Scaling Mortgage Production, Strategic Referral Partners, and Building Repeatable Business with Connor Bartley

On today’s show Skip interviews Connor Bartley, National Recruiting Manager at Lower Mortgage and host of The Lowdown Mortgage podcast, about what separates top mortgage loan officers from average producers and how to scale beyond personal capacity. Connor outlines three common traits of top performers: making strategic hires for leverage, forming strategic referral partnerships instead of relying on coffee-and-lunch “rented relationships,” and operating under an economic model that enables real-time business decisions. 

They discuss the mindset shift from originator to business owner, the humility required to delegate, and creating consistent, repeatable processes that build Realtor confidence. Connor shares a free diagnostic tool to quantify time and money lost to admin work, identify the next best hire, and determine growth stage based on goals. 

#mortgage #loanofficer #mortgagebroker #mortgagetips #mortgageindustry #realtorpartners #referralpartners #leadgeneration #databasemarketing #crm #mortgagemarketing #personalbrand #socialmediamarketing #loanofficertraining #salestraining #scalingbusiness #teambuilding #delegation #businessowner #topproducer #mortgagepodcast #realestatepodcast #financialplanner #cpas #lower

Episode Highlights:

00:00 Welcome and Intro

00:26 Connor Background and Mission

02:56 Three Keys to Scaling

05:46 Delegation and Repeatable Process

09:19 Diagnostic Tool for Hiring

13:46 Strategic Referral Partnerships

16:40 Articulating Your Value

19:38 Stay Go or Get to Work

24:20 Marketing and Personal Brand

26:28 Outgrowing Leadership

27:59 Wrap Up and Spurs Talk

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Yeah, that's right. We're back, and this ain't my first mortgage podcast. Welcome to the show where we discuss all things mortgage sales, industry news, interviews of the top mortgage professionals, and more. Strap on in, enjoy the ride, and welcome to Ain't My First Mortgage Podcast. Connor, welcome to Ain't My First Mortgage Podcast, man. This is your first appearance on this show, but you are a friend of my podcast efforts over the years. So welcome to this one.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Hey, happy to be here, Skip. I really appreciate the opportunity to come on and just, you know, have a conversation. That's what it's all about. So I'm looking forward to the talk, man.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Well, I love it. I love it. So for those of y'all who are listening and or watching, you know, if y'all don't know who Connor is, I'm gonna let him take a second, introduce himself. So go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Yeah, so I appreciate that. So I am the national recruiting manager over at Lower Mortgage. I've been, you know, in the mortgage industry now going on 11 or 12 years. Somewhere along the way, I lost count. But but you know, I have really dedicated some time here over the last two or three years to really getting to know the top 10% of this industry really well. I think it can get really lonely at the top for producers as they continue to grow. There's less people like them doing the kind of volume that they're doing that they can bounce ideas off of and get you know advice from. And this industry is really good at helping people get from zero to three, three to six, six to ten loans, but getting from 10 to 20 seems to be a big gray area out there. And the more you talk to people, the more you start to see where there are patterns that develop within the top producers that even the top 10 to 5% aren't doing. And and so that's been a really fun journey and you know a great time for me just to get to know that demographic of our industry because there are a lot of things that people maybe are reluctant to do or hold themselves back from doing that could really unlock their business in a big way.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Yeah, no, I love that. And you know, it's funny because I did an episode earlier this year with Laura Whitty, who's a producer in Georgia, she's a top producing woman in the state. And she and I sat down and talked about hey, you know what? We a lot of times we focus on how do you get to be, you know, the hundred million dollar plus producer, but we don't talk about what's necessary for the previous however many steps it takes to get there. And those are some big jumps, and a lot of times they require obviously the same fundamentals, but they require some nuanced changes and adaptations. So before we kind of dive into some other stuff, if you would, because I know on your podcast, and guys, I'm not gonna even make any bones about it, the lowdown, you gotta listen to it. It's awesome. Connor does a fantastic job. And uh, you know, you cover a lot of this with top producers that are on your show and other industry folks as well. But one of the say, I'm gonna put you on the spot. What would you say are the top three things that all those folks that you just mentioned that they have in common?

SPEAKER_02 3:22

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, uh, I'm gonna backtrack a little bit. The skills that build your production are not the same skills that will scale it. Correct. And that's what I think a lot of people don't understand. They want to continue building production, and at some point you reach personal capacity where you can't continue adding it starts to work against you. The more loans you put in the funnel, the less life you have.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Yeah, you've got diminishing marginal returns.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

I mean, you do. Exactly. And so the three things that I feel originators need one is you know, strategic hire, build your team, find out who's gonna be the next best person to give you more leverage in your business. I think you need on the subject of leverage in your relationships, being more strategic about how you partner with realtors and financial planners and whomever, but really having an understanding that this is a business partnership and not having to, you know, continuously go on the treadmill of coffee meetings and lunches and hoping to get that next, you know, prove it deal six months down the road, instead, really getting into very strategic relationships where you're both helping each other build business together. And then three, I think is economics, you know, getting into an economic model that allows you to run it like you own it and have the ability to make decisions in your market to your business, you know, with in real time, right? Without the red tape of asking permission or having to get someone to sign off on it, but really having the economic model that allows you to make those decisions and also earn the most you can, right? And so at the end of the day, it's really about evolving from an originator to a business owner and just that mindset change that happens along the way.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Yeah, yeah, 100%. And it's funny because I and in my world, you know, in training now, I work with folks who are still trying to build their business. And when I say still trying to build, I don't just mean just starting out. I mean, it can be, hey, I've been closing a million and I want to go up to three or five or whatever else. And I work with top producers, everything that's a very different skill set, obviously. But this popped in my head while you were talking about this. So many people try and behave like a top producer, and they don't have that base down yet. You gotta walk before you can run. And so I'm kind of curious how often do you see that? Where LOs, it's like, hey, they're trying to do all the things that they see the big dogs doing, right? And but they lack the necessary fundamental and foundational skill sets, habits, and frankly, experience too, to really start down that road. You know, do you see that happen pretty often?

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Yeah, and I think one of the things that they lack that you didn't mention is, and I don't want this to come off as a slight, but there's a humility factor that's that plays into that, where they've got to let go of parts of the business and delegate to others and uh allow someone else to own that part of the process. And that's where you really start to see that friction set in for someone who's trying to go from 25 to 50 or 30 to 60. It's it's not necessarily that they can't do it. The talent is there, the effort is there, all of the things are there. It's not a work ethic problem. Right. It's not a work ethic problem, it's not a talent. It's just it's a a will, and are they willing to let someone else take over this part or that part of the process? And I know there will be times where you might get burned, where you make a hire and it doesn't work out well, and and then you feel like you've got to jump back in, do it yourself. I'll call out a book here real quick, skip EMyth Revisited by Michael Gerber, talks a lot about like managing by abdication, where you know that's exactly what happens in kind of the entrepreneurial world is that the business owner will make that first hire, they'll let that person kind of own different parts of the process until they make a mistake. And when a mistake is made, then they completely distrust someone doing that ever again. They jump right back in and take care of it all on their own, all by themselves, and it just continues to put a load on their shoulders. And so, you know, the one of the biggest challenges that I see people make when they're trying to kind of put on their top producer, you know, pants, right? And get out there into the world. It's like that's it. Yeah, they just haven't quite given up that those parts of the process yet. And you know, you really do need to have a team in place, a process in place, something that is going to give confidence to the agent that you are the person that can give a repeatable process. Yeah, you know, we don't think about like McDonald's as a fancy restaurant, but at the end of the day, if you go to McDonald's and you get a McGriddle, you know exactly what it's gonna taste like because it's good to go, right? Yeah, it's consistent every single time. And so what the agent is looking for is a consistent process that's gonna make them look good, right? And when you can create something like that within your team, now you're acting like a top producer. Now you're bringing something to the table that's gonna give them confidence that they'll earn a paycheck just by working with you, versus you know, someone who might be coming in, engaging on social and being really nice and bringing off donuts and whatever, you know, the whole nine. But like at the end of the day, can we count on them every single time to get it done? Yeah. And and do they have a process that gives us confidence in that?

SPEAKER_00 9:12

So there are three big things there that I want to talk about. One is, you know, you said you talked about building your team and what whatever that looks like if you're going from just you to adding an LOA or a processor or whatever, growing out, you know, or a junior LO, whatever you want to do it, right? I think that is something that a lot of people struggle with. And I know that, I mean, I know throughout your experience, you developed some ways to help folks say, hey, look, this is the money you're leaving on the table, right? So before I mention the other two things, do you want to talk about that real quick?

SPEAKER_02 9:45

Oh, sure, yeah. And I appreciate the opportunity to mention it. So, you know, you mentioned the low-down mortgage podcast. It's something I started doing about two years ago after listening to 100 mortgage podcasts in a hundred days to really kind of you know as a signal of respect. Yeah, actually, one one or two at least. But, you know, I I wanted to do that as a sign of respect to the originators that I was communicating with to say, hey, not only do I call as a recruiter, but I'm someone who's really studied your industry and really, you know, put forth some effort to try to understand the culture of it and bring some true value to you. And, you know, after doing that, which was a really fun process, but it was over. Like you can't do 200 podcasts in 200 days, right? Now you start getting a little annoying out there, sir. And you run out of podcasts to listen to, quite frankly. But so I started hosting my own, and you know, I've had some great guests on the show. We've done over 130 episodes, getting close to 150 at this point. And you know, I've been able to, you know, take that research and the information that I've gathered from that and really dissect the patterns that I've seen among producers that have allowed them to go from you know, point A of being just an originator to point E, which would be, you know, being a business owner, and then everything in between where you know, kind of on your own, and then you start making your first hire, and then you start thinking like a business owner, and so on and so forth. And I created this diagnostic tool where it takes you through three different surveys, essentially. The first is to identify how much time and money you're losing as an originator by doing administrative and operational tasks that someone who you could pay $25 an hour could do for you. If you're worth $120 an hour, $160 an hour, shouldn't you pay someone $25 an hour to do the things that keep you from making another $120 an hour? I think the trade-off is pretty good there. And so that's step one. Once you identify what your hour and your time is worth and how much of it you're wasting on things that someone else could do for you for cheaper, let's find out who that person is. Let's take a look at what you what you don't enjoy doing about the job, what you wish someone else could do for you, where your business breaks down when you get busy, and what you ultimately want to achieve long term, whether it's build more relationships, start building a team of other loan officers, or just increase conversion or some mix of all three. But let's identify who's going to be the right next hire for you to gain the most leverage in your business right now. It'll provide you with a job description that you could post tomorrow of that particular role with salary and all those things. And then the final step is what stage of growth are you in? And that survey starts with the most important question of all of them, which is what do you want to get out of this business? Yeah. You know, do you want to get more time and balance with your family? Do you want to maximize your income? Are you looking to build a legacy for, you know, family who might be coming up behind you or for someone else, you know, train some other people to really kind of take on, you know, what you've built and continue it on forward and really identify where you are in terms of that process of growth and then what steps you need to take next in order to get to the next stage of growth. And so that's at lowdownmortgage community dot com slash diagnostic. That's low downmortgegommunity.com slash diagnostic and fill it out. It's free to take you, I don't know, five to seven minutes. You can do it laying in bed. But uh, but it's something that you know I thought would be a great tool for originators to take a look at and really gain some clarity on what next steps they could do, not on my opinion, but based off of the data that I've gathered from people who've already been through that process and have done it. And you know, real loan officers doing real production and have gone through these real problems. So yeah, if anyone's listening, go check it out.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Damn, I hope someone's listening. I mean, that's what I'm doing. Um but no, I mean that's exactly what I want you to go into because it's so hard to quantify the qualifiables so so often. And doing something like that intentionally helps make that helps make that possible. And so it's really connecting, you know, people's why with the how. And I think that's a really cool thing. Okay, so backing up a minute, you mentioned something that that really kind of resounded with me, and that was the strategic partnership piece. Now, it's interesting you say that because one of the key things I work on my clients with, whether they're literally you know, just starting out or been in the business for a thousand years, which with the average age of the mortgage folks is not a stretch. So, but is to or excuse me, it's helping to identify the ideal referral partner. And we do that by completing an ideal referral partner profile. And you know, and so this again, it takes things like, well, I want to work with somebody who has good, you know, who has good work ethic, good communication. No, no, no, we're not that's important, but that's not what so we do this twofold. One is we look at past production and then we look at future goals, and we try and marry the two together. And then all of a sudden we have a workable list of referral partners. I don't care what type of referral partner it is, you know, the classic realtors, financial planners, CPU, it doesn't matter. And again, this you know, it's not an exclusive list. That's not the point. The point is to say, hey, I've got to focus my time on what's gonna give me the highest margin. This is a way to go about doing that, right? And I think that's really important because, yeah, like you said, I mean, the effort, the constant, the constant lunches, coffees, that's fine if you're just starting out building, but at some point, and sooner than most people think, that's gonna have to stop. You're gonna have to be able to get a rented relationship, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

You know, you're living one loan at a time, and in our industry, the phrase that you hear over and over again is you're only as good as your last loan, right? And I mean, if you want to put yourself into that situation with 25 to 50 realtors across your market, be my guest, but that's kind of living on an edge for a long time. Now you could do a great job, but you know, say something happens with a file that wasn't your fault, but next, you know, next thing you know, you get the blame, right? Maybe a borrower missed uh a document or they came late with something. You know, there's a whole slew of things that can go wrong in a mortgage transaction. And, you know, but somebody just recently walked into their office with a box of donuts, and so now they're onto that relationship next, right? And so what you need to find, yeah, are where your goals align for the future. You don't want to put yourself into you know a lot of relationships where people aren't really in it for the same things that you're in it for. And when you want to do something big, you want to do business with others that want to do something big, because then you can like you can go big together, and nothing's more fun than that, right? Like just seeing each other accomplish something really cool. So I think that's a great call out and a good thing to look definitely look for in you know those partnerships.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Yeah. So it kind of attached to that, sort of. Yeah, something else you mentioned about being able to say, hey, look, you know, are you gonna be the guy that just brings donuts to everybody, or are you gonna actually have value to someone? And of course, through you know, the term value gets thrown around like you know, nothing. So it's super overused. But what I find is that a lot of LO's struggle, even I mean, I even brokers, frankly, who own their own business, sometimes they struggle to articulate value beyond the nuts and bolts, right? Beyond the shiny new product or fast turn times. They struggle with that. And I think articulating it is something that we've got to be able to do, whether you are, again, low lower producing or higher producing. It doesn't matter. And also, and I'm gonna I'm kind of curious about your take on this. You know, whenever I do work with high with high-producing LOs, one of the things that we typically do, obviously we don't do an overhaul business, that's dumb, but we usually tweak a couple little things, right? And so I found a lot of times that they have lost, not lost sign of, but they have stopped getting what makes them special out there, right? And so if they want to grow and you know, that's one of the things like, hey, I don't think people are forgotten, but there's more people out there that need to know. And so you've got to be able to articulate that value. So I don't know. What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_02 18:39

Well, I think people struggle with that because they get uncomfortable talking about themselves all the time.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

It's ironic, we love talking about ourselves as long as it's not like having to really examine ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

Yeah, you know, I mean, the reality is it's like, you know, when you go into like social media, for example, and you want to post about a closing or your great month from last month and things like that. Like, I know some people get they feel like they they kind of cringe up a little bit because they don't want to be that person that's like braggadocious, but what they forget is that most people don't see those posts anyway, right? And so, so you do really have to kind of bring it to the front of their mind uh often. And there's a right way of doing it and a wrong way of doing it. That's a probably a whole other conversation, but I do think people struggle with that because they they feel like they've said it before, they don't want to have to say it again. And I don't know, that at the heart of it, they're just humble people that don't want to continuously you know beat their chest and come off as like you know, some conceited jerk.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

No, it's a hundred percent. But you know, I think that there's another side to it where they also they a lot of times they overlook and underscore what's like what they consider to be second nature, you know. Sure, yes, absolutely. It's you know it's drawing that out. So, all right. I got one, I got a fun extra. Well, at least I hope it'll be fun. Yeah, I've got an exercise that we're gonna try and do here. First time I've ever done this. All right. So bear with me. And guys listening and watching, hey, you know what? This may be awesome, it may crash and burn. I have no idea. We're gonna find out though, okay? So, I mean, the fact is, man, you talk to more LOs than almost anybody I know, okay. Some of those guys and girls need a better company, some of them need a better business plan, and some just need to, you know, pick up the phone and start working, right? And so, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna read off a few scenarios, and I want you to decide whether they should stay, go, or they just need to get to work. Sure. All right. Sounds good to me. All right, let's try this out. Let's try it out. All right, number one. Or so it'd help if I pulled them up because I had to type them out first. There we go. An LO says the company's technology is holding them back, but they have not contacted their database in six months. Stay, go, or get to work.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Well, that seems like a get-to-work scenario for sure.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

It doesn't do it, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 21:07

You know, I think you know, maybe having a conversation to better understand the CRM, if that's a problem, you know, get whatever information they need to know what the tool offers and is available to them if there is even a tool or if it's just you know kind of a freestanding spreadsheet that they've kept over the years and they're an expensive CRM. Yeah, but but you know, I mean, keep it simple, but stay top of mind. I mean, that's a very solvable solution that you don't have to go through the pain of making a change to to fix. Now, if there are other things at play there, then that's a you know, that expands on the conversation. But if that's all it is, just start calling your database.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Yeah, get to work. All right. And LO is producing consistently, but keeps losing self employed bars because he feels the company lacks the right products. Stay, go. Get to work.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Well, first thing, I mean, you're gonna get a pattern here with me more than likely skip. First thing you gotta do is talk to your company. Like find out if there's a product you don't know about. You know, go to your products team, go to your leadership. Let's find out if there's an alternative that you just haven't tried yet. I talk to a lot of people who just aren't aware that their company offered something and then make a change to go get a product that they already had and and just didn't know it. And so first things first, talk with your company. Second, you know, determine if that's an overlay that your company's putting on that product, that that you could sidestep by going somewhere else that doesn't have the same overlay. But you know, you'll it may sound odd coming from a guy who recruits people for a living, but like my my default setting is stay where you are every time, just because I think you know, to make a move, it really should be for transformational change and not just transactional change. And you know, if if you're not going, if you're just leaving for a lateral move, you know, you're probably just gonna be disappointed again in the future. So so make sure that you can work with what you've got before you kind of go through all that and make sure the change you're gonna take is gonna be, you know, a big meaningful one.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

Yeah, yeah, I like it. So I did kind of expect those answers from you, which I appreciate. Because you know, let's be honest, most people's lives and situations are not black and white, right? But that that said, I'm still trying to assign black and white to these questions. So let's go with okay, two more, two more. And LO has been unhappy for 18 months, but keeps saying, I'm gonna stay put until the market gets better. What do you tell them?

SPEAKER_02 23:45

Yeah. You know, I might tell them about the dog that was crying on the porch until one day they were gone. And you know, there's a joke out there, right? There's a bus stop every day, there's a dog on the porch, it moans and groans all the time, and then one day they come to the bus stop and they say, Where's the dog? And there's always somebody sitting in a rocking chair on the porch, and they say, Well, finally got tired of sitting on that nail and got up and left, right? And you know, and I think if you're just you know, sometimes a change of scenery can be the inspirational move that you need to get back on track, right? Like there's a moment within that where you really do have to take a good hard look in the mirror and ask yourself, Am I the problem? And and if you're not, if you can congenuinely say you're not and you're honest with yourself about it, and you can identify what is really causing all those challenges, then sometimes you just got to get out of the situation.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Okay. All right, very good. So an LO says they need better marketing support, but they have never posted a single video in an article or built any kind of recognizable personal brand. Isn't that the real problem? Marketing support, or do they just need to get to work?

SPEAKER_02 24:59

Well, they need to get to work, but they also need to know what kind of marketer they're they are. You know, I don't think social media is for everyone. Right. If you're really bad at it and then you do a lot of it, it's not doing you any delete on your strings.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

That's uh, you know, I still think you that need to be out there, but you don't have to make then you're you're still a focus.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

Yeah, and so like you've got to find what's the marketing you want to do, and then you know, explore that and see if you can. But yeah, I think you know, as far as marketing goes, that's a given. We all need to be doing some form of it, whether it's you know, you have a Google business page and make sure you get reviews so that your reviews help you populate higher up and that you get onto AI search and you go down that path, or you want to be, you know, out front and center on social media and be an educator and someone that you know leans on on something like that. Or are you just gonna like market through engagement and find the agents and the realtors that are you know posting content and get out there and just engage? Like you don't have to post yourself to be active on social media, social media, so a lot of different ways to do it. Yeah, yeah, or you can just hand out coffee at the school drop-off line with a business card, right? Like, there's a million things you can do clean into your strengths that could open up exactly.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Lean to your strengths, but you know what? I would contend on that particular one that either that last part or built a recognizable personal you know, personal brand. That doesn't have to be a social media brand. It can be, hey, you're known as the guy who does of any of the things that you just mentioned. So if you're not doing anything like that, then yeah, I think you're probably the problem, not the marketing team. So yeah. All right, all right. So okay, I said I said that's gonna be two. I lied. I'm gonna do one more because this one just kind of yeah, you know, she's kind of stood out to me. Top producer's making plenty of money, but has clearly outgrown the leadership around them. Is that reason enough to leave?

SPEAKER_02 26:58

Uh well, I mean, is if they're not going to get an opportunity to achieve the goals that they want to achieve, yeah. You know, if the goal is just to make as much money as possible and no one's doing anything, you know, bothering them and they're able to do that, great. If but there's a caveat to that, which is if no one can add to you in a way that's going to help you achieve as much as possible, then you need to get into a better room and get into a place where you're going to be challenged. Like you hear people, smart people say this all the time, right? You never want to be the smartest person in the room. And and I think when you get to that place, if there's no one else that's going to push you, challenge you, you know, get more out of you. I mean, people who, as you put it, are making plenty of money are talented people, right? Like they've got something about them that's got them to a place where they're financially stable and comfortable. So I would say, you know, get to a place where someone's gonna push you to do more than you ever thought you could. I love it. I love it, man.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Okay, so all right, I enjoyed that. I hope you did. I'll put you on the spot a little bit. But you know, the bigger takeaway from that is that the world we live in is gray, right? There are there are no easy yes and no answers to this. So all right, man. We are at the end of our time together for today. In case anybody wants to get in touch with you, where should they go? What should they do?

SPEAKER_02 28:27

They could find me on you know LinkedIn or Facebook for sure. I'm on Instagram, but not really. Uh and then if you want to subscribe to the weekly newsletter, you know, it's lowdown mortgage community dot com slash subscribe. It's weekly content just on you know, building a bigger business and designing it, you know, for scalability. And again, just kind of piggybacks off of the topics and patterns that I've seen with top producers across the country. So, you know, they can find me there too.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Perfect. I love and guys, yeah, Connor is a great follow-up, so yeah, still him out. And uh, you know, if you are looking to make a change for whatever reason, I'm sure he'll be happy to talk to you. So one more thing. I'm sorry about your Spurs, by the way. I knew it was gonna come up. I knew it was gonna come up. I couldn't let it go. I mean, I mean, it's not like I'm a Knicks fan or anything, but you know, obviously I've known you for a few years now. I know how big of a Spurs guy you are, and of course, if you're watching this on YouTube, you can see the Spurs stuff behind him. But hey, you know what? There's always next year.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

Absolutely, man. I think we're I think we're odds-on favorites right now. These young guys still have to develop. You know, we took a leap last year that no one expected. Yeah, and that's no excuse. We still should have won. We led for 73% of the finals and could never close the deal. So, but we've got a you know, a veteran and Tobias Harris now who came on, you know. So some new vet leadership on the team, somebody you can get, you know, a bucket in the post. And and then, you know, Wimby, Castle, and Harper are all one one year older.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

So all right, there you go. All right, bro. Listen, I appreciate everything. Thank you so much for the conversation today, man. Absolutely, Skip. I appreciate you having me.