Ep. 20 - How Do We Keep Living After Losing Someone We Love?

Grief, resilience, and learning how to keep living after loss are at the heart of this deeply personal conversation. Jill Bershad sits down with Amy to talk about the death of Amy’s son Yossi from brain cancer and the experiences that led her to write The Wholeness of a Broken Heart.

Amy shares the nine months between Yossi’s diagnosis and his death, the community that surrounded her family, and the difficult reality of being present for one child while continuing to parent and care for the rest of her family. She and Jill reflect on vulnerability, asking for help, accepting what cannot be changed, and the people who show up when life becomes too heavy to carry alone.

Their conversation moves through the seven pathways Amy writes about, including acceptance, vulnerability, self-care, family and chosen family, beauty, faith, and miracles. They talk about finding comfort in nature, listening to intuition, setting boundaries, speaking to ourselves with kindness, and allowing grief and beauty to exist at the same time.

There are no simple answers for moving through profound loss. Sometimes resilience begins with accepting the life that is actually in front of us, finding safe people who will sit beside us, and remaining open to the beauty, connection, and small miracles that still exist.

Contact Jill K. Bershad, LMHC, CAP

• Email: jill@jillbershad.com 
• Website: jillbershad.com
• Instagram: @jillkbershad.lmhc
• Facebook: jillkbershad

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi friends, I am Jill Bershad, and this is the Present Moment Project. Come with me on a journey of healing, transformation, and curiosity. I'm a licensed mental health counselor, a Reiki master, a hypnotherapist, a sound healer, and an AMPR trauma therapist, who also is a winner. I have learned how to move through life with grace in the aftermath of tragedy. I have learned how to use its modality through my own healing journey. I hope you're listening, and I know this podcast will help you on your healing journey as well. It's not always easy, but you two can laugh again. I look forward to having you along this wild ride with me. So here we go. Let's get started. Hello, friends. I am Jill Burshad with the Present Moment Project, and today I am sitting with Amy Pessa, and I'm so happy to have you here. Welcome. Thank you. Welcome to the studio. Thank you. Thank you. I'm so happy to have you here. I know it was a little, you know, touch and go for a while because, as I know you understand, and I think I told you this, my brain does not work like it used to. Hopefully it will one day. Um, but I know it was challenging. Uh I think because we had scheduled and it wasn't on the studio calendar, which I'm sure was my bad. Oh, so that's what happened. And between the travels and everything else, it's it's been a lot. So I'm I really am so grateful that you're sitting here with me today and that you're willing to talk about, you know, life and loss and the life and the loss that you've experienced. Um, you know, I think eight years ago, right? Seven. Seven years ago. Why do I think it's two thousand oh, but was he diagnosed in 2018? Okay. Yeah. And right. And I remember it was about eight or nine months, right? Nine months, yep. Nine months. So I have Amy here because she wrote a book and um it's called, I want to say it exactly correctly, The Wholeness of a Broken Heart. Resilience and Renewal. Am I saying that exactly right?

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Almost exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

I thought so.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Pathways to resilience or renewal.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Pathways to resilience and renewal. And Amy and I, we've never really been close friends, and we lived in the same neighborhood for a long time. And I remember seeing you walking up and down Boca Falls Boulevard all the time. It is called Boca Falls Drive. Boca Falls, it's been a while. And um, you know, we have some friends in common, mutual friends, and you experienced such a devastating loss and then wrote a book about it. And I was telling Amy before we started recording that, well, first of all, it's been a little difficult for me to read since my husband passed away. That's number one. I do read, it really has to capture my attention, but to stay focused or just have the energy to do it, um, that's been difficult and I love to read. However, so, and I was telling Amy that I've been suffering from some headaches, which at this point the doctors think is stress. And um I wanted to read your book before you came in, and I it was hard because of all the things I just mentioned, but you know, because I'm having these headaches and they end up, it ends up like in my eyes. And I said, I'm just gonna skim it before I meet with you. And I started reading it and I couldn't stop. And it it took a while because you know, my head would start to hurt and I'd have to put it down, and my eyes were getting tired. But I was holding on to every word. And um thank you. And again, thank you. I know this is very vulnerable, and and it's gonna be okay, which you know, and you talk about that a lot in your book. I do, you do talk about that. So I'm gonna turn it over to you. I have my laptop here because I do want to reference the book a little bit while we're sitting here together, but if you don't mind, sort of give like a quick version like you did in the book. You um you, you know, talked about you had a pretty normal life up until that point. You know, your challenges, but not maybe extraordinary circumstances.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Yeah. Yeah, so I had, you know, as I would like, as I write about like a a blessed whatever that means, and it I had just the regular challenges being a parent and sibling rivalry and job-related things, but nothing that was traumatic, I would say. In on this level.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Right. And so nobody knows what we're talking about yet. So I want to share, I want you to share sort of from right before, because you talked about UM and all that.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

Yes, so our oldest son, Joseph, whose nickname was Yossi, was a was headed to University of Miami, College of Engineering. Funny story, we didn't even know he was enrolled in the College of Engineering. He was a regular student, and then I kept getting emails, and they were saying, please have your son register for, I guess, the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences. And finally it went over. I said, Yos, like classes are starting in a month. You need to register. Why haven't you registered? And he goes, What do you mean? I'm in the College of Engineering, it's already planned out for me. I said, What do you mean you're in the College of Engineering? And he goes, Oh, yeah, I just switched it. Like, were you planning on telling us about your parents? Yeah. But that was a very typical Yossi thing to do. So he has his first semester. I love that. And he was He's he was confident. He was confident.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

He knew what he wanted and didn't need to check with Ash, which is good.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

Like, I'm glad to raise an independent child. And like, hello. You'd like to know what your kid is doing, of course. So he winds up going, has a great first semester.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

And then he went Did you know that he was even interested in engineering? Um or is that when you first f found out?

SPEAKER_02 6:23

He like had dabbled, he was has a very scientific mind. So I wasn't surprised. He was more like computer, tech, IT, those sorts of things. Okay. So I wasn't surprised, but I was surprised that he actually did it. Right, right, right. So he winds up being at University of Miami, great first semester, and then second semester he goes back in around January he calls my husband and says, you know, I've been going to the gym and I've been noticing when I am lifting weights, and I lean back, I get a little dizzy. My husband is an ER physician, and oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

I don't you didn't say that in the book, did you?

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Probably not.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

No, you didn't, because I was like, oh, interesting. He called his dad and not his mom, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

I mean, I know some people would call their dad and not their mom, but I sort of know you, and you're I take it that this is honestly just my guess. But I take you as, you know, very present mother, somebody who's very nurturing, you're very maternal. And again, I don't know you that well, but that is that is what shows up for me. Well, thank you. Absolutely. So that's why I was medical.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

But that's why I was like, why did why did it so interesting? That's why. Yeah, that's why I caught him. So we called my husband, who said, you know, when you come into town for the weekend, he was a musician, Yossi was a musician, and so he would come in to play gigs on the weekend. Oh. So we said, the next time you're in town, we'll just, you know, make an appointment at the ENT. It's probably BPPV, which is benign positional, something, something vertigo. So we thought that's what it was. And then I guess there was something that was nagging my husband. So he also made an appointment for, I believe it was an MRI. I always get the MRI and CAT scan confused. But it was one of the tests. And he went, it was not the vertigo, he went for a scan, and the radiologist said, Oh, there's a little bit of swelling in the brain, but he you had just had a cold. It's nothing, it doesn't look like anything, nothing serious, it's ju it's just it's okay. Just what it is. Okay. So then that was okay. He went back to school and he finished his second semester.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

And um it was hard. Like he was sleeping through and missing a lot of his classes. And the fact that he finished the semester was unbelievable once we found out what was going on. And he came home, he finished up in May, and then he was getting significantly worse, and we sort of knew something was up, then he wound up getting a biopsy in May of 2018. And that's when he got his diagnosis inoperable brain cancer, nothing to do about it. My husband, God bless him, literally searched the world. That is not an exaggeration.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

He spoke to experts at Harvard and Duke and reached out to people in Germany and I mean, literally scoured every possible trial, clinical trial, and we got the same answer pretty much from everybody. So we decided at least we should keep them in our home community instead of going to MD Anderson or you know, somewhere up in Boston. And then it was nine months of um hell. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

I bet. I c I wouldn't even pretend to imagine. I can't. You know what question comes up for me? Well, first of all, I want to say I've heard, because I didn't know him, that he was a very special boy. Am I right? I mean, you are his mom. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

But yes. He was very special. He definitely um has been and continues to be one of my greatest teachers. And he was really, really challenging to raise. Did I mention that he was challenging to raise? He was incredibly challenging to raise.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

In what way?

SPEAKER_02 10:39

Because he was so smart. And I could only stay like one step ahead of him. And he had this uncanny ability to like size up people and situations, and so he came home in third grade and realized he was smarter than his teacher, and basically decided to have like no respect. And I'm like, that's not acceptable.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

But did he listen to you?

SPEAKER_02 11:04

Sometimes. Sometimes he just was like one of those kids who was always in trouble at school.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

And as a mother, how did you respond to that?

SPEAKER_02 11:15

Um with great frustration and patience. And one of the things that, you know, I I remember talking about this at his funeral was I would pray every day. Like, God, please give me strength. What do I need? And every single time I would hear a voice in my head that said, love him even more.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

You want to hear something crazy? So when you talked about I I love that so much. When you talked about how he signed up for the engineering school and didn't tell you, it reminded me of my youngest daughter who is graduating from high school tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

And thank you so much. And I don't know if you know this, but you know my husband passed away, but she was entering high school. Maybe I don't remember what what date it started, but my husband passed away July 28th, and like maybe two weeks later, she was supposed to start ninth grade. Yeah, so that was very difficult. I I want to ask you this question first before I go on with what I was about to say. Did he know, did he know how you felt about um what everything you just told me? You know, that he was so smart and you always had to stay one and how what was his response to that?

SPEAKER_02 12:43

Um, I would say, you know, it was like it was he was just challenging. And there's some teenagers that are ch more challenging than others, but I will say by the time he turned 17, it was like something in his brain really switched.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

And also when he got to high school, things started being different. He was in a different environment, he switched schools. He I feel like the teachers really saw him. He was able to shine in terms of his intelligence and his kindness. And so, you know, we actually wound up meeting, we said a meeting with the principal before the school year started and basically said, Hey, this is the story with this kid. We want to be proactive. How can we set him up for success? And I remember when he graduated, and the principal was like, never had one problem with him, ever. Wow. Ever. He was an exemplary student.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

So what does that tell you?

SPEAKER_02 13:41

You know, it was like it was all in there. It was just like growing pains, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:45

But I feel like that the school environment is so important because kids can't all be taught the same.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Like yes. And and it affects their their self-worth and their self-esteem because they're not succeeding because of the environment, not because they're not capable or smart.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Yeah. So it was great. And I also feel like it taught me a lot about unconditional love. And I was, you know, going through um some of the cards that I had written him over the years because sometimes, many times the writing worked better than the verbal communication.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Shocking, and you're a writer.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

And this isn't your first book. It's not my first book.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Is this your second book? Okay, that's what I thought. It is so beautiful. Thank you. It is so beautiful. I can't wait for people that I know to read it so I can discuss it with them because I know it's not out yet. But and we'll talk about when it's coming out. Um so this is what I want to say. My I'm I think all my kids are smart. I do. My daughter, my youngest daughter, is she wanted to be an adult and independent from the time she came out of my womb. And so to parent a child who does not want to be parented, who is so independent, it can be challenging, right? Yes. But it's also amazing at the same time because you're watching this little person who's smart and independent who does not want you making any of the decisions for you. Like I joke all the time. I mean, it's not a joke, this is true. I could not like pick out her socks. I couldn't buy socks when she was two. Like she had to come with me and pick them out herself. And I could go on and on and on. But she's, you know, she's that child that I've always said, like, you know, once she's out in the world and she learns how to channel that and learn how to work with other people, she could be running the world, right?

SPEAKER_02 15:44

That's so true. I remember my aunt said to me, you know, these traits are driving you crazy.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

When he's two, I promise you, when he becomes an adult, they're gonna be the same traits that are gonna serve him well.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

Absolutely. I believe that 100%. But here's a big question. Do you feel like he his person uh his personality was what it was because of nature or nurture? Because my daughter was like this honestly from the time she came out of her womb. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

Yeah, I would say that's a good question. I think more nature, but there definitely was a piece, I think, environmentally, the same way you said it with the school setting, right? Something else, but I do think a lot of it is personality and how he was born. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

My daughter is the sweetest. She she's she's generous, she has such a beautiful spirit, and I always say to her, she's like sunshine in a bottle, really, she is. Though it's you know, it's been um after my husband died, who was her person, really, um, you know, that essence, her light was dimmed, right? And now that it's almost four years, I mean I've seen it in the last four years. I've definitely seen it, but oh, she is just a beautiful soul, and it hurts me that she has this trauma that is taking her. Although she's I know, like I know I'm so much stronger because of it, and I know there have been some so I don't I mean some blessings that have come out of it. Not that we ever wish that these things would happen, but like you say in your book, it's hard to be human. And I just said to you, I've been saying that a lot, it is hard to be human, and life is both brutal and beautiful at the same time. And you know, while sometimes it was challenging to parent my daughter who didn't want to be parented, it was still so beautiful to see her have independent thinking and a strong mind. And it was exactly like you. As soon as I thought I I was good, she like took it to a next level.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

I always thought that I was one step ahead. And then I was like, oh my goodness, she got me there. Exactly. You know what I mean? And this was starting when she was still in the crib. Really, really, so um it's just very interesting. So tell me more. So can you talk about can you talk about those nine months? And if you don't want to, that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

They were um it was it's I feel like it's hard to talk about because it definitely feels like a blur.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

I understand.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

So in some respects, I mean, I just I will say thank God to our amazing community who fed us. Going back and were there for us, and I I mean, just would sleep over and take the night shift when we didn't have help and like amazing, amazing, amazing friends. We literally we could not have gotten through without them. So that is like a very clear memory, and then the other part is just a blur because I have two other children, and so it was still being a parent to them, and everybody was handling the situation differently. So of course, you know, it was like I I was in it and not in it at the same time because I was I was in it because I was in it. And you were trying to survive, trying to survive, and I was also like the pillar of strength for everybody in my family, including my extended family.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Really?

SPEAKER_02 19:49

So it was um it was definitely it was challenging, and then just wanting to be there for my son, right? Being very present and making sure I was there every day.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

And did you have conversations with him about what you feel is next for him, or did you share things with him that you wanted him to know?

SPEAKER_02 20:14

He you know, he lost his short-term memory. So it was very challenging to share things. I feel like most of the conversations that we had were either about very daily living or on a deep soul level.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

I bet you had some beautiful deep soul level conversations.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

We did.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

And I would imagine that you're very grateful for those conversations.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

That will be in your heart forever.

unknown 20:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

Yes, unfortunately, I wrote them down, so I'd remember that. You did because that's what I do.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

You did. Yeah. I want to point out one thing that really stuck out to me um in the book, which was that he went into he was in the hospital and it was there were what was it, just a tiny room, a tiny window. It was just very cold and sterile.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

Rehabilitation facility.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Okay. And you not only put pictures on the wall, but you found pictures of nature so he could feel like he was looking outside to a point. Obviously. I'm sure he knew they were pictures.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

And plants, and plants. You said a lot of plants, and I love how you said it it, you know, brought ox. We know plants bring oxygen to a room, but to think to do that and have the all those plants around, I think you said a friend brought them, right? Mm-hmm. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

Yeah. Well, I walked into this room and I knew that I was going to be there for about a week, and I couldn't do it. It was sterile and yeah, you know, I'm sure people have been in, you know, it's not a rehab facility, but it was like a hospital. Right? So there's a bed and there's a little table and a bathroom, and that was pretty much it. Fluorescent lighting and Oh my gosh, why?

SPEAKER_00 22:08

And why do they do that? Why? It's a hospital. They know that people are there for a reason. Yeah. And it's not a good reason unless you're having a baby. And you st wouldn't want fluorescent lights then either.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

I don't get that.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Uh I don't have an answer for you, but it's it's efficient. I don't know. So I walked in and I was like, For who?

SPEAKER_00 22:30

For who?

SPEAKER_02 22:31

For right? Yes. Efficient for who? Yes, for the administration and the hospital.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

And the and the dollars. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

However that's right.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

So I just needed to make it a different space. So I put up pictures of family and as you said, from nature and plants and quotes, meaningful words, inspiration.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

I love that. I love that. I'm trying to look here. You just mentioned community, which I talk about every time I'm here because I too say the same exact words as you, which are, I don't know what this would look like if I didn't have my community. I don't know. Yeah. It would not be pretty. I mean, it wasn't pretty either way, but it definitely, I don't know where I would be at this point. This is what I wanted to find. How do we live with this day-to-day uncertainty? How do we live as human beings who don't know the time of our death? One day we are here and the next day gone. How do we move forward to make a world more loving, decent, and compassionate for all? Many wisdom traditions instruct us to live each day as if it were our last, but how precisely do we do that? No matter the religion, I think we start by hugging tightly and loving deeply. And then from my Judaism, but also from just my shared humanity, I offer the following suggestions. These are what I wanted to share. This is what I talk about all the time, every one of them. So I think they're working. You know what I'm saying? Because these are the things that I've done that have gotten me to today. And I was, and you're saying the so do you remember what they are, or do you want me to read them? You can read them. I mean, there's a f there's a quite a few. We share our vulnerabilities, being real with each other about our lives. That was a huge one. I it was never safe for me to be so vulnerable. And I didn't have a choice. I had to be. We find and create community by spending time with one another. Okay, that is why I'm doing this podcast. I'm not kidding. I say it every single time. We do not have to go through the hard times alone. And you might be listening and you might say, but I don't really have friends, or all my friends are up north, or all my f family is up north. There are people who have gone through who are going through exactly what you are going through. I mean, not exactly, obviously, it's never exactly, but can understand more than other people, right? Yeah. And they don't even have to be going through what you're going through. Nobody, none of my community has been through what I've been through, right? And but they have empathy and they have compassion and they just show up. And they just show up. I had friends sleeping in my bed with me, and I had so beautiful. I mean, I can't tell you. I would just have people over. That's what that's what helped me so much. My house just, my friends were always over. We were listening to music. Oftentimes it was Jewish music, oftentimes it wasn't. Um, oftentimes it wasn't. And there would be a lot of food, and then everybody would leave, and my entire kitchen was clean. I didn't have one thing to do. I could just go to sleep, and that was in a I had people walking my dogs, I had people taking my daughter to school. I had, I can't even, I mean, on and on and on. And if I didn't have that, I mean I can barely remember to keep an up at this point if it is not written down five times. How was I gonna get through all of that at the beginning?

SPEAKER_02 26:08

Right, right? It's overwhelming.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

And I just I just want to stress to everybody that you do not have to do this alone. There are some very loving people out there, and there is community. We just have to find the right one.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

Yeah, right? Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

And it makes all the difference in the world when you are going through something so difficult. So that was that. And then this is such another one, and this goes back to vulnerability. We speak our truths respectfully. Oh my gosh, I can't talk today. We speak our truths respectfully with one another. We share our light and passions, we take risks. This one, of course, huge, huge, huge. I've been talking about it all day in my sessions today with my clients. Being willing to move outside our comfort zones. So a big one for me was asking for help. That was a big one. It didn't feel so safe. Yeah, you know, growing up and, you know, in my last several years, but I had no choice. I had to accept help and I had to ask for help. I can't believe I'm about to say this on my podcast, but I really I I pretty much say whatever comes to my mind. Maybe this has never come to my mind before. But there was one day that was extremely difficult. And I'm not gonna share with you why, because I want to respect that person's privacy. But I literally threw my body on the floor because, like, subconsciously, I mean, I I knew it was telling me to do this, but I couldn't stop it. And I knew how irrational it was. But I was thinking to myself, maybe if this happens, it'll stop. Do you know what I mean? And it didn't. But I called a friend, a good friend, my friend Heather, and I said, and that that's not me. Like the I'm I've always I mean, I'm I can really like regulate my emotions. I've never been an extremely well, I am an emotional person, of course, but I've been good at regulating them and managing them. And for me to get to that point was like, this is weird because that it just was unfamiliar. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

And I called my friend and I had to tell her, my friend Heather, who I think you know.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

She's amazing, by the way. She's amazing. And um, she's such a gift. And she's like, okay, don't drive anywhere, don't do anything, I'll be there in 10 minutes. And she just sat with me and it was okay, and it was great. I never would have been able to do that before ever, or to even share what I'm sharing right now on my podcast. But that happened. But you know what? I know it's I'm not the only one. And I know it could be much worse, right? And it was, it was much worse in other ways. Yeah. But that one took me for a loop. You know, it threw me for a loop. So that is a big one, asking for help. And then we are kind to others, so important, and we find and share creative outlets. And I did that by starting this podcast. Not thinking of it that way. I thought of it as I just want to get the word out. You do not have to do this alone. Yeah. And there are tools that you can utilize that will help you to get stronger and stronger one small step at a time. Or like Jennifer, who was on my podcast, says, one brave bite forward. One small brave bite forward at a time. And it's so true. It is. It's so, so true. So and then I want to share something else. If I can find it quickly, I have to share this. This, this, where where is it about October 7th? Do you remember? It was like a little ways in for sure. Well, this is what I wanted to say about it. Oh, I love this part too. There's so many parts. Wait, I'm gonna read this. The same is true. Okay, every year, all the time. When the calendar approaches New Year's Eve, or the Jewish New Year, or the Chinese New Year, or whatever it is what you observe, we can ask ourselves, how will I recognize and honor both the challenges and the gifts of the past? In fact, here are some good suggestions to consider. Reflect on what you missed and what you lost, seek out and focus on joy, and let nature be your teacher. And then, of course, you go on and on. Nature has been huge for me. Talk about that for a minute because I know you you now go to the mountains, which is my soul is so happy in the mountains, especially in Colorado.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Yes, nature. I've always been a tree hugger, even before it was fashionable.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Do you consider yourself a hippie?

SPEAKER_02 30:58

Latent.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Really? I would have never, never guessed that about you. In what way? In what way? Tell me. You're not a deadhead, are you?

SPEAKER_02 31:10

No. Okay, okay. I just need to know. No, no, no. I'm not a deadhead. I I have been to a couple shows.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

I mean, of course you can be a hippie without liking the dead.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

Yes. No, I just, I don't know. Crunchy granola, nature organic. Organic. Organic. Organic. Organic.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Yes. That's how I see myself.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

I like all that. All that's what I want. Free love. You know.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Yes. Oh, yes. You would have been great. Like picketing.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

Right? Make love, not war. Yes. Right. Me too. Me too. I feel like I'm kind of in the wrong like time. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

Do you feel like that sometimes?

SPEAKER_00 31:48

I do.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

I feel like that a lot. You do. But I was I was born right at the end of the 60s.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

So I was born in 70.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

Yeah, that was like my it was like in the decade, but at the tail end. So I don't know. It was my favorite period to study. I was a history major, and there's just something about the 60s that I really loved and resonated with.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

Right, right, right. So um But nature.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

We were talking about that.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Yeah, nature.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

And I yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

And then I want to go back to the organic part. But talk to me about that. Like, how do you feel when you're in Boca versus when you're in the mountains of Colorado? And I'm not saying Boca doesn't have its beautiful things, but n one thing doesn't fit all, right? So we have the ocean, which is so big and empowering, and it's a big reminder, right, of Mother Earth and Mother Nature, and that we're just this like little teeny thing, right? Yeah. But when I'm in the mountains, it's just different. It's so organic and peaceful and different. I can't explain it. You don't have to explain it because I can't. You know, you know. So do you know, can you talk about that? How it feels to be here and how it feels to be there? Because I think that's a very important point that when somebody is grieving or had a loss or tragedy or whatever it is, you have to be super aware of your environment. And you have to be super aware of who you're surrounding yourself with and the energy, right? That like whose energy fields. I have a friend who you're close with, and you might know who I'm talking about. And I'm all about boundaries, and I talk about boundaries all the time. It's like my favorite topic. But she literally changed my life when she said this. I'm wondering if you're gonna know who it is. She said, Um, I don't allow people into my home if their energy does not serve me. I don't want that energy in my sanctuary.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

You know? And I was like, really? And I thought about some certain people that I was like, I I mean, it has kind of a little bit of a problem with my husband. I'm like, yeah, I don't really love their energy. I don't really want them here. Do you know who I'm talking about? I'm gonna tell you after. Because I don't know if she would want everybody to know that. Yeah. So nature. Yeah, getting back to nature. Nature.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

Um, I thanks, Janine. Like I love the ocean and the the beach and but there's something about the mountains that speaks to my soul in a different way. And specifically trees and being in a forest. And I remember right after shortly after Yossi died, I had this calling to go to the Pacific Northwest. I don't know why. Really? I never made it there yet.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

Oh, I was gonna say yet.

SPEAKER_02 34:41

Yes. I haven't made it there yet, but I I and I again I have no language. All I could feel was I needed to be among the trees because my grief was too deep and too heavy, and it was too big for any human to handle. And it was only the trees who could handle my grief. So, fast forward probably like three years or so after he died, we were on a trip to Northern California and we went to one of the redwood forests. I walked through the threshold of the forest, and everyone was getting ready in our group to go hiking, and I took a quick right detour, and I sat next to a tree, and I wailed and weeped and screamed, and and my husband doesn't know what's going on because he's like ahead saying, Okay, come on, Aim, let's go, we're ready to go. And I'm tuning the entire world out, and all I did punching the ground, and it's like That's so good for you. I know, and finally one of my cousins sort of like saw that I was lagging, came over, sat with me, and she's like, you know, go ahead, we'll catch up. And uh it was so therapeutic. So I definitely recommend therapeutic.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

You want to hear something that's so interesting? I want to say two things about this. First of all, when I'm in Colorado, I don't know the name of the tree. I'm gonna show you a picture when we're done. But it like dances. Do you know what I'm talking about? Is it that are they alpines? I can't explain it, but they're all around the house where I stay. And we always, me and my friends, we always comment like, look at look at that tree. It's like dancing.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

And I actually last time I was there, I recorded it, and I often go back, like for a long time. Like I recorded it for like five minutes. And I just go back and it's it's so I love it.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

I do the same thing, I just record nature videos when I'm in Colorado.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

I do too, and then I end up having to delete them because I don't have enough storage. Yeah. Janine's laughing because we have had such issues with my storage. But that's what happens. And I'm like, one picture, 100 pictures are one picture, it's nature. Exactly. You know what I mean? Exactly. So, um, so that's number one. And I remember after Adam died, several months later, I went to my friend Laura's house and stayed there by myself. I j and it was not in season, so there was not a lot happening in Colorado. It was very quiet. A lot of the stores weren't open, it was so quiet, and I just sat there amongst the trees and the mountains, and I would sit by myself. And oh my gosh, I do have to tell you this. Did you ever see the show Party of Five?

SPEAKER_02 37:41

I have not.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

No, it's not called Party of Five. But I liked that show. I liked that show a lot. It's called, I don't even know why I said that. I haven't thought of that show in so long. Maybe because there's somebody in that show that's in this show. It's called Um, it was one of the first shows that I watched in during COVID. I'm going to think of it. But anyway, I wanted to be part of this friend group, right? I like I never was a huge TV watcher as an adult, but during COVID, I started watching TV, and it was so good. But the last day before, no, the day I was leaving to head home from Colorado, I was watching the season finale of the show, and the friends were around the man who was dying, and I was bawling my eyes out, and I am not um I don't um I don't cry easily, but after that happened, I felt lighter. I did, I felt lighter. I have to think of the name of this. Million Little Things. No, you've never seen that. I've never seen that. Oh my god, it's such a great show. And here's why when I said I wanted to be a part of that friend group, although now I I do have that, it's just not them, right? Is that they are they were like family.

unknown 39:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

And they, you know, like his friends were taking him to his chemo appointments and bringing in food and babysitting the baby. I don't I don't know, like all these different things. And I was like, that's that's really what family looks like. And we, I don't know about you, I don't know about your family at all. Um, and I have some very loving members in my family, so I don't want my family to listen to this and think, oh God, I wonder if she's talking about me. But um who but I have created a lot of family. Yeah. In my community. What is the point?

SPEAKER_02 39:40

I talk about is so there's seven pathways that I wanted you to talk about that in the book.

SPEAKER_00 39:45

Do you want to talk about how you laid how you laid your book out? I thought it was great. Oh, thank you. How you organized it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

So the first it's divided into two parts. The first part is why it's hard being human, and it ranges from not just grief, but grief in the largest sense, not just of from death, but could be loss of in a relationship. It could be a job loss, it could be loss of issues, divorce. Like there's lots of loss that we experience. So the first part is why of a pet.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

I think that's an important one. That's that's very hard.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

There's there are a lot of people. There's so many things that we grieve. Make it hard being human. And so the first part of the book is those challenges, and the second part are seven pathways to help us be more resilient and to renew. And one of the pathways is family, and I use the word family. So friends who are like family. Right. And in order to move forward and to be resilient, we need the support of others. Like you said, we can't, it's not meant to do this human thing alone.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

No. I would love for you to talk about the seven pillars.

SPEAKER_02 41:00

Sure. So the first one, you're gonna test my memory. The first one I have it in front of me, accepting what is. No, I think I got this. Accepting what is vulnerability.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

Accepting what is. Can we talk about each one as you go through them? Yeah, just briefly. Accepting what is and and letting letting go of the things that are not in our control.

SPEAKER_02 41:24

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

And surrendering.

SPEAKER_02 41:25

Yes. So accepting what your current reality is, not what you wish your reality would be.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

I like I like how you said that in the book. You said it like that in the book.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:37

Yeah. Because this is what we've got. Exactly. Like how are we going to move forward with what we have, but we can't move forward? And that's why I put it as the very first pathway. Is if you don't accept your current reality, it's going to be nearly impossible to move forward in a healthy way.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

Absolutely. Amen. Amen. So what's the second?

SPEAKER_02 41:57

The second one is vulnerability. And that is, as you already mentioned, like our ability to allow ourselves to be vulnerable and to show the fullness of who we are. Not just our Instagram or Facebook version.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

No.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

Right? Like what it really means. I mean, I remember years ago, someone had asked me if I would help co-facilitate a parenting group at our local synagogue when we were in the throes of raising our teenagers. And I said to her, like, I'd love to do it, but to be honest, I don't think anybody's gonna show up because nobody would be willing to let everybody else know in their community what's really going on behind closed doors. Right? No, my kid is perfect, captain of the football team, 1600 SAT, like you know, they wouldn't be willing to have a conversation about, oh my gosh, like he put a hole in our wall or you know, ran away and drove off in our car. People aren't gonna talk about that in a public forum. So I think it's important that we do now. Obviously with safe people. I'm not suggesting we become vulnerable and you know, not like what you spoke to your therapist about on your Facebook post. That's not what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

To be discerning with who you're trusting is so incredibly important, Amy.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

Yes. You need to you need to sort of test the water and make sure that you feel that your people are safe. And then once they're safe, you have to.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

I want to piggyback on that before we get to pillar three, which is I think it's also very important to be mindful that some people want to support you for their own motives. And it might look really good on the outside, but it may be to fill their cup and not yours. Yes. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_02 43:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

And and so that's why we have to be so careful.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

Yeah, we do. And trust your gut. Right. Like listen to that little voice inside of you that's like, you know, this feels right, this doesn't feel right.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

I'm so glad you said that. That's such an important point. And I can't ignore it anymore. I've become so attuned to my energy and when I'm around this person, what it feels like, and when I'm around this person, my energy guides me. It really does. It's pretty spot on. And it's the same as intuition or your gut. It's the same exact thing. It's important. It's really important. Right. Okay, so tell me pillar three.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

Three is self- self-care and self-love.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

One of my favorite topics. That is a big one.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

And that it's not being selfish to take care of yourself.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_02 44:49

So if you feel like you need to go to the museum and you don't know why, but you feel this very strong pull, and you're like, I have so many things to do, and how can I take off work for a half a day? Or how you know what? Figure out a way to listen to what your inner wisdom is telling you and take care of yourself.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

Well, I think that's such an important point. And I talk about this in terms of boundaries because it's not only setting boundaries for other people, it's setting boundaries with yourself. And you might well, I might really want to go listen to the crazy, the crazy fingers like Dead and Company, um, cover bands, right? At Crazy Uncle Mike's, but I'm exhausted and I have a headache, and I know that I just need sleep. So I have to sometimes say no to me. Yes. Right? And not it's not just about other people.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

Correct. And also in that process, which is where this I talk a lot about positive self-talk, is to say, like, okay, Jill, I know you're really tired and you really want to go. I'm so proud of you for taking care of yourself, as opposed to Do you do that to yourself?

SPEAKER_00 46:04

I do all the time. Um You have a nice voice in there.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

It's very loving. That must be practice with practice.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

Yes, of course. It all takes practice.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

I mean, uh, because it was not always this way, right? As opposed to saying to yourself, what's wrong with you, Jill? Don't you have enough energy? Seriously, like you're so lame. Why aren't you gonna just push yourself?

SPEAKER_00 46:24

You're preaching to the choir. I talk about this every day, but I'm so glad you're talking about this on the podcast because it's so important.

SPEAKER_02 46:33

Yeah, I mean, it's I say it's a good thing, like no one's ever like living in my head. They'd be like, wow, she's super chatty in there. Right. I love that. But it's learning to say, you know, something happened the other day, and I was like very upset with myself, and I sort of like my inclination was like, What? And then I was like, no, you did a great job today. It didn't work out, you didn't complete everything that you wanted to do. You know what? Tomorrow's another day. Keep up the good work.

SPEAKER_00 47:00

That's a big one. I always talk about giving yourself grace. We have we're human, and we have to give ourselves grace, and our best today may look very different tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 47:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:11

Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:12

Yeah. That was another uh something else I spoke about in the book is there was um this amazing woman who talked about like angels in human form. So the short of it is she was a speech therapist who came and helped Yossi and did some rehab with him. And they were so unlikely to be matched. Yossi was a rock and roll atheist, and this woman, Denise, was a devout Christian, country-loving musical person. And, you know, she would come to the house gratis and take care of him. And so we met up after Yossi died, we're going for a walk, and she starts talking to me and she says, you know, how are you doing? How you know, talk to me. Does Yossi come to you? And like she was very spiritual, but we approached our spirituality from different pathways. And she says to me, And you can do that.

SPEAKER_00 48:13

That's the that's an important point to make. We can be from totally different corners of the earth, and it's just about the connection, isn't it? Just about love and kindness.

SPEAKER_02 48:24

She was so beautiful and such an incredible human. She starts telling me the story about this I don't know, I don't know how old he was, is probably a middle-aged man. She wound up sort of like adopting him and he was homeless. And she said, one of the things he said to me was, you know what, Denise, tomorrow might be the best day of my life. And that sentiment from this homeless man who doesn't have a job and doesn't have family, and this woman was his family in town, just say tomorrow might be the best day of my life.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

Well, that qu sort of speaks to what I was gonna look for. And what I was talking about, what I was referring to before, was about October 7th. I want to find it, so I'm not gonna talk too much about it, but it was an it really stuck with me quite a bit. I don't know if you know it was about the wedding.

SPEAKER_02 49:19

Oh, the wedding, yes.

SPEAKER_00 49:21

So it was the contrast again between brutal and beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 49:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

Before you get to pillar number four, I just want to say this. I think it is so incredibly important as a person who has experienced tragedy and as somebody who's worked as a therapist. And by the way, I didn't mention this, I don't think at the beginning, as I'm sure everybody has picked up already. There's a Jewish uh there's a lot of Judaism in this book. However, you wrote it in a way that I find that anybody this would help anybody. I don't care the the religion. Truly. Thank you. Truly.

SPEAKER_02 49:59

That was my goal. Like I speak I had a feeling. Yeah, I speak from my faith tradition because that is what is familiar familiar to me and well, and this is what I didn't mention is that Amy is a rabbi, which is super important.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

And uh and somebody asked me when you became a rabbi if it was before or after Yossi's death.

SPEAKER_02 50:23

It was one month before he died.

SPEAKER_00 50:26

You're kidding.

SPEAKER_02 50:28

I wish I was.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

And you even continued with rabbinical school throughout that whole nine months?

unknown 50:34

I did.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

I can see I'm hitting a point right there in your face.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

I did.

SPEAKER_00 50:39

That had to have been what drove you, what motivated you? How did you how did you get up and sit in front of a computer and teach her and listen and with great difficulty? You must have been exhausted. Did you sleep at all?

SPEAKER_02 50:53

I did. Not well, but I slept. Yeah, it was I was coming towards the tail end, so I think I had maybe like two classes left. So my ordination was in January, so I had that fall semester beforehand to take classes. And I remember one of my favorite rabbis had set this class up for me. And he said, you know, I'm sort of coming out of retirement to teach it, and and then I found out that Yossi got sick, so I was just in touch with him. I said, I'm really sorry. I can't, I can't be at the class. And he said, please come to the class. You don't have to do anything except show up. I I made this class because I know you wanted this information. It was on the Tanya, so it's like Hasidic Jewish teaching. And and I remember going to class and I showed up for the class. Never in my life have I been as unprepared and as prepared as possible. I didn't read one source. I didn't, I literally showed up and that was it. And I remember thinking, like, I feel like such an imposter because here I am, and all of my rabbinic school friends are like know what's going on, and then was like, do I even like I was afraid to raise my hand and comment because I didn't want to say something that maybe was in the reading or wasn't in the reading, and then everybody would know that I was like, you know, the professor knew. And then I remember meeting someone at the ordination, and she was like, I'm so glad you were in the class. You added so much to it, so much wisdom. And I was like, It's all about perspective. Exactly. Like Bar Hashem thing like that.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

It's like after I went to Israel for the first time, with I went with Shandel, everything was oh brochashem. Yeah, Bar Hashem.

SPEAKER_02 52:49

Yeah, just thank God for that.

SPEAKER_00 52:51

I mean, it's so true. Yeah, it's that I think so true.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

So I with difficulty made it through, and my ordination was really was really hard. My husband wasn't there. Um he was at home with Yossi. Of course. My other two kids were there. My family of origin, God bless them. They all flew out, and I had like some very, very dear friends from Boca who also flew out.

SPEAKER_00 53:15

Where was it?

SPEAKER_02 53:16

It was out in Colorado.

SPEAKER_00 53:18

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 53:19

It's in Broomfield, Colorado.

SPEAKER_00 53:20

Oh, nice, nice, nice, nice. Yeah. Um, okay, so I love that. So pillar four.

SPEAKER_02 53:28

Okay, so we have four is family and family. So the supportive community that we spoke about. Right. The fifth pathway is finding beauty. And a lot of it deals with nature and the natural world, and and not just, but in music and in art and in all of those places where our soul finds a voice. I remember years ago, and I still can't quote who it's from. So if anybody knows who said this, please write in and let me know. If you have no art, your soul has no voice. And I remember hearing that so many years ago. And so when I was raising my kids, they all had to have at least one art form. So Yossi was the musician, Eton was in theater, and Bot Ella was in photography.

SPEAKER_00 54:21

What's your daughter's name? Bot Ella. Oh. I love that. Thank you. Going back to what you just said about finding the beauty, that that's I wanted to touch on that and again how life is beautiful and brutal at the same time. I think it is so incredibly imperative that we do look for the beauty in this world because there is so, so, so much. And I also, like you, a lot of it is through nature, a lot of it is through music. And now I feel like, and I feel like when I have more time, I'm gonna get even more into it. But like I've been like creative creating these, like this digital content, but I don't have a lot of time, right? Like I still have a child at home. Right. Um, who's 18 and and again very independent and self-sufficient? But you know, as a mom, there's like a lot of things you have to remember. Like, oh, did I make that appointment? Did I do that? Did I does she have her graduation gap? Like, I don't know. And she handled her all of that, thank God. Um, but you know, there's always something to do, right? And like you, I too have I have three children, but I have two others than just my one at home. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? All right, so fourth was family, fifth is beauty, finding it.

SPEAKER_02 55:44

Fifth is beauty, sixth is faith. And this is always a really touchy one. I would never tell somebody what to believe, but I do stress having a belief system that will serve you before the crisis arrives. Because if you are human living on the planet, I promise you. You're gonna have a crisis. You're gonna have a crisis. And so what does that look like? Like if you are not able or don't have faith in a greater power, however you want to describe that. The universe, the energy that moves throughout the space-time continuum, your higher self. Like if that doesn't work for you, there's another understanding of emuna, which is the word for faith in Judaism, that you can have faith and have trust in, maybe in other people or in your community. So there just needs to be some element of faith that I really think is crucial for resilience and renewal.

SPEAKER_00 56:49

My family wasn't very religious, and uh, it was more, we were more culturally Jewish. And we I mean I did get bot mitzvah, but it wasn't something, you know, our household wasn't of, you know, I want to teach you these Jewish values, and you know what I mean? And I don't know if I did believe in God or something bigger, you know, what when I was growing up, my husband used to be like, I don't know how you don't believe in God. I'm like, I I don't know, I'm still figuring it out. But everything I've been through and prior to that time in working in the field that I do, and I work a lot with people who suffer from addiction and drug use, and and I've I've seen some some miracles. And not only that, I do get signs from Adam. So how can I possibly believe if I'm getting signs from Adam that there is not something bigger out there? It's imp it to me, it's impossible, but you guys believe whatever you want. I just know for me it's been very helpful. And knowing, and I don't know what you believe, and you can tell me this, that you know, I'm and I I think I just said this on my last podcast because the last person that I spoke to lost a child at eight years old. And um, and I was I think I was talking about this with her, but I I say this a lot, that I feel like there is a reason that my soul, our souls came together, you know, mine and Adam's, and I'm so grateful for that time. And I once had somebody on my podcast, her, you should, it's amazing. Her name is Danica. She, I have to tell you about this really quick. I met her through my son. Sh she works at the same company, they're on the same team in New York City. They were sort of talking, and she started whole, she holds gratitude dinners once a month in New York City. And my son went to one and he found out she holds these dinners as a result of losing her brother. And she's, I think, 23, by the way. At Duke University, she her project was she traveled all around the world, learned how different cultures approach death and gratitude, well, not death so much, but I think gratitude. And as her project, she started a class at Duke that is still there. The curriculum continues. Yeah. My goodness. And she said on this podcast, I can she said, We are not owed anything. I am so grateful that I had my brother for those 20 years, this amazing, extraordinary man. I got to be with him for 20, I think I don't know how many years it was. It was, you know, it was a lot. And as a 23-year-old.

SPEAKER_02 59:30

I mean old soul.

SPEAKER_00 59:32

Yeah. So I do feel like our souls came together for a reason, and his soul is traveling and doing some other work that needs to be done. And that doesn't take away from the sadness or missing him, or of course wishing he didn't have to suffer. I mean, that that's hard, as you know, right? Seeing that. Though I I believe that he is he is traveling, doing something really important. I wanted to ask you this. I know you said in your book, you don't like the word transition, you don't like pass away. There was another one you didn't like. You just now can say, My son died. And I have a hard time saying that. I find myself saying passed away, which I don't even think is right. I don't even know. He didn't pass away, he moved on to a different sphere, right? Yeah. So getting to my point, which was when he was what, dying, did you bring in, did you bring in like any interventions so that it could be peaceful, like I don't know, sound healing or like a death doula or like I don't know, anything.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:47

Um I have always been interested in I like to call it complimentary, not alternative.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:55

Complimentary is great.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:56

Energy healers and Right, energy healers.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:59

Any of that?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:00

Yeah, all of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:01

You did?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:02

Yeah, all of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:03

Throughout the nine months?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:04

Um mostly no, yeah, yes, throughout the nine months.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:08

What did you do? I'm curious.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:10

Um mostly energy healing, and I had people come to the house, and he had a music therapist who came. Oh, that's nice. You know, there was sort of like the practical that woman I mentioned, a speech therapist, and um we did some hypnosis recordings with him and different music techniques and I love that.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:37

I can tell you're a really good mom. I can tell. We're gonna have to wrap up in a minute, but I want to ask you one thing, which is not a quick answer, but maybe you'll have to make it somewhat of a quick answer. Your other kids. And where did Yossi fall in the birth order? So my So your middle now is the oldest.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:58

My middle is the oldest.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:00

How are they doing? How are your other kids doing? I know that's such a general question. How are they doing? I mean, every day's different, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:07

Well, thank God, right now, they're in a really good place. Where are they?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:11

What are they doing? How old are they?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:13

It's 25 and 23.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:16

Oh, I have a 25 and 23 year old.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:19

One one's in Nashville and the other's in San Diego. And they're both working and adulting, and I'm super, super proud of them. And it was a lot of work and not easy, and you know, their brother's death shows up in ways that it will continue to show up in their lives. And they're taking care of themselves, they have great self-care, and you taught them well.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:47

You did, you taught them well. Thank you. Um I want to end with reading this one little it it really stuck with me, and I think everybody should hear it. So the October 7th attack left me in shock. PTSD, ancestral trauma, born of thousands of years of repeated attempts to destroy the Jewish people. Ba ba ba. Well, conflict is not unfamiliar to this region, this level of of terrorism, infiltrations. Okay, so all Israelis know that they live in a rough neighborhood, and yet they have managed to live and thrive for over seven decades. This attack shook them to their core. Their sense of safety and security shattered. What could we do with this new reality? The first, this is real really what I love. The first answer came when I was speaking with a teacher of mine who lives in Jerusalem Jerusalem. I asked her how she was, and she replied, Up until ten minutes ago, not so good. And you said, What shifted? And she said, or he said, I don't know, uh, I just up until ten minutes ago, not so good. What shifted? I just witnessed a bride and groom walking down the street preparing for their wedding. That's so beautiful. Feelings are it things are so temporary, right? Life is so temporary, and every feeling and nothing stays the same, really.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:12

It's true. There's actually a very beautiful teaching from the Talmud, and it basically raises the question of what happens if there's a traffic jam between a funeral procession and a wedding. Who goes first?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:25

The wedding. The wedding goes first. The wedding goes first.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:28

The wedding goes first.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:29

Oh, I think I just got the chills.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:32

Me too, because that's how we move forward, right? It says in the Torah in the book of Deuteronomy, Uvaharta Bachhayim, like choose life. So when the wedding procession goes forward, we choose life. We still have the respect for those who are no longer among the living, and the bridal procession goes first.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:54

That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. And thank you for being vulnerable and uh just agreeing to come on and sharing you know what was and is the most difficult thing I'm sure you've ever had to manage.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:11

Yes. Thank you. And the seventh pathway is miracles. Oh, seventh. Oh my gosh, I thought we did the seventh. So that was the sixth was faith. The seventh is miracles, and I just wanted to get that in.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:25

Yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:26

How they work and where we find them and when we open our eyes to the beauty that is in the watching and listening. And we have faith that there's, as one of my good friends says, someone upstairs directing traffic.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:38

Yeah. You you you have to be open to the miracles though. Yeah. And notice them, right? Yeah. Amy, thank you so much. Thank you. I appreciate you so much. I can't wait to continue the conversation. You know, in the future, moving forward, because you know, unfortunately, I can relate to much of what you've been through and you can relate to much of what I've been through. Obviously, it's not the same, and there's so many differences. But I would I do look forward to talking with you more about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:07

Yes, thank you. Thanks for watching. Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Thank you. I enjoyed speaking with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:12

Yeah, me too. And remember, folks, the Present Moment Project is intended for informational and inspirational purposes only. The views and opinions shared by the hosts and guests are their own and do not constitute medical, legal, or professional advice. Please consult a qualified health care professional before making any medical or wellness decisions. This podcast is not a substitute for professional care, no matter how wide we may stand in this present moment.