Ep. #8: Creating a Brand with Intention (ft. John Hatcher of The Hatcher Group)

In this episode of Keller Williams Realty Maine's Beyond the Sale, Kevin Fletcher discuss with John Hatcher, owner of The Hatcher Group, the art of branding and running a business with intention and what can be achieved by treating your real estate license like a high-level corporation.

John shares that intentional marketing and financial responsibility aren't just "nice to haves"—they are the essential tools that allow you to step away from the business and actually enjoy the life you’re working so hard to fund.

What We'll Tackle:

• Marketing Beyond the Logo: Why true branding is about consistency and reputation, and how to build a presence that speaks for you before you even enter the room.
• The Professional Pivot: Breaking the "hobbyist" habit and adopting the rigorous standards, schedules, and mindsets of a career executive.
• The Discipline of Responsibility: A look at the operational "must-dos" that keep a business healthy, scalable, and—most importantly—profitable.
• Designing for Distance: How to run your business with enough intentionality that it stops demanding 100% of your time, giving you the freedom to focus on what matters most outside the office.

Success isn't about working more hours; it's about making the hours you work more intentional. Tune in to learn how to build a business that serves your life Beyond real estate.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You're listening to KW Means Beyond the Tale.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

All right, everybody, we're here today with John Hatcher. Uh John is the CEO of the Hatcher Group, uh, based out of Portland, Maine, in Orlando, Florida. Uh John, welcome.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Um, super excited to have you here. I think um, you know, you and I were talking a little bit off-screen about uh off off camera before we started uh your journey to get here, and and I didn't realize it was 40 years.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

December 26th, I've been licensed 40 years.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

So you started at 12. That's wonderful. Um so tell me, you know, I I I I listened to a podcast yesterday and and it was interesting. Like nobody ever really starts out, certainly when we got licensed uh in this industry, nobody ever really starts out saying, hey, when I grow up, I want to be a real estate agent. Um it wasn't an opportunity inside of high school, and our guidance counselors were like, Boy, you'd be really great at sales. How do you stumble into real estate?

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Well, Kevin, is I was going to be the next Frank Lloyd Wright when I graduated from high school, and I had been accepted at Northeastern University in Boston and Wentworth for architecture. So I was my future was going to be architecture. I did study architecture in high school, I got awards for architecture in high school, and then um it was interesting. A friend of the family who was a very well-known architect in the Portland area said to me, Well, you know, John, if you want to do houses, if you don't want to do strip shopping centers, if you don't want to do commercial buildings, if you want to do single-family homes and nice high-end homes, then you're gonna have to go to Connecticut or Florida or Georgia, somewhere other than Maine, because we do not have residential architects here. So I'm thinking, well, let me rethink this. So I ended up going to the University of Southern Maine and I uh business was my major, and interestingly I had elective courses, they had three real estate courses, the um practice, law, and um appraisal, that by doing all three of those courses over three semester period, um I thought, you know, I really like real estate. I actually uh my first uh semester break, my father died uh and uh when I was 18 years old and left me a couple of dollars and I ended up buying an eight-unit apartment building. So at 18 buying an eight-unit, that was a little aggressive.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

However, I just always did like real estate, never thinking I'd be selling it, buying it, yes, designing it, building it, yes. So I ended up uh taking those three courses over the first three semesters, and I thought, boy, this is really interesting, and I'll put that in my hip pocket. So if I decide to go into architecture, then I'll still have that to fall back on. But I also wanted to learn more about real estate. So, and at the college level, it was terrific. So then my brother and I got into a nightclub business, restaurant business in Portland that was very successful, and I realized I was very pleased that I got the restaurant nightclub business out of my system when I was in my early 20s because it's like one of the worst businesses to be in. It can be great, but for me, it was not. Did not like the business. Um, I like putting it together, building it, but then running it, did not like it. So then I thought, well, uh, and I also had been part of a family business. My mother owned bath boutiques at different malls around, and then a store in the old port here in Portland. And I was very much involved with the business because I had my business background. So then she wanted to retire, so we ended up selling the stores, and then I said, What am I going to do? Got out of the nightclub restaurant business, so I thought, well, let me get my license. So you still had the eight unit? I still had the eight unit. And then I decided that that was I'm going to try it. And I thought, you know, I like people, I like sales, and that was where it all started. So I feel very fortunate that unlike anybody today, my first license and only license in the business was a broker's license. Because at the time, if you had the three courses that were university credits, then I could just apply for my broker's license. So that was my first and early license. Yep. Yeah, that was December 26, 19 uh 85.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

But you didn't open your own company.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Did not open my own company. I felt that I didn't know anything about it. And I I uh interviewed with a few people, and they said, Oh, yes, I can you we'll find a desk here. You can sit in the desk over there, and we'll give you a phone book, and you can just start calling people. And I thought, well, what is that going to do for me? And I had nothing, um, you know, no, no support. And then I did end up uh meeting with um Sue Balfour, uh, who was Scott Balfour's sister, who was part of the KW commercial, that uh she and she you know took me under her wing, and as it turns out, the training at the time was so different than what we see today. And of course, this was before computers, before cell phones, before fax machines. And we'd we did MLS books, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:26

So I I was telling everybody when I got licensed, it was MLS books.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

Right. We had uh it looked like uh what used to look like the yellow pages, which we no longer have, the phone books. So we had a publication every two weeks that we'd open up and just terrible photos of grainy black and white photos of properties.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

So it and you couldn't give them out, and you could not give them out. You couldn't give them out. You get fined if you gave them out.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

Hand slapped fined.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

You weren't even supposed to photocopy them technically.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Exactly. So it was really challenging back then. However, at the time, Century 21, which was a very large franchise and Sioux specifically, there was a training session that basically, if you signed on to the company, you had to commit to two months of five days a week from seven in the morning till nine, you had to uh go to class, and they did have modules, nothing like we have today, but modules. So I did I was like the you know the the the brown nose in the class. I did everything I was told, and the other thing, which uh is it's amazing how it just does not happen today, to my knowledge, is we were supposed to preview five properties a day. So from nine to noon, we're supposed to make appointments and preview so we would know the inventory. Now, part of the difference between then and now is back then when we had that book that was you know the grainy black and white photos, we had no idea what the interior of that house looked like. Now, also did not always know the neighborhoods, so we would drive out and we would a group of us would go and we're caravan and we'd go to all these houses so we could see the interior.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

And you all represented the seller. This was before buyer agency, right? Exactly. So everybody represented the seller, right? Buyer agency was non-existent.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Exactly. So the purchase and sale agreement, uh, one of the contingencies which purchase and sale agreements were uh NCR paper, no computer generated, and you know, press hard, you know, cheap coffee. So we would end up um we would preview and be able to know, and then we would then you know call clients and say, I just went through this house, and then be able to describe it to them. So then uh all of a sudden, what with the evolution is I mean, fast forwarding when MLS first started doing the um you know online photos, we had eight photos. Well, and a lot of the photos we took in with our phones, uh it and before we had good phones, um, and uh that it was not good digital photography, so they were awful photos then. So now fast forwarding with all the technology we have, uh it's just there's been a huge evolution.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

I can remember uh when I first, you know, first listings I ever got, I had to go, you know, buy a camera, and there was still film, and then you brought it to Write 8 and you developed the the photos and then you sent them in. And you talk about like uh you know, you put a property on the market now and you get offers in 24 hours, it might have slowed down a little bit, but you know, you get it you used to take a week to get the photos up in the MLS, and uh just the technology's been a uh certainly an evolution.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Right. We we would have the dot matrix computer in the offers on the office, so we'd print off the hot sheet every day and you'd hear it grinding out all the new listings, and uh there was no what there were searching uh c capabilities, but it was just very difficult. So in the end, every two weeks when the the MLS books were delivered to the office, everybody would pounce on them and flip through page by page, and ooh uh, and again, the just the sense of urgency was not there as it is today.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

You and I were talking also about when we first got started, it was okay, there's a conference room, there's a desk, there's a phone book, call me if you need me. We talk about the training aspect of it. Um you know, the training has certainly come a long way, as has technology, and we'll certainly continue on that. Um but looking back at the the training, we're fortunately, very fortunate now with all the training we have. I still think that there are people that are lacking in some of their training capabilities. Um what are some of the bigger bigger lessons that you've learned in your training, you know, that you saw from early on through to that Century 21 training platform or now?

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Well, once again, I was committed from day one. I took this serious as a job. It was not going to be, well, let me see how this works out. I just knew that this was going to be my career and I was going to give it five years to see if I could do anything with it, and I was committed to it. So, and had struggles. I mean, it it was not easy, and it was not a matter of just picking up the phone and people saying, sure, come and list my house, or sure, I'll buy a house from you. So it has been you know constant from day one. The one thing that has not changed is the uh the networking and calling people and picking up the phone and databases, and of course, back in the day, my database was in uh uh index cards and a file, and I would flip through them, and then I had a system, and so every 30 to 45 days I would just keep going through my index cards and uh did not have my phone to flip through index cards and call people and ask them for business. And so the the training was very basic, however, it was all about personal relationships with people because you know selling real estate when you understand the fundamentals is not hard.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

No.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

What is hard is trying to uh understand all of the uh relationships between you know family members that are buying something or selling something. Um we have to figure out you know what is the motivation, and that's always been the same that it is today. We still have the same thing. We're dealing with humans, we're using um we're using technology that we didn't have, and and the one of the things that is different today is that the buyers and sellers have so much more access to technology. So we I run into people now that feel like they know way more about real estate in the real estate market than me. And back back then, 40 years ago, I think people leaned on us a little bit differently because this this uh book that was published every two weeks, it was it was our our you know uh commodity that nobody else could have. But going back to the training with all this is that we just constantly have been trained and should be constantly trained, is about building relationships with the people. And yes, you can do um multiple listing searches, you can do you know, send things out through DocuSign today that we didn't have. We used to also today with lockboxes, we used to run around to offices and pick up keys and they'd be like, Well, your showing is at noon, we have a showing at three, so you're gonna have to bring the key back by two o'clock so the next broker can come in. So just that all of the the ease of showing properties today has changed uh enormously. And again, going back to your question about training, is we just have so many more resources today and so many more ways to learn about um you know the technology and what technology we need to use today uh that never existed when I first got into the business or when we first got into the business.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

I think what's interesting is you talk about commitment, and I I think the commitment to the industry, the commitment to the profession certainly is one of the things that can catapult the as a as a differential between success and not having success in this business. Um you and I both seen it, agents that are, you know, hey, I want to try this. You know, I think this would be a good second job, I think this would be a good part-time role, and I think there's that commitment to the profession uh is certainly a necessity. And I agree that training has uh evolutionized and morphed over the course of time, but what was really interesting is uh takeaway what you just said, you know, 30 or 40 years ago we were the catalyst of the information, and being the catalyst of the information caused us to have a role inside of the transaction. The information is still there, and now far more prevalent to the vast majority of people through our phones and through the network of information that they have, and yet we're still the catalyst of the information, we're still the catalyst in the transaction, and I think that's the human connection that's never gonna go away. People still want advice on how to do things. Absolutely, and it is that relationship, and and so when we look at this and say the commitment with the connections creates the catalyst to the profession.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

And the commitment and so I take this uh as I look at it still as a job. I mean it's a it's a profession profession, a career, a career that I love. And I'll never forget back in the day of Century 21, we had gold coats. And I have, as you know, I work out uh still work out every day of it's been part of my life, uh working out mornings, either five or six o'clock in the morning, um, going to the gym uh and such. I'll never forget going to the uh gym and then every day putting on my gold coat and with my name tag at the gym, people knew exactly what I did. And not an undercover agent, it's like people knew, oh, there's John Hatcher, he's century 21, he's got his gold coat on today, and I'll never forget uh within within a year's time of wearing that every day. I had three transactions just from the gym from people saying, Oh, you're the real estate guy. Yeah, so and then I used to wear it to the grocery store, I wore it out, uh and people just recognize that. So the branding part, and just like people that wear branded uh you know clothing today, it's like don't be an undercover agent, let people know what you do.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Yeah, I bought my uh my um ERA blue blazer at Sears.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Right? Absolutely. Because I started an ERA right, right, and people knew exactly what you did. Yeah. So so it so the the training, again, a lot of times I find it very interesting that we as when once you're licensed and have to have 21 credit hours every two years, and people's licenses are coming up for renewal, and they're like, I've got to scramble, I've got to go online, I've got to get you know 12 credit hours. And it's it's mind-blowing to me because to me, I am learning based. I always want to any new class that comes out. Now there's certain things, classes about vernal pools that I don't deal with on a regular basis. I don't want to sit through that class, but I do. I do. I want to know enough so that if if I have to deal with something like that, I've heard it and then I know the resources to go to. And you know, all these classes that uh some of them septic design and lead paint and all these things that we have to know, and everything that we uh work with every day on our disclosures, I want to know more about it. And then there are some uh classes that I think, oh, do I really want to take that class again? I always am there to try to learn more. So again, always staying learning based.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

So you you've you know you you're in the career, you started a Century 21, or you started somewhere, presumably, then you ended up a C21, dove into the training, started building your career. Um early on, and I I I don't know if I've ever told you this, um, but when I first heard the name John Hatcher, you had a brand. You remember what the brand was? Well, it is it's it still exists, right? It's a household name. It's a household name. And I just was amazed. Like I that I was blown away at that. And so you've done a really exceptional job at branding yourself and creating this brand. Um, talk to me just a little bit about the evolution of your brand identity and the creation of that and how that's morphed over time.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

Yeah, great question. 30 years ago-ish, um, 30 to 32 years ago, uh, we uh were at a Century 21 conference, uh their annual conference, and one of the breakout sessions was on branding yourself. And people would come up with these different, you know, uh taglines, which is what mine was, and I it just came to me a household name. And I thought that's easy enough, and it's easy enough for people to remember. It's not like I, you know, uh I can remember uh Cliff Kluke, who was uh uh agent in the office, he said Cliff will uh cliff will climb mountains for you, and you know, so people were coming up with all these taglines, which were clever and great, and just like when you think about brands today, um in you know, with whether it's insurance, national insurance, that most people have taglines. So that was one that I thought it is relevant to real estate, and it is relevant to me. So interestingly, I I had the tagline, and then uh a number of years later, somebody said to me, you know, you don't have that registered as a trademark. So I said, No, and they're like, well, why don't we? So called a local attorney here in Portland and we registered, state of Maine. And then I had a client that did um uh you know patenting and intellectual properties licensing and was selling her house, and she said, Why don't you have this uh uh licensed nationally and and trademarked nationally? I said, Well, I was told it was going to cost a lot of money. She said, It's $400 too much. She said, Because, you know, if you ever wanted to sell your business practice, that you'd be the only one that would own that. And so I said, So she said, I'm just going to do it. And if you want to pay me, fine. If you don't, I'll just do it because I want to do it for you. So from then on, so it's been over 20 years that I've had that license nationally, and there are people every now and then will get a an email about somebody, a household name, and then a little nasty gram that was written by our attorney said just send this out to them and tell them a cease and desist, they cannot use that. So uh anyway, so every time if one is we we see one, the letter goes out saying you can't use it. However, the the other thing that has worked so well with that, I can't tell you dozens of times a year, I will be out in the public, and so we say, Hey, there's John Hatcher, a household name. Halloween.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

Uh I also we did a big haunted house, part of my branding and marketing on the west end of Portland, and used to, and we still do, give out uh instead of candy, we give out popcorn, microwave popcorn with a label on it, Happy Halloween from your neighborhood realtor, John Hatcher, household name. So then I will see little kids will say, You're a household name. And so it is just amazing how it has resonated. And it's, you know, it's not it's not quirky enough to be like off, you know, what what's wrong with him? What is he thinking? It's just it's it tells my story of what I am a household name.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

I, you know, the other thing I just to recap, like you talked about finding that out, you know, getting to this idea at a national convention. Um, I think you and I both prescribed the idea of plugging into the national conventions of our organization. Um, we stumble into each other almost every year at these events. Um I I I just, you know, I don't want to skip by that, right? Like going to the national event of the organization that you were with created the idea of thinking about this whole trademark and brain, which has probably yield you uh Far too many numerous transactions to even count just from going to an event.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

Absolutely, there's no question, Kevin. Out of the last 40 years, I've probably been to uh 32 national conventions. And the reasons to skip a year now and then, but for the most part committed. Even when spending the money was a struggle, I did it because I knew what I'd get out of it was well worth it. And the other thing is the relationships. Even here in the state of Maine, we have uh almost 6,000 realtors, and uh this year they uh they sold out at the very end 500 agents that went to the um the Maine Association Realtors Conference. To me, uh the networking alone, I received so many referrals from agents from all over the state of Maine as well as the country, because I when I say I I'm there and I meet and greet, I don't just go stay with our little group that I'm with from our office. I'm out there shaking hands, I take you know, dozens and or hundreds of uh business cards that probably a lot go into the trash, but it's it only takes one that doesn't uh to have the referrals. So to me that is so important. And it also, you know, yes, we can look at all the uh National Association of uh Realtors, uh NARs, um, newsletters, but when you're there and whether it's our respective brands that we uh represent, you're getting it firsthand and you are rubbing elbows with people and you're able to ask questions. And right now we're so fortunate in this market when we looking at the statistics this morning, you know, average days on market, 14, average sales price. And on my team meeting, um, you know, my office in Orlando, uh, the average days on market in that county uh is 77 days on the market. So we're reminded, I'm reminded every week when we talk about numbers and days on market, how fortunate we are here in the Northeast, and but also recognizing that there are agents out there that um you know that are struggling and that that their days on market are lengthened. And when you think of 77 days on the market average, that means there's properties six, eight months, twelve months, and then there's always going to be those that sell in two or three days.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

So you when we talked about the convention and and attendance, you mentioned the fact that there were years that you know you were struggling, and I I don't think that we get to 40 years, 30 years in this industry without a struggle. Um you know, you've built a business that has really fed your life by design, and and I want to talk about that a little bit um in a in a moment, but you know, let's talk about some of the struggles, all right. Um, you know, besides, you know, moments like you know, 88 to 92, and besides, you know, 2008 to 2012, what were some of the bigger challenges that you faced over your career? Um and and and and more specifically, what was the the challenge that you faced and how did you overcome it? I love a great rebound story. Um, you know a little bit about my rebound, and there's a story there. Um, I love a great rebound story, but you know, somebody listening to this might right now might be in that moment of struggle. Um, and what can we do to help them?

SPEAKER_02 25:40

So I feel fortunate that I did study business in college. However, that also does not teach you how to run a business, it gives you some baselines. So one of the things is basically I really developed a business plan from day one, and I realized that this was a business. I wasn't just selling uh, you know, uh I wasn't selling a product, a network marketing product, and try to find people to buy things. I was truly dedicated to selling, you know, real estate and knew that I had to have a business plan, which there's a lot of great business planning clinics out there to really focus you on how to run a business.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

So I taught two last week.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

Right? You did, you did. And it's a matter of I I said, okay, if I have you know a dollar coming in, I can't spend two dollars. If I have a dollar coming in, I have to put some away, knowing that this business is 100% commission-based, and that when a I receive a commission, uh I've got a little tidbit on commissions as well, uh, about treating yourself, but but it's so easy to get that commission, and then you pay your bills, and then all of a sudden, at the end of the year, you're like, Oh, I've got to pay taxes. And I have virtually over the years, many, many years ago, um, and it's been probably 15-18 years since I've had to deal with this, but robbing Peter to pay Paul because I think a lot of us don't say every paycheck put 25% away of that check into an account that you can't touch and use it towards taxes. So I went through many years of not doing that, and then all of a sudden I see what would see what I had for tax liability, and again, I scrambled and I scrambled, and there were years, you know, many years ago, that I went on a payment plan because I just did not have the money to pay my taxes. So after doing that for a couple of years, I said, okay, this is the this is if I'm running this as a business, I have to buckle down with this part of it. So I really have been very, very careful. What I've done in the last uh 15 years or so, uh, I had been in LLC, I became an S corporation, and in today's world, what I do is I basically have a salary that I take every month that 100% of my tax 100% of my income goes to taxes. So I don't even see that money. I don't not see a paycheck, I see a pay stub, but I get zero out of it. And then what I do, and this is something that you'd have to talk to your financial planner and your accountant of what best suits you, but then at the end of every month I have a bonus, which is the money that I physically live on. So I'm very careful uh to make sure that taxes are paid because I think I find that so many people, not only in our profession, other professions, one of the biggest stresses people have in life when they are not paid up and they have tax liabilities and liens in this profession, there are a lot of people that do have tax liens. Yeah. Um and um this this person, this uh US um this patent attorney and intellectual properties attorney, as a matter of fact, telling me how to register my name. It was also a huge lesson when we were selling her house for over a million dollars, and she owed over 1.2 and back taxes between state and federal. And I said to somebody at the state, because I didn't talk to her about it specifically, and the person at the state said, Well, when you make over a million dollars a year and don't pay taxes for a few years, it creeps up on you. Yeah, so when she sold her million-dollar house that she had paid $350,000 for, she didn't see a penny of it. Yeah, so it realizing that this whole tax liability is something that we see that people don't pay attention to and it's so important. But I want to uh jump back to something from uh my friend Sue that hired me into the bill business. Um, she said to everybody in the class, at the end of every when you cash your check, treat yourself to something, whether go out to lunch. And there's a broker in in Portland, Maine 40 years ago that when you used to have you know 12, 14 closings a year, she would go to a restaurant that was called the Siemens Club, treat herself to a bowl of lobster chowder. That was her treat. I started putting away $25 every closing, go to the bank, cash my check, put money into taxes, but then I had this little separate account, put $25 away just so that all of a sudden, if I saw something, it would be guilt-free money. Today I do the same thing, it's increased.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

I was gonna say it's probably a little bit more than $25 a minute.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

So at the end of every month, I uh I get a bonus check of $200 per transaction, and that is guilt-free money. I if I want to go and buy a watch for $1,000, I've collected that. I will never put something on the credit card. If I don't have the cash, I don't spend it. But that is my guilt-free money and that extra reward for working as hard as I do.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

I think, you know, the takeaway that I hear from that, you know, for you it was years of tax issues, which again, arguably, you and I both know you're not alone in that. Right. Um I think, you know, the the tenacity to just kind of stick with it and figure out the lessons. And uh, you know, I think that's a um for lack of a better term, I think that's a superpower because, you know, so many times people face, you know, issues or challenges or adversity and they just want to internalize it and quit. And, you know, the reality is that, you know, through the tenacity of sticking with it and learning some lessons, you get to our age and you look back and say, okay, I'm glad I didn't quit. And I learned all of these valuable lessons from looking backwards. And it's hard when you're in your 20s, 30s, or 40s to like, what lesson am I learning from this? And and I think that that instinctive nature for you to just stick through it and and continue through the success of it, but learn the lesson has proved invaluable to you, I would suspect. Because at any given point through there, you could have been like, okay, I'm just gonna go get another job.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Absolutely, Kevin, and had many job offers. Right. Uh a um very good friend that was first in the business uh when I first got into the business, he was offered a job at Central Bean Power in their real estate department and has had a very successful career with uh Central Bean Power with land acquisitions and such. And I had been approached by um people with that, and I just I've always liked the freedom and the responsibility of working for myself. And you know, people think that in our industry a lot of people get into it thinking, well, I can you know work when I want and I can take the time off that I want. And we had a discussion earlier today when you were talking about you know sticking to it that somebody calls you on that you know 90-degree day uh and say tomorrow's gonna be 90 degrees, Wednesday. Uh, want to go to the beach, let's just blow off the day. To me, I am totally on Monday through Friday in the office at 8 and at the gym at 5:30, at the office at 8, and I'm there until the job is done and uh everything's off all the papers off my desk or every task is done, and I try not to take anything home. I feel like that's my sanctuary. Now, last night I was on the phone at 8 o'clock, you know, working on a transaction. Sometimes you have to do that, but I really feel like I'd like to leave all of my work at my office. And I feel, you know, there are a lot of people that work out of their home, and I find that you know people can do that very successfully. I we have countless clients that are have high-paying jobs, work somewhere all over the world where their main office is, and they're very successful at it. However, I also see those that uh I go to their home and then the dog and then the kids and then the this and the that, the distractions. So I find that being in the office, I'm laser focused, so that I am not being able to I I I just am focused to get the job done. I do try to take weekends off, which does not always work. This year it did not work very well. Um, but again, focusing on this and in knowing years ago when I I went, you know, three months without a paycheck. However, knowing that having the belief that the next one will come along, and it wasn't like I was the only one. And I think when you can look around and see that other people are in the same boat as you are, that you're you it it's not like going to punching in, you know, Monday morning and your week at uh Friday at four o'clock, five o'clock, and then you get a paycheck, you've got to put the work in, and it is it's always there's always a lag time in our business of being paid. Going back to you know, sticking with it, there are a lot of people that say, Well, I don't have anything going on today, so I am going to go to the beach, and which is their choice. However, to me, if I was going to the beach, I'm not doing what I'm supposed to do for lead generating and making the calls, knocking on doors, trying to find new business.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

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SPEAKER_01 35:59

Well, and I think that's the embrace of the monotony, right? Like it, you know, the lead generation is fundamentally the basis of our business, and we have to embrace the monotony of lead generation. Um, you know, you have worked diligently to build a life by design that that can you know has spanned it, you know, uh an expansion team, two different states, uh, both Portland, Maine, and Orlando, Florida. Um, you know, but you take three months away every year in Palm Springs. Um as we've talked about, you still work uh when you're in Palm Springs, but you're you you've really you know built this life by design that wouldn't have happened had you quit.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

Right? Like you could you had job offers, and those job offers may have solved the immediate problem, but wouldn't have had you break through to the idea of building this life by design. Um, talk to me a little bit about that transition and just you know, how did you build this uh expansion team level operation where John, to your point, you get to take three months in Palm Springs when you want. Right. Because even working in Palm Springs, you your hub is still in Portland, Maine, you've still got Orlando, Florida, you've got systems and tools, and I I know your team, you've got some amazing people that are there to support you.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

So I'm very fortunate because my team and I've had tremendous supports. I I find that finding the right hires, and I've almost I have uh uh at least an 85% track record of hiring the right people because you know there's a saying, you know, hire slow, fire fast. And uh I've had people that I've courted for six months or more, and then decided it was time to take the plunge and hire them. So having that support to me is so key. And when you're first getting into the business, of course, you are doing it all yourself. And but then, in my opinion, I mean what we have here for support, I see um with agents in the office that don't that don't know anything about real estate, they get licensed, and then finding a company that you really feel you're getting support. And of course, I've been with Keller Williams since I was one of the first eight agents that uh opened the doors here, and I I have seen the support from day one, and I truly believe that you know we have everything anybody would need. There are other companies that are very good as well, uh, but having that support. So when when I first, when I was still with Century 21, I had been to a conference and somebody um said, you know, I've got somebody that's going to help me with the paperwork, and they're going to be an assistant. And I said, Oh, really? Sounds interesting. There was no model for that. There was just no model for that. So then I uh had been I was um uh at a uh I was out and about and I was with a uh appraiser and I said, you know, I'm looking for somebody. Do you know anybody that would be interested in that's licensed but really doesn't like practicing real estate? She said, Oh, my friend Paula. So uh all of a sudden we met and within three or four months got together. She came on board with me, and from then I think she trained me more than I trained her because she's like, take that, you know, let me take that. You don't need to be doing that. You've got you've got to be on the phone calling, you know. You she was taking things away from me because they weren't the most important thing for me to um for lead generating. So I was just very fortunate that I found somebody that was motivated uh and just dedicated and just uh one of the kindest people that uh all my clients we she was just it was like we ended up being like brothers and sisters and that we were just so we we just worked so well together. Um and then she ended up um moving away. And then there's this woman that was also in the office as a real estate agent and deciding that she really wasn't quite uh you know, cut out for it, and her name happened to be Diane Jenkins, who is now on staff here at Calla Williams, and she was with me, and then she ended up going into leadership role within the company. But I was so fortunate that here again, somebody that uh self-motivated and somebody that I did not have to um push to do anything, they pushed me. So then on and on, and currently Melissa's been with me for 12 years, and it's just been remarkable. So then the other thing that you know, knowing, you know, when you do your SWAT strengths, weaknesses, and I I know what my weaknesses are, and my biggest weakness is I'm a terrible manager of people because I do not tell people what they should do. They end up telling me what I should do, and I just have a hard time pe uh keeping people accountable. I'm just I'm terrible at it, and I know it. So that that's under discussion. So um Melissa is good at that, and then um as my team grew and I had buyer agents, and they were coming to me, and I took all the time in the world to help them. And then, you know, looking at the business model, I really needed somebody that could work with each member an hour to a week, holding them accountable. Terrible at it, and also it would be taking away from my time for lead generating and bringing in more business. So um uh uh Andrew Newman came on board who uh they also say never hire a friend. He had been a friend for many years, but I also knew with his um what he had done, his career, and he was a people manager, so he knew he and he first came into the business, he uh he asked if um he could uh he wanted to get into real estate, so I said good, do it on your own. And I'm thinking he'd be great on my team. He ended up coming into the business uh a couple of years uh on his own and then I was marketing and looking for somebody to be a um a listing manager and somebody to go and work with me on the listing side of the business and he came to me and he said, I know I shouldn't be asking you this, but uh as it I'd be foolish if I didn't would you ever consider me for the job? So we ended up um we ended up uh he came on board and after a couple months of negotiating and discussing to make sure it was the right fit, so he came on board. Then uh he ended up saying, you know, I don't I grew up in Maine, I just don't like the winters, I want to move to Florida. He was waiting for an event to happen. Uh basically his mother passing away, he was very dedicated to his family, and he said, You do know when my mother dies, I'm moving to Florida. So after his mother died, within a couple of months he came and he said, you know, what am I going to do? And uh Melissa and I he was sitting with us and you know we're like not stunned, we knew what's going to happen. We said, Well, you can move to Florida, but you can't leave the team. So what am I gonna do? So then we discussed it, and that's how that morphed into that role, and that's also how we ended up having a team in Florida because he we knew he was going to go, and we knew his dedication to me, the team, and his commitment to the business, and and he's somebody that has been in the real estate uh world for most of his career so in one way or the the other. So we just knew that it would be great, and we knew that if anybody could work remotely, uh he could do it. So that's how that all evolved having the team in Florida and also for me and my team. So I am I'm available for anybody on my team uh anytime they want to call me. I I'm in touch with them weekly. However, as far as accountability, Andrew's the one that keeps his thumb on them saying, okay, what are you doing? Because you're not good at it. I'm terrible. I'm terrible. And I know that.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

Um you still invest in real estate? Yes. Do you still own the eight unit? No.

SPEAKER_02 44:29

That I uh I actually ended up trading that for an other property uh early on. So do not have that. But then since then, um have well been purchasing property again for 35 years, have never sold a piece of property that we have 17 properties now. And uh it the the one thing as far as investing, and a lot of people say, you know, what do you own? Well, own some commercial property. Um and you're the big fan of single families, which I totally understand and understand why you subscribe to that for me, because of going, you know, traveling a little bit and not finding the right property manager that's 24-7. So we have invested in condominiums. So we own in one complex in South Poland, we own eight condominiums where um we just know the property management company, we know things are taken care of, and what we have found with uh condominiums that our tenants stay longer. We have we have three tenants that have been with us for over 20 years. And if I were good at what I did um saying how crazy they were to be renting from me for 20 years, they should be buying. But it also works for me having a tenant for 20 years and not turnover. But going back to your also your question about you know Palm Springs and spending uh three months away, and now it's not I'm I'm away eight times a year is the goal for two to three weeks, and it's not out of sight, out of mind. I I'm very structured, my life is very structured, and when we get to Palm Springs every morning, I'm up and you know, on the office here. Melissa's in the office by 8, 8.15. So by 8:30, um, which is 5:30 there, I'm on the phone with Melissa. We have our little huddle in the morning to see what I need to do, what she needs to do, and then I have my marching orders, and then instead of going to the gym there, like I do here, 5.30, I go uh from class basically from 8 to 8:30 to 9.30. I'm back, shower, and then I'm back at it. I'm at my desk and I'm at my desk until a minimum of two o'clock in the afternoon, which is five o'clock here, which is when the phones go and night ring. So I am dedicated all day. And what's really interesting is I have the majority of my clients never know that I've left the left town. And there are some that I'm very good friends with that they know, but other than that, it depends on who they are. For the most part, I don't tell anybody that I'm gone because I'm doing business as usual. The only thing I'm not boots on the ground, I can't go let somebody in a house. I'm not going to go and do a preview of a house, but that's the beauty of having this team. But you don't need to. I don't need to. However, this last trip in October when we were out there, uh, I was like, oh, this is great, and I didn't have anything until I did. I put I put four properties under contract while I was there. I had one, you know, one day that I worked until 5 30, which is 8 30. And you know what, Kevin? Being in the beautiful home, beautiful views, I'm okay with that. Yeah. Because again, I I my work ethic and my is my DNA that I I am okay working. And it's not a matter of, oh, I can't believe I have to work until 5 30. Um, so I'm okay with it. And it also, again, when you say life by design, that my life is designed so that I can work remotely. And when I am uh when I'm done for the day out there, 2 2 30, Monday through Friday for the most part, then I can recreate. And that does feel like vacation. Whereas here, uh, and I have countless friends and so many of us maners that go to Florida that if you are working, it's 5 36, and then all of a sudden you have six to nine or whatever out there. I feel like that two or three, two thirty-three until nine o'clock at night. I have five, six hours that I can feel like I'm on vacation.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

Um, so John, it's been a 40-year career. Uh, somebody listened to this right now. What would be one or two key points that you would give them for advice uh that you've learned over your career?

SPEAKER_02 49:09

You know, Kevin, I I think it is it it's basic. It's taking it seriously, taking it as a job. You know, I see people that um and clients, friends over the years, that it's like, well, I really don't want to do that, but uh I'll do it now until I find something better. And people are are searching for something else to do. And I it's amazing how we even hear people that are you know in front of their boss, if they're in a traditional job, saying, Well, I'm really looking for something else. And I'm thinking, would I want that person and my employee if they're looking for something better? So I think number one, you have to really want to do it, not thinking that it's a quick buck. I mean, a lot of people that got into the business in you know, 2019 that just ramping up, and then all of a sudden it was like with with COVID, it was like you know, the floodgates opened and it was just basically take being an order taker. It was just absolutely insane. We had never seen it before. I hope we never see it again. Uh it was a good ride. However, uh just knowing that that you know this is a career for you and it's what you want to do. I have um you know, I wanted to be uh the next Frank Lide Wright architect. The fundamental part was because I do like architecture. I study architecture um the on the board of trustees at the Victoria Mansion, is which is one of the most iconic houses of its style in the world, and I'm very proud to have been asked to be on that board because it's a very important piece of architecture. People come from all over the world uh to study it, to see it, to tour it. So I have a passion for architecture, and that was the thing. I wanted to design houses, I wanted to build them. That's what I wanted to do. So it was a matter of not I just want to get into sales because I think I can sell something. Uh I got into real estate because I love architecture, I study architecture, and I wanted to sell architecture. So that was really it. So basically being wanting to do this as a career, not a stepping stone, that it is have a passion for it, and a passion for helping people. I've had people that you know, people that never thought they would own um first generation immigrants coming into this country, um, people in their 70s that are first-time home buyers, and just to see the joy of people, so that you you're helping them in one of their biggest investments in most people's lives. I mean, there's no question we I had a discussion on my team meeting this yeah this morning that we see so many people in their 60s, 70s retiring that have never owned real estate that they have fifty thousand dollars to their name. And I've seen this with real estate, you're helping people with a stepping stone to build wealth. It's built wealth for me.

SPEAKER_01 52:23

Well, you were just telling me uh in in our last meeting about a young man that you sold a house to that made, you know, over three hundred thousand dollars in a couple of years, just in the appreciation aspect of it.

SPEAKER_02 52:33

Somebody that uh in 20 uh end of 2020, so uh basically um four years ago purchased a house for uh a little under um five hundred thousand and really did nothing to it, didn't really maintain it either. He could have done a better job maintaining it. Two little kids, busier than too busy to do things that I suggested he do. Anyway, put on the market, so he netted um over three hundred thousand dollars as a net gain, and he also is somebody that I had mentored from when he first got out of college, and he just said, I want to learn about real estate, I want to, you know, invest in real estate, I know what you've done, and I know what you've built, I want to be like you. And I said, You don't want to be like me, number one, number two, I will help you with real estate. So to this point, um, he's now 34, he was uh 24 when I first so in the last 10 years I've he's built um from zero in real estate to now he's bought um six investment built properties of five condominiums in the two family. He knowing that he's busy and you know you and I have this discussion, uh owning condominiums, you basically have a property management company that takes care of everything. You just deal with tenants, and to me, it's a great lifestyle for somebody that doesn't know which under the hammer to pick up and how to orchestrate people and also absentee landlords that are from out of state owning condominiums is such a great way. So he bought the first one, bought the second one, third, fourth, fifth, and then he had an opportunity uh and he said, you know, I know somebody that wants to sell their two family, would you come and look at it? Think it's a good idea, absolutely. Uh his first house he paid $285,000 for. We sold it for $375 within two years. This last one, and then he now stepping stone, he went from an $800,000 house to a $1.9 million house. Uh and and I had he said, John, you've told me ever since he said the other thing I said to him, I said, never buy a new car until you have all your debts paid off. There, you know, it's a depreciating asset. So he ended up um not buying new cars, and then this last year he's uh now making a very mid-six-figure income. And he said to me, He said, I did something that you told me not to do. What I bought a new truck, but I I paid it off in three months. So again, debt the the there's good debt, bad debt, and we all I think in our industry we feel that reasonable real estate debt is always good debt. Um credit card debt, the kiss of death for people, which we see, um, vehicles. Um, one of the things I buy a nice car, but I keep them for 10 years. I'd love to have the new newest, latest, and greatest, but it's also focusing on you know to to you know not spend money on um you know the toys, spend it on growing wealth. But again, focusing on going back to your question, what if if you like real estate, you want to sell it, be focused and consider it a career, a profession.

SPEAKER_01 55:56

Yeah, I think it's an amazing career. It's an amazing profession. Um, you know, I I joke around, I you know, barely graduated Green New Gloucester High School in 1992. Um, you know, I stumbled into real estate and and and at 23 years old, and this profession has provided me with you know the opportunity to, you know, to raise children, private education, you know, support my family, uh, create a residual income investments that I would have never dreamed of. Uh so yeah, a huge advocate for this as a real estate career and a profession. And I just think it's it's implorable upon us at this this uh you know, at our point in our career to start looking at the opportunity of giving back to agents and and helping them. And I think, you know, the conversation around staying focused is important. Uh, not being a secret agent is incredibly important. Uh, you know, you use the term lead generation multiple times in the conversation. Uh, the reality is that will that never goes away.

SPEAKER_02 57:04

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 57:04

Right? Like even if we form a team, so many people that we know form a team because they don't want to work anymore. That's not actually the case. Absolutely. Right? It just allows you to focus on your highest dollar-producing activity, which is lead generation and talking to your people and talking to the database. Um, these are the realities of this career. And when we look back at this as a career or as a profession, you know, when we implement all of these things, we get the opportunity to invest in real estate. We get the opportunity to live a life by design, we get the opportunity to work from away three months out of the year. And that's the opportunity that this is. Absolutely. It's not free, and it's not without effort. It's not easy. And it's not easy, it's simple, but it's not easy, right? And it's not without trials and tribulations, and it's not without years where you are the IRS or you have to learn a painful lesson, or you lose money. Like those are all actual realities. Absolutely, and will continue to be. Correct. And at the end of the day, it's all worth it. Right.

SPEAKER_02 58:06

There's truly a formula, and it's staying focused on the formula. Yeah. And, you know, there's always going to be a shiny object out there. However, it's basically nose to the grindstone, the old saying, and just say, you know, focusing on how the business works and not thinking there's an easier way to do it. The other thing that we all have in our careers after a few years, we have honorary degrees in psychology. Yeah. Because the emotions that we deal with, and the other thing that I find there are a lot of agents, whether new or seasoned, that get so emotional about transactions. And I look at it that I think one of the hardest things is not to lose sleep if something happens. What I find a lot of people don't not, you know, don't call you, say this is going south. You know, let some things ride, but also just being, you know, being there for your clients and making sure they understand everything. Sometimes you have to you don't have to tell them all the details, right? But you have to let them know. I find so many um agents when we're doing transactions, they'll say, Well, my client would never do that. And I say, Well, did you ask them? No, but I just know they won't. So we'll ask them.

SPEAKER_01 59:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:30

Ask them, and they do. So it we we as an industry, I mean, a lot of when I and I say us in the general terms, that I've really learned that that you know, always stay learning-based because just when you think you've seen it all, this is another something that happens that you've never seen.

SPEAKER_01 59:49

Well, you text me yesterday and we were texting back and forth, and I was glad to see that you came into person, and you were like, I said, Well, we've still got to do this in person. And you're like, Yeah, I just didn't want you to panic if you didn't see me in the previous meeting. I'm like, I've come to realize what a crisis is, and that's not a crisis. And and and I think that to that's what some of your point is, is like, you know, we have to remember that you know, uh nobody's dying on the operating table. You know, in our business, like it is not life or death. Now, is it important? 100% absolutely. Are there major decisions? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:21

Absolutely, yeah. No question. So uh yesterday uh what happened was I had a referral to an out-of-state developer that is doing um two two million dollar homes and uh 14 million dollar condominiums, and they said, I'm meeting, I would like to meet you Wednesday morning at 10 o'clock in my office in Acton, Massachusetts. And I said, Is there another opportunity? Because I have a board meeting uh at noontime, and he said, Well, I'll get back to you, and it was a referral from an attorney that I do business with, and I just thought, you know, to get in front of these people, so at the end I was going to, you know, I figured it would not be more than two hours, be able to jump in the car, come back, be here. However, it was a matter of I really did not want to do that. As it turns out, it worked out because he has to reschedule because all the T's weren't crossed on his end and dotted on his end as well. I was dotted. So I just thought, you know, I uh an opportunity for almost $20 million worth of business. And sometimes when it comes to clients, you know, they're like, John, tell me when you can meet with me. I'm free anytime. Yeah, but then there are those that when it's you know corporate and they're like, I can meet you here. This is the time slot, you sort of have to drop things uh and run. And yet, this we've been trying to do, and to me, this was very important that I'd be here for this. And then our previous board meeting um that we had, it was important, but fortunately I could have done that through Zoom. But again, sometimes you have to be pliable, you have to be able to drop things, and you have to get coverage to just jump, you know, drop things and go. The other thing that uh sense of urgency that I see I've been guilty of it and think, oh, that this house came on the market. Why don't we look at it this week under people say that? We're still in a market in the Northeast where sometimes you have to drop things, change things, and just go.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:37

Yeah. No, definitely interesting times. I think it's um there's a huge sense of satisfaction of helping people in this industry that are struggling right now. Absolutely. Um, I think that's one of the um core fundamental, you know, feelings that I really like about this office is just a desire to elevate the marketplace.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:59

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:59

Um, I think that's kind of who we are in our culture, and that's one of the reasons why we launched this podcast uh is to just generally try to help. Um, I think that your career, your stories have have certainly helped shed light on that. I appreciate your time. Thank you. Um and and I really hope that that somebody listening really does, you know, continue to just stay plugged in, you know, go to the events, go to the office. We we talked about that in a previous episode, uh, where you sometimes you just have to get into the office and you just have to show up. And even if you're faking it and you don't want to and and you're struggling, like there's just this this um sense of overcoming when you just hit a routine. Uh so I I hope that everything you know kind of resonates and and people stick to it because it's well worth it.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:53

The other thing from the team standpoint, I've had so many people that over the years have come on my team, and when the first person left my team, I was devastated, and I couldn't believe that they would want to. And just like we have people coming into our company, leaving our company, and so now what I have uh I've helped so many um agents, and I've had so many agents, and I welcome anybody to call me to have a discussion about their career and where they may be heading and struggles that may have. And I've I talked to uh agents from all different agencies and all over the country, so I'm always willing to talk. Now I feel that you know the last three agents that had been on my team for a while, life changed a little bit, and they went off on their own and wanted to start their own team. And instead of me being devastated, I felt that maybe I helped them as a stepping stone to go build their career as I've built mine. They've helped me, and I never forget, think, oh, I can't believe you're leaving me. It's like I'm so grateful for all you've done for me. And you know, out of you know, from abundance as opposed to having feel like I've trained them, I've helped them, and now they're leaving me. And you know, people some all of a sudden they have children, they want to have a baby, and they want to take time and go a different direction, and some want to build their own team, which is great. And and uh the what I feel so great about is we're all friends and we still are communicating. Um, I see a listing of theirs, I'll say congratulations. They see something that I do, they say congratulations. So it's it's not as if we're competitors. The other thing in this industry, which is so amazing, uh I never want to be equated to an attorney because you know how attorneys are, but but you know, I no offense to any attorney. Right, right, right, right. No, however, uh, you know. When you look and see attorneys doing this in court, fighting, yelling at each other, and then they go out and have a beer, I feel that that's how we should be in our industry and how we are. We are all competitors, but instead of saying competitors, I call everybody, no matter what company, colleagues. Because I feel like we should all be working together for the good um of the industry and to help as many people in their lives in the real estate world that they you know choose to be in. So yeah, colleagues not not competitors.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:34

I agree with that. Uh John, how can people find you on social media or your website?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:38

Um uh either way, um my Facebook uh John Hatcher, um Kella Williams uh the Hatcher Group, or uh just Google Google me and you can find me anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:49

A household name.