05

No, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Okay. In fact, I probably say it to agents all day. And it's sort of kind of true, but here's the problem. So in general, we both know, and we're gonna use simple math here. It's not, I'm not trying to be right or wrong, right? But in general, there's about a million agents.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

There's about four to five million sales a year. Right? Yep. There's a quarter billion leads. There's no way it's a 1% conversion rate. No, it's way less. Right? It couldn't be, right? If there's only if there's only four to five million sales a year and there's a quarter billion freaking leads, there's no way that conversion rates are that high. So people need to forget that. The main reason people don't have ROI is because their audience is poor, because their media buyer is going after low CPL. That's it. There are accounts where like I get hired, and I'm the you know, fifth dude that's been hired by the team in nine years, and we look at their CRM, and the average person makes 50 grand. Yeah, that's not what you want. You make 50 grand a year in Atlanta, you're not buying a house.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

And the team owner has not been told that, and this is his ninth year of buying leads, and no one has told him that. I'm like, you need to have your CPL triple and your affluence go up dramatically. We need people that make 50 grand a month, not people that make 50 grand a year. Like, this is not gonna work. But it's a pain in the ass. Yeah. Like, so um I go to different marketing events and whatnot, and I've learned a lot from different so like the this business has been running nine years, but for three years prior to that, I ran a version of um like CPA offers for LASIK surgeons and chiropractors, dentists, whatever. They would just pay me a bounty for whatever um lead. So a LASIK surgeon and say, like, hey, 200 for everybody that comes into the office, or 300 or whatever that is. Then I go build a campaign to do that, running CPA offers. Guess what the monthly unsubscribe rate is in lead generation as a service? Like nationwide. Whether you smash together dentist, no idea, right, long care, breast augmentation, rhinoplasty, gutter cleaning, like everything smashed together. Guess what percentage of people unsubscribe every month? 68%. Wow. 68%.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

Yeah. And a lot of people are spending money around these leads.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

So why do you think that number's so high?

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Probably not targeting the right person.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

It's the salespeople. Okay. The salespeople have got way too good at selling and not nearly good enough at delivering. Got it. Okay. Like, and everyone's in that addiction loop. Like they want they want to have it turn on in a second and have everything else work, and then no one sat down and been like, well, Dylan, you're like the worst divorce attorney in the market, charging the highest prices. Like maybe this won't work that well. Right. Right. So, like, when everyone in an industry is lying, that becomes a really, really big problem. Because people hire me, their CPL goes from 1015 to 20 to 58. They're used to doing deals at 400 grand, now they're getting leads at 3 million, and they're like, these people don't respond. And I'm like, what to your LP mama question? Like, why would that why would this dude like the welcome sequence that a lot of agents use is the same welcome sequence for a $5 million lead as a $500,000 lead.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

Like you're asking people about a home inspection or if they've been qualified for a loan for a $12 million condo in Aspen. I don't think I'd be asking that guy that. Right. I would ask him which which is which favorite runs he has. Right?

SPEAKER_02 30:38

Like which slope you're going down tomorrow, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Yeah, yeah. I mean, get way more more granular with it. But I but I feel the way that agents are doing it is they're feeling like they will reduce their risk by increasing the volume of leads. They're not aware that poor people opt in 300 to 700% more than wealthy people, and most of the agents' behavior and the way that they respond to leads is off-putting to the lead. Yeah. And then they respond with like hire someone else. And then, you know, again, I'm the ninth person that they've hired, and it's, you know.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

Yeah, I I've I've been doing PPCs pretty much my whole career. And I've definitely experienced that, oh my gosh, lead you know, lead cost needs to be X. And I've definitely learned over time that trying to be very rigid around that hasn't been as successful as, hey, focus on getting these types of leads to our team.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Yeah, and understanding where you can win where it doesn't whack your credit card.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

So for instance, like a really, really big win that I see consistently with teams is age-based lead routing. So what do you think your probability of so let's say you've got a team in Miami and you've got two agents that are under 25 and you've got two agents that are over 64? What do you think the probability is of the 25-year-old agent closing the 55 plus leads? Slim to none. What about the Bitcoin bros, cocaine addicts, high-rise waterfront condo? Yeah. Give that to the 25-year-old.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

Yeah, they're gonna connect.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

Right. What is the cost of that? Oh no nothing. No, yeah. Nothing. Right? It costs nothing. How? Like that, that that's not. I mean, it the some of these optimizations are just so frickin' obvious. When you start thinking about it and you're like, hold on. Shit, I could set up, like, let's say in Lofty, we can set up a lead routing um, you know, rule for a particular source, tie uh, you know, attach a particular source to an entire campaign, and then Jessica is only doing the relocation leads. Gary is only doing 55 plus and step down single story XYZ, and Mallory is doing all the high-end condos, blah, blah, blah. That makes sense. You can you can set that up in 20 minutes, it automates for perpetuity, and you just tripled your average closing rate.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

See, and and we used to we started out around Robin, Brian gets lead, gets lead, Neon XK gets lead. Uh, now we're doing pawns.

SPEAKER_03 33:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

Right?

SPEAKER_00 33:24

So, you know, the agent only stays in there for a while before someone can claim it.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

Well, so the agent only way they can claim the lead is if they have a two-minute or more conversation with them, um, converting around real estate.

SPEAKER_03 33:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

And we've definitely seen our um conversion rate go up from there because we realized pretty early on, and back up kind of what you said is maybe I had your next cell in my name, and vice versa, because you know, at the end of the day, this is a relationship-based business, and you know, we're we're not all for everyone, right? Um but we've not gone that step further of actually routing it based upon exactly who they are.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Yeah, and it's not um it's not as easy depending on the CRM. There can be some CRMs where that's way harder than than others. But depending on the CRMs. Yeah, yeah. When you have something as elegant as FUB, yeah, there are ways to do that. Yeah. Um, have you ever tried practiced cross-gender callbacks? You'll always get a bump. You'll always get an impr increase with cross-gender callbacks. Have men call women and women call men by far.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

Really?

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Quickest thing. Yeah, if you if you're just like, I just want to see something change. Like, here are all my metrics. I'm calling consistently enough. Brian, make the freaking numbers different. Cross-gender callbacks.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

We've noticed in hiring ISAs that female ISAs have performed better. And I think it's because I'm in the south.

SPEAKER_03 34:56

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

Right? Um, gosh, uh a dude gets on the phone talking to a random online lead and they're pretty quick to hang up. But yeah. They they might listen to what the the sweet sounding lady on the phone might say. Yep. Yeah, so that makes a ton of sense. So okay, so we we've we've created leads. We're we're giving them a different offer.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

Yep. Ideally, your offer is baked into whatever keyword they had or whatever outcome desire that they want, you're wrapping your offer into that.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

And then anything else that you're like telling, you know, whether it's a single agent or teams that you're meeting with, talking to, like any other, you know, golden nugget that you're like, hey, do this.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Well, um, I would say fundamentally, understanding the power of multivariates. Okay, a lot of times agents are not really seeing that. They want there to be one component, like one conversion event, and then a volume knob. So let's say, for instance, the the agent comes in and they're they're spending two grand a month with me, and 12 months later they make a quarter million. And that's a pretty reasonable number. That doesn't blow my mind. That's not that's not new. That's uh that's fine, right? That's that's okay. And they go, okay, spend three grand. I'm like, okay, that sorta kind of makes sense, right? You made a quarter million, but then I ask, how much did your lender make? Well, I don't know. Like, okay, let's just do the math, right? How many cash sales did I send you? Half of them were cash buyers, the rest were lender, blah, blah, blah. We find out the lender made 50 to 60 grand. I'm like, could your lender absorb a five to one ROI? Well, I don't know. Like, well, why don't you ask your lender how much ROI they have right now? Well, I talked to my lender, they only make 50% ROI on Zillow. Like, okay, so we can offer him five to one ROI, I'll take care of the billing, he's already made the money. Right. So that's what I mean. That's a multivariate. Like we're scaling with the lender's money and proving it to the lender he's not gonna lose his ass. Smart. That's really that's really good business. That just doesn't, you know, like we could just spend more, like that's fine, but is that really the most optimal thing to do? So when going through revenue, typically the workflow for figuring out like where to harvest more revenue is first, is it like top line revenue? So how many dollars came in top line? Was it all buy side or was it sell side? If you don't have at least 20% sell side or even 20% referral sell side, if you're pounding relocation, you're missing a lot of revenue. Yeah, nationwide, my average lead's 58 years old, buying 65% above median. So very few people in that range are renting. Oh, for sure. Right? Very, very few range in that in that range renting. Uh, then split is the revenue Google or Microsoft is the revenue in state out of state. After that, it would be is rent revenue, uh does it look like revenues? Um, and we shouldn't be doing like fair housing violations. I'm not saying we're doing fair housing violation on the front end, but on behavioral response, I don't think it's a fair housing violation. Right. But you might see that. Yeah, you might see some math and go like, oh, wow, like I'm slaughtering it in Microsoft relocation and I'm losing my ass on you know, new construction on Google or zip codes on Google or whatnot. Right.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

We've uh you know, I I'm I'm glad you brought up the um you know referral. It was something really early on in my career. I I just never chased, I didn't I didn't put a lot of thought around it. And um my wife, you know, came into our business about four years ago from from a different career, and she goes, I just don't understand why you're not getting all these ancillaries. And she just saw referrals as an ancillary, and she built out this massive referral network, and we've sent out probably 350 leads in the last six months.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

And it's it's like it's already there, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:25

Yeah, yeah, and what it's putting to the bottom line is just like, man, why did I not do this 10 years ago?

SPEAKER_00 39:32

Totally. So totally, and and things like that can really, really compound. Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

Now we're now we're getting inbound leads.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

Yeah. I mean, like for one, if if you're not running lead gen, your growth business growth is probably not where it needs to be. Um, if you're gonna hire someone lead for lead gen, try to really hire somebody like me that knows what the hell they're doing and has a high probability of success and a very low cancellation rate. My cancellation rate's about four point, I'm looking at it right now, four point eight percent. Wow. So I'm in an industry where 65, 70% of people churn, and I'm at 4.8. Right. And canceling is a call, email, text, like poof, it's over. Like if you ever won out, it's all over the day you say it. Like there's no, it's not hard to get in and out with me. It's a pain in the ass to build this, but it's not hard to pause or cancel. Um, but yeah, not not having that set up, not understanding affluence, not understanding how to scale with the lender's money, which you don't have to, but you certainly can, and you're kind of crazy if you don't.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

And then understanding from there what parts of it are you really, really missing the sweetest part of the cream. So, like for instance, nearly all agents, if they could, they would take a listing instead of a buy-side rep. Most for the most part. You go to their website, you click the sell page, it looks like 15,000 other sell sites. It doesn't have one video, one testimonial, one proof of production, one example of a house you sold that another agent failed to sell. It's a frickin' home value form that everybody else has. And you're trying to charge people 70 grand to do this. Right. And it's like, and to the consumer, it looks like I don't want to fill out a website because I don't know why I do what I do. I don't have any proof of what I do. Like, right, if I can make a 34-page document about me managing PBC campaigns, I think a listing agent should be able to make a 12-page document about listing a house for $100,000. And gosh, right? Like, I mean, I'm charging a couple hundred bucks a month. Yeah. And the agent's like, oh yeah, it's 90 grand to list your house. Like, for what though? Like, what do they really get? Why don't you just put that on your damn site? Right. Don't think they're gonna contact you to ask about that. Put that right on your freaking site. Put as much ammunition as you possibly can on your site.

SPEAKER_02 42:02

Well, it's like a wall, it's it's your it's you know, and it's your brick and mortar anymore.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

It it is. It but the the number of agents that have actually spent time on it would blow your mind. Yeah, it's pretty low. They'll spend a hundred grand on ads before they write their bio. So true. You know, and it's like, okay, well, you bio is not gonna take that long. And and now, I mean, uh, pretty much everyone on the planet now is you know a world-class copywriter, whether it's Claude or ChatGBT or something. Yeah, I mean, now writing's actually not that hard. It was way harder to do this 10 years ago. 10, yeah, 10, 15 years ago. You'd actually it's a lot harder to write long-form sales copy.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

We we launched a site and we got quoted a number to get 10 pages made, and I was like, whoa, that's really high. And Claude wrote out the you know, wrote out everything in about three days, and I'm like, hmm, that's great. You know, so I you know, people that aren't leveraging AI in this market, to me, it just blows my mind.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

So yeah, and and at the most basic minimums, some things aren't being done. So, like the for instance, the first campaign I build for all clients, I call personal branded. So it's your name and variations of your name. Most people have never had that set up, even that have other managers running, like they're not even bidding on their own name. And it would probably be such a low cost per per click. Right. And it's an incredibly expensive mistake to miss it. So it for whatever for whatever open houses you're doing, business cards you have in friends, uh, you know, wallets, like how many times do you hope to God someone mentions your name? Like it's a lot, right? You hope people remember you and know you. And Dave Ramsey's stepping in front of that for 65 cents. Right? And and you're like, well, uh like I didn't want to spend six. 65 cents. It's not the 65 cents. It's that most of the time agents don't have like the spreadsheet accountability, kind of like ruthless mind trap that I kind of plow through when I'm building these things. And then they just miss these things that are just super obvious.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

Oh, and and the it's probably some of the lowest hanging fruit that you can go after by far. Yeah. So let me let me ask this. So, you know, again, been doing PPC a long time. I think a lot of our listeners, you know, they're doing some type of leads in some way, whether it's open houses, PPCs name it. Early on, I my you know, I thought the mech mechanism was more leads. So when I first started my team, uh, I thought I had to give each person a hundred leads a month.

SPEAKER_03 44:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

And I, you know, and then when they left, I was like, well, I would just take them. So there's a time in there was a time in my career I was taking like three or four hundred leads a month.

SPEAKER_03 44:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:56

To my to myself. So if someone was to come to you and say, Brian, you know, I you know, I I I heard you on the podcast, sounds like you really know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 45:04

Right. How much do I buy? Right? How much do I buy? Yeah. Well, um, so let's go let me ask you the question in another way and switch the industry.

SPEAKER_01 45:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

Okay. So you are a LASIK surgeon. You can do, I'm just trying to make simple math here, five procedures a day. Right? Yep. You have one chair. You're doing one procedure a day. How much more scale do you have? You have 400% more bodies you could put in the chair.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:42

Right? For simple math. Right? So knowing your capacity for units would be the first thing. Okay. Backing it into math would be the next thing. But again, the danger is thinking in units. Yeah. Right? Because it's so could it could we take an agent and have them do one deal a month at two million? Can we keep their brain together? Yes. We'd hope so. But yes, right. Can they do one deal a month at two million?

SPEAKER_02 46:22

My fallout cost has gone off. I'm so sorry. That's all right. Let's see here. I think I got pulled back up. Yeah, that makes total sense.

SPEAKER_00 46:32

Okay. Can they do five deals a week at a hundred grand? No. No. Their head will smoke, right? So is dollars the goal or is units the goal? Dollars is the goal. Right. Right? So not units. So said it another way, let's say you're a financial advisor and you charge 1% for assets under management and your clients are wealthy. How many clients do you need before you're as wealthy as your average client? Makes sense. 100 clients.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:03

Right? So if your client on average is worth $5 million and you charge 1% asset under management, and you have a hundred clients, you will have the similar net worth as your audience base. So if your audience base is really, really wealthy, you don't need that many leads, assuming you can get them to believe you. But I would say most mental capacity, like 30 to 50 leads a month, like a lot of people are that's going to be enough. But again, the I think a huge devil in the details is just assuming that people have the same labor capacity. Right. Okay. I mean, some agents are fried with you know two leads a week. They're like, oh my God, I got so much to do. And others like, give me two an hour and like let me hunt. I don't know. So I think that's a very, very hard one. But it it should be like as a team owner, uh, the easiest way to set this up is you have two credit cards. You have your credit card for fixed operating expenses, your office, your lease, your internet, your MLSDs, whatever. You have a credit card for your dynamic variables. Every quarter, you know if you're making money on any of your dynamic variables. So credit card two is your direct mail, your PPC, your whatever, your Zillow spend, whatever. Every quarter you gotta know are you cash up or cash down on that. And then what's the rolling all time? Rolling 12, cash up, cash down. And then if there isn't cash on those, was it your implementation? Right. So if direct mail, you're like, yep, goose egg. I spent 20 grand in direct mail, nothing back. Okay. Did you have an offer? Was it your list? Like, what was the wrong mechanism? Like, where did that get mechanized wrong? Because nearly everything, if you see some of these top agents, can be done really well. There are people absolutely killing it on different, you know, different mechanisms.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

There's so many ways to be successful in this industry.

SPEAKER_00 49:04

Yeah, there are, but I I think people try too many. Yeah. Like I would say no more than three to get to half a million, and no more than five when you're breaking a million in GCI. And I see people at, you know, seven to nine things and they're making two hundred grand. Yeah, that seems like that's too many. Like that, that's way that's too confusing. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 49:29

So and then that 30 to 50, like how long are you telling the agent to use to run that for? I guess the better way to ask that.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

Yeah. Um I mean, until you have negative sentiment, run everything. Okay. Right? Like if a lead's still communicating with you two years in and and you know they haven't sold their you know family dentist practice yet, but they want to move from Connecticut to Vero Beach, Florida. I wouldn't give up on them just because you know it's it doesn't seem like it's there. Um, so for instance, in your market, uh, John uh John Smith, he's in Charleston, um, like he literally just did 14 million in one lead. I sent him two and a half years ago. That's amazing. You know, so that's there. Um I would say in a general sense, five to ten percent of an audience in PPC can be in 90 days or under, and then the rest are gonna bell curve nine months. I think there's two core different markets there's a take it market and a make it market. So a take it market, you're taking your money there. So that would be like Maui, Aspen, Colorado, right? Real high-end resorty, like Breckenridge, Colorado, high-end resorty mountain towns. They already simultaneously own three, five, or seven other homes. A make it market would be Spokane, Washington, Cincinnati, Ohio, Houston, Atlanta, you're making your money there. Salt Lake City, Utah, you're making your money there. Park City, Utah, you're taking your money there.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 51:08

Take it markets push out three to six months.

SPEAKER_01 51:12

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

If you look at the curve of like, well, when should the revenue come in relative to the spend? Usually, if you can, if you set up like your January on the left, I don't know if your clients are seeing me in reverse, but like January on the left and December on the right, front run your PPC spend 90 days. Like run harder ahead of the sales curve by 90 days.

SPEAKER_02 51:36

Okay. That's smart.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Pretty reasonable way to do it. Like cranking budget and anchorage in December is probably not your best option.

SPEAKER_02 51:46

Uh November, December, we always lower our ad spin. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:51

We're we're fighting, you know, Black Friday, you know, sales and well, I don't see I I don't see it in in that way, meaning like I barely see a difference in seasonality. Like, I because my like nearly all my clients, something like 99% of my clients, are bid cap limited by their budget. They're not limited by how many clicks there are with the humans. I'm just saying, in terms of the warmness of the human relevant to the time, if budget's a precious thing, we should be trying to spend it in the most elegant way we can.

SPEAKER_01 52:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:26

And watch for um watch for missing the desire. So, like, for instance, let's say if you're running a bunch of niche specific neighborhoods in Palm Springs in July, what do you think happens to the intent? Is it mostly buy side intent? Or what's my house worth sell side intent? Let's say you change nothing about the keywords.

SPEAKER_02 52:52

Um, probably in July at sell side.

SPEAKER_00 52:54

Yeah. Yeah. No doubt. It's hot. Way more sell side. It's it's hot and it just makes sense. Yeah. But a lot of times agents don't adjust anything. Like they don't adjust anything.

SPEAKER_02 53:12

They just keep running the same thing all year round.

SPEAKER_00 53:15

They keep responding to the lead the same way no matter what. Yeah. You know, and it's like like I've got a client where we were doing a list, and it was basically anyone who owns a property in uh La Quinta and Palm Springs, this, that, the other, but had a Canadian mailing address. And then he did like a it was like a proof of production letter with three recent transactions he had with other clients that were out of state.

SPEAKER_01 53:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 53:44

He got, I think he got two deals out of it. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:48

Mailed like 400 people, got two deals. I'm like, and then he never did it again. I talked to him like nine months later. I'm like, why didn't you bang on that thing 10 more times?

SPEAKER_01 53:55

I'm like, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 53:58

Yeah, but we all do that, we all do this stuff. That's why it helps to work with people. Like, I know that there's a lot of people that they want to manage the ads themselves, or like, hey, will you teach me how to do it or will you set it up for me and then you know let like let me do it? I'm like, hell no. Like, I don't teach, I'm gonna execute it for you. If we do it together, the chance that you don't malfunction and the chance you actually get ROI long term is so much higher than if you try to self-manage. Yeah. Like, how many people do you know that break half a million a year self-managing PPC?

SPEAKER_01 54:29

Very, very, very few.

SPEAKER_00 54:31

I've probably got more clients in my list than have ever done it in the entire freaking planet on their own. I you know, I right and people are like, I'm gonna take a course and save the money. And I'm like, holy shit. Yeah, like you're going from an 80% probability rate to a 2% probability rate, acting like that's a similar event.

SPEAKER_02 54:53

I tried setting our setting one up one time, and uh I realized pretty quickly it wasn't a good use of my time or a good return of my dollars spent.

SPEAKER_00 55:03

Yeah, and just the the amount that you don't see your own stuff when you're so close to it.

SPEAKER_01 55:11

Oh, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 55:13

Oh, I was setting up just like homes for sale Myrtle Beach and driving into this landing page on a on a site with you know homes and myrtle beach and thought, yeah, this is gonna win.

SPEAKER_00 55:23

Yeah, and yeah, and and largely that that can still do well, but over time, the the number of times that I've tried to not spend to hire someone have not really worked out. Like I have to have an accountant, I have to have somebody that I pay that handles things that are just not I I can only do so many things really, really well. I I even tried to I think the the biggest thing that agents like if we could give agents any uh like really quick advice, it would be understand feedback loops, try to make sure you're extremely clear on what benefit your current client got, and frame that to make your next client want to hire you. Because if you're not doing that, you are missing the entire bloody loop. Yeah. Like I've had clients like so I was just walking a client through some dialogue the other day, and he's not quite as ballsy. Like, I'm pretty ballsy as a salesperson, I'll I'll be saying right at it. Yep. So he's talking about a guy that's looking at a a property, and it's probably near as makes no difference. I don't know, 10 million, 8 million, 12 million expensive. Yeah, whatever. What's the difference if it's that high? Right, and the guy's kind of like, well, but if we could get it instead of 10 million, if we could get it for 9 million, you know, the da da da da da da da da. So I'm walking him through it. I'm like, so you've got a client who's a rational guy who wants a deal while he simultaneously owns five other properties.

SPEAKER_02 57:02

Why have you not written it up already?

SPEAKER_00 57:04

Well, my point being is it's not rational. It's that it it's perceived by that man, the buyer, that he's being rational because he's going after value. So, how do you take that rationality and flip it into something that can work in the side of that guy's head? Right? So then I told him what I've learned by doing that. So I've learned that if you say something like, you know, I totally see your point, 10% would make a big difference, and that's certainly there. But where you are in this scope of life, let's just say hypothetically you're 65 now. You got 10 good years left. If you burn 30 of them, which is 30% of your time on this planet, what's the one million compared to your 40 million net worth versus the 30% of time you got left? Right. Like, is it really worth guaranteeing that you miss playing with the kids at the lake house and throwing the stick for the Labrador and inviting your family over and making memories? Like, are you certain that that million is gonna make enough difference to delay it three years?

SPEAKER_03 58:14

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 58:16

And the sales person is.

SPEAKER_00 58:33

Right. There's a lot of people that change their perception after going to a couple funerals. Right? Like, we don't know how long we have.

SPEAKER_01 58:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00 58:49

We really don't. So trying to make sure that you're not I'm not saying like being super manipulative, but let's say let's say you're trying to remove sales pressure on a listing appointment. What do you think is the easiest way to remove sales pressure on a listing appointment?

SPEAKER_02 59:09

I just uh asked for the business.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

I don't I don't know what what's your well so let's say Andrew, I'm meeting three other agents and I really want to see you know how much you charge. Will you come over and walk through my property, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right? What's the easiest way to remove the sales pressure doing that? Um I change the terms of the agreement.

SPEAKER_01 59:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:34

Right? Okay. The terms of the agreement that are scariest to the seller are the length of the agreement and the out. Got it. Change that.

SPEAKER_02 59:44

Easy to get in, easy to get in. Mr.

SPEAKER_00 59:46

Timmons, that's fantastic. You're interviewing other agents. I totally understand. And I think that's in common with the vast majority of savvy sellers out there. They want to see what agents do, what agents charge, and the ins and outs of agreements. So before I show up, let me just explain one thing to you. My clients are only with me because they want to be with me, and if that ever changes, our agreement can be over in as quick as an hour. Got it. Right? So, like, how scary is it to sign my agreement when you can get out in an hour? Well, the other guy's a six-month agreement. Right. And he might need it.

unknown 1:00:22

Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:23

But like, like there is so much missing in sales persuasion in the way that agents are interacting with leads. It is mind-blowing. Like, I'll go into the CRMs and I'll listen to some of the calls, and I'll hear a woman and I hear a dude in the background, and I don't hear an agent asking for that other person's email or to tune up their account to talk to both decision makers.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:49

And I'm like, oh my God. You're mind blowing every time I hear it. It's like, what? Yeah. It's a lot of this stuff isn't that hard, but if your leads don't have affluence, you're screwed. If you target the wrong thing, you're screwed. Right? There's a lot of ways that these things don't work out. For sure. Lots of ways. But they're relatively identifiable and fixable.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:18

Agree. Well, Brian, I really want to be respectful of your time. Um absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:24

I think that helped. I mean, I I we didn't really have a uh schedule or a plan, but we ripped through a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:30

No, I think we did, and and I think a lot of the listeners, especially if they've been listening to us from like day one, like we're getting now down to like these deeper discussions, um, to where I think a lot of our listeners can kind of understand and comprehend this at a higher level than maybe from day one, which is really nice. But sure. If anyone if anyone wanted to work with you, Brian, um, how could they make contact with you? What's the best?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:54

Yeah, so let's go over baseline expectations. Like first, I expect you to spend 10% of what you're trying to make.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:00

Right. So if you're gunning for a quarter million, I expect you to spend $25,000. We chop that up monthly. It doesn't matter uh how you do it, right? You could have five agents um that want to make half a million, and all five agents are gonna spend a thousand bucks each, and you hire me, and one person hires me, and then we just scale up from there. That's fine. Like I don't care how we run the money, it just has to be legally compliant. But realestatraining labs.com is my website, so they can go through you know webinars, case studies, opt-in forms, all that kind of stuff. Um, but in general, they should expect to do this for a 12-month rolling period. I don't hold people to that, meaning everyone has a rolling month-to-month with me. If you ever want to cause, you know, pause, cancel, throttle up, throttle down, that's fine. I don't stick people in agreements they want to get out of. Right. But that's the main thing, making sure that people understand that it's a very long-term thing. They might find me abrasive or blunt, but that's okay. They'll probably learn a hell of a lot. And when they watch some of my scripts and videos and hear me doing dialogue, they'll probably go, oh shit, it's way better than what we're saying. So I can fix the affluence of the leads coming in, which is the biggest thing for most agents, because nationwide, again, my my average lead's 58 years old, buying 65% above median. So usually way juicier sales prices, right? And making sure that everything is running long term. A lot of these accounts I've been running four, five, six, seven years straight. So I don't set it up to be like, hey, it'll work for a couple months and then break all the time, and you know, the client cancels after two months anyway. So what's the difference? I build these things to run like out the gate for years. Like a normal build for me is 500, 600 campaigns at once. Wow. Yeah. Like I'm going up against guys that build three, four, or seven. And I'm like, yep, I just popped out a 727 yesterday. Like it's a lot of freaking campaigns, but that thing can run forever. How are uh manually, dude? Manually. How are you managing it? Manually, like I'm not doing it dynamic, I'm doing it old school. Like, I learned how to build search ads in 2007, and I have not changed the way I do it. I build the exact same way now, 20 years later, as I did the when I first learned how to do this.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:20

How are you how are you and people tell me it changes all the time?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:22

They're like, oh, PPC changes. You need to do anything different. I'm like, dude, I haven't changed a damn thing in 20 years. And it's working just fine. Yeah, it's where it's it's like the only thing that works. Like understanding the true structure of how the ads auction functions is a missing element for a lot of people that go with auto-optimize or whatever the new fangled thing is with Google.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:46

Yeah. Yeah, I think Google's all the time pushing out something new to I mean, just to spend more money on ads, I think, at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:55

So yeah, I mean, there's a certain amount of data that you want to feed back, and there's a lot of data you don't. Right. And not all data costs the same. I mean, that's almost another, I know you gotta jump, but like positive and negative spend attribution, most people aren't doing that. They're only doing positive spend attribution, they don't even know what the hell I'm talking about. Like the people at Google, usually I talk to them and they're like, What the hell do you mean? And I'm like, Oh Jesus. Like, okay, how are you spending to not get someone in the audience? Right. And clients going, Oh, I'm targeting this. And I'm like, You're doing half of that's half. Should be doing, yeah. Yeah, that's not the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:41

Okay, so clients can contact your website.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:44

Yeah, real estate training labs.com is the site. And then, yeah, if you're dead serious and you want to make a hell of a lot of money and increase your your income, then I'm the guy. But if you're gonna fart around or blame the leads or whatever, I mean, I've probably got somebody in your market right now making many, many, many hundreds. Of thousands of dollars, and I could put you in touch with them too. Like, I won't let you tell me the leads suck. I'll be like, Well, talk to this chick. She made 800 grand last year and she's been in business four years. Yeah, that's amazing. Tell me the leads suck. Right. You know.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:15

Well, Brian, I really appreciate you coming on the show. And uh hopefully, uh, we can be in touch in the future.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:21

Absolutely. Reach out if you need anything, happy to help.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:23

Thanks, Brian. All right, see Andrew. Bye.