Finding Deals No One Wants: How to Win in a Tough Market

The greens are frozen and the market feels the same—so we trade golf swings for deal flow and get practical about closing when rates climb and sellers hesitate. We start by reframing the “waiting game” and dig into a strategy that still works in tight conditions: find the don’t-wanters. Motivation beats price nostalgia every time, and we share how to tell the difference between a seller testing the water and an owner who truly needs to move.

From there, we unpack why today’s math is different. Higher interest rates squeeze cash flow, cap rates reset, and quick flips fade. That doesn’t mean value disappears; it shifts. We explore how to look where no one looks, uncovering overlooked parcels, expansion angles, and municipal adjacencies that create real upside. There’s a story about buying self-storage, adding the city’s neighboring acre, and exiting to a national operator—a reminder that hidden options can change the outcome.

We also get honest about missed shots and risk. Trigger-shy moments can cost more than calculated risks, and quitting “three feet from gold” happens more often than we admit. The cure is disciplined follow-through. While most agents make the first call, few keep calling weekly, deepen trust, and negotiate through friction. We compare the ferocious competition in New Jersey to slower, off-market dynamics in secondary cities, and map a path for both patient capital seeking an eight cap and hungry brokers building pipeline today.

If a seller won’t sell, step back and protect your time; if a lead shows pain, lean in and solve. That’s the playbook: motivation, focus, and consistency. Subscribe, share with a friend who lives in their CRM, and leave a review with your best off-market tip—we’ll feature our favorites next week.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Okay, without further ado, testing, testing one, two, three. This is the KZF and Kenyon podcast, lucky number episode six. And uh Shasha's Dylan M Tavo six is the six days of the week before the seventh day you rest. So there's gotta be something special there about episode number six. We are recording live from 08701, Lakewood, New Jersey, via the Riverside Podcasting app connecting with our uh expert real estate educator and sales coach and scratch golfer uh from down in sunny and bright Norfolk, Virginia for episode six. Welcome to the show, Pop Lefko. Woo! Let's go you hear me clapping, Pop?

SPEAKER_01 0:53

That's a really nice greeting, Michael. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

I get those sound effects.

Opening Banter And Market Mood

SPEAKER_01 1:00

You know that. Yeah, good. There's no golf. There's no golf. It's it's freezing. It's freezing. Freezing, and and you can't walk on the green when they're frozen because it's bad for the grass. So there's no golf. Even with a coat? Sure, you're I'm sure that that's there's no golf if you can't if you can't hit the ball into the green. So there's no golf. Not today. There's top golf. Never. No. Why is that something you're a scoring enemy? Aren't you trying to aren't you trying aren't you, aren't you, aren't you, aren't you trying to take over Top Golf, Michael?

SPEAKER_00 1:40

I did, I did do some digging based on the leads, and you know, it seems like Top Golf may need to restructure some of their some of their uh debt or some of their locations, right? Isn't that kind of what the new news is with Top Golf?

SPEAKER_01 1:53

I don't know. I don't know. I haven't done the research. Somebody out there might be uh might be looking at a new opportunity. I don't know. Call me if you call me if you make any headway on that.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

There's a lot of people as an agent that say that that a lot of c that will come with uh, you know, I'm interested in this kind of asset. Can you, you know, kind of research it, figure it out, discover it, find an asset, then send it to me. And, you know, I actually don't mind it. I was actually gonna say that that's people ask a lot of agents, but it is kind of interesting to discover new things. And if you're gonna pitch a deal, you probably should know the deal. And if the guy's got capital he wants to disperse, it doesn't, you know, if you can convince him and show him why it's a good deal, that kind of works. But without getting off track, too off track here at the beginning of this podcast, Papa Doo. We have a dark January here where the year has started off on a bang. We have agents at the office making new goals for what they're gonna do for 2026. We have agents kind of blaming the market. There's a little bit of of some uh uh nervousness uh and tightness in the real estate world, I feel, with uh people. Um is there is there any green light at the end of the tunnel? Is there anything that you could give to inspire us to add? Is there ever a deal that actually closes?

Rates, Cycles, And The New Math

Don’t-Wanters And Missed Shots

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Well, first of all, uh to quote Zig Ziggler once again, business is neither good or bad out there. It's good or bad between your own two ears. So if you uh the way I take it is is we can't we're all we're all looking for the next opportunity. Everybody is. Some people have plenty of cash, but no deal to put it in. Uh happily they have plenty of cash so they can wait out the market and see what they can find. Um so there there are the so the light at the end of the tunnel, business is cyclical. Uh and you're really in real estate, you don't you you if it's really going well, you don't know that it's turning down until it's down, and you don't really know it's turning up until it's up. I think that's probably universal in business, but in in real estate specifically, conditions conditions are hard for a lot of reasons. It takes a long time to get a deal done. Uh the the conditions of making a deal excuse me, making a deal, getting it from the beginning to the end has a lot more uh obstacles in it than even, you know, a few years ago. And then it was even more difficult. So uh flipping houses, you know, used to be, I don't I never did. I never flipped the house, but I have friends who did. You know, they acquire it, the print rates were low, they'd fix something up, somebody could go get a mortgage, and and within a very short amount of time, deal was over. There were people who bought something at the right time, and then somebody somebody right behind them wanted it worse than they did, and they make a quick profit. Those days uh weren't too long ago, and they're not happening now because the the metrics are kind of, I guess metrics is a good word. The conditions are skewed, Michael. You know, the the when interest rates were really low, there was an opportunity to buy, pay a higher number because the cash flow worked at low interest rates. Once those rates became higher, which they are even by a few points, and the loans come due, the cash flow is not there to support the number anymore because it there's not enough spread to really make a profit. So uh to be able to come out of a deal with even the price you paid for it is difficult. So who who I think the trick is is who does not want their real estate? It's kind of a friend of mine years and years ago, wow, she used to say, find the don't wanters, and then you got the makings of a deal. If you got somebody who, well, I'll sell it, uh that that is uh, or I can wait it out. That's gonna take more time. So you wanna, you know, you wanna find so I've been I've found that the best the best opportunities have come from uh where I spotted something that nobody wanted, but I thought was a good spot and that had a good out had a good upside. Now those were really where I made the best, the best money in real estate is people finding those. Now I I missed on a few of them. I you know, I didn't listen to myself where uh I mean I'm running through my mind a number of deals that were offered to me that I didn't take that would have worked out. There's also I was reading something really uh recently where there was a guy who was out during the gold rush and he found uh uh some gold and he staked his gold. I guess that's how you did it. You staked out your claim. He went and got his fr family, they went and they went to the gold and they they they missed, they they went down and they got all the gold they could, and then they the there, I guess or like gold, has like a a stream of where it where it goes, and you follow it and you get your you get your your mineral. Um they got to the end of this line and they couldn't find where it went from there. Like, I guess that's all there is. So they stay, they they vacated their claim and they were going back and they told somebody in the town, we quit, we couldn't find anything else. We couldn't, I guess that stream is done. So he they so they vacated their claim. And the guy behind them who they told, you know, we're vacating our claim, said, Well, maybe I'll just go over and see if I could take a look. And only a few feet from there, he found the rest of the claim, the rest of the line that taked him, took him to the goal and made a massive fortune out of that mine. So sometimes we quit before we actually have done the work to see if we're missing something. I've had some experience with that too. I think we all had long enough we're in it. But again, I just thinking about you, Michael, you know, you're learning all of these different experiences along the way. So um it's really good early training. And uh I think it's a good investment for you. Uh I think that, you know, now you're getting the itch to find out where am I going to find that deal that I can close and get paid. And that's also a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

I I really like, I really like that that thing that you said. That gave me a lot of a lot of hope and excitement. Find the the don't want it, don't wanters, don't want it. Because two of my most harder hardest two deals that I've worked the hardest on, focused the most on, were we're close. We're still we're still close and we're and the seller still wants to talk. He's still returning my calls. And the buyer, you know, is still interested. But the little difference is because the seller really doesn't want to sell. That's really what it is. The seller is is kind of cool sitting and and you know, if I get my number, then I'll move it. And his number doesn't make sense to anybody based on the current uh rates. But if if I'm thinking now there's another deal that's much smaller, uh and but the guy really wants to move it. The guy really wants to move it. Like he's losing money on it uh, you know, daily, weekly, uh, monthly. So I'm thinking that that's a really how come you didn't jump into some of those deals that yeah, yeah, continue.

Finding Hidden Upside And Moats

SPEAKER_01 10:15

Well, are you asking me a question or are you getting are you talking about the guy who's losing money every day? Well, I was guessing he's down to lose money every day. If he sells it, he might have to he might end up taking another loss given uh uh given the um um that that the buyer of it isn't gonna buy it to lose money either. You know, probably so I don't know the nature of that, but uh that that's that's uh that just leaped to mind. How come I did I was trigger shy? I was I I that's the bottom line. I didn't uh I I did not want to take the risk. Um in turn and looking back, um they they probably there wasn't probably that big of a risk, but I didn't have the um I didn't have at you know one of those deals was really early in my career. And I you know I was afraid of all the debt, but uh the you know the guy who did who did do it made a blue-kin fortune out of it and should have, and did. I mean, it's uh it's that's somewhat of a hard pill to swallow. I I uh I you know when I had up my you know, I had that Shabbos house near near your mother's, uh, and when we moved out, the the owner of the property told me I'll sell it to you before I put it on the market. And the number he would have sold it to me for was a profit waiting to happen, but I didn't pull the trigger. You know, those are a couple of big examples. There's another one where I was partners with somebody who was uh was a real jerk and a jerk to me. And I made him good money, and I was a good partner of his, a lot of different things that I did. And he died with maybe a hundred million dollars in the bank, but nobody to weep for him because he was very selfish, and all I wanted to do was get away from him. And as soon as I did, he took my idea and sold it to someone. And uh there's uh serious money involved in what I walked away from. I just didn't didn't want to be near the guy anymore because he was such a you know, he was a causar and he uh he didn't need the money. It was all about it was all about winning. And so that, you know, those are the those are the hard ones to swallow, Michael. Those are the hard deals where you know you either you either you know didn't you didn't hang out long enough to to realize all the benefit of your work, um, or um or or you didn't pull the trigger. Those are the those are the hard ones. Now look, I've been successful in a lot of other stuff. So, you know, I I guess meant to be as part of the conversation. I wasn't meant to have them. I wasn't supposed to have them, I was supposed to be tested another way. Uh though that's really the answer to uh where we we miss. Again, I think that the you know, as you scour the market, like I I I said something to you about a particular type of product that possibly could be bought and and negotiated for an acquisition as long as it it made an eight cap and paid a management fee. There are people out there that are excited about taking their cash and making an eight, you know, eight percent return or or being able to finance enough of it to be able to make an eight percent return, let the rents go up over years and then flip it again and be able to uh live off the appreciation. And and that's a very patient way of taking your money. And a lot of people have so much of it that that would be one angle to um diversify and and secure uh uh cash flow and um and and and capital uh preservation, which I think that that's an important code uh there therein is is where that is. I think what happens for me is I I and I think you do this too. Uh you um you're watching what's coming across your desk. You're watching what's coming across your desk and what you can dig out. And what you have found, the most exciting things that you're finding are where either no one's exactly looking yet, or they're looking the other way because there's because they're looking the other way, and you know, it's I mean, I I I don't want to be uh sacrilege on this one, but it might be like the the bush that burns unconsumed, you know? What's that over there that nobody's looking at? And and I think that those are the types of things where success is, is finding something that nobody's seeing, which is sort of like what you did in one of your shows that you sent me about how you're looking at something on the market, but you looked across the street and said, I wonder what's going on over here. Looking where no one's looking, or looking uh so when you walk, when you were looking at a property that was listed or that you were interested in, and you said, I wonder what's going on across the street, that's kind of what it is, looking for someone, something no one's looking at. And the other one is the the uh the don't want, or it's the things where you can see that somebody's trying to get out of it, and it looks like a pretty decent deal. Why is this such a good deal? Like uh I had a I I bought uh a self-storage property about oh, now it's going back to about uh 15 years ago. And when I saw it, I'm going, why is he selling it? So we bought it, and then the city owned an acre next to it, so we expanded it and built a multi-level one, and then we sold the whole thing to Storage Martin. That was a really good payday. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

That's happy to hear that. I'm happy to hear that there's a good story that that that it works out for people sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Well, you again, it it has to do with when you get control of a kind of an idea that either someone doesn't want or no one's looking at. And I think that's where the upside is uh and where where the gold is. And you know, the the today's uh if if somebody's telling you about it, I uh one of our good friends who you know, and I won't name him here, uh, he said, if I see this at Crumb and Cross my email, I probably am not interested because everybody else has seen it. So that guy he he buys in bigger numbers than we're talking about. So there you go. Okay, Michael, we're at uh we're at a uh uh toward the end of a half an hour, and I was wondering if there was anything else you want to go over uh so that we can uh manage the rest of the day.

Competition In NJ Vs Other Markets

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Well, right, right. What do we got here? We we I I I also wanted to add to what you were saying before, that it seems in the busy market up here in New Jersey um it kind of functions differently than markets in Tallahassee or Little Rock, Arkansas, uh or Richmond, Virginia, whatever. Let's say well uh uh it's places of those of those alike. Um that here the in those situations there seems to be a little bit less competition or or the market is not as quick or demanding. Uh off-market opportunities are interesting, but uh probably more interesting because they're unexplored there, as opposed to here in New Jersey or in Lakewood. If there's I mean, it's been sifted through and sifted through and sifted through, and even the markets that spill over, I'll find a property and then say, well, if this block is gonna be exciting now, then let's go three to four blocks over and see if if if that one has been, you know, explored yet. And then I'll go into uh my New Jersey property records and I'll figure out that Abraham Ginsburg already made that move and already acquired it. And uh Rabbi Bloomstein acquired the next piece, and Jews and different smart business people and competition here, it's ferocious. So you gotta go not three to four uh rows out, but but the block after that, five or six rows out. There is a space where you can still foresee it, and to foresee is to rule. Um, but I think what I discovered is a lot of people make that initial connection and a lot of agents will will sit on something and and and and discover it like everyone else. Everyone's after it. It's come across the disc. But I found that sometimes people don't follow through. A lot of times everyone won't reach out when a property hits the market. Everyone will deal with it when a seller wants it. But then they won't, they won't actually stay on it and call the call the seller once a week and meet up with him and then follow through and then connect and then build it and then negotiate. They all just made that initial following, and that's what you're supposed to do.

Follow-Through Beats First Touch

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Sounds like a golf swing, Michael. You know, you can't take a six-iron out of the fairway bunker under the lip. You have to you have to take uh the right club and swing through it. It's uh the follow through is huge. You're you're you are so on target, you have to stick with it. Um I love it. I love it. Um I do think you're right. But you know, a lot of here in Virginia, some of The people that you know, uh, that are your grandfather's uh uh and grandmother's friends, maybe even a generation ahead of them, back in oh the you know, the 40s and 50s here, they would find big tracts of land that were five to seven years out. They're young men. And they and and they just bought it and held it, paid the taxes and and moved on. And back then, I guess taxes were manageable or they had other ways of of managing the taxes, but that's what they did. So you you you have uh you have you you have a couple of different angles to deal with. You have one where you're gonna you're gonna work into uh uh what's gonna be years down the road, but you also have to make a living today. So and and it may be a good idea to find a way to get yourself a piece of the deals that you put together for years down the road so that when they show up, you can uh you can benefit from them. But that's uh that's for another class and and and not for today. Uh yeah, everything moves very quickly there. And I don't really I don't really know uh how it is that, okay, I'll make the deal if blank, let's go, let's close. Uh I don't see that happening. Maybe uh maybe the guys who who operate in that way, uh some of them are are trying to figure out some of their solutions right now. Uh, you know, apartments being uh that they paid a certain amount based on a cap rate on a low interest rate, and those rates are coming, those loans are coming due and the rates are going up. Uh they may be focusing on solving those issues rather than acquiring something new and raising funds to continue to buy new, new, new real estate. So you you have a blank slate, and uh it may not be uh it may, you know, for all the discussion that you're making about uh, you know, this guy bought it, he's got it done, he's ahead of the game, he's winning, whatever. There, there you're you're you're running into that some places, but it's not happening everywhere. You told me a story about the guy who who had a whole uh housing complex and had some street uh numbers that were off and and and other issues where the development wasn't thought through completely and now he's trying to lick his wounds to get out of it, and the there's a whole mess around it. I don't know that you're a you're you're a uh you're you're a cleaner in that way to go in and try to figure out how to uh repair something because in development it takes a long time to get there. But you you're you you're not far off when you're looking at these things. Uh there's there's something that that there's something that is not uh right as it seems. And uh and and so I would go back to the fundamentals. Where's nobody looking? Where is it somebody that doesn't want it? And I would leave it at one other thing. If your seller doesn't want to sell and he just wants to let you spin your wheels, uh maybe you gotta take a step back from that deal, talk to your buyer and say, let's just let it wait for another month. See if it's there, if it's not there, you still have your money. We'll find something else. I think that maybe that's the way to go because you only have so much time in the day. And if you're dealing with you're dealing with somebody who really doesn't want a deal but is willing to sp spin your wheels, there's only so much time in the day. Go play with your babies. You know what I mean? I like that. All right, well, we have now we have now exceeded a half an hour.

Time Triage And Letting Go

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Is there anything else that we can do today? Oh, there's no, we got a lot to do. Let's get to work. It's a fun conversation. Happy cold call Wednesday, where we call it warm calls here at the uh Kessiv and Kenya podcast. Uh, I'm still nowhere close to the office, still sitting in traffic, but just kept me entertained for at least the first half of the journey. And till death do us part, Dad. Be well, be happy, live to 120, and let's keep up the hard work and be careful out there, everybody.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

And smash and smash the like, smash the like button, right, Michael?

SPEAKER_00 25:36

That's it. Smash that subscribe button, smash that like button, smash that donate button, smash it again, and let's get there.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Alrighty. Have a good day. Talk to you soon. Bye.