Ep. 16 - When Your Pain Finally Outgrows Your Fear

First responder mental health and the silence around it is where this conversation begins — with Tim Roberto, a Marine Corps veteran with 19 years of sobriety who turned his own history into something that helps people in uniform ask for help without losing anything in the process. He founded Stomping Out the Stigma, a nonprofit that connects first responders and veterans with licensed, culturally competent therapists. No insurance. No HR. No agency reporting. First name only, and someone calls you back within 24 hours.

Tim started using at 11, worked his way through everything available between then and 16, and got sober at 44. What finally moved him wasn't a program or a person — it was a quiet realization that his pain had grown bigger than his fear. For years, fear-based decisions had only produced more fear, the same drain cycling through the same dark. Recovery came through 12-step literature, morning routines, and what he calls a complete psychic change — not something he can fully explain, just something he stopped trying to figure out and started living instead.

He grew up one of five boys, raised by an authoritarian Italian father who had been sent back to Italy alone at eight years old for his education, and a deeply codependent English mother. Tim spent most of his childhood trying to be anything other than himself. The episode moves through his early years, his time in the Marine Corps, the moment in a Burger King parking lot at 16 when cocaine found him and he knew immediately it was different, and the first sober Christmas when he finally told his father he loved him — a scene that takes a long time to get through and is worth every second.

Jill brings her own thread in — her father, her husband's death, the boundary she set in her early 50s that she couldn't have set before, and what it finally felt like to be parented after spending most of her life without it. Both of them return again and again to the same ground: showing up for yourself in the morning before the day takes over, watching patterns instead of words, staying off the victim triangle, and choosing response over reaction. None of it is abstract. All of it is earned.

Palm Beach County has one of the highest death by suicide rates among first responders in any county in Florida. Nationally, more first responders die by suicide than in the line of duty. If you or someone you know is in uniform and struggling, Tim can be reached at sotsinc24@gmail.com or sotsinc.org.

Contact Jill K. Bershad, LMHC, CAP

• Email: jill@jillbershad.com 
• Website: jillbershad.com
• Instagram: @jillkbershad.lmhc
• Facebook: jillkbershad

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hi friends, I am Jill Burshad, and this is the Present Moment Project. Come with me on a journey of healing, transformation, and curiosity. I'm a licensed mental health counselor, a Reiki master, a hypnotherapist, a sound healer, and an EMDR trauma therapist who also is a widow. I have learned how to move through life with grace in the aftermath of tragedy. I have learned how to use these modalities through my own healing journey. I hope you're listening, and I know this podcast will help you on your healing journey as well. It's not always easy when you too can laugh again. I look forward to having you along this wild ride with me. So here we go. Let's get started. Hello, friends. I am Jill Burshad, and I'm in the studio today with Tim Roberto. Hi, Tim. How are you?

SPEAKER_04 1:01

I'm blessed.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Tim is one of my favorite people, and this is what I'm gonna say. No formal bio today. I just am such a fan, and I just have to repeat this story on camera, which is I was here last week, I was talking to Janine right over here at this table, and I said, Oh my gosh, I have to schedule my friend Tim Roberto. He's so amazing, he's so dynamic, he's so godlike. No, we're gonna get we're gonna get to that in a minute. We're gonna no pressure. Um, and then you called in that moment, in that moment, and you and I, neither one of us believe in coincidences. That definitely happened, and like it's been days, and you're here now today.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

So we made it happen. But I just want to say, for those of you that don't know Tim, he is the uh community outreach for Beachway, which is a treatment center. He also has quite a soft spot for veterans because you too are a veteran, correct? Yeah, Marines. You are correct. Marines, yeah. And um, you started a organization charity, non-for-profit, correct, right? Called um Stomp Out the Stigma.

SPEAKER_04 2:07

Stomping. Stomping Out the Stigma. Yeah, SOTS. Because us military people are first responders. We hate acronyms. SOTS.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

Oh, that's funny. Okay, yes. Is that true?

SPEAKER_04 2:22

Oh my god, they a military for this is an acronym for everything. They don't even say full words anymore. Yeah, yeah, that's true. You can do a whole sentence in acronyms.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

I've never really thought about that. Can you do one for me right now? Can you actually say a sentence for me right now in all acronyms?

SPEAKER_04 2:38

I'm not that I'm not that smart. You gotta you gotta be like in it every yeah you gotta be in it every you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:45

Yeah. It's kind of like if I knew another language and I didn't speak it for a really long time, I'd probably get sloppy. Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Yeah. You know, um, this is so true. I asked Tim to be on my podcast. I asked you to be on my podcast because I do think you're an amazing human being. I really do. And um how do I say this politically correct? There are a lot of people in the world who there's a lot of people in the world, let's just put it that way. And some people are always thinking about others, some people are always thinking about themselves, but you have really made it your mission to really take your challenging times, your adversity, and you have turned it around into the most beautiful thing. Would you agree with that? You have, you really have, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_04 3:39

Do you want to talk about that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

So uh Tim was just telling me, I know you've been in recovery a long time, but you were just telling me that it's you just celebrated 19 years.

SPEAKER_04 3:49

19 years, April 15th, 2007.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Mosel, my friend.

SPEAKER_04 3:53

Amen, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:54

Yeah, amen.

SPEAKER_04 3:54

And I'm also known around here in South Florida as Tax Day Tim.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

What? Oh, April 15th.

SPEAKER_04 4:02

So she caught back up, right? So I always use it as an icebreaker because I speak a lot.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

Uh yes.

SPEAKER_04 4:08

I get to speak a lot, so I introduce I'm also known as Tax Day Tim. And some people chuckle, and some people look at me like, well, take me a second, but I got it. I get it, but some people never come back. Uh so I go, all right, you don't pay your taxes, and the people who chuckle right out of gate, you pay your tax, and it's a great icebreaker, and everybody but I had that happen to me. I was in a men's meeting, you know, that's all I that's all I attend in 12-step fellowship is men's meeting, and they're all my meetings are literature-based. And it's not that of disrespecting any part of the process or people or but I don't need to hear about your weed whacker. You know what I mean? I need I need this, I need to be in this literature and the solution. Because I have a I have a fatal foe, you know, that would really wants to just do me in.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

Talk about that.

SPEAKER_04 4:57

And it did for most of my life.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

So talk about that, if you wouldn't mind.

SPEAKER_04 5:00

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

Let's talk about what what what has made you who you are today, Tim? Let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_04 5:08

Authenticity.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

Did were you here when I just said this a few minutes ago? And we talked about this. You know, I interviewed David Cohen last week. Do you know David Cohen? Yeah. And we talked, he's amazing, by the way. Yeah. And um he's doing so many things. Did you know he has um a company? You would really find this so interesting for first responders, uh, a pickleball like organization, uh-huh. And they raise money and it goes to where it needs to go.

SPEAKER_04 5:42

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:44

Yeah, I think we've spoken a lot over the years. I've known for a very long time, and I think the closest we ever got one day, and he goes, I'm gonna tell you a little bit about something I that I do, maybe that was it, and it we never took it past that uh from our last conversation.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

So you should talk to him about that. It's very interesting, and it's so similar to something that you're doing, which we're gonna get to. But getting back to what I think I just said on this podcast with him is I said authenticity is my love language.

SPEAKER_04 6:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

That is my love language.

SPEAKER_04 6:18

Well, it trumps everything.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

It does, it really does.

SPEAKER_04 6:21

Love trumps everything and anything. Um, I don't know any other thing that that can can outdo love. But I also at the on the same or the other side of that coin, I don't know anything that can outdo alcoholism or drug addiction or mental health unless unless you have a complete psychic change.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

I want to hear all about that.

SPEAKER_04 6:42

That's just me.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

I know.

SPEAKER_04 6:44

You know, because so many of us, including me, I'm a club member too. It's human nature, right? We we try that, we try to.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

A club member with lots of perks. With a lot of perks.

SPEAKER_04 6:57

But we try this, we try that, we try that, we try this, we try him, we try her, we did it, did it. It just goes on and on and on. And you know, I'm irritable, restless, discontent, um, anxious, future tripping. You know, if I'm um trying to put myself somewhere physically that physically isn't here yet. It just drives me wonky. You know, I get I get nuts. And if I'm not doing that, I'm living in the past.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

Right. Yeah. So I Tim has said many, many times how like we'll be talking about something, or I'll hear you talking to somebody else, and you say, Oh, I I don't, I don't know. I'm just always very much in the moment. And you just reminded me that you do say that. You right? And then I said, Well, you're just perfect for this podcast because it's called the Present Moment Project Podcast. So let's talk about what made you who you are today. You are so altruistic and just very you're just so loving and just willing to help a friend or foe, really, anybody, right?

SPEAKER_04 8:06

Yeah, it doesn't matter to me.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

So tell me, tell me, tell me a little bit about little Tim and how the alcohol and drug use started. And and by the way, this is such uh this is this is such a tangent. Have you seen the show Euphoria? Okay. So my son says to me the other day, Mom, you have to watch Euphoria. You have to, you would love it. It's so much drama. And I only watched one episode, and if if it doesn't catch my attention quickly, I kind of move on to the next thing. I may give it the a second a second try. But what really stuck with me about that first episode that I watched last week or a few days ago was that this girl, the main character, she had like I think ADD and maybe OCD, and it was very late at night, so I can't remember exactly. But how that turned her into like a major drug addict, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Because it w you know, she became she was she was self-medicating. And I I don't remember if like the parents took her to the doctor or she wasn't taking her medication, but it's just can be such a benign. I mean, I wouldn't call OCD and ADD uh benign, but like they're manageable.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

Yeah, right a hundred percent. Right?

SPEAKER_02 9:26

Yeah, and and she so I don't know. I was just thinking about that because that's what happens with so many people. You know, somebody may just have surgery and be prescribed opiates, and then they're shooting heroin the next thing we know. You have and you've probably seen so many people die in your years.

SPEAKER_04 9:46

A fellow that I was in the Marine Corps with, I met him at Camp Lejeune, and he got out after me. And uh, you know, uh he said I just became a Newark police officer in New Jersey. And I said, Newark, my gosh, you didn't have enough. And he's like, That's just the way it is, Timmy. I understood that. Yeah. Six years six years later. Uh six years later. He never drank smoking nothing. Uh uh, the agency doctor put him on colanopin and then within a year he was to the needle. And that's where you made me you just made me think of you know uh uh my friend, and uh it was just heartbreaking to see this stud. You know that is he alive? Yeah, he's he's Oh thank god. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

Thank God he made it out.

SPEAKER_04 10:38

Made it out, and he's actually the one that dropped me off. And I met him, I think I was like 20, 20, I think, 21.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

When you were just a kid.

SPEAKER_04 10:49

Uh just a kid, and uh You must have been adorable.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

I mean, you're so adorable that's a good one. I never had a problem with that. Like, you must have been adorable.

SPEAKER_04 10:59

Yeah, I never had a problem in that respect. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

Have you always been a good communicator?

SPEAKER_04 11:06

And so personable and I think um it's just from when you come out of a black hole and you step into the light. You know, there's a conversion that just I can't wait to hear all about the light. Yeah, it's just um I don't know, it's kind of like beyond knowledge, you know. Like I I really don't know. I stopped trying to figure it out and just learn how to live now so I could have experiences, you know, and and um Yeah, my my authenticity has just brought me a lot of peace and comfort and quiet. It served me very well, and I think that's can do the same for anybody, really. We're all very special and we're all part of this for me, a very unexplainable, you know, beginning and existence, and it's just really deep. Like it's really deep, you know. Is your wife deep she's very um she's a very strong woman in her in her beliefs and her Christian beliefs, very strong. I mean, an amazing woman in in that respect and so many other respects. But for me, in my experience, there's something about somebody who really practices what the literature preaches, you know, because I work with a lot of people, and a lot of the men I work with are really angry at God, very angry, and it's a it they've been using that for a really long time, and I'm that's not uncommon.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

No, of course not. That's more common in anything, yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_04 12:38

And I get that, but you know, I feel I I was given a gift, I stumbled upon it upon it. Uh I'll just leave it at that. I think it's beyond that. But anyway, so I said to this guy one time, because I sponsor a lot of men in in the in the fellowship, and I said to this guy one day, I want you to ask this question for me. I said, Is it you know God, aka scripture? Because I'm a Christian. If I was uh if I was Jewish, I would have re related to the Torah, you know.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 13:07

And he's talking about church. So are you mad at God, aka scripture, or are you mad at the people in the church? And I could see I hit something with him on that, and he goes, Whoa. I said, Yeah. I said, because what I read in scripture is not what I see in the church. And man, I'll tell you what, I've never let go of that, and it really makes a lot of people think because people will be people, and what I see people doing is not what I read. Are you following me? Yeah, oh yes, I'm not sure. And it's really difficult because those people, whether it's Old Testament or New Testament, right, they're on a whole nother level.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 13:51

Yeah, whole nother level. Like I don't even see those writings anymore, or just I don't even see it anymore. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 13:57

I want to ask you this question, not only because we're on a podcast and that's what I'm supposed to be doing here, but because you know, I love like I love your insides, and I don't even like I want to get to know more of your insights. So I was uh interviewing somebody last week or a couple weeks ago. Her podcast dropped this week, and she has had many, many health challenges in addition to so psychosocial challenges and all sorts of things. And I said, What what is in your resilient toolbox? And she goes, Really? It's it's really just my relationship with Jesus Christ. Do you feel that way?

SPEAKER_04 14:33

100%. Yeah, well, I seeked everything else.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

Yeah, and that's what's worked for you.

SPEAKER_04 14:39

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

So when you Is it your relationship with Jesus Christ, or is it uh what you've learned and practiced?

SPEAKER_04 14:48

I see Christ in in most things in life. For me to truly understand it, uh it's just too deep for me. I I just don't have that kind of capability. You know what I mean? It's way beyond I just try to keep it as simple as I can because for me, uh and the simpli you know, the complex when I was complicating everything, that was the complexit complexity of things, and I just got outmaneuvered over and over and over again. So for me, I found my empowerment in the simplicity.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

But I think that's such an important point. I think that we as humans definitely can make things way too complicated. And then we have like paralysis by analysis. Correct. Right?

SPEAKER_04 15:32

You know, yeah, I have. Like, you know, say alcoholism, right? It runs from park bench to park avenue and everything in between.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Right.

SPEAKER_04 15:40

So, you know, I work with a lot of wealthy people, really smart people. You know, I used to used to maybe get a little intimidated. Wow, that guy's really smart, yeah. And then I'm like, no, actually, he's the smartest, dumbest guy I met.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

You know what I mean? Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 16:03

And once I stumbled upon that, because I've been showing up for my life.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_04 16:08

I've been I've been using it ever since.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

Talk about that. Oh my gosh, we have so many things we have to talk about because I still want to hear hear what created this. I want to hear that, and that's the most important thing right now. Well, really, how you took yourself out of it and th and are thriving now. Would you say you're living your best life?

SPEAKER_04 16:28

100%.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Oh, I can't wait to get into that. Okay, so hold on a minute. I want to just go back to one thing. You just said I'm just showing up now. I'm just showing up in my life. And I know that you're an intentional guy. You've never told me that, but I just know you're a very intentional guy. You're not walking around life an autopilot, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:47

No.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Can you say what that means on like a daily basis? What that means? I just want people to understand what that means, to show up for yourself.

SPEAKER_04 16:56

Because um, I don't know, if I succeed, they succeed. If they succeed, I succeed.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

And what does it look like when you're showing up for yourself in life?

SPEAKER_04 17:06

Um, taking time for myself in the morning. I take a lot of time in the morning. If I have to go anywhere, say by nine o'clock, I'm still up at six, and I prepare my day, I prepare my morning, you know. I do a lot of reading and I do a lot of quiet time, my coffee, talk to my wife a bit, so you know, say hello to my animals, you know, and I got a dog, a beautiful little dog. He's all seven pounds of her.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Seven?

SPEAKER_04 17:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

What what kind of dog?

SPEAKER_04 17:31

She's um what they call Doxy Pooh.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

Oh, I'm gonna have to see a picture.

SPEAKER_04 17:36

Yeah, she's like calico, miniature uh a miniature doch in and a teacup poodle mixed. Oh, tell me about it. So she's got a little sausage body. You should have her. Her legs are like.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

Wait, do you want to hear something really cute?

SPEAKER_03 17:52

She's so cute. She's so cute.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 17:57

Yeah, yeah, she's so cute.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

You know, it might sound to some people like I'm flirting with you, which I'm really not. I just adore you so much. You're so funny, and you don't even try to be funny.

SPEAKER_04 18:08

No, I'm just living, you know, I'm living my best life.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

So I'm gonna talk about waste ton again just for one second. So he has always wanted a weenie dog. And we have doodle, we have labberdoodles, but he really has always wanted a weenie dog. And he's you know, he's his first year out of college, he's living in New York City. It's not really realistic right now. But he has it, it's all it's all figured out. That dog's name is gonna be Fran. Do you know why?

SPEAKER_04 18:32

Uh Fran.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

Because they're weenie dogs, Frankfurter.

SPEAKER_04 18:36

Oh, Frank. So Fran, if it's a Oh no, it's gonna be a boy.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

It's gonna be a boy. But her his name is gonna be Fran. Oh man. Yeah. So I so I really have to see though. I have to see, I have to see a picture.

SPEAKER_04 18:49

Oh my god, she's adorable. She's so easy, too. Like, she's so tiny. Like, you know, you don't need to take her for long walks. Actually, she doesn't really.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

She must have the tiniest little bladder, though.

SPEAKER_04 19:00

Tiny, and then even the little poopies. I gotta like sometimes, sometimes I gotta look, I gotta look for them. Like they're smaller than peanut MMs, you know. I'm like, my husband calls them Titsy Wolves. Yeah, trying to do the right thing, you know. I live in an HOA with my little bag. And I'm like, where the heck did that go?

SPEAKER_02 19:20

You know, I live in an HOA too, and sometimes I'm so worried because if I take them out late at night and I'll I'll bring my phone, you know, with the light. But sometimes I just can't find find them, and I'm like, oh god, so what you can do.

SPEAKER_04 19:33

I bring a flashlight.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Well, I use the flashlight from my phone, but I get like a handheld.

SPEAKER_04 19:37

Oh yeah, that's what I'm gonna have to start doing. Who smokes the cell phone for the floor? Okay, I'm gonna have to start doing that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Because I don't it like it would probably be me that would like step in it. You know what I mean? Oh yeah. So anyway, um, I wouldn't want that to happen to anybody. But what do you have anything that do you have a list like of things that you definitely want to attend to every day, like reading from the from the big book or um exercising, taking a walk for 20 minutes, you know, whatever it is, like do uh doing mindfulness work. I mean, you are so mindful, but do you have certain things that you do to keep yourself on the right track?

SPEAKER_04 20:16

Yeah, yeah, because I put my money where my mouth is, you know. My first prayer in the morning is thank you for this gift of life today. Um please show me how to how to serve you and my fellows. That's even before my feet hit the floor. And that right then and there, it's like making your bed. For me, it just sets the tone. Um, but I have to be in it and I have to have a relationship with it in order to experience the fruits, you know, and and and and the and the the gifts or grace that come with it.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

Well, that's funny you say that because when you just said I'm in it and I have to live it, when you said it, I thought to myself, and I know you mean it, because I think a lot of people uh may say it, but they don't mean it.

SPEAKER_04 21:06

I see it every day.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 21:08

It's really hard, like you know, with all the people you and I work with, you know. I teach you know, people say, Action speaks louder than words. Wow. I can I can make I can make my words match my actions if I especially if I want something. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 21:26

I do.

SPEAKER_04 21:27

Uh especially if I want something. I teach pat people to look at watch people's patterns.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Of course, of course.

SPEAKER_04 21:35

Because it's a night and day, they're on the back. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Right. It's all about the patterns. You can do anything once or twice, but yeah, but I can say anything to match my actions. But here's the thing, I was talking about this with somebody yesterday, which is if somebody tells me something and then they do something different, I'm definitely uh gonna uh give my my what's the word I'm looking for? Or whatever. I'm I'm I'm I'm looking more at the actions. Yeah. If somebody's always saying this, but they're always doing that, I believe the actions, not the words, right? I think that's very important.

SPEAKER_04 22:09

But with the people I work with, you know, they're always after something. And that's usually more. Right. Right? Because they're because it's never enough. Correct. They're either irritable, restless, or discontent, like we were saying before.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Right.

SPEAKER_04 22:21

So they're manipulating their actions and their words.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Uh my word was creds. I give more creds. Creds. To the action. Like street. Yeah. Like if there's more creds. I give there's I give more creds to the actions than the words.

SPEAKER_04 22:36

Yeah, I'm a pattern guy, though.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:38

Like, you know, you ever in the mall and you see a mom and her daughter walking down, you're like, my gosh, jeans are so fabulous. They're so amazing. They're walk identical. You know what I mean? One's 40, one's 15, but they're still walk that to me, that's a pattern.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

Right.

SPEAKER_04 22:52

It's unconscious, you know. Yes, yes. You know what I mean? It's like just automatic.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Right.

SPEAKER_04 22:57

So I I I teach try to teach as many as I can, watch people's patterns.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

So tell me about yourself as a little guy and when it all went awry. I want to hear that.

SPEAKER_04 23:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just, you know, I I never really got my emotional needs met. I'm one of five boys. Uh my dad was an Italian, went through the ringer, you know, with Mussolini, Hitler in those years. Um when he he was born in Italy, he left Italy, went to England. A lot of Italians were going to London back then. And uh his parents shipped him back off at eight years old back to Italy because he was chosen out of eight children to be the one that's gonna get the education.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

Wait, your dad?

SPEAKER_04 23:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

Eight children?

SPEAKER_04 23:43

He's one of eight.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

One of eight, and you're one of five.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

Correct. And he was chosen to be the one who was gonna receive the education. So at eight years old, they shipped them back from England back to Italy, like, and I think that just destroyed my father from then on out. He's a very clever guy, uh, very well known in Manhattan. He was in internal medicine when he came over here in 19 because he went through all the schooling, Catholic schooling, and um, you know, I'm not a Catholic basher, you know. I really like my church. Um, there's more good than I see the other things, and people will be people, and the enemy will take anything it can to bash Catholicism, Presbyterians, Jews, like, you know, it's just the way it works, you know what I mean? And uh so my dad, you know, he went back to a Catholic schooling system, and then he graduated out of the University of Naples as a as a doctor. Um, and I can only imagine what you know kind of what was it was on a little boy back then. The nuns were really tough, really brutal. Who knows, maybe in that that other department that you know fortunately they got attacked a lot with with the abuse and the sexual stuff. I don't I don't know. Um, but and then so he went back to England to do his uh residency at the Italian hospital in London. There was my mom, this English babe.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

So like are your parents alive?

SPEAKER_04 25:08

I'm an orphan, yeah. Um so dad came here in 53 to Brooklyn. Um mom waited a year for him to get situated and licensed and all that, and she came in 54. So I can't I'm first generation here, and I could come from uh, you know, the the culture was just different, man. Not much emotion. Um I lived in an authoritarian type of parenting style home. And as in my recovery, you know, I really taught myself about parenting styles, you know, and one of them's an authoritarian. And I wanted to learn what morphed off that, you know, what what behaviors, how how much did that contribute to my programming, just like a perfection focused driven parent or a critical parent or a narcissistic parent or a sociopathic parent. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 25:56

But I love that you were curious.

SPEAKER_04 25:58

Well, I didn't want to I didn't want to go down the hole again.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

And you wanted to understand how your authoritarian parenting from mom and dad, just the great enabler. How that's brutal. But I love that you wanted to understand that and the effects that it was gonna have on you as you moved through your life.

SPEAKER_04 26:17

Because I wanted to learn how to love my father. So I wanted to learn how to understand rather than be understood.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Oh my gosh, do you do you love him? I know he's no longer here.

SPEAKER_04 26:28

I was loved actually actually I hated him my whole life. Five years into my recovery, I lost him and I was a little pissed. Because I was really enjoying having my dad like in a different light, you know?

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:41

I went from oh, you know, you go from one extreme to the other, and I like this, the other. You know, it was nice. I told my dad I loved him. It was really hard, like. So a quick story. I'm in sober living. It's my first sober Christmas ever.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Was this here in Christ locally?

SPEAKER_04 26:59

Yeah, Boca, Deerfield. My parents were over on the West Coast, and I've, you know, I came along with a ton of work this last year and through my 12-step process, you know, and my goals. And but one of the things I needed to do was to tell my father I loved him. I thought that'd be a really cool way to make an amends to the people that, you know, they did the best they could with what they had. Um and it was the hardest thing. I couldn't believe it. So I get over there, sober living. I have to be back. I think it was eight o'clock on a Sunday. They were over in the Done Eating area a little north of Clearwater. Clearwater Clearwater, you know.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:37

I don't know, three-hour, four-hour drive. So I had to just get going around three Sunday afternoon or whatever, the day after Christmas. So I made it that goal. Before I leave here, I'm telling my dad I'm I um I love him. I'm gonna give him this huge hug. So time started getting on, you know, and then I get to the point where I gotta go, I've gotta get in trouble. I get so close to him, and then I pull back. I get close. It's it lasted for a couple hours, and I'm like, oh my god, I can't believe how hard this is. And one time my father said to me, He goes, What the hell's the matter with you? I was like, Oh my god, he's starting to know. And then I pull away, and then finally I just broke through and I hugged him, and I said, Dad, I love you, and I'm gonna miss you until the next time I see you. My and my dad, and my dad's going, and my no, he couldn't even say anything. He's going, I could feel him, I could feel him. And I'm like, just let it out. And then it dawned me. I couldn't let it out either. No one, no one and it just the ride home that night was unbelievable. My little wings opened up just a little more. It was like the best ride I had in so long.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

I really, really, really get that so much. I wanted to share this with you. So, up until my husband passed away, which was almost four years now, which I just can't even believe.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Um, I just can't believe it. It's so bizarre. Um this is my truth. And what you said is everybody did the best they can with what they had. This is not about blame at all.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

Um, but I never knew what it felt like to be parented. I never knew what it was like to be parented.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

I agree.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

And when my husband passed away and my dad called me, he was not speaking to me at the time. So I was in my 50s already, right? I was in my early 50s, and he called me and he left me a message, and he said, Willie, because that's what he's called me always, Willie. Um, you know, please, please call me. I heard the news. This is your father, and yes, I will always be your father. So I don't know if I called him back or if he called me, I don't remember, because it was right in the midst of, you know, my husband had just passed away. And I remember saying to him, This is so interesting. And I I maybe I've talked about this before, but I just think this is such an interesting point. You know, I was always like, Oh my god, I would never say that to my parents. Oh my god, I could never say that to my dad, right? But after my husband passed away and we were on the phone, I wasn't thinking about how he might take what I was gonna say, right? But I just said, you know, thank you so much for calling. I really appreciate it. Um, and I said, but I have to tell you, Dad, like if things are gonna be the way they've always been, like, I'm good, we can say our farewells. And he said, I will always be your father and you will always be my daughter. And I meant it. I I couldn't continue on with any type of uh unhealthy relationship with anybody. My husband had passed away. I had three kids, I have three kids, two dogs, a business, a house. Like, I can't, I don't have time, like I can't. And and I don't want to, and I don't want to, and I have to tell you, in the last few years, I have learned what it really feels like to be parented or loved by a parent, you know? And my dad's 87, and I just I'm so grateful. It is one thing in my life that I have the utmost gratitude for that I was able to understand what that felt like before I didn't have any parents. Yeah, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 31:39

I do.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

And you can relate.

SPEAKER_04 31:41

Oh yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

It it's so powerful and deep, I can't even explain it to you.

SPEAKER_04 31:47

Did a pretty good job, though.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

And Tim, people say people can't change. People can't change. Obviously, people can change, or I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing. My father is like a different man. And I'm not saying he was a bad guy before. He just is more of an emotional, you know.

SPEAKER_04 32:07

He's more in touch with his feelings, right? Instead of denying them.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 32:10

That's probably what he was taught.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

I'm sure.

SPEAKER_04 32:13

You know, be quiet, what we say in this house stays in this house.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

That's what I was always taught, and that's what what got me in the most trouble.

SPEAKER_04 32:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

Not because I was gossiping about my family, but I was looking to for support from like my other family members or or or love or just whatever it was.

SPEAKER_04 32:28

Yeah, it's but if you really think about it, I mean, for me, you might have a different take on it, but for me, it like you know uh uh it makes me keep secrets. You know, and that always that always brings turmoil into your life. A secret will always bring turmoil into your life, you know, kind of like how they say in the rooms, you know, in the 12-step pellet, right? You're you're sick as your own secrets.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:50

You know, so like if I'm taught the the the thought say anything, you know, what we say in here stay stays in this house, like that's kind of weird.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

But there's a difference between privacy and but teach me the difference.

SPEAKER_04 33:03

I'm just little girl, I'm just a little boy. Like, yeah. All I really need is just a kiss and a good night hug, and you'll be all right, you know, that's all I need, right?

SPEAKER_02 33:11

But then we're telling you to feel safe, right? And heard.

SPEAKER_04 33:13

Yeah, emotional security. It's a basic human need. And if you can't get that, it is the basic human need. It really sets you up, man. For walking on eggshells, insecurity, lack of self-worth.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

But also I can relate to the part where you said I hated my I didn't I don't I never hated my parents.

SPEAKER_04 33:32

That's a strong word. I never really liked my dad, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:34

Though I'll tell you, I lived in victim for many, many, many years. And I would complain about it, and how can the And as soon as I changed my mindset and went from like anger to compassion, I no longer felt victimized, I felt empowered. And that has been changed my entire experience.

SPEAKER_04 33:59

That's my version of being under learning how to to uh understand rather than be understood. Your victim always wants to be understood.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

I think oh my god, and I'm going through that. Oh my gosh, can we talk about this?

SPEAKER_04 34:12

Whatever you want.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

Oh my gosh, Tim. You're the host. Tim. But this is so But this is so interesting because Yes, what you just said is so true. When I was the difficult one, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 34:30

I do.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

I was always the difficult one because I went against the grain. Because I was about being authentic and about my feelings and about being heard and about using my voice. So nobody really, if you're not interested in that as a parent, you're the difficult one. Yeah, for sure. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 34:47

Yeah, you're not going with the yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

And so I kind of became the black sheep or the scapegoat, you know, everything was my fault. And um and I remember when I was younger, it was so important to me that people, you know, right, I felt so misunderstood. Like that is not me at all. That is not me at all. But never experienced that. Like you've never, right? Like you have like all these people have like a very wrong understanding and version of who I am. And I have to tell you that for the very first time in my life, um I just went through this experience now, right? Where um I was in a situation with some friends where I didn't feel I was could be in a the most aligned with myself, right? And I felt that I needed to kind of break free of that. Yeah and you know how I know that I've healed from my childhood stuff? I don't care in the least bit about anybody knowing my story.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

Or about what what really happened. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. That's not what's important in my life anymore. I if and if I'm focusing on that, I'm not doing as good of a job as a mom or as a therapist or as to myself.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 36:11

You know, that's just not how I want to spend my time. Oh, you know, calling up all my friends and can you believe this happened? And you gotta hear my side of the story.

SPEAKER_04 36:20

Yeah, it's not empowering at all.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

It's so empowering, Tim. It's so empowering. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 36:25

But looking for for relief or soothing or praise or you know, whatever in others.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

And I have to tell you people will call me and they want to talk about it, and I don't even want to talk about it. Like I'm not interested. Like my energy has to go elsewhere. But when you're a victim, when you're in victimhood, we love it, you look for an audience so that you can tell that story to over and over and over again.

SPEAKER_04 36:50

We attract what we know.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

Not interested.

SPEAKER_04 36:52

And whoever would listen to that over and over again, you found the perfect person. That's the person we're victim.

SPEAKER_02 36:58

And that person's a rescuer, which gives them purpose.

SPEAKER_04 37:01

100%.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

You know the whole victim trying to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_04 37:03

Two dead batteries trying to start a car, you know?

SPEAKER_02 37:05

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so true.

SPEAKER_04 37:10

Come on, let's keep let's let's let's keep it real, right?

SPEAKER_02 37:13

Yeah, yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_04 37:15

It won't work. There's no authenticity in that. I know. There's just no authentic you know, okay, it happened to you, but what are you gonna choose? How are you gonna choose to respond? Because we always have the the gift of choice. Like it's such a gift. Choice is such a gift. I can't control it is such a gift. I can't control you. I can't control any I can't control you. And trying to do something that's humanly impossible just brings all this nonsense and chaos chaos and dysfunction. But you can't control anybody dysfunction. I but I can't choose how I'm gonna respond.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 37:49

And that's the case.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Oh now I'm singing, see, I'm getting excited about it.

SPEAKER_04 37:52

I know I love it.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

Oh my gosh. No, it just I just you're uh it's just so easy with you. Anyway, listen, I want to know when things went awry for you. I totally understand the lack of your emotional needs being met. I can totally understand why you would go or how you went in the direction you went in, but kind of can you talk about that a little bit?

SPEAKER_04 38:17

Yeah, just um ever since I can remember, I didn't like how I felt. Um, you know.

SPEAKER_02 38:23

You didn't think you were lovable.

SPEAKER_04 38:24

Uh yeah, I don't know if I was there yet. You know, I was like little, little. It was just kind of like what's wrong with me.

SPEAKER_02 38:31

Oh, yeah. No, no, no. But I'm saying as you grew up, um what what were your core beliefs?

SPEAKER_04 38:38

Unworthy. Right. You'll be a dummy your whole life. Um you're a liar, a phony. Because someone was always trying to be everything else except Tim.

SPEAKER_02 38:48

Right.

SPEAKER_04 38:49

And it just there's there's no mojo there, man.

SPEAKER_02 38:52

And that's protection. That's a coping, that's a brilliant coping mechanism when you're a child.

SPEAKER_04 38:56

Oh, 100%. It works.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

First feelings of safety, but no bueno when you're an adult.

SPEAKER_04 39:00

Correct. When you were alone, I was still going like when even a little kid, you know, when even when you're alone as a little kid, you're like, you know? That's a lot of work every day.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

Right.

SPEAKER_04 39:11

Um, so it is a lot of work.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

It's exhausting.

SPEAKER_04 39:14

Oh my God. Just being disingenuous, whether you're a kid or an adult, it's a lot of work.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

Well, it's a performance.

SPEAKER_04 39:21

Correct. And that's a lot, man.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

I don't have that in it.

SPEAKER_04 39:23

Just too much. And you always have to remember what you say, you know. Like a liar always has to remember what they say. That in itself, especially at 64, man. I walk into a room already, and sometimes I'm like, uh, I can only imagine if I was living a lie still. Oh my god, I'd be busted every day. You know, I mean it's just too much work.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

Um So when did you start using 11? You were 11? I mean, I know that's not uncommon. I know earlier. It just makes me a little sad.

SPEAKER_04 39:50

Yeah, but I was one of five and I'm the youngest. So I had a brother, Nikki, you know, he was eight years older than me. So, like when you're eleven, he's 19. He's already jacked up. You know what I mean? Real stud, you know, like good looking dude. And you know, they're all smoking weed. And you know, eleven to nineteen, or was he eighteen? I think he was eighteen. Eleven to eighteen, and in that stage of your life is night and day. Of course. 30 to 38, 40 to 48. Yeah, it's just about 11 to 18. And they're all smoking.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

55 to 64.

SPEAKER_04 40:24

That's no big deal. Um, it's no big deal. But back then it's night and day. They're two complete opposites.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

Did you smoke for the first time with your brother or brothers?

SPEAKER_04 40:37

Uh no. Two girls and a and a and a and a guy from school.

SPEAKER_02 40:43

And how long did that go on before you went to the to the bigger stuff?

SPEAKER_04 40:49

I tried everything between 11 and 16.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

What was everything?

SPEAKER_04 40:54

Um, pills, shrooms. Uh we didn't have oxies then. We had uh tulinols. Um and we also had the um got Royer 714s. I think they might have been an oxy. Nah, it's a Royer. Royer 7, an opia, I think. All right. Um The Booze was great. Um, and then I don't know, man, I I was 16, I'll never forget it was a Burger King parking lot. And this other guy um that I was paling around with, um, he had cocaine. And I did a line of cocaine, and I can tell you what, the only way I know how to explain it is like I had this surge from my brain to my toes, and I thought I had, you know, like an like an orgasm.

SPEAKER_02 41:45

Then you really felt godlike.

SPEAKER_04 41:47

Well, a hundred percent, but at the same time I was really scared. I bet. Because it gave me just oh my god. Which I never had in the five years I was experimenting. And I just knew I was like, oh my god. So I got scared too at the same time. And then I as time went on, you know, when you drink alcoholically like me, you know, you're already either passed out, puking within ten hours or so, you don't even know who where the hell you are, blackout. And then you do some blow, and it's like next thing you know, oh my god, two days have passed, and I'm still doing blow and I'm still drinking. So when you drink alcoholically like me for two days, it's on a whole nother level. Like you've just never been there, and I haven't blacked out. I could get pulled over, nobody would even know. It's in it's insane. Because that's how my body responds, you know. Some of the stuff we we were doing or I was doing would knock a mule out, you know.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

Do you have addiction in your family?

SPEAKER_04 42:48

My brothers all su struggled.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 42:50

My dad, no, but he had a lot of the isms. You know, I would call him like a para-alcoholic, you know what I mean? He just didn't drink. Uh and my mom, she has the isms too. She was so codependent, the rescuer, big time rescuer. Um, but I think my grandfather, my mom's dad, uh, I think it got to the point where my grandmother and my mother's mom said, Look, either you do something about that, or you gotta go. Because he had a troubled life too. He was 14, got into the army in England. But you know, they caught up to him, kicked him out, said come back in two years.

SPEAKER_02 43:28

You know, 16-year-old kid, yeah. So I I I was able to kind of sum this up, though, how I want to move through my life recently. I was able to put it into a couple of sentences. We've talked a lot about you know being a victim or being a rescuer, and I think a lot about the vi the victim triangle and you know, victim, rescuer, persecute, right? Who's the bad guy? And so one thing I like to do is I like to Stay off the triangle. And so I'm very conscious of that. And that can that there's that can be difficult at times, you know, where you have to assert yourself and you have to confront somebody. Well, and my second thing is I just want to live in integrity, how I feel, how I think, and how I show up all in alignment. So I can't I can't pretend. You know what I mean? That goes back to just being authentic. Right. And it's really it's really kind of easy uh to stay on the right path. It has been for me just living by those kind of two philosophies or whatever you want to call it. Again, it's not always easy. You know, it can be uncomfortable, but we know that that's where the magic happens. You know?

SPEAKER_04 44:52

Yeah, but it's that's where all your success is.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 44:56

You know, I mean anything that comes easy goes easy.

SPEAKER_02 44:59

And it's so interesting, you know, getting back to what I was telling you about my dad, to set that boundary with him throughout my life, I I I I wasn't willing to get that uncomfortable. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 45:11

That's hard, man.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

But I wasn't even thinking about my comfort level when my husband died, there was like no negotiation in my head. I didn't think at all about how is he gonna respond? How is this gonna make him feel? And that's why so many people don't set boundaries because they're worried about how the other person's gonna feel. But then then what are we doing? Like we're not serving our own needs. And we can certainly set loving boundaries. I think I was very respectful when I said that. But if I didn't set that boundary of I I can't do it the way we've been doing it anymore, yeah, we would not be where we are today, which is in the most beautiful space. But if that didn't happen, if my husband hadn't passed away, I still may be in a relationship that wasn't satisfying. Do you know what I mean? I think that's just so important.

SPEAKER_04 45:59

It really is. You know, and we just we teach people how to treat us.

SPEAKER_02 46:04

Absolutely. You know, people that's uh life lesson number eight, Dr. Phil McGraw.

SPEAKER_04 46:08

Oh, for real?

SPEAKER_02 46:09

Yes. I mean I don't follow him, but people follow our lead. You know, but years ago I remember I heard it, uh, read it, my husband and I used to say it all the time. You teach people to treat you all the day all the time.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 46:20

And if you're participating, you gotta take responsibility. You can't keep making them the bad person if you're participating. Yeah, you're showing them that you're okay with it.

SPEAKER_04 46:29

Yeah, I mean, when it comes to parents, like that can be tricky. Like you said, I was the black sheep, and you know, I always I ask the people I work with, were you the black sheep or were you the designated black sheep amongst a herd of black sheep?

SPEAKER_02 46:45

And I know Janine loves that because she has a podcast all about black sheep. Yes, it's called I think like the black sheep.

SPEAKER_04 46:51

Oh man, do I got another booking, you think?

SPEAKER_02 46:53

Yes, you absolutely do. Janine, what's it called? Say it exactly.

unknown 46:56

Being the black sheep.

SPEAKER_02 46:57

Being the black sheep.

SPEAKER_04 46:58

Being the black sheep. So you know, like if you really think about that, no, but that's so accurate. The function has to live on some type of oxygen, some type of food, some type of protein, some type of resource.

SPEAKER_02 47:12

You know that the black sheep is just the identified patient. It's more of a family system. It's not really about that person.

SPEAKER_04 47:19

100%.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

Right? I tell that to my clients all the time. You just happen to be the identified patient. You know, this is a this is really a family systems issue.

SPEAKER_04 47:28

Yeah, and it, you know, people like they want to protect their parents, and I get that to a certain extent. But like for people like me and you, we have to do stuff sometimes that's a little harder, you know, than what they're used to, right? Um, you know, so you know, I uh blaming parents is very inappropriate. For me, it is.

SPEAKER_02 47:46

Inappropriate?

SPEAKER_04 47:47

Inappropriate. It's un it's just uncalled for, it's not professional. You know what?

SPEAKER_02 47:51

I always say it's not it's not the intent, it's the impact.

SPEAKER_04 47:56

Correct. Yeah, but it's it's just uncalled for because they're operating on what was given them.

SPEAKER_02 48:03

Absolutely. It's generational.

SPEAKER_04 48:05

Correct. Just like the person sitting in front of us is operating on what they gave him. And then, you know, I take it one step forward with a little humor. I say, look, anybody can have a child unless there's a medical condition. And then here's the humor part getting comfortable. I said, actually, you know, it's so easy. Most of us do it with our eyes closed. And that's what they do. Right. I'm like, good, I got him a little, ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I said, but uh what I want to talk to you out of not only out of respect as an adult, not everybody can be a mom or a dad. And we don't blame them, it's just not called for, right? It's inappropriate because they're just operating on what was given them. I just like you're operating on what was given you.

SPEAKER_02 48:45

I agree. I agree. And I know that I'm a work in action as a parent. Uh or train, I'm still in training. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 48:53

Hopefully it never ends for you.

SPEAKER_02 48:54

No, it never I hope it never ended.

SPEAKER_04 48:55

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 48:56

Like I hope it never ends. I'm such a different parent now than I was when my first child was born twenty-five years ago because what I all I knew was what I saw with my own parents, which wasn't always so effective.

SPEAKER_04 49:08

So you know look, I get it.

SPEAKER_02 49:10

So and you have kids.

SPEAKER_04 49:11

I got two two boys.

SPEAKER_02 49:13

And you have grandkids.

SPEAKER_04 49:14

And I got a granddaughter, yeah. I got two I got two boys, and then I have, you know, I I'm not a big fan of the stepson and stepdaughter, but they're like my kids. And they've been in my life almost 20 years, you know what I mean? So like, um, and and you know, she's only 35. Actually, I have something on my keychain. Oh, I have it on my keychain. Thank she gave it to me when she was just you know in her late teens. Thank you for being the dad. You didn't have to be.

SPEAKER_02 49:39

Oh my gosh, that is so beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 49:41

It's unbelievable, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

That is really beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 49:44

Yeah, and she has the beautiful granddaughter, and I'm Papa. You know, hi papa, and it's just where I always try to be.

SPEAKER_02 49:52

And I know you're probably the best. We talked about this.

SPEAKER_04 49:55

I cry all the time because I always my entire life I wanted to be childlike.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

Of course, you never got to be a child.

SPEAKER_04 50:02

I never got to be one. I always had to be on my guard, always had to be defending myself, watching my back. You know, how's dad doing today? How's he gonna come home? You know, is he gonna be you know tearing up house? Is he gonna chew me out? I'm not doing homework, I'm watching TV again. You know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

I I do understand.

SPEAKER_04 50:21

I uh to see a child, like that's where I want to live today. Look, I'm 64 in August. Like, I I I already I came out of halftime a long time ago. You know what I mean? Yes. And if you take the average life expectancy for a male, it's 78, and I think that may be a little lower because of COVID and and and maybe um um um maybe a overdo overdoses.

SPEAKER_02 50:44

Right.

SPEAKER_04 50:45

No kidding. I know that's so you know, God willing.

SPEAKER_02 50:48

Um that's been 15 years. No shit.

SPEAKER_04 50:53

No shit.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

No, that is not happening. I'm not gonna believe it.

SPEAKER_04 50:56

So you know, I'm just not in that ball game anymore. You know what I mean? I don't play ping pong. Um, you know, I'm a true believer, you know, I'm just so in that space right now. Like it's all on loan, nothing belongs to me. I'm not taking shit with me. I've never seen a funeral uh you know a U-Hole following a funeral process. Like, I'm just just not there anymore, man. Like I want to work, I want to make a difference, I want to show up for podcasts, uh, I want to do good with other things that I do, and I just want to go home.

SPEAKER_02 51:29

So let me let me ask you a question because we have to get I I I feel you, I really do. I really do, and it really took, I feel, like my husband getting sick and passing away to really, really zoom in on what is really important. And I I want to say this one other thing before we get back to, you know, so you you were using for a lot of years, you know, you've been in recovery now for 19 years, so that would put you at at how old? You are 40.

SPEAKER_01 52:00

44.

SPEAKER_02 52:01

44. So, and I and I caught what you just said that they've been your in your life for almost 20 years, and that you've been in recovery for 19, by the way. I picked up on that.

SPEAKER_04 52:11

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 52:11

Yeah. That there's something to that, obviously.

SPEAKER_04 52:14

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 52:15

There's a lot to that.

SPEAKER_04 52:16

Yeah, my goal is to at least get to 78. That means I would live I would have lived my life sober and happy.

SPEAKER_02 52:24

For over half.

SPEAKER_04 52:25

Well, for most of my life, yeah, over half, you know. I want to be so I want to be though I'm doing the math wrong. I want to be sober and happy.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

You have to be 89. You'd have to be 89. Oh no, no, that's not true because you were.

SPEAKER_04 52:35

33 years. Yes. So I got sober from 70. So I want to get to 78. Yes. So I could at least say I live longer sober than I did.

SPEAKER_02 52:44

But what about the years from zero to eleven?

SPEAKER_04 52:47

You don't count those? No. Okay. Yeah. So, you know, that's that's my goal. I want to be sober and happy. I don't want to be sober. I just I see too many people just sober, and it's even the the illness, the adjustment it's either morphed out into something else or they're just not happy.

SPEAKER_00 53:04

Right.

SPEAKER_04 53:04

And if you're not sober and happy, you're doing it wrong.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

I would agree with you.

SPEAKER_04 53:09

It's bottom line, you know. I keep it really simple today.

SPEAKER_02 53:12

Yeah. So so you got into, I want to speed this up just a little bit, only because it's not because I don't want to know, but I want you to talk about stomping out the stigma. Okay. I want you to talk about how you got into that. I want you, you know, obviously, if people want to get involved, I think it's such an important, important it needs we need to shine the light on that here. But what I really want to talk about first, just you know, for a few minutes, is so you got clean at 44. Yep. And how can you tell me a little bit about that process and really, I mean, I think you talked about you know this podcast is about resilience and surviving a thriving and living your best life after you've been, I mean, you were smoking crack, right? And you homeless. You went like like this way, like you had you were at a crossroads. Like, I can continue to do this, I'd probably be dead by now. Or I could create a life for myself. And you know, what led you to the to the healthier choice? And I understand, you know, what's in your toolbox, which is AA meetings and reading scripture, and I don't even remember what else you said. Drinking a glass of a cup of coffee in the morning and having a coffee and your dog and your kids, spending time with your kids. And this is what I wanted to say, by the way. I think it is so incredibly important as adults that we that play, you know, just play and we can be childlike and and you know, go to the playground and swing on the swings, or you know, like I used to play jacks with my with my mother when I was little. That was a good memory, and so I bought some jacks, or I used to play Miss uh Miss Pac-Man with my dad. I have a Miss Pac-Man machine in my house, and I and connecting with our little girl or our little boy and just having fun and not always having to be responsible every minute of the day. I mean, responsible fun, responsible fun, but we need responsible play. Um, but I think it's so important. Especially for for those people like you and maybe me who didn't have as much of a childhood because we were just trying to be uh good.

SPEAKER_04 55:15

Survive.

SPEAKER_02 55:16

Survive, yeah. With what I could emotionally, emotionally, you know.

SPEAKER_04 55:20

You know, you're 11, 12, 13, you're fully under, you know, you're immature, you're underdeveloped, like you're just operating on what you have in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 55:29

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 55:30

That's really not the best stuff, really. You know, especially if you got older for me, older brothers in your life that you look up to and they're all smoking weed in the garage or the driveway, and I come out and they're like so you start thinking, what's up with me?

SPEAKER_02 55:44

You know, I'm just what's wrong with me? Why don't they want to include me? Oh, I'm the unworthy, I'm unimportant, I'll never matter.

SPEAKER_04 55:50

Yeah, invisible. I felt invisible.

SPEAKER_02 55:52

Yeah, right. I get that. So what made you choose the healthier path? And you did kind of talk about what keeps you there.

SPEAKER_04 56:01

Well, what made me choose it was to keep it, you know, really simple so everybody can grab it, you know. My pain outgrew my fear.

SPEAKER_02 56:09

Say that in the camera.

SPEAKER_04 56:10

I don't know which one's mine.

SPEAKER_02 56:11

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_04 56:13

Um my pain my pain outgrew my fear.

SPEAKER_02 56:17

What can you break that down a little bit more?

SPEAKER_04 56:20

Because uh, you know, prior to that I lived a very fear-based life. And living a fear-based life from my experience, only you know, I I c kept uh having fear-based decisions, and fear-based decisions only for me kept creating more fear.

SPEAKER_02 56:39

No bueno. You understand why, right? Why because when you're making decisions out of fear, you're not coming from the prefrontal cortex, which is responsible for good decision making, right? You were coming from more of an emotional place where you have no access to your prefrontal cortex.

SPEAKER_04 56:57

Yeah, and I had no coping skills.

SPEAKER_02 56:58

So, how do you make a good decision if you're coming from an emotional place?

SPEAKER_04 57:02

Not very nice. It's all motion it's all emotionally charged.

SPEAKER_02 57:05

Exactly. And that's why they say don't make any major decisions, you know, after you lose a spouse or when you have your first year of sobriety, right? Don't make any big decisions.

SPEAKER_04 57:16

Yeah, no, I but you know, having a reflective mindset has served me can't even tell you how well it versus a reactive mindset.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

You know you respond re rather than react. You pause.

SPEAKER_04 57:28

Yeah, so in that living that lifestyle, you know, I'm a very I I I like imagery a lot or sound effects, and that's just something I've acquired more in my sobriety. I have no idea why.

SPEAKER_02 57:38

Oh, you would love the sound healing.

SPEAKER_04 57:40

Yeah, but when I hear that, you know, uh fear-based decisions only create more fear. I hear the drain, the sound of the drain, you know.

SPEAKER_00 57:48

Oh my god, how my gosh help me, you know.

SPEAKER_04 57:51

Yes for year after year. So I had great coping skills.

SPEAKER_00 57:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:55

You could drop me off in the Sahara Desert. I I eventually I would it might take me a little longer, but I'll find it. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 58:01

You had good coping skills. Now you have good coping skills.

SPEAKER_04 58:04

Yeah, I could leave the house with no money to get high for a week. You know, so uh that this doesn't intrigue me anymore. I want to learn coping skills, you know, I want to help people because in my recovery too, you know, I I work with so many people and I just got so tired of hearing people you close my door and they come on in, man. And I sit down and say, So let's get busy right out of the gate, because your drug addiction has. Right? So just tell me just keep it real. I just keep it real. Just tell me straight up why you treat yourself so poorly.

SPEAKER_02 58:32

You and I are so similar in that way.

SPEAKER_04 58:34

And you know what the number one answer is? Uh uh, you should make my head explode.

SPEAKER_02 58:40

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:43

I couldn't take it.

SPEAKER_02 58:44

I know why, but we need you to know why.

SPEAKER_04 58:46

So I just made it a goal of mine to learn as much as possible because I want to show people uh if you only began to know what would happen to your world. Right? So take them from I don't know to helping them to know because I can only imagine what would happen to your world if you began to know.

SPEAKER_02 59:04

And and began to know that you are worthy and you are important and you have great, wonderful things to share with the world.

SPEAKER_04 59:11

Everybody's got worth.

SPEAKER_02 59:12

Right. Everybody has worth.

SPEAKER_04 59:14

And everybody has a lane.

SPEAKER_02 59:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:16

That's the magic about it, that's the creative intelligence about it, beyond knowledge about it. You can figure it out all you want. Go ahead, go ahead. You're in my office because you can't stop drinking. You've been trying to figure it out for 20 years. Would you hire me as an accountant? With those kind of returns, you fire me so quick. But when it comes to you, it's kind of like the only illness I know that tells me I don't have a problem.

SPEAKER_02 59:38

I love, I love how you say that. So um so you you really I I I I love that. Thank God for all of us too, because you are such um a huge asset to our community. So talking about stomping uh a stigma.

SPEAKER_04 59:55

In my fifteenth year of recovery, you know, for me, I've I have a relationship with the best of my ability with God, the best of my understanding, you know, and I really wanted to worship and put my money where my mouth was, not just show up at church. I'm not mocking that. You know, I think it's great. But I wanted to do something to show God. Oh my god, it gets me every time.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:20

I know, but it's it's I get it, it's so beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:22

It's beyond, it's beautiful, but it's just so beyond now. I know. It's anyway, it was just deep. Um, I said, I'm gonna show you God how committed I I'm gonna. And I don't know, it's crazy. My wife was like, Oh my god, I can't believe this is moving right now. Because one day I said, I looked on my phone, I said, I live in Boyton, and I got sober in Deerfield. How far is Boyton to Deerfield?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:48

That's how you created the past? Correct. Oh my gosh, tell everybody.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:52

It said 20 miles. I went, hmm. So over the years in my recovery, I knew time tells everything, you know. So instead of reacting, right, just let it sit. Yeah, let it work its way out.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:05

You want to marinate on it.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:07

It just it does it so much better than me. You know what I mean? So I just let it go. And then one day it was just like I know what I'm doing, Terry. She's like, What do you what do you mean? I said, I'm walking twenty miles. Just me and God. I wanna as soon as I made the commitment, here comes those sound effects that I use a lot. It's just and one day, and whether you believe me or not, I'm not responsible for that.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:35

I love what you just said.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:37

What?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:38

What I love what you just said. You said whether you believe me or not, I'm not responsible for whether you believe me or not. I I just I that's yes. I agree.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:47

And I and I heard Tim, I love you too.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:55

It's okay, take your job.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:56

You're gonna have eight to nine hours to do this walk. I want you to bring awareness to mental health addiction. And through my own struggles in the Marine Corps, not being able to ask for help because that was weak, and little did I know, it's one of the boldest things someone can do. Actually, it's so bold most of us can't do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:17

I learned how to do that after Adam passed away. I had no choice. Talk about uncomfortable and hard work.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:23

Yeah. So I said, that's it. And I'm a Marine. And if I can help that one guy, that one gal, not have to go through what I went through, it'll all be and then next thing I know, I came out of the gate with a still my trademark today. I wore it Sunday. I walked Sunday for a big fundraiser. Uh stopping out stigma was a recipient of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:48

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:49

But I have I have the first responder's flag that I wear. I have a little zip tie on my neck. I wear my first responder shirt, my red shorts, my sock, my sneakers, my red, white, and blue headband.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:05

I just have a visual.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:06

It's just you love it. Yeah, my first walk. I had probably 25-30 first responders show up. I had a semi-escort all from Boynton to Deerfield, and then I had a heroes dinner that night to raise awareness. I had advocates that wear the uniform that have they that they're all about changing the conversation. It's getting there, but there's so much more work to be done.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:36

So this was four years ago, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:38

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:39

And so how can you tell us how much money you've raised?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:43

Over the years?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:44

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:45

A lot.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:47

Can you tell me what you're doing with that money?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:50

Uh what I do is it with it is I provide people who are in that space that are afraid to report. Because one of the big issues first responders have is uh self-disclosing. Um they don't, you know, and I'm just speaking in general, I'm not here to disrespect or if it's just don't trust the agency, maybe HR EAP. They've tried it before, it didn't work out. They called, um, you know, there was a two-month waiting list. And then at the same time, Palm Beach County where I live has one of the highest death by suicide rates out of any other county in Florida. Broward's right behind them, Miami Dade's right beyond.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:28

Say that, say that again.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:30

In Palm Beach County, we have uh one of the highest death by suicide rates amongst Among the country? Amongst first responders out of any other county in Florida. Oh, oh, oh, oh, yeah. And Florida's huge. We've got 67 of them.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:43

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:44

But if you want to go nationally, we can do that too, because nationally we lose more first responders to death by suicide than we do in the line of duty. So when I heard these statistics, it's crazy, uh, Jill. It's just insane. It's so deep, blows. It's mind-blowing. Like you were doing the thing over there at the table that I called. I know, I love that. That's how much. Yeah, but um it was all right around my April 15th, and I had a lot of my friends are in uniform, and uh, we were talking about it, and I said, Well, what are we doing about it? And it was everybody, you know, to look. So I started doing something about it. And and in the last four years have helped count.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:24

I mean, but it's not just first responders.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:26

Veterans, too.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:27

That's what I thought. Okay, I was like, wait, have I had this wrong the whole time? Yeah. Didn't you start a group for veterans at Beachway?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:33

We have a first responders program.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:35

You have I know you have a first responders program. Oh, you put it together. Correct. Because so many first responders are veterans. Okay. Like so many. Right, right, right. Of course.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:43

I wouldn't, you know, I don't know the stats, but that makes sense, of course. I wouldn't I wouldn't uh doubt it if it was fifty percent.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:50

Yeah. So we're gonna have to wrap up like in the next minute or two. But this is what I wanted to ask you. How can people get involved?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:58

Well, you can reach out. To me. SOTSINC24 at gmail.com. Say the letters. SOTS S O T S Inc I N C 24 at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:12

Or you can go to the website sotsinc.org.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:17

Uh shoot me an email. It's an amazing organization. I'm in uh I started out in Palm Beach County. I serve all of Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, and New Jersey now.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:30

Can I say this? And you can say no. But if you're a first responder or a veteran, or a first responder and a veteran, and you feel that you're struggling, call Tim Roberto. Yeah, first name only. He's your guy.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:45

First name only. Yep. Seven sessions with a licensed therapist. I'm not mocking anybody else. There's a lot of phenomenal.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:53

And then you help them, and then you help them after the seven sessions.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:56

Well, that's up to them. They can either go private with the with the therapist because the ones I know are like you.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:02

Top shelf, very good at what they do.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:05

Thanks, Tim.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:06

Yeah, and a lot of them are all in it like you. But I've been fortunate enough because I've been putting my money where my mouth is. I have culturally competent therapists too. Two of them are licensed clinicians, and their husbands are police officers. And then I have another one, uh, Evelyn. She's in Mount Dora. She's in LMHC, and she still rides a box. She's a first responder. Box is the paramedic, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:29

Yeah, yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:30

She's unbelievable. So, and then I have, you know, it's just amazing what happened. The thing is, it's the anonymity. There's no invoicing, there's no insurance, there's no HR, there's no EAP. There's no reporting back to agency. If you heard me, I get them all the time. Call in. Hey, that's great, you heard about me. From now on, it's first name only. I'm gonna ask you two questions. You answer them on your terms, not mine, so I can appropriately put you with uh with the with the appropriate therapist, and that's the end of it. And then you call them, or they'll call you within 24 hours. The stuff I hear is bizarre. Two months, they give them two sessions, they don't even get phone calls back. Are you kidding me? These are they put their lives.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:15

I get that all the time. It's horrible. People call me and they say, Thank you for calling me back. And I say, Of course I'm gonna call you back. I know. And they say, Well, I just I called like six therapists who are on my insurance or not or whatever, and nobody's called me back. And I don't understand that. And I always say, it's not like you're trying to schedule a a haircut. You're just you're talking about somebody's mental health.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:35

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:35

How do you not call back?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:36

Especially for first responders. They're like some of the bravest people.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:39

They're like the ones that have kept us safe.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:41

No kidding, but I know, I don't understand. But their window, like anybody else's window, if it does open up, if you don't get through it, it shuts real quick.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:50

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:50

You know, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:52

I want to end this this sesh with you just saying one thing that you think the people who are struggling out there who feel that they are never gonna be happy again, what is that one thing that you would tell them right there?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:09

Don't give up. Believe in yourself. And there's help. Yeah, there's a ton of help out there.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:14

And you never have to do it alone.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:16

No.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:18

Thank you, Tim Roberto.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:19

Thanks, Jill. That is awesome. I love you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:23

We are so blessed to have you. Thanks. Thanks. Yeah, thank you. And remember, folks, the Present Moment Project is intended for informational and inspirational purposes only. The views and opinions shared by the hosts and guests are their own and do not constitute medical, legal, or professional advice. Please consult a qualified healthcare professional before making any medical or wellness decisions. This podcast is not a substitute for professional care, no matter how wise we may sound in this present moment.