The Commercial Value of Talent - Mark Middlemas, CEO – The Athlete Media Group

Is the commercial value of talent shifting? Mark Middlemas, CEO of The Athlete Media Group spoke to Matt about the evolving role of athletes in branding.

In the past, brands saw talent as mere figures to endorse products. But now, it’s about weaving authentic stories that resonate. The world of creators, influencers and elite athletes has exploded, creating a blend that offers brands unique opportunities. 

Athletes today are more than just faces; they’re relatable stories that connect deeply with audiences. This authenticity is what brands crave. It’s about finding the right athlete who can genuinely represent their values and mission. 

As Mark points out, it’s crucial for brands to understand what they want out of these relationships. It's not just about transactions; it’s about building long-term partnerships that thrive on authenticity.

Chapters:

0:00 Intro: The commercial value of talent

0:34 How brands now view athletes, creators and influencers

2:54 Why authentic athlete stories matter to major brands

4:43 Moving beyond name value and PR announcements

5:39 How brands and athletes find the right commercial fit

6:39 What Athlete Media Group does for sporting talent

8:05 Why brands should think beyond social media posts

9:32 Budgets, briefs and building long-term partnerships

10:54 Protecting athletes from the wrong brand deals

12:44 Measuring success: sales, brand value and authenticity

14:32 What brands look for in long-term athlete relationships

17:21 Why in-person relationships still matter in marketing

19:45 AI, content creation and the future of athlete profiles

22:43 Quickfire: gold medallist or creator with millions of followers?

24:07 Do brands overpay for fame or underpay for influence?

25:52 Advice for people wanting to work in athlete management

27:32 Final thoughts and wrap-up

Transcript

0:00

Talent has changed remarkably in the seven years that I've been running uh Athlete Media Group. Um, when I was working with the likes of Coca-Cola and MasterCard back in my agency days, you know, talent was kind of there. There were, you know, Coca-Cola, they dabble with them in their big World Cup campaigns and and stuff like that. But the world is very, very different now, isn't it? You know, the the world of creators, influencers, you know, elite talent and the blend of all three. It's um, you know, it's a it's a very different world. And there's lots of opportunity there. There's probably a lot more challenges, a lot more work to be done. Um, but the the talent side of thing, I think, has exploded. You only have to see the number of briefs we get on a weekly basis around the creators, particularly around the Football World Cup. You know, they're not they're not just using athletes, they're using creators and influencers to drive um campaigns. So it's a really interesting time. It's really exciting. New agencies have sprung up. And, you know, ultimately, we're a sports marketing agency powered by purpose, with uh the the human element right in the middle. So the talent that we look after and work with are those stories right at the center of the business, but all the ways in which you can market around the outside, and that's evolving. It's evolving all the time. You know, I had a conversation this morning with um someone who's a broadcaster, but wanting to get into making more um creating more uh content. So his world is changing very, very quickly. Another lady last week doing exactly the same. So um it's not standing still, it's getting faster. Um, but the the the the the premise and the fundamentals of a personal brand for talent remains the same. And it's just the different opportunities around it to harness that is where I think brands are playing some really interesting moves. So, some of the major brands that you've dealt with over the years, I imagine they're so big they don't really need more attention on what they do or what they are, but some of the intricacies of what they try to get into, some of the niches, some of the areas, some things they want to talk about that can't necessarily be talked about through that main channel brand. Finding athletes and finding people that can promote those things, microcreators, but for this conversation, it's it's definitely athletes. And what are some of the things that the athletes that you have in your roster tap into that those major brands don't necessarily have within the locker themselves? Well, it's the authenticity of story, I think, from from the talent side of things, from the elite sports men and women. Um, and that's where you know we talked about it earlier, this whole performance purpose side of things. You can be the greatest um, you know, sports man or woman on the planet. But if if your for me, if your purpose isn't there, um it's it just becomes a bit sort of um sterile. I I just don't see there's as much of a story there. And if you're a brand, you want to have hooks that are different to um your competitors. And I think that's where there's that blend between a big brand who, yeah, they've been around maybe a hundred years, but they're ultimately selling product of some sort. If you can align that to an ambassador or a talent uh, you know, from a sports perspective, it allows you to go into that in a much richer way rather than just badging a TV ad with the star in it. There's lots of different ways now and different channels. And you know, if you've got a team set up inside a brand or an agency that wants to harness the power of the talent in a 360 way, then I think you get a lot more out of the relationship and the partnership. And that's what I'm seeing more of at the moment. Lots of brands are harnessing the talent in lots of different ways rather than just the the old school sort of badger in a TV advert way. Yeah, you could definitely see, and these athletes are living, breathing people doing their own thing. And I imagine lots of the people you have in your roster have their own social media profiles. Many years ago, you put out a PR release, you'd include a famous name on it, and you'd expect that to do the work, but now it's not necessarily just about the words on a sheet, it's about the actions off the back of it. And you can see with the kind of the people you have in your roster that that is more likely to happen than just sticking a major name on a on a sheet there. And one of the questions I was going to ask is if if one of your athletes promoting 10 different brands, or like say five different brands, yeah, how do they give that same authenticity to each one of those different brands they work with? And do you find that brands are coming to you for that particular thing that athlete represents, or are you having to share what the athlete does to those brands to get the most out of it? I think it's a combination of both, Matt, really. Um the athletes are you know sometimes doing their own work as well, so they're they're using their platform and profile and their life story and the meetings of people to um find opportunities, and we work with them to do that. Um, we're outreaching the whole time, and and brands and agencies are coming to us. So it's it's very much a 50-50 or uh, you know, a different split. Um, but it's you know, it's what's really exciting is that you know, if you've got the we're doing the outreach, we're explaining the story behind the athlete and the um, you know, talking to brands in person or on video calls um like this. Um, but sometimes it can just be an opportune moment, or it might be a media article that they've seen, or you know, a PR article, and the client rings us up straight away and says, I love this story, can you tell me more? So you've got to be hustling the whole time, and um, you know, there's no fixed rule. It's um, you know, there's a lot of different ways people can get in touch with you, the athlete, um, in different ways. And just just for delving deeper on what you guys do for the business, like how do you represent those athletes? Are you an all-in-service that kind of helps athletes be managed, or are you commercially based only, or like what is the field? We do everything apart from the the contract with the club or the team in in that respect. So all the commercial stuff, all the media and PR advice and strategic sort of consultation around how they should use their social media and harness it. What about their media and PR outreach? Who do they want to be and who do they want to talk to? Um, you know, books and content, film, documentaries, all the different things around um how a brand would look to communicate. We do exactly the same with um the sporting talent that we work with. And some are more demanding than others because of the um the performance and the achievements that they've done in their career. Others are just starting out, so it might be a rising star. You know, you've got to start in a different way. When you're an established talent that's won Olympic gold medals, makes things a little bit easier to knock on the door. And if you're a retired legend, then it's a different dynamic completely, but there is still commercial value and value in building momentum around your story and and what you're doing now. So there's there's different stages that we look at, but ultimately it's about creating a commercial plan that involves those different moving parts. Uh, is it more about that athletes' profile uh that they have and their active profile? Or is it about their name? I know you mentioned then famous previous superstars, and you see a lot of it um with former footballers and former boxers and on on tour and doing that sort of stuff, and they have they hold weight, but is it really for those brands about what that person can do um with their own social media channels and their own yeah? I think that's I think that's that's often the starting point. I I'd like to go back right to the beginning of you know, what does the brand want to get out of the relationship with the talent or the the variety of talent that they've got. Um, and if you start at that point at the very beginning, I think you get a lot more out of it. If if a brand or an agency comes to you and says, can they just promote a product on social media? Hey, listen, you know, everyone's got to put food on the table and the athletes will often take it as long as the brand fits with their values and where they are at that moment in time. But I'd like brands to be a bit more um adventurous in their relationships with talent. Um, in you know, it's it's a default, it's a very easy thing to say, let's just harness social media. But there's different ways in which you can harness the other channels. Um, and I I think hopefully, you know, more brands will see that opportunity around the 360 of engagement with a with a talent rather than just social media only. And obviously, brands have activation costs when they try and deliver upon something, they're gonna have a budget set in mind for like that that person, that staff member, sorry, sorry, that uh athlete to be part of it, but then they'll have their own staff members to be brought into it to help facilitate it. In the conversations that you have on a day-to-day basis, how much of it is it weighted to like we want you, let it go, or how much of it is come into what we're doing and we've already planned it out and you're just part of that story? Good question. I think it it varies um by brief, but what I would say, Matt, is that um, you know, you've got to start somewhere and you've got to have a budget, and it has to be realistic. You know, my job is to make sure that the budget um is realistic for the deliverables that the client is asking for. And you know, having worked in media for 25 years, it's it's for me, it's relatively simple to see whether the client is properly vested in working with this um athlete in a relationship manner for a longer term you know value than it is just a um a transaction. Um and yeah, transactions, you know, that they're they're part of life, but you can very easily identify those clients that want to work with an athlete for the right reasons for the longer term. And those are the best relationships, you know. I think that's that's just true in in business life and in general life than uh you know a transactional side of things. Yeah, definitely. And I think obviously customers and people watching everything these days, they're they're a lot more attuned to when something isn't genuine or doesn't feel right. Like you can just tell when something's a bit off, or that person shouldn't really be in that advert. And you can you can sense why like you often see um what's it was it the the one of the American actors I always see in like random three or EE adverts? I'm like, why is he in that? He's just been paid a lot of money just to do it, it doesn't make any sense to that brand, but it's it's a wow factor, I suppose. Do you have that come to you quite a lot? And when that does come to you, because you're obviously protecting the athlete and making sure that what they're doing makes sense longer term. Do you often have to have difficult conversations around that sort of stuff and say no to brands? Um, yes, we do. We we say no, uh, you know, not all the time, but we're very strict with who we work with on behalf of our clients. Um, and some are more I guess liberal than others. Some are very, very protective of their own brand, you know, personally, and others are like, look, we've got to put food on the table. You know, you you you saw the the article last week or the the statement from Kirsty Coventry uh you know from the Olympics saying you know, athletes shouldn't be paid. Um now, I mean that's extraordinary when you're looking at sports where they're nowhere near as much as the footballers and the golfers of this world, and they're having to really you know graft and um hustle all the time. Um, and that has all sorts of impact. So um, yes, we're very protective, but also we're realistic, and you know, the these guys and girls have got to put food on the table, they've got to make some money. Um, and that's where I think the good brands are the ones that come back again and again and and and do that and are willing to support the the longer-term future of sport and the athletes in particular. And what are some of the metrics that those brands really focus on when they come back to you in terms of judging whether that relationship was successful? And what are some of the things that you that you yourself look at as a metric to say, did that work? Aside to money, uh money being exchanged. Yeah, no, I mean listen, I think that's a really good question because you would think that in today's world everyone is obsessed with you know customers and sales and um making as much money as possible. Of course, it's important, but it's that whole dynamic between sort of performance and brand marketing. If you go for the long term, the evidence is there that if you have long-term consistent advertising, your sales are going to be more consistent than the highs and lows of just performance-based. Um, and I'm lucky in that position because we work with some amazing brands over time that have really gone for the long-term relationship and they've selected um sports and talent who are purpose-driven and it fits their campaign or their particular project, and it's a proper authentic match. And that's that's where the work and the magic happens properly, and I love that. Others are, you know, they're they're unequivocal and unashamed, and and that's fair. And they go, look, we just need to drive loads of sales of this particular product or whatever it may be. And you know, if you've got um uh a talent who's got the right fit and the right audience and the right engagement, then they're happy to do that. So there is a trade-off, but I prefer the longer-term partnerships where there's that authenticity and you know, that there's all sorts of examples from around the world of you know, using a talent for the long term and seeing that consistently um build a brand and build the sales of a business. So um it's a bit of both, but I prefer the longer term option. And on the brand side, obviously you're dealing with different marketing directors, different MDs, different people coming through those companies, it's often quite hard to find that consistent thread. And often, as you know, with like marketing, uh things will change and there'll be a different agenda they'll have one month to the next month or a year to the year. So what what what do you think those brands look for for those longer-term relationships? What are they like you you often see it with obviously superstars get that kind of consistency over long periods of time, and from from my area of expertise, I suppose, with the athletics and that side, shoe deals and knowing what shoes you want to wear and working with that brand to help find that perfect pair for you to develop them with that particular athlete. That that happens quite a lot. But in other sports, boxing, you've got a few top superstars in there, Isaac Chamberlain, Savannah Marshall, like you've got like high profile boxers for them. Yes, gloves, footwear, shorts, that all matters, but it really it's about more than that. They need they need time to train, they need uh they need the capacity and the resource to be able to not work during that period because it's intense. Like that's hard. Um, and how and what what do you think the brands think about that sort of stuff? I think that if you if if they're um experienced brand marketing individuals, then you know they get it, particularly in a certain category or in a certain sort of business area. You know, I I've had a guy who's worked in in telecoms, has been one of my most loyal supporters as a client. Um, he's been around the world and around the block in terms of different sectors and categories where sport and and and athletics and and and um individuals and athletes are you know fundamental to helping him you know sell the brand and and sell the products within the brand. So there's there's people who who get it, there are there are those new people, and obviously I think it's 18 months is the average marketing director's tenure. So you're always dealing with you know new relationships, but it goes back to what will always be the case, and I'm seeing this more and more and more. You've got to meet people, you've got to get out there. You know, we're still human beings after all, and I'm sure we'll touch on AI a bit later. But you know, if you don't meet the people, how can you look the look them in the whites of their eyes and and you know, and build that trust? Um, so I think that's been that's prevalent, and marketing is a very good industry for you know, events and all sorts of things where you can get out to meet people. But um, you know, that for me, I I guess is the the important thing. You've got to have that experience, the relationship, the categories, and the and the sectors matter, but there are just some people it comes naturally to, and they're they're a real joy to work with because you just cut through the bullshit. Yeah, no, definitely. I yeah, I and when you meet people, I suppose the new age of uh athlete managers or marketing directors or that sort of stuff coming through, they'll be they'll be used to a systematic online approach. Whereas people who have been in the industry longer will know the directors at different agencies because they'll have met them, they'll spoke to them, they'll gone to that event and spent some time with them, gone gone for a meal with them, like that sort of old school Jerry Maguire style uh way of doing things is gonna be gotten more and more important right now when the whole world's turning to computers and automations and AI? Do you think that that sort of attitude uh in terms of using systems, text messages, emails rather than getting out and picking up the phone is works at a scale? Does that have a part to play in what you do in your line of work? Or do you think that the way to go is those relationships with those high-profile people in person? I think everything has a role to play, Matt, in in today's world. You've got to use all the spinning plates possible. Um, but the the most important ways to clinch a deal or to meet someone to build a relationship and a partnership is the in-person side of things, you know, at an award ceremony, at a lunch, at an event, whatever it may be, because um that's how we we're wired. Um I I think there's challenges and opportunities around this new world that we live in. Um, you know, a lot of the youngsters aren't as um what's the right way to put this? A lot of the youngsters aren't as comfortable going out and getting out, jumping on phone calls with people they haven't met and getting getting out in the social sphere. Um, but they can be trained to do that, or it's just an attitude thing. So there's there's you know, there's always people who break the rules, and I'm not, you know, it's not just the youngsters generally. There's always good people out there, and those are the ones that I enjoy talking to because they're the game changers of the future, um, as well as the more experienced marketing directors and um, you know, business owners who who get it and have been there and done it before. But that human element is absolutely crucial, and um, you know, you you see the same people at those sorts of events and things because they're the ones that want to you know look you in the whites of your eyes and find out more about what you're doing and the talent and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, definitely. No, it makes a lot of sense. And what do you think? Um, in terms of this is probably around content creation and around athletes' profiles. A lot of in the last six months the world's completely changed with the AI revolution and how good it's getting at stuff. And you often see now on social media posts being created about AI a lot easier than it than it would. Do you think over the next two to three years that's just gonna take over and everyone just expect the way the way the world to be automated posts and the athletes not do stuff? Or do you think there'll be a resurgence of real stuff that happens and there'll be more ways invented to show things are real and authentic? And if so, how would you encourage athletes who might be watching this to follow that trend? Cracking question. Wow. Um I think more um more um more and more athletes need to become more comfortable with the technology in their hand or or on their person in order to take advantage of the um the content creation world. Um, you know, it can be quite intimidating if you're not used to it, but more and more athletes are coming through and it's water off a duck's back to them. Um but you need to be because you need to grow your audience, and the more audience you have, um, agencies and brands are more likely to choose you. Um and that needs to be a fundamental part of your strategy. You know, I went um a couple of months ago to a YouTube athlete um event, you know, training event to just learn a little bit more about what they're doing, and they had some brilliant case studies up there. And it's not just it's not it's not just good enough anymore for the superstars to be doing it. If you want to make a commercial difference in your sport to yourself, I think you have to start at a very young age to understand the basics and the fundamentals, and that will put you in really good stead moving forward. So the technology's there. I think the human story will always outlast anything AI-led within reason. We did something really cool recently where um Savannah Marshall was one of the first athletes in the world to have her um her video and her photos and the AI learnt from it, and we put it into an advert without her being there at the filming. Wow, you know, so that why why did we do that? Because it was quite interesting. She really wanted to do it to prove a point and get involved in the world of AI and that innovation. Um, but you can't always be at 15 shoots at once. So if you can take that for the right sort of product, and it was selling um uh uh built, so you know, energy side of things, all protein, all nice and easy. So it's very straightforward to to um bring her um her running style and her face and everything into the advert. Um, but I also think that of course there's a room for the authenticity of that human story, and I think that will hold out for um certainly the bigger brands where there's time and money to do so. Yeah, definitely. No, and obviously with someone like Savannah Marshall, she's gonna be brought into that sort of stuff because it's on the cutting edge and she's obviously a very like hot property. So okay, I'm just gonna wrap it up with a few like quick fire questions, I suppose. Well, more of a creative question, I suppose. Would you rather have a gold medalist? And again, this is difficult for you because you're kind of like you probably have both in your roster. Would you rather have a gold medalist with? With zero audience, or a creator with millions of engaged followers, that is almost like amateur level. Um, I mean it's a really interesting one. Yeah. Um I would I'll probably have both because one is very different to the other. But if you my creative and my my heart says I would take the Olympic gold medalist with very few um followers, because I I believe in myself to do something with that. The the creator with millions is more about introducing them and finding the right briefs for them. The um the Olympic gold medalist with few followers and has a lot more work to be done, but the pride in building that momentum, that profile, that individual and their human story. Um I think there's something very, very powerful and um authentic about that. So the heart says that, but the head says you've got to put food on the table as well. Yeah, definitely. That must be quite a fun one for yourself personally to find someone who's that good at something to think, how can I make this person like put the put the food on the table and create a profile? Must be so exciting to do that. It's one of the areas I obviously from the background with athletics and growing up with it, I know that sport isn't well funded. There's only the top 0.1% that actually make anything, or unless you're running on the road running circuit where you make good money. So it's it's very hard for a long jumper who's a silver medalist to make money, really, if you're from Botswana. Like it's it's not gonna work. Um so yeah, that's a really interesting one. And another one, do you think brands overpay for fame or underpay for influence? I think the big ones overpay for fame, um, with within reason, and the uh and then it's all to play for underneath. Okay, yeah. So I think they, you know, you look at and and you know, good if you've got the money, then why wouldn't you have Ronaldo, Messi, etc., in an advert? Um, because you could afford it, right? And then it's just down to how good your negotiation skills with their agent or their that you know, their people. Um, but I I think that the world is changing so dramatically today that there's lots of opportunity out there. And there are some who want to take the opportunity without uh as much pay to see if they can take a risk on the commission and the sales. Um, that's that's a you know a growing model, or not really growing, but it's it's a model that people look at. And then there are some who just love the idea of working properly and fairly with athletes and building a relationship over the long term to help them be better versions of themselves on and off the track. Amazing. Yeah, great answer. And just one last thing. Any advice for I think I'm gonna go along the lines of a aspiring workers or people wanting to get into the field of athlete management and something you would give to a younger version of yourself. Actually, difficult because you worked in different fields before getting to this point, but if for a potential employee for yourself, advice that they should do right now, what are the things that they should be working on to be able to be noticed and get in this field? Well, it's that's a great question, and we get lots of inquiries every every week, every month from youngsters trying to get into sport. You've got to have a serious passion for it. It's no good just saying, I want to get into sport, and then your CV, you know, doesn't really prove that case. So you've got to have a passion for it, you've got to be motivated for it, you've got to know sport inside out. Um, and the rest will follow. You know, the business skills and acumen of that are more an attitude than anything else. But if you don't have a passion for your subject, in any, you know, I've I've hired lots of people over the years in in media, in advertising, in marketing, in in my business, if you don't have a proper passion for it, um, one, you'll get found out in the interview, and if you're lucky enough to get hired, you'll get found out very quickly after that. Um, and you know, more for the person, you know, doing the hiring, I guess. But that passion for your subject matter, um, you know, you can see it in all walks of life, Matt. And if you don't have it in sport, which is for me the ultimate passion area, then you know, you're probably in it for the wrong reasons. Yeah. Definitely. I agree. Great. Thank you so much for giving me your time there, and I really enjoyed that chat. Brilliant, Matt. Thanks ever so much for inviting me.