What Coaching Athletes Teaches You About Building a Business

Lewis Moses is a high-performance running coach and business owner, helping athletes and coaches grow through clear systems, strong values and long-term thinking.

In this conversation, he shares the parallels between coaching elite athletes and building a service-based business – from people management and leadership to patience, consistency and handling setbacks.

Lewis also talks about scaling a coaching brand, maintaining standards across a team, using routines like journaling and exercise to stay grounded, and why technology and AI should enhance great coaching rather than replace it.

A thoughtful discussion on performance, purpose and building something that lasts.

Chapters

00:00 Intro
00:18 What’s harder: coaching athletes or building a business?
01:46 What surprised Lewis most about starting a company
03:47 Patience, process, and long-term thinking in business
04:26 Sticking to the plan vs knowing when to pivot
06:35 How improving a business is like improving a runner
09:02 When Lewis realised the business needed systems
11:42 Building trust and consistency across multiple coaches
14:22 How to motivate athletes and employees who lose belief
17:13 Fear vs belief in performance and business
19:27 Resetting after setbacks, injuries, and difficult periods
22:36 Daily habits for long-term performance and resilience
25:12 Micro-recovery, structure, and avoiding burnout
26:26 Will technology and AI replace coaches?
28:29 Lewis’s advice for starting a service-based business
29:52 Outro

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Lewis, what is harder? Coaching athletes or building the business around coaching?

SPEAKER_01 0:05

That's a great question. Depends who you're working with, isn't it? That's the uh million dollar million dollar answer. Depends which athletes you're working with and who's in your business. Um what is harder? Um I think the difficult thing with both those things, and I guess this is where they have parallels, is that it does a lot of it comes down to people management, knowing who you're working with, uh understanding people's personalities, making sure that you're aligned where with their goals and your goals, and uh making sure you've got a very good relationship with those people you're working with. Uh, and I think, yeah, not none of it's easy when you're dealing with people because you're dealing with emotions and you're dealing with other people's lives, and um both coaching and work, you you deal with those in different ways, but there's a lot of responsibility placed on you as a coach and a business owner. You know, as a business owner, uh you're working with people um and their livelihood depends on you as a business owner, and when you're coaching people, their goals often depend on so certain, certainly some part of it depends on you and the and the work you're putting in. So um you can feel a lot of pressure from it, and I think pressure's probably the one thing that comes into both of them, but I don't really view it as like being harder or difficult because they enjoy what I do, so it's a really difficult question to answer, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Oh, yeah, it makes sense, and yeah, it's interesting the kind of the parallels between the two, I think. And what are the things that surprise you the most about starting a company versus coaching the athletes? Because obviously you're a high-level coach, you're one of the best in the world at what you do, but then running a business and starting a business is a completely separate beast. But the principles that happen, the things that happen when you are coaching athletes, a lot of those do things are translatable. Um, but what are the things that kind of shocks you when you being an expert in your field then try to take on starting a business?

SPEAKER_01 2:01

I think one of the things that surprised me early on was I didn't know as much as I thought I would know in both the coaching and the business department. And uh, you know, I've been coaching for well, I've actually been coaching for around about 20 years because I've got my coaching licenses at university. Um, but you're always learning and you think you know a lot. But there's a great quote from Gareth Southgate when he took the Middlesbrough job, uh, and he said, if I knew what I know now about managerial processes and coaching, I probably would never have taken that job, but I had to take the job to get the experience of what I've got to. Um, and I think I can relate to that because you think you know a lot about coaching until you delve deeper into the coaching world and you're just constantly learning. Um, but the biggest thing that surprised me about growing and scaling a business was the amount of time that I was spending doing the business as opposed to doing the coaching. So I was meant to be a coach, but a lot of my time uh quickly became the business side, and with that I was clueless at first. And you have to learn very quickly, but as you've quite rightly pointed out, there's a lot of parallels in that as well. And it is about process, it's about goal setting, it's about direction, it's about having a plan, it's about sticking to the plan, and it's about surrounding yourself with the right people and the right team, which yeah, I'm very familiar with from a coaching point of view. So I was quickly learning on the job, but yeah, the biggest surprise was definitely a lot of my time was taken up, not coaching. Um, but that's how you build a business, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Yeah, definitely. And that like the consistency of training is parallel to consistency of running a business, and there's there's a lot in that, but what does it actually look like in what does the actual the patience of running a business look like in practice when you're kind of thinking about um because when you're a coach and you've got goals and targets for your athletes and you've got a period of time, 12, 16 week plans that versus a business, which is one, two, three, four, five years where you're looking down the pipe, it's completely different from that perspective. So, how do you manage to translate that patience from athlete coaching into business?

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Yeah, I think I think you've got to have a good balance of both, actually, especially being like a new young business where you're looking to develop at quite a quick rate, and um you've I think my mindset is very process-driven. I like to do things by the book, but I've learned over time that sometimes you do have to be a bit more reactive, you have to be a little bit more responsive, um, and you have to make like quick decisions, and um that isn't something I was I was comfortable with, uh, and I've had to get a lot more comfortable with. But this weekend, from a coaching perspective, is a really good example of how the two work hand in hand. So Gemma my wife, who are coach and um, you know, at a crew for and in big races, she was offered what they call a Western States golden ticket at the weekend, which is like one of the biggest prizes in Ultra Trail uh running, and she had that handed to her on stage, and it would have been easy for her to make that decision to take that Western States ticket because it's hard to come by, it's what everybody's chasing, it's a big prize. And from the outset, a lot of people would have looked in and thought, what's she doing? She's stupid not not taking that ticket, but it's not part of the plan, and it's not part of the process, and that process is a two or three year um process to get her to where she wants to be. And I was so confident that it was the right decision not to take that ticket. But there's been times in business where I've seen things that have happened and I've gone, you know what, I'm just gonna do that, even though it's not part of the plan. And I think it's easy to deviate from your plan, and sometimes you need to, you need to be willing to pivot and you need to be willing to change, but sometimes you need to stick to your guns and you need to say, no, this isn't right for us, because there's so much you can go at. And it's the same in the like the running world, there's so much you can go at. You know that, Matt. Like, there's so many events, there's so many disciplines, there's so many opportunities, and you can get just get dragged into doing too much. And I think when you do that, um you become too what I would recall, you come too broad, you're not narrow enough, you're not focused enough, and you're not driven enough on on what the goal actually is. So, yeah, I think the process and the the word consistency is key, is saying staying consistent to your goals and your beliefs and and trying to yeah, try to not deviate too much, but sometimes you do have to pivot, so it's a bit contradictory there.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Yeah, no, like a lot of things with with training and uh running in particular or coaching in in sport, you can plan things out, but there's often stuff that just kind of knocks you off track, you get an injury, or something gets cancelled, and you don't get to do that event or race. That's the same thing in business, and that's what you're uh uh alluded to there in terms of the adaptability of business, is quite similar to coaching in that perspective. It's just business of maybe more of those deviation points than there is when you're running and and performing at a high level as an athlete. How similar is improving a business to improving a runner?

SPEAKER_01 6:52

That is a fantastic question because I, in my mind, I almost build my business and then try and improve my business exactly like I would try and improve an athlete. You know, I set off and I'm I'm visioning, you know, what is the end goal, what is a 10-year goal, what is a five-year goal, what is a three-year goal. And with any athlete I work with to a certain extent, I'm always looking at what we class as long-term athlete development. So in a business, I'm looking at it as like, well, what is the business development over that period of time? And what do I need to do in the short term? And then that breaks down in business to you know KPIs and goal setting. Um, with the athletes, it's looking at the goals that they have in that year, and then you break that down into process goals. What would you like to see achieve in this periodization of training? And that in business is like the quarters within the year. What do we want to achieve in quarter one, two, three, and four? So there's lots of what I would do with an athlete that I apply to business in in a slightly different sense. Um, but I do think that the similarities come, especially with what we've seen in the over our years of being an athlete, of you've got to keep showing up. You're gonna have good days, you're gonna have bad days, you can't ride the highs too high, you can't ride the lows too low, you can't become too emotionally invested in it. Like I know that's crazy to say when it's your own business, but I think sometimes you have to be willing to take emotion out of it in the same way you do with with the running, um, because it can get on top of you. And you can go on Sunday some days and you can think, what the hell am I doing this for? Right, why am I putting my trainers on? Why am I going out the door? What why am I doing this? And it's the same with business. You can show up and you think, why am I doing this? But the next day could be like incredible, and you think, This is why I do it, this is why I get out of bed. Um, so there's lots and lots of like parallels in that, but I do do try and build a business in the same way as I try and develop an athlete because I see it as the same thing, it's developing something over a period of time that needs focus and attention.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

So, one of the things that you've done, and like I mentioned before, one of the one of the world's top running coaches, coaching athletes is one thing, but then building systems to coach other coaches to then coach athletes is a completely different beast. So you're moving from individual coaching to systems and uh in a business, you're spending a lot of time and effort when you first start something, a lot of sweat equity goes into it. It's all you, everything relies on you. But as you employ staff and you scale the business, it becomes about how you train those systems. When did you realize the business you had needed systems and not just that effort?

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Oh, yeah, pretty, pretty quickly. Um, as soon as you start taking on, I guess, new coaches, new employees, because um everybody has their own coaching style, right? And I that was one thing I was adamant about when I set the business up is that we won't enforce our style onto other coaches because I feel it's important for coaches to have their own style. So I was yeah, that was, I guess, a mistake on my part that I just was letting coaches crack on a little bit too much. Um, because one thing you do need in any business is standardization. You need certain standards that everybody is accountable to, and that's not to say the coaches are doing a bad job, it's to do to look more at what the customer expects of your business. Because what you don't want is one coach to be delivering one service and then another coach to be delivering a complete different service. So quite quickly I realized that we needed like service level standards in there that are consistent, but that also allows the coach's structure and guidance to help them do their job better as well. And the other thing that comes in with coaching, because as you know, as being an athlete yourself, you're always wanting to get hold of your coach, and now with technology around and the way technology is, you can contact them in pretty much any way you want to. Like we had to put boundaries in place as well, and that was boundaries in place to help protect our coaches, but also it's boundaries in place to help you know protect the athletes as well, because the coach won't always be there and won't always have the answer, and it's important for the athletes to have a little bit of accountability too. So, not just to give them every single answer because they should be on a bit of a learning journey as well. So, yeah, pretty quickly I established that we need systems, we need processes, we need standardization, and then with that becomes more time, like putting those in place in order to create like what we class as like a scalable model. Um, and I've definitely not figured it out, like nowhere near. I think everything's evolving. You think you've got something figured out, and then next minute something new comes along, and then you start you can kind of start from scratch. But I'm a big believer in you learn over time as well, and without that experience, you wouldn't learn for what's to come next.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

One of the things you mentioned there about kind of having a process for most of the coaches to do a certain thing and the outliers of having someone doing something a bit different. How do you maintain that trust as you grow? Because if you've got those kind of outliers and those people doing their own version of coaching, that's great, and there's that flair element to it. But how do you maintain that core trust that you built as an individual coach across multiple coaches and across a coaching brand?

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Yeah, it's tricky, it's it's really, really difficult because what what works for you won't always work for another coach as well. So it's it's really hard to say that you've got to do it this way, you should follow my style. And I'm not gonna be the best coach for every athlete out there either. That their personality might be different, they might not suit working with me. Um, but there are certain things that I want to do that I want to embed within our culture, and I think that's the key to it is creating a culture that um allows coaches to thrive and allows them to develop, um, but also allows us to come together as a team to make sure that we can develop together and learn together. So we have you know regular coaching CPD meetings, we've got one this Friday, that's like a monthly check-in where we all get together uh and we look at what processes we all use and what practices we use to make sure that we're all aligned on what we're doing. Um because one thing we don't want to happen is for one coach to be going off on a tangent and giving people the completely wrong thing, right? That's the worst thing that could happen. Um, so we also do regular check-ins, we get feedback from our customers, and again, that's not to catch the coaches out, but we just need to make sure that the service that we're offering is is the right service. So feedback from our customers, and generally that's pretty amazing. Um, but it's it's really difficult when you don't get that positive feedback. That's one of the things I really struggled with as a business owner is you know having those difficult conversations with anybody when um the level of service isn't uh isn't being delivered as to what is expected, um, and they might think they are um delivering that service, and that's not a failure on their part, that's a failure on my part because I've obviously not done a good enough job at uh explaining to them what we want that service to be. So the accountability stops with me. Um eventually, if they keep making the same mistakes, of course, then there has to be a level of accountability with the employee or with the coach, but we've got to make sure that those systems you're you're describing are in place to help the coaches thrive as well, so they don't just go off on their own and and make potential mistakes, or they don't um yeah, deliver a service that isn't expected of us.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

That's a difficult one in terms of motivation, I suppose. And you're used to coaching athletes and motivating them to hit certain targets and certain goals, but changing that motivation to your coaches, uh, how do you probably first question is how do you motivate an athlete that's lost belief in themselves? And then secondly, how do you translate that into the business perspective when you're trying to motivate an employee or a a coach that has lost a bit of belief?

SPEAKER_01 14:30

With it with an athlete, it's it's a common question you know, people say, I've lost my running mojo or I've lost lost my confidence. Um the first thing is like, how can we find that confidence again? Whether that's a a confidence session, um, whether it's just literally setting some very basic goals of trying to get them um back into good habits. But I'm a big believer that like motivation comes off the back of action. So often what you see when people have lost confidence is they lose routine, they lose structure. Um so the first thing for me is establishing like some really clear goals that they can hit to help build their confidence back up, but also defining what they want to hit, like what why have they lost confidence? What is it that's caused that lack of confidence? You know, have they missed a goal that they were potentially aiming for? Um, but also delving a little bit deeper as well. And and sometimes sometimes you've got to get it give a little bit of like true love and tell them how it is and say, you know, maybe you were unrealistic, but sometimes you've got to look for what they did well. A lot of people focus on like an outcome goal or a result, you know, a sub-three hour marathon, a sub-four hour marathon. Um they might have run a half marathon, personal best on the way to that marathon, but on the day of the marathon, it just went wrong. But making sure you highlight that because you were trying to achieve that goal, you've ticked off some really good goals along the way. Um, and making sure you you don't miss those opportunities to celebrate success. And same with with coaches, like I guess the the difficulty for any business owner, I would say, is finding people who are as motivated as yourself to build your business and to care about it as much as yourself. And the honest answer is you never find that person. Like you've got you've got to accept it very quickly. Um, I wasn't willing to accept that quickly enough. Um, now I've accepted it. It's about making sure that the motivations are in place to um motivate the coaches to succeed at in what they want to succeed in. So finding out what is it they want to they want to achieve. Like, do they want to be the best coach in the world? Okay, how can we help deliver that? Um, do they do they want to coach as a full-time job? And actually they just see that as a job and they want to develop as a coach, but they maybe want to learn a little bit more about business too. Okay, we need to bring them into the business then, so they'll coach, but maybe they'll become more of an operational person eventually. So finding out their motivations and working with them on that, but unless you understand the individual, it's really hard to get somebody motivated. You've got to you've got to go and find out what it is they want.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

One of the things that when I was competing, and I wasn't nowhere near as as successful as yourself, yourself winning national titles, competing in the the world indoors, but f from my perspective, there was a point in time where I was more afraid of losing than I was wanting to win. And when I did that, I realised that I wasn't the person that I thought I was. Do you think that fear or belief is a stronger driver? So, like relating this to an athlete at a top level, but then also trying to relate that to potentially an employee within a business and being fearful of losing versus the belief in trying to improve something.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

The um I think fear is the biggest detriment of performance. I really do. Um, I think it holds people back. There's a great saying in a film, man of fire, um, the gunshot holds no fear, Denzel Washington. Um, it's like the good the gunshot's almost holding the little girl back on the swimming box. And I just I strongly believe that if people are fearful, they're not bringing out the best in themselves. I think you need a level of like anxiousness and nervousness. But if you're in true fear of something, for me, like you're not enjoying the process of it. Um, I see the best results come from people, both in business and uh in the running world, when they generally enjoy what they do and they're enjoying the process, and the outcome is just what it is because they've enjoyed the process. Uh, and that's that's what I'm trying to build when I work with an athlete is how do I get you to enjoy this process so that when you come to race day, like Paula Radcliffe describes it as like that's the party time, like we're going out to party. But if you're going out there to prove something to everybody else and yourself, I think there'll always be a level of tenseness, you know, you'll always be you're always tense on that start line, like you're you're having to prove something. Um, and I think it's the same in business. If you're always trying to do stuff to impress other people or you're worried about what people think, I just think it sucks the creativity out of people. Um, so I think whether it's belief or fear that drives people, I just my view on it is that people need to enjoy what they do, and if they don't enjoy what they do, then they're very likely to not be getting the best out of themselves.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

There's a point in time when you're training in racing where you feel like you have to do certain things, and like part of the process is just you have to go and train that day. You don't want to, but you have to, and that's a difficult thing because most people have to go to work to be able to pay their bills, so it's that it's that line of how do you like play on that? And that's it's it kind of a difficult one. But one of the things I was thinking about then in terms of setbacks, in terms of injuries, in terms of um people leaving jobs or something going wrong with paper, like that kind of stuff happens in business and happens in in training and performance. How do you reset after a setback? What what are the things the some of the the tactics that you use to because you've been injured yourself and you've had loads of experience in this sort of stuff with your athletes, but what are the things you did personally to kind of take a step back and reset? And what are the things down now that you preach to your athletes and employees?

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Yeah, it's a really difficult one with injuries because I I feel like as an athlete I used to deal with injuries pretty well because I used to accept it very quickly that it either was my own fault for getting injured because I'd done something wrong or not not done enough of like a strengthening exercise or whatever it might be. Um, but what really can you do about it once it's there? And my theory was okay, well, I'm gonna control what I can. What can I do? So I used to say, get rid of the T off can't. What what can I do? Um, and I would focus on all the things that I could do. I probably had, like, and I use this word um you know very carefully. Um, I had the you know, the privilege of going through a life-changing experience with my wife Gemma. And I say the privilege because I do generally feel like it changed our outlook on life, but she hit rock bottom when she was diagnosed with cancer in 2012, and you know, she was stripped back from being uh an elite athlete right at the top end of a game to you know she couldn't go out the door um without walking and getting out of breath. She lost all her hair, she put on weight, she was, you know, completely stripped of all her uh white blood cells. So it was building back up from like rock bottom, really. Um, and it was just seeing her, like I guess her perspective on that of right, this is the start of something new now. So now I've got to rebuild from where I am, but not putting limitations on what the future may hold as well, but just taking each day as it comes and going, right, fresh start, come on, like let's let's set myself new goals. And the first goal was go out for a run with a mum, right? And it it's realigning those those goals, but not dismissing what were the previous goals as well, if you still want them enough. And I think you've got to be willing to do that. You've just got to say, okay, the plan's changed, but my route to in order to get to that destination looks slightly different. But it doesn't mean the destination doesn't have to be there. People set themselves goals, and if they're not going to hit it within six months, they think, oh. That goal's gone. Well, has it gone really? Or can you just readjust your expectations and do it two or three years down the line? But patience is the you know, people say patience is a virtue. I think that for me is is the driver here. You've got to be willing to be patient, and people just want things too quickly.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Yeah, definitely. And one of the things I'm thinking about now is that long-term thinking, and what are some of the practical things that you would do to get to make sure that that habit of like that habit, the habits are there in place to help your long-term performance. So delve into like the the day-to-day living, the things that you do to reset, to relax, to to ensure that in six weeks' time you can keep motivated and keep pushing. What what are some of the things that come to mind when I think about that? And I do know you and I do know a lot of the things that you you do do, but I some of the things that I think are impressive about how you handle yourself is that consistency in doing these things.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Yeah, so exercise is a big thing for me, obviously. Getting out and and having time to myself, I think that's really, really important. That for me is like meditation, thinking time is just being alone sometimes with other people as well. That's fine. Um, but it is a switch off from the world of work. Sometimes I do have I like a podcast to listen to, but that's for me to go out and think about things as well and be away from the desk. Um, I journal every single day. I've done that for you know uh best part of four four years now. Every morning I kick off with with my journaling routine and look at what I want to achieve from the day, what I'm grateful for, um, what I'm looking forward to. Uh it's a very basic process, but it gives me structure and routine. Um, and then I've just learned over time that um I need to recognize the different spells that I'm in. So, for example, I was away at the weekend, I know I'm gonna come back to a busy day, and my my old self would have got really overwhelmed with how much there was to do. Um, now I block out some time to make sure I've got time to address all those things. So I use what I call block time in my calendar uh and I spend that time making sure I'm catching up on things. Uh, but before I would have got anxious about that, I wouldn't have set the set the set aside the time to do that. I'd have just gone back into my normal day-to-day life. So I use my calendar very effectively. I make sure people are very aware of what I'm doing and what I'm not doing. Um, and I find that routine and that structure really helps me. Um, but I am a creature of habit as well, as you know. I do like structure and routine, I need some of that in my life in order for me to thrive. So yeah, going away for me, it's hard for me to go away for like a week on holiday and fully relax. I don't think I'll ever be able to do that, to be honest. Um, it's just the type of person I am. Um, I just need structure routine, and I guess I just enjoy what I do as well. So I like to be finding out what other people are doing.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

I watched this thing I like years ago, I I really got into Tim Ferriss and the way he was the way he discussed talking about a business. He was talking about basically taking holidays from your business, but it was it was to make sure they had systems in place to be able to leave and do that so you could go and do your thing, be refreshed. And then there was a bit of a joke about I think Gary Neville talked about it in a podcast. Everyone took the mick out of him for saying it. Like he was saying that basically um like a like a day off was like a holiday, and it was like micro dosing holidays essentially. But what you're talking about there is you're finding moments within a day, even more micro than that, to get your relaxation in to make sure that you can keep moving at a fast pace over a longer period of time. And that's something that I think a lot of people don't necessarily do that well, let it all build up and then just blow. Whereas you're making sure that you have block time, you're making sure that you are reflecting with your journal, you're making sure you are you are exercising, like that alone, those three things will make sure that someone can last a long time doing whatever, whether it's training or business and that sort of stuff. Uh one of the questions I want to ask you, and probably the final one for this conversation, but do you think that technology will replace human coaches? Or do you think that technology will enhance human coaches?

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Uh I believe technology will enhance human coaches. I would I I will go a step further back and say I believe technology's already enhanced us as coaches, and it continues to. I think the introduction of AI can enhance that further. I don't believe that they will replace us or AI will replace us. That might be me, you know, not thinking long enough into the future, but I don't think I'll see it in my lifetime as a as a coach. Um, and the reason for that is because, in you know, for for as long as I can ever remember, and as far back as you go in the history books, human interaction has been like uh, you know, almost like a basic need of people being around each other and relying on people and relationships and people finding love and gratitude from from other people. And I don't think you can get that yet from computers, and I'm not sure you ever will do. Um, but I think it would be remiss of us to say, look, we're always going to be better than AI. I think if you're saying that as a coach, you are not looking at the greater landscape of what's going on in the world, um, because I am using AI already to improve my knowledge and my expertise, and I see that as an opportunity to get ahead of the game. Um, but I think if you are stubborn enough to say, no, we will always be greater than AI, I think you you you're kind of walking a very, very dangerous line. And it's already enhanced the coaching world, like it's made us think a lot differently about our practice and what we're doing because now people can get training plans at the click of their fingers and they can get them AI generated. We need to step our game up in order to be better than that. And if you were being lazy before you're coaching, you can't now because a computer will outdo you. So, in some ways, it's gonna force out the rubbish and it's gonna bring the kind of people who are there and genuinely there to help people right to the top. But I think there'll be a greater value placed on that over time, if I'm honest. I think people will start to value that more.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Definitely it makes a lot of sense. And just to to wrap things up, we we end this with uh you're asking for a bit of advice uh from yourself to give to other people. So, what advice would you give to someone starting a service-based business like you started?

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Oh, it's a great question. Um my advice would be um always stay true to your values, uh, remember why you set it up in the first place, and there was a reason you chose to get into the the service-based world to deliver a service and never deviate too much away from that service that you want to offer that person. Um, because if I look at the businesses we've both set up, you know, you set up a running event company to deliver events on a mass scale to people to give them opportunity to start a race and and cross that finish line, and you still do that on a grand scale now. Um, but you've never deviated too much away from that, and you still present the opportunity. And I set my business up uh up with the vision of helping people to change their lives to the power of running by coaching them. Um and I've always stayed true to that. But if you start to deviate away from that, I think you start to get into to muddied waters. So always remember your values and why you what service you set up and always stick to that service unless you're gonna get out.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Perfect. Thank you, Lewis.