Creators: Strategy or Stigma?

Are creators and influencers actually worth it for agricultural brands, or is it all stigma and no strategy? Olivia Skeoch and Steph Rogers break down the difference between a creator partnership that works and one that's just chasing follower counts. They cover employee-generated content, user-generated content, and how to vet a creator's audience before you partner with them.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome to the AgriWorks Podcast. I am your host, Olivia Skiok, Head of Commercial Content at AgriWorks, and I am joined again.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Yay! Hi, I'm Steph. I run the Social Farmhouse and we look after marketing for agricultural businesses.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

And you are co-host, which is fantastic.

unknown 0:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

So today's session is all about creators and their role within marketing strategies. So the question is, are we starting with a therapy session or a strategy session?

SPEAKER_00 0:28

I'm gonna start with a little strategy session if that's okay. So outside of the industry. Yep. But Farron Clark, a creator who's just kind of blown up in the last probably six months, she posted a video in a maybe blazer, so Molly May's brand. Glad you're filling in this conversation earlier. I realised how millennial I was. Anyone who's not into all this, just don't switch off yet. There's a point. So she she did a video in a big wide-shouldered blazer, powdered blazer. The power suit. And um got a lot of stick in the comments from people saying they didn't like it and that she looked silly. And she was fighting for a life in the comments, really fighting for how much she loved this blazer, how good it looks, how she just loved that vibe and the maybe brand. Very quickly, maybe within about a day or two, I wouldn't say it was less than 20 uh 48 hours, had sent her a package with more maybe stuff, more shoulder padded tops, and a cookie that said the the shoulder pad girls get it. And that I thought was very strategic, very quick thinking, and just great marketing from both Farron and from Maybe, and I think it sets them up for like more collaboration. And yeah, I just thought it was very quick thinking from the Maybe team, but also Farron's done a very good job. Everyone's talking about that blazer.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

It just shows that with A with socials in general, you can be strategic and jump on a trend or something that's just happening at the same time. It's not one or the other.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

And also, I think some of the best partnerships and the best creator business partnerships come out of that organic, natural relationship.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Definitely, if it makes sense then, doesn't it, rather than it seeming disjointed and out of nowhere. Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

And I think we'll sort of touch on that a little bit more later in the episode. I'm gonna come in with a halfway house between strategy and therapy, because I haven't quite worked out in my head where it sits. On the way here, um, I started listening to an the I Love Power to Fail podcast. Yeah. And the most recent episode has been with Andy Burnham. You rarely, in general, get politicians on these kind of podcasts, let alone somebody who is Prime Minister. And it was really interesting, and in my head, I haven't listened to the whole thing, but in terms of that creator side of things, A, it opens the question that actually you don't have to partner with a creator or somebody with a big influence just on socials. It can happen across different channels. Um, so if you're not a business that's big on socials, there's other ways of doing it. But what he and his team are doing are capitalizing massively on Elizabeth's day Elizabeth Day's following, and probably most of whom are in that camp that he's trying to get in touch with. Branding-wise, it fits totally in with his messaging of I'm one of you. Yeah, I fail, I do, I'm sort of, yeah, I'm not up on my pedestal. Yeah. But at the same time, I think strategically, yes, there's elements where it works, but a bit of me just wants to go, oh, I don't know whether it feels quite right.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

I think a lot of Andy Burnham's marketing in general feels a little bit try-hard at times, doesn't it? And I think that's the issue. And I think like it it makes sense for his brand and what he's trying to do to go on that podcast rather than die of a CEO. Yes. I think that would have felt very different.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

That would have felt that wouldn't have, it wouldn't have worked, and it would have been more opportunistic in terms of actually down that great following, let's just do it. Yeah. Not does this fit in. So I think they've got that right. I think it's more, and I think we'll talk about this a bit further in the podcast, but it's more that is there a bit of grating in terms of the position you're in and what you're then trying to achieve. Yeah. Um, and we've seen it with other departments quite often in government, actually, recently, where it's not working and it falls flat, and you just think, are you diminishing the power that you have or the authority you have by trying to lean too much into this? So I guess for me that was a bit of a strategically, can totally see what they're doing, makes sense on the surface if you start digging deeper. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

But then maybe that's just it raises a lot of questions, doesn't it? But I think I can see what he's trying to achieve, but like you said, I think class it as a failure.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

No, absolutely not. Um but the jury's out a little bit for me on that. So yeah, that was good to get it off my chest. Anyway, let's sort of get going in terms of what we've been talking about. I think creators, it's a really interesting topic, and you see different industries do it differently, and there's maybe a bit of can't think of the word, I think sometimes it's not done right, and I think there's a lot of negativity towards it sometimes. Yes, there's definitely a stigma around influencers. Yes, whether it's down to the fact that it can be overdone and in certain industries I think it is overdone, and I think we're almost coming from slightly behind watching the beauty industry, the fashion industry, where it was such a big thing come out of the other side of it. Yeah, yeah, kind of catching up with that. A weird place to be, almost looking going, we're a couple of years behind in ag. Um I guess like where do we start with that stigma question? Sort of the overdone that we used.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

Do you feel they're overdone? What's your opinion?

SPEAKER_01 6:23

I think in other industries, yes, I don't think in agriculture they are, and I think there is a very different set of circumstances in this industry that you don't have elsewhere that anybody that has become a successful creator is working in the industry and creating content in the industry that is also part of their social life, part of their community, which presents itself with the much more need for authenticity and trust.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

I also think in this industry you don't have like the career influencer, like in other industries, like there's like the comfort influencers, beauty influencers, that's their whole job. Whereas no one is coming into influencing and farming to be an influencer.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Nobody's going nobody's buying a farm just to be an influencer.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

No, so it's an add-on yeah. It's an expensive way to do it, I imagine. Yeah, so I think that's the difference, is no one's doing it as a full-time job, it's an add-on to what they're doing.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Yes, it's a diversification, you might say. Yeah. Um I also think a lot of creators slash influencers in this industry have come about organically. Uh it's sort of a similar concept that they've not set out necessarily to be that they've just started sharing what they do, and that's naturally happened. Which, when you look back two or three years in the beauty industry, that was what was naturally happening, and now you've got a lot of people going, that's what I want to do.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Yeah, they see it as a career rather than yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

What I guess the question then is, is there an element where those partnerships are badly used by businesses?

SPEAKER_00 7:58

I think yes, you have to be strategic about it in terms of just because someone has a big following or they've blown it up online, it doesn't necessarily mean we should work with them right now. Yeah. I think that's the mistake that a lot of brands make. Um, it needs to align with your brand. I think that's when it can often go wrong, is when it doesn't align.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Definitely. I think there's a danger of losing your audience because you've clearly just gone, we want so-and-so's following. Yeah. Okay, flip side, what makes it work well?

SPEAKER_00 8:34

When the brands really align, uh, the opposite of what I was just said, basically, when it really makes sense for those two, the brand and that creator to work together, if they've that creator perhaps was using the product before organically. Goes back to your Farron Clark point.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

That's working so well because uh the cynic in me wants to kind of go, was it planned?

SPEAKER_00 8:54

That's the thing with some of these, that you don't know whether it it was planned, you know, weeks and months before and they knew exactly what they were doing.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

But if you if you're at the level where you don't know it's been done well if it hasn't done it. Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

If you like we have a marketing brain. Yeah, that's true. I'm looking at it. And the particular brain. Not not the everyday consumer probably doesn't see it that way.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Um because you know, mark like the marketing teams like maybe and like Farron, who's an expert in what she does, they're two steps ahead. Yes, yeah. So people, you know, that might become a thing in future.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Well it goes back to the whole, and I know there's a load of stuff around it now that they're not the brand that you want to be associated with, but in when there was the whole brewdog Aldi's version, okay, yeah, there's lots of question marks around that. Was it actually was the plan in place? It still worked really well. It gets people. It felt organic. Yeah. Uh it gets people talking, and it was for both of those brands a natural sort of a little bit of a competition sparring about it, and then coming to a what makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Um I guess then advice to businesses is a word that we keep using, is be really strategic. Look into look like spend some time on socials looking at who's tagging you in posts, who is using your product all the time and consistently. Yeah. And actually pay more attention to that than the following that they've got.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

And also who their audience is as well. Yes. That's that's a huge part of it. Are their audience your target customer? Yeah. That's something that I would also pay attention to.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

And I think we were when we were chatting and planning this episode, we were trying to think of brands that do this well. There's loads outside the industry, but then you look at in the industry. And we were struggling a little bit. Yeah. Clot I would say more the clothing and kit brands have got on it quite quickly. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Because I think that's an easier thing to do, isn't it, to send to send a product that's worth maybe a hundred odd pounds. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, £100 that that's a lot easier to gift someone and see how that goes. And I think that's how it's started in the industry. But we are seeing longer-term partnerships with you know machinery brands and um like pieces of kit like um like Prattly and things like that, and wrapper. Um, we are seeing more of that. But yeah, I think we did struggle to actually think of brands doing it, really winning with it.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

And also ones where there's been quite a strong history with the brand. Um, where you can go back a year or so, two years, and go, actually, that's been naturally happening um in the background. I think Ariad are doing it really well. And again, it's that sort of clothing side of things.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

I think they were very well known in the equine industry, but I think it's only the last couple of years that they've really yeah, I've really seen they've broken into that farming, that day-to-day sort of yeah, because I I mean they were like the go-to boots back in my horsey days, but now I'm seeing them as like, oh, they're cool work boots. They're you know, like they account you show, really nice pair of like the the cowboy boots kind of thing. I I've got myself pair looks. I was yep, they're clearly it's clearly working their marketing. Yes, exactly. And then I also think Kaiwaka do quite a good job of this as well. Yeah. Um they've been working with quite a few brand ambassadors, I believe, over the last year. But and I think most of them are very organic. I think most of them probably have been wearing Kaiwaka before they became brand partners. I think that's so important.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

I think that is important, and I think especially if you've got somebody with a following, those cut that core audience has been with them from the start, that is probably your target market because they were interested in the original story, yeah, are gonna have seen that, they're gonna know that, and that's where the trust is built, and they oh, I'm actually you know, when you see a creator, and I'm looking at this probably more outside the industry, and you've seen that they mention a brand and suddenly they are partnering with them, and part of me just goes, Good, yeah, actually good for you. Yeah, I feel like you should be paid by them because you use them a lot and it makes sense. Um, I popped something, albeit last minute, on the stories this morning, asking for sort of feedback on what makes people scroll when they see a partnership and go, Oh, it's clearly like a sponsored thing and it's reads that way, versus why do you s why do you engage? And I think it's the same with any content. Um I'd had messages that were sort of saying it is that authenticity, which I feel like is a word overuse at the moment, um, but natural.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

And it feels like you'd see that content from the creator on any day.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

Yeah, it they don't f it doesn't feel like an ad. I think that's yeah, probably the most important part of it. You're not just coming on screen saying, I'm wearing this today. And here are the products and features, here's the features and benefits of wearing it. You'd be like, ooh, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

I tell you what's just come to mind in terms of where this works quite well and quite naturally, and it does tie in a little bit with FAM24, is um Rebecca and Charlotte do it well with Yeti.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Yes, they do.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

It's quite tongue-in-cheek and funny, and I think it works really, really nicely. So, yeah, so I do think that make it make sense. Yeah, don't force it. And actually, if you feel like you're forcing it or you feel like when you come down to the why, it's down to numbers. I would say use that as a message to just not do it. Yeah, not doing it is better than doing it wrong. Definitely, yeah, I'd be rethinking it at that point. Now, I guess talking about creators and influencers, you naturally go into social media because that's where they are a lot. There are a lot of them. But I think it's really important to acknowledge that it this concept doesn't just sit on socials and that it's actually something that we've been doing quite well in this industry um for a long time, just in other formats. Um using speaking opportunities, all the kind of things that we talk about, what we talked about in the last episode and events, like the speaking opportunities, blog posts, that kind of thing. Find somebody that aligns with what you're doing and can speak on your behalf or can write articles on your behalf because uh we know that print is still alive and kicking. There's a massive chunk of your buying audience as such that are not engaging on socials.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I think it's probably something people gloss over when they're thinking of influencers nowadays, because like you said, it's all very social focused, but there definitely is still benefits to that because it's still a very community-first, people-to-people kind of industry. I think that shouldn't be forgotten about because although it's harder to track, there are a lot of very well respected people in the industry who maybe aren't on social media, but they're everywhere else. They're everywhere and they're talking, and I think that that is yeah, something that's still invaluable in the industry.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Almost having a spokesperson, yes. Um in that kind of sense, and yeah, finding ways that you can collaborate, whether that's putting a written piece out there or them being a case study for you, or all of that kind of thing, it sits under this sort of idea of a partnership. Um and I think sometimes we forget that and some th sometimes brands go, Oh, we can't work with people because we don't have social media, we don't have the time for it. And it's like, actually, I want to say think outside the box, it's not thinking outside the box, it's going backwards in that sense. Um, but I just I think it's worth touching on that touching on it and flagging it, and just well, I guess it goes back to what I've just said about the Andy Burnham episode is that is not social media. Yes, okay, it gets clipped for it.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

But it's a podcast.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Exactly, yeah, different form of content. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Um and utilising the audience of that podcast.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Yeah. Also, when it comes to creators, it's using them in a way that isn't it's it's finding the balance between scripted and letting them be themselves and it being their authentic content. And it's finding the balance between that. And we talked about this at the Ag Edit event um a couple months ago. Um, Jolie from Nobacks spoke about how their use of creators, which is an amazing presentation, and she touched upon this about that line fine line between they need to be getting these touch points in because it's you know it's an animal health product, they can't be saying things wrong. Yes. Um, but without it sounding like a script and sounding like someone stood there saying say this, say that, and being rigid, it needs to be natural and showing them how they use the product. And like she said, they have to be a little bit lenient with you know, farmers don't always have gloves on. And and she I think she really had to fight for that within her team to get the okay on this content because she said you know that is what farmers are doing, and it's coming from their account, it's not necessarily coming from ours, so that that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

Yes, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

And I think yeah, it's it's finding the balance on that.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

It's finding the balance of it, and it's also at actually probably doing a better job because if you are a farmer watching something that is clearly bin, they're ticking every single box over what you should be doing, you're straight away gonna go.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

It just feels a bit fake and it doesn't it's like we all we always say it, farmers buy from farmers. Yeah. So when you're seeing, you know, those perfect product videos where everything is perfectly in line and you know, I think that it's starting screaming slightly corporate. Exactly, yeah. Whereas you're not farming.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

You're not selling to a corporate customer, you're selling to a farmer who's in their wellies and and who tends to watch those creators because you feel like you're just getting a glimpse into their day, you feel like you've just walked in and they're getting on with the job. And as soon as it steps outside of that, yeah, it loses that feeling.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Yeah, definitely. I think that's the best creators are the ones that make you feel like you're friends with them. Yeah. And I think when it becomes a bit forced, you lose that.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Definitely, and I think uh yeah, Jolie's points with that are that they're right because I think if you're starting to look at that, you need to be having those conversations with I guess the powers that be that maybe are saying it needs to be scripted way before you actually get to filming and that side of things, because if you are going to get a blanket no, it has to be this wording from your CEO or whoever it is, you're probably better not doing it. And I do think there are certain industries where there's so many regulations, actually, you better not.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Yes. Yeah, I think you know they they were working with um farmers during lambing time with a lot of their products, which pretty tough time anyway. Yeah, with your you're working long hours and there's a lot going on without the extra pressure of, oh god, I've got to remember all of these points that I've got to say in this video for this brand that have sent me a free product. I think, yeah, that's when if you want the more technical information, that should probably come from within the team.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Yes, and I think that's where you've got that dynamic of partnering with an influencer is part of the strategy. It is part of that showcasing something on farm naturally, but it can't be on its own. No, no, you then have it sits within your wider marketing plans. Um and I guess that's also a point of actually starting to make your employees your influencers.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Yeah, I think that's a really interesting point. I think we we have a lot of opinions on this, do we?

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Um I don't think it's happening a huge amount in ag yet. I think it is in like the agri stores.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

I'm seeing a lot of that.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

A lot of people I think I just need to fill us in more accounts.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Yeah, no, I think yeah, there's there's a lot of good content from like within stores because I think it's easier because there's there's a normally a team of people, and there's generally like three or four people within the store, all the products surrounding them, they seem to jump on trends quite well.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

I think that's where that trend side works. Yeah. Um, and this again, it it links in with everything, is it be savvy about it all. I think in a store where it is quite a relaxed environment and it's you can be a bit more fun with it. Yeah. Don't try and replicate that if you are a law firm.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Yeah.

unknown 21:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Albeit there are a couple out there not within this industry that have done it and have done it quite well. Yes. Um I'll see if I can find them and I might if we do a social post about this. There's something I can't remember who it is. Um, but yes, I think you've got to lean into. Your brand to find your brand guidelines. Yes. If you're working in a financial sector, A, you've got loads of rules and regulations, but B is somebody going to trust Yeah, that is.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

But then I suppose if they've seen your faces, they feel like they get to know you. Yes. I think there is a point of that. People will be like, oh yeah, I saw you on socials.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

I'm definitely not saying don't I think every business should be using employees for content. I think it's a easy solution for having that relatable side. I think it's just how fun you are with it. It needs to be on a bit of a sliding scale depending on the type of business you are. Yeah, yeah, definitely. It's probably yeah, it's probably where I'm at. And I think what's really good, especially for looking at, for example, that Nobax conversation where you're saying you don't need your on-farm creator to be going through all the ins and outs of the whys and the details and exactly how you should do it. That's where you can lean on your vet to do a talking head video or something along those lines. Yeah, definitely. Um and yeah, I think it's it goes back to that starting point of who are you using them, who are you using and why. Yeah. The employee generated content side I think is really fascinating. I've been seeing a few posts on LinkedIn about this whole concept and how we know that um being visible on socials is really key now. And it I've seen people talking about it being part of KPIs, potentially part of job descriptions, that you do have to become part of that. Um I definitely don't think we're there yet from that side of things. Where where do you sit with that?

SPEAKER_00 23:49

I think it's a lot to ask of people to be the face of a brand on social media, particularly a big brand. So I do think it does need to be incentivized in some way. Um, you know, if you're doing your day-to-day job that you're paid X salary for, but then you're also having to create content. I think that's that's another job in itself. So I do think that there should be incentivized and like you said, it needs to be built into job descriptions, really.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

Definitely. And I think just to clarify on this point, because we will do a separate episode on personal branding, when we talk about employee-generated content, we're very much talking about main business accounts utilising their employees.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Yes, rather than their employees being ambassadors for them outside.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Um, because I think they're very separate things. Um, and I also don't believe that you can you if it's your own social media, you can't be told what you should be posting and you can and can't be posting. Whereas if you're utilising your team on your socials, I think we are heading into a world where that is part of most people's job descriptions. Yeah, yeah, definitely. What I would caveat that with is don't use everybody. Certain people are good and certain people are not natural at it.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Yeah. And it's quite hard to find sometimes you'll have one person who's very, very good at it, and then it's kind of like we need other people, otherwise they just become the face of the brand, and that's not necessarily what you want or what they want. So it is, I think it does need to be a mixture of people.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

It does, because you've got to think about succession, yeah, in the sense that people are employed, they are they might leave to leave. Yeah. And you don't want all of your branding to go to go with them. No. So I think it's definitely you need a handful of people, but then I also think there's a hesitation, or I've had conversations with businesses where there's a hesitation because of that. We're like, well, why would we promote somebody who's gonna get something out of it and might leave?

SPEAKER_00 25:48

But I think you've got to think the longer term for your business is I just think it makes sense. But I just think if you have that, and I think if anybody Yeah, like why would I bother training my staff if they're just gonna leave it?

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Well, we do have businesses that have that should be it's the wrong one.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

But yeah, I just think it it builds trust for your business. I mean, I've had it with a client I've worked with, we did a Meet the Team series, and their um their customer service person who people the the first point of call if someone rings the office was was this girl, and her video performed so well because people were like, Oh, I've spoken to her on the phone, I put a photo to the name. And I think that is so important.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

I think I spoke about this with Mary Perry on an episode a few weeks ago, where she's been doing so much work with the dealerships that she works with to make sure that their teams are visible on camera because fundamentally, if you've got a problem with your piece of machinery, you're ringing your dealership. And actually to be able to picture the person that answers the phone, and I know I can be a bit weird with that, but I do like to like if I'm ringing somebody, I like to know who they are. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Um and it adds that level of comfort and trust, everything comes back to trust. Um, and I think the more you can showcase the more you can showcase the expertise in your team, but also the personalities. Definitely. Yeah. Um people by people to cliche for a reason. Yeah. Um and that sort of having a I know I've set I've talked about that sliding scale of fun, depending on the type of business you are, but I I'd encourage every business to dip into it a bit because that is where you don't want to have your employees constantly just doing stiff yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

I don't think it's not going to perform well on your socials either.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

No. And there's an argument for there's a reason you're doing it. Exactly. Yeah. And it's to get that engagement, albeit different engagement for different things. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

User generated content. I love that user-generated content. I think it's invaluable. Um, and I think in terms of getting it, I think we've talked about this before, like when you've got customers tagging you in posts or stories using your products, resharing it, showing your appreciation for that is so important for building that, building that relationship and encouraging other people to do the same. I think that's I think there aren't many brands again that do that particularly well in agriculture.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

No, I think what's interesting is I think it tends to be smaller brands. Yes. And I think that's because it's they don't have that legacy, they've had to they don't have the risk.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

I th I I think there is an argument that if you are small, you're not as well known, you can do so much more because you are not constantly fearful of sharing the wrong person doing the wrong thing. And I think also you're strapped for cash quite a lot of the time. Yeah, you've got to do that. Um, I would encourage bigger businesses to do it. Oh hundred percent because there is nothing better than somebody that's using your product without being paid to, without being gifted it, shouting about it. Nobody's gonna tag you in something if they weren't pleased with it. Exactly. Unless this is a complaint. In which case, I think it I I I almost think that builds trust as well if you can respond properly, yeah, or take it as feedback and acknowledge you're taking it as feedback.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

I think that builds a level of trust or wouldn't even shy away from content from No, I think if you can turn that into a positive spin for your brand, go for it. I don't I wouldn't be afraid of doing that. A lot, like a lot of businesses outside the industry do it. Give it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Absolutely, and I I think if you are looking I there's a lot of companies that I speak to where they say they haven't got social channels because it's too much work and they're a small team, and I absolutely get that. But I would argue that you can utilize user generator content as your strategy.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Yes. I think that takes a little bit of work to build the relationship to get people to tag you in things. I think yeah, it defin it definitely takes some effort in the beginning, but I think once it gains traction, it does get it.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

It sort of it leads itself kind of a thing. Um and I think you can then be creative with it, and then you've almost built a bank of people who you could go to, who you know it's a natural fit, and then you're kind of back in the top of the circle, yeah, coming back around. Um yeah. I think there are a lot of businesses who uh don't reshare anything that that they get tagged in or don't even acknowledge it, and I find that really odd and I don't understand the thinking behind that No, I don't because fundamentally it's in the word social media. It is a community you are building and if you're not looking after those people that are loyal to you. Yeah. What's the point in having it? Exactly. Yeah. It becomes a broadcasting language actually.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

That's not what social media is about.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

No, and it I think it feels uncomfortable sometimes. Definitely I guess that goes quite nicely into the sort of nitty-gritty of the stats around it because we've well actually going back to Gaga Jolie was talking about, and this is more on a general social media perspective, um, that not all stats created equal, and you kind of have to look at what your success, what success is to you for that particular post, because on the surface something might look great, but once you dig deep, it might look great for the wrong reason, yeah. It wasn't actually what your goal was. And I think it's the same with partnering with creators and influencers.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

Definitely. I think you can look at someone with tens of thousands of followers and think, amazing, let's work with them. There's a little bit more to it than that. Only if it wasn't. Yeah, I think looking at not just engagement rate, because and as well, I think it's opening up and being transparent with each other about what your goals are, what you're actually wanting them to do. Do you want them to actually try and generate sales for you, or is it an awareness campaign? What what are your actual goals for this? And being really clear on that, but then them also being transparent on their engagement rate, which might not be that people don't engage publicly as much as they used to. There is a lot more going on in the DMs.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

So they might be privately DMing that person, like, oh, how you know, how did you do that? You know, there's a lot more of that going on. So I think that's really important, and that is actually a better relationship than someone commenting. I think they obviously feel more of a connection to that creator.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Definitely, because I think we've entered that world where there is a obviously social media is performative, but I think I mean so many people now hide their like counts and hide all of that because actually it's everyone's it's fancy. And also I think like I have it sometimes where I'd hesitate to comment because I'm a bit like somebody's gonna see that I've commented, and you're almost in your own head about it, therefore, as you say, there is a lot more to look at than just engagement levels on a particular post.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Yeah, and I think like you said, like a particular post, like have they had a f a viral post or are they consistently yeah, you know, do they consistently have an engaged audience, which I think is very different things. It's quite easy to get a viral post that doesn't really mean anything, but having a consistent audience that keeps coming back and engaging with your content, very different relationship.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Definitely. So I guess if you're approaching somebody, it's not just asking for top line figures, it's looking at it for a longer period, so the last six months, and seeing the averages.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Averages, yes, yeah, definitely. And I think as well, not just not just the vanity metrics like we talk about, it's also like the real finer details, like what are their demographic splits. Um so I worked with a brand um a few years ago who they really wanted to work with this Futramer. And the Futramer said, I'd love to work with you, but realistically, on my socials, my demographic is actually um Housewives in America. And he was like, just to be fully open with you. He was like, you know, I'll wear this on farm, but he's like, I can't promise you that this is gonna generate any sales from my social media, which I think was really good of him to be so open. Yeah, because he had like I think over a hundred thousand followers or something, um, across all his channels. So it's it was really good to be so open, and also a bit of an eye-opener for me working with this brand was I didn't think of that.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

Definitely, you wouldn't that's not the audience, I would assume. No, but hey ho, here we are. Yeah, um, yeah, and I think we were talking about this earlier. I almost think you want to approach it like you would do employing somebody and potentially have okay, maybe not a formal interview, yeah, but a a sit-down discussion, and that that as it does with a job interview, is working for both people. Um because I think you as a business want to know the person behind the account and vice versa. We one of the reasons that creators and influencers work so well in this industry is because they are selling or creating for their own community and the people that they socialise with as well as work with, and therefore, as a creator, you there's a lot on the line for you in terms of brands you partner with. It's not the same as the beauty industry, for example, that seems a little bit more cutthroat. Yeah, yeah, when it comes to these relationships. So I think that is important for it to work on both sides.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Yeah, definitely. I think yeah, just to make sure that that creator feels aligned with your brand as well. Yes. Um, yeah, again, that the ag edit, Will Aggri mentioned how he was approached by Pizza Hut, which I thought was brilliant. But he turned it down because he was like, that doesn't align with what I'm doing. What I'm doing. But you know, my followers would be confused by that. And I thought that was really refreshing to hear from someone in the industry that actually that they were thinking strategically about that, which I thought was really positive.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Definitely, and I think it also comes down to you you kind of want to know from the business who else they're working with and the other side. Yeah. Every I think you have to be really honest in these conversations.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Yeah, if there's any kind of competitor that you know they might be working with, is that or have previously worked with it? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, is that going to look disjointed if they suddenly start working with you? I think these are all conversations that that need to be had. Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

I feel like we've ticked off a lot. I think we could have gone in quite in-depth in some of those points. Anything that you need to get off your chest that we haven't talked about.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

I think I've I want to quickly cover. Yeah. Because I feel like it I and I've d I've noticeably done it throughout this conversation, is I've kept saying influencer slash creator.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

The difference.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

The difference is the one.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

I think being I think people are starting to use the word creator now because it's being seen as more business-like.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

And people are approaching it with a strategic mindset, thinking of it as like a long-term business, rather than just yeah, influencing. I think it sounded it's definitely influencing the word influencing definitely had a bit of a stigma around it.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Yeah, and I think this is where are we stopping using it because of that stigma, or actually is this whole concept just developed to the point where it's a term that just doesn't work?

SPEAKER_00 38:05

People are making more effort with their content, I believe, now. And I think that's why, like, as well in I think that agri influencers are realizing that that they're taking making a lot of effort to create content for brands. So they should be rewarded for it with probably more than just a freebie. Yes. Um so yeah, I think it's But not having what has been a stigma attached to it. Yeah, but it's being it's like you said it's being seen like as a diversification rather than just I think when if the the term influencing started, I think it was almost accidental, really, wasn't it? It was people would start following people because they liked their aesthetic, liked whatever they were doing, and then they were they were influenced by that.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

Whereas now it's become a lot more commercial.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

And I think it you are fundamentally creating it makes sense, but you're also influencing. I think we're right to some extent to try and get rid of the stigma because you wouldn't have the same the same negative view that I think can, especially in other industries, is attached to influencers, you wouldn't have if they were if they'd been asked to speak in an event because they hold influence.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

I think it's purely because they're posted on social media.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Yeah, I think I think it's worth thinking about. It's probably not for every business, but I think it's something that should be considered. And like you said, there's different kind of ways to work with people. And I think yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

And different budget levels and all of that. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Yeah, like is it a gifted, you know, just a gifted post?

SPEAKER_01 39:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Or is it a long-term partnership? And I think I think long-term partnerships work better. Definitely. But it's what, you know, it's what you can do.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

I think my yeah, my gut feeling on it is the long-term partnerships or user or employee generated content feel like the most natural, trustworthy opportunities. What my one piece of big advice is don't start your strategy or your whether that's just a social strategy or your overall strategy, with that being the be all and end all.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

No, definitely. Yeah, you cannot rely on it alone. It needs to fit in with the wider strategy.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

And it's probably the thing that could be removed. Or I would say, does the rest of your strategy work if that's removed?

SPEAKER_00 40:18

Yeah. I think it's a piece of the pie, but I think it it can feed different completely pieces. So I think, yeah, it does. It's something that can change as well, though. So you could start working with one creator, you cannot rely on them forever. You need to have a succession plan as well for that.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

Yeah, and you need to have other stuff going on so that if that stops, there's not a void.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

Yeah. I think that's probably where we need to stop simply before we just keep rambling. Um, well, thank you very much for listening. This has been the AgriWorks Podcast. You can subscribe, and I would really, really encourage you to because every subscriber helps us sort of get a bit of a boost. We are upping our episodes. Um, previously it's been once a month, but because I have another brain involved, a very, very capable brain in terms of episode topics and just somebody to bounce ideas off. We're going to be doing episodes every couple of weeks. If there are any topics that you'd be interested in hearing, please let us know. And you can find us on socials. I'm Steph Rogers on Instagram and LinkedIn. You can also follow AgriWorks at agriconnect underscore agriworks on Instagram. We will see you in a couple of weeks.