Moms Off Script
Megg & Mere | Two Moms, One Podcast, Zero Manual | A Community for moms who don't always have it figured out and are writing the script as they go.
Moms Off Script
MOS E20: “You commit to loving this child”
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Welcome to Mom's Off Script, a podcast for moms who are just trying to figure it out. This week Megg & Mere are joined by Ciara and Matt Beebe to share their fertility journey. Ciara and Matt explained the challenges and what it took to expand their family.
CREDITS: Original content: Megg Abelein & Meredith Finch
Set design, videography: Megg Abelein & Meredith Finch
Music: Matt Beebe
Photography: Michelle Montinieri
Graphic Design: Alexia Dulieu
Editing & Production: Megg Abelein
How are babies made, or whatever? You know, when we say like two parents love each other very much, whatever that conversation goes, we're gonna add in like, oh, and sometimes sometimes people's bodies don't have exactly what they need to make a baby, and and they need to get help from other people. And so we had to get help from somebody else, and daddy is still your daddy, and and but you have a separate donor. And that was like the word choice they said to use.
SPEAKER_02You ready? I am ready. This is gonna be such a good one.
SPEAKER_07This is gonna be such a great episode. Um hey guys, I'm Matt. And I'm Mara. And welcome back to another episode of Mom's Off Script. We are so excited about today's episode.
SPEAKER_02We have two guests today joining us. Yeah, I'm really excited that Sierra and Matt are gonna be here to talk about their fertility journey.
SPEAKER_03And I don't even want to waste any time. Let's just get them on here and get into it because I'm so excited to get to talk about those of them.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, we hope you enjoyed our interview. All right, please join me in welcoming to the podcast our first ever virtual guest. A two-time graduate of Virginia Tech and current high school math teacher. She is a Jigsaw puzzle enthusiast who prefers 500-piece puzzles over a thousand-piece puzzles since becoming a mom. She is an avid reader, board gamer, and mom's off script super fan. Joining us with her husband, a washed-up college swimmer from the esteemed State University of New York at Ferdonia, current community and school age therapist, a bilingual dungeon master, fluent in both English and Spanish. He is the man behind the mom's offscript theme music and my longest friend dating back to the summer of 1995 and the Stony Creek Pool Club. It is my joy to welcome Sierra and Matt BB to mom's off script.
SPEAKER_01Yay!
SPEAKER_07What an introduction.
SPEAKER_01I know, I know.
SPEAKER_07Thank you guys for being here. We're so happy. Yeah, we're so excited. We were here to talk about like your fertility journey today. So I want to start by just saying thank you for taking the time to do this and have this conversation and be very vulnerable with us.
SPEAKER_03This is such a cool perspective to be able to bring to the podcast. And I think it's the kind of story that a lot of people are going to relate to. So we're so glad that you guys are here.
SPEAKER_01I think that's what's really interesting is I I I gotta think that this is more common than what maybe people maybe lead on to believe because I don't, I just like there's there's a stigma with it kind of. And so I think it probably happens a lot, but it's I think generally people don't want to talk about it as much. It's a painful, difficult thing.
SPEAKER_04So and we feel strongly about sharing our stories.
SPEAKER_01I tell everyone like my sperm gets discussed often in a casual conversation.
SPEAKER_04It's uh it's a dinner table. I might say too much.
SPEAKER_07So I do agree with you, Matt. Like, I do think it is more um common than we hear about because of the stigma. And I do think like the lot of fertility issues or fertility conversations that I have with same-sex couples um end up being a very similar story to what you guys are telling. I'm just really excited to get into kind of that journey and hear your story and share it with our listeners. I mentioned this in the intro, Matt. You are the man behind our music. Talk to us a little bit about your love of music or like how you kind of got into that and how you created the mom's own screen theme music. And have you done this before? Have you created podcast music? What a question.
SPEAKER_01Um, yes, um, years ago, I don't even know when. We had a podcast together.
SPEAKER_06Um did you have a podcast with my husband?
SPEAKER_01Yes, your husband and I and another, another dear friend all had a podcast together called The Torrent. And I made the um theme song for that too. And what's really interesting is like I don't, Meg, you probably know a little bit, but like the music I generally like and the music I generally make is like more quiet and chill and kind of weird, like just you know, not not like I don't know, not like mainstream, I guess. And so when I make music like this, that's gotta be like high energy and like this is about to start, like get ready.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01Um, but but yeah, I love music. I I was in like banned growing up. I played percussion, I learned a little bit of like the mallets and stuff, um, but like not anything super serious, no like piano lessons since I was six or anything. So I've I've started that later in life since college uh in grad school. So you know it's it's really accessible now. There's YouTube tutorials for everything and yeah, cool books now explaining like music theory for people who don't know anything about it. So yeah, it's a fun hobby now. So I'm I'm glad when I can use that hobby to help people like you both do.
SPEAKER_03I was gonna say we're the we're the grateful beneficiaries of that talent now. So we're appreciating it.
SPEAKER_01And I'm honored you asked me. So I'm really happy to do that. I keep making little tracks for you here and there. I'm gonna try and do it.
SPEAKER_07I know I love it. And the Christmas track. The Christmas track, that's what I was gonna say.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was like back and forth. I was like, is this too much Christmas? Is this not enough? So um, yeah, glad, yeah. I'm really happy to make it. I'm glad you all appreciate it.
SPEAKER_04Sierra, you read any good books lately? Yeah, I read this book called Atmosphere, just finished it. This is the book, this is the author that wrote The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo, right? Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01Oh, it's the same author.
SPEAKER_04Have you read that book? I read it for a book club years ago, maybe like eight years ago.
SPEAKER_03This is the one you just finished. I just finished it, but I'm reading between the lines of Sierra's tone and feeling like maybe it wasn't your like number one book of that year.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, like everyone in my book club loved it, and I just wasn't into it. And it was so long ago, I don't remember why, but it was like one of the first books our book club chose to read. The whole time I was like, is this book almost done? I I like I had a hard time following it. I was not invested with the characters. Oh my gosh. And I know, I know I'm like an odd man out. Everyone I talk to loves it, and I just I wasn't into it.
SPEAKER_07Did you all make a good audiobook?
SPEAKER_04Should I put it on my list of audiobooks? I so so I think that might have been my problem, though, is I did it was early in my audiobook um stage of my life, and so it was one of the first audiobooks I read. And I I think I wasn't good at paying attention to audiobooks back then. And I think that was not good for my reading.
SPEAKER_03I so I finished I finished it like a week ago now, and I have had the worst book hangover from it because I loved it. Loved it. And now here's the thing, reading is a very subjective thing. Like I have I have done the same thing as Ushira where someone has been like raving about a book and I've read it and been like, I don't get it. I just, it's not for me. I've I didn't finish it, whatever. Right. This book, it might, it's like for me, it was one of my favorite books I've ever read. So I had texted our neighbor friends and I was like, I don't care what you're reading. The next book you're reading is this book. So good. I loved it.
SPEAKER_07I don't really want to make this about me, but I was the wife of the best man at your wedding.
SPEAKER_01That is true.
SPEAKER_07That is a very important role, I think. I think it's one of the most important roles. It was a beautiful day back at your wedding in the summer of 2022 when I was secretly pregnant with my second, with our daughter. Since then, you guys have had a baby. So, first off, congratulations. Thank you. Her birthday is around this time, maybe?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, we've almost survived our first year.
SPEAKER_07Fantastic. Congratulations to that. Congratulations. Very, very exciting. Um, okay, so the wedding's over. What was the process that the two of you went to to kind of decide it was time to start your family?
SPEAKER_04I always wanted kids, but I knew that Matt was on the fence, slash maybe leaning towards snow. And I was okay with that. Like if Matt never wanted kids, I knew that that was what I was marrying.
SPEAKER_07Like you had turned you had had that conversation prior to getting married. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I don't remember like what kind of started this. At some point, we decided to go to a therapist just to like talk about things, our feelings around starting a family and if it was right for us, and Matt's fears around it. And then we came to the conclusion at the end that that would be a good thing for us to try.
SPEAKER_03Amazing. I think that's so great. I think a lot of couples sometimes wait till after or like wait till there's a problem to go to therapy and like have to work through it. But the fact that you guys kind of use that as a jumping ground to decide what your path was going to be is I have so much respect for that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, thanks. So I I I mean, I am a therapist and I have my own therapist and I've had seen many different therapists over the years just because I love it. So I think we kind of felt like, all right, we we should talk the talk and walk the walk.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01So that was helpful for us. We realized, like, okay, let's try it. I mean, I work with kids too. I used to be a teacher with young children, and I currently now I'm a therapist for young children. And I'm just like, I don't know, I've got so many kids I work with every day. I I think I'm good, but to not have my own kids. But it turns out we were like, okay, let's go for it, let's try it.
SPEAKER_04So we were like trying a bit, and um months had gone by, and I had like my annual um gynecologist appointment, and I had mentioned that we were like we were trying to have kids, and we'd only been trying for like six months, and the my doctor was like, that's like completely normal, like you shouldn't worry about anything, but because you're getting old, we'll do just some like very baseline tests, and so they did um some blood work for me, and then she was like, you know, 50% of infertility is on the men, so you may as well just have your husband get a um scene analysis. Yeah, so then we got a um a sperm kit on the internet, so Matt didn't have to go into the office, at home, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like really at home cube um sperm tester, and we're like, oh, so cool, this will be fun.
SPEAKER_04You can honestly really cool. Like science is amazing.
SPEAKER_07So wait, wait, wait. The fact that you can do that is amazing.
SPEAKER_03It is not just like a collection kit. This was like you're gonna do the test in your home, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, a collection kit, a magnifying like computer sort of thing.
SPEAKER_01I know we should have brought it so we can show you guys it's literally like a cube, it's like this big, and you get a little like uh what is it called? The glass petri dish. What is oh the slide, yes, yes. Thank you, Mara. And you you like do this thing with a sample, you put a little dye in it, and you put it on there, and you slide it into the machine.
SPEAKER_04Don't you have to like swirl it around or something? Yeah, but like that's just all like regular. Yeah, you're like a science science.
SPEAKER_01That's so cool. It was, it was cool, and you slide it into this little thing, and it's like analyzing, takes might take 10 minutes, don't turn your phone off, and then you're like Bluetooth to it, and so we're like, Oh, this is so cool, we're scientists, and uh, we're getting excited, and we get the result, and it's like your sperm test result. It's like whoa, in all bold red, like caps, letters. And I was like, Oh, okay, like all right, feeling kind of attacked, and then it's like, here's a video, and we're looking and we're like, this doesn't seem like a video, like this is just like a weird photo. Like, what is this? Nothing, yeah, like nothing, like you could tell it was not even like little dead sperm, like it was like it was like slow, like waves, and then we're like, that's weird, and then we went on Amazon to like check and we saw reviews that people had left and like videos of their own sperm that they posted in a review, which was probably weird to do, but was really helpful for us because we saw and then we were like, Oh no, wow, oh no, like like those little videos are like bonkers, that's like static. There's so much movement, there's sperm everywhere, and um, ours was like my ours, mine was nothing, it was still, and we're like, oh no, that was the night where it was like, Oh, fun, so cool. We're doing a test to be like, something's really, really wrong.
SPEAKER_03That's such a 180. So, like, it's it's interesting to me that you started doing some testing through CC's appointment, right? And then you did this at home cat. So you're in the privacy of your own home. Like, talk me through that moment where you're realizing, like, oh my gosh, like it went from this fun thing to like, wait a second, this is this might be a problem.
SPEAKER_04I think we were trying to be optimistic though. We were like, you know, like we're not scientists or doctors, like maybe this was a faulty test, maybe we got bad products or whatever, and didn't follow the rules or something. Yeah, like we didn't swirl it long enough. So it was like really, really I don't know, scary almost like, oh my gosh, like what does this mean? But it was also like, we're not doctors, let's not jump to conclusions and let's actually see a doctor about this.
SPEAKER_01It was shocking, and we're like, let's just see what happens. It's so drastically different from what we see online, let's just see what happens. And so we agreed to go to a uh like an actual fertility place and um get additional testing.
SPEAKER_04So, so we sent like Matt had another test done, and then um, and then the doctor tried calling me like three times and did not leave a message or anything. No, and I was like, obviously this is bad news, and she's like confirming what we already knew. Oh god, yeah. And then and then um I think I saw her for like a follow-up appointment or something, and she was like, Your husband needs to go to a urologist.
SPEAKER_07So fast forward, you go to the urologist, you figure out all these results. Matt, this obviously like must have been very physically and emotionally stressful. How did you work through that emotional journey like for yourself, and then also support CC in this thing that was a shift in the plan. Like a shift in the plan, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, definitely a shift in the plan. Wow, yeah, good question. I mean, I love um therapy, I think it's great. So that was super, super helpful to process, um, to use it to help the process. Also, like pretty solidly uh Buddhist, like Zen Buddhist, you know, studied that with a teacher for many years, and that was so, so helpful because it was kind of like on a day-to-day basis, what does it really mean to be biologically related to a being that you are raising? That was kind of what for me at least, maybe, maybe other people, it's really important, and blood is really important. But for me, it was just like, what is what does that actually mean? If someone came to you, uh, any of any any parent and said, actually, just want to let you know we did a test and your child is not actually related to you on a day-to-day basis. Uh, you commit to loving this this being, this child, and and commit to raising them for the rest of your life, pretty much. And for me, at least that was just my mindset. It's just like, okay, so you know, I love Sierra and she really wants a child. And the the big thing was the urologist said, like, hey, we could really like dig in there and try and find some sperm and do IVF, and it's really expensive, and it's and there's some surgeries we can get to see if there's anything blocked or anything. And then I was like, Well, what about like a sperm donor? And he's like, Oh, like, yeah, that's way easier. If you guys are cool with that, like, totally like nothing even really needs to happen. I just sign off on it, and then Sierra goes through with the rest of the process. So at that time, I was just kind of like, you know what? I don't know. Like, I just felt like, okay, I mean, whatever, whatever. I'm gonna love this child because it's mine and Sierra's child, and that's that's gonna be that. That's gonna be good enough for me.
SPEAKER_03I feel like there's an element to the story here that's like chosen love versus like faded love, right? Like a biological love is like, oh, you have to love your kid because it's yours. And that, you know, that's that's a thing. Of course, I'm sure people feel that way. But the fact that you were like, that actually is not that important to me, and I will love this child because it's mine in CC's, regardless of the DNA in its body, like that's a really powerful choice to make. And I think that's that's you know, really moving to hear you talk about it that way is like the choice to have this child regardless of biology, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, I appreciate you bringing that up because you're right. I remember thinking about that. Like, how loved will our baby feel when she's older? And and we do tell her, because that's another thing. We'll get into that too, probably later. But like, we want her to be aware of this, and how cool for her to be like, wow, this person is technically, you know, like technically not even blood related to me, whatever that means. But he chose and he chose me, he knows me and chooses to raise me as his own for the rest of his life. Like, how nice is that? So I was like, okay, whatever. Like, let's just do it.
SPEAKER_07Sierra, same kind of question. How did you work through your emotions kind of after Matt got his original testing? And then how did you support Matt through that?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think initially it was fear of the unknown. Like I had pictured us having a child one way, and then knowing that it was like pretty much off the table. What is that gonna look like? I think Matt and I like talked about our options, and I think just like throughout the whole process, we were very open with each other about how we were feeling. Because the process took a very, very long time to get Matt's results verified, make sure I was good enough to go through IUI and whatever. And um, there'd just be days that I was really upset by it because I didn't know what our future was gonna look like or how long this is gonna take or whatever. I think Matt and I just talked to each other and communicated days that we were feeling sad about it, just talked it through, cried with each other. Yeah. Yeah. So I think we just leaned on each other for emotional support.
SPEAKER_03There's things like that in life, I feel like like your wedding day and having a kid and buying a house that like you imagine going a certain way. That like there's there's this quote unquote right way that it's done that you see in movies and you read in books, and when you're based on that path, that you're like, I can't go down this path. I now need to go down this other path that I know nothing about. Like you said, it's just that fear of the unknown. And it's so great that you guys are talking about like you know, we leaned on each other and we forged down this path. And I'm curious if you considered other alternatives. It sounded like Matt, you were kind of saying, like, you know, once we floated the idea of the sperm donor, it was like, oh, that's so easy. We're like, all right, let's just do it. No. Were there things that you talked about, or did you weigh different options, or was that kind of a no-brainer for you?
SPEAKER_01I think for me, well, first of all, I don't think we could have afforded IBF. I don't think it was.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, IBF was kind of always off the table because I had a huge fear of needles at the time and like I wasn't gonna inject myself. And I have so much respect for women who do that because I don't think that's easy. Yeah. So then it was like a sperm donor. We talked about adoption, um, but that's also an expensive process, right? Which is still not like off the table. We could adopt in the future. Um, we've like talked about fostering too, because that's like a different doorway into adoption.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, I just think like, I don't know, the like as soon as I brought it up with the doctor, he was like, Oh, like just the way he was just like, oh my god, dude. He basically, I'm pretty sure he was like, dude, that would be so much easier. Like he was a really children.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So that was a big point for me. I was just like, oh, okay, okay. Um, but also like I want to say, I don't want to diminish the the pain and the um just the like the kind of like the suffering. Like, I don't want to make it seem like, oh yeah, it was not a big deal. Like it was a big deal, and it took like Sira was saying, it took a long time to process. We had a long time because everything takes forever. So if if anyone is going through this, like it is super hard. And you know, you have this idea, and then you realize I'm not actually gonna have a child biologically related to me like ever. And and I thought I was like, that's a hard thing to deal with, and you have to deal with your own identity and like what does that mean to you? And and functionally, what does that mean?
SPEAKER_04And it's just like I will add at the time when we were going through this, we had friends who were going through it on the other side with an egg donor. And I think that that was helpful for us to know that they're okay with it, and I think the more that it's talked about, the more like the less stigma there is around it. And I think that's why we feel strongly about sharing our story with people.
SPEAKER_07I know people that have been on fertility journeys have some like hoops to jump through and some things along the process that are required, but whether it's insurance or whatever doctor's practice they are going to, things like that. Were there any requirements through insurance or your doctors that you kind of had to do in order to move along with the IUI journey?
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So once we were, I don't know, classified as infertile.
SPEAKER_05I don't know if you like barren.
SPEAKER_03Infertile.
SPEAKER_04Yes, once my husband was um identified as barren, declared barren, um, my doctor referred us to a fertility clinic, and they um we had to like meet with them just to like agree that that Matt has no sperm and we can like move on with the process. Matt had like three tests done. Yeah, they're like, we really need to make sure there's nothing here for you.
SPEAKER_01I was fine with it though. I was like, maybe this time it's gonna be all right.
SPEAKER_04And so after all of those tests, they're like, okay. Okay, so like you've decided to use a sperm donor. I had like a bunch of blood tests to do, ultrasounds, and like they were checking everything out for me. And I kind of thought, like, okay, like we picked out a sperm donor and I'm all checked out. So like we'll just move on and like doctor will inseminate me.
SPEAKER_01Well, he'll use a sample to inseminate you. Oh shill.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, but but even after all of that, we had to go through genetic testing with my genes and the donors' genes. And I had already had genetic testing done. And the sperm banks also do genetic testing. And so we had to meet with a genetic counselor so they can tell us that our genes match up. And then this genetic counselor said our genes don't match up because he has some gene that I was never tested for. So then I had to go back to do more genetic testing. Oh my gosh. And then, you know, they email you the results, and then they expect you to have another appointment so that the genetic counselor can tell you what the email said, which Matt and I were very annoyed with. And then picking a sperm donor was a a process because I was gonna ask about that too.
SPEAKER_07What was their process like? Did you literally get a binder and flip?
SPEAKER_01We needed to talk about it because it's it's weird. Um there's no like binder now, it's like an app or it's like a website.
SPEAKER_04Like if either of you guys did online, is it like well? Imagine that.
SPEAKER_01There's I don't think you actually swipe, it's it's like a it's like a database of sperm donors, and but um and they have bios and stats, and the pic you see you have pictures of them, but because they don't want you walking around and being like, wait a minute, I know that guy. They give you pictures of the donor as a young child and like a toddler. Uh so that you can get like the a sense of the features that they have, yeah. And like what their facial structure might look like or whatever, but they don't want you to give they don't want to give you, I think, like a baby picture because then you'll be like, Well, this baby looks exactly like the donor, and they don't want to give you an adult picture so you'll be able to identify them.
SPEAKER_03I also feel like baby pictures like babies change by the minute, it feels like so. If you give me a baby picture, I'd be like, who knows? In two days you look different. It's not good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, good point. Maybe that's also why, but it would just it felt weird. Like the thing was like, this person is uh has a handsome, has a handsome face and strong jawline, he's tall with this stats and this. And I'm just like, it's so weird because you're looking at pictures of children and it just feels so uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_04They give you a personality test, like you see what their personality type is. You can also like filter, so we would like filter to like brown curly hair with brown eyes and like a darker complexion, like Matt is. Um, but then you also filter by like blood type, you can filter by types of genes that they have. We had to filter with people who are CMV negative, which is like a part of my blood type.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_04Which if I if we picked a donor that was CMV positive, I would have to sign off paperwork saying, like, I know that this is a risk, which is interesting because like if Matt happened to be CMV positive, like I'm not signing off paperwork when I get married to be like, yeah, I'm I'm picking a risky partner for my child.
SPEAKER_07Oh, yeah, that's so true. So interesting.
SPEAKER_01It is, and it's a that's one another thing that's a little annoying for all the people who have fertility issues. It's just like random people hook up and have children all the time, and they don't have to do anything. And it's just like we're trying to be like really proactive and do all this stuff, and we had to do all like well, you had to do all this genetic testing, and it's just like I get it, liability, I get it. But it's just another annoying layer of the amount of testing you have to wait to get done, and then you can finally go on with the next set of testing, and so it was annoying.
SPEAKER_03That's so such an important point that I don't really feel like I've ever had an appreciation for. It's not just like, oh, this is a pain to go through because it's a lie, and like it's the juxtaposition of that versus someone who's just like, oh, we're had a baby, like with nothing or like with no checks, and you just decide one day we're gonna have a baby and you have a baby, and you're like when you're going through genetic testing and flipping through the app to decide on your donor, and then you have to sign this and sign that, and you're like, why does no one else have to do this? Like, why does it have to be like that juxtaposition must be so challenging to navigate? Right.
SPEAKER_07And then, like to add to your point from a few minutes ago, Sierra, like you get an email with these results, and then you have to like go to another appointment where you have to pay a copay or like hit your deductible to like have a conversation that you know the results of. So it it the continuous like it continues to add like a mental stress as well as like a financial stress on the situation. You know what though?
SPEAKER_03I hope that your daughter one day, like you were talking about how one day you'll kind of explain to her the this this background and that you know, hopefully she'll have an appreciation for the fact that you kind of chose her and all of that, just despite any biological background. But I hope she also has an appreciation for like you guys wanted her so bad, like so much.
SPEAKER_02You'll know ever, right?
SPEAKER_05We'll never we'll never stop reminding her.
SPEAKER_02Never remind me. You did everything possible to have her, and I think that will mean a lot in a healthy way, right, Matt. In a healthy way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Do you know what we bought a miracle?
SPEAKER_07Um, it's gonna be in therapy, also.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Along this process, we did also see a second therapist. Okay, we're um well in the therapy world.
SPEAKER_01Well, we had to see this, yeah. But this one they required it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, the fertility clinic, if you're using donor sperm or donor egg, has you see a therapist just to talk about like what that means. And that was a very interesting conversation.
SPEAKER_01If you would like to get into that, to be honest, I love that. Yeah, that was very helpful. What was interesting about that? Well, she had like a specialty in this, and she was kind of talking about how like the psychology that we know now and the identities and stuff like that. Like basically 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 40 years ago, this type of situation probably happened a ton. But the it the advice then that doctors gave was don't ever tell your child about it. Just say that you're their child and you're biologically related. They're like, you'll they'll never know, just it'll be too difficult for them. So, yeah, so the the advice was basically just like ignore it, like just pretend it didn't actually happen. And so I have a feeling that like a bunch of people are going to be finding out, like, oh, wait a minute. Like, I don't think the doctors back then realized there'd be 23andMe and all this other stuff.
SPEAKER_04The therapist that we saw, like half of her job is counseling couples like us, and the other half of her job is counseling adults who are just now finding out about this because of DNA testing.
SPEAKER_07That's wild. So then what was the advice, or like what did you guys talk through about telling your daughter?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, basically they said the advice now, like what seems to benefit children going children of like our child is to be available to talk about it as often as they need and as early as they need. More than that, I don't remember exactly the advice other than just us making our plan. But like as soon as kids start talking about, oh, how are babies made or whatever, you know, and we say like two parents love each other very much, whatever that conversation goes, we're gonna add in like, oh, and sometimes sometimes people's bodies don't have exactly what they need to make a baby, and and they need to get help from other people. And so we had to get help from somebody else, and daddy is still your daddy, and and but you have a separate donor, and that was like the word choice they said to use like biological father is what I think medically might be used, but like that's too generous to the person who is the donor. They don't they're not doing anything, they're not up all night, like with this baby.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, they can't have father in their title, exactly. Very different than like a stepfather and a biological father who's maybe around but absent.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yeah, yeah. So, like the word that we think we're gonna use is like your donor. You have a donor. Um, oh yeah, you have a donor and you have your dad. Because like when she turns 18, I think she's able to get the information for the donor.
SPEAKER_07Was that something that like when you were flipping through um to were did different donors have like the option to see the child or see the child when they were 18? Like, how did that work?
SPEAKER_04I think it was the whole clinic. I think it was like you had to, yeah.
SPEAKER_01You think I think to be in that, what was it, like Seattle or whatever? Yeah, to be in that bank, you have to agree to that. And we got, I think I found out later that Sierra paid a little extra to get extra details about the donors, which was a big decision. So I appreciate it. But I was like, everyone gets audio files of their their initial.
SPEAKER_04It was like 20 extra dollars and well worth it. It's fine.
SPEAKER_01I just found out, I was like, you paid for that? You got Bumble Plus for Sperm Bank.
SPEAKER_04Um, Matt, you use okay keeper plus to find out.
SPEAKER_03Okay, let's start off.
SPEAKER_01Move on. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Wait, so let me be clear. You they all the sperm donors agreed to what exactly at this bank.
SPEAKER_01That like their their updated information would could be made available to the two potential babies that they help create um if they want to reach out in the future.
SPEAKER_04Also, according to this genetic counselor that we saw, there are like Facebook groups. We have the donor ID. You can search out a Facebook group for this donor ID to see any other like genetic members that he also produced.
SPEAKER_01Uh a thing that I thought was really cool is that because we paid a little extra, DC one day is like, you want to like see? He wrote a handwritten letter to future um recipients of his sperm. And I was like, Oh, sweet, okay, yeah. And it was a nice, long, like full sheet of paper. And it was just basically just like, I have such good memories with my family. I I would it would mean the world to me if I could help provide someone else with that that joy and that happiness. And we saw some of the other handwritten notes, and it was just like, have fun, guys, like have enjoy vacations. Feels good that if our daughter decides to seek out the donor, that like he's gonna be a cool guy. Like, I'd probably want to be friends with him. I'd probably reach out to him now if I could.
SPEAKER_07If you're out there, did you guys purchase those vials in bulk so that if you want to go through this process again, your daughter will have a biological sibling with both parents?
SPEAKER_01Um, we did not. We should have.
SPEAKER_04I mean No, they're expensive, and we took the risk that this guy is young and will keep on pumping out his sperm.
SPEAKER_05Cool verbs. That's great.
SPEAKER_07That's great. They only voted two families. Is that what you just said? I think it was two families.
SPEAKER_01It's two or three families. I hope not because that's not a lot. And this guy is fertile.
SPEAKER_07So how many how many rounds of IUI did you guys go through?
SPEAKER_04Only two, and I think we're pretty lucky for that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I was I was gonna start asking a little bit about the physical process for you, CC, like, you know, how many rounds, what was that process like for you? And just talk us through that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, after all the testing was done, and that took absolutely forever, we have to get insurance authorization for every round. Yeah, and so the first round was like great, we got authorization, went in, it didn't work. I don't think either of us were expecting it to work on the first try. And so it wasn't like this like wave of disappointment. It was like, oh, like we finally had like a real shot at getting pregnant because the other six months to a year or whatever, that's those were fake chances because we didn't know we had nothing to work with. Then like my cycle starts, but it hasn't been like the full 14 days, and the clinic doesn't give blood work until 14 days past the IUI. I had already had my period, and I'm like, Do you really need me to come in for blood work? Because I'll tell you I'm not gonna do that. And they're like, Nope, you still need to come in. And so to go get more blood. And so my fear of needles at this point is gone because I have gotten so much blood work done. And then, yeah, so then we have to like, we can't get authorization again from insurance until they verify that that cycle didn't work. So then we have to like go through the authorization process again, and then yeah, and then the next time it works, which was great.
SPEAKER_07Wrapping things up, kind of through your process and everything that you guys have gone through over the last couple of years. What are some things, or if any, Matt, that you want people to know about male infertility?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I feel really vocal about it. I tell I like I tell a lot of people about it. I think it's because I feel confident in myself. You know, there's also many jokes. Like I had your friend once, and I was like, Oh, we're going to a fertility doctor. She's like, Oh, I hope you're not shooting blanks. And in my head, I'm like, why would you say that? What if I am? And then it's a part of a lot of men's identity. And I think I now, especially now, feel like I don't I don't need that. Like I'm confident, it's fine, everything's good, it's all fine. But there's a definite long grieving process, and I think that has to be felt and experienced. And that's hard. It's hard for a lot of men, and it's hard for it would be hard for anyone. I just think for me, I'm very vocal about it. I like to talk about it, and I that helps me process it, sharing with people, especially you two, like for asking us to be here. I'm grateful to share this because it it just like makes me feel empowered to just own it and be like, you know what, whatever. I'm still I'm still mad. But I know that for other people, that's probably that that's just way harder, or like that hits harder. The the whole idea of not having your own biological child, your own blood in someone else, in another child. I respect that too. So I think process it the way that you need to process it and hopefully seek support the way you can. I think ignoring it and just being like, no, it's fine, or like, no, I'm not doing it, you know, and shutting anything down and having an absolute, it doesn't help growth, in my opinion. So I just hope you know, if anyone's struggling, you can process it with someone or find a way to make yourself at peace with it.
SPEAKER_04Dear, same question. I think that for our journey, it was nice to have such a black and white answer. This is exactly what your problem is.
SPEAKER_05Good point. Good point.
SPEAKER_04And how we overcame that might not be for everyone. Using a sperm donor, like Matt said, is not gonna be the answer for everyone. And we could have gone through more testing for Matt or like more of an invasive process for both of us. And we picked what we were both comfortable with, and like we were both in agreement that using a sperm donor was gonna be right for our family, and it's not for everyone, but it was helpful after we had like tried so long, which honestly wasn't even that long. We just got answers pretty quickly, and um, I'm grateful for that, and I'm grateful that Matt was so willing to use a donor so we weren't going through an even more invasive process.
SPEAKER_07That makes so much sense. Thank you guys so much for sharing the story and sharing the journey that you guys have been on. I'm so proud of both of you. I know.
SPEAKER_01And it's just such a we're glad to be here. I and also just like in the grand scheme of things, in the grand scheme of fertility, like I just want to say, like, you're right, it was black and white, kind of it was like Matt doesn't have sperm. Here's what you can do, here's a real easy thing you can do. For a lot of fertility, like there, it's there's not as much of a clear answer. And so I think we granted we still have it a lot of struggles and probably continue to have struggles if we want more kids. Like, we got a love relatively easy thing. It's like you can do this or you can do this. And we're like, okay, like we got a we got a resolution, you know, it could have been a lot more ambiguous for us.
SPEAKER_07So the next part of the episode is the lightning round.
SPEAKER_05Oh I'm familiar as a super fan.
SPEAKER_04I've heard the lightning round many times. Are you guys ready? I'm ready. Yes, I'm warm. I've been leading for this day ever since I first started listening.
SPEAKER_07Born ready. Born ready. So believe this is gonna work since there are two of you. Um, Mare and I are gonna fire off some questions. Um, with you both sitting on the couch, we would like you each to answer your own personal answer. Often these are themed towards what the episode is about. Tonight, these questions are personal to you guys. This is not necessarily about your fertility journey, but parenthood and who you are as people. Let our listeners get to know you guys a little more. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Ready.
SPEAKER_07All right. Favorite season summer.
SPEAKER_02Favorite book or video game of all time.
SPEAKER_01Team Fortress 2. Shout out to Alan, Megan's.
SPEAKER_04I'm gonna go with Tetris because I would have to read through all of the books I've read because I read so many that I can't remember them all.
SPEAKER_07Dude, Tetris is the best. Favorite NFL team.
SPEAKER_01Buffalo Bills.
SPEAKER_04Let's go, Buffalo, go to fitness activity, strength training, rock climbing, ideal date night, board games and popcorn. Yeah, yeah. I know. I was gonna say cuddling on the couch with a movie and popcorn, but I think board game is better.
SPEAKER_03Because they're so cute. Change diaper or wash bottles, change diaper.
SPEAKER_01Change diaper?
SPEAKER_04Although these days, it's just difficult.
SPEAKER_01She's going wild on that changing table.
SPEAKER_04Can I put a plug-in for cloth diapers while we're on the diaper topic?
SPEAKER_01Not throw the lightning around. Do it at the end. Do it at the end.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, favorite thing to do one-on-one with your daughter?
SPEAKER_01Play piano.
SPEAKER_07Everything. I don't know.
SPEAKER_04Matt and I were talking tonight about how much fun bath time is. So maybe that.
SPEAKER_03There you go. One thing you learned about yourself through your fertility journey.
SPEAKER_04Matt and I are an amazing partnership and communicate really well and lean on each other nicely.
SPEAKER_01Nice. I I learned I my my identity is not tied to like one thing that I think is a part of me.
SPEAKER_07Love it. What is one thing you learned about your partner through your fertility journey?
SPEAKER_04He's so strong and brave.
SPEAKER_01Um, that Sierra makes promises before actually having a child and then pretty much does stick to those promises.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like I'll wake up with her in the middle of the night. And you you did for a long time.
SPEAKER_03Wow. And what is one project that you are currently working on?
SPEAKER_04I am working on making a felt birthday crown for my daughter.
SPEAKER_01I am working on transcribing my favorite piano song to sheet music.
SPEAKER_07Ooh, that's awesome. You did it. Yay! We did the lightning round. Um, talk about cloth diapers. Did you guys do cloth diapers?
SPEAKER_01We are actively and we are diehards. Yeah, we feel strongly about it.
SPEAKER_03Okay, wait. I need to clarify this because someone, some some older generation person was trying to tell cloth diapers to me, and they were like, Yeah, but when we did them, there was a service that came around and picked them up every week and cleaned them for you. Do you have a service or are you cleaning cloth diapers?
SPEAKER_01We clean them. My mom, my mom used that service and did cloth diapers.
SPEAKER_04If there was a service, I would do it. There's a service. The service is our washing machine.
SPEAKER_01Like it's yeah, we have we we're like we're like in it now. We have like a bidet like um kitchen sink like sprayer that we hook up to the toilet down here, and we have like a diaper shield that you strap the diapers in. Like we're in it. Oh my god, the reason we're in it is because it's so much cheaper. It's so much cheaper.
SPEAKER_04We have like 40 or 30 cloth diapers, and all the diapers we have like first we bought some on Facebook Marketplace just to try them. So that that was like pretty inexpensive. And then my mom bought us a few for Mother's Day when she was on board with our cloth diapering. And then um, I got some for free on um buy nothing. And so we have like a huge stash, yeah. And there's like a long process to strip them all when you have like a new owner. Um, but yeah, like I would not go back.
SPEAKER_07Well, thank you again for joining us. Thanks for watching. So much.
SPEAKER_03It's so special to have guests on the show, especially guests with such wonderful stories that are willing to be vulnerable about something that's really hard that will resonate with people. Like, the more we can get people to tell stories like this, I just think it's so important to get that stuff out there. So thank you guys so, so, so, so much.
SPEAKER_04Thank you. Yeah, I hope some random people who are going through something similar find this and feel connected in some way. Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_06Awesome.
SPEAKER_02That was awesome.
SPEAKER_07Oh my gosh. I'm so glad that they were so willing to share their story, and I love Matt's sentiment of like wanting to de-stigmatize and like get that message out there about infertility and more specifically male infertility. I'm just very, very happy that he was excited to be here and share his journey. I have known Matt for a long time, and everything about his personality and Sarah's personality really shined through in that conversation that we just had with them. Yeah. And yeah, it was just, it's, it's very important to me that they get to share what they want to share and share their story. So that was so much fun to get to sit down and talk to them.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much to them.
SPEAKER_07And yeah, that was awesome. Should we wrap it up with the socials? Yeah, we are moms off script on TikTok and Instagram. Find us there. Um, and then if you want to email us your stories, questions, anything like that, momsoffscript at gmail.com. You can also click the send us a text in the show notes here. Ever you get your podcasts?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so we'd love to hear from you. Absolutely. Thank you all for listening, and we'll see you next time. See you next time. Bye.
SPEAKER_07Mom's Offs Group is created and developed by Meg Adeline and Mary Finch. Set design and videography, Meg Abiline and Meredith. Music, Matt Beauty. Photography, Michelle Montemeri. Graphic Design, Alexia Deloup. This episode is edited and produced by Meg Abiline.