SPEAKER_00 0:00

You're listening to KW Mean's Beyond the Sale podcast.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

Hey everyone. Uh it's Kevin Fletcher. We're here with uh Leanne Nichols today. Leanne is one of the co-founders and uh founding members of Kellow Williams at Maine. Um Leanne, I really appreciate you taking some time to be with us today.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

Thank you, Kevin. Pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

Um so Leanne and I have known each other for now only a year or two. I'm kidding. 25 years?

SPEAKER_02 0:36

We're practically siblings.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

25 years. And when we decided to launch this podcast, you were certainly on the top of my list of people interested in sitting in the hot seat in the chair and having a conversation with. You know, kind of grew up in the business together, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

In the West and Auburn area.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

In the in the greater LA, if you will. Greater LA. Greater LA market. Um but um you know our our paths certainly have bumped along the road. Um but yeah, I gotta tell you, you just you've done amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Thank you. Um Kevin.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Oh, thank you. Flattery will get you everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

We've always enjoyed, you know, a camaraderie.

SPEAKER_03 1:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

Pre-KW.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Pre-KW.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

And that's important in this business.

SPEAKER_03 1:29

And you were the first person I called when I said, hey, explain this KW thing to me at this coffee shop in Yarmouth. Do you remember that?

SPEAKER_01 1:36

I do, that was fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:38

Um, but but I really want to go back uh if we can dust off the memory banks. Um you know, one of the things that you and I were just chatting about before we jumped on this is that, you know, certainly back 25, 30 years ago, nobody ever raised their hand out of high school and said, hey, I want to get into real estate when I grow up. Um what got you started in in arguably what we both consider to be an amazing profession? What got you started into into real estate to begin with?

SPEAKER_02 2:08

If I if I really dig deep into the memory banks, I would have to say that um I've probably always been a bit of a disruptor from early on in life. You know, I was born into a pretty traditional family setting and family that wanted me to follow a traditional path for women at that time, which was what, secretary, wife, maybe a nurse. Um school teacher. Okay, yeah, maybe a school teacher. And none of that ever seemed very appealing to me. And I was always very drawn. I had these very interesting uncles in my family that were entrepreneurs, they were investors in real estate, and I was always very intrigued by what they were doing. Where to the point where after school I would often just buzz over to the multifamily that my uncle had just bought and help him clean out piles of diapers that were left there, and just very curious and loved talking to these men at that time, and so I was just sort of always very curious and didn't really think too much about necessarily what I was going to do, um, even though I was sort of being encouraged in one direction. Um, and honestly, that direction really kind of blew up on my family when my parents split when I was 10. And I had two younger siblings, and it was kind of like survival time. And um, in that change, um lots of different opportunities presented themselves to me, I would say. Um lots of challenges that were hard and and painful and difficult. Um but within that, sort of the piece that clearly formed within me was um a desire that something like that would never happen to me, and not being plunged into that degree of deprivation or scarcity and just being a single mom with three kids didn't seem very appealing to me. So I kind of felt like okay, well, my mom was a secretary, she did great, um, very grateful to my mom for all she did for us. But I was also just really sort of terrified about that possibility. So she did this really interesting thing, and my siblings and I kind of joke about in the summer she was always looking to get rid of us because we weren't in school. So she involved us in this program, which is a trio program, which is actually currently being cut by the federal government, but um it was a six-week-long program in the summers. It took place at Bowdoin College and it was called Upward Bound, and it was for underprivileged children like ourselves to um be essentially in an academic setting all summer. So for six weeks I went to Bowdoin College, not as a Bowdoin student, but engaged in this curriculum that was really interesting. Um one of them was almost like a um like a political science class, a math class, English class, and a drama class. An art drama teacher just recently passed, which was very sad, but you know, doing Shakespeare in the summer in a hot little room. Um, but I formed some ideas during that that there was a way I could avoid the risk or minimize the risk of what happened in my childhood family happening to me by pursuing bigger dreams than had ever been pursued in my family. No one in my family had gotten a college degree. My mom had an associate's degree, which perfectly poised her to be a secretary.

SPEAKER_04 5:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Um, and so I was like, oh she, you know, okay, kind of interested in all these things. There's like this big, huge world out there, and I was on this amazingly gorgeous college campus with these interesting people, some of them were Bowdoin students, our are counselors, and the professors were just these incredibly interesting people, and so I was like, huh, okay. And so that put me on the college path.

SPEAKER_04 6:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Um, and I did go off to college uh from Lisbon Falls. I went out to Ohio for my first college experience, and at that point, um, I really wanted to continue to pursue playing field hockey. I loved that in high school. That I swear to god, it kept me on a very straight and narrow path in Lisbon Falls where I grew up, which had some interesting extracurricular opportunities, I would say.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

Well, as a person who took advantage of those um not so extracurricular, extracurricular activities in gray, I certainly know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

So yeah, and I I knew that if I did, it wasn't gonna be a very good field hockey player, and I really loved it, and so it really kind of kept me on the straight and narrow, which I'm very grateful for, and just this desire to have a different life for myself. And so went to school in Ohio, played field hockey for a couple seasons, and that wasn't a good fit for me for a school because it turns out I missed the ocean, I missed the mountains, and um probably needed to be on a little bit more even footing. So I came back home, I enrolled in school in the University of Maine system, and um was very happy. And my mom said to me one day, she said, Oh, Debbie Booker, who was one of her very best friends, whom I grew up with, they were in the JCETs together. My mom was very civically oriented and minded before she had to work as much as she did when my dad left. And um Debbie has she works for Mark Stimson Real Estate down in Portland, and they're hiring this videographer person for all their listings because at that time a staff member within the company would go and take pictures of the listings and do all the marketing in-house, and it was very different, it was time marketing-wise, now that I think about it, and and she thinks you ought to apply because I told her you were home from school and blah blah blah, going to school and at in the overcome, and I said, Okay, so I went and I applied, and I met with Mike Lyons and Kim Coit, and didn't get hired for the job, but the I really hit it off with these guys, and they said they really liked me. I was like, Okay, well, whatever, great, see ya, and I just kept on with my thing, I was waiting tables, and then I claim about Hadley's in Williston. No, okay, well then you anyway, that was a scary job, but they called me back a few weeks later, and they said, you know, we're really sorry we didn't hire you for this job, but we have another job. And what it was, it was very interesting because at that time, I guess that was February 1992, and Maxine Galinus, this amazing executive secretary for a group of the brokers at the Baxter Bullet office, Mark Stimson at the time, um, she had just had a horrific car accident and they needed someone to fill in for her, but they also needed someone to help Kim Coyt write the um, I think it's essentially what became the law for buyer agency in the state of Maine. I think he was working with the real estate commission and with other, you know, maybe the Maine Association of Realtors and just doing this really interesting legal work, and he needed someone to help him with that, and so that's what I was hired to do.

SPEAKER_03 9:22

I I mean a lot more, uh you know, you could have done a lot worse starting into real estate than working with Kim Coyt at the Mark Stimson Real Estate. It was really fun, and I mean what a brilliant man, too. And and obviously Mark Stimson built this, as we know, this amazing company here at Maine. So and I attended his funeral on Saturday, 99 years old, and saw I mean, just a I mean, I'm totally aging us when we talk about you know Mark Stimson and what he did, and and I mean Kim Coit still with what he does and has I mean they certainly paved the way for real estate here in Maine.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Icons. Yeah, and and you know, in a man's world, they they weren't really the kind of men that blocked women out. No, and so yeah, I mean I was 19 years old at the time, and um it was really really fun. Real estate brokers were really fun. Yeah, I didn't want to be one of them, but they were really fun, and um I really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_03 10:25

So you started with Mark, you started well with Mark Stimson Network, and then uh wasn't the Mark Simpson Network at the time, it was just Mark Stimson Company and working with Kim. Um where'd you go from there?

SPEAKER_02 10:39

Well, we worked on those projects. Maxine came back and was in full health. Then I kind of rotated throughout most of the offices and would cover for vacations for all the secretaries in the different offices. So I went up to Windham and hung out with Ed Getty and Linda Plino and helped them and all the different offices all around, which was really super fun. I loved that. And then I had uh at the time there were a lot of foreclosures, and Bryce Hamilton managed the portfolio of foreclosure inventory that was held by Mark Simpson. Yep, and so um what you Bryce still does an enormous amount of foreclosure.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

I mean, not that there's been a lot of foreclosures in the last several years, but yeah, he's still plugging away, incredibly so.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

And he's Mark Simpson's son-in-law, yeah. And so I had the opportunity to put my talents to work with him and pursue payment back from the third-party companies that owned these um properties that we had to maintain, you know, keep the power going, have them cleaned out, have them prepared for market. And so I basically took care of all that third-party billing for them, and then basically ultimately worked myself into a full-time position in the accounting department in the accounts payables with Martha Flanders at the time, who's now Martha Summer, who I'm also still good friends with. And um did that. I ultimately worked in administrative capacities at Mark Sincer for two and a half years, and having worked myself into a full-time position, I recognized that I wasn't really pursuing my academic pursuits, not getting my college studies done, and I really still wanted to do that. At that time, I wanted to go to law school and become a lawyer, and had just this huge fire in my belly around that, and so I quit. And at that time, David Banks had just left RE-MAX, and this whole new sort of like energy was stirring in our industry because what had started to happen is people like Nan Sawyer, Jim McFarland, David Banks, Adele Aronson, Susan Shea, Dottie Beau were starting to like the top producers started to realize that they um kind of had their own momentum within themselves for their business expansion and sphere of influence. And these weren't things that were talked about.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

No. I mean, team teams didn't exist.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

No, because it was it was traditional model, it was you know, um the company brand, Mark Simpson brand was was it, or the global banker, or the century 21 the gold jackets, you know, it was very traditional the RA blue, yeah, Century 21 Gold Jackets, yeah, you know, you were you were an agent at the company, company brand, company logo, everything was the company brand logo. Everything was the company, and there was a different economic model as a result of that.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

And in exchange, there wasn't like a lot of um business acumen amongst the ranks of the individual real estate licensees. Um, they were just some of them there were a lot more part-time people, you know, teachers that would do it more in the sum in the summers, um, or you know, I believe it was David Banks at the time, he had a full-time job at one of the large supermarkets in the executive offices, you know. So it wasn't uncommon to have it as a complementary supplemental income. Right.

SPEAKER_03 14:04

And that I mean, that's about when I got into the business, right? Like um, I started ERA and it was the ERA brand. Um, you know, then went to an independent from there. And yeah, that that economic model, the agent ad. Uh it was slightly elevated above the Glengarry Glen Ross bullpen style salespeople. You remember that movie? No. Oh, you'll have to watch that. Glenn of Glengarry Glen Ross is an old movie about real estate salespeople you'll have to watch.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

Oh, I never even heard it. Especially what I know.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

You know, that was kind of the the bullpen style sales manager yelling at you. Like, it was elevated from that.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

That would have been horrible, right?

SPEAKER_03 14:47

It was elevated from that, but it was certainly a company-centric model. Very company if you talk, right? Like, um, and and I think that's what we grew up in. Yeah, but then you started seeing the tides shift a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

Well, and I didn't even really know because I was working administratively, so I hadn't a clue about really much of it. I just knew who the top producers were. I didn't know anything really about what the exact economic model was because I was paying the bills for the company going out, but I didn't necessarily see what was coming in. So I didn't really understand those concepts. Plus, I was going to school, you know.

SPEAKER_03 15:20

Well, and and we're both, I mean, at the time going back, right? I'm totally aging ourselves, right? Like at the time going back, we're both in our mid-20s and we're looking at early 20s. Right?

SPEAKER_05 15:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:28

Um, you know, I I started at 23, and the only thing I ever knew was if I had a closing, I made about a thousand dollars. Yeah, it could have been eight hundred, it could have been 30. Oh no, I did not. I mean, come on now.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

Yeah, I know, right. Well, we why we do it.

SPEAKER_03 15:41

You're speaking gibberish.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:43

But but the only thing I knew is I made about a thousand dollars, which at 23 years old was a lot of money. Huge money. Yeah, huge money.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

And it's still huge money because uh obviously everything is kept up with inflation.

SPEAKER_03 15:54

But uh anyway, it it was certainly a different model back then. And then I think to what your point is, somewhere around you know, the late 90s or and certainly by the early 2000s, the the tides kind of shifted to where, you know, brokers were looking at becoming uh to your point a little bit more entrepreneurial.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

Well, the only option for someone who was entrepreneurial in that model for really what dominated the industry at the time, which was that traditional model real estate company um experience, was to go out on their own and start their own small company in a company.

SPEAKER_04 16:32

Which a lot of people did.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

Which there was a fair amount of that. But that number really over time hasn't changed a lot. It's been the same percentage overall. Um, and and a lot of people do find benefit in economies of scale in large companies, also still. So that's interesting that that really is a pretty consistent theme. But what did happen is the Remax model did really sort of break out of the traditional model and created more of a landlord-tenant type relationship with the agent and recognized the um the entrepreneurial nature and the business acumen of some of the licensees and the brokers who were building names, and the minute they were able to put their own name on that sign was what really kind of like jolted the industry into this new world that it it moved into. And so I had quit my job at that time to focus on my studies, went and got a full-time wage listing job, which I'd done all through high school. Um, because that it was sales. Now I know you know, it was I loved it, and I had a little bit more control over my earning potential being in that type of a business. And so I did that, and then quickly my phone started ringing from some of these entrepreneurs in the industry who knew me because I had been their secretary and helped them out in a lot of different ways and had worked in administrative capacities, was conscientious, showed up, was clean, earnest, honest, hardworking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

What was all the things that we expect?

SPEAKER_02 18:02

I mean, I don't know, it was just what I did, right? And interviewed with a variety of them, went to work with one of them as an admin to help just her business, and that wasn't a great fit. And then Dottie Bo called me, who happened to be related to. Our grandfathers are brothers, yeah, and or were brothers, they're no longer here. Um, and she called me, and my grandma said, Yeah, Dottie Ann. Dottie Ann. And I was like, Who's Dottie Ann? Because we didn't call her Dottie Ann, we called her Dottie Bo.

SPEAKER_04 18:33

Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

So um she called me and she said, you know, really, and she had gone to Remax and was all into this whole new vibe that was happening in our industry. So I was like, okay, you know, and she's like, you know, I think I'd like you to be my assistant. At that time, I think there were two others Brenda Carmichael, who worked for Adele Armson, and um Jackie, Lizard, who worked for David Hanks. And then I came in and started working with Audi. And it was really kind of fun because you know, these brokers would come into the office with these great big piles of paper that didn't have laptops back then. I mean we did, but they didn't use them. The admins used them.

SPEAKER_03 19:14

Well, and the laptops were not the same as laptops now, they were huge.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

Yeah, and they were like, What is that thing? And then they would have these software programs like Agent 2000 that you know, REMAX said, You gotta have this, it's a database.

SPEAKER_04 19:24

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

And they'd be like, I gotta have this. But it would be printed out in a file cabinet in their bottom left hand drawer. Don't touch it, don't do anything with it, but I have it. And so then we brought those things to life. We organized it in such a way that it became more interactive and it started to help them expand their business. You know, I'd take a purse or a day timer and I would take all that stuff and digitize it and digitize the receipts so that come tax time I could print something out for her and she could take it to her account and her husband, and the marriage got better. Because they weren't fighting at tax time, you know, and and just I would see, oh, she met with this person and it was a first interview for a potential listing. She probably needs a market analysis. Let me see what I can do. Put together a market analysis. Here you go. Whoa, she just got two hours of her life back, you know, and just these little things along the way, and it was it was really fun.

SPEAKER_03 20:17

So that's your your your intro, and you you ended with, hey, I met Dottie Bo, um, who is also a co-founder of one of the Well, there was a lot more water to flow into that ridge. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

So I was her admin, and then I finished my studies at University of Southern Maine, and I was loving waiting tables and just working for her and doing whatever, you know, the day came. I didn't sell any houses. I just cleaned up everything and made everything perfect for her. And then she said, okay, she was like, oh, quit my wages and job. She literally didn't open my wages and job. And I was like, okay. Um then we reorganized my economic situation so that I could pay my dolls. And I did, but I did not sell one house, and that was May through the end of the year.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

What year?

SPEAKER_02 21:19

That would have been 1997.

SPEAKER_03 21:24

So we got licenses literally the same time, I think. I think that was April and 97.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

I had my license for two years, but I didn't use it. Other than helping her.

SPEAKER_03 21:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:35

Or something for her or meet her here and do this or whatever, but I didn't sell anything. I didn't write any contracts. Nothing. And so at the end of that, she was like, Training event, which is scripts and dialogues and learning how to actually sell. And I went for a week. I sang scripts, I whispered scripts, I yelled scripts, I karate chopped scripts, we scripted from 7 a.m. till 10 p.m. We weren't allowed to drink coffee. They controlled what we ate. It was a very interesting experience. But it was great. And I came back and I sold 40 houses my first year.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

So the takeaway I hear on that are besides the I wasn't allowed to have coffee, which would fly about 0% with me. Um in early on to sell 40 houses your first year, it sounds to me like you know, the takeaway is you had a great mentor that saw where the gap was and helped you get the education that you needed at that point.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

So it really pushed me out of the nest.

SPEAKER_03 22:56

It was cool. For sure, right? Like, yeah, I mean it there's also that that nudge. I mean, you know, I coach agents all the time, and you know, one of the things that we've heard um, you know, in our in our network is you know you're you you're really a 50 unit producer, but you're only doing 25. But I can see you being a 50 unit producer or you know, a $10 million producer, $20 million producer. And I think I think that's oftentimes when we when we talk to agents in in the business right now that aren't exactly where they want to be, they've got the potential, but they just need some coaching. They just need sometimes it's that push out of the nest, you know, one might argue it's a boot up the butt, right? But but there's that, hey, I need that nudge, but that you know, as coaches and mentors, we see what they're missing and we try to help them. Um so my takeaway for you to sell 40 units in your first year really is hey, you had a really good mentor that saw the gap and helped you get what you needed to accomplish that.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

Oh, yeah, because there was really hardly anything else I didn't know about the industry, other than I mean, I knew all the documents, I was doing it all for her.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

Well, and I think you know, there's there's always this, you know, hey, I know the documents, and um, hey, I know the contract, and and all of that. And that's all definitively stuff that we have to know in this business. But there's also a human capacity to this business. There's the necessity to have conversations and to help people with their times of need, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

Well, help them get what they want.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

Yeah, and and and and you know, sometimes it can be I was coaching uh agent this morning. System set up, website set up, all the systems are set up, and how many calls are you making? Right? Like, okay, it's great that the website's working, but real estate's a contact sport. So I think you know, the takeaway that I hear is it's like the right mentor, the right coach at the right time with the right motivation to help. I mean, 40 houses your first year is an astronomical number.

unknown 25:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

I mean, you should be really proud of that.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

It was cool. I mean, but I mean, let's face it, I was able to pick up the crumbs from her business. You know, so her listings, I could I did open houses back to back.

SPEAKER_04 25:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

Once I had the confidence that that scripting taught me, which really is, yeah, you have to get your license, you have to learn the documents, you have to learn the forms, but you've you've got to have the confidence also to pick up the phone and to actually put yourself in harm's way to actually start doing some belly-to-belly business.

SPEAKER_03 25:33

Well, and and buyer agency had come out not long before that. So the whole idea of representing the buyer in the transaction, I wouldn't say was overly new, but it was newish at that time. Um, but that still exists today. I mean, any agent listening to this more than likely could go to a higher producer in their company and hold an open house for them.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Well, in those 40 transactions, I'm pretty sure we're all buyer sides.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

I'm pretty sure.

SPEAKER_03 26:00

You know, and and but you know, there's probably an agent at the company that a newer agent could could could partner with, even if it's not necessarily on a team approach like you had with Dottie, um, that would allow them the opportunity to hold houses open, circle prospect listings, right? And and I think, you know, that just you know, that opportunity and unwinding how to do this business. Um you know, we talked about this a little bit again before we get started. Sometimes we don't know what we don't know. And there's a right way and a wrong way to, you know, not a wrong way, there's a better way in this business sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

Well, we can get in our own way.

SPEAKER_03 26:38

For sure.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

We can get in our own way, we can get in our head, we can really slow ourselves down by trying to overthink things too much. Am I sending the right postcard? Am I did you know, and it was interesting because I was picking up the crumbs and had definitely had phenomenal mentors. Dottie was clearly in the primary hot seat, but there I was surrounded by the best of the best. Yeah, you know, learning from the Pat Rabbit's of the world and and just anyone I was doing a transaction with or bumping into by virtue of supporting Dottie's business and doing her contract management. And but picking up her crumbs at the same time, I was kind of doing that disruptor thing too for myself by getting into the rotary club in the town that I was living in. I didn't have a family at that time.

SPEAKER_04 27:23

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

I was single and I wanted more in my life. I was a Girl Scout all through high school, you know, and so I needed some of that civic stuff back into my life. My mom was very civically oriented. So I was also building that part of my business out too, and starting to cultivate those relationships, you know, getting the experience and making the money and picking up the crumbs, and then also building that other thing at the same time. So, you know, you have the immediacy of certain needs, and you can accomplish those needs by you know circle prospecting other people's business, and but then you're building another thing at the same time. So you're almost spinning multiple plates.

SPEAKER_03 28:01

Well, and I I I mean, we we coach to that all the time, right? You gotta spin multiple plates in this business. Now, you know, civic-mindedness for sure. You know, here's the interesting fact, right? Open houses worked in 1997, open houses worked in 1998, open houses still work in 2025, and they're still gonna work next year in 2026, right? So, you know, so much about uh, you know, pausing to the basics is still very much um uh relevant.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

Well, the basics never stop. I mean, I take a listing now, I still do an open house.

SPEAKER_03 28:34

Right.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

But the degree to which I might follow up with those buyers, I dare say I might not.

SPEAKER_04 28:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02 28:39

You know, and there's times I'll say to buyers, you know, I love the buyers who say, Oh, you know, they'll call on my listing, they'll say, Well, keep me in mind. And I'll say, No, I'm not gonna do that.

SPEAKER_04 28:48

Right.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

And they'll say, What? What do you mean? Why would I do that? You're not signed with me. Yeah, you're not giving me any loyalty. Why would I give you any loyalty or time? You know, but we do that's been happening. But I think, you know, as buyers agency has progressed, we need to be more courageous in encouraging people to be accountable and to also be clear about what their need is, if they really do truly have a need in real estate.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

Correct. And I mean, buyer agency brings like the fiduciary to the buyer, which is a a whole nother concept about which we won't really go down that rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

One of my favorite words.

SPEAKER_03 29:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

Fiduciary. Well, it's it's one of my favorite words.

SPEAKER_03 29:28

It's an incredible word and often overlooked. Or misunderstood, maybe not overlooked, but certainly misunderstood in the true meaning of the word.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

Well, Gary Keller puts it very simply: functionary versus fiduciary. Right. And the law says you're a fiduciary. You're doing the old card. You know, you're doing it. Yep. And so it's you have to know what that is. If you're signing a representation agreement with someone, you you're a fiduciary.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Yep. Hey, if you're finding value in these conversations and they're resonating with you, be sure to like, follow, and share. Our goal is to provide a roadmap to success through the stories of others, and your support helps us reach those who need these stories the most. And if you know somebody who could use the inspiration, consider sending it their way. Let's go beyond together.

unknown 30:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 30:19

So, you know, you you you you build this good business, you got 40 40 deals in your first year, which again, arguably, I don't care if you were licensed before, but pulling the trigger and being active as a real estate agent and doing 40 deals in your first year is phenomenal. Um, so you work with Dottie for several years.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

We stayed at Remax together for, we were there for nine years and built our business to um at by the time we ended our time at RE-MAX, I was 30 years old and we were doing about 30 million, I believe. Dottie was doing probably about 15 million, she had a much higher average transaction. She was really embedded in the waterfront community. Um, mine was still lower, growing, gaining. I mean, my average transaction initially, that first year of those 40 transactions, I think it was like 50,000 each. Um, and then she had been taking taking some coaching classes, so she really wanted to get into coaching. She was at a point in her life where she wanted to reach a bigger audience and make a bigger difference in more people's lives. I think she liked the mentoring thing.

SPEAKER_03 31:26

Well, she has that heart.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:28

I mean, that's at the core of who she is. That's she's been a mentor of mine since you know for the last eight years for sure.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

Um so she was doing that, and I was sort of not sure that I was in the middle of an identity crisis or not. What am I gonna do? You know, and honestly, you know, I've had several identity crisis. They're good for you. They're good for you. Yeah, I encourage them early and often. Um and so I did what I always did, which was go away for training, and Dottie had taught me to do that as well, because she sent me to San Francisco. And this one, this training event, it was well, I was 30, so that would have been 20 2002, I think. Yeah, 2002. And so Linda Polino, Lori Guerin, and myself, and maybe a few others, maybe Susan Shea, I can't remember. We left from here in Portland and went out to a Howard Rittman seminar in Southern California. And um it was great. It was right after 9-11 it happened, and there was this one day, there was this panel, and I was really looking forward to it because I loved hearing the big big dogs chit-chat and do panels. I love that. And they had the chief economist for NAR, National Association of Realtors, which I always love listening to those guys and talking to those guys. I love that type of um thinking and um discussions about what's happening. Um, I think it's very interesting, and we have to know that stuff for to serve our clients anyway. And the past president of NAR. And that was fairly emotional talking about 9-11 and what had happened and what NAR had done um to support the community around all of that, and what we all rallied around as realtors, which was important. Um, and then um on this panel as well was this guy I'd never heard of, Gary Keller. And he looked a little weird to me. He was dressed in all black, and then all these other guys are in suits, and um, Dave Lenninger. Um, and when I graduated from the University of Southern Maine, I had a Remax balloon on my cap. And now everybody decorates their caps, but nobody did back then. So major nerd move. And I was really excited to hear them talk. And Dave Lenninger talked about um how the balloon was what was driving all of our businesses, and a lot of us there were Remax people because Remax didn't really provide um training or it was it was um a place to hang your shingle. It was very much a landlord-tenant relationship, it was a very clean sort of we'll leave you alone, just do your business, you can promote your name. They provided, you know, certain minimal supports that an agency is required to provide, but it wasn't a lot. Um but it was great, it was a great group of people. This the synergy of the top producers was a very um wonderful experience, very um invigorating and energizing and inspiring um to be in that kind of a think tank setting. It was great. Um and Dave Lindinger started talking about the balloon.

SPEAKER_03 34:39

But now, just for point of clarification, Dave was the CEO of Remax and the founder. Founder.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

A founder of Remax. Yep, okay, and he was talking about I knew that.

SPEAKER_03 34:48

I just wondered for the sake of the audience listening.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

And it was sort of I mean, it's hard to describe the breathtakingness of that moment because all of us that were, I mean, there was like a the a lot of the air went out of the room because that we were in this new independent model coming from the traditional model where it was all about the company brand. And the independent brand really was our opportunity to promote our own names, which is what Dottie Bo's name, Going in Lights, helped us to really build out that brand and to build out a big team, which was the start of that kind of entrepreneurial spirit nature of the business. Yep. Yep. And it was, it was, it felt like a real reversal, it felt like a real rollback um on that philosophy of the empowerment of the licensee, um, and and encouraging the building of that brand. And I was like, whoa, what just happened? And then this little voice starts talking, the southern drawl from on stage. Almost like you didn't know it was on stage, you just heard it, and you're because it's almost an existential moment, and it's like, Dave, with all due respect, I do believe you got that wrong. And I was just like, What is happening here? And and Gary Keller started speaking, and he says, you know, I you know, with all due respect, I would give my eye teeth to be in business with any percentage of the brokers that you're in business with, you're in business with some really tremendous brokers. And I don't think that it is the balloon, I think it's them. And your business is this is successful because of them. It's not the other way around. And anything you can do to pour back into them to garner their success at a higher and higher level is going to make you more successful. And he said, and I think what they want isn't necessarily a balloon or color or a brand, but what they want is things that are going to enrich and empower them. They want more of a say in the business because they have good experience in running their businesses, so they have something to bring back to the brokerage. They want uh the the growth of the business, really, I believe, is directly correlated to their level of professionalism and their success. So they want a share in that. Um, and they want to be invested in, they want to be treated as the incredible entrepreneurs that they are. And so he was just kind of going on and on and on about this world that felt much more resonant to me and what I would love to have had that I recognized I didn't have. And so it was existential. And so I went back home and two weeks later, Dottie says to me, You haven't said a word about Howard Renton. And usually you have multiple things that we can implement right away from those experiences. What's going on? And I just said, I'm moving to Texas. And she was like, Oh, okay. And see, at that time I wasn't having success in finding a significant other here in Maine. And I did want to partner with someone and have a family, and I thought maybe my chances would be better there. And my brother lived there anyway, and Gary Keller was there, and this whatever it is he's doing. And so that's what I told her. And she said, Okay, well, if that's what you want to do, certainly you can do that. And we also could consider looking at that business model and bringing it here if it's something that this marketplace needs. And I said, Great. So we reached out to the regional.

SPEAKER_03 38:30

I just want to pause for a second. You hear this guy speak on stage, and two weeks later you're ready to uproot your entire life and move to Austin, Texas.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 38:43

Because of this Gary guy.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

Yeah. Well, and the guy I didn't know I was gonna meet, potentially. And I love my brother.

SPEAKER_03 38:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

And Austin's a fun city.

SPEAKER_03 38:54

I'm sure it is. Well, no, I've been there a few times, absolutely. But I I just I mean, I want to pause for a second and just talk about that how impactful one seminar could be to a life.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

Yeah, and I mean, you know, when you are the kind of person too that I said the word disruptor, um, and doesn't go necessarily completely with the flow, but can follow models and can recognize decent mentorship and decent leadership, those things can converge.

SPEAKER_03 39:24

Yeah, and I, you know, and again, I just a quick pause on the takeaway. Like, you know, we talk a lot about going to events. We talk, I mean, you and I both have been to National Association of Realtor events, both mid-year national events. Um, we just wrapped up last week the MAR convention here at the main association of realtors. And, you know, I I I always just find it interesting that, you know, any particular event can can either increase your business, change your direction, um, but the one thing that won't change is if you don't go.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Yeah, that is very true.

SPEAKER_03 39:56

Right?

SPEAKER_01 39:57

That's very true.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

And and so, you know, I I just I I didn't know that about the story, so I appreciate you sharing that. Um, now I'll let you get back to the conversation about maybe we don't move to Texas, maybe we go check out this business model.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

And that's a hallmark of a good mentor is they don't say no, you can't, you know, because then you're just gonna go do it anyway, right? Um, and so we got on the phone with the regional directors, Carl Nardone. We went, I actually drove around to England and visited the few market centers that there were at the time, reported back to Dottie. We reached out to KWRI, we went to Texas and um met Moe Anderson and um Dave Janks at the time, rest his soul. Um, and became quite interested. Um, I think it was an FSO training, franchise systems orientation, learned the numbers of the business and and um, you know, kind of kept working away at it, did ultimately did an application, did all the work to put that together. I met my husband here in Maine during that period of time, actually, which is interesting. So I didn't have to go to Texas to meet a man or my partner, my life partner.

SPEAKER_03 41:12

Um, and so I know your husband, he's a he's a great man.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

Yeah, really lucky. Um and we we were ultimately awarded the franchise in January of that following year, so that would have been 2003. And I was the first licensed Keller Williams agent in the state of Maine. And um, yeah, it was an interesting story. Dottie has some color I'm sure she could put onto that page around sort of how that transition went, but it was pretty s pretty scary. It was pretty scary.

SPEAKER_03 41:45

Oh, I'm I'm sure it was terrifying.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

It was very terrifying. She retired, yeah, you know, and became, you know, the the face of KW, and then I quickly got terminated from where I was where we were licensed before. And um yeah, it was very scary. And uh brokerage, you know, kind of like shifted who our core group was going to be coming with us. Um, so that was okay. But at the time, another interesting thing that happened is um Mark Simpson had been bought out by DeWolf.

SPEAKER_03 42:22

I've I lived through that merger. Okay, so I was part of the Mark Stimson Real Estate Network. I can remember the conversation when DeWolf bought them out.

SPEAKER_02 42:30

Yep. So it was DeWolf, and DeWolf was beloved, like Mark Simpson, but on a regional level. Um, and people loved working there. Had good culture, good esprit de corps, good good. Um and then um Colo Banker came in and bought DeWolf and caused massive disruption, like a mushroom cloud, and we were kind of there. And we're that's where we gained tremendous momentum from some talented people we were fortunate enough to get into business with at that time that really catapulted us to succeed at a very high level.

SPEAKER_03 43:12

Well, you I mean, clearly you built a phenomenal business. You built a you know the largest real estate company in the state of Maine.

SPEAKER_02 43:20

Well, and the thing I would say about that is I I am a little sensitive to pronouns. And by that I mean, you know, for Dottie and I, it was always a look at does the marketplace want this? Yeah. We can be the people to do it. Because we we're not risk averse, we're risk takers. Right. But does the marketplace want this? And that's what we were always very sensitively at asking that question and probing that question. Because that's really if that if the answer isn't yes to that question, then no. So if you're always showing up and giving the marketplace and the people what they want, then it's Gonna work. Then it transcends you. Your ego is is able to be put aside, and it's not about your ego, it's just you're showing up, coming from contribution, giving the marketplace, the people, consumers, what they want.

SPEAKER_03 44:14

Well, and don't get me wrong. I mean, I'm I I certainly understand the concept of the core belief system at this company, which is that coming from contribution, um you don't have to have the ego. I'm more than happy to provide it to you. I think that you guys have built this phenomenal organization. And and you know, I think it's okay to pause and be proud of that.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

Well, I mean, but it's it's it's always still um a driver to make this industry better, you know, because in so starting this, it's led to so much more that needed to be realigned, you know, within our MLS, how we work together, within our realtor association, how we work together. There's always so much more to do to make real estate work better for everybody.

SPEAKER_03 45:13

Well, and I, you know, that that that coming from contribution, that belief that the industry, this is a phenomenal industry that provides tremendous opportunities for any person that you know that that chooses to raise their hand and join. Um, you know, we have the Y-4 C2Ts, it's the belief system at Keller Williams. And one of my two favorites is, you know, the E is the equity and opportunities for all, um, and success is results through others. And those are my two favorites of the Y-4 C2Ts. And, you know, the fact of the matter is, is this this industry does provide an opportunity for anybody that is willing to do the effort and do the work. And and at the nature of it, our success as an organization, our success as a company is only correlated to the success of the agents that partner with us.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

Totally. And if we're not all about their success, then we will never be successful. And I would tell you, sometimes the things you need to learn show up for you when you didn't even know you need to learn them.

SPEAKER_04 46:18

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:18

And the Y4 C2Ts, for me, I had to like meditate on that because I really feel like I came out of a shark tank. As exciting and invigorating as my former environment was, it was very cutthroat. And in business, that's one of the options you have to succeed, is to be super cutthroat.

SPEAKER_05 46:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

And I wasn't super happy or fulfilled in that. And the Y4 C2Ts helped me in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_03 46:42

Well, it certainly is a strategy. I mean, uh, you know, Andrea, my my counterpart co-team leader here, you know, she talks about the first company that she joined. It was very everything held was held tight to the vest and a little bit cutthroat, and nobody really talked. And, you know, my first organization was there's a conference room, there's a phone book, and there's a phone.

SPEAKER_02 47:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:04

You know, that's how you do the business. And and and so again, just having a belief system that you know comes from, you know, Austin on down to Portland, Maine, I think it's exceptional.

SPEAKER_02 47:18

Well, and I felt it that day in California.

SPEAKER_03 47:21

Right.

SPEAKER_02 47:22

I felt it from the man in black.

SPEAKER_03 47:24

And who still wears black, by the way?

SPEAKER_02 47:26

Who still wears black, by the way. And I still feel it.

unknown 47:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:28

I still feel it. And I don't talk to the man.

SPEAKER_03 47:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:30

And I don't have to. Because that's the heartbeat of it. And it's a wonderful thing to be a part of and to to know that I can be, you know, sort of a cog in that wheel of bringing that also and and and making that come to life. It's like our contracts. I always say that it lives, you know, and bringing our models, our economic model to life and and allowing that to be a pathway for success for people because you don't have to reinvent the wheel. I mean, we were reinventing the wheel every day, working, you know, when I was an admin, the first one of the first admins for a top-producing agent. And now people don't have to do that. You can follow the models. You don't have to. You can stay in e-mode, entrepreneurial, but we named our company E to P L L C for a reason. Because that's what this is all about for us as partners on this journey in starting this was E to P. Yeah, okay, fine. We don't know the answer. That's normal. So then if E is where we are now and we don't know the answer, then P is where the answer is.

SPEAKER_04 48:36

Right.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

So let's go find the answer. Look at the models. Success leave clues. Other people have done it more successfully. So when you just kind of put the ego away and you dumb yourself down and you say, okay, I'm not gonna be creative and weird and entrepreneurial over here. I'm gonna go get purposeful and I'm gonna just do what someone else did.

SPEAKER_03 48:53

And well, it it and you like to your point, the people have lived before us, and and you know, that's where the training comes in, that's where the coaching comes in, that's where you know, plugging into the systems come in. You know, um, you know, I had this unique perspective early on where if anybody was conversing or speaking in front of the room, I was listening. If there was a sales class offered, I was listening, I was there. I mean, I took Mark Leader before, you know. I don't know if you remember the Mark Leader was a trainer. I don't remember that one. It was it was old-ish style. Okay. Okay. I remember sweat hogs. Sweat hogs, I took Floyd Wickman. Floyd Wickman.

SPEAKER_02 49:35

So Dottie would have um she would let me house sit in her nice house because when you're in college, you don't have a nice house. So she would let me house sit for her when she would go to Florida, and I would take her. I'm such a nerd. I would take her Floyd Wickman tapes, VHS tapes, put them in and just sit and watch them. And then I'd get on the phone and start calling FISBOs or expires. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:55

I did the same thing. I had the audio cassettes. Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm dating myself, right? I had the audio cassettes.

SPEAKER_02 49:59

When the car could take an audio cassette, now we can just listen to podcasts.

SPEAKER_03 50:02

You know, you can listen to podcasts, and or you can listen to the training or the coaching or you know, find a mentor and plug in. And and I think what's really interesting is, you know, in talking about the journey, and and life is a journey, and business is a journey. And to your point, like we can get stuck in patterns and ruts, and for sure. And there there may be a listener in, you know, listening to this right now that's kind of stuck in a pattern of whatever, you know, facing some challenges, which I get. I mean, I've had plenty of challenges in my life, you know, rebuilt different things, you know, and and that's kind of normal.

unknown 50:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:44

Right? Like life just kind of throws you these curveballs. But in the course of business, let's just write, you went from in, you know, an admin, you know, basically a secretary. Like we don't like to use that secretary word anymore, but you were a secretary to 30, you know, to 30 years later, you know, being a founder, founding partner of, and you don't have to have the ego, I'm I'm okay with saying the largest real estate company in the state of Maine that is very agent-centric. Kudos to you. And I love real estate agents. You know, and and I think if if we can, you know, provide any type of uh belief or motivation to somebody out there right now, it's that that might be listening, that's stuck in a pattern or stuck in something, that they can have the opportunity to change their life.

SPEAKER_02 51:34

Well, I mean, it's there's proven science behind how to change your life. And you just, like I said, sometimes you don't know what you need until it shows up for you. So are you showing up for that to present itself to you? Right. You know, and some of my worst days in this business have been, sorry, best days in this business have been days I didn't want to show up.

SPEAKER_04 51:57

Right.

SPEAKER_02 51:58

But I did. Put on the best suit, put on the best outfit, and faked it till you make it.

SPEAKER_04 52:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 52:05

And then you make it, you know, because something shows up for you there that day that you didn't know was gonna show up. That's exactly what you need.

SPEAKER_03 52:13

Or you meet this guy in black on stage.

SPEAKER_02 52:17

Yeah. Or you bump into someone at a coffee shop who gives you three listings. Yeah. Or you get so mad that you didn't get that one listing that you do some extra reaching out to some folks, and then three listings come your way. Right. You know, you what motivates you, what inspires you, and are you gonna flip the switch during that moment, or are you gonna stay mired in that rut?

SPEAKER_03 52:42

One of the reasons, or are you gonna one of the reasons I was so encouraged about starting this podcast is just for that, right? Like here is an opportunity for somebody to plug in. Uh, you know, you know, you could be driving through Scout Heagan, Maine, dealing with challenges about paying your rent or paying your mortgage, and and maybe we give you one little bit of nugget that helps you turn your life around.

unknown 53:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:08

Right? And that becomes that agent-centric model, and to your point, of elevating the industry.

SPEAKER_02 53:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:15

Right?

SPEAKER_02 53:15

Well, I mean, it's it's it's such an entrepreneurial business, and I love that about all of us in this industry. Um, but what I will say is those who do expand their entrepreneurialness and add a few little aspects of purposefulness, it's just gonna be a lot easier for you. And don't bang your head up against the wall and say, well, that worked there, but not here. There are certain systems and models that will work, that will get you there quicker, that will cut out a lot of the hardship that we went through not having those systems and models. You know, my life has changed exponentially. It's made me, I think, capable of being a better parent than I would have been, a better spouse, certainly a better business person, certainly better in the boardrooms when I've had to try to help the industry see things differently. Um, I've just gotten better skills and become a better person as a result of really sticking to models and having my ladder leaning up against this wall that has people that are decent people that are trying to make the world a better place through real estate.

SPEAKER_04 54:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:28

And that's what we do. We're part of our communities. We're involved, we're coaching the little little league teams, we're Girl Scout leaders, we're all of these things.

SPEAKER_03 54:37

And we're selling Girl Scout cookies.

SPEAKER_02 54:39

We're selling Girl Scout cookies, which that might not be the best thing about Girl Scouts, but you know, it's yeah. It's all there.

SPEAKER_03 54:49

Again, I want to thank you for this uh, you know, conversation. I think, you know, from my perspective, several takeaways, if I can. Um, you know, I I think it's really you you've you've been instrumental in the real estate industry in the last 25 years in Maine, 30 years. Goodness gracious.

SPEAKER_01 55:08

Maybe 20.

SPEAKER_03 55:09

Let's call it 20. Um, you've been incredibly instrumental, um, you know, with your your your uh civic give back both in your communities. Uh you've been, you know, so instrumental with the main association of realtors, main listings, greater Portland Border Realtors, um, as well as the work that you've done here at Keller Williams and Maine. Um I just really appreciate the conversation. I think your story is one that I know sometimes it may feel awkward to speak it. And I appreciate your your taking the time to talk. I think you know your story is one that I I hope impacts some lives, right? Like moving from, you know, a secretary, waitress, unsure 19-year-old to what you wanted to do to selling 40 houses in your first year, you know, to the work that you've done on board levels, etc. The the you know, the plug-in with, you know, you know, the Howard Britton course in California, meeting that Gary guy and dressed in black, uh, and bringing Kelly Williams to Maine. You have impacted hundreds and hundreds of brokers' lives um and changed hundreds of brokers' lives, you know, through the work. You should be extremely proud. Um, you have made an impact. And, you know, there are numerous brokers walking the halls at 50 Sewell Street, uh, and still numerous brokers at other companies yet that uh can be changed because of the work that you've done. And I applaud you for that and thank you.

SPEAKER_02 56:56

Oh, thank you, Kevin, and thank you for coming on board and taking the torch and running with it the way you are. I appreciate you immensely.

SPEAKER_03 57:05

That was uh that was an interesting conversation we had over coffee in Yarmouth when I said uh tell me what this KW thing is.

SPEAKER_02 57:12

Well, good for you for having an open mind and seeing what was in front of you that uh presented opportunities that you didn't know. And you know, last little nugget you don't know what you don't know, and we don't know what you don't know. So bring yourself to the trough. Look for a drink of water. We're all here. There's so much. I know it's a lot, it's like a fire hose now, right? Um but get to know some of us, and um, there's there's a lot here, and uh there's a lot for you here. Don't give up and uh turn that uncertainty, insecurity that you have, that we've all had, hardship, challenge, bad diagnosis, whatever it might be, um, that you still need to persevere through, um, turn that into your success.

SPEAKER_03 58:07

Well, it's interesting because you know, you you talk about that, and you know, we don't know what we don't know. I had been in the business for 20 years when I came here, and I, you know, I had been knocked down a few rungs in my life for sure. Um, but I still came here thinking I was, you know, you know, the term I classified, I was I was technically a mega agent. Right? Like we know that term here at KW as a mega agent, and I was technically a mega agent. Um and then I came here. And then I got to see what I didn't know, and then I realized how not a mega agent I was.

SPEAKER_02 58:44

I'm not a mega agent.

SPEAKER_03 58:45

No, it's just I mean, as as much as we, you know, there's always there's always more to learn. There's always a bigger business that we could build if we want. Yeah. And then some of our best agents are living their best lives and in in doing things, and they're okay just doing the deals they do.

SPEAKER_02 59:02

It's cool stuff.

SPEAKER_03 59:03

Yeah. So I appreciate your time. Um, I feel like we've only literally tapped the tip of the iceberg. So um I envision I envision a uh a round two at some point. Um, would love to sit with you and Darty at the same time. I think that would be phenomenal. That'd be fun.

SPEAKER_02 59:22

Frick and frack.

SPEAKER_03 59:23

Frick and frack.

SPEAKER_02 59:24

Oh and peep.

SPEAKER_03 59:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:25

That was, yeah. So those are the good old days. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:28

So thank you very much.