Flying Through Midlife - Cheerleading, Motorbikes and Starting Again With Debbie Barry

Debbie didn’t find cheerleading at 16. She found it at 38. And it changed everything.

In this episode, Debbie Barry, law firm office manager by day, Masters cheer captain by night, shares how saying “I’ll give it a go” on a girls’ holiday led her to a sisterhood, a stage, and a version of herself she didn’t even know existed.

What started as one Wednesday night training session, turned into eight years of stunts, competitions, glittered uniforms, and the kind of friendship that feels like therapy in trainers.

But this conversation goes far beyond cheerleading.

In this episode you'll learn:

•  Why midlife isn’t a crisis, and what it really is
• How confidence is actually built 
• The unexpected power of female friendship formed later in life 
• What happens when you stop organising everyone else’s life and start asking what you want 
• How one brave “I’ll give it a go” can completely redirect your life

This is a story about trust, courage and taking centre stage in your own life. 

If you’ve ever felt like you lost yourself in supporting everyone else…
If there’s something you’ve quietly wanted to try…
If you’re ready to fly instead of stand on the sidelines…

This episode will show you why it’s not too late and may in fact be perfect timing.

Because sometimes midlife isn’t about starting over.

It’s about finally finding your wings to fly.

Find out more about Debbie @debbiebaz

Find out more about Cheer London Allstarz www.cheerlondonallstarz.com

Follow the podcast on Instagram:  @unshrinkablemidlfemoves

Find out more about Onika on Instagram: @lifeopenedup

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi Debbie, great to see you today. How are you? I'm good, thanks. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. I'm looking forward to this conversation where you're going to be sharing your journey about cheerleading with us, and I can't wait to hear all about it. But before we get started, tell us a bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

My name's Debbie or Debs. I'm 46. I'm an office manager for a law firm in London. No children, apart from I've got a foster cat at the moment and my other pets. And in my spare time, I'm part of a master's cheerleading team in South London.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Before we get into that, what's your movement journey been like before you got into cheerleading?

SPEAKER_00 0:35

I was a dancer when I was young, just disco dancing and rock and roll, probably from about eight till about 16. You know, you leave secondary school and then there's more important things, so I stopped the dancing, but I always loved it. And then I've always gone to the gym. I took a break actually once I got to about 35, but I've always been active in the gym, lots of cardio, some weights. And then I just gave up all of that. I went a bit off of sports. Just you know, you get into a relationship and you're more concerned with that. And then I went into cheerleading and I never turned back. So, how did you find cheerleading? Did it find you? So, my best friend, Danielle, she had twin daughters that were involved in cheerleading and they were in quite a big team. So the mothers were always waiting outside, and so they decided that instead of just waiting there in the waiting room, they were going to go into the hall and do some stuff. And then the CLA decided the Cheer London All-Stars, that is the team that I cheer for. They decided that they would make a master's team, which is for people over the age of 25. Yeah, that they put a team together, TM Tornadoes, which stands for Tough Mother's Tornadoes.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Love it. So, how long ago was that?

SPEAKER_00 1:49

I don't know when they first started. I joined probably a few years after they started. I went on holiday with Danielle. We went on a girls' holiday, we were in the pool, and she said, Hey, do you fancy trying out for cheerleading? We need some new members. And I said, All right, I'll give it a go. So I turned up one Wednesday night and I haven't missed a session really ever since. Not if I can help it anyway.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

I love the fact that you just said yes off the back of it. But you said you'd seen them perform previously?

SPEAKER_00 2:14

I'd seen the girls perform. I hadn't seen Danielle perform. I hadn't seen the Masters team perform, but I've always loved cheerleading. I love everything about it. So now that I'm involved in it, my enthusiasm for it, it's mega. How many of you are in the team? So it depends. We've had people come and go. The team is aged from 25 up to, well, I'm the oldest in the team now, I believe. So sometimes the younger members of the team they're leaving to have babies and stuff like that. So it'll be anywhere from eight up to about 15 of us.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Okay. And how many would perform at any time? Most of us. If you're in the team, then you're in the competition team. Okay. So 15 of you would come out on stage to do a performance.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

That's what we aim for. Unless someone gets injured or someone has to take some time out, but then we just try to nick someone from another team. One of the younger teams normally steps in, helps us to train, helps us to get to the competition. If you're injured, you'll probably still come to the session so you can see what's happening and you can keep involved and then hopefully still compete.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Brilliant. So what does it take to train for cheerleading? What's your training week look like?

SPEAKER_00 3:19

We are a grassroots team. So we only train once a week. It's not like some of the others. We're training for fun, really, and a little competition at the end of the year. So we have an hour and a half training session once a week. I'm in two teams now. So I train on a Wednesday night and I train on a Friday night as well. And what does training consist of? Yeah, so we'll do a warm-up and then we will practice some tumbles. So we have to make sure that we're stretching, we do some cartwheels, forward rolls, people that can do other stuff. And then we move into the actual training session. We'll normally focus at the beginning of the season, we'll focus on a certain area. So we might start with learning the dance or learning the jump section or learning stunt one. Because a cheer routine will consist of you come out, you do an opening stunt, then you'll normally go into some jumps, then you'll do a stunt one, more jumps, a pyramid, which is when you all get together. So you'll do the pyramid, which is normally two stunts together when you reach your maximum height, and then you'll go into a dance section. So we'll learn all of the individual pieces and then we'll put them together. And which role do you play? Are you at the bottom or you at the top? When I first started, I was a bass, which is one of the ones that sort of push the flyer up in the air. So you have two bases, a flyer and a back spot. But even though I was a bass and I was happy to be a bass, I always secretly wanted to be a flyer. And then one day our main flyer left and there was an opening. So they just asked if I wanted to do that. And again, I loved it. I love being the one up in the air.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

So you said you just train once or twice a week. There's no additional training, like gym training or running for strength or anything that you do to improve your performances.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

I still go to the gym. You don't have to, but I still go to the gym on a Monday and a Tuesday to do cardio. Wednesday, I'm at cheer. Thursday, I'll do a hit or a lift class, and then Friday I'm back at cheer. So I'm quite active. I love cheerleading so much. So I got an injury through cheerleading, but it wasn't anyone's fault. So I was practicing on my own. I was doing what's called an inversion. So it was going into a handstand, and then the bases would lift me up, and then I'd be on my back spot shoulders. So my arms were a little bit weak. I wanted to get stronger, so I was practicing handstands against the wall, and unfortunately, I just fell one day onto my head. So I had to have two discs replaced in my neck and three screws in my leg. Wow. But we had a competition coming up, and I just was so upset. I was saying to the surgeon, How long is it going to take me to recover? And he had all of the dates of the competition. I kept asking him, I kept sending him updates. I was like, Am I going to be ready for the comp? And two weeks after I had the operation, I did a competition at Brighton.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

I can't I can't believe that. When you hear that, that sounds amazing. That's major surgery, and then you still competed. But that's testament to your love of cheerleading and a dedication to the team.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Yeah, that's the thing. Absolutely love cheerleading. I love everything about it. I love the training, I love the way it makes me feel. I love going to competitions, the uniform, the atmosphere, the merch. I just love being around it, but also it's the team spirit because if someone's not there, it's a massive impact to the rest of the team. So you really want to pull through and do the best that you can for everyone else as well. I'm the captain of the team as well. So I feel an extra responsibility if I'm not there.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Yeah, that's understandable.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

So you were saying you've got the competition. So how often would you guys compete? So normally only once or twice per season, and then we do a showcase. Halfway through the year, you show people what you've been doing, and then the competition starts. So we've got a competition in six weeks' time. How long is the season? When does it start? When does it finish? It starts in September and it finishes around July. It's around the school season, and then we have the same holidays as the schools have as well.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Cheerleading, it's quite an exciting, dynamic, and unusual sport. Would you say that's reflective of your nature? Is that why maybe you were drawn to it or was there something else?

SPEAKER_00 7:22

I've always loved dancing. I always have I didn't know too much about cheerleading. I thought actually it was pom-poms, you know, especially around here, you've got the Crystal Palace cheerleaders, the uniform and the pom-poms. So I turned up on the first day and I was like, where do I buy my poms? And they were like, No, no, no, no. So you've got different types of cheerleading. So that is more pom dance. The cheerleading that we do involves stunts, throwing people up into the air, and it's got that structure that I talked about earlier with the opener and the jumps and the stunts. Um, I do love that about it. I love the uniform and all of that. I love the way that the whole thing makes me feel that the team are so lovely. I've been there for eight years, and the team have been together for eight years. There's been new joiners, but there's been a few of us that have been there for a solid amount of time. We're like sisters.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

That's testament to the group. And that's something that's been coming through as I've been speaking to a lot of amazing women about the community and the friendships that are formed as you start doing these different activities that actually you wouldn't trade for the world or you may not have had if you didn't do this.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

No, honestly, it's a sisterhood, and we do miss each other through the six weeks. So we normally try to arrange some sort of activity and we have nights out, we all went to butlings, we go to theme parks. I didn't have a lot of girlfriends apart from my best friend that I talked about earlier when I was growing up, but I've really learned the value of having women around you. We talk about absolutely everything. If someone's got a problem, no one's embarrassed to say about it, and no one's embarrassed to admit that they've been through it as well. So it's like a real open forum, and we always say Wednesday night isn't only cheerleading, it's like therapy for all of us.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

I think, as you say, with female friendships, especially friendships formed later on in life, it's different, isn't it? Because I myself have met amazing women over the last few years. Historically, I've had friends from universities, and just the act of forming new friendships can be a little bit not awkward, but different when you've had long-standing friendships. But I think that's something that's not talked about as much, forming friendships later on in life and how you navigate that.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

It's a really good and easy way to form friendships as well. I'm not sure about other sports, but definitely in cheerleading because you have to really trust each other because things can happen. Like I trust my stunt team implicitly that they never drop me. And I have to keep myself tight so I don't hurt them as well. So you've got that trust element already. So that builds a good friendship.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Yeah, and as you say, you're living the trustful every single time you train. Tell me about how you live differently in your midlife than you may have done previously.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

I I was thinking about this the other day, and I know people sometimes refer to or they used to refer to things as midlife crisis, but I don't think that anything is a midlife crisis. I just feel like at this age, I've got the confidence and the money and the time to do things that I wouldn't have had time or money or energy to do in my 20s. So I don't think it is a crisis, it's just that now I can do it. But yeah, I've always loved motorbikes and I was seeing this guy and he had a motorbike, and I really didn't want to be with him anymore. But I loved the bike so much, I stayed with him for about a year extra than I should have done. And then I forgot about it for a little while, and then during lockdown, obviously there was no public transport, and I really, really needed to get to work. And I just thought, you know what? I think I'll do my CBT licence, which is what you can get to ride a scooter. So I started riding a scooter to work, and then I decided to do my full licence because it just wasn't enough for me anymore. So about a year and a half ago, I went for my full licence and I passed it first time, which is it involves two tests, which is quite hardcore to be honest. I was the only girl on the course, and I went out and bought myself a Suzuki 600 sports bike, which is like the ones that you see on the motorbike racing on TV. Have you ridden it on a racetrack? No, not on a racetrack, but I do ride it to work pretty much every day. It takes me about an hour to get to work and about an hour to get home, so I'm putting on some decent mileage. Yeah. Would you ride it on a racetrack? I'm not sure. I have been on the motorway quite a few times, so I have been up to 70, but I I don't think I'd have the guts to do that right now, but that might be coming. Who knows what's next?

SPEAKER_01 11:41

I think it's lovely that, as you said, you've got things that you may have left for a little while and you're revisiting them. It keeps coming up that with the midlife crisis, now historically that's what it was. But now I think as we look at it, we're re-evaluating who we are, what we're doing. And as you've said so clearly, that now you've got the resources and you can do things that you wouldn't have been able to entertain before. So why not? And before it was seen as a negative thing that people were doing things drastically different. I think it's something to be celebrated.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Yeah, absolutely. No, I agree. And I don't really care what people think of me because I'm happy doing what I'm doing. Not that I get much negativity, to be honest. Whenever I tell people that I do cheerleading, they're super interested. I sit at the traffic lights, and lots of times people wind down their windows and they're like, Oh my god, you're so brave. So I get lots of positive responses to everything that I do, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Yeah, I can imagine because I've seen your bike and it's gorgeous. And I've never been on a bike because I think I would like it too much.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

Yeah, yeah. No, it's very addictive, especially in the weather that we had today. It's absolutely beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Yeah, and so I definitely admire them. But going back to what you said, and I think that was a really interesting point. You have more energy now than you did when you were younger. What do you think that's down to?

SPEAKER_00 12:59

Even though I've I haven't got children, I was married, and I think that I took what he needed more to be more important than what I needed. He was in sports himself. So I made sure that he had everything that he needed to live his life. I paid the bills, I did the cooking, I did the cleaning, I walked the dogs, I used to drop him where he needed to be. I wasn't forced to do that in any way. I enjoyed it, but I just kind of forgot who I was. I was married for 12 years and I went straight into another relationship after that and fell into the same pattern. I was like a mother without children. And then I had a period where I was single for five years and then I just kind of exploded into being me and everything that I love doing. I think sometimes you don't even know what you like until you're single and you can think about what you need in your life because you're too busy thinking about other people. Some of my friends have become single and they're so worried about what's going to happen. And I'm like, no, no, no, don't worry. This is gonna be the best time. This is when you're gonna find out who you are.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

That's really interesting because I'm married, so not single, but actually, that whole topic, that whole idea of understanding what you like and not knowing was where I was three, four years ago. And I've had the space to discover it because my kids are older, so I wasn't doing as much of the caregiving as previously. And I got to the point where it was quite scary not knowing what I liked, because as you said, I'd spent so much time making sure everybody, everything's working, everybody is where they need to be and fed that you're in autopilot constantly, and then when you stop, it was quite scary thinking I've got time, what do I do with it? And actually, maybe I keep busy because I don't know what to do with it.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

Yeah, yeah. Well, the cheerleading, the motorbikes, and I just started going on holiday on my own, and I absolutely loved it. I'm with someone now and it's great, you know, and we're going on lovely holidays, but the holidays that I had when I was single, I think there was a sense of pride. I felt really proud of myself because I went to some places that people were telling me not to go as well. They were a bit worried, and I was like, nope, it's gonna be fine. Where did you go? So my sister lived in Lanzarote, so that's how it all started, really. I used to fly over there on my own, and then she would be working all day, so I would just find things to do. So I was kind of on my own anyway. I'd just see her at night time and sleep in the apartments. So I thought to myself, I can definitely cope with this. So then I went to Turkey on my own, and I I had a hotel, but I didn't have any transfers or anything. I thought, no, I'm just gonna get off the plane, pretend like I'm at Gatwick. I went and found a taxi and I spent a week there on my own. That was lots of fun just finding things to do. Then I went to Santorini on my own because I'd always wanted to go there, and no one wanted to go with me, so I just thought, you know what, I'm gonna go. And that was an amazing holiday. And some of the nights I'd get dressed up, I took lovely clothes with me, and I would get dressed up and go to a restaurant on my own. And I'd sit there and I'd think, wow, I'm so lucky, and I'd just be looking at the lovely scenery, and the waiters are like, Oh, were you waiting for someone? I was like, No, it's just me. And I'd take a glance at the table across the way, and there'd be a couple sitting opposite me looking completely bored, and I'd be like, I'm having a better time than you. So that was nice. And then I was on YouTube probably, I think it was about two years ago, and I saw a video of Morocco and the hot air balloons taking off at sunrise, and I thought that looks good. So, footloose and fancy-free with a little bit of spare money. I booked it for the following Sunday to go to Morocco. Wow, and through the concierge at the hotel, I booked a dinner in the desert and the hot air balloon at sunrise, and it was just the most amazing thing. It was beautiful. Morocco was the one where people were saying, Oh gosh, you need to be really careful. But I found everyone just to be lovely. I think if you treat people how you want to be treated and you respect people, then they're gonna show you respect as well. So I definitely would say do the solo travel. That trip that I took to Lanzarote, talking about exercise. So my sister lives in a place called Arisifi, which is where the airport is. But my favourite beach was in a place called Porta del Carmen, and it's nine miles walk. But the walk is so amazing, you can walk all the way along the beach, but they've made a lovely path. So every morning I'd leave her place at half eight, and I would walk to Porta del Carmen. And I think right, if I leave at half eight, it's going to take me three hours, three hours twenty. I'll get there at lunchtime, got my favourite restaurant where I get my prawns from, a large orange juice, go and lay on the beach until about four o'clock, and then walk back. So for five days straight, I walked 18 miles each of the days, and I loved it. I just put my headphones in, I was listening to 80s music, Madonna, La Isla, Bonita, while I'm walking. It was just amazing. I love being around people, but I also really enjoy my own time as well.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Yeah, and that's the thing I think sometimes we have to get into it if we've not been used to doing it before.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And lots of people say to me, I don't know how you go on holiday on your own. Like I can't even go to McDonald's on my own. But I really do love doing things on my own because you don't have to wait for someone else. Even out of politeness, you say, Oh, where do you want to go to eat tonight? Oh, no, where do you want to go to eat tonight? No, when I'm on holiday on my own, I go where I want to eat with no questions about it. It's the same in everyday life. I'll go to the cinema on my own. I I love going to concerts on my own.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

Yeah, that's the thing, isn't it? Because I only went to the cinema on my own around lockdown. And again, it was revolutionary. I was just like, why have I never done this before? I think everybody, if especially if they're somewhat intimidated about doing that or what building up to solo travel, you start with these little things like the cinema dinner, because I know some people there's that embarrassment element of eating alone. Do these little things and then build up to it.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

It's funny because I can't even imagine why someone would feel embarrassed about sitting there. Again, I just put my headphones in, and when I went to Lanzarote, there's this Mexican restaurant, and the whole front is open, and you look out onto the beach and the sea, and I would just sit there with my own music on it in my favourite chimichangers and just think, oh my god, this is heaven. I don't need to be sitting across from someone else. But we're all different. I feel privileged actually. It's lucky that I am like that, and I don't know where that comes from. I'm not an only child, I've got a brother and a sister, so I've grown up around people, but I really, really do appreciate my own time.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Do you think maybe it perhaps something that's grown from the agency and empowerment that you may have got through movement and exercise over the years that enables you to say, actually, I can do these things?

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Do you know what it could be? It could be that I'm a lot more confident since being in the cheer team. When I first started, I was a bit more of a wallflower, and then I was like, no, I want to be the flyer, I want to be up the front, and now I like I'm in the middle for the dance, and yeah, I go the whole hog. I spent a lot of time in gyms when I was in my twenties with the ex-husband. So I got used to being around a whole room full of men doing weights, so that didn't bother me either. So yeah, maybe all of those different movement experiences have given me the confidence to do everything that I do today.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Yeah, and I think we underestimate what how it helps us until we do it, and then it's like, oh, it's no biggie. Going back to becoming a flyer, was it something that you saw other people in the group doing and you wanted to have a go? Or was it just something that you thought actually that might be tricky? What was the thinking behind it?

SPEAKER_00 20:36

I think everyone in the team is majorly important, right? But I just wanted to be the one that was spinning and being thrown around. It's kind of like being the lead singer.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

You wanted to have a go because it was more visible because you were feeling more confident over time. Yeah, over time, definitely. So you were getting better at the moves and feeling more competent and confident, or over time we're like, I'm on the stage, I'm doing okay, and now I'm gonna take it another step.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

When I first started, we were a level one team. So there's level one to level five. Level five is what you will see the American school age cheerleaders doing flips and twists and throws are incredible. So we were a level one team and we didn't have a uniform, we just used to train in cycling shorts and a t-shirt. And even when we did our first showcase, we were just in cycling shorts and a t-shirt. And the stumps were quite small, they were all braced. And then I said, and I think this might be why I was made captain. Apart from my enthusiasm, I was like, what do we think about getting a uniform? And so then we discussed it, and the girls were like, Yeah, let's do it, let's get a uniform. So we got together, we designed one, we wanted to keep things cost effective because a lot of the women have got children and other commitments. But then I said, Right, give me all your uniforms and I will hotfix gems onto them. So each uniform has 250 gems on it. And there were 12 uniforms at the time. So my eyes were properly crossed because I did 3,000 gems. I was doing one uniform in two days. I had this enthusiasm for it. The girls knew that I was just in love with cheerleading. Everything about it, we'd do the smallest thing, and we get a video sent at the end of every session. And I'd be in the gym on the exercise bike the next day, watching the video back like a hundred times and then sending it to the girls saying, I can't believe we did that, trying to do these sort of motivational speeches. I don't know. It just naturally came out of me. I think that cheerleading found me. I don't think that I found it. I think I was always meant to do it. Cheerleading isn't massive in England, not even now, but when I first joined, I didn't even know that cheerleading happened in England. But it's getting bigger, it's in so many schools now. The CLA who I cheer for, they're in so many schools in South London. They're teaching it, but it's in the PE curriculum. And there's not many things that make me think I wish that I was born this day and age. But the fact that I could have maybe gone further in cheerleading.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

I agree because that's how I feel about hierarchs. But everything in the right time.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Yeah, but I feel like the uniforms really added something to us as well because now we're going to competitions and we've got all the gear. We've got to have an idea what we're doing. And we did, we did really well. There's not many masters teams, which is a shame because there aren't many women doing cheerleading over the age of 25. So we haven't often got lots of people to compete against. We did end up getting so good at level one that we did move up to level two, which is unbraced stunts, and the routines are faster and harder, and there's more energy, and we're cleaner and crisper. That's what we aim for. We've got this competition in six weeks, and we're in a better place than we've ever been at this stage. Like I said earlier, people have commitments, some of the people have children, some people have got shift work. So unfortunately, sometimes a team member might not be there and it makes it hard for everyone else, but it's completely out of their hands. But this season, for some reason, all of the stars have aligned, everyone's been to every session. When you've got a competition, you start doing what's called full outs. You put the music on and you go as hard as you can doing as many of the stunts as you can, aiming to get through the whole routine as if you're on the competition floor. And we started doing full-outs two weeks ago, which is absolutely unheard of. Last season, we got to about two weeks out and we were doing our first full out.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Oh, that sounds like you guys are going to be more than ready.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

And so have you won a competition before or played? Yes, there's normally one, two, or three people. So we win by default, or we might win against one other team. But we have one, we've got seconds, I've got a trophy of lots of medals. I'm so into it, I'm overly into it. I've got all of my captain certificates on the wall, I've got my medals all framed. We're actually thinking about getting a new uniform next year, so I'm gonna put my old uniform in a frame. Like I've played professional basketball or something. So, how do you progress through the levels? You don't have to pass a certain test, you don't have to have the judge see it. It's just up to whether you think that you can do it. We would never go into level four, we probably wouldn't even go into level three. But if you're at training and all of a sudden your flyer is steady enough that she can be up there without having someone to hold on to, then you start thinking to yourself, okay, so we can do an extension without being braced. Can we do the other elements safely? And then you just enter as a level two team.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Well, thank you so much for sharing all of this. This is amazing. But before we finish up, can you tell me in a word or two what movement means to you?

SPEAKER_00 25:54

I think movement to me is just natural medicine, um, physically and mentally. On a Wednesday and a Friday night, I can have had the worst day. I've got the weight of the world on my shoulders, and then I see them, the therapy side of it, we make each other laugh, and immediately you feel lighter, and then you do something that you haven't done before, and you just feel happy and accomplished. So it builds confidence. It's just so good for you.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Well, thank you so much, Debbie, for your time today. It's been amazing, and I know that your story will be inspiring for our listeners.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

I hope so. Don't be scared to do things within reason, obviously, but if you've always wanted to do something, we're only here once. So just try it because you never know how much you're going to enjoy it and how much it can change your life.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Yes, fantastic advice. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Thank you.