Henk Geertsema: Communicating policy and building relationships

Henk is PR and Communications Manager for the Country Land and Business Association (CLA) North region, leading on media and member communications. In this episode, we chat about how effective communication shapes policy, why relationships sit at the centre of any type of influence, and the role in-person events still play in a modern marketing strategy.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome to the AgriWorks Podcast, the place to go for exploring how agriculture connects with communications, marketing, and the people telling the stories of our industry. I'm a living to be a good content agriworks and your host for this podcast. Each month we chat to a different person in the industry to find out how they approach campaigns, content, and marketing. In this episode, I have the joy of chatting to an old colleague, Hank Getzimmer. We chat through the importance of events and relationship building and how the CLA approaches marketing in terms of its membership and also lobbying. We also touch upon the challenges that AI poses within marketing, how we can utilise it, but where we need to be careful. Thank you for joining the podcast, Hank.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Great to be here.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

It's nice to your own catch-up.

unknown 0:42

It is.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

So I start with everybody looking at um your background and kind of how you've come into the world of sort of PR comms marketing. Um, so can you give us a whistle stop tour?

SPEAKER_04 0:56

Okay, that's uh nearly 40 years in the industry. So starting at school and then having an interest in journalism, and it just grew from there. So student newspaper, I was in the military in South Africa, I ran a paper there, um, came to the UK in 1997. Um, interested in land use. So I've worked at various government departments in South Africa as well as the agency in Johannesburg. Uh when I settled in the UK with my wife, who was recruited, or ex-wife, was recruited by the NHS. I started liking Carlisle and made a curve through the north via the Time Valley and ended up in Sedgefield, and my partner lives down in Craigall. So I've got a full bow of the north. Yeah. Um I started at CLA nearly 10 years ago, um, and it's been one of the most stimulating periods in my career because I take an interest in land use in its widest sense. Yes. It's not just about farming, albeit farming is quite an important aspect, especially now given the war in the Middle East.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 2:12

It's underlined or emphasized the importance of food production, not only within the UK, but globally.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

So your background has very much always been driven around the policy side and that aspect. What's different in the CLA versus that kind of very government policy on both sides?

SPEAKER_04 2:37

I think the CLA tries to capitalise on government making noises about wanting more evidence-based policy. So from our perspective, we represent our members and we are gathering evidence on a both a quantitative as well as a qualitative level, um, so that we can go to government with well-argued policy stances to say around 12 members supports position X or Y, and give them examples, case studies, um, quantitative data that they can then use and make decisions, which hopefully goes according to our members' wishes.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

Fingers crossed. Well, it has done recently, which is good. Your role, there's it it kind of covers so many different elements of that PR comms and marketing side that you've got external cons to members, cons to potential members, I guess, and then that sort of tertiary layer, which depending on the the way the cycle goes, is the government cons. And I'm sure sometimes that goes to the top, and there's a bit of a cycle. How do you approach those differently?

SPEAKER_04 3:55

It is a matrix level of communicating and promoting your stance, but also listening. Listening is probably the most important aspect of the role, whether it's an MP or whether it's a constituency meeting in a particular part of the country where we've got male authorities, so we need to bring them on board, engage with them. So we've got a meeting planned with um Luke Campbell from Whole East Yorkshire. He's a reform candidate, and we will have exploratory discussions with him in early June. We've got a very good relationship with David Scath, for instance. That's on a political level. So we focus very much on devolution and the new powers that it will bring and how that will impact the rural economy at large. Um, David Scath, the mayor of York, North Yorkshire, is particularly keen to brand himself as a rural trailblazer.

SPEAKER_03 4:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:58

And we are actively involved as a CLA along with other rural bodies to make sure that policies are rurally proofed. I know it's a jaded concept, but there is a high emphasis on making sure things are fit for purpose and that it's not too urban focused because the York, North Yorkshire area is about 70% rural and coastal. So that economy is vital, uh, vitally important, not only from a farming perspective, but also for food processors like McKenna's, who are based in East Yorkshire. So it's very important to engage on that level. Getting through to our members is a smogest board of farmer's channels that we use. So we use social media, and I'm finding there's a departure from X. I saw earlier this week there was a post from the Forestry Commission saying that they've decided they don't want to be on X anymore. And I must say there's quite a negative energy sapping China. So what I've what I'm finding a bit more traction with is LinkedIn. Yeah. Um, especially from a more managerial, switched-on farm perspective.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

It's an interesting one, LinkedIn. I think it's it's moving, it's morphing into something slightly different. I think there's definitely that accessing businesses in that kind of higher level managerial space. But I think over the last year there's been it's moving almost into a new Twitter, new Facebook.

SPEAKER_04 6:47

Yes, I'm saying this with trepidation, but I hate it to morph into silly AI-generated videos um and negativity, because that's one thing I can't stand. I don't mind a bit of show boating for from an organizational perspective. Yes. Um, and the information you get from there is quite invaluable, but I wouldn't want to see that diluted with ads and memes and all sorts of things that are totally irrelevant and detracts from the value that it has always provided up to this point. Yes. Um, we see on Facebook um there was an article in one of the mainstream media this morning or this week about adults tending to perish less on social media channels simply because there is so much other clutter. So that's the same for Facebook or Instagram, um, and we'll see where that goes in future. I think um Twitter will probably die a slow and painful death of negativity and drown in its own pile. Um because there is just so much energy that's coming.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

So I've never really, I've never had the joy and experience.

SPEAKER_04 8:08

I mean, from a journalist perspective, it's quite good to get the first uh the immediacy of the channel and the brevity has got its advantages, but the ground swallow of members don't necessarily have time to play around on social media. Um, the younger generation I find is more actively engaged with Instagram and Facebook. Um so I think it's a mix of channels. We obviously do lots of digital communications, e-newsletters, that sort of things. Um direct mail shots we do on a more limited scale. Uh we tend to use electronics, do texting, text messaging, uh WhatsApp as a channel. That was all you know that was coming in as I because our wonderful external direct external relations director, Jonathan Roberts, uses a WhatsApp political group. So whenever there's something breaking politically, we WhatsApp our members and they can interact. Um I think it's it's quite good to keep in touch with your members just to feed them with information but also listen to what they've got to say.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

I've been reading lots of different views on the idea of when we talk about marketing, we talk about creating a community. And there's been a lot of oh, community's gone, you need to stop using that word, and it's maybe abused. But I think generally in any comms that you use, it has to be more than just a broadcast. It has to be that kind of involving. Oh, it's got to especially in a membership organization.

SPEAKER_04 9:50

Any comms channel that doesn't simulate views and keep the door open to the listener, you become the listener too. It's not just communicating to, it's listening to. So it's definitely a two-way street. That's one of the first key principles that I could tell anyone who's interested in branching out into Pons or marketing, is it's a two-way street. If you don't listen to your customer, your farmer, your member, then you're doomed.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

Yes. Do you find sometimes it goes too far the other way, though? That you then get so many messages, so many different directions that you should go in that it's hard to see the wood for the trees.

SPEAKER_04 10:39

I don't think we've been overwhelmed to that extent, but it can it can be taxing on time to analyze and hopefully AI can be deployed. There's lots of scope for AI to be rolled out in managing data. Um, you know, the DASIC example of word clouds, they've been about for 10, 15, if not longer, years. Where if you do a solo monkey uh you can see word clouds in real time uh develop. So AI is just that on speed. So you will be able to analyse in depth in at granular level the ins and outs of what people are telling you, and you can then set your content policy accordingly.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

No, I totally agree. And I think we were sort of chatting just before about AIs and the fact that it's here, it's coming, and it's gonna get bigger, and you can't avoid it. But it sometimes is a bit uncomfortable in terms of how it's going to end up playing that final role within everything you do from on farm to marketing. Um at the moment I utilize it from a time-saving perspective and organizing notes and that kind of thing. I think he's got a bigger part to play. But how far that goes, I don't know. What are you what are you thought?

SPEAKER_04 12:10

I think um AI is great, it should be celebrated. Um I think there's lots of scope for it to develop, but it's still in an early evolutionary stage. Yeah. And it is again, it is a web search but on absolute speed. And it feeds off data, which I'm very interested in data and the analysis of the data. Um, there are lots of clever prompts you can use to compare two data sets. But what AI doesn't do is it doesn't necessarily interrogate the methodologies used to arrive at the data in those data sets.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

No, I think that's why you've got to be very clever about how you're setting it up. Because I think it has the capability, but you've got to take everything with a pinch of salt.

SPEAKER_04 13:09

Oh, definitely. Um I recently did a prompt and I wanted to know the summertime and wintertime wind directions.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 13:21

And I wanted it visually mapped, and it showed the wrong direction for southwesterly wind, which all of a sudden came from Europe, which wasn't correct. Um so it's simple things where you need human knowledge to interpret what's in front of you. And to question, and to absolutely think critically about what you're looking at.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Yeah, I've been reading a few bits on how you've starting with social media by coming into AI that we are slowly losing the ability to think critically, and I think that's especially if you're in a role like comms and sharing of information. We need to cling on to that skill.

SPEAKER_04 14:06

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I can't see AI starting to cut hedges now, but in 20 years' time there will be an application which is based on AI, which will do your drilling uh specifically target, you know, in a drone, target your different weedy patches.

SPEAKER_03 14:30

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 14:31

Apply fertilizer. Um, so it in 20 years' time we wouldn't be able to recognize the world around us for technology coming to bear. Um, I think it will be a slow process. Yeah, it is quite quick, but there will be lots of pitfalls and lessons will be learned, and it would be an iterative process, technologically speaking. So things would get cleverer as we go ahead. It can be quite a scary prospect at some stage, um, because uh to what extent will humans still be able to influence decisions, and to what extent will it be driven by ARA?

SPEAKER_02 15:16

Yeah. Well, that's a bit of a It's a bit of a narcissist. A lot, but yeah, I guess it's just we'll have to, it's a bit of a wait-and-see.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

And however, if I can add something which I'm quite passionate about to underline about AI, you've got AI and the associated technology on the one hand, but I think from a farmer perspective, it will open new avenues and put a premium on authentic human relationships.

SPEAKER_03 15:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:50

So I see collaboration between farmers as where it's at in future, alongside the technological side. I think people will gag all human face-to-face interaction.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

I think we're already seeing that sort of switching. I think we had through lockdowns, there was so much of that removed. And then I think social media has removed a lot of it, and we're seeing sort of, especially with next generation, that kind of not pushing away social media plays a part, but having those actually detox from technology, um, lots of these off-grid experiences coming through. And I think there will hopefully be that savviness of utilizing it where it should be, but then using your own instincts, your own personality.

SPEAKER_04 16:45

Definitely. So I think you've got technology, but people still like to interact face-to-face, have a chat about what's happening in their field. Yes. Um, I think a lot of the government funding, funnily enough, is end at collaboration and technology innovation. Um the farming cluster concept is coming back in vogue, and I think it all alludes or hints at that strong drive to collaboration. Yeah. I think there'll be more events and people seeking out face-to-face interactions, networking, sharing ideas, no matter how different it is. Um, if you look at Groundswell, that has been such a successful movement for regenerative agriculture. Um, it came out of nowhere almost, and is now very much in vogue. And for a lot of people, that is the future.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Definitely. And I think that kind of collaborative content style event is really where we're seeing things going. I know it's Lama and the start of this year, which is predominantly a trade show and very sort of you wander around and you see things and you chat to people. But we had stages with content and panel discussions and talks, and it was received so well. And I think combining those elements together is key because I think what you can't get virtually through a webinar is that same discussion level that you can get in person.

SPEAKER_04 18:30

Absolutely, and it's also the human interaction. Yeah, the basic emotional cues that we give when we communicate face to face is key to understanding where you're actually coming from. It's not a blank email, black, black on white. Um, it has got a bit more meaning to it.

SPEAKER_03 18:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:53

Communication is a multifaceted interaction between people. Um, it's not between screens and it shouldn't be.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

No, totally. They have their place. And for things, especially in this industry, when something happens quite quickly, to be able to get together a panel that's on Zoom or whatever platform you use is is fantastic. But I think we are shifting back into uh attending something. Um CIO always done from my knowledge of them, it's always been very in-person events and the road shows that you do around succession, um, and there was energy ones and this style of things. Is that increasing, do you think?

SPEAKER_04 19:37

Definitely. And I feel there's quite a ground swell of people wanting to come to events, wanting to see colleagues on a both a social human level as well as an information exchange level. Yes. Um, so I think there's there's great scope in the future for events. In fact, I see a thriving events industry coming up in the future, and that's the one industry that shouldn't be just feel threatened by AI. In fact, it should be emboldened by it.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Definitely. No, I completely agree. I think for me in events, it's that balance between very much on a farmer level is not creating so many that farmers are taking days out of the running of their business to then attend an event. And I know you do quite a lot of talks when you're at the Yorkshire show, and it's maybe tagging on to things that are already in calendars for your members. Do you find that that works quite well?

SPEAKER_04 20:35

It works quite well. Uh, we're also trying to engage in this episode.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

I had the joy of chatting to an old colleague, Hank Getzimer. We chat through the importance of events and relationship building and how the CLA approaches marketing in terms of its membership and also lobbying. We also touch upon the challenges that AI poses within marketing, how we can utilise it, but where we need to be careful. That's all for this episode of the AgriWorks Podcast. A massive thank you to Hank for joining me for what was a really interesting catch-up, to be honest. To keep up with all things AgriWorks, you can follow us on social media at AgriHyphenworks on LinkedIn or at AgriConnect underscore agriworks on Facebook and Instagram. You can visit our website or you can subscribe to this podcast on your favourite channel so that you never miss an episode. Thanks again for listening. I'm Olivia and this has been the AgriWorks Podcast.

SPEAKER_04 21:34

Listen to members who have sometimes disagreeable to our own stances on certain policies, but you have to assimilate and listen to everyone and find the majority view and move on from there. Um so it's sometimes difficult to reconcile those differences.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

How do you balance that messaging? So you've you've taken all this, you've you've sort of know that there's committees and you've taken information from the committees across across the full region and you go with the majority. How do you then get that messaging across to those that might feel like they've lost out?

SPEAKER_04 22:16

The structure of the CLA, decision-making, setting policies, uh submitting responses to consultations are very democratic. And it's thoroughly undertaken to take on board all different um aspects on a bit or views on a particular policy. It's then discussed discussed at national level with um members nominated from different areas throughout the country. So there's a national view developed, and that view is used to inform submissions that we make to government on their consultations. So um it's always evidence-based, and which is why debate is such an important thing. People shouldn't shy away from debate. Um, and events, to be honest, isn't just about an event. They aren't just for Christmas. So it's about listening afterwards as well, communicating afterwards, sharing information afterwards. Yes. There's a real hunger to have it as a what do you call them of Easter egg shell. Um, so you've got lots of different layers to it. Beforehand, you create excitement, you say these interesting speakers are coming, you have the actual event, you enjoy a nice meal, you have a good natter. Yeah. And then afterwards, it's about sharing and making those relationships that you've built, albeit briefly at the event, use that as an icebreaker for a longer-term relationship and information sharing. So that there's quite a lot of aspects to an event. It isn't just come have your pee and pie supper and then go and never see you again. There needs to be a greater understanding with events managers, commons marketing people of the holistic nature of the vents.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

Yeah, and I get and the joy of events, from my perspective, it's a bit like I always say in terms of video content, anything that's a discussion and is in person can become so many other things. So that discussion, let's say, panel discussion at Yorkshire Shell, I'm imagining a lot of that will turn into after-the-fact content, whether it's masculine magazine or just sharing little bits that have come from our socials.

SPEAKER_04 24:48

Absolutely. Whenever I take pictures of, say, politicians or influencers within the farming land use community, I make sure that they're tagged in.

SPEAKER_03 24:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 25:00

And that I've emailed them a picture for their own personal use. So it isn't just about putting out a press release or shite to be murdered on social media, it's also thanking people afterwards, making sure that you establish a good relationship women because they might need you in future or vice versa.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

We sort of covered slightly the social media and different channels. How do you change your messaging across the channels? Because as you sort of touched upon, you've got a very you've got quite a wide audience, which there is generally in agriculture from sort of those that are still running the business, the farm, who might be in their 60s, 70s, 80s down to next generation. Have you noticed a clear separation between who accesses which platform? And how do you adapt what you you put out there?

SPEAKER_04 25:54

I think the older generation, this maybe sounds ageist, is a bit slower at adopting newer technologies. I'm speaking from direct experience with my parents. My mother, funnily enough, is more receptive.

SPEAKER_03 26:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 26:13

Whereas my dad thinks the hardy taps on screen are more responsible. So I think there's that aspect of age, but there's also the rurality sometimes means that people simply don't have or haven't had for very long the connectivity to enable mobile phones or smartphones. Um so that is an issue for the rural sector because it also limits your use of AI and your exposure to it. So someone closer to a city uh will have greater access to that technology and make use of it and be far more clued up than someone in the back end of Northumberland where there might not even be a signal. Um so I think we still have a good uh significant proportion of members who don't have mobile phone numbers who use land lights. And the only way to communicate is via print in our monthly magazine, which is a brilliant magazine, um and digital communications via email. Yeah. Um, it is also about spreading the message and having scintillating messages that are so scintillating that you go share it with your neighboring farmer friend.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

You trinking conversations, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:46

Absolutely. So word of mouth is becoming more important, and like we mentioned earlier about face-to-face communications, authenticity and less fakery is definitely on the cards. I hate the term networking, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

No, so do I, and it's really hard to find a different word for it.

SPEAKER_04 28:06

Well, it's face-to-face interaction. That sounds a bit textbook, but that is exactly. Fantastic. I I'm glad you read the newsletters. Um, because I do an analysis of the different types of content and very if you haven't grabbed someone's attention in the first three lines, they're not going to bother. And that bears out in statistics, the metrics once you start analyzing which data did people click on. So everything's kicked all, measurable, and you can see Middle East Wall um whales shortages in the countryside is up there at the moment. Next week it might be food security. So you can tune in your social media strategy according to which has the most traction. Um money, where it's going to hit your pocket, where you can save money, where there's new funding grants, etc., uh new policies or approaches like the loud use framework, SFI, people gank for that information because it has an impact on the bottom line at the end of the day. Um, so anything where it will hit you or benefit you, those are the most important bits of news. Um the land use framework, for instance, it doesn't have a lot of immediate impacts, but it might have in the longer term.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

I know you do a lot, and this sort of is more within the magazine and more on the website, but there's quite a few sort of blog style pieces that are on case studies where you've been out to farms. I imagine they get quite a bit of traction. From my experience, it's the industry like that.

SPEAKER_04 30:14

Absolutely. Um, we also try to give a second shoe of that content by fleshing it out to traditional print media, which we've got brilliant relationships with. Um, and I think speed, immediacy that is so much part of a journalist marketing PR person's job role is responsiveness. And if you can make life easy for someone else, they will give you credit um by giving you coverage.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

So you cover the North region?

SPEAKER_04 30:52

Yeah, it includes the Northeast, the whole of Yorkshire, Lancashire, and Cumbria.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

Yes. I mean it's a huge, huge region. And then there are how many regions are there within the CLA? How many hoops are there?

SPEAKER_04 31:06

And that includes Wales, which is a home nation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

So you each are responsible for the communications and PR within your region. How does that work on a collaborative within CLA nature? But you've obviously you all have to work together on certain messaging and things, but also adapting depending on the region that you're in, because certain messaging, just like with age ranges, is going to be different depending on where you are.

SPEAKER_04 31:38

Absolutely. Um, I'll use an example of the East region, which covers Lincolnshire and Norfolk all the way down. Um, because the landscape is different, their communications wouldn't really focus on upland or hill farming. Whereas for us it's quite a big deal. Yeah. And for Wales it would be two. So different regions would focus more on certain aspects um than others, so that the East Region would hardly um shout about or make a big deal in their headlines about hill farming. But in Cumbria, Northumberland, uh, Wales, Yorkshire, that is more of an issue. So I think um depending on the landscape, that will almost determine what you cover. But we do take national issues. We have got a few lines on that, and we can put regional slants on it. Um with SFI, we can look at smaller farms for the first tranche and maybe have them quoted. Um, same with whenever we analyze flightsipping stats. They might have industrial flightsipping in the south. We don't have that as much in the north, but it doesn't happen usually in the periphery of big cities like Manchester or Newcastle. But we all meet on a bi-weekly basis and we exchange ideas and what can be done better. So it's always about continuously improving what you do, but putting a regional slant on it. And so there's lots of creativity you can do with a generic three-liner that is agreed nationally, um, to make it more relatable on a regional level.

SPEAKER_03 33:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:32

Um, we share best practice between ourselves because sometimes we do do things differently, um, which can be annoying at times, but you try to get a consistent message, even though you communicate it slightly differently. Um, I think that works really well, and we even do that for digital comms as well as your traditional public relations, uh, how you put together press releases, who you send it to. Um, and time again is of the essence. The quicker you do something before anyone else, the more likely your content will be used. Um as I'm getting older and getting a bit more controversial in terms of the I think you need to say if you feel strongly about something, say it strongly in the strongest terms. Yeah. Don't pussyfoot around issues or scurce about you know avoiding issues. Address it head-on. And if you need to be assertive in your comms, do it.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

I guess the one element that we hadn't touched on is sort of there's been a shift in terms of people buying into businesses and more into the people. So that's part of your role, especially within CLA, whether or advisors, you've bought expose in London, sort of do them on policy side, um, regional directors. There is a lot of building profiles within the organization, which I guess a lot falls on you to some extent, sharing, I guess, particular um guidance pieces that somebody's written and getting messages across from a particular person. How do you balance that?

SPEAKER_04 35:25

Again, it's almost like adopting a matrix of what is important, um, the classic media things is if it impacts on one person who cares, if it impacts on the whole farming industry or the whole forestry sector, then it is newsworthy. If it impacts on society, which food does, then anything, any blog that is written by any employee, regardless of their uh seniority, will get more mileage. The wider, far wider the impact on, say, from the CLO's perspective, our membership, what would appeal to our members, what will impact them, and then the public. Yeah. So the wider the impact, the more newsworthy. It's the same with you'll see the Middle East war leaking every year. You might have the odd rocket yology between, and that becomes you know, to the moon. It's because there's a global interest in these things. And then further down the pecking order of content, you will find things that are less impactful. So there might be a drought in a country in Africa that no one sees or hears about. So a lot of that lower impact, it might have a big country-specific impact, yeah, but is not fed through to the national news or international news agenda. And the same is if you shrink it down to the UK, to England, to your specific region, there will be differences in impact.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

I guess utilising profiles from that perspective, and you touch some sort of um social media and influences, which is one aspect of profiles, but you've got members who hold particular positions within the organization, who I guess are your spokespeople, whether that is on social media or by LinkedIn, sharing what's going on, or just being out and about. That's far more on a regional level. But I guess that supports that continual message.

SPEAKER_04 37:44

Yes. What I mentioned earlier about the CLA is quite a democratic organization in terms of decision making, plotting a course, and not everyone will be agreeable to a particular course, but it's giving choice, listing all the pros and cons in our advisory notes, the advice that we give to members. So we can't be prescriptive in saying you must do this, or unless it gets you know complying with new regulations. Um which is one of my tiny bug bays in that government issues a lot of new regulations, but not necessarily the funding to make good on those regulations. Won't go into detail.

SPEAKER_02 38:31

You might get in trouble if you start been down that route too yet. Right. I'm gonna do a quick fire round.

SPEAKER_04 38:40

Rock on.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

Okay. What would you say is the most underrated e commerce channel?

SPEAKER_04 38:49

That is quite a hard one.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

I didn't say they wouldn't be easy.

SPEAKER_04 38:53

But I would say events, yeah. Uh followed by um just two people meeting in a room or in a field or on a hillside to discuss things. Yeah. Um event-wise, also in relation to farming customers, a lot of them still exist years after um Natural England championed them.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:25

But they still exist informally. They don't need funding or bureaucracy.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

They just need a WhatsApp group.

SPEAKER_04 39:31

Yes. Well, a WhatsApp group, digital communications can kickstart, can promote. So they are the the drillers of seeds, and it's from that that you can have that face-to-face interaction.

SPEAKER_03 39:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 39:48

It's also the most costly in terms of getting in your car and driving 50 miles to meet someone else in your sub-region or your county. Um so that needs to be borne in mind. It is costly, but it's a platinum.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

Yeah, pretty much. Something from a marketing perspective within the ag industry that people get wrong, a book bear of yours that you see.

SPEAKER_04 40:16

Probably shouting too much and about something which might be totally irrelevant.

SPEAKER_03 40:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 40:26

Um, being egotistically self-obsessed. Um I think there's a lot of influencers out there. A lot of them are doing super jobs, um, but sometimes their egos become bigger than the issue, and that's where I've got a major gripe. Like that's kind of uh because you're not better than anyone else, and we see that with outside of the file use, sexy, you have celebrities particularly falling into that trap. Yes, where you've got lots of celebrities, Hollywood style, running out there, wanting to say the world, wanting politicians to do X, Y, and Z. But it doesn't work that way. You've ever stepped them the line and the competence and the knowledge of what you're commenting on. So maybe rather keep stumm than put your foot in it.

SPEAKER_02 41:24

Yes. Yeah. Something that you've worked on that you've loved at the CLA. Someone singing around.

SPEAKER_04 41:31

Lots of things. I love every day because every day brings tears, frustration, anger, humor. It's all the emotions rolled into one. But you need action and understanding if you really want to get to grips with people. I love organizing or helping organizing events and then promoting them and attaining them and chatting to everyone there. I'm very much uh a tangible person. I love speaking to people face to face. Um, the Northern Farming Conference, I've been on the organizing committee for well, close to 10 years. Love doing that, love liaising with speakers beforehand, playing with the content, the topic, the theme, the title. Um, it leads to endless debates. Um, but doesn't really cut the code of me. So I prefer short, brief. Yeah. Um, every year brings its own diversity in topics. Um, it never ends. I mean, every year is a gift to be able to set out the conference and to have people, regulars, as well as newbies, come along and take part. So it's like a family reunion once a year in November.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

So it's a very bitter one. What does great marketing look like to you?

SPEAKER_04 42:59

Great marketing is ever-evolving. It is looking at the metrics, making sure you amend your own strategy, your own tactics to reach your audience. Not only reaching them, but also enabling listening to take place. Those are the bases, and you must accept that the tech, social media, digital comms, brand media, direct mailing, face-to-face bombs, it will always change. It is always on shifting sides. You cannot try and build something solid and permanent because it won't blast all tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

That's it. Thank you for joining.

SPEAKER_01 43:45

That was such a good conversation. That's all for this episode of the Agri Works podcast. A massive thank you to Hank for joining me for what was a really interesting catch up, to be honest. To keep up with all things AgriWorks, you can follow us on social media at AgriHyF. Works on LinkedIn or at AgriConnect underscore agriworks on Facebook and Instagram. You can visit our website or you can subscribe to this podcast on your favourite channel so that you never miss an episode. Thanks again for listening. I'm Olivia and this has been the AgriWorks Podcast.